Related
My reasons why I think Windows Phone 7 fail. I'm not here to profess my love for Apple, Google, Linux, Open Source or Nokia. Rather I'm here to present simple facts and problems that could be bad for the platform.
Windows Phone 7 lacks CDMA support: Why? So your going to tell many of the thousands of Verizon Wireless, Sprint, US Cellular Users, MetroPCs cellphone users well I'm glad you were excited about Windows Phone 7 but sorry no handset for you.
It Cost's Money: Why would a phone manufacturer pay to use a platform that is very immature, when you could easily make a device that has a mature platform like Android or Symbian without paying a licensing to use the OS.
Hardware Requirements prevent it from reaching low end markets: Well requiring basic thing like Accelerometer with compass, ambient light sensor, proximity sensor, 5mp camera, shutterbutton, and Assisted GPS etc is perfectly acceptable but requiring a 1ghz processor will raise hardware costs and will prevent low end and midrange phone users from buying Windows Phone 7 devices.
Windows Mobile 6.5 has little marketshare and the Microsoft Kin Was a Huge Failure: Why would smarthphone manufacturers want to create a phone with Windows Phone 7 when Windows Mobile 6.5 in its current form has much less then competitors 6-8 percent and the failure of the Microsoft shows has little understanding of the mobile marketplace.
I don't mean to cause hate I was just giving Windows Phone 7 valid criticism. Please leave your thoughts down below.
Your criticism is wellcomed here. But I gonna criticize your criticism.
CDMA Support will come. 6months after the release of the GSM version. The Iphone is huge and is only on one carrier, a gsm carrier at that, did CMDA hurt it. The first US Android device was the Tmobile G1. It was the only Android device for a while, and again launched on a GSM carrier, but look Android is huge now.. Also the main market MS is aiming at is the Euro/Asia Market which is mostly GSM. So you think about smart move or not?
It cost money? The top selling Android phones are all premium devices. They're sold at $199 on each carrier. If price is a bad, thing how did the Iphone become so popular? Those specs MS chose are to keep a quality control on the hardware so devs can fully utilitize the hardware. If MS used lower specs than devs would have to support the least common denominator and the app won't be as optimized.
Yes WM6.5 wasn't successful, but there are reasons behind that fragmentation and LOW SPECS. The kin was a failure from the beginning since it took away MS resource and time away from WP7. WM6.5 and the Kin didn't have the features that WP7 has, nor did they have the dev support that WP7 is receiving which is what will make it successful.
juliusaugustus said:
My reasons why I think Windows Phone 7 fail. I'm not here to profess my love for Apple, Google, Linux, Open Source or Nokia. Rather I'm here to present simple facts and problems that could be bad for the platform.
Windows Phone 7 lacks CDMA support: Why? So your going to tell many of the thousands of Verizon Wireless, Sprint, US Cellular Users, MetroPCs cellphone users well I'm glad you were excited about Windows Phone 7 but sorry no handset for you.
It Cost's Money: Why would a phone manufacturer pay to use a platform that is very immature, when you could easily make a device that has a mature platform like Android or Symbian without paying a licensing to use the OS.
Hardware Requirements prevent it from reaching low end markets: Well requiring basic thing like Accelerometer with compass, ambient light sensor, proximity sensor, 5mp camera, shutterbutton, and Assisted GPS etc is perfectly acceptable but requiring a 1ghz processor will raise hardware costs and will prevent low end and midrange phone users from buying Windows Phone 7 devices.
Windows Mobile 6.5 has little marketshare and the Microsoft Kin Was a Huge Failure: Why would smarthphone manufacturers want to create a phone with Windows Phone 7 when Windows Mobile 6.5 in its current form has much less then competitors 6-8 percent and the failure of the Microsoft shows has little understanding of the mobile marketplace.
I don't mean to cause hate I was just giving Windows Phone 7 valid criticism. Please leave your thoughts down below.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
My thought is don't judge a thing before it is released...
For your CDMA support point, did Iphone and Android release CDMA phone when they are launched. NO, why? This a basic business or economic knowledge, since WP7 is new product and GSM still the priority. Microsoft has to see how consumers respond to their concept, CDMA definitely will be supported soon.
Yeah...Of course,it cost money, but this is depends how the manufacturers deal with Microsoft. For example, Microsoft might offer a very low price to manufacturers to use their operating system or Manufacturer foresee the future vale of WP7. Furthermore, these big companies got many financial analyzers.This is what you no need worry about it.Lastly, What consumers want to see is the actual price of the handset and the actual values it brought to us.
Regarding the low end market, of course, Microsoft is conducting product-differentiation strategy, thats why they did'n aim the low end market. Furthermore, the required hardwares are to ensure to user experiences. For example, Comparing HTC Tattoo and HTC evo. If you bought Tattoo, most users definitely will blame the android OS but not the hardwares, because not everyone in the world is tech-geek. In contrast, the handset you bought is HTC evo, you definitely will feel that is awesome, no laggy,smooth, fast, great resolution.
Regarding the Microsoft Kin, what I predict is, but not confirmed, Microsoft try to observe the consumer spending behaviour and handphone demand, but not try to earn the profit. For instance, the advertisement fees on KIN, I can say it is extremely low. Furthermore, KIN just open for US market. Lastly, Microsoft can cut down the production of this phone so fast and quick with minimal lost. So, you can see that maybe they already plan to cut down the procution at the beginning. And they are preparing something big at the backstage...which is WP7...
When you comparing WM6 and WP7 is completely wrong, because this two OSes are completely different, in term of UI, functionalities and etc.....Everyone knows that the WM6 market share is extremely low now. In my opinion, this is what Microsoft done wrong, back in few years ago, WM6 still dominate the Smartphone market so called monopoly, and Microsoft didn't realised the threat of new entrants such as android and iOS. In addition, Microsoft focused more on PC OS.
Lastly, I just hope don't judge something before you try or use...
Cheers...
you know there is life outside USA and it's 95% GSM network running world out there...
I think more than the licensing fees and hardware limitations, WP7 will be capped by a messaging and features challenge.
How do you convince the average smartphone user to get a WP7 device instead of an iPhone or Android handset? WP7's UI is different, but it's not necessarily compelling. WP7 might have integrated FB status updates in the People hub, but for full FB functions, you'd have to have an FB app anyway. I'm skeptical that people will be convinced of the alleged "at a glance" experience of WP7 (the WM6 Today screen, for that matter, gave much more info at a glance but had to be hidden by every OEM).
Xbox Live score/achievement integration is the only real differentiator, but that only matters to Xbox gamers, and even when it comes to gaming, the iPhone has WP7 handily beat with several games that have real-time local + online multiplayer support (something WP7 does not support).
Gaming graphics are not going to be a big one either, as the iPhone has dozens of first-rate 3D games, and given that all first-gen WP7 devices will have the aging first-gen Snapdragon chip (MSM8250 @ 1 GHz), the iPhone 3GS, 4, and many Android devices have more powerful GPUs in any case.
Zune integration doesn't appeal to average users (just look at Zune's market share). Average consumers will see WP7 as being similar to Android in that it doesn't sync with iTunes. The alternative may be there (Zune for WP7, Amazon and others for Android), but from an initial purchase standpoint, they're thinking about iTunes or no iTunes.
WP7 has no killer app on the business front either, with such a limited Office experience (Word/Excel/etc. can make only rudimentary changes to documents, compared to much richer 3rd party editing apps on the iPhone), no Outlook sync support (for offices that don't use Exchange), and an Exchange ActiveSync experience not terribly different from the iPhone's or Android's. I think MS' marketing push highlighting Xbox Live integration will also hurt WP7 on the business credibility front.
amb9800 said:
I think more than the licensing fees and hardware limitations, WP7 will be capped by a messaging and features challenge.
How do you convince the average smartphone user to get a WP7 device instead of an iPhone or Android handset? WP7's UI is different, but it's not necessarily compelling. WP7 might have integrated FB status updates in the People hub, but for full FB functions, you'd have to have an FB app anyway. I'm skeptical that people will be convinced of the alleged "at a glance" experience of WP7 (the WM6 Today screen, for that matter, gave much more info at a glance but had to be hidden by every OEM).
Xbox Live score/achievement integration is the only real differentiator, but that only matters to Xbox gamers, and even when it comes to gaming, the iPhone has WP7 handily beat with several games that have real-time local + online multiplayer support (something WP7 does not support).
Gaming graphics are not going to be a big one either, as the iPhone has dozens of first-rate 3D games, and given that all first-gen WP7 devices will have the aging first-gen Snapdragon chip (MSM8250 @ 1 GHz), the iPhone 3GS, 4, and many Android devices have more powerful GPUs in any case.
Zune integration doesn't appeal to average users (just look at Zune's market share). Average consumers will see WP7 as being similar to Android in that it doesn't sync with iTunes. The alternative may be there (Zune for WP7, Amazon and others for Android), but from an initial purchase standpoint, they're thinking about iTunes or no iTunes.
WP7 has no killer app on the business front either, with such a limited Office experience (Word/Excel/etc. can make only rudimentary changes to documents, compared to much richer 3rd party editing apps on the iPhone), no Outlook sync support (for offices that don't use Exchange), and an Exchange ActiveSync experience not terribly different from the iPhone's or Android's. I think MS' marketing push highlighting Xbox Live integration will also hurt WP7 on the business credibility front.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
For the game on windows phone 7,i never worry about this...please go over here and have a lookhttp://www.xbox.com/en-US/live/phone/default.htm...XBOX live integration is not only for XBOX anymore. What Microsoft try to do is create a platform for gamers, like what has bee appeared in iphone,GAME CENTRE and PLUS+...
I think ZUNE integration would be a killer...try the ZUNE software herehttp://www.zune.net/en-us/products/software/download/default.htm
Even, you didn't own a ZUNE, you can use it too. Now ZUNE player already my default music and movie player. It's great and awesome, especially finding album arts, great graphic and etc...Furthermore, what I like is I can play any song in my PC without convert or create a new datastore to store the converted music...and ITUNES did this.omg, it wastes my hard drive spaces.About the market share, same situation again...ZUNE is just for sales in US market. Therefore, can't compare it with itunes store....
However, I might be wrong...Just stay tuned...WP7 gonna launch in this month...
Cheers...
sylau90 said:
For the game on windows phone 7,i never worry about this...please go over here and have a lookhttp://www.xbox.com/en-US/live/phone/default.htm...XBOX live integration is not only for XBOX anymore. What Microsoft try to do is create a platform for gamers, like what has bee appeared in iphone,GAME CENTRE and PLUS+...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
But that's precisely the problem. What does WP7 offer casual phone gamers that the iPhone doesn't? The iPhone has a large existing game library, multiplayer support, more powerful graphics hardware than all WP7 launch phones, and now even some of the score/achievement tracking that Xbox Live offers.
sylau90 said:
I think ZUNE integration would be a killer...try the ZUNE software here http://www.zune.net/en-us/products/software/download/default.htm
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Sure, the Zune service and client are nice, but they haven't been compelling enough to gain any real market share in the last few years. Now that Apple has opened up the App Store a bit, several other streaming / subscription services are now available on the iPhone as well.
I'm not saying WP7 won't offer a nice media and gaming experience-- it's just that in order to succeed, MS needs to present a clear and compelling reason people should buy WP7 phones.
The iPhone delivers the smoothest phone UI, huge app library, solid browsing experience, seamless media experience, and simplicity. Android offers choice of form factor and carrier, great integration with Google services (with lots of people use), and almost-WM6-like openness while still offering a smooth user experience).
What does WP7 bring to the table that the iPhone and Android don't?
amb9800 said:
But that's precisely the problem. What does WP7 offer casual phone gamers that the iPhone doesn't? The iPhone has a large existing game library, multiplayer support, more powerful graphics hardware than all WP7 launch phones, and now even some of the score/achievement tracking that Xbox Live offers.
Sure, the Zune service and client are nice, but they haven't been compelling enough to gain any real market share in the last few years. Now that Apple has opened up the App Store a bit, several other streaming / subscription services are now available on the iPhone as well.
I'm not saying WP7 won't offer a nice media and gaming experience-- it's just that in order to succeed, MS needs to present a clear and compelling reason people should buy WP7 phones.
The iPhone delivers the smoothest phone UI, huge app library, solid browsing experience, seamless media experience, and simplicity. Android offers choice of form factor and carrier, great integration with Google services (with lots of people use), and almost-WM6-like openness while still offering a smooth user experience).
What does WP7 bring to the table that the iPhone and Android don't?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yeah, actually, personally I think that Apple and android marketing strategies are far more strong than Microsoft. Furthermore, What I like Apple provided is the frequency of operating system updates. Therefore, we no need to change the handset frequently in order to get the latest updates or functionalities.
However, the frequency of windows phone 7 updates are unknown, nobody knows. However,in here I can say that. Apple, Microsoft and Android using totally different strategies. Since Microsoft didn't manufature their own handsets, they just sell OS to manaufacturers. Therefore, it's unlikely they will provide the update very often. However for Apple,they do manufacture their own handsets, therefore they can focus more on software updates and applications, because all the profit will just go into their pockets.
What Microsoft prepared are the new LIVE TILES UI which I think is the success part, because currently I'm using latest windows live messenger and and zune software. they are awesome.
However, now everyone is enjoying the Apple and Android banquet...let's see what cuisines Microsoft prepared for us...By the way, Dell Lightning with WP7 is a good and sexy device, gonna get one if there is one.
Live tile is basically a Android widget.
Hubs is where WP7 will shine, can't wait to see 3rd party hubs.
juliusaugustus said:
Windows Phone 7 lacks CDMA support: Why? So your going to tell many of the thousands of Verizon Wireless, Sprint, US Cellular Users, MetroPCs cellphone users well I'm glad you were excited about Windows Phone 7 but sorry no handset for you.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
So does iOS, and that's doing well. Also CDMA will come in time.
juliusaugustus said:
It Cost's Money: Why would a phone manufacturer pay to use a platform that is very immature, when you could easily make a device that has a mature platform like Android or Symbian without paying a licensing to use the OS.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
It's not all that expensive...it's $10 dollars that you pass onto the user anyway. Instead of your phone costing 200-300 dollars to manufacture it costs +10 dollars more. The final price for a phone is 500-600...10 dollars more is hardly something to think about.
Also you have to pay for desktop windows, or pay a very high preimum for OSX + hardware....they're both doing better than linux in the PC world.
juliusaugustus said:
Hardware Requirements prevent it from reaching low end markets: Well requiring basic thing like Accelerometer with compass, ambient light sensor, proximity sensor, 5mp camera, shutterbutton, and Assisted GPS etc is perfectly acceptable but requiring a 1ghz processor will raise hardware costs and will prevent low end and midrange phone users from buying Windows Phone 7 devices.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
So? that hasn't hurt iOS...and this is something that has to do with time...hardware costs become cheaper over time, so eventually these hardware requirements will become cheap to manufacture and it will enter the low end market.
juliusaugustus said:
Windows Mobile 6.5 has little marketshare and the Microsoft Kin Was a Huge Failure: Why would smarthphone manufacturers want to create a phone with Windows Phone 7 when Windows Mobile 6.5 in its current form has much less then competitors 6-8 percent and the failure of the Microsoft shows has little understanding of the mobile marketplace.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Windows Mobile lost market share because they didn't update it as frequently as they should...then they decided to make a paradigm shift and people slowly abandoned windows mobile since there was no future to the OS.
Also, WM still has a decent market share. It's 6-8% in the states and in the teens in Europe according to some recent reports.
juliusaugustus said:
I don't mean to cause hate I was just giving Windows Phone 7 valid criticism. Please leave your thoughts down below.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Everyone is entitled to their opinion, but no one has a crystal ball.
vetvito said:
Live tile is basically a Android widget.
Hubs is where WP7 will shine, can't wait to see 3rd party hubs.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
To some degree...I like widgets in theory, but in practice I always disable them if a phone OS allows me to and go to something more unified like Titanium. The reason I dislike widgets is that there are no design guidelines for them generally so it makes your start page look like crap. Live tiles are widgets done right imo.
How about you Americans ditch that way outdated technology? There's absolutely no merit apart from device-based tie-in to a provider.
vetvito said:
Live tile is basically a Android widget.
Hubs is where WP7 will shine, can't wait to see 3rd party hubs.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
where can I download live tile widget for android?can you give me the name?wanna give it a try...
yea,the hubs....and cloud-based service.you are able to sync almost everything to skydrive.
I'm still shaking the wait and see approach. MS hasn't done much to impress me. Zune player is a skinned windows media player with one or two neat plugins.
If MS follows suit it'll be another great idea poorly executed. Just look at windows for the pc.
MS's big problem is they charge you for crap that is full of security holes, buggy, not up to par in general. Then they expect you to just deal or con you into thinking that it's the cream of the crop when it's really just a polished turd.
Sent from my FroyoEris using XDA App
Tom Servo said:
How about you Americans ditch that way outdated technology? There's absolutely no merit apart from device-based tie-in to a provider.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Actually, CDMA is superior in almost any aspect. UMTS (3G) has much more in common with CDMA than with GSM.
sylau90 said:
where can I download live tile widget for android?can you give me the name?wanna give it a try...
yea,the hubs....and cloud-based service.you are able to sync almost everything to skydrive.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Huh, pick one?
vetvito said:
Huh, pick one?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Sorry,just now I didn't read your sentence clearly. I thought you said there are some widgets work like live tiles...sorry...haha
jonscapri said:
I'm still shaking the wait and see approach. MS hasn't done much to impress me. Zune player is a skinned windows media player with one or two neat plugins.
If MS follows suit it'll be another great idea poorly executed. Just look at windows for the pc.
MS's big problem is they charge you for crap that is full of security holes, buggy, not up to par in general. Then they expect you to just deal or con you into thinking that it's the cream of the crop when it's really just a polished turd.
Sent from my FroyoEris using XDA App
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
To Me that would would be the defination of Apple and Steve Jobs...
Windows Phone 7 lacks CDMA support: Why? So your going to tell many of the thousands of Verizon Wireless, Sprint, US Cellular Users, MetroPCs cellphone users well I'm glad you were excited about Windows Phone 7 but sorry no handset for you.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Well, CDMA support has been confirmed for early 2011. GSM is what over 90% of the world uses so GSM is coming first.
It Cost's Money: Why would a phone manufacturer pay to use a platform that is very immature, when you could easily make a device that has a mature platform like Android or Symbian without paying a licensing to use the OS.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
This platform would be chosen over both of those because it's an OS that has that "it just works" factor that everyone loves about the iPhone. It's smooth, has great games, zune, office, etc...
Hardware Requirements prevent it from reaching low end markets: Well requiring basic thing like Accelerometer with compass, ambient light sensor, proximity sensor, 5mp camera, shutterbutton, and Assisted GPS etc is perfectly acceptable but requiring a 1ghz processor will raise hardware costs and will prevent low end and midrange phone users from buying Windows Phone 7 devices.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
This is a great thing since it means everyone will be able to run the OS and games smoothly. Prices will drop as hardware matures. $199 is pretty standard for those specs and it's a price many are willing to pay.
Windows Mobile 6.5 has little marketshare and the Microsoft Kin Was a Huge Failure: Why would smarthphone manufacturers want to create a phone with Windows Phone 7 when Windows Mobile 6.5 in its current form has much less then competitors 6-8 percent and the failure of the Microsoft shows has little understanding of the mobile marketplace.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Both have almost nothing to do with Windows Phone. Kin was a huge failure for two reasons IMO, it had to have a data plan, and it lacked apps and games. Manufacturers are already dropping Symbian and Windows Mobile 6.5 isn't supported my MS anymore. Manufacturers are behind WP7 because it's a complete refresh. It's different and looks fun.
jonscapri said:
I'm still shaking the wait and see approach. MS hasn't done much to impress me. Zune player is a skinned windows media player with one or two neat plugins.
If MS follows suit it'll be another great idea poorly executed. Just look at windows for the pc.
MS's big problem is they charge you for crap that is full of security holes, buggy, not up to par in general. Then they expect you to just deal or con you into thinking that it's the cream of the crop when it's really just a polished turd.
Sent from my FroyoEris using XDA App
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Zune Player is a bit more than a skinned WMP. It has themes, marketplace, subscriptions service, and it has more features like SmartDJ. Windows 7 is a great OS. I haven't had any problems with performance or security at all.
Microsoft seem to be putting their software onto apples phone, http://wmpoweruser.com/how-to-alienate-your-customers-101/
whats next microsoft office on iOS if this continues then there will be on reason to get a wp7 device, after all, the iphone has a better gpu, far more memory (i live in the uk so 16gb is the max 8gb is the norm) so why would i want to buy a wp7 device again if MS starts doing this???
Because they're a software company?
davidebanks said:
Microsoft seem to be putting their software onto apples phone, http://wmpoweruser.com/how-to-alienate-your-customers-101/
whats next microsoft office on iOS if this continues then there will be on reason to get a wp7 device, after all, the iphone has a better gpu, far more memory (i live in the uk so 16gb is the max 8gb is the norm) so why would i want to buy a wp7 device again if MS starts doing this???
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
why is office on mac os?
why should they not?
WP7 has a different user experience and i like it much more than the android/ios experience....wp7 wouldn`t a good plattform if only the apps are the pros for it.
And why not give iOS users possibility to like office and maybe consider wp7 for their next phone then?
Well, might never happen, cause most applers stay applers...
Sent from my HTC 7 Mozart using Board Express
Geez. Why should you buy a WP7 rather than iPhone? Because the user experience between the two devices are completely different.
Obviously apps are going to be cross platform, Microsoft is after all a software company. Now, one could argue that they should perhaps do what Google does - and wait with releasing their apps on other platforms until they absolutely have to, but this is the iPhone we are talking about - they have to.
Good Point bro!!!
And because in the futur all softwares will be able to run all platform.
0711 said:
why is office on mac os?
why should they not?
WP7 has a different user experience and i like it much more than the android/ios experience....wp7 wouldn`t a good plattform if only the apps are the pros for it.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Why is there iTunes Windows? It is slow by the way.
I am sure that companies do this so that user can have options and maybe pick the companies OS next time.
Peew971 said:
Because they're a software company?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Then why do they not port Halo to PS3 for example? Like you said, they are a software company, and could easily double the revenue. MS are idiots for not porting Xbox games like Halo to other platforms.
Keep in mind that the software developed for the iPhone was a separate team from those working on Wp7.
Also, if iphone users start to use a bunch of microsoft apps, maybe they will think "maybe I should be using a microsoft phone" and then buy a windows phone. Sure it could go the other way as well... but I'm an optimist.
To make money, as what pretty much most if not all paid apps are for.
digger1985 said:
Then why do they not port Halo to PS3 for example? Like you said, they are a software company, and could easily double the revenue. MS are idiots for not porting Xbox games like Halo to other platforms.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Too much work? Maybe they figured that game exclusivity is what drives the console sales.
canadariot2312 said:
Too much work? Maybe they figured that game exclusivity is what drives the console sales.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
is all about the market share, and profit.
canadariot2312 said:
Too much work? Maybe they figured that game exclusivity is what drives the console sales.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
But porting apps over to iOS is not? How come they can't figure out that app exclusivity also drives phone sales.
digger1985 said:
But porting apps over to iOS is not? How come they can't figure out that app exclusivity also drives phone sales.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Because console games are complicated and require certain components to work. Every smartphone uses the same SoC set no matter what OS they run whether it would be snapdragon, omap, a4, etc. The consoles are made differently, the 360 with tri-cores and the ps3 uses something really confusing. Than again, Final Fantasy did appear on the Xbox, but Sony didn't exclusive rights to that game.
I would imagine that it is miles easier for porting apps, or maybe they want to do something like having an app on a certain phone will just run better as oppose to something not native.
kabumm said:
And why not give iOS users possibility to like office and maybe consider wp7 for their next phone then?
Well, might never happen, cause most applers stay applers...
Sent from my HTC 7 Mozart using Board Express
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I didn't . Don't get me wrong, I loved my iPhone (until Apple butchered it with iOS 4), but when I went to go snag an iPhone 4 and got to play with it side by side with the Samsung Focus, the choice was clear--Focus is a MUCH nicer device, with a nicer screen and of course, Windows Phone 7 itself--which makes iOS look antiquated and stale.
That said, I also have a 2010 Macbook Pro 13" which I got purely so I can submit apps to the iOS store, but I can't stand Mac OSX, it's a ****in' turd. So I'm glad the laptop runs Windows 7 nicely enough, LOL.
digger1985 said:
Then why do they not port Halo to PS3 for example? Like you said, they are a software company, and could easily double the revenue. MS are idiots for not porting Xbox games like Halo to other platforms.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
MS also makes the hardware for the XBOX. And they sold the hardware at a loss. Their revenue model was dependent on software attach rates being high on the console. People often choose game consoles based on exclusive games. MS could spend millions marketing Halo because they know that the reason people buy XBOX consoles is so that they could play awesome games. Period. Everything else the XBOX does is just gravy.
People buy smartphones for so many different reasons.
MS can't invest millions of dollars into the promotion and marketing of a single app, because a large portion of customers won't care about it.
Bing and One Note are fighting for mindshare. You can't have a killer phone app if nobody even knows what it is.
The only way to market and advertise how good Bing and One Note could be is by putting it the hands of the most people possible. And for now, that's on the iPhone.
Reflexx1 said:
People buy smartphones for so many different reasons.
MS can't invest millions of dollars into the promotion and marketing of a single app, because a large portion of customers won't care about it.
Bing and One Note are fighting for mindshare. You can't have a killer phone app if nobody even knows what it is.
The only way to market and advertise how good Bing and One Note could be is by putting it the hands of the most people possible. And for now, that's on the iPhone.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
If you are using a smartphone for a single app, than you need to rethink.
I heard that you can get Bing on Android devices as well, although not many people actually want it (seeing that it is a Google phone). I think putting Microsoft software on other OS' is not a bad idea. After all, you see Microsoft everywhere.
Reflexx1 said:
MS also makes the hardware for the XBOX. And they sold the hardware at a loss. Their revenue model was dependent on software attach rates being high on the console. People often choose game consoles based on exclusive games. MS could spend millions marketing Halo because they know that the reason people buy XBOX consoles is so that they could play awesome games. Period. Everything else the XBOX does is just gravy.
People buy smartphones for so many different reasons.
MS can't invest millions of dollars into the promotion and marketing of a single app, because a large portion of customers won't care about it.
Bing and One Note are fighting for mindshare. You can't have a killer phone app if nobody even knows what it is.
The only way to market and advertise how good Bing and One Note could be is by putting it the hands of the most people possible. And for now, that's on the iPhone.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You comment doesn't make any sense. They sell hardware at a loss and make money from games. Keeping Xbox exclusives would make sense if they made money from the hardware. Since they make money from the games, they should be doing everything to port games to other platforms as well.
Thing is, Microsoft is the top player in the console industry - so they don't have to port games to other platforms. The increase in revenue would likely be offset by the increase in development cost to support the PS3 and/or Wii. Not to mention the fact that Microsoft Game Studio titles do drive console sales (I know plenty of people who have bought an Xbox 360 purely because of Halo for example); higher console sales lead to higher revenue (even if they did initially sell hardware at a loss) as people pay for the XBL Gold service, spend money in the Xbox marketplace and purchase Xbox 360 games (for which MS get's a license fee no matter if it's an in-house title or not).
This is pretty much how the printer/ink/toner industry or coffee-pod industry works also. They sell the hardware at little to no profit but you are tied in to buying their ink/toner or coffee-pods for the lifetime of the product. It's actually cheaper for me to purchase a new CLP every so often than it is to buy new toner - when I then sell the old printer online I more or less come out at zero cost.
In the smartphone sector, Apple is the king of the hill and it only makes sense to have their software available. Apps do not drive phone sales; UX (User eXperience) does. Keeping a title exclusive to WP7 makes no sense at all. At the same time, it does not make sense (business wise) to support all possible smartphone platforms out there, only iOS and Android has a valuable marketplace (app wise) so those are the platforms to support - this is why Google hasn't released their apps as official WP7 clients thus far; Windows Phone 7 doesn't have a big enough marketshare that it pays for them to spend development dollars on it. Once the OS gains momentum (if it does) Google will rather quickly release what they have to offer.
All said, I do agree it's painful when "better" software appears for the iPhone rather than their own OS, WP7, but this goes back to the fact Microsoft are so large. There is no single person making decisions, they have COO's and project managers en masse, often trying to out-do eachother or vote other projects down as they step on their own projects toes. Microsoft is filled to the brim with highly competent people, but they operate like a bureaucracy. Ask anyone who's ever worked there and they'll all more or less tell the same story - the layers of hierarchy is killing creative output.
How many times has Microsoft not come out with killer products which has failed miserably in the marketplace because upper management hasn't seen or understood the possibility. Take Media Center for example, it has given the best UX for DVRs for years - still, they never took it to the next level and now it's almost too late. With a lot of luck their embedded Media Center's showcased (in a back-room no less?!) at CES may make a dent in the market, but it's highly unlikely as they missed the boat. GoogleTV, AppleTV, Boxee and a whole lot of other players are now ruling the roost.
That's exactly what they did with the mobile sector also - they had great ideas and were the top players years ago. But they became complacent and stopped innovating. Then other players came along and completely killed them; what was WM's marketshare last year? How much of that was made up of HD2 sales which were re-flashed with Android?
digger1985 said:
Then why do they not port Halo to PS3 for example? Like you said, they are a software company, and could easily double the revenue. MS are idiots for not porting Xbox games like Halo to other platforms.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
This is off topic but why would you want to port Halo to the PS3? Halo is more aimed at muliplayer and as everyone knows Playstation sucks at on-line gaming.
As posted on L337Ware
Function : Provide gaming hub for Windows Phone.
Pros : Many of the features of XBox Live on the 360 are here such as text messaging amongst live subscribers, avatar customization, achievements, and leader boards.
Cons : Well to put it bluntly it's a little bit of a tease. Voice messages and voice chat are clearly absent though well within the capabilities of the phones. The avatar marketplace is a no show. True multi player gaming is pretty much non existence here. No access to videos and additional content available on the 360. No support for themes. No option to choose placement of apps outside of the hub.
Recommendation : You really don't have a choice here. If you want to game on a Windows Phone or even use certain applications that are even mildly related to gaming you will end up dealing with this hub. It's a severely crippled version of the Xbox Live you've come to know and love on the XBox. The glaring lack of functionality to include the lack of multi player titles and social tools inside of the games themselves are pretty unforgivable considering appearances of such features in games on other platforms. In the end I can't say I'm not left simply disappointed at this take on the Xbox Live brand.
L337Ware said:
As posted on L337Ware
Function : Provide gaming hub for Windows Phone.
Pros : Many of the features of XBox Live on the 360 are here such as text messaging amongst live subscribers, avatar customization, achievements, and leader boards.
Cons : Well to put it bluntly it's a little bit of a tease. Voice messages and voice chat are clearly absent though well within the capabilities of the phones. The avatar marketplace is a no show. True multi player gaming is pretty much non existence here. No access to videos and additional content available on the 360. No support for themes. No option to choose placement of apps outside of the hub.
Recommendation : You really don't have a choice here. If you want to game on a Windows Phone or even use certain applications that are even mildly related to gaming you will end up dealing with this hub. It's a severely crippled version of the Xbox Live you've come to know and love on the XBox. The glaring lack of functionality to include the lack of multi player titles and social tools inside of the games themselves are pretty unforgivable considering appearances of such features in games on other platforms. In the end I can't say I'm not left simply disappointed at this take on the Xbox Live brand.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Maybe I got you wrong, but just tap and hold any icon in the games hub will bring up the menu where you can choose to pin it to the homescreen.
Did you just buy your phone? Because we've all been saying that for 6 months now and there are threads about it. Unless you just need traffic...
Sent from my Omnia 7 using XDA Windows Phone 7 App
I've been playing Game Chest: Logic Games Chess against my wife over XBox live for months now. I play my moves on my WP7 and she plays on XBox.com in a browser-based copy of the game.
Isn't that multiplayer XBox-Live? Or am I missing something?
Actually, voice messaging/chat isn't well within the capabilities of the phone. Until Mango is released all network traffic is done thru HTTP which adds way too much lag to use for live voice chatting. Messaging would work, but why re-invent the wheel when full socket support is coming later this year?
The lack of true multiplayer gaming is due to the same reason - http just isn't a viable alternative to raw sockets. The best you can really do at the moment is turn-based games, and they do exist.
Adding content to the home screen is, as someone else already pointed out, as easy as long pressing the title and selecting pin to start.
This is one area where I can truly appreciate peoples comments about this being v1 of a new OS - no other mobile platform has done this already and what's already on WP is pretty damn good considering the current platform limitations.
Remember, all we've seen of Mango at Mix 11 was the developer-centric stuff. MS have yet to announce all the consumer-centric goodies and I bet XBox-live multiplayer realtime will be a part of that.
I'd really like to see a multiplayer Halo game on WP7, controlled by a bluetooth XBox-controller.
The HD7's kickstand would enable use of that while the phone is stood on a table (e.g. when on the train)
How cool?
Jim Coleman said:
I've been playing Game Chest: Logic Games Chess against my wife over XBox live for months now. I play my moves on my WP7 and she plays on XBox.com in a browser-based copy of the game.
Isn't that multiplayer XBox-Live? Or am I missing something?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
It is called turn based not multiplayer
Sent from my Bionix powered Vibrant
lqaddict said:
It is called turn based not multiplayer
Sent from my Bionix powered Vibrant
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Or more accurately "turn based multiplayer" you still have more than one player which makes it multi, even if that isn't quite what you wanted in multiplayer.
Can I just point out that the "hub" isn't the "Xbox Live" hub it's actually called the "Games" hub.
I also want to say that while I tend to agree that it is vital to the success and pricing of Live titles to incorporate more features, I whole heartedly believe that they are coming sooner than later. People continuously call me a fan boy, but I'm more of a realist in the case of this OS, and realize that Rome wasn't built in a day. I see the effort, and if you don't, you're blind. And I see the potential. So much has been said about the lack of updates, and "oh, I'm God, so I demand updates on my schedule in small packets or I'm going to Android" that nobody has realized the reality here. Features, like the ones discussed here, are going to be so tightly integrated it's going to be amazing. Just watching MIX, you see WHY they haven't released small updates yet, and I've said this in other threads. One feature links in 13 different areas, it's all integrated. So we see this with the socket support, and multitasking, and the ability to control background processes... When these are released, I think we are going to see a wave, and I mean WAVE, of new applications which will completely revolutionalize WP...
^ maybe you're right. However, if and when Microsoft introduces true multiplayer gaming in 2012 or later. It will more than likely be for Windows Phone vs Windows Phone only.
vetvito said:
^ maybe you're right. However, if and when Microsoft introduces true multiplayer gaming in 2012 or later. It will more than likely be for Windows Phone vs Windows Phone only.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I disagree, I see no reason why someone on an XBox shouldn't be able to play against someone on a WP7 in realtime. This is going to be killer, MS will not miss this opportunity to outdo iPhone (for which there is no equivalent games console) and Android (closest thing is Xperia Play which is a bit poo).
I don't see any logic in your prediction.
^ maybe you're right. However, if and when Microsoft introduces true multiplayer gaming in 2012 or later. It will more than likely be for Windows Phone vs Windows Phone only.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
<br />
<br />
I disagree, I see no reason why someone on an XBox shouldn't be able to play against someone on a WP7 in realtime. This is going to be killer, MS will not miss this opportunity to outdo iPhone (for which there is no equivalent games console) and Android (closest thing is Xperia Play which is a bit poo).<br />
<br />
I don't see any logic in your prediction.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yeah they WP with Kinnect. However my point is in the mobile world. WP vs iPhone or WP vs Android, as we already have iPhone vs Android games(they're awesome).
Since the Xbox Live brand is involved I'm sure the chances of WP vs anything not Microsoft related are slim to none.
If you haven't noticed 360 users haven't been running in droves to purchase these phones. The average 360 user isn't of contracting age.
vetvito said:
Yeah they WP with Kinnect. However my point is in the mobile world. WP vs iPhone or WP vs Android, as we already have iPhone vs Android games(they're awesome).
Since the Xbox Live brand is involved I'm sure the chances of WP vs anything not Microsoft related are slim to none.
If you haven't noticed 360 users haven't been running in droves to purchase these phones. The average 360 user isn't of contracting age.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I have to disagree there, especially considering that playing online on a 360 console actually costs money, and usually requires you be an adult... I have no idea where this misconception comes from that all Live players are kids, or even that half of them are... I'm assuming from people who have never played a day online.
I also don't see this phone as just "Live" services, there are other games that will go cross-platform... Has Apple developed a game that interacted with Android users? How about Google with iPhone? All the games are third party, aren't they? The Live games will interact with other Live games, obviously, I don't see why there would be any surprise or negative feedback there... But I do see third-party, real time multiplayer coming sooner than 2012, I wouldn't be surprised if a lot of them get released once Mango goes live, as they would have been developing for a few months by then.
I don't get why people are so negative about things, as it is now, developers have pushed the available apis to their limits, why would that suddenly stop with a larger user base and greater access? I expect these sorts of post from certain biased users, but not users that appear to have brains most of the time.
I would also take the time here to note that if Google, or any other random developer, released a brand new desktop OS at this moment, version 1.0, would the same retards in this forum who are so Anti-Microsoft/Pro-Google be quick to say "this is trash because it doesn't live up to Windows 7 of today" or would they be hypocrites and label it a first release and state it has more features than Windows 95 did? Because I guarantee you it would be the latter, as we saw when Android was released in its G1 form far behind iOS.
Version 1 where is it? Please show me version 1. Get over it, this is a continuation.
I'm not being negative, just realistic.
How much do you want to bet Microsoft wont allow third party multiplayer games? They will have to go through Xbox LIVE.
Xbox LIVE users are different than the average 360 user/owner. Matter of fact I haven't met a person on Xbox LIVE who knows what WP7 is. Get on there and ask people yourself.
vetvito said:
Version 1 where is it? Please show me version 1. Get over it, this is a continuation.
I'm not being negative, just realistic.
How much do you want to bet Microsoft wont allow third party multiplayer games? They will have to go through Xbox LIVE.
Xbox LIVE users are different than the average 360 user/owner. Matter of fact I haven't met a person on Xbox LIVE who knows what WP7 is. Get on there and ask people yourself.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I wasn't specifically talking about you, but this isn't a continuation, nowhere near it, and as long as you guys continue to paint it as one, you'll have ignorant, biased opinions...
And you're making assumptions, they allow games like AlphaJax right now to utilize what they can, I don't see why they wouldn't in the future. You guys create these scenarios where a lot of users come, think you know what you're talking about, and believe this bs... I can't keep track of how many people said that most of the features announced for Mango would take 2 years to implement...
A lot of people had no idea what Android was until Verizon joined the party, and even still, 8 out of 10 people will call any Android phone a Droid, and tell you that their Droid Does... Expecting overnight success isn't realistic, and neither is making assumptions when you have no idea what you're talking about, or have any type of track record to go off of...
I also only brought up 360 because you made the point of the user age... I don't see many people buying it just because of that from a platform standpoint because this isn't called "Xbox Live Phone" it's called Windows phone... I know a crap load of Live players who own Macs...
By the end of this year, I think we'll be looking at these devices entirely different. Both from a gaming standpoint and functional standpoint. Though, the phone is more than functional 99% of the time for me.
What number comes after 6?
I'm ignorant though.
vetvito said:
How much do you want to bet Microsoft wont allow third party multiplayer games? They will have to go through Xbox LIVE.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Why would they not allow it? They allow you to make them today and will obviously continue to do so once there is raw socket support. They are however rolling out more support for indie developers to gain access to XBL as well, so I wouldn't be surprised to see more and more of the great games we have today become XBL games with achievements and whatnot - this does command a minimum price of $2.99 however.
vetvito said:
Xbox LIVE users are different than the average 360 user/owner. Matter of fact I haven't met a person on Xbox LIVE who knows what WP7 is. Get on there and ask people yourself.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Really? Don't know who you've been speaking to, but everyone I've gamed with knows very well what it is. Hell, you must be a real ignorant bastard not to know it considering they've been showing loads of WP commercials on the 360 dashboard since launch.
--edit--
Oh and come on, WP7 is obviously a v1. Sure, it's built ontop of the same old WinCE kernel (well, an updated one) but it has absolutely nothing in common with the previous Windows Mobile versions. You couldn't even take a native WM6 app and run it on WP7 without heavy modification - and that's not just because of the locked down nature of WP.
Well done guys, insults are the way to go. I wonder more and more how old people on this forum are.
Sent from my Omnia 7 using XDA Windows Phone 7 App
vetvito said:
What number comes after 6?
I'm ignorant though.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
WP7 is version 1.
Just under 2 weeks now .
http://www.zdnet.com/blog/microsoft/microsoft-slates-mango-vip-unveiling-for-may-24-in-new-york/9389
does the developers kit mean that develpoers will get mango on their wp7, or they can only make wp7 apps? As I can sign up to become a developer for free due to dreamspark?
andoridkiller said:
does the developers kit mean that develpoers will get mango on their wp7, or they can only make wp7 apps? As I can sign up to become a developer for free due to dreamspark?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I doubt it. I expect it'll just run in the emulator.
Also, you have to submit an app if you're signing up through DreamSpark to get your identity verified by GeoTrust.
Casey
I'm excited to see what they announce. All the features leaked over the last few days are already nice (plus all the Developer goodies announced at MIX), but you know thats just the tip of the iceberg, and they will probably have one or two major things to announce as well.
Probably the best thing they can do right now. The OS is dead until Mango/Nokia. When Nokia devices hit with Mango I expect to see a huge spike in sales and development.
Casey_boy said:
I doubt it. I expect it'll just run in the emulator.
Also, you have to submit an app if you're signing up through DreamSpark to get your identity verified by GeoTrust.
Casey
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yes Developers will get an image to install on there test phones this has been stated several times including at mix11.
vetvito said:
Probably the best thing they can do right now. The OS is dead until Mango/Nokia. When Nokia devices hit with Mango I expect to see a huge spike in sales and development.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
The OS is far from dead, and a steady marketshare despite the disgusting drop in Windows Mobile sales shows that. Microsoft is basically countering the complete loss of Windows Mobile market sales with Windows Phone, which can't be an easy task, to be honest. People don't see this. And all the reports I've read show this, aside the biased blogs which look like they were written by users on this site.
But, I do agree with the huge spike coming with Mango and Nokia. Microsoft has developed a steady foundation where many developers have seen the ease in development for the platform. Therefore, once the available apis are there, I see them all joining the platform. After all, they're here to make money, and the more OS platforms they're on, the more potential they have.
Honestly, the phone is fine as it is now, it does everything the real public wants, aside from chat and Words With Friends -.- and things like AIM are basically dead to the American teenage market, where FB Chat has taken over and Skype. Come Mango, the "missing" features will flood in, and with Verizon's marketing history, and Nokia's dominance, I think the outlook is significantly more positive than some on here would lead you to believe.
This is Microsoft, they don't lose.
FiyaFleye said:
Honestly, the phone is fine as it is now, it does everything the real public wants
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
No it's not, most people have issues with Live Tiles and Notifications and that's a big deal. When you get an eBay "outbid" notification after the auction is over you would agree it is totally pointless.
aside from chat and Words With Friends -.- and things like AIM are basically dead to the American teenage market, where FB Chat has taken over and Skype.
This is Microsoft, they don't lose.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
To be fair AlphaJax is just as good as Words With Friends .
You're totally wrong on AIM, there are enough people who can't be bothered to go through facebook to chat with their friends. Have you seen how popular BBM is? Not to mention WLM and Google Talk.
Come Mango, the "missing" features will flood in, and with Verizon's marketing history, and Nokia's dominance, I think the outlook is significantly more positive than some on here would lead you to believe.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Partly agree, Mango will make it a great OS and that's the OS that will sell people, not Verizon (which is US only) or Nokia, although they will help.
This is Microsoft, they don't lose.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I'm a MS fan too but can't occult Windows Mobile 6.5, Zune or Kin as overall failures.
The problem with Skype isn't really its existence or lack thereof. It's the fact that major players like Google and Microsoft do not have decent mobile clients. Windows Live Messenger supports VoIP and Video Calling. So did Google Talk and look how long it took Google to add it into Android. I'm unsure if Micorsoft is adding this in Mango, but we don't know all the details.
Read reviews online. Most people who post them want Skype for the Video Calling and Free Skype to Skype VoIP. With the proliferation of Smartphones these days, in many cases it's just dumb to pay Skype anything when you can have your friends install the app and do it all for free, Lol.
Google and Microsoft have the capacity to offer those same services with a better user experience. They just need to get off of their asses and do it. Skype hysteria is completely due to services like WLM and Google Talk sucking on smartphones.
Then again, Skype would probably file AntiTrust suits against them if they did that
I've never understood people who were all "SKYPE SKYPE SKYPE!" when they really should be saying "fix your fking mobile clients so we don't have to install this boring battery hogging app that restricts functionality on various platforms because they have carrier deals" and things like that.
Peew971 said:
No it's not, most people have issues with Live Tiles and Notifications and that's a big deal. When you get an eBay "outbid" notification after the auction is over you would agree it is totally pointless.
To be fair AlphaJax is just as good as Words With Friends .
You're totally wrong on AIM, there are enough people who can't be bothered to go through facebook to chat with their friends. Have you seen how popular BBM is? Not to mention WLM and Google Talk.
Partly agree, Mango will make it a great OS and that's the OS that will sell people, not Verizon (which is US only) or Nokia, although they will help.
Unnecessary fanboyism. I'm a MS fan too but can't occult Windows Mobile 6.5, Zune or Kin as overall failures.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
People is very inclusive. I had to intentionally break my Live Tiles for them to stop working. But, I do agree Push Notifications needs work, however, this is not a vital piece of the phone, and none of the major apps even use it. I do get extremely irritated when Microsoft can't communicate with my phone and it returns back to the server that I can't be reached... It should continue to try... Which is unfortunate as it takes Rowi & such to provide fixes, which shows its possible to make them more reliable for now. Second, BBM isn't AIM, I would argue that GTalk or whatever the hell it is would be more important than AIM, and there are already alternates. I believe AIM is the only major player with no support, third party included, on the OS, but you need to understand that THIS generation of American teenagers relies more on FB & Skype/Oovoo than I did on AIM 10 years ago... AlphaJax may be as good, but it doesn't have the cross-platform ability of WWF, nor its popularity. Potential iPhone customers want to see the name WWF, and Angry Birds, not Alpha Jax and Chicks&Vixens...
For you to downplay the Verizon inclusion, or Nokia deal is ridiculous tho, and we usually agree issues from what I've seen. Verizon singlehandedly blew Android up. ALONE, Lol. They made Motorola relevant again too. Verizon and AT&T jumping on the WP7 bandwagon is important, extremely. Microsoft is an American company, and as we saw with Xbox, their American success determines how hard they pursue the rest of the world. WP7 MUST be a success here, and I believe it will be... Android is also in trouble, lots of it, legal wise from what I keep reading.
Fanboyism? WinMo was a success until the market changed lol, a huge success. They just didn't want to jump into the consumer market the way they should have, but WinMo was huge... So huge that it's still being developed for on here, when it's pretty useless when it comes to the average consumer. Kin was a failure because I'm almost positive they were using it as a guinea pig for their cloud services... Which sucks for those customers. The Zune wasn't a failure either, they just didn't back it with the necessary advertising. But as far as a product, it was extremely successful, and it most cases, better than the iPod... And it led the way to this OS...
Microsoft has a history of pouring money into things it wants to succeed until it gets it right... I just see that. Apple got "lucky" with the iPhone, and they've run with it. And the iPhone has singlehandedly made they cool enough to own all of their products. But I see Microsoft's attempt to integrate everything now as a "we'll own these markets if it kills us" approach.
FiyaFleye said:
People is very inclusive. I had to intentionally break my Live Tiles for them to stop working. But, I do agree Push Notifications needs work, however, this is not a vital piece of the phone, and none of the major apps even use it. I do get extremely irritated when Microsoft can't communicate with my phone and it returns back to the server that I can't be reached... It should continue to try... Which is unfortunate as it takes Rowi & such to provide fixes, which shows its possible to make them more reliable for now. Second, BBM isn't AIM, I would argue that GTalk or whatever the hell it is would be more important than AIM, and there are already alternates. I believe AIM is the only major player with no support, third party included, on the OS, but you need to understand that THIS generation of American teenagers relies more on FB & Skype/Oovoo than I did on AIM 10 years ago... AlphaJax may be as good, but it doesn't have the cross-platform ability of WWF, nor its popularity. Potential iPhone customers want to see the name WWF, and Angry Birds, not Alpha Jax and Chicks&Vixens...
For you to downplay the Verizon inclusion, or Nokia deal is ridiculous tho, and we usually agree issues from what I've seen. Verizon singlehandedly blew Android up. ALONE, Lol. They made Motorola relevant again too. Verizon and AT&T jumping on the WP7 bandwagon is important, extremely. Microsoft is an American company, and as we saw with Xbox, their American success determines how hard they pursue the rest of the world. WP7 MUST be a success here, and I believe it will be... Android is also in trouble, lots of it, legal wise from what I keep reading.
Fanboyism? WinMo was a success until the market changed lol, a huge success. They just didn't want to jump into the consumer market the way they should have, but WinMo was huge... So huge that it's still being developed for on here, when it's pretty useless when it comes to the average consumer. Kin was a failure because I'm almost positive they were using it as a guinea pig for their cloud services... Which sucks for those customers. The Zune wasn't a failure either, they just didn't back it with the necessary advertising. But as far as a product, it was extremely successful, and it most cases, better than the iPod... And it led the way to this OS...
Microsoft has a history of pouring money into things it wants to succeed until it gets it right... I just see that. Apple got "lucky" with the iPhone, and they've run with it. And the iPhone has singlehandedly made they cool enough to own all of their products. But I see Microsoft's attempt to integrate everything now as a "we'll own these markets if it kills us" approach.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
- Teenagers might rely more on facebook but remember teenagers aren't the target from what MS stated last year. IM might still be the best option.
- Agreed on WWF, didn't know it was cross-platform. Don't get me started on Xbox Live.
- Maybe it's best to focus on other territories just as much, if not more than on the US. Verizon isn't in Europe but Android are still selling like hot cakes.
The key IMO is to have the best possible OS and as many carriers onboard as possible. I'm not downplaying Verizon, just stating doing well in the US isn't the end of the road (e.g. the Xbox 360 is behind the PS3 in worldwide sales).
The Nokia deal is great but many people have stayed with Nokia for Symbian (oddly enough) so not all users will carry over to WP7.
Let the OS do the talking is what I say, more than Verizon and Nokia.
- Yes Winmo was a success, I specifically said Winmo 6.5 which was an attempt to stay relevant in a changing market. That didn't work.
Zune was/is a great player (I went through 2) but it wasn't a success, which was the point I was arguing.
Kin was a failure, I'm sure they believed in it. Just like Zune it can bring great features to WP7 though.
So you must admit that your "MS never lose" was a bit pushing it, I'm sure other people can find other examples.
I'm just as optimistic as you are probably for WP7, it's just that I don't see it as a walk in the park at all.
you need to understand that THIS generation of American teenagers relies more on FB & Skype/Oovoo than I did on AIM 10 years ago... AlphaJax may be as good, but it doesn't have the cross-platform ability of WWF, nor its popularity. Potential iPhone customers want to see the name WWF, and Angry Birds, not Alpha Jax and Chicks&Vixens...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Is this a teenage phone? You may be on to something here.
For you to downplay the Verizon inclusion, or Nokia deal is ridiculous tho, and we usually agree issues from what I've seen. Verizon singlehandedly blew Android up. ALONE, Lol.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
So verizon made a ton of different Androids, and sold them around the world to zillions of people. Don't let a single ad campaign fool you. You have to forget about HTC, Samsung, and Motorola to say that. I can guarantee you, it won't happen for WP.
Microsoft is an American company, and as we saw with Xbox, their American success determines how hard they pursue the rest of the world. WP7 MUST be a success here, and I believe it will be... Android is also in trouble, lots of it, legal wise from what I keep reading.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
OMG, the Xbox crutch. Stop it. Microsoft is a consumer failure, and you guys rely on this one product to measure its success.
Also, you know Oracle had to drop 98% of their claims against Android.
Fanboyism? WinMo was a success until the market changed lol, a huge success.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
A huge success? Please stop it. The sales have never been great. The HD2 is the highest selling Microsoft phone EVER.
Kin was a failure because I'm almost positive they were using it as a guinea pig for their cloud services... Which sucks for those customers.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
No, the company you praise called Verizon made Kin fail. It had a high ass smartphone data plan.
The Zune wasn't a failure either, they just didn't back it with the necessary advertising. But as far as a product, it was extremely successful, and it most cases, better than the iPod... And it led the way to this OS...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
It was better than the iPod, it just didn't do as much as the iPod. Zune wasn't a success either. Stop it. Everyone knows it wasn't.
Microsoft has a history of pouring money into things it wants to succeed until it gets it right... I just see that.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Name 4 consumer products that succeeded from Microsoft. Products that don't involve another corporation or OEM, Microsoft consumer products. I'll start
1. Xbox
2. ?
3. ?
4. ?
Apple got "lucky" with the iPhone, and they've run with it. And the iPhone has singlehandedly made they cool enough to own all of their products. But I see Microsoft's attempt to integrate everything now as a "we'll own these markets if it kills us" approach.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
They got lucky with the iPhone? Sure my friend, lets not go there.
Peew971 said:
- Teenagers might rely more on facebook but remember teenagers aren't the target from what MS stated last year. IM might still be the best option.
- Agreed on WWF, didn't know it was cross-platform. Don't get me started on Xbox Live.
- Maybe it's best to focus on other territories just as much, if not more than on the US. Verizon isn't in Europe but Android are still selling like hot cakes.
The key IMO is to have the best possible OS and as many carriers onboard as possible. I'm not downplaying Verizon, just stating doing well in the US isn't the end of the road (e.g. the Xbox 360 is behind the PS3 in worldwide sales).
The Nokia deal is great but many people have stayed with Nokia for Symbian (oddly enough) so not all users will carry over to WP7.
Let the OS do the talking is what I say, more than Verizon and Nokia.
- Yes Winmo was a success, I specifically said Winmo 6.5 which was an attempt to stay relevant in a changing market. That didn't work.
Zune was/is a great player (I went through 2) but it wasn't a success, which was the point I was arguing.
Kin was a failure, I'm sure they believed in it. Just like Zune it can bring great features to WP7 though.
So you must admit that your "MS never lose" was a bit pushing it, I'm sure other people can find other examples.
I'm just as optimistic as you are probably for WP7, it's just that I don't see it as a walk in the park at all.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
XBL is hindered by the lack of APIs, we both know that. We're going to see multiplayer the second Mango lands, I'll bet anything on that. Also, the OS can do all it wants, but when HTC and such put horrible quality cameras, and hardware on these devices, it's going to hinder their sales. I've been fortunate, but others haven't in terms of cameras and such.
About Android, they're about to have that success because of their explosion here though, and that's my point. Microsoft needs to succeed on its turf before it can succeed everywhere, same as Google did with Verizon.
And the PS3 might be ahead in lifetime sales, but my point is that now the 360 is the #1 platform afaik... And has been for a significant while now. And like I said about the Kin, I don't think they ever cared about the Kin, just what it offered, and how they could test their cloud services... At least it seemed like it. they released the Kin after development of WP started... Which leads me to believe they weren't in it for the long run.
vetvito said:
Probably the best thing they can do right now. The OS is dead until Mango/Nokia. When Nokia devices hit with Mango I expect to see a huge spike in sales and development.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
It's not dead. Not by a long shot..
WP7 has slow adoption rates but it's doing fine. The general public who buys most of this stuff has no idea Mango exists or what it would do for them.
WP7 is a great, feature rich, easy to use and elegant OS. It has what it needs to excel it just needs more advertising and some kick ass hardware like Android has been getting.
Updates like Mango only appeal to the very small number of enthusiasts such as ourselves.
It depends on how you define dead. Form a development perspective it's dead. There are too many things you simply can't do on the platform, nad there are too many apps that are impossible to port due to the lack of APIs. From that point of view it's dead. Mango will change that. Mango will also make the platform more desireable because it won't be seen as a dead end for so many people, as WP7 currently is with it's limitations and lack of top/useful apps.
If you mean dead by ceasing to exist than that's not possible, not even Windows Mobile is dead yet, if going by that definition.
But there cannot be much momentum for WP7 until Mango hits. The OS was released in a state that simply doesn't allow it at the moment.
If you look at WP7 and Mango the way Microsoft looks at them: two completely different OS releases instead of a base OS and an update or SP, then the average consumer who brought these devices and were forced (using the term loosely) to use it in its current state should be pretty pissed, IMO. I think Microsoft would have struggled to sell half the devices they did if they told users up front they'd have to wait a year for a decent feature update before it RTM'd...
The way they view it, trying to justify the current state of the OS with Mango is like trying to justify RTM Vista using Windows 7 as a rebuttal. It just doesn't work, especially when users have months of this clunky user experience to look forward to before they get an update, and lord knows how to carriers will handle that...
N8ter said:
The problem with Skype isn't really its existence or lack thereof. It's the fact that major players like Google and Microsoft do not have decent mobile clients. Windows Live Messenger supports VoIP and Video Calling. So did Google Talk and look how long it took Google to add it into Android. I'm unsure if Micorsoft is adding this in Mango, but we don't know all the details.
Read reviews online. Most people who post them want Skype for the Video Calling and Free Skype to Skype VoIP. With the proliferation of Smartphones these days, in many cases it's just dumb to pay Skype anything when you can have your friends install the app and do it all for free, Lol.
Google and Microsoft have the capacity to offer those same services with a better user experience. They just need to get off of their asses and do it. Skype hysteria is completely due to services like WLM and Google Talk sucking on smartphones.
Then again, Skype would probably file AntiTrust suits against them if they did that
I've never understood people who were all "SKYPE SKYPE SKYPE!" when they really should be saying "fix your fking mobile clients so we don't have to install this boring battery hogging app that restricts functionality on various platforms because they have carrier deals" and things like that.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
windows Live/Massanger whatever you call it will be built in/integrated in the contacts/people tile.
MS is trying to buy Skype, or joint venture, so u will see video call on WP7.5 devices...
N8ter said:
It depends on how you define dead. Form a development perspective it's dead. There are too many things you simply can't do on the platform, nad there are too many apps that are impossible to port due to the lack of APIs.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Last time I checked, Marketplace was doing just fine for a platform that's 6 months old. I agree there are gaps in functionality and things devs can't do, but does it warrant the term "dead" really?
N8ter said:
But there cannot be much momentum for WP7 until Mango hits. The OS was released in a state that simply doesn't allow it at the moment.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Mango schmango. WP7 won't have any serious marketshare until it gets dozens of devices and worldwide distribution. Even if it were the most functional thing in the world it would still need it, otherwise it's doomed to linger in the WebOS type of marketshare limbo.
Oh, and a couple of "flagships", too.
N8ter said:
If you look at WP7 and Mango the way Microsoft looks at them: two completely different OS releases instead of a base OS and an update or SP, then the average consumer who brought these devices and were forced (using the term loosely) to use it in its current state should be pretty pissed, IMO.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Why should I be pissed, sorry?
vetvito said:
Probably the best thing they can do right now. The OS is dead until Mango/Nokia. When Nokia devices hit with Mango I expect to see a huge spike in sales and development.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Waiting for this but i'm not holding my breath. With their track record, this Mango update could get released waaay late 2011 or early 2012. Maybe when the flagship Nokia/WP7 comes out with better specs than what is present (3year? old specs), and IF they expand their marketplace/zune support to include my country, with way better apps and games that are worth the Xbox Live logo ( Lunar Lander anyone?) i'll consider picking one up again (gave my HTC Trophy to my sister).
Seriously, this is just a preview. Stop complaining people.
We are going to have everything we asked for!
Messenger, Skype, Twitter and Facebook inside our OS like no other.
Better push notifications, faster, more reliable.
API, API, API and more API.
IE9
Multi Task for third apps(!!!!!!!!!!!)
New languages, dictionarys, markets..
And bug corrections.
What more do you want? Microsoft wouldn't announce something like "Oh, and it download embedded images from email. It's magical!".
Or you expect they to mention something stupid like that?
Wait and try the OS by yourself.
Usually, I'm complaining about MS and their failures. But.. Seriously, they're doing everything fine about Mango. At least, until now.
I bet someone will say "oh, it doesn't have video chat". Screw it. No one uses it. Even the 'Almighty' Android doesn't have it. Guess just now, and just for Nexus S. No one really care. It's just to say "I have it!".
Stop complaining for nothing. Microsoft is doing great!
vetvito said:
^ I can agree with that. Early adopters will be the one's screwed over.
I also believe Nokia will be the only maker of WP devices, if not the only, they will be the most dominant. That is if, they stop their other projects.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Why? I think the samsung devices are doing fine, once mango has more languages a new major part of the world will start buying the devices. Right now if a phone is not in your native language a lot of people are not interested thus it is not marketed in those countries (half of europe). Imagine these markets which are very wealthy countries (some of the most wealthy countries actually) start to buy wp7. In these countries the design of the software is very important, maybe even more important than the features and if HTC will also design good devices along with Samsung I think they will stay. The people who've seen my phone asked me what it was and if I like it. I say yes, however native language support + multitasking + next level apps (all comming with mango) will really make it a superb platform.
Most guys here are phone tweakers, dont forget the majority of the customers are not like us and if they see some well designed apps like IMDB they are sold.
The reality at the moment is no native language for those countries, buggy features because of the system locale settings, no marketing/advertisement, no possibility yet to BUY apps (yes this is very important for a smartphone). Once Mango drops the word will spread and it will surely count. Samsung who sells a lot of its devices on these markets will see boosts in sales, I can see people being done with android or BB or iphone after those years of the same lay-out, so a change to WP7 will be very logical and if all desired features will be there people will enjoy it and tell their friends,
A few minutes ago on twitter:
@LazywormApps
Today is a very sad day for us. We apologize for this unfortunate situation and promise to make it up to you all...
http://lazywormapps.com/
http://lazywormapps.com/letterToCustomers.pdf
http://www.wpcentral.com/metrotube-be-discontinued-after-january-1st
Honestly, that sucks ****. One of the best and outstanding apps for Windows Phone is gonna be pulled from the marketplace. Let me get this straight.. I don't blame the developers (LazywormApps), since they decided to follow the terms of service that apply to Youtube.com. I blame Google for not providing the appropriate API or at least allow the use of workarounds.
It think this is a pretty good reason to show our support, even though I'm currently now sure about how exactly. Maybe turn to Google support, or Microsoft? Or whatever. I'm sure if enough users help, things could change.
Pretty ****ed up :/
I wonder if google will ever release more APIs...
its a real shame
That sucks, Windows Phone gets a bit less appealing everyday.
Sent from my Samsung Omnia 7 using XDA Windows Phone 7 App
Peew971 said:
That sucks, Windows Phone gets a bit less appealing everyday.
Sent from my Samsung Omnia 7 using XDA Windows Phone 7 App
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I wonder if we are so app-centric in a people-centric UI!
What a lame argument, you can't get the experience you get from MetroTube without an app. Apps are important, those saying otherwise are just lunatics.
Sent from my Samsung Omnia 7 using XDA Windows Phone 7 App
Google are the reason they are pulling it:
“Unfortunately, Google has refused to allow Microsoft’s new Windows Phones to access this YouTube metadata in the same way that Android phones and iPhones do. As a result, Microsoft’s YouTube “app” on Windows Phones is basically just a browser displaying YouTube’s mobile Web site, without the rich functionality offered on competing phones. Microsoft is ready to release a high quality YouTube app for Windows Phone. We just need permission to access YouTube in the way that other phones already do, permission Google has refused to provide.”
http://www.winrumors.com/microsoft-our-windows-phone-7-youtube-app-sucks-because-of-google/
Peew971 said:
What a lame argument, you can't get the experience you get from MetroTube without an app. Apps are important, those saying otherwise are just lunatics.
Sent from my Samsung Omnia 7 using XDA Windows Phone 7 App
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
It's in no a way an argument! However the fact that absence of an app made it so unappealing should definitely be classified as app-centric user who knowing that the OS lacks apps should have bought an android in first place!
I wonder why metrotube did not mention Google Restriction on MetaData and said HD as the reason
And if that is so How did the App work ?
wpxbox said:
I wonder why metrotube did not mention Google Restriction on MetaData and said HD as the reason
And if that is so How did the App work ?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
If my memory serve me right, they used some undocumented api and some TOC violation to make HD video available to WP7, I didn't keep the source link, maybe someone here can help?
Lol that's my luck.....i just purchased it two days ago! I've typically just used the browser but heard so many good things about the app I figured I'd give it a shot. What a shame because it actually is a very nice app.
We want metrotube even without HQ/HD streaming!
Snake. said:
We want metrotube even without HQ/HD streaming!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Go ahead and tell @LazywormApps
That's sucks, and I paid for this app.
Oh well, supertube will suffice. Lets blame Google.
I can't believe Google is STILL blocking wp7 from this. I really want to know why they are doing this, and even more how they are allowed to block only a single platform.
dtboos said:
I can't believe Google is STILL blocking wp7 from this. I really want to know why they are doing this, and even more how they are allowed to block only a single platform.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
What makes me wonder is the fact that there's a very well working YouTube app for XBox 360. So why is the API officially available for THIS specific Microsoft platform, but not for Windows Phone?
It could just come down to not wanting the competition to have a feature that you use as a major selling point. The Xbox platform doesn't compete with Android, but WP7 does.
With iOS, the contract between YouTube and Apple was established before there was an Android platform (and, I suspect, before the Google acquisition of YouTube was completed). But, since the contract is already in place, I suspect that Google's hands are tied on that front (at least until the terms of the contract expire, if ever).
RoboDad said:
It could just come down to not wanting the competition to have a feature that you use as a major selling point. The Xbox platform doesn't compete with Android, but WP7 does.
With iOS, the contract between YouTube and Apple was established before there was an Android platform (and, I suspect, before the Google acquisition of YouTube was completed). But, since the contract is already in place, I suspect that Google's hands are tied on that front (at least until the terms of the contract expire, if ever).
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
+1
I have a samsung focus and an HTC flyer. I am amazed to see heavenly lag free browsing, no force closes, tightest social integration, apps managemnt with games going to Xbox category, all photos in one place, office, skydrive, etc etc on my focus. Mango is plain awesome. As for phone, I don't need an android phone after seeing the performance of my flyer vis a vis my focus. Though flyer is not bad in performance, I just wish there were mango tablets available in market. I will definitely go for a mango or tango tablet once it is available in market.
That's why Google is afraid of this new age os.
Sent from my HTC Flyer P510e using Tapatalk
anyone tried supertube
can anybody try to capture the application? i think that could be the best thing. So in the future we could just deploy this app with a xap deployer.