Develop Bugs

[Q] Question regarding HSPA+ technicality

I'm not versed in spectrum-talk, so here it goes: Why is it that T-Mobile HSPA+ states peak speeds of 21.6 Mbps, yet the G2 states peak speeds of 14.4 Mbps?
Also, what is the difference between HSDPA+ and HSPA+?

The HSPA+ network is capable of 21 Mbps, but the HSPA+ radio chip in the G2 is only rated at 14.4 Mbps. Currently the only device tmobile has that is capable of 21 Mbps is the web connect rocket.
HSPA = High Speed Packet Acces
HSPA includes both
HSDPA = High Speed Downlink Packet Access
and
HSUPA = High Speed Uplink Packet Access
HSPA+ = HSPA of 14.4 Mbps or faster (21 Mbps or the next step is 42 Mbps.

joebobjoe said:
I'm not versed in spectrum-talk, so here it goes: Why is it that T-Mobile HSPA+ states peak speeds of 21.6 Mbps, yet the G2 states peak speeds of 14.4 Mbps?
Also, what is the difference between HSDPA+ and HSPA+?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
HSPA+(3.75G) is actually newer and faster than HSDPA+(3.5G). In terms of speed, theoretically HSPA+ can reach speeds of 56Mbit/s while HSDPA+ can reach 21Mbit/s. Though in really the fastest your going to get for HSPA+ is 21.6 Mbps. As for why the G2 14.4 Mbps I have no clue. but its faster then my home internet

mtl171,
Technically HSPA+ consists of HSDPA+ and HSUPA+ just like HSPA contains both HSDPA and HSUPA.
I agree that we are unlikely to see HSPA+ networks faster than 21 Mbps in the U.S., I think carriers including T-Mobile will be investing in LTE before 42 Mbps HSPA+ especially since the speed on 21 Mbps is on par with many home broadband connections.
LTE has more benefits for carriers than just speed.

atlp99 said:
Technically HSPA+ consists of HSDPA+ and HSUPA+ just like HSPA contains both HSDPA and HSUPA.
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my bad. forgot about that.
atlp99 said:
I agree that we are unlikely to see HSPA+ networks faster than 21 Mbps in the U.S., I think carriers including T-Mobile will be investing in LTE before 42 Mbps HSPA+ especially since the speed on 21 Mbps is on par with many home broadband connections. LTE has more benefits for carriers than just speed.
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Click to collapse
True. though i thought Verizon and AT&T were going for LTE while T-Mobile and Sprint are going with Wi-Max. though i might be mistaken...

Well there are rumors about a merger between Clearwire and T-Mobile.
Anyway, does HSDPA+/HSPA+ rely on MIMO?

Sprint is the only carrier using WiMax
T-Mobile is also going to LTE.
Verizon , ATT, and T-Mobile have all committed to LTE for long term 4G networks.
Sprint is the only one using WiMax, and there is a chance they will switch to LTE also in the long run. Clearwire (which Sprint the majority shareholder) has indicated that their WiMax network could be converted to LTE without much effort.
T-Mobile is deploying HSPA+ currently before deploying LTE.
This makes sense to me, since the speeds of HSPA+ are higher than LTE will be at launch and T-Mobile does not have the network congestion problems that ATT and Verizon have. The biggest advantage of LTE is increased network capacity because of more efficient spectrum usage. I don't think that LTE speeds will pass HSPA+ speeds for at least a couple of years, but LTE has the potential to be faster in the long run.
Verizon is starting to deploy LTE for data cards the end of this year and is rumored to be launching LTE handsets towards the last half of 2011. Depending on the rumors, they may be running behind due to issues with calling over LTE but there are conflicting rumors at this point.

Joebojoe,
HSPA+ running at 42 Mbps and above technology similar to MIMO to download from 2 towers simultaneously.
There are rumors about a Clearwire and T-Mobile partnership. It could make sense for them to partner together for a LTE network roll out, and Clearwire has indicated that it could switch its network over to LTE or run LTE and WiMax.
The other option that has been rumored is that T-Mobile would simply buy some of the excess spectrum that Clearwire has.
Either of those options could make sense, but are just rumors with no real facts to support them. It's fun speculating though.

Thanks for the reply, yet I'm still curious why the G2 is labelled HSPA+ yet only supports 14.4 Mbps. 14.4 Mbps sounds more like HSDPA to me.

joebobjoe said:
Thanks for the reply, yet I'm still curious why the G2 is labelled HSPA+ yet only supports 14.4 Mbps. 14.4 Mbps sounds more like HSDPA to me.
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idk. design limitations? its still plenty fast. highly doubt people actually get 14.4 Mbps on a HSDPA connection.
Update: its design limitations. According to Qualcomm's website, "MSM7230(proccessor used in G2) support for HSPA+ networks - up to 14 Mbps downloads and 5.76 Mbps uploads"

Like mtl171 posted the 14.4 Mbps speed on the G2 is a limitation of the chipset. I don't think any of the chipsets available for phones HSPA+ at 21 Mbps. The next generation 1.2 and 1.5 Ghz Snapdragon chipsets are supposed to be capable of faster data speeds (if i remember correctly)but they have not reached the market yet.
Joebobjoe,
HSPA and HSPA+ are basically versions of the same technology Hspa+ is the newest iteration. The main difference is the speed.

Please explain... if there are chipsets that support it for the usb dongle, why can't the same thing work on a phone? Have they just not made the chipset small enough for a phone yet?

rpmccormick said:
Please explain... if there are chipsets that support it for the usb dongle, why can't the same thing work on a phone? Have they just not made the chipset small enough for a phone yet?
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patience young one the geniuses at qualcomm are working on this. meanwhile we just need to patiently wait a year or so for them to release it

Aren't those chipsets coming out in January?

joebobjoe said:
Aren't those chipsets coming out in January?
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to tell you the truth, i don't know. but my guess is phones released next year should support it.

Last I heard the 1.2 Ghz Snapdragon chipsets should be released to handset manufacturers late this year or early next year. Then add a couple of months for manufacturers to get handsets built with them, so probably late Q1 for those handsets to get market
rpmccormick,
The chipset in the usb dongle only has to transmit data, it does not have support the other functions of a phone (O.S., wifi, Bluetooth, screen, audio, video, power management, etc..), plus since the usb pulls power from your computer so power management is not as important. The usb dongle uses a much simpler chipset, that only has to transmit data while your computer handles everything else.

atlp99 said:
Last I heard the 1.2 Ghz Snapdragon chipsets should be released to handset manufacturers late this year or early next year. Then add a couple of months for manufacturers to get handsets built with them, so probably late Q1 for those handsets to get market.
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Click to collapse
1.2 ghz early next year. 1.5 dualcore Q4 next year.
http://androidandme.com/2010/09/news/is-qualcomm-and-htc-in-trouble-with-their-dual-core-processors/

Bringing this back since its relavant now....
So just found out about the new Samsung Galaxy S 4g with the new chipsets that give 21+ theroetical speeds....
I am a VERY VERY angry G2 owner who while loves my phone am very upset to find that I will be getting much less speeds out of their network labeled the SAME on both devices. I think this was a VERY deceiving move and hope that with enough complaints we can get some sort of retribution like lower data plan price or what not (the what not are better solutions like a free upgrade but i know those things dont happen as easy)
The only hope is that it can be updated to use 21+ from 14+ but this is HIGHLY unlikely.
Im curious to see what others think of this?
EDIT: this is a smart forum so lets not discuss the fact that not all areas will have that speed and just pretend that im in a market that already is pushing that when using one of those usb sticks..

no6969el said:
So just found out about the new Samsung Galaxy S 4g with the new chipsets that give 21+ theroetical speeds....
I am a VERY VERY angry G2 owner who while loves my phone am very upset to find that I will be getting much less speeds out of their network labeled the SAME on both devices. I think this was a VERY deceiving move and hope that with enough complaints we can get some sort of retribution like lower data plan price or what not (the what not are better solutions like a free upgrade but i know those things dont happen as easy)
The only hope is that it can be updated to use 21+ from 14+ but this is HIGHLY unlikely.
Im curious to see what others think of this?
EDIT: this is a smart forum so lets not discuss the fact that not all areas will have that speed and just pretend that im in a market that already is pushing that when using one of those usb sticks..
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I wouldn't worry about it too much. If you had a 4G galaxy s side by side with a G2 the galaxy s would very rarely achieve higher speeds. The G2 is a high end android phone that will not be obsolete anytime soon. You could always hold out for the next great phone but no matter what there will always be something better in a few months.
You should be happy about your decision to buy a G2 because its a fast, solid device and still the best phone in Tmo's lineup.
Sent from my HTC Vision using XDA App

Seriously you are getting that upset? Why do people get so uptight about so many things? Like the previous poster stated, real world is different. But technology moves forward, it doesn't stop for anyone. Life is much more difficult then getting one or two mbps less then another phone. I would be more upset if we never get a gingerbread update (yeah I know I would never use it seeing as I'm a xda member running cm7) simply because of principal. The whole vibrant fiasco would have me really ticked. It wasn't until people really started calling it out and got really loud did things really happen.
Sent from my HTC Vision

[Q] SGH-T989D (Telus) Slow "4G" on T-Mobile

Hello all!
Noob here, first post, so first and foremost please pardon any ignorance. I did search here as well as google without finding any significant results. I appreciate anyone who takes time to answer.
I recently bought an unlocked Galaxy S2x (989D) for use here in the USA on T-Mobile. I went with the 989D and not the 989 because I'm using a grandfathered T-Zones plan.
I rooted/flashed Juggernaut 5.0 through cwm, and the phone is working fine EXCEPT my download/upload speeds are lousy. Consistently 1.5Mbps down / 500Kbps Up MAX with 800-1200 ms ping via speedtest app from various parts of Maryland (Baltimore/DC corridor) and using different servers. My N1 has always tested faster than that in the same area, which is why I'm particularly concerned.
I tried flashing Telus KJ3, T-Mo KID and T-Mo KL1 modems found here:
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=1426001
But saw no improvement. I've also tried using the stock epc.t-mobile and the old internet2.voicestream APNs, with equally crappy results on both.
Is it just a matter of T-Mo having terrible speed over HSPA in this area, or is it possible that there's something screwy going on with the device/rom/kernel/radio? FWIW, calls and texts are fine, and wifi calling works as well. I've attached a few screenshots in case any of them might be helpful.
TIA!

hmm... you should read this http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=1514954
there's no spoon
highest speed i ever got was close to 10 Mbps in Canada 3G/3.5G networks
seems more like the area you live in, have poor Tmo coverage for data

That's disappointing, to say the least, especially since according to the coverage map, I'm smack in the middle of a giant blob of "4G Excellent" coverage. I'm still confused as to why my Nexus One would have better speedtest results. Perhaps HTC/Google FTW.

seriously???
Is this legit? Full 4G signal? I can't imagine how it's THIS slow. Does jugg 5.0 have any build.prop tweaks that could be farking with my data? Just threw my sim card into my N1 to compare and it's way faster.

@JoshD422, Did you ever figure this out?

[Q] Whats the difference between each of the radios?
JoshD422 said:
Hello all!
Noob here, first post, so first and foremost please pardon any ignorance. I did search here as well as google without finding any significant results. I appreciate anyone who takes time to answer.
I recently bought an unlocked Galaxy S2x (989D) for use here in the USA on T-Mobile. I went with the 989D and not the 989 because I'm using a grandfathered T-Zones plan.
I rooted/flashed Juggernaut 5.0 through cwm, and the phone is working fine EXCEPT my download/upload speeds are lousy. Consistently 1.5Mbps down / 500Kbps Up MAX with 800-1200 ms ping via speedtest app from various parts of Maryland (Baltimore/DC corridor) and using different servers. My N1 has always tested faster than that in the same area, which is why I'm particularly concerned.
I tried flashing Telus KJ3, T-Mo KID and T-Mo KL1 modems found here:
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=1426001
But saw no improvement. I've also tried using the stock epc.t-mobile and the old internet2.voicestream APNs, with equally crappy results on both.
Is it just a matter of T-Mo having terrible speed over HSPA in this area, or is it possible that there's something screwy going on with the device/rom/kernel/radio? FWIW, calls and texts are fine, and wifi calling works as well. I've attached a few screenshots in case any of them might be helpful.
TIA!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I am also wondering about this same fact with a real Telus phone in Canada. I'm also wondering about the difference between the 3 radios that were provided with the Darkside.UCLE2 Beta 5 ROM. (Don't get me wrong, appreciate all the hard work from these guys, amazing where the T989 dev has come already!)
I tried all 3 radios, and get different speeds with each one. Blazes 4G radio I can't seem to tether, and then the T-mo radios I'm having issues with Bluetooth and even Data.
Could someone if you have a minute explain what the difference is between the radios and maybe suggest what radio would be best for us Telus users in Canada?
Cheers, TIA!
Drew
---------- Post added at 03:34 PM ---------- Previous post was at 03:29 PM ----------
JoshD422 said:
Is this legit? Full 4G signal? I can't imagine how it's THIS slow. Does jugg 5.0 have any build.prop tweaks that could be farking with my data? Just threw my sim card into my N1 to compare and it's way faster.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
JoshD422,
I will be the first to tell you living in Toronto, that its completely unpredictable in Canada.
I've had areas if there is high use downtown I will get even worse results than that (seen a ping of over 1000ms ).
At the same time I can redo a speedtest about 200 metres away, and get results up in the 10 Mbps and pings of 45 ms. So I don't believe that part has to do with the radios but more the quality of service, and I'm in whats supposed to have the best service city in Canada.

Your problem definitely seems to be due to the T-Zones plan. I don't have that plan and I'm using an unlocked stock Telus T989D in Maryland and I get 2-4 Mbps down and 0.7-1.0 Mbps up

cumings said:
Your problem definitely seems to be due to the T-Zones plan. I don't have that plan and I'm using an unlocked stock Telus T989D in Maryland and I get 2-4 Mbps down and 0.7-1.0 Mbps up
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Click to collapse
Do you get the "4G" icon?
I am on a stock unlocked T989d in the Atlanta area and get similar speed to you. However, I only see the "3G" icon in my phone.

joe74 said:
Do you get the "4G" icon?
I am on a stock unlocked T989d in the Atlanta area and get similar speed to you. However, I only see the "3G" icon in my phone.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yes, only "3g" icon in MD/DC area. I guess maybe perhaps this is not as fast as using the T-Mobile radio software that comes stock in the T989, but it's plenty fast for me. I don't think the "4g" capability is much faster, anyway.

cumings said:
Yes, only "3g" icon in MD/DC area. I guess maybe perhaps this is not as fast as using the T-Mobile radio software that comes stock in the T989, but it's plenty fast for me. I don't think the "4g" capability is much faster, anyway.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I think the "4g" icon is purely cosmetic. I have an unlocked Telus T989d on Tmobile and my co-worker has the Tmobile T989 on Tmobile. We both did a Speedtest side to side and we both got ~12Mbps down, ~1.3Mbps up. My phone was showing the 3g icon, while his was showing the 4g icon. Both our networks showed up as HSPA. Both of us in our respective stock, un-rooted ROMs.

While T-Mo roms do tend to be a bit over zelus with the 4G icon, it is much faster than a 3G connection. Where I live in Orlando is a 4G area and I get over 20mbs download speeds and over 2mbps upload speeds..
Side note though.. it is funny that people still use "" or call it 3.5G when the T-Mobile network has been accepted as 4G for almost a year now .. I tried to find the artical but its being illusive today..

PJcastaldo said:
While T-Mo roms do tend to be a bit over zelus with the 4G icon, it is much faster than a 3G connection. Where I live in Orlando is a 4G area and I get over 20mbs download speeds and over 2mbps upload speeds..
Side note though.. it is funny that people still use "" or call it 3.5G when the T-Mobile network has been accepted as 4G for almost a year now .. I tried to find the artical but its being illusive today..
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Officially, 4G is supposed to get 1000mbs peak download. Tmobile uses HSPA+ which peaks at ~80mbs. I think that is why people call it 3.5G or use the "4G" when talking Tmobile.

Is it normal/acceptable for "4g" speeds to be less than 2 Mb?

About a month ago my area upgraded from EDGE to HSPA+. I finally decided to play with the speedtest.net app yesterday and I was only managing download speeds of maybe 1 or 2Mb, on a good test. This is enough for casual use, I suppose, but most people (on this board at least) seem to be getting much better speeds than that. A nearby area where the State University resides also produces similar speeds on my GNex and my previous phone (AT&T Galaxy S2).
Is this normal or do I need to change something on my phone?

blackplague1347 said:
About a month ago my area upgraded from EDGE to HSPA+. I finally decided to play with the speedtest.net app yesterday and I was only managing download speeds of maybe 1 or 2Mb, on a good test. This is enough for casual use, I suppose, but most people (on this board at least) seem to be getting much better speeds than that. A nearby area where the State University resides also produces similar speeds on my GNex and my previous phone (AT&T Galaxy S2).
Is this normal or do I need to change something on my phone?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
1-3mbps is pretty normal for me indoors with 2-3 bars of signal, with 4-5 or so outdoors with better signal. I can only pull down those crazy numbers of 10+ with HSPA+ late at night when the towers aren't as busy. I'm in a small town, but we've had HSPA+ for a good year or more now (heck, I was on Verizon when it was switched on, so I don't know exactly how long...). Maybe your network is still getting upgraded / installed and the process isn't done yet?
I'm on the T-mobile $30 plan, by the way. I've heard AT&T's HSPA+ can be significantly slower in some places, so that may be part of it?

if they just rolled out the towers a month ago and upgraded to HSPA+, I'm not at all surprised by those speeds.

Att's hspa is notoriously slow compared to Tmo. I see between 6 and 18 mbps on my Tmo phones and my Att phones max out at around 6, averaging around 3.
For an area that just now got hspa turned on when the rest of the country is getting LTE, those speeds you are describing seem perfectly normal.
Sent from my Galaxy Nexus using Tapatalk 2

I'm on T-Mobile and 1-2Mb is normal for me with 5 bars. If I'm extremely lucky I sometimes see 3Mb.
T-Mobile's "4G" in Phoenix is exactly the same speed as my 3G Vibrant.

Ravynmagi said:
I'm on T-Mobile and 1-2Mb is normal for me with 5 bars. If I'm extremely lucky I sometimes see 3Mb.
T-Mobile's "4G" in Phoenix is exactly the same speed as my 3G Vibrant.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
True, location also plays a big role.
Sent from my Galaxy Nexus using Tapatalk 2

I would be happy to get 6Mb down with AT&T in Austin. Max is about 3.1Mbps which I think is crap since we know it is capable of more. Interestingly, AT&T LTE in the same areas rock!

TJBunch1228 said:
Att's hspa is notoriously slow compared to Tmo. I see between 6 and 18 mbps on my Tmo phones and my Att phones max out at around 6, averaging around 3.
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Click to collapse
Well that's also because T-Mobile has HSPA+ 42mbps deployed, and devices that can make use of it. Most AT&T devices are at best 21mbps capable, and not all of their towers are.

Depends on signal strength. On VZW LTE I can pull 20+ mbps in Seattle, but only 2-5 mbps in outlying areas.
Sent from my Galaxy Nexus using xda premium

Winesnob said:
Depends on signal strength. On VZW LTE I can pull 20+ mbps in Seattle, but only 2-5 mbps in outlying areas.
Click to expand...
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Well, we're talking about AT&T HSPA+ in here so...

martonikaj said:
Well, we're talking about AT&T HSPA+ in here so...
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...so the thread title asked about 4g speeds. 4g = HSPA+ or LTE.

Winesnob said:
...so the thread title asked about 4g speeds. 4g = HSPA+ or LTE.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
"4g" in quotes, and OP specifically is talking about AT&T.

I'll have to run speedtest some more when I'm out of town and see what kind of numbers I can get. I would be interested to see what speeds a 3G phone gets in the same region as my "4G" Gnex (HSPA+ via AT&T, not LTE via Verizon).

t-mobile frequencies

Did t-mobile finally switched their 3g/4g frequencies to use any compatible ATT device? if,so, can I use my unlocked i747 with tmo 4g prepaid plan?

As I understand it, an AT&T phone won't be able to take advantage of T-Mobile's HSPA+ 42Mbps even if they have switched. T-Mobile's network is a work in progress, there's not telling if they have or have not. Try finding a coverage map?

Medlock87 said:
As I understand it, an AT&T phone won't be able to take advantage of T-Mobile's HSPA+ 42Mbps even if they have switched. T-Mobile's network is a work in progress, there's not telling if they have or have not. Try finding a coverage map?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Actually, it's a little more complicated than that. What T-Mo is going through is a two step process: first, 'refarming' (which will reallocate AWS (EDGE) channels to LTE Band 4, and also turn on the AT&T access), and then next year rolling out their LTE. AT&T phones use the same channels/bands, so the refarming is all that's necessary to access HSPA+; unfortunately, the refarming is going on now and isn't complete in more than about 12-15 markets. However, my home market (Chicago) is listed as "promised" but changing by the day, and I am now routinely getting the magic 4G light on my status bar (however, not in farther out suburbs and the like). This is in contrast to just a month ago, where it only seemed to work in the Loop. So, in other words, check with (ahem) sources around the Web that are doing a good job of tracking what markets are being worked on and which ones are live. If you're not in a major metropolitan area, you'll probably have a wait. I just got the phone November 9th, and for this market, it's been pretty much perfect timing.

[Q] HSPA+ speed goes down after LTE launch

Dont know If anyone noticed this. I live in wash dc and 3 days ago LTE went live here. The thing is this though: I have a galaxy s3 with tmobile which supports hspa+ 42MB but not LTE and before the greatest LTE lauch here I was having like 21MB/s down and 3MB/s up on HSPA+ network. However after the LTE lauch my speeds on HSPA+ network went way down to constant 8MB/s down and 2.2MB/s up no matter what time u do the test no matter what server u use. I just hope this is not just another Tmobile trick to force me to update to an LTE ready device to be able to access higher speeds after I just got the not LTE ready galaxy s3. Can anyone in an LTE area confirm this?

My speeds are a little slower
And I'm getting more 3g and less HSPA
Sent from my SGH-T999 using xda app-developers app

It all depends on spectrum licenses in your area. Where T-Mobile has to refarm their spectrum for LTE it will cut HSPA down to 21mbps.

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Well now that sucks. So my speeds go down when they turn on LTE? How lovely...
Sent from my SGH-T999 using xda app-developers app

I think the problem is stemming from excess bandwidth consumption by those markets that have LTE and people with Note IIs ready to use it. The backhaul needs to be increased. Just like what happened when they launched UMTS... Give it some time. Or go get an LTE phone.

I live in KC and have not experienced any drop. My market and towers were confirmed by tmo to be running both.

The issue really is how good your PCS (1900) coverage is... The refarming will slide the AWS HSPA to 1900 to make room for LTE. This will cause problems in markets that don't have full PCS licenses or decent PCS coverage. And obviously indoor speeds will be slower when on PCS due to building penetration.

I also remember reading that part of the reason T-Mobile's HSPA+ was so fast was the fact that it uses one frequency for upload and the other for download, whereas PCS just uses one frequency for both. So I guess we will be as average as the rest now?

No data rate change here
jcbofkc said:
I live in KC and have not experienced any drop. My market and towers were confirmed by tmo to be running both.
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Same for LV. I have not noticed any major drop in data speed.