Develop Bugs

Don't like where Windows Phone 7 Series is headed? Let's do something about it!

Please sign, thank you.
http://www.petitionspot.com/petitions/7seriesphoneboycott/
Petition Message:
I'll make this short and to the point.
Windows Mobile:
Function: Extremely capable OS
Form: Dense, outdated user interface.
Windows Phone 7 Series:
Function: OS crippled by a lack of basic features
Form: Intuitive, modern user interface.
Microsoft has selected form over functionality and that is a decision we can not and will not support with our own monetary funds. Microsoft, you're decision to neglect basic features such as...
- an open file system accessible to the user
- copy + paste
- true multitasking
- true customization
... has resulted in our collective decision to boycott all
future Windows Phones until the above issues are addressed.

signed
also, if you can add:
no DRM

Also, post your negative thoughts on your Twitter accounts with the #wp7s along with it. Windows' accounts (the developers, Windows Phone account, Windows account) has been making posts with #wp7s in them so that readers can search for all related posts. If they are mostly negative, the developers are bound to notice.

I sent a message to wmpoweruser.com to see if they can post a link on their main page. I hope they come through.

Just postimg so this doesn't get lost in the forum. Please sign the petition.
Dwight2001

Signed with the hopes Microsoft adds some of those features later. But I'll still purchase either way honestly.

Signed. Let's just hope they will start listening to us

Let's face it, corporations only listen to the money. There's the geek crowd, then there's the mainstream crowd. The fattest pockets win.

My idea of "doing something about it" involves changing platforms. Good luck though. I hear MS loves customer feedback. As nice as Win7 is (My name is fortunz, and Win7 was my idea -- 4 years ago), it's a tech generation later than it should have been.

you know those windows 7 commercials where the actors and actress explain some nifty features like the task bar and stuff, then at the end of the commercial they proudly say "windows 7 was my idea".
It really contradicts what they are doing with windows phone 7 series in which cases, none of what they are doing are what users would want from winmo phones

klasital said:
you know those windows 7 commercials where the actors and actress explain some nifty features like the task bar and stuff, then at the end of the commercial they proudly say "windows 7 was my idea".
It really contradicts what they are doing with windows phone 7 series in which cases, none of what they are doing are what users would want from winmo phones
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I disagree. Too many people saying MS is stupid for this don't have the ability to step outside of their own little box and view the situation as it actually is. too many people think because THEY feel a certian way, it's how the rest of the world feels too.
I agree with many users here. I hate what I know of WP7.. I probably wont buy it... I totally see android in my future.. BUT... here is a little perspective.
The Iphone JUST got copy and paste not too long ago. The Iphone does not have a file system browser. The Iphone cant multitask. hrm.. what else? Oh yeah the Iphone has MOST of the market-share.
See.. What you want, and What I want, is not what most people want.
Microsoft knows that WP7 is what the masses need. A device that's not difficult. A device that lets them surf the web, get text messages, listen to music, tweet, and update facebook. A device that "Just works" They dont want all kinds of customizable settings and stuff.. It's too complicated.. Frankly, the average human is an idiot.
A majority us who frequent these forums like to have settings and options and like to change and customize their phones. They like custom roms. They dont mind actually thinking a little and trying to figure out a problem. They dont care that they spend more time flashing and tweaking, and customizing than actually using the device...
But the rest of the world, the VAST majority, wants an Iphone... WP7 was THIER Idea.

x51 said:
The Iphone cant multitask. hrm.. what else? Oh yeah the Iphone has MOST of the market-share.
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It's 3rd behind RIM and Nokia, actually. I generally agree that MS can succeed with this, but I see rather the opposite of the point you make about xda's little discussion. I don't see nay-sayers demanding everyone hate it, I see defenders telling me I should like it.
To everyone who wants an iPhone, locked down, restricted controlled experience -- which is a considerable number of people -- enjoy. Just don't feel threatened by the fact that I want an actual smartphone, not a smarter than average feature phone.

x51 said:
Iphone has MOST of the market-share.
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fortunz said:
It's 3rd behind RIM and Nokia, actually.
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Yeah, I guess I was really thinking about WM vs Android, vs Iphone.
I had not considered Blackberry, and had no Idea Nokia was at the top.
Guess I need to look outside my own little box..
fortunz said:
but I see rather the opposite of the point you make about xda's little discussion. I don't see nay-sayers demanding everyone hate it, I see defenders telling me I should like it.
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Click to collapse
I was't making a point about XDA attitudes as a whole.. But I see a lot of people complaining that "MS is making a bad decision", and that "they will fail with this", and "how could they remove a file system browser".. etc.
This very thread is a petition to attempt to make MS change their direction on WP7..
And while I wish MS would.. I was pointing out that MS is trying to tap the Apple success.. so they are building an Apple like product.. and even though they will probably lose me and others.. they will likely gain much much more than they lose. From a company standpoint.. It's probably a good decision.
I'm pretty sure MS wont miss me at all.
Then again, I may love it.. and I cant wait to actually play with a final live release. The talented devs here will probably crack it.. make custom roms.. port "light" versions to phones that are 6 years old... who knows.. only time will tell.

Signed.
But have to say, there is no doubt in my mind that there will be a Pro version will all the features that are missing.
Logicalstep

+1
I'm relaying your petition on french website "Planete HTC".

Add no Flash.
It really is looking like Jo Bob's phone. It has no place for IT/CompSci types like us who like to break it down and micromanage our phones...

...I still can't find any mention of them discontinuing 'Windows Mobile' completley on any sites...only about the 'Windows Phone' Release.
There used to be a big distinction between smartphone and PDA editions so maybe this is part of that 'smartphone' umbrella!? Could this possibly mean that they intent to follow 'Windows Phone 7' with 'Windows Mobile 7' ?
Lets hope so, WP7 has nothing of appeal for me (apart form the hardware specs it will bring)

http://www.facebook.com/group.php?v=info&gid=110857428927753
facebook thread to gain more awareness about it ^

the petition and this thread is useless. if you really want to hurt micro$oft then move to android or another platform.

smoother2010 said:
the petition and this thread is useless. if you really want to hurt micro$oft then move to android or another platform.
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I completely agree.
Developing a phone OS is a monumental effort. Once the foundation is laid, it is not easy to dismantle and redo. I don't think it was an easy decision for MS to finally implicitly admit that Apple's ways were the better ways and to copy the concepts such as having physical stores, a single application store, locked down OS to protect the developers/book sellers/music artists, drastic reduction in hardware variation, etc etc. If they're smart, they will also secretly have a team of people to jailbreak their own OS in order to also satisfy the more geeky users but also pretent to fight these jailbreak community. In that way, they satisfy the software developers/music artist hence gain support for the growth and success of the online application store, at the same time, meet the requirements of the more geeky users like ourselves.

Seems the press are already writing off WP7

See the linked article http://www.theregister.co.uk/2010/11/26/windows_phone_7_sales/
WP7 doesn't appear to be doing very well. So many people want this to fail it amazes me!

That's truly sad. I'm actually a bit disappointed with the advertisements from Microsoft. Sure, the ads are broad casted a lot but there aren't any catchy ones like the iPod silhouettes and what not. MS needs to step it up when it comes to appealing to consumers through ads otherwise it'll be hard to dent the Androids hold over the smartphone marketshare.

Same here in France, with this article from a famous french magazine LE POINT: "What's wrong with WP7" (google translation)
http://translate.google.fr/translat...-qui-cloche-22-11-2010-1265610_47.php&act=url
Articles underlines some missing features when readers in the comments mainly insist on:
- the fact that WP7 is too locked, especially compared to Android
- WP7 is not designed for business

I guess that if it doesn't do well, those of us who have a wp7 device are going to be part of a pretty exclusive club! Still there is time yet, if MS produce the updates which add the missing features that all the naysayers continually whinge about and go up a gear on their marketing campaign WP7 will fly - it is too good a product not to!

I don't have a magic boll but I think that all of this will change in a couple of months

adesonic said:
I guess that if it doesn't do well, those of us who have a wp7 device are going to be part of a pretty exclusive club! Still there is time yet, if MS produce the updates which add the missing features that all the naysayers continually whinge about and go up a gear on their marketing campaign WP7 will fly - it is too good a product not to!
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It is reported that MS is in it for the win. I can only believe such criticisms will spur MS on to ever higher efforts. I agree, too, that most of the criticisms are about the lacking features. This will change when those features are added. I know I love the system but almost gave up on it...I was livid actually...when I saw it didn't have common voice nav. The copy & paste and multitasking, I was aware of it not having. But the voice nav, I wasn't aware of. It rocked me badly. I can only imagine what the general, unknowing, public might be feeling about the system...without all of these features.

I think for the sole reason of creating the hd7 and not allowing a hd2 upgrade they deserve to fail.

HTC deserve to fail for their mediocre WP7 devices. MS doesnt, but sadly they are depending on these hardwaremanufaturers.

nizzon said:
HTC deserve to fail for their mediocre WP7 devices. MS doesnt, but sadly they are depending on these hardwaremanufaturers.
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please tell me what is wrong with my hd7 ?

The press has pretty much written off Microsoft as a whole already. They need somebody to bark at and somebody to adore, if they aren't opinionated nobody will read their stuff.

twisted89 said:
I think for the sole reason of creating the hd7 and not allowing a hd2 upgrade they deserve to fail.
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the hd2 was never in line for it MS has always said that this is a stupid argument the hd7 may have similar specs but the hd7 is a vast improvment in design
Everyone is always bashing MS but that's not stopped them they new that the haters would come but so to are the updates and tbh if less ppl have one then the more ppl there are who will be amazed when they see mine

WP7 is too important for Microsoft for them to give up on it. It's their only mobile platform that ties all of their online services together. If they want to compete with Google WP7 has to succeed. Microsoft can't afford for to let everyone use an Android phone with cloud services and search services all going to Google.
For those that are worried about bad press remember people said the same thing about the xbox when it came out and it's been a success despite having a horrible track record with hardware failures.
WP7 is a long term strategy for Microsoft. Poor sales in the beginning is hardly anything to worry about it.

lumpaywk said:
the hd2 was never in line for it MS has always said that this is a stupid argument the hd7 may have similar specs but the hd7 is a vast improvment in design
Everyone is always bashing MS but that's not stopped them they new that the haters would come but so to are the updates and tbh if less ppl have one then the more ppl there are who will be amazed when they see mine
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
vast improvement in design? how exactly? they moved a couple of buttons around!

There is no vast improvement in design but the simple answer is the hd2 doesn't meet the button requirements for WP7. There's no exceptions to the rules Microsoft has laid out.
twisted89 said:
vast improvement in design? how exactly? they moved a couple of buttons around!
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ceesheim said:
please tell me what is wrong with my hd7 ?
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Click to collapse
Maybe nothing wrong with yours, but I'm on my 4th one. The first one had data reception problems. The second one had dead pixels all over the screen and at the perfect angle you could see scuff marks on the screen. The third one had trash under the screen, on top of the actual LCD. There were tiny specks of something on it.
I always thought my HD2 was exceptional for quality, and it is. But I have not had fortune with HTC's latest offerings.

adesonic said:
Seems the press are already writing off WP7
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Them again. And how many journalists are experts in anything?

The reports are just the typical anti-ms nonsense from the media...here in Canada it's hard to find the Samsung focus...the US launched with far fewer devices than demand.
MS is in for the long road...let's remember android for the first 2 years...

vangrieg said:
The press has pretty much written off Microsoft as a whole already. They need somebody to bark at and somebody to adore, if they aren't opinionated nobody will read their stuff.
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It's getting to the stage where the Microsoft-bashing is beyond the joke.
Journos and many other people in the media are Apple supporters simply because it's the platform on which they create, design and produce their content. This is mostly due to the fact that Microsoft were years behind MacOS in regards to graphic design and publication software in the 90s. Apple is still deeply encroached, despite the fact that Windows has since caught up with, and arguably overtaken, Apple's ability in that industry.
However, the other 99% of the world is very happily using Microsoft products. I don't use Office because I have to; I use it because, to me, it's a damn sight better than any comparable product. I don't use Windows 7 because I have to; I use it because, to me, it's a damn sight better than MacOS or any other flavour of Unix / Linux. And I've started using Windows Phone 7 because, to me, it's a damn sight better than WM 6.5, Apple iOS, Android, Blackberry or any of the others out there at the moment.
You really just need two things for WP7 to succeed; it needs to be good, and it needs to be relentlessly promoted.
Microsoft have relentlessly promoted terrible products in the past, and they have naturally failed (case in point: Microsoft Bob). However, they relentlessly promoted XBOX for years as well, even when in the beginning it was a less-than-strong platform. But it's just as well they did, because now it's bloody brilliant and we have new technologies like Kinect to play with.
At the end of the day, the great news here is that WP7 is actually good; and since the WP7 platform is the future home of Microsoft's silverlight technology, and a main branch of their XBOX development, you can be sure as hell they will keep promoting it until it succeeds.

twisted89 said:
I think for the sole reason of creating the hd7 and not allowing a hd2 upgrade they deserve to fail.
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Click to collapse
That was a pretty crappy move, but that is more of an HTC crime, not MSFT.

The new WP7 is a good platform, but only in some ways.
MS does make a 'brand-new' OS, however, since its launch, there are these 2 questions from the consumers:
1) From the current iOS and Android users: 'Its functions is almost the same, but my phone(iphone) display is much prettier and more apps, why should I change?'
2) From the current WM users: 'Geez, lots of functions that we like are now gone, no file explorer, no tethering, no mass storage mode, no copy&paste, can't remove storage-card, have to have a live-ID, etc etc.... I might as well just wait til the first update and see....'
The phone manufacturers has invested tons of money to make up phones for WM7, however, the response from the market is nothing close to expectation, if there's no breakthrough on the up coming update from MS, manufacturers like HTC and samsung might also hold on to the WM7 platform too.
To write off a product, you don't need the press, or experts, the consumer market does.

Live at Dive, Microsoft's Joe Belfiore Talks Windows Phone 7

So just how is Windows Phone 7 doing, and what is next in Microsoft’s effort to get back into the phone game?
In the hot seat next at D: Dive Into Mobile is Joe Belfiore, one of the Microsoft VPs in charge of the company’s phone effort. We’ll see what he has to say on these and other topics, including a planned January update that would bring copy and paste, among other things
Transcript: http://mobilized.allthingsd.com/20101207/microsofts-joe-belfiore-talks-windows-phone-7-at-d-div/
Video: http://video.allthingsd.com/video/j...e-market/2F3322D5-0029-4F97-BAC3-BAF82BE2B9CE
Walt comes over as a bit of an iDiot in the interview..

That's not the Walt I know when he is interviewing Steve Jobs.

what a douchebag
I mean he is! Belfore was surprisingly calm he could've been eric lin in this interview
http://v.youku.com/v_show/id_XMTA3MjU0MTYw.html

Yeah, I read this over at Engadget yesterday. The Walt guy kind of being a douche. Only focusing on the negatives of WP7. Don't get me wrong, Android and iOS are farther along but you have to realize WP7 has only been out in the market for just over a month. And don't forget, WP7 went gold in September so there could easily be a major update in Feb. as that would have been 5 months post going Gold. Belfiore seemed to stay calm and answered the questions. Though I think it would have been better if he just said "Are you mad that Microsoft isn't Apple or Google?"

He was also quite disrespecting of the RIM official as well. I couldn't believe what I was reading when I found this on Engadget.

What I don't understand is why are they making a big deal out of the old kernel? I mean, MS's kernel is solid and better than any other...it just happens to be old. That just means MS was ahead of the pack that much longer.

It can hardly be better than the Linux kernel...
And while Walt is a douche, Belfiore didn't exactly do well there. Apparently Microsoft doesn't have a plan for catching up and this is the real issue here!
Belfiore essentially admitted that they would never catch up with Android, which is quite pathetic on Microsoft's part if you ask me.

tomhierl said:
Belfiore essentially admitted that they would never catch up with Android, which is quite pathetic on Microsoft's part if you ask me.
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I think you are putting words in his mouth - he said he didn't know how long it would take create that sort of volume - longer than a couple of months possibly a couple of years.

tomhierl said:
It can hardly be better than the Linux kernel...
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Android uses a heavily modifies kernel and there are many things nt does better than linux.
Not breaking ur software when u update it being one.
Sent from my SGH-T959 using XDA App

tomhierl said:
Belfiore essentially admitted that they would never catch up with Android, which is quite pathetic on Microsoft's part if you ask me.
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Click to collapse
Where did he say anything like that? He said it may be year(s) before they catch up to the sales volume of android, but i'm not sure what you mean by "catch up" If you ask me, my Focus is already ahead of android in everything that matters.
I'm sort of surprised MS isn't touting some of their firsts.. first to market with a subscription music service - one that the infamous apple can't even do and no other phone can really compete against experience wise. First to market with fully integrated facebook/people hubs
BTW, the host was a complete Douche.. if he thought he was being tough, he was just coming off as stupid. He reminds me of a kid that keeps on asking "are we there yet" when they parents have already given every conceivable answer and the kid just doesn't give a rats ass anyway

tomhierl said:
It can hardly be better than the Linux kernel...
And while Walt is a douche, Belfiore didn't exactly do well there. Apparently Microsoft doesn't have a plan for catching up and this is the real issue here!
Belfiore essentially admitted that they would never catch up with Android, which is quite pathetic on Microsoft's part if you ask me.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Attention Attention...possible android fanboy alert!

blahism said:
I'm sort of surprised MS isn't touting some of their firsts.. first to market with a subscription music service - one that the infamous apple can't even do and no other phone can really compete against experience wise. First to market with fully integrated facebook/people hubs
BTW, the host was a complete Douche.. if he thought he was being tough, he was just coming off as stupid. He reminds me of a kid that keeps on asking "are we there yet" when they parents have already given every conceivable answer and the kid just doesn't give a rats ass anyway
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So what I'm thinking the guy reminds me of my son when we gets on one (he is 3) and I to think MS needs to learn the skill of bragging they have had to defend themseves so much they seem to have forgot how to big up the things they have done first/best. Zune is untouchable and its about time they let people know.

Doesn't matter how rude the host was, the microsoft guy had NOTHING to new or exciting/relevant to say. From the look on his face I bet he was expecting another light interview full of fluffy and nothing of value, which is exactly what he delivered.
It's one thing to not give timeframes for when features will be released but it's worse to not even let developers know if the features are going to be added or not.
Multitasking? - maybe
Sockets? - maybe
Meanwhile I'm slowly turning my attention to other platforms that actually have working API and a much broader market including tablets.

The whole live at dive thing was full of bad hosts.
You guys have to remember its like politics. Belfiore couldn't say much, I think he did a great job. One slip up and he could have lost his job.
He couldn't say the people hub is the first of its kind, because its not.

vetvito said:
The whole live at dive thing was full of bad hosts.
You guys have to remember its like politics. Belfiore couldn't say much, I think he did a great job. One slip up and he could have lost his job.
He couldn't say the people hub is the first of its kind, because its not.
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Click to collapse
where else has a people hub been used? This isnt trying to be a back chat i am genuinely interested as i have owned a blackberry (storm) android (htc desire) symbian (n95 8gb) my family have iphones and i use them at work and my wife has had an lg cant remember what model it was though and a nokia e70. I have not seen anything on these like it are you referring to the palm pre as i have never seen this is action? But the closest i have seen is the way android pulls the data together and the use of widgets.

Yes Android. Twitter, Facebook, and others have the option of integrating with your contacts. I just hit my contacts button and bam there is everything I need social wise. All the latest updates.

Yea, People Hub isn't new. The only thing new about it is the workflow (i.e. the way it actually functions). And it had to be "new" in that regard because the WP7 UI workflow demanded it. It would be like putting new mail counts in a notification bar with the Outlook Tile right there in you face...
I agree much of that was political.
Engadget's "additions" on their site probably made it read worse than it was. We all know who they are rooting for, though.

That interview totally cracked me up! It's true Belfiore couldn't say much, and beside that it wouldn't do good to give Walt more fuel to put aflame.
I like MS's approach with the WP7 marketing, development and app screening, and even opening up nearly all their whitepapers to developers - professionals and freelance alike, as well as students. I'm not familiar with how Apple does things on the development side but it seems their holding their own in terms of quality assurance of apps, but in Android its simply a horrible experience (at least from my experience, limited as it is).
On the issue of Legacy Code, well one really shouldn't re-invent the wheel. The Apple Mobile Kernel is basically a stripped off version of the original MAC kernel with a lot of optimizations, including its modular approach. The Android kernel is basically the linux kernel with, again, optimizations and changes for mobile architecture. But Hey, who's the layman who will say that Android and iOS isn't new? I think the WP7 OS is just getting dimmed by the Windows Mobile OS.
But I had to laugh at Walt's use of "Carrier Crapplets". ) Not that I'm against them.

denizen08 said:
I like MS's approach with the WP7 marketing, development and app screening, and even opening up nearly all their whitepapers to developers - professionals and freelance alike, as well as students. I'm not familiar with how Apple does things on the development side but it seems their holding their own in terms of quality assurance of apps, but in Android its simply a horrible experience (at least from my experience, limited as it is).
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I've been using android for about six months now and the biggest frustration for me is the endless, endless sea of crap that is the market. Some apps will be absolutely genius, work flawlessly and be well designed. Others look like they've been made by a sick monkey with a crayon. Admittedly, my experience is limited, but most of the apps I've tried (30-40+) have been in the latter category.
I'm sure if I had the time to go through every app for everything I required in the market, I could find good ones, but I don't, so I like the idea of quality control.

Who is the bearded fellow? he's a real ball buster lol

I Miss You Guys.

The new hardware needed to come out months ago.

bmstrong said:
The new hardware needed to come out months ago.
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You know, I felt the same way and got rid of my Samsung Focus back in March. A couple weeks ago, I decided to give the HTC HD7S a try. I did this in part because I received the Mango Beta 2 invite.
I love this device. The missing front camera, on the WP7 platform, is of no consequence to me. It will be at least another 12 months before this functionality really matters. Hopefully by then, a real standard for video chat will emerge.
I am very happy to have come back to WP7 and the apps have been coming in at a good rate. The only app I wish WP7 would get is Words With Friends. I am somewhat addicted to it. Luckily, I have an iPhone for work and an Acer Iconia Tablet so I get my fix on either of those devices.
I cannot discuss Mango features because of the NDA I signed, but there are plenty of discussions to follow here on XDA. I will say, the Mango update is what is going to keep me on this platform.

naplesbill said:
I did this in part because I received the Mango Beta 2 invite.
<skipped>
I cannot discuss Mango features because of the NDA I signed
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WTF? What NDA you signed that you "can't discuss Mango features"? A lot of web blogs/forums (including XDA!) are already discussing Mango features. It's free info

sensboston said:
WTF? What NDA you signed that you "can't discuss Mango features"? A lot of web blogs/forums (including XDA!) are already discussing Mango features. It's free info
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I obtained Mango through official channels. So, just because others are talking about it and it's features doesn't mean I should ignore the agreement I signed. Whether or not it will cause me problems is irrelevent. Everything I have seen on the web has been by people who obtained Mango unofficially.
You should have noticed that I said there was plenty of information on the beta features already posted on XDA.
This is off-topic from this thread anyway. I have principles that I live by, and abiding by an agreement is one of them. If Microsoft were to post that it is ok to discuss the beta software publicly, then it would be ok for me to discuss it.

naplesbill said:
I obtained Mango through official channels.
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Complete BS! XDA have a bunch WP7 developers who obtained the Mango update through official channels Did you read NDA properly? More - where are lot of MS employee blogs on the web who's already discussing Mango's features, providing a source code etc. etc.
You know, man, you just trying to looks more than you really are (like an MS subcontractor who's got some parts of WP7 source code ). I have a business contacts with the real Microsoft WP7 developers - not a tech-support but PM's and devs who really wrote a code but these guys never said "NDA" word, just keep silence about unannounced features.
P.S. And, of course, all XDA devs will be terribly upset about the lack of your comments!

sensboston said:
Complete BS! XDA have a bunch WP7 developers who obtained the Mango update through official channels Did you read NDA properly? More - where are lot of MS employee blogs on the web who's already discussing Mango's features, providing a source code etc. etc.
You know, man, you just trying to looks more than you really are (like an MS subcontractor who's got some parts of WP7 source code ). I have a business contacts with the real Microsoft WP7 developers - not a tech-support but PM's and devs who really wrote a code but these guys never said "NDA" word, just keep silence about unannounced features.
P.S. And, of course, all XDA devs will be terribly upset about the lack of your comments!
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I have no idea what you are going on about. I could care less what you think. I would suggest disengaging in this childish behavior. Here are the confidentiality terms (straight from the "Acceptance Conditions" for the beta):
microsoft said:
(c) Confidentiality. The Windows Phone (including the software embedded on the Windows Phone and associated services) and any other Deliverables are confidential to Microsoft, its licensors and its suppliers. Please see Section 7 below for requirements pertaining to Confidential Information (as defined below in Section 7).
7. Confidentiality
(a) Confidential Information.All Deliverables, including their existence and features, are proprietary and confidential to Microsoft, its licensors and its suppliers (“Confidential Information”).
(1) Use. You may not disclose Confidential Information or your opinion of the Confidential Information to third parties. You may disclose Confidential Information only to your employees or contractors who need to know the information. You must have written agreements with them which are substantially similar to the terms of this Agreement. You agree to be responsible for the actions of your contractors and any breach of this Agreement by your contractors will be deemed a breach by you.
(2) Exclusions. You may disclose Confidential Information in response to a judicial or governmental order. You must first give written notice to Microsoft to allow it to seek a protective order or otherwise protect the information. Confidential Information does not include information that
• becomes publicly known through no wrongful act;
• you received from a third party who did not breach confidentiality obligations to Microsoft, its licensors or its suppliers; or
• you developed independently.
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So, since I am not a lawyer, and presumably neither are you, I do not know at what point a feature of the software is no longer considered confidential. As such, I choose not to talk about it. If you have a problem understanding this logic, it is not my problem and there is absolutely no need for your condescending attitude about it.
Finally, NDA is just a term used to describe confidentiality. Non-Disclosure is confidentiality.

naplesbill said:
I have no idea what you are going on about. I could care less what you think. I would suggest disengaging in this childish behavior. Here are the confidentiality terms (straight from the "Acceptance Conditions" for the beta):
So, since I am not a lawyer, and presumably neither are you, I do not know at what point a feature of the software is no longer considered confidential. As such, I choose not to talk about it. If you have a problem understanding this logic, it is not my problem and there is absolutely no need for your condescending attitude about it.
Finally, NDA is just a term used to describe confidentiality. Non-Disclosure is confidentiality.
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Well said. The larger point I was trying to make is that despite my SGS2 I miss WP7. It's unique. I just want them to hurry up with the new hardware.

bmstrong said:
Well said. The larger point I was trying to make is that despite my SGS2 I miss WP7. It's unique. I just want them to hurry up with the new hardware.
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I was using the Motorla Atrix, and I actually liked the hardware and docking options. The problem for me is that I get very frustrated with Android and it's inconsistencies. With the hardware in the Atrix you would expect perfectly fluid UI transitions. The reality is that sometimes it still gets jittery.
With that in mind, I decided to give the HD7S a try and I truly enjoy this device much more than any other phone I have had. It really doesn't matter how many cores and how much memory a device has. What matters to me is how efficiently and effectively the device performs when using it.
Also, nothing personal but, I have put Samsung at the bottom of my list of devices. I have had the Captivate, Fascinate (work phone), and the Focus. None of them had adequate GPS performance and both the Android versions barely, if ever, had GPS signals at all. The Focus was also erratic but at least it had a signal more than it didn't. It just seems like Samsung doesn't care about GPS.
How is the SGS2 GPS? Have they finally provided a working GPS? I will see where devices stand after the Holidays. I will keep using the HD7S until then.

Has anyone tried the htc arrive? I was thinking about getting this phone, switching from android. And now that mango can be put on it, I think it sound pretty good.

The good thing about WP7 is when you get it you feel to give it away for lacking lots of features. Once you use it and read about the future updates, you become passionate towards it.
I have trophy which I bought for 600$. I feel now it was worthy to be bought.
Sent from my 7 Trophy using XDA Windows Phone 7 App

bricky23 said:
Has anyone tried the htc arrive? I was thinking about getting this phone, switching from android. And now that mango can be put on it, I think it sound pretty good.
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Yep I've got it on monday, but it is the european version called 7 Pro, it differs only in having other network frequencys. It is a bit thick(15mm ~ 0,59") and quite heavy(185g) but very well built and the keyboard is really superb. Battery life is also quite good because it has a 1500mAh battery. Camera takes decent pics.

I miss my Omnia 7.
I went crazy happy that Samsung finally found a fix for the call issue and network problems. I went equally frustrated when it turned out there not using HTC standards, and forced to send my phone in for the firmware update :-( I love my Omnia 7, thruly a masterpice, but Samsung just had to be stupid, it amazes me that a company can screw things up this bad and still be in the game.
ATM stuck with a Galaxy Spica with Android till there finished and i still aftet all years find Android lacking, lagging and being a mystery for why so many love it.
Anyways, will have to endure, and a company doing service is gonna test that endurance. It's hard to grasp that 1 single device can be so importent, and so. ... amazing. Metro makes all other OS obsolete, its a new and better way to interact with all increasing data out there. Sure, all phones can have tons of apps and in the end execute tge same feat more or less. But QP is changing how, and its a pleasure being a part of this journey.
The best part for all of us that use one phone, and only could afford 1, getting it early, and aftet 6 months we get a patch basicly giving us a new phone and prolonging life for all first WP owners. I think to few have given it a thought that these first wave devices will have a unussual long life spann.
Well, enough of my rant, and if i stop posting on XDA i have died from missing my phone.

naplesbill said:
I obtained Mango through official channels. So, just because others are talking about it and it's features doesn't mean I should ignore the agreement I signed. Whether or not it will cause me problems is irrelevent. Everything I have seen on the web has been by people who obtained Mango unofficially.
You should have noticed that I said there was plenty of information on the beta features already posted on XDA.
This is off-topic from this thread anyway. I have principles that I live by, and abiding by an agreement is one of them. If Microsoft were to post that it is ok to discuss the beta software publicly, then it would be ok for me to discuss it.
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You are right, I really admire your principles and is a good example that you are stating here (at least to me) please see my atrix NDA thread if you share this XDA can be in problems and obviously you.
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=1056714
Let's get back on topic.

[Jointly Letter]Join us! Speak Loudly to Microsoft!

The following letter was written by one of Hong Kong WP lovers. After posting for minutes. There're already 2000 votes. If you want Microsoft to Bring new features of WP8 that can be supported by WP7.5 hardware to WP7.8, please support our works! Join us! Speak Loudly to Microsoft!!
and here's the jointly letter (link re-newed) Please delete space!! :
http : //windowsphone.uservoice.co m/forums/101801-feature-suggestions/suggestions/2945071-bring-new-features-of-wp8-that-can-be-supported-by
and Here's the letter(by Simon Luk @ WeLoveWP.HK Administrator) :
20th June, 2012 has been one of the darkest days in the history of Windows Phone.
On 20th June, 2012, Microsoft announced Windows Phone 8, the next generation Windows Phone platform. At the same time, Microsoft broke the bad news to existing Windows Phone users – WP8 will not be available for existing WP devices to upgrade. Instead, Microsoft showed their “commitment” to current WP users by delivering WP7.8, which is just basically WP7.5 with the whole new Start Screen of WP8.
Are current users satisfied? Furious WP users are shouting in the Internet. Microsoft, what do you think?
Microsoft, you might think that the existing WP user base is just so small, so you can dumb us anytime you think it’s appropriate. You might think making current WP users angry is no big deal because WP8 must make a huge success, attracting all the consumers to buy your devices. Please, Microsoft, stop and think. Who are the existing WP users? We, the current WP users, are your loyal customers and fans. What you are doing with WP7.8 - barely adding a new Start Screen – is just an insult to us.
Being WP fans, we know that WP8 needs a new kernel. We absolutely understand the fact that our existing devices cannot get WP8 due to huge work for kernel and drivers re-writing. On the new kernel for WP8, we, WP fans, are totally on your side. I am sure most of the existing users, who wish WP having a better future, can accept the fact that WP8 apps cannot be supported in WP7.8 due to kernel incompatibility issues. However, it does not mean that it justifies for WP7.8 just having the new Start Screen of WP8.
Although they are still not officially announced, many features of WP8, including IE10, Skydrive Integration, Xbox Music & Video, DataSmart, whole-new range of languages and IME supports, etc, have been revealed by different parties. Many existing WP users will love to have these new features on their WP7.8 devices. We believe that some of the above features do not require high grade hardware. Indeed, Microsoft, we can assure you that you will **** most if not all WP users off, if you deliberately leave these “upgradable” features off from our WP7.8 devices.
We are your loyal WP supporters. We were always happy to introduce our friends to buy WP7.5 devices. Provided that WP7.8 only brings the new Start Screen without other new features from WP8 which are supported by existing hardware, we just cannot help but tell our dear friends – Do not buy a WP. Word of mouth is of paramount importance in selling smartphones. Please do not embarrass us and yourself. Act quickly and give confidence to the existing WP users; and we will let the whole world know WP is always worth buying.
Microsoft, please bring new features of WP8 that are supported by existing WP7.5 hardware to WP7.8. Do not let your loyal WP fans down.
Simon Luk
Administrator
WeLoveWP.HK

+1

boxcar8028 said:
+1
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thx for your support!!

You drop the f bomb and think someone is going to take you seriously?
Sent from my PC36100 using XDA

JaiCameron said:
You drop the f bomb and think someone is going to take you seriously?
Sent from my PC36100 using XDA
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It's not the OP, you do know that?
Also, it would read a word starting with a "p" here.
Though I'm not a WP user, I fully support this cause and hope that you'll be able to make this work out!
Sent from my GT-I9000 using Tapatalk 2

I support

Totally support.

For the lazy ones:
http://windowsphone.uservoice.com/f...-new-features-of-wp8-that-can-be-supported-by
Also: Signed!

yep.. should support!!

ChrisKringel said:
For the lazy ones:
http://windowsphone.uservoice.com/f...-new-features-of-wp8-that-can-be-supported-by
Also: Signed!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Took 3 votes from somewhere else and gave it to this. Great idea!

Oh cry me a river! Microsoft hasn't released any details regarding what WP8 features are going to be on 7.8 and you're all going ape-****. Calm down and at least wait for an official statement from Microsoft. Threatening to tell others not to buy Windows Phones, seriously? Based on what? Internet chatter? That letter by Simon Luk looks like a letter to Paul McCartney begging him not to quit the Beatles. I think this community is better than that so please, practice some restraint.

fatclue said:
Oh cry me a river! Microsoft hasn't released any details regarding what WP8 features are going to be on 7.8 and you're all going ape-****. Calm down and at least wait for an official statement from Microsoft. Threatening to tell others not to buy Windows Phones, seriously? Based on what? Internet chatter? That letter by Simon Luk looks like a letter to Paul McCartney begging him not to quit the Beatles. I think this community is better than that so please, practice some restraint.
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Click to collapse
This.

Pretty sure the admin from WeLoveWP.HK is correct in that 7.8 only gets new tile sizes. On the other hand, it is unlikely that this petition will convince Microsoft to add additional features for current generation phones.
I do hope somebody will come up with an acceptable solution. Microsoft is not in a good enough position to anger its userbase as it is not that big to begin with.

I provided my 3 votes, even though I switched to Android from WP7 a few months ago. I kinda guessed the new kernel meant that the current Mango phones weren't going to get upgraded.
Honestly, a whole OS upgrade isn't necessary for the phones, as long as some kind of incentive program could be available to encourage devs to attempt to make apps that weren't hardware-limited to run on both WP8 and WP7. Stuff like Instagram, Flipboard, simple games, etc.
Edit: Oh, and one thing that would've made me stick with WP7 longer would have been a simple Webkit-compatible browser. Half the mobile websites I visited wouldn't display properly because the browser didn't support Webkit. Extremely annoying.

We don't even know if the start screen is all that's in 7.8... We don't know all the features in Apollo, so how would we know all of them in 7.8? There's still a lot of time until the release.

I support !
Sent from my TITAN X310e using XDA Windows Phone 7 App

already voted with 6 votes.
thanks in advance

Signed too ! Please post it on Facebook and tweeter !!! !!!

+1

...has any of you guys got any confirmed information about the final content of update WP7.8 and which devices are going to get it or not? No? Then don't you think that this kind of action is a bit premature and a bit stupid?