Develop Bugs

[Q] Stock gingerbread launcher.

Please tell me why people like it? It has 3 non changable icons that stay one color and looks like its out of place compared to the rest of a home screen setup.
Just wondering whats so great about it? Am i missing something?
Sent from prison

different strokes for different folks.

It gives more of a stock feeling than ADW. And the trashcan is on the bottom dock, the only reasons I used it, then I moved to ADW for honeybread
Sent from my HTC Vision

I actually think it looks a bit better than adw. It gives more of a clean look.
Sent from my HTC Vision using XDA App

Because the app drawer is the best app drawer of all of them! Especially with a phone with good graphics!
Sent from my HTC Vision using XDA Premium App

Isn't the same effect app drawer available on adw and lppro?
Sent from prison

Well gb launcher2 is just so much smoother then adw or lp. Home screen scrolling is buttery smooth, and the transition for opening the app drawer is much nicer then the other two. The app drawer cube effect shows 5 rows in the fold compared to the others. Now that I can use themes in CM7 without adw, I use it.

And in the stock launcher the apps in the drawer "bounce" much smoother than LP, not as laggy

I believe i read somewhere on here that the stock launcher is hardware accelerated. That is why is runs faster and smoother.
I personally prefer anything stock. Stock apps seem, to me at least, to be smaller and faster. Try to keep the fluff to a minimum.

I love stock anything! My Nexus One made me love the 3D app drawer, and on my G2, its only smoother! I can't wait to see how smooth a stock dual core Android 2.4 phone from Google is gonna be! The G2x is a good example, however it will be froyo, meaning not fully dual core compatible like 2.4 will be! My guess....Nexus X by Motorola! I can wish, can't I??
Sent from my HTC Vision using XDA Premium App

I just love that stock vanilla google experience...same when ICS, Jellybean drop...ill stick to stock...no overlays or launchers for me...BTW is there a zip I can flash for the gingerbread launcher over adw in CM7..? (There was one for NS)
Edit: I know there's a couple in the market but those aren't as smooth as the ones in NS Development...
Sent from my HTC Vision using xda premium

http://www.addictivetips.com/mobile...-launcher-in-cm7-on-htc-desire-z-t-mobile-g2/
You can get it from there, worked very well for me.
Sent from my HTC Vision using XDA App

I flashed the dark launcher zip I used to have for my nexus and its working just fine but ill try this one also...thx
Sent from my htc_vision using xda premium

thomas_wlc how did you make this launcher work very well on cm7? i flashed it and its just as laggy as adw (switching between homescreens)

shadal said:
thomas_wlc how did you make this launcher work very well on cm7? i flashed it and its just as laggy as adw (switching between homescreens)
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Hey,
I really didn't have to do anything but flash it. I flashed this over the ILWT cm7 rom and it just worked right out of the box (on 187b as well as 204).
I wouldn't know how to improve the performance of the launcher, except for common guesses such as reflashing/wiping and such.
Maybe it's just a different understanding of what "working really well" means. I never did get it to work perfectly buttery smooth, a very tiny lag always remained (even though it was running a lot better than adw).

Rom developers - plz don't remove TW launcher.

TW launcher appears to be the only launcher natively using gpu acceleration on E4GT. Please don't remove it by default.
That means more battery drain and less smoothness with custom launchers compared to TW.
Thanks.

Do a titanium backup before flashing rom and restore twlauncher or use root explorer to copy apk to sd card so u can install when flashing new rom.
Fyi i use launcher pro with no lag or battery drain issues.
Sent from my SPH-D710 using xda premium

nabbed said:
TW launcher appears to be the only launcher natively using gpu acceleration on E4GT. Please don't remove it by default.
That means more battery drain and less smoothness with custom launchers compared to TW.
Thanks.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I'm having a real hard time noticing TW being any smoother than LP and even ADW and Launcher7. GoLauncher is a little rough in spots, the same for QQLauncher...but they always were.
Though battery drain is a realistic concern...I think I'm going to put it back in and try that for a few days and see if I notice a difference. Battery-life above almost all else...even smoothness...so long as it is a noticeable increase.

I actually like TW 4.0. I used to be a Launcher Pro fan, and even bought the full version. But with TW4, I don't feel the need to use LP anymore.

I was always a tw launcher fan
Even if a dev removes it ill put it back in
Its not to hard
Sent from my SPH-D710 using xda premium

gtuansdiamm said:
I was always a tw launcher fan
Even if a dev removes it ill put it back in
Its not to hard
Sent from my SPH-D710 using xda premium
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Lmao. I also like the newer launcher . The app drawer drives me nuts sometimes tho
Sent from my GT-I9100 using Tapatalk

nabbed said:
TW launcher appears to be the only launcher natively using gpu acceleration on E4GT. Please don't remove it by default.
That means more battery drain and less smoothness with custom launchers compared to TW.
Thanks.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Where is this documented?
Sent from my SPH-D710 using Tapatalk

I notice no difference between TW launcher and ADW EX.
Well, except ADW looks better.

Removing the TW launcher prevents some processes from running. At least that was the case with the OG Epic. This actually saved on battery life.
If you want smooth try SPB Shell 3D. They don't come any smoother than that.
TW Launcher is very easy to add back, if you really like it that much.

clamknuckle said:
I notice no difference between TW launcher and ADW EX.
Well, except ADW looks better.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
+1
After using adw ex, I can't see myself using anything else, lol. adw ex is THE BEST. Screen transitions alone are worth it. And the fact that you can speed up the screen transitions--it's feature packed and awesome.

ptfdmedic said:
Removing the TW launcher prevents some processes from running. At least that was the case with the OG Epic. This actually saved on battery life.
If you want smooth try SPB Shell 3D. They don't come any smoother than that.
TW Launcher is very easy to add back, if you really like it that much.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I got 26 hours of life w/moderate use out of this phone (bone stock) yesterday, and only 8 of it was when I was asleep. Battery life just doesn't seem to be an issue with this thing.

nabbed said:
TW launcher appears to be the only launcher natively using gpu acceleration on E4GT. Please don't remove it by default.
That means more battery drain and less smoothness with custom launchers compared to TW.
Thanks.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
So, is there any truth to this?

mattykinsx said:
So, is there any truth to this?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I don't think so, I've gotten similar battery life and performance with all the launchers i've tried so far.
Welcome to the Epic Touch forums matty, you probably don't remember me but I remember you from the OG Evo general section.
You were thanking me for telling some noob that XDA wasn't the desperate housewives of sprint

AbsolutZeroGI said:
I don't think so, I've gotten similar battery life and performance with all the launchers i've tried so far.
Welcome to the Epic Touch forums matty, you probably don't remember me but I remember you from the OG Evo general section.
You were thanking me for telling some noob that XDA wasn't the desperate housewives of sprint
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Alright, I'm curious because it does seem like there would be some legitimacy to this claim.
And thanks, I'm considering picking this up... depending on the Nexus Prime.
Although you'd think one wouldn't be able to differentiate from all the drama of the Evo 4g forums, I do remember you.

ptfdmedic said:
Removing the TW launcher prevents some processes from running. At least that was the case with the OG Epic. This actually saved on battery life.
If you want smooth try SPB Shell 3D. They don't come any smoother than that.
TW Launcher is very easy to add back, if you really like it that much.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Tried SPB Shell 3D, it's smooth but TW is smoother

mattykinsx said:
Alright, I'm curious because it does seem like there would be some legitimacy to this claim.
And thanks, I'm considering picking this up... depending on the Nexus Prime.
Although you'd think one wouldn't be able to differentiate from all the drama of the Evo 4g forums, I do remember you.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Fairly sure the claim of TW being HW accelerated is well known to be true, the stock browser is too.

[Q] Touchwiz vs....

So Ive tried all kinds of launchers out there. And after a few weeks or so I keep finding myself going back to touchwiz. I'm always reading how people hate touchwiz but Im starting to thing that its the best launcher.
I was using GOLauncher for the longest but it just doesn't feel as nice as touchwiz.
What launchers are you using that you think is better than touchwiz?

I'm using ADW Launcher. Right now, I have 4 icons of my choice on the bottom, to go to my App Drawer, you have to swipe up, and swiping down anywhere brings the notification down, so I don't have to reach all the way to the top.
I think the real thing is TouchWiz vs MotoBlur vs HTC Sense. I don't really mind TouchWiz, but I really do lyk being able to swipe up for the app drawer. BTW, I really prefer HTC Sense. It's so awesome.
Also, TouchWiz uses a lot of resources. That's also a reason why the Vibrant isn't getting ICS with TouchWiz. TouchWiz has too much going on with it, which slows the phone down.
You probably won't notice the slow down, unless you change your ROM and use an AOSP ROM. (Vanilla Android)

I don't think the epic 4g touch will ever slow down. Touch Wizz home screen is hardware accerrated which means scroling side to side will be made smoother than a non HW accellerates launcher (tecknically). How ever i have used GOlauncher PRO which isnt HW accellarated and its practically just as smooth even though on any phone of lesser hardware it would be noticably laggier. This phone just powers through with ease how ever. Eventually i went back to touch wizz because its simple and works flawlessly and isnt bad looking (unlike how i feel about how htc sense looks). OP i went down the same exact test road you did and honestly Touch Wiz is my personal choice. Its really up to you and what style you like. This phone will breeze through any aftermarket launcher wether its HW accellerated or not. I would suggest dooling around and testing several out. There lots of different tweaks that ADB launcher and GO launcher offer that Touch Wizz doesnt. But i love how simple and easy it is and looks.
Oh FYI HTC Sense and MotoBlur arnt available for a samsung phone. Honestly i prefer Touch Wizz over sense any day after using sense for over 2 years. I know you were asking for what launchers people think are the best. I like stock the most but have done TONS of research of after market launchers and it seems the the one you and i have both already tested GO Launcher Pro is by far the most widely used and the overall favorite for after market ones.

No_Nickname90 said:
I'm using ADW Launcher. Right now, I have 4 icons of my choice on the bottom, to go to my App Drawer, you have to swipe up, and swiping down anywhere brings the notification down, so I don't have to reach all the way to the top.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
The customizable dock and gestures are a large reason I like the look and feel of GO Launcher EX over TouchWiz. I even played some with ADW, but still like GO Launcher slightly better. It may be because I'm an iPhone convert [FREE AT LAST!] and felt I could customize GO Launcher a little more to match things I'm used to like sideways scrolling in the app drawer, etc.
Haven't compared speed too carefully, but it seems as fast. I recently rooted, put down the Blazer ROM, and overclocked, so either way it's blazing.

MDK666 said:
So Ive tried all kinds of launchers out there. And after a few weeks or so I keep finding myself going back to touchwiz. I'm always reading how people hate touchwiz but Im starting to thing that its the best launcher.
I was using GOLauncher for the longest but it just doesn't feel as nice as touchwiz.
What launchers are you using that you think is better than touchwiz?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
The newest iteration of ADW EX is the best launcher experience I've ever used: To me, even better than Go Launcher, what with the new ICS-like interface.
That's one of the apps that I'm so glad I paid for, as the dev is totally on his game as far as updates and cutting-edge releases go.
There's a reason that Teamdouche included ADW as part of CyanogenMod for all that time:
It works REALLY well, and has enough customization out-of-the-box that even those guys basically said "Yeah, this'll work fine for us."
That speaks volumes, to me.
ADW EX ftw, for now, and for the foreseeable future, as well.
Sent from my SPH-D710 using xda premium

Ah -- I prob haven't tried the newest edition. I'll check it out!

I have tried them all. But I still don't care who knows it but I like touchwiz. And I'm not just talking about replacement launchers. Blur/sense/aosp they all suk.
Touchwiz is my fave. Also I have my nomex undies on sooo flame away.
---------- Post added at 01:05 PM ---------- Previous post was at 01:02 PM ----------
But I do agree W/mazook ADWex is purty good. But I still always go back to TW..

I have no problem with TW, I just got too used to launcher pro, honestly only the dock I would miss, I'm used to having 5 icons there and the app drawer always in center.

Adw ex +1
sent from my E4Gtouch

jmejiaa said:
I have no problem with TW, I just got too used to launcher pro, honestly only the dock I would miss, I'm used to having 5 icons there and the app drawer always in center.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
If you like 5app drawer W// speed and stability give Calkin's ROM a try. I have tried them all and my fav is Calkin's sheot.

Indrid Cole said:
If you like 5app drawer W// speed and stability give Calkin's ROM a try. I have tried them all and my fav is Calkin's sheot.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Just meant 5 app dock.. The drawer is fine for me(I prefer scroll, can't deal with regular TW drawer)

jmejiaa said:
Just meant 5 app dock.. The drawer is fine for me(I prefer scroll, can't deal with regular TW drawer)
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Sorry about that. Ment to also put that it does have a 5app dock also. Give it a try,this is what stock outa the box should be. Samsung needs to fire there whole R&D department and hire some of the dev's here on XDA.
---------- Post added at 03:32 PM ---------- Previous post was at 03:25 PM ----------
One last thing. Have you tried to hold your finger on the bottom page indicator dots and slide your finger? It will move through your pages super fast but not so fast that you cant see your apps. I feel this much faster than any scrolling app drawer. Just my two cents. It works the same on the home screen also.

mazook98 said:
The newest iteration of ADW EX is the best launcher experience I've ever used: To me, even better than Go Launcher, what with the new ICS-like interface.
That's one of the apps that I'm so glad I paid for, as the dev is totally on his game as far as updates and cutting-edge releases go.
There's a reason that Teamdouche included ADW as part of CyanogenMod for all that time:
It works REALLY well, and has enough customization out-of-the-box that even those guys basically said "Yeah, this'll work fine for us."
That speaks volumes, to me.
ADW EX ftw, for now, and for the foreseeable future, as well.
Sent from my SPH-D710 using xda premium
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
The latest update of ADW EX is great. I use it on my Epic Touch and my NS4G running ICS. I am really torn between the ICS stock launcher and ADW EX on my Nexus but ADW EX runs so well and with a custom ICS icon pack...
Sent from my Nexus S 4G using xda premium

jmejiaa said:
I have no problem with TW, I just got too used to launcher pro, honestly only the dock I would miss, I'm used to having 5 icons there and the app drawer always in center.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
5 is nice.
7 is nicer:
(Once again, ADW EX.)
Sent from my SPH-D710 using xda premium

Here's a shot with a regular, non-live wallpaper, btw:
(I'm just digging the new ADW.)
And, I'm knee-deep in wrapping presents at 4:00ish in the morning on XMAS Eve, because I tend to procrastinate, lol.
Sent from my SPH-D710 using xda premium

mazook98 said:
5 is nice.
7 is nicer:
View attachment 829041
(Once again, ADW EX.)
Sent from my SPH-D710 using xda premium
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I havent tried ADWex but it looks pimpin! Im going give that **** a try right now!

mazook98 said:
Here's a shot with a regular, non-live wallpaper, btw:
View attachment 829042
(I'm just digging the new ADW.)
And, I'm knee-deep in wrapping presents at 4:00ish in the morning on XMAS Eve, because I tend to procrastinate, lol.
Sent from my SPH-D710 using xda premium
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I love the new ADW as well. At first I didn't think I could edit my icons anymore. I accidentally double tapped one and the options showed up, I have been loving it ever since
Sent from my Nexus S 4G using xda premium

god anything is better than touchwiz (throws up) lol
adw ex ftw....

banksmi09 said:
god anything is better than touchwiz (throws up) lol
adw ex ftw....
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Banks, PLEASE keep updating Minimal Black theme! I hope that theme stays around for the life of this phone!
Sent from my SPH-D710 using Tapatalk

JohnCorleone said:
Banks, PLEASE keep updating Minimal Black theme! I hope that theme stays around for the life of this phone!
Sent from my SPH-D710 using Tapatalk
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I will most def.
Sent from my SPH-D710 using xda premium

[Q] Why use any launcher over GO Launcher on Rooted Phone (Calk EG4T V 1.6 ROM))?

Can anyone help me with why I should use any launcher over GO Launcher? I have rooted and installed the new Calkulin V1.6 ROM.
Thanks!

Personally I feel as if Go Launcher was not specialized for Android 4.0, so I stuck with NOVA launcher. BTW you should give that a shot, I didn't like it at first, but I grew into and now its running great. I also run Calk's E4GT 2 v1.6, and it is great. It should come with NOVA launcher if you didn't apply the barebones converter.
Here's a link if you did:
https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.teslacoilsw.launcher&hl=en

TPizzle said:
Personally I feel as if Go Launcher was not specialized for Android 4.0, so I stuck with NOVA launcher. BTW you should give that a shot, I didn't like it at first, but I grew into and now its running great. I also run Calk's E4GT 2 v1.6, and it is great. It should come with NOVA launcher if you didn't apply the barebones converter.
Here's a link if you did:
https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.teslacoilsw.launcher&hl=en
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Is there any to pull my screens from Go Launcher into Nova? Also, dumb question, how do I pull up the app drawer in Nova???

jamiebburg said:
Is there any to pull my screens from Go Launcher into Nova? Also, dumb question, how do I pull up the app drawer in Nova???
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You can't transfer screens across different launchers, at least not to my knowledge, the format isn't really standardized. If you don't see the app drawer, hold onto any empty space in the launcher until a menu comes up. Select Nova Actions and the app drawer should be there. You can drag that into the dock so it stays there.

Go feels bloated and slow to me, switch back to regular or tw and its faster and smoother.

I use adw ex because go lags n freezes and doesnt have the draw animations I like
Sent from my SPH-D710 using XDA

Really? Go never lags or freezes and I have about 30 themes installed and tons of apps.
Sent from my Samsung® Galaxy™ SII Epic™ Touch 4G running CyanogenMod9™ ICS!

Go launcher also lags and freezes for me. I use adw ex

I don't like GO because it looks tacky and it's really bloated. All the widgets just seem to suck battery. ADW EX all the way
Sent from my SPH-D710 using xda premium

Actually I take that back. I'm loving Launcher 7 right now!
Sent from my SPH-D710 using xda premium

Trebuchet or Nova
If you want as close to pure ICS as possible, download the Trebuchet launcher. If you want a few more features, I like Nova Prime. I've tried Go! Launcher several times, and although themes are plentiful and there are some impressive transitions, I always get bored of the fluff and extra menus and choose something more minimalist. In my case, I flashed to ICS because I wanted to have a simpler bloat-free experience, and intentionally adding more seems counterproductive.

If you're rooted, I say why use any rom other than blu kuban? Best experience I've had to date.
Sent from my SPH-D710 using xda premium

Apex to me seems to be the best as of right now and really stable. I even bought the pro key

I use Nova Launcher because it's really smooth, polished, and has a ton of features. I used to use GO but it has sooo much bloatware. Why does a Launcher need to have its own App store, Lockscreens, messages, etc.? GO runs really smooth, but the features and different aspects just make it look unorganized in my opinion and cluttered.

I used Apex launcher (Pro) because I'm running ICS as well and not only is is built for ICS (love the widget drawer!), but damn near has the same customization features of ADW Ex and it's quite speedy and smooth (which I use when I'm on GB).

AJC9000 said:
Apex to me seems to be the best as of right now and really stable. I even bought the pro key
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
+1, I use Apex all the time for my 4.0 roms

...

I use launcher 7. I love it, haven't had any problems.
Sent from my SPH-D710 using xda premium

[Q/A] Who actually likes Touchwiz?

I mean.. comon it looks terrible especially when I came from the HTC hero G2 which had amazing UI designs and creative customizations (transparent, minimalistic, colors matching beautifully, sometimes complex with lots of beauty)
i cant wait till AOSP comes out and more themes gets developed. I have seen some awesome ones here, few but still special.
But who here likes touchwiz? or dont care about the looks and feel of it?

I don't, but here is some AOKP if you want to give it a shot.
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?p=26108781
Sent from AOKP Goodness :-D

LoopDoGG79 said:
I don't, but here is some AOKP if you want to give it a shot.
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?p=26108781
Sent from AOKP Goodness :-D
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Thanks!

I've been using it cause Samsung made it for my phone.. Its very smooth even while under clocked, plus everything just always works
Sent from the moon

Been using GoEx for years...love it
Sent from my GT-N7000 using xda premium

I think it looks and feels ok. But the one thing that stops me from using it is the way folders look and work.. So I just use other launchers and I can still benefit from the good things that touch wiz has
I like my Roms the way I like my women..... Clean and smooth

tbong777 said:
Been using GoEx for years...love it
Sent from my GT-N7000 using xda premium
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Go ex is the best...you can do almost any look you want with it and loads super fast...
Sent from my SGH-T989 using xda premium

Coming from Sense, I love touch wiz. Besides, you own wallpapers and stuff make it all look the same in the end to me. Sense felt like it had so many unneeded elements to it

I use and like it.
Sent from my SGH-T989 using XDA

the TW on the s2 is dull, the s3 TW is much better. Given that some prefer not to flash things, my fav launchers are Apex and Nemus.

I like it. But SG3's Touchwiz is much better

I have the GNote and the Galaxy S2, use touchwiz on both.....I do switch between Nova and touchwiz. I have loved touchwiz since the Samsung vibrant. Don't know I love it and prefer it, I just do.

I hate how people whine about tw launcher. Tw is much more than a launcher. In fact i dont like ANY stock launcher. I always end up putting go launcher or something else over it. But tw is awesome. Slide to call/text, swipe finger on notification bar for brightness, the freaking music player is the best i have ever used. Seriously id prefer tw over any ui, even aosp
Sent from Flip's SGS2

Tw folders arent that good. Adw ex and apex are much better IMHO
Sent from my SGH-T989 using Tapatalk 2

elflip88 said:
I hate how people whine about tw launcher. Tw is much more than a launcher. In fact i dont like ANY stock launcher. I always end up putting go launcher or something else over it. But tw is awesome. Slide to call/text, swipe finger on notification bar for brightness, the freaking music player is the best i have ever used. Seriously id prefer tw over any ui, even aosp
Sent from Flip's SGS2
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I can agree with this on the TW features...they are pretty nice but I do prefer the look of aosp.

I Like It. The Icons Are Simply The Best. Gives The phone a nice look.
Sent from my SGH-T989 using xda premium

I love touchwiz, but I hate the launcher. Mainly because it doesn't rotate.
But All the features in the framework are amazing. The phone book is great. The media players to me work the best of all the company specific, and unlike most framework it allows file sharing without 3rd party apps. Like if I want to send my friend a song.
I think Sense is too heavy, Blur doesn't really add anything but an ugly color scheme (but decent widgets), LG devices actually has a nice framework. But I prefer TW.
Sent from my SGH-T989 using xda premium

rymanh said:
I think it looks and feels ok. But the one thing that stops me from using it is the way folders look and work..
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I was going to say the exact same thing. The UX launcher from the S3 handles folders a lot better. I actually found myself with way more folders than normal because they worked so much better.
I'll admit I have yet to try any aftermarket launchers, but the I really like the S3 launcher.

1sagain said:
I mean.. comon it looks terrible especially when I came from the HTC hero G2 which had amazing UI designs and creative customizations (transparent, minimalistic, colors matching beautifully, sometimes complex with lots of beauty)
i cant wait till AOSP comes out and more themes gets developed. I have seen some awesome ones here, few but still special.
But who here likes touchwiz? or dont care about the looks and feel of it?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
i dont mind the look of touchwiz on the s3. it looks smooth and fast, and im so glad that they finally let you customize the dock. but the only thing that really bothers me is ridiculously ugly folders. forces me to have to download apex or go laucher themes. on apex i can put two apps in a folder and it looks so simple and nice. in touchwiz it makes it look like a folder on your windows laptop and doesn't adjust the icons to how many apps are in the folder.

I just started using Apex and am adjusting from GoLauncher EX. That was adjusted from TouchWhiz. Each to their own when it comes to preference. There are some nice features I like about all of them... but so far, GoLauncher appears to be the most versatile when it comes to a customized a launcher as a whole.
My two cents.