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[begin rant]
I am so tired of specs right now because the more you know the more you sink in to the mud-hole. Give me something that I can "touch", "see" & "feel" as better.
Eg.
My current 2 of 3 phones:
1. iphone 3g has 412Mhz processor.
2. Pure has 528Mhz processor
3. iphone 3g has 2 Megapixel camera
4. Pure has 5 Megapixel camera
But does it run faster or take better pictures? NO
For picture quality comparison of the 3g vs pure, See here
Note: my 3rd phone is the iphone 3GS.
So F*k the specs.
[end of rant]
Hei, easy tiger
Why do you rant about Pure vs iPhone here? Take it somewhere else ...j/k.
You are right, at the end, it is not the hardware spec, but "user experience".
That is (user experience) what Microsoft currently is trying to bring with their new product, WP7S.
You know, it is a "new" product. It does not even exist yet (purchaseable).
Still a lot of questions unanswered (which you will have some more clues after MIX10).
So, take it easy
Btw, about "that actually works" ... that's really depend on the user, the person who use the device.
Some users want to have full access to the device, OS, hardware, hack this, hack that, fully-super-duper-multitasking, bunch of sensors.
Some users just want to use the phone as it is ... enough with web browser, play youtube, facebook, twitter and email.
Some users just want to use the phone ... you know, for calling someone else
Like my wife, she is using Touch Dual. Why? Because she hates touch phone! Yupe, she hates iPhone, and all "latest" Windows Mobile devices.
She likes to use the phone for ... calling me and her friends, playing Solitaire (that's all) and occasionally using the TomTom 6 for navigation.
My other friend bought HTC Touch Diamond 2 and she does not have any clue. She "asked" why I have to re-charge the battery every afternoon?
I looked into her phone and I saw bunch of apps running in the background: Contact, Fring, ActiveSync, SMS ...
I told her, you must close those! She again asked "Why? Cant they close them self automatically?"
I said "Sometimes, no" ... and I could not continue. I told her husband to put custom ROM ... bla bla (of course they cant do it!).
For my wife, the HTC Touch Dual "does works", big time.
For my friend, the HTC Touch Diamond 2 "does not work" (They are now thinking to switch to iPhone).
Although HTC Touch Dual is way less spec wise!
Since I had a Touch HD and done lots of comparison shots to the iPhone 3G, I am sure the Pure's camera is actually quite a bit better.
The Pure is certainly not faster, though, and definitely less fluid. The MHz count of the Pure's processor is misleading, as it is really quite slow. Plus, Windows Mobile doesn't have nice animations and fluid physics - it has ugly screen redrawing (though it's actually not slower than iPhone OS, but a lot less fluid).
Anyway,
specs do matter. The problem is, you never get to know all the specs. The MHz and Mpixel numbers simply aren't ebough to say whether a processor is fast or a camera chip is good.
There are lots of other factors involved. But they won't tell you the "performace per clock" numbers or the "light sensitivity" and size of the camera sensor.
So, it's not that specs don't matter, it's just that you don't get to know the numbers that actually do matter. What can you do? Well, I know it's hard, but you actually have to inform yourself as much as you can, so that reading spec sheets will give you the knowledge you need before buying a device.
And you have to try for yourself. And I know it's hard, often you don't get the possibility to try a handset without buying it, and reviews usually don't give enough information, especially if you care about "small features" that usually don't get talked about in reviews.
So, keep cool
Specs can be misleading, but only because regular people don't look behind the raw numbers and have no clue about what really counts. But that doesn't mean phone makers should take away the spec sheets... some users do know what really counts, and spec sheets help them a lot to make their desicion.
Actually, they're helpful more often than not, e.g. I know Snapdragon, Cortex and ARMv7 mean "faaaast". Regular people may not know that, but it won't hurt them to read "Snapdragon" on the spec sheet either. Because in the end, they'll always have to try the phones for themselves (or at least try to get enough info from reviews).
How do you think companies can give you something to "touch", "see" & "feel"? Free try&buy devices? Not going to happen. Spec sheets give at least some hints, since there's no better alternative. And if you do your homework, they will be quite helpful
Calm down... nothing to rant about here
Thanks for the warm note my friend.....
I am a spec guy myself, but I feel as if I was cheated/scammed this time, partly because I am not a mobile device person, and definitely was not aware of this crazy MSM and ARM differences. Now I know....ha ha
Now as far as the camera goes, I know quite a bit as I am in it for a few years now, enough to say that megapixels are just the tip of the iceberg. Higher megapixel within the same sensor family is better, but then there are chips that provide better pictures at the same or less megapixels. i.e. CMOS vs. CCD . On top of that, there is the lens and the processing engine to add on to it.
The camera software in the Pure is not very good. I will tell you that. It takes quite some time for it to find the right white balance under room lighted conditions. The iphone is pretty good/better at that.
The camera software in the Pure is not very good. I will tell you that.
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I know. It's quite bad, actually. That's what I hated about my Touch HD. But nevertheless, my HD took much better pictures than the iPhone 3G (in most cases, at least). I'm sure that's also the case with the Pure.
When it comes to cellphone cameras, however, spec sheets are mostly useless.
They never tell you about anything other than the Mpixel number - which of course means nothing (though I wouldn't want to have less than 5).
The camera is very important to me. Reviews are mostly useless, because they never make direct comparisons under the same conditions. I end up buying several phones, comparing the cameras, and then selling them again... crazy, but that's all I can do
The HD2's camera is actually the first smartphone camera I would be satisfied with - if I could make the flash not overexpose everything that's less than 3m away
seed_al said:
I know. It's quite bad, actually. That's what I hated about my Touch HD. But nevertheless, my HD took much better pictures than the iPhone 3G (in most cases, at least). I'm sure that's also the case with the Pure.
When it comes to cellphone cameras, however, spec sheets are mostly useless.
They never tell you about anything other than the Mpixel number - which of course means nothing (though I wouldn't want to have less than 5).
The camera is very important to me. Reviews are mostly useless, because they never make direct comparisons under the same conditions. I end up buying several phones, comparing the cameras, and then selling them again... crazy, but that's all I can do
The HD2's camera is actually the first smartphone camera I would be satisfied with - if I could make the flash not overexpose everything that's less than 3m away
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Click to collapse
Flash overexpose - now if only they would provide TTL flash intensity control. Goodness....
2M vs 5M
My LG-VU actually took much better pictures than the iphone 3G and Pure. The only problem was that you would not realize that until you transferred it to your PC, courtesy of the crappy resistive plasticky screen.
I still have it. Maybe I will use it as a camera only
Cameras... bleh. All smartphone cameras are awful.
But I do have to agree here: Even though one phone may have a snapdragon processor, and the iPhone may have a 412mhz processor, the iPhone navigates so much faster.
Of course, I know the reason for this, but it certainly does make me hope that Microsoft sorts this out with WP7S.
(Though, never, EVER, would I buy anything that supports Apple...)
EDIT: Also, I've had lots of people say that my Touch Pro's screen was "less sensitive/accurate than iPod/iPhone's". Even though I've tried to explain it, the average user just doesn't get it.
Even though one phone may have a snapdragon processor, and the iPhone may have a 412mhz processor, the iPhone navigates so much faster.
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No way
It's not going to beat a Snapdragon phone.
The iPhone 3G isn't that fast, actually. It's barely faster than the QCOM MSM phones, but of course much more smooth/fluid (and that despite it has 100MHz less).
Smartphone cameras? Yes, they're not good. But I'm not going to buy a dumbphone because of the camera.
Jaxbot said:
Even though one phone may have a snapdragon processor, and the iPhone may have a 412mhz processor, the iPhone navigates so much faster.
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You won't say that once you gets your hands on a HD2 (with or without custom rom I might add). It's probably the 1st (and last) HTC WinMo 6.5 phone with enough grunt to power thru practically anything. The only reason why an iPhone might feel faster is because it presents you with a flashy animation before actually loading up the app. WM phones don't do this.
Jaxbot said:
EDIT: Also, I've had lots of people say that my Touch Pro's screen was "less sensitive/accurate than iPod/iPhone's"
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Used to have a Touch HD and preferred resistive touchscreens. Several months with a HD2 changed my mind I do think resistive touchscreens are actually more accurate though, I can touch-type way faster on my HD than I can on the HD2. But that could just be a Wm 6.5 limitation.
Ok. here's the deal. CCD sensors are more noisy and most HTC camera probably use CCD sensor given the noise in low light pictures.
after researching a bit, I found out that the iphone uses CMOS sensors which actually produce a smoother, less noisy picture. No wonder.....my eyes can see the difference.
fyi...Canon uses CMOS sensors across it's line of decent to high end digital cameras, a big reason why it leads the market.
update: i also just found out that the HD2 uses a CMOS sensor too. no wonder u hd2 owners love the picture quality of the hd2.
seed_al said:
No way
It's not going to beat a Snapdragon phone.
The iPhone 3G isn't that fast, actually. It's barely faster than the QCOM MSM phones, but of course much more smooth/fluid (and that despite it has 100MHz less).
Smartphone cameras? Yes, they're not good. But I'm not going to buy a dumbphone because of the camera.
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Click to collapse
I'm not referring to the speed, I'm referring to the navigatability (and how "fluid" it is).
Of course, I always laugh when I see the animations on someone's iPhone, because it really does make it seem like the app loads faster than it does (Hint to Microsoft?).
chiks19018 said:
Ok. here's the deal. CCD sensors are more noisy and most HTC camera probably use CCD sensor given the noise in low light pictures.
after researching a bit, I found out that the iphone uses CMOS sensors which actually produce a smoother, less noisy picture. No wonder.....my eyes can see the difference.
fyi...Canon uses CMOS sensors across it's line of decent to high end digital cameras, a big reason why it leads the market.
update: i also just found out that the HD2 uses a CMOS sensor too. no wonder u hd2 owners love the picture quality of the hd2.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Then check again.
CCD was always superior to CMOS and probably will be for a long time(that is why they use it in science).
Almost all mobile phones(there are only few that use CCD - mostly in japan) today use CMOS sensors because they're cheaper.
Basically mobile phones are mostly using 1/3.2" sensors if not smaller and at that size CCD would offer better picture quality and low light sensitivity but would be bigger so the phone would be bigger that is why ODM's are using CMOS sensors.
More expensive CMOS sensors are used in DSLR's but show me just one P&S camera that uses CMOS.
So both HTC(all HTC's) and iphone use CMOS sensors but probably from different manufacturers hence the difference in quality and noise level.
So once and for all. For mobile use CCD would be better but it is bigger and not as cheap as CMOS sensor. In high end DSLR market it is not so clear that is why both CCD and CMOS sensors are used.
I am back to fk the specs....
It appears that at this time, there is no clear defining line between CCD and CMOS. both are very competitive, both offering it's own advantages, strengths and weaknesses.
CMOS is the future
Canon making CMOS for compact cameras
Turns out that Canon surprised everyone with its amazing CMOS
technology. Imagine that surprise that its CMOS sensor has a much
better noise performance than any known CCDs. Even Phil Askey said
the image was "silky smooth" - some wondered, "it looks too smooth,
some details must have been removed" but a closer examination found
no evidence.
Link
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chiks19018 said:
I am back to fk the specs....
Click to expand...
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haha
chiks19018 said:
I am back to fk the specs....
It appears that at this time, there is no clear defining line between CCD and CMOS. both are very competitive, both offering it's own advantages, strengths and weaknesses.
CMOS is the future
Canon making CMOS for compact cameras
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Click to collapse
I never said CMOS was worse for DSLR. On the contrary I admitted that today both CMOS and CCD fair well in DSLR's. Considering the size of the sensor low light sensitivity seems to be equal between the two.
What I meant is that for small sizes CCD is best(almost all point&shoot cameras) and mobile phones where unfortunately manufacturers decide to use cheaper CMOS sensors - remember that there are better CMOS used in high end cameras and cheap ones used in mobile phones and PC cameras. Unfortunately we get cheap sensors in our mobile phones.
I think he reason why they are making the spec's high is because they want everything to touch and feel better. So why f*** the specs? I'm pretty sure that's going to be important. You put a 538mhz proc in a WP7 it's probably not going to want to move.
Wishmaster89 said:
I never said CMOS was worse for DSLR. On the contrary I admitted that today both CMOS and CCD fair well in DSLR's. Considering the size of the sensor low light sensitivity seems to be equal between the two.
What I meant is that for small sizes CCD is best(almost all point&shoot cameras) and mobile phones where unfortunately manufacturers decide to use cheaper CMOS sensors - remember that there are better CMOS used in high end cameras and cheap ones used in mobile phones and PC cameras. Unfortunately we get cheap sensors in our mobile phones.
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chill man, I am not arguing with you, nor I am putting you down. In fact I liked your post. made me do some more research!
The specs that the phone companies provide are like a girl saying she wears DD bra size.
When you take it off you realize that it was padded on a B size
OMG I just solved the flash exposure issue with a new driver from HTC!!
Wow that feels good! What a great camera phone I have now!!
Sorry, guys, for being OT, but I'm so happy^^
*LOL* ..... Thanks for that! I got a good laugh
chiks19018 said:
The specs that the phone companies provide are like a girl saying she wears DD bra size.
When you take it off you realize that it was padded on a B size
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Competition for Nokia is starting, which is great for us
http://www.engadget.com/2011/06/30/htc-eternity-leaked-1-5ghz-4-7-inch-display-front-facing-came/
Peew971 said:
Competition for Nokia is starting, which is great for us
http://www.engadget.com/2011/06/30/htc-eternity-leaked-1-5ghz-4-7-inch-display-front-facing-came/
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Yeah, just stumbled accross it on twitter. Pretty much reminds me of my next handset.
4.7 and 1.5 Single core. Fake. Or 4.3 with overclocked 1ghz, real.
Happy with the CPU and front facing camera, not so happy with the screen size. That's huuuge
Have to ask, what so special about this? Big screen, which could be too big and no AMOLED, slight bump in processor speed, typical crappy htc camera and of course inadequate storage. Heck even Dell now has 32GB DVP's. Since FFC's will likely come on most Mango handsets what has this got over a Nokia with a proven record in phone cameras and better build quality? Plus this looks like just another htc android handset so design wise again is behind Nokia. Add in Samsung and their Super Amoled II screens and this is not that impressive to me.
cmon htc......a screen that big needs an amoled display not SLCD. a sumsung device similar to the infuse 4g running wp7 will easily top this. in my opinion.
my next wp7 device must have and amoled screen and i was hoping it will come from htc, might just go Samsung or nokia depending on what tmobile picks up
efjay said:
Have to ask, what so special about this? Big screen, which could be too big and no AMOLED, slight bump in processor speed, typical crappy htc camera and of course inadequate storage. Heck even Dell now has 32GB DVP's. Since FFC's will likely come on most Mango handsets what has this got over a Nokia with a proven record in phone cameras and better build quality? Plus this looks like just another htc android handset so design wise again is behind Nokia. Add in Samsung and their Super Amoled II screens and this is not that impressive to me.
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dude u read my mind.....plus freaking one!
efjay said:
slight bump in processor speed
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A slight bump? It's a 50% bump. A 1.5 GHz single will probably outperform a 1 GHz dual core in most smartphone applications for the time being. This is the best CPU we can possibly get from this round of devices, I'm glad to see someone using it.
efjay said:
Have to ask, what so special about this? Big screen, which could be too big and no AMOLED, slight bump in processor speed, typical crappy htc camera and of course inadequate storage. Heck even Dell now has 32GB DVP's. Since FFC's will likely come on most Mango handsets what has this got over a Nokia with a proven record in phone cameras and better build quality? Plus this looks like just another htc android handset so design wise again is behind Nokia. Add in Samsung and their Super Amoled II screens and this is not that impressive to me.
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I don't really care for this particular phone (4.7" is mad anyway) but I like the idea that OEMs are prepared to make better phones this time around. If anything this gets me excited for Samsung's next phones.
Sent from my Samsung Omnia 7 using XDA Windows Phone 7 App
Can't say I would want this size of phone, though it does sound nice. 4.3" is as big as I would care to go.
what a monster of phone
compared to the desire hd its again bigger:
http://versus.io/en/htc-eternity-vs-htc-desire-hd
MartyLK said:
Can't say I would want this size of phone, though it does sound nice. 4.3" is as big as I would care to go.
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Have you ever played with the Infuse? It feels somehow smaller than the Inspire yet the screen is massive and sooo beautiful.
ryude said:
Have you ever played with the Infuse? It feels somehow smaller than the Inspire yet the screen is massive and sooo beautiful.
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I've got a DVP (4" screen). The Infuse (4.5") makes my DVP look like Shaq to Vern Troyer. I can only imagine what a 4.7" screen would be like.
Anyway, that's overly large, for me anyway. I'll be looking at the next Samsung or more than likely Nokia, as Sammy is doin' wonky things with firmware.
But, I'll be keeping an eye out for the Acers and Fujitsus. All depends on what hits T-mobile. Either way, good to see that the OEMs are stepping up their hardware game, even if the designs aren't all that original.
Way to big, my max is 4"
Seriously, don't complain about 4.7". I have a 5" Dell Streak and it's perfectly pocketable and the browsing and gameplay experience is second to none.
Having said that, as much as Mango is a much more desirable release of WP7, I'd much prefer this device with Sense and Android Honeycomb.
It will be better if HTC trim outside screen area so they can have 4.7" screen with smaller size than the current design
That's a freaking huge phone. Curious: when you say the dell streak is pocketable, do you mean in normal jeans pockets ?
A few of my colleagues have dell streaks, and no they are not pocketable. They use a belt clip to hold it to their waist.
if the entire back panel was a battery, it would rock. too bad it won't be, and it will suck, like all phones' batteries do now.
someday they'll sacrifice being the thinnest for longevity. someday.
PG2G said:
A slight bump? It's a 50% bump. A 1.5 GHz single will probably outperform a 1 GHz dual core in most smartphone applications for the time being. This is the best CPU we can possibly get from this round of devices, I'm glad to see someone using it.
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Complete bull****.
Had a chance to stop into the local Verizon store and view the latest gadget candy. I played with the LG Revolution, the Droid X2, the Pre 2 and the Trophy. I glanced at a lot of the other stuff as well and came out feeling the the Trophy is the nicest phone Verizon has to offer. It's very elegant and stylish and worked splendidly. HTC really knows how to make phones, that's all there is to it.
Install mango on it...it will impress you
The wife just got the trophy and it is a really nice phone. I prefer larger screens though.
Sent from my HD7 running Mango using XDA Windows Phone 7 App
I love wp7 but I think HTC phones will never be able to do it justice.
yea its a nice phone but they need to bring out a more feature filled phone with a front camera but until wp7 rolls out the mango update the trophy is one of the best wp7 phones
I'm using the Trophy myself. It's nice, but the camera isn't so great and the auto-brightness doesn't work very well. When taking a picture, it snaps the picture a split second after pressing the button. This is a pain in the ass when trying to take pictures of my kid who can't stand still, or anything moving.
I'm not impressed with HTC's lineup at all... I never was. Their battery covers are almost always slightly crooked (like the top edge where you open it might stick up, allowing larger pieces of lint, sand, or other particles to get lodged in there), their cameras aren't as good as Samsung's, and their auto-brightness sensors have usually been wonky (at least the ones I've used).
But, they're the only manufacturer with a WP7 device on Verizon so I had to get it. Don't get me wrong, I don't think it's a piece of crap or anything, but I definitely don't think it's the "best" Verizon has to offer. But that's my opinion.
ahorriblemess said:
I'm using the Trophy myself. It's nice, but the camera isn't so great and the auto-brightness doesn't work very well. When taking a picture, it snaps the picture a split second after pressing the button. This is a pain in the ass when trying to take pictures of my kid who can't stand still, or anything moving.
I'm not impressed with HTC's lineup at all... I never was. Their battery covers are almost always slightly crooked (like the top edge where you open it might stick up, allowing larger pieces of lint, sand, or other particles to get lodged in there), their cameras aren't as good as Samsung's, and their auto-brightness sensors have usually been wonky (at least the ones I've used).
But, they're the only manufacturer with a WP7 device on Verizon so I had to get it. Don't get me wrong, I don't think it's a piece of crap or anything, but I definitely don't think it's the "best" Verizon has to offer. But that's my opinion.
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Are you aware the camera button on all WP7 phones is dual level or dual mode? Half press focuses and full press snaps the picture.
Of course. But there is still a delay. It's not instantaneous.
Edit: I had a Samsung Focus several months ago before switching carriers. I don't remember the camera on that phone having the delay. That's why it's relevant to this post.
ahorriblemess said:
I'm using the Trophy myself. It's nice, but the camera isn't so great and the auto-brightness doesn't work very well. When taking a picture, it snaps the picture a split second after pressing the button. This is a pain in the ass when trying to take pictures of my kid who can't stand still, or anything moving.
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Don't care what HTC phone you have, the cameras have never been great, yea, you could get pretty good but, never great.
HTC has never been known for to be a camera company, some of the upcomming phones SHOULD be starting to use Carl Zeiss lenses and things should be getting bettter in this department. Look up any HTC phone, this is a major compaint for it with most people.
If you got a HTC phone for it's camera, you will be dispointed.
Over all the Tropy is a nice phone, slim, fast and feature filled. No major bells and whistles here but, a good over all phone.
And the only WP7 device that Verizon wireless in the US has....
DavidinCT said:
Don't care what HTC phone you have, the cameras have never been great, yea, you could get pretty good but, never great.
HTC has never been known for to be a camera company, some of the upcomming phones SHOULD be starting to use Carl Zeiss lenses and things should be getting bettter in this department. Look up any HTC phone, this is a major compaint for it with most people.
If you got a HTC phone for it's camera, you will be dispointed.
Over all the Tropy is a nice phone, slim, fast and feature filled. No major bells and whistles here but, a good over all phone.
And the only WP7 device that Verizon wireless in the US has....
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Yeah that's pretty much what I'm saying.
And I didn't want to wait for another WP7 device on Verizon. I like the soft, matte finish on it, but that's it. I wish the Trophy had the same style front glass as the HD7 (how it sort of sits on top of the plastic) but without the size. I think the size of the Trophy is perfect. If that new Nokia phone (the Sea Ray?) comes out as a CDMA device, I'm totally buying it. I don't care if I have to pay full retail, I'll save up for it. It's so nice.
ahorriblemess said:
Yeah that's pretty much what I'm saying.
And I didn't want to wait for another WP7 device on Verizon. I like the soft, matte finish on it, but that's it. I wish the Trophy had the same style front glass as the HD7 (how it sort of sits on top of the plastic) but without the size. I think the size of the Trophy is perfect. If that new Nokia phone (the Sea Ray?) comes out as a CDMA device, I'm totally buying it. I don't care if I have to pay full retail, I'll save up for it. It's so nice.
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It's a shame they can't...or won't...produce a phone like the ones in the early mock-ups that have been floating around for a long while. Those are just purely gorgeous.
If you want a good camera phone, look at the Nokia N8 on google.
N8 camera shots
MartyLK said:
...early mock-ups
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never seen them
ryude said:
If you want a good camera phone, look at the Nokia N8 on google.
N8 camera shots
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N9/Sea Ray is coming out and it has a 12mp Carl Zeiss. That's what we mentioned earlier. I have no interest in another OS right now. I'm all about Windows Phone 7.
N9 has Meego, "Sea Ray" is the code name for the hardware. They're releasing it with WP7 but it's only GSM.
ahorriblemess said:
N9/Sea Ray is coming out and it has a 12mp Carl Zeiss. That's what we mentioned earlier. I have no interest in another OS right now. I'm all about Windows Phone 7.
N9 has Meego, "Sea Ray" is the code name for the hardware. They're releasing it with WP7 but it's only GSM.
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Click to collapse
Unfortunately, they've already compared the camera on the N9 to the N8 and it's no where near as good. I hope they use the same optics as the N8 for the sea ray.
I have been very happy with the trophy except for a few things.
I'm coming from what was basically an indestructable phone and that is the original moto droid. I never had screen protection or a case and there were no scratches. Gorrila glass is a must have. The 2nd day I had the trophy I ended up with a scratch on the screen.
Battery life. This is fixable with the 1800 mah battery you can find, but why ship the phone with such a weak battery.
storage space. This is an issue with most of the wp7 offerings. Yes it can be fixed but it's not meant to be fixed. I have a 32gb zune and guess what, I want all of that music plus apps on my phone.
3.8 is a decent size, although I really want a 4.3 inch.
Mango is a great upgrade even in beta, I've been keeping a list of things I hope they include or at least improve upon.
ahorriblemess said:
never seen them
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These are the ones I meant...
Oh yeah, I remember those. You don't think the N9 looks nicer? It's so much smoother and symmetrical.
ahorriblemess said:
Oh yeah, I remember those. You don't think the N9 looks nicer? It's so much smoother and symmetrical.
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The N9, N8 both look great, but I prefer the aesthetics of a phone like these mock-ups. They resemble the Samsung Focus a little bit in size and style and I love the styling of the Focus. However, I think I'd prefer these much more so.
MartyLK said:
The N9, N8 both look great, but I prefer the aesthetics of a phone like these mock-ups. They resemble the Samsung Focus a little bit in size and style and I love the styling of the Focus. However, I think I'd prefer these much more so.
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it looks like a focus made out of metal instead of plastic
List of complaints that need to be addressed because people keep making threads on them:
1. The Camera is 5 MP.
Okay, anybody who things that megapixels = quality probably knows very little about photography. More megapixels in many cases introduces more noise, especially considering how small the camera is.
If you want to print photos at a letter sized at 300 ppi, invest in a REAL camera. A low end DSLR will blow any phone out of the water; the image sensor is several times as large.
http://www.unlikelymoose.com/more/cameras/megapixel_converter.html
Until we see this phone next to a Galaxy S2 and an iPhone 4S taking pictures in a controlled environment, we can't say that this camera sucks.
2. The pentile display
It is currently not possible to make a 1280x720 or 1280x800 RBG display at the size we want and if they made it bigger, it would be very expensive.
http://pentileblog.com/uncategorized/pentile-for-720-hd-oled-smartphones/
The Galaxy Note has reached a point where some people say that they cannot see the subpixels, so this phone should not be a problem.
The only real valid criticism that the screen has a "blue" tint. For those that are unfamiliar with OLED technology, blue subpixels have the shortest lifespan. This was a deliberate decision by Samsung to maximize screen life.
Overall, side by side comparisons indicate that this is a step forward from the GS2.
3. The SOC/GPU
I am also disappointed in the PowerVR SGX540, but given the circumstances, it is the best SOC they could have chosen. The only alternative would have been the Exynos 4210 (the 4212 uses a new 32nm process not available and is only "sampling" right now) or the Qualcomm Scorpion, with its Adreno 220, which is inferior in terms of both CPU and GPU.
Of particular concern is the new generation of more demanding games and the fact that this GPU needs to drive a 1280x720 screen.
We need to see some real benchmarks as ICS may have had some under the hood optimizations and how it stacks up to the Tegra 3, which will come out in a couple of months. The Tegra 2's GPU was by no means better than the lower clocked (btw, did I mention that this GPU is higher clocked than the one on the GS1?), SGX540 on the first generation of Galaxy S phones.
The OMAP SOC on board is native 1.5 GHz, so I'm sure that you will be able to overclock it back to native clockspeed. I fully anticipate 2 GHz+ mods to come out afterwards.
4. It's too big
Your opinion. I like big phones.
5. Plastic
Samsung's phones actually last pretty well. I have seen HTC's which get praised for their build break. A friend of mine owns a repair shop for phones. Apparently 90% of his smartphone displays that he repairs are iPhones, which also get praised. He is delighted that the new iPhone 4S shares the same design as its predecessor.
6. No SD Card
This is one I am also disappointed at. It's a trend in the Nexus phones right now. Google seems to be encouraging cloud usage. I dislike this one as well, because data is expensive and ICS specifically has data management tools reflecting this.
Somewhat mitigating this is that there are 32 GB versions available and that internal storage is faster than a class 10 SD card.
7. DAC and sound quality?
Unknown and I eagerly await the answer.
Will I buy this phone?
Actually, I am undecided. I want to see reviews first and hold it. I am also eagerly waiting to see what the DAC is. Come H2 2012, A15 parts and perhaps an RGB version of the 720p display are probable. I will however buy it if I can get a sweet deal.
Couldn't agree more on peeps complaining about the 5mp camera!! I have a 3.2mp Sony digital camera that is probably 10 years old. It isn't even a DSLR. But it takes far superior pictures than my 8mp camera on my Charge. Why? In a word, optics !! My old camera has a Zeiss lens on it. It is folly IMO to expect high quality pictures from a phone camera !! If you want to be a photographer, buy a camera !!
All valid points, was a good write up. I especially agree with the point about waiting to see it in the flesh.
I'm a zoom in shooter where does that leave me coming from a 4mp to a 8mp and back down to a 5mp
The issue I take up with the size is that it feels like there's a lot of blank and empty black space in not only the bezel (especially the bottom) but also with ICS. In general, the size and look of the device is both a love and hate. Sometimes I think it's gorgeous, and other times I think it's hideous. I think this is one of those "time will tell" things.
Counter arguement:
My Opinion > Your Opinion.
Your move.
JCopernicus said:
Counter arguement:
My Opinion > Your Opinion.
Your move.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Counter counter agruement: Who gives a s$&" until we all actually hold the damn thing in our hands and each of us can make up our own minds. Until then this is just bull$&@".
bmstrong said:
Counter counter agruement: Who gives a s$&" until we all actually hold the damn thing in our hands and each of us can make up our own minds. Until then this is just bull$&@".
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Then why did you bother posting in the first place?
Enough.
The very purpose of this thread was to minimize this kind of trolling.
For those who think the phone is big.. here are some pics to help you decide...
http://asia.cnet.com/large-screen-smartphones-pocket-test-photos-62211932.htm
justabrake said:
I'm a zoom in shooter where does that leave me coming from a 4mp to a 8mp and back down to a 5mp
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Stand closer?
Sent from my SCH-I500 using XDA App
Bawb3 said:
Stand closer?
Use a program? I posted one earlier.
Sent from my SCH-I500 using XDA App
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Sent from my HTC Desire using XDA App
Nebucatnetzer said:
Sent from my HTC Desire using XDA App
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
i tried programs on my iphones and believe it or not i had to remove them because of issues and i don't want touch camera programs anymore
justabrake said:
i tried programs on my iphones and believe it or not i had to remove them because of issues and i don't want touch camera programs anymore
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Not camera apps. A program to enlarge a picture there are some for professional use. You know there's still something called a PC .
Sent from my HTC Desire using XDA App
ruthlesset said:
For those who think the phone is big.. here are some pics to help you decide...
http://asia.cnet.com/large-screen-smartphones-pocket-test-photos-62211932.htm
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Stuff fits easily in empty pants, amazing.
-_-
I had the opportunity to play with one over this past weekend. In regards to size, if you have held an SGSII in your hand it is more or less the same size. Slightly taller, but not really enough that one could use the "won't fit in my pocket" argument. The screen looks fantastic and ICS is very smooth, even on the beta build it was running.
That being said, would I upgrade my SGSII for it? Still not sure. I will have to see if I get the fever when it is released and order one.
Lootes said:
I had the opportunity to play with one over this past weekend. In regards to size, if you have held an SGSII in your hand it is more or less the same size. Slightly taller, but not really enough that one could use the "won't fit in my pocket" argument. The screen looks fantastic and ICS is very smooth, even on the beta build it was running.
That being said, would I upgrade my SGSII for it? Still not sure. I will have to see if I get the fever when it is released and order one.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Most of these "it won't fit my pocket" arguments are troll posts from people who have no intention of buying the phone.
I have played for a bit with the Galaxy Note. It was big, but it did fit in my jeans with my keys inside.
sauron0101 said:
5. Plastic
Samsung's phones actually last pretty well. I have seen HTC's which get praised for their build break. A friend of mine owns a repair shop for phones. Apparently 90% of his smartphone displays that he repairs are iPhones, which also get praised. He is delighted that the new iPhone 4S shares the same design as its predecessor.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I'll be happy with the durability if its as good as the Galaxy S II. With curved design of the Nexus, it'll less likely to get screen damaged on drops http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=elKxgsrJFhw
Lootes said:
I had the opportunity to play with one over this past weekend. In regards to size, if you have held an SGSII in your hand it is more or less the same size. Slightly taller, but not really enough that one could use the "won't fit in my pocket" argument. The screen looks fantastic and ICS is very smooth, even on the beta build it was running.
That being said, would I upgrade my SGSII for it? Still not sure. I will have to see if I get the fever when it is released and order one.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Any difference in the feel between the two SGS2 -Nexus
So I've had a dozen different android phones but none without an SD card. How does this work? Does it have a partition to mimic the sd card? Im going to get this phone regardless, but want to know if I can transfer all my files over from the sd card on my current phone.
Sent from my R800x using XDA App
After trying 8 different Windows Phone 7/7.5 devices in the last year and a half, I have decided to compile my opinions on each and rank them from best to worst.
Keep in mind that these are just my opinions on devices I've owned based on the experiences I've had with each...yours may be different.
1. Samsung Focus S
Pros
Best screen available for a WP device
Excellent speaker and call quality
Thin, light, fast
Super easy to interop unlock and debrand
Has all available hardware that WP7 currently supports (apart from LTE)
Very fast HSPA+ connection (Faster than Lumia 900 and Titan's HSPA+)
Cons
Battery doesn't last as long as other WP7 devices
Headphones audio quality and volume isn't as good as some other devices
2. HTC Titan
Pros
Largest and good quality screen
Very good camera exclusive features and sound enhancements
Excellent build and speaker
Great battery life
Cons
Can't be dev/interop unlocked
Mediocre call quality/reception
Unlocked AT&T devices can't enable internet sharing on other carriers
3. Samsung Focus
Pros
Good OLED screen (pentile though)
Very easy to unlock and enable internet sharing for any carrier
Has custom ROMs
Great speaker and call quality
micro SD card support
Cons
Build quality is poor and feels cheap
Gen 1 device that is missing some features newer WP7.5 devices have
4. LG Optimus 7
Pros
Very solid and sturdy build
Very stable. Least bugs experienced.
Easy to dev unlock
Internet sharing update possible for most if device is flashed to a different region
Cons
Lackluster screen and speaker
Gen 1 device that is missing some features newer WP7.5 devices have
5. Nokia Lumia 710
Pros
Solid build
Exclusive Nokia apps make a difference
Call quality and reception are great
Custom ROM may be possible
Supports Tmobile AWS frequency and AT&T 4G
Cons
Questionable battery life
Missing some hardware features
Internet sharing not yet available
6. Nokia Lumia 900
Pros
Gorgeous hardware and design
Gorgeous screen
Exclusive Nokia apps make a difference
Call quality and reception are great
LTE support
Unique design
Cons
Buggy with software issues even after the patch update
Camera is terrible
Can't be dev/interop unlocked
7. LG Quantum
Pros
Has a hardware keyboard
Easy to dev unlock
Cons
Screen and speaker are poor
Unappealing design and hardware
Heavy
Gen 1 device that is missing some features newer WP7.5 devices have
8. HTC HD7
Pros
Custom ROMs
Easily unlockable
Cons
Poor screen
Poor build quality
Poor battery life
Gen 1 device that is missing some features newer WP7.5 devices have
If you are in the market for a Windows Phone 7.5 device and want the best device available, I would recommend the Samsung Focus S based on my experiences with multiple devices and hardware vendors.
I am aware that there are some interesting devices I've not yet used such as Dell Venue Pro, Titan II...and even the Fujitsu 32GB waterproof device, which may be a solid purchase as well.
Thanks for your opinion but it's very subjective... For example, what do you mean by (for Samsung Focus) "Build quality is poor and feels cheap"? I don't think so. Also, that sentence "Gen 1 device that is missing some features newer WP7.5 devices have"... Why don't you wrote about "low screen resolution" like some noobs here?
Another one: for Lumia 900 you wrote "Camera is terrible" what is completely not true. Lumia's 900 camera isn't "terrible" just regular (comparing with the other WP7 devices). If you expect something really amazing (like Nokia 808 PureView camera) - it's your personal problem)
P.S. I'm tried 6 of listed handsets and can't agree with you in many cases...
sensboston said:
Thanks for your opinion but it's very subjective... For example, what do you mean by (for Samsung Focus) "Build quality is poor and feels cheap"? I don't think so. Also, that sentence "Gen 1 device that is missing some features newer WP7.5 devices have"... Why don't you wrote about "low screen resolution" like some noobs here?
Another one: for Lumia 900 you wrote "Camera is terrible" what is completely not true. Lumia's 900 camera isn't "terrible" just regular (comparing with the other WP7 devices). If you expect something really amazing (like Nokia 808 PureView camera) - it's your personal problem)
P.S. I'm tried 6 of listed handsets and can't agree with you in many cases...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
If you look up most reviews on the Focus, they mention that Samsung focus feels plastic-like and cheap. For example -http://www.engadget.com/2010/10/22/samsung-focus-review/
And this was when this phone came out in 2010. By 2012 standards its build is downright poor. Feels like a toy and very loose compared to something solid like Nokia 900 or LG Optimus 7.
Gen1 device/missing features stands for missing front facing camera, HSPA+ and other features found on gen 2 devices hardware wise that gen 1 don't have. It is something one should consider in my opinion.
And compared to other WP devices, I found Lumia 900 as a point and shoot to be terrible. It can take decent pictures only when conditions are ideal. Low light shots, or closed quarters close up shots are worst I've seen on any smartphone for at least 3 years. I can post some test shots I've taken with the Lumia if you want to see what I mean...
Keep in mind I am not trying to argue with you.
I respect everyone's opinions, and am just defending my statements above...
I agree on the subjectivity. Battery life is very important to me so the Focus S would never be at the top of my list. But that is me.
1. Battery
2. Build quality
3. Screen quality(not size)
4. Camera
disolitude said:
If you look up most reviews on the Focus, they mention that Samsung focus feels plastic-like and cheap.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I don't need to look up the reviews 'cause I own Focus; also, I'm working for company specialized in mobile platforms development so I do have an experience in handsets comparison! Focus isn't cheap; and build quality is OK. Try to define your "cheap" first. Right now I do have 5 handsets in front of me, on my desk: Focus, HTC Incredible, HTC Surround, Galaxy S2, and iPhone 3gs. Can't call any of these handsets "cheap" but Incredible has a "cheapest" look... Focus and Galaxy S2 are sharing the top place for me.
P.S. Today I'll try Lumia 900 camera by myself (brand new handset is waiting for me home ), you don't need to post your pictures (better I'll post mine)
nicksti said:
I agree on the subjectivity. Battery life is very important to me so the Focus S would never be at the top of my list. But that is me.
1. Battery
2. Build quality
3. Screen quality(not size)
4. Camera
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
While I agree that there are different needs, I don't think there is a category rule you can use to determine the best device.
For me it's more of a combination of things and how it all comes together as an experience.
I think Nokia Lumia 900 would be my favorite device if it didn't have the software bugs it did. (Even after the update). It could meet all of your requirements, but with bugs its not a great experience...
Getting SMS notifications when they arrive and not having to check if your data is working every 30 minutes kinda overshadows the great battery, screen quality and build quality imo.
sensboston said:
I don't need to look up the reviews 'cause I own Focus; also, I'm working for company specialized in mobile platforms development so I do have an experience in handsets comparison! Focus isn't cheap; and build quality is OK. Try to define your "cheap" first. Right now I do have 5 handsets in front of me, on my desk: Focus, HTC Incredible, HTC Surround, Galaxy S2, and iPhone 3gs. Can't call any of these handsets "cheap" but Incredible has a "cheapest" look... Focus and Galaxy S2 are sharing the top place for me.
P.S. Today I'll try Lumia 900 camera by myself (brand new handset is waiting for me home ), you don't need to post your pictures (better I'll post mine)
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
The focus does feel cheap. I have one and it just feels like plastic, which picks up scuffs and scratches like crazy. I'm betting he means "cheap" as in the materials used feel low quality and I agree.
red12355 said:
The focus does feel cheap. I have one and it just feels like plastic, which picks up scuffs and scratches like crazy. I'm betting he means "cheap" as in the materials used feel low quality and I agree.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
This is correct. Materials used and the way its put together makes it feel cheep to me.
red12355 said:
The focus does feel cheap. I have one and it just feels like plastic, which picks up scuffs and scratches like crazy. I'm betting he means "cheap" as in the materials used feel low quality and I agree.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I've put silicon case and screen protector on my Focus at the very first week; and phone is in the perfect (like a brand new) shape now. Could recommend you to do the same for all your "looks expensive" handsets
P.S. However, I definitely should stop writing in "General" forum - people here listen to themselves only...
sensboston said:
I've put silicon case and screen protector on my Focus at the very first week; and phone is in the perfect (like a brand new) shape now. Could recommend you to do the same for all your "looks expensive" handsets
P.S. However, I definitely should stop writing in "General" forum - people here listen to themselves only...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Some people may not actually want to cover up the design aesthetic of their phones. Sure, a silicon case will protect it, but it they may derive little pleasure from knowing that it's save vs. looking nice.
I prefer the look and feel of my Cyan Lumia 800 OUT of the included case. Yes, the case it nice, AND it's much safer to have the case on; but that comes at the cost of me enjoying its aesthetic less.
It's a gamble/tradeoff either way.
anseio, agree with you but it's definitely not a point to say "that phone is CHEAP". You know, I may give my brand new Lumia 900 to my two years old daughter playing in the sandbox. Guess how the great "expensive looking" Nokia will looks after half an hour? Worse than "the cheap"? I think so. And it's exactly my point.
Samsung Focus is a great handset; absolute champion in WP7 sales last year and phone definitely not "cheap".
anseio said:
Some people may not actually want to cover up the design aesthetic of their phones. Sure, a silicon case will protect it, but it they may derive little pleasure from knowing that it's save vs. looking nice.
I prefer the look and feel of my Cyan Lumia 800 OUT of the included case. Yes, the case it nice, AND it's much safer to have the case on; but that comes at the cost of me enjoying its aesthetic less.
It's a gamble/tradeoff either way.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
It should be a punishable crime to put the Lumia 800 (or 900) in a case.
red12355 said:
The focus does feel cheap. I have one and it just feels like plastic, which picks up scuffs and scratches like crazy. I'm betting he means "cheap" as in the materials used feel low quality and I agree.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
There is cheap and there is inexpensive. The Focus, which I too have owned, feels cheap. There is build quality and quality of build. The Focus seems to be put together very well but the materials used makes the overall feel.... seem cheap. I have an Omnia 7, which for all intents and purposes, is the same device. However it feels much more substantial. The same can be said about the DVP. With the gorilla glass and some metal, it feels like a solid piece of equipment. Spot on with the Quantum though.
sensboston said:
Samsung Focus is a great handset; absolute champion in WP7 sales last year and phone definitely not "cheap".
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I agree that the Focus is great. Hence why Focus is my favorite gen 1 device, despite the plastic feeling, hollow design...
fatclue said:
it feels like a solid piece of equipment
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Hmm, that the point! Someone wants a "solid piece of equipment", I prefer light elegant design with the brilliant screen But... One more time - you can't call phone "cheap" in this case.
Focus S is my device but I run with two batteries
I thought the drain was just me, so I picked up an extra battery. I think mine mostly is because of microcell when I'm not at work my phone last all day when at work 6~ hrs before I give it some attention.
You should try the Omnia7, I'm still rocking it and loving it
I'm going to bypass getting a new phone anytime soon and wait for the Apollo releases.
pLUSpISTOL said:
You should try the Omnia7, I'm still rocking it and loving it
I'm going to bypass getting a new phone anytime soon and wait for the Apollo releases.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Sadly none of the carriers in North America have this phone. It did look like a very solid choice when it came out and I thought about importing it... Its essentially a samsung focus with better build quality so it should be one of the best WP devices around.
1st Focus= cheap? no way, maybe you haven't seen cheap, plastic high end phones...
Focus is the engine of the WP train...Maybe it squeaks a bit, but surely CAN take a lot of abuse and never show any signs of that, unlike the metal body of an OMNIA7. Have you seen how a supercar's body shatters upon impact? I bet that feels cheap too... Focus is still the KING of them all,just think about it :unlockable+sd card expansion+best battery life+Amoled screen , what else would you need from a 2 years old device ....
2nd. apart from the FFC, I see no diff from the 1st to the 2nd gen WP devices...I wonder who could tell what gen is a device from seeing and using just the touch screen.
I've also tested a lot devices, even handed some to my family and witnessed the results based on their demands, so here's my top ( I've only had the 900 for a few days but the battery is not impressive ): 1.Focus 2.Focus S 3. Omnia7 if you're kind to the brushed metal body.
htc9420 said:
1st Focus= cheap? no way, maybe you haven't seen cheap, plastic high end phones...
Focus is the engine of the WP train...Maybe it squeaks a bit, but surely CAN take a lot of abuse and never show any signs of that, unlike the metal body of an OMNIA7. Have you seen how a supercar's body shatters upon impact? I bet that feels cheap too... Focus is still the KING of them all,just think about it :unlockable+sd card expansion+best battery life+Amoled screen , what else would you need from a 2 years old device ....
2nd. apart from the FFC, I see no diff from the 1st to the 2nd gen WP devices...I wonder who could tell what gen is a device from seeing and using just the touch screen.
I've also tested a lot devices, even handed some to my family and witnessed the results based on their demands, so here's my top ( I've only had the 900 for a few days but the battery is not impressive ): 1.Focus 2.Focus S 3. Omnia7 if you're kind to the brushed metal body.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Hate to burst your bubble, but the Omnia 7 does not have a brushed metal body, it is faux brushed polycarbonate (BTW, I own one). It has a metal bezel but that's it. The gorilla glass gives it its heft and thereby "feels" like a more solid device. Honestly, the most solid feeling device is the DVP. The lack of internet sharing (wi-fi) is what has kept me away though. My wife has one and I'm always on it when she's not using it.