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We all know Microsoft is on a roll to make patent licensing agreements with Android OEMs. Since last week, Microsoft have announced 4 such deals without disclosing the amount of royalty involved. Today Reuters that Microsoft is demanding about $15 per Android device from Samsung, one of the largest android OEM in the world. Microsoft is also ready to lower the royalty amount if Samsung agrees with some deeper alliance related to Windows Phone smartphone making. Microsoft signed similar deal with HTC last year, Will Samsung also join the fray soon? I hope Samsung agrees with Microsoft on the later deal of less royalty amount for Android devices and more Windows Phone smartphones. Also analysts predict Samsung to ship about 19 million smartphones this quarter, if the deal is done Microsoft will get about $1 Billion IP licensing revenue from Samsung alone in a year...
Now that is a beautiful puzzle, they've already released the most user friendly and in my opinion best is on the market and now they're putting a squeeze on the big name android OEMs to eliminate some of the competition. I love this, now just throw in some good marketing and well have the trifecta of a perfect operating system.
z33dev33l said:
We all know Microsoft is on a roll to make patent licensing agreements with Android OEMs. Since last week, Microsoft have announced 4 such deals without disclosing the amount of royalty involved. Today Reuters that Microsoft is demanding about $15 per Android device from Samsung, one of the largest android OEM in the world. Microsoft is also ready to lower the royalty amount if Samsung agrees with some deeper alliance related to Windows Phone smartphone making. Microsoft signed similar deal with HTC last year, Will Samsung also join the fray soon? I hope Samsung agrees with Microsoft on the later deal of less royalty amount for Android devices and more Windows Phone smartphones. Also analysts predict Samsung to ship about 19 million smartphones this quarter, if the deal is done Microsoft will get about $1 Billion IP licensing revenue from Samsung alone in a year...
Now that is a beautiful puzzle, they've already released the most user friendly and in my opinion best is on the market and now they're putting a squeeze on the big name android OEMs to eliminate some of the competition. I love this, now just throw in some good marketing and well have the trifecta of a perfect operating system.
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Well, you know what they say...fruit is better for us than pastries/dairy. (Mango vs. Ice Cream Sandwich/Eclair)
good for them, I don't think it's good for us
I can't believe a thread on xda of all places supporting a broken patent system, extortion, profiterring instead of innovation. wow.
*wipes tear* i love you Microsoft! always have done and will be loyal forever
The only group to blame for this is Google, releasing something that completely infringes on a bunch of other peoples patents. While it may be a douchey move to do this to the very manufactures you're partnered with, I can't blame MS.
ohgood said:
I can't believe a thread on xda of all places supporting a broken patent system, extortion, profiterring instead of innovation. wow.
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Except, after seeing your responses on here for months now... You would have zero problems with this if Google was doing it, right?
FiyaFleye said:
Except, after seeing your responses on here for months now... You would have zero problems with this if Google was doing it, right?
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You are probably right
I'm kinda put off by some of those patents . I mean really .. you can patent that ?
Although they do own the patents so "Pay up Sucka's ."
This will not be good for user's in the end either way .
My .02
ohgood said:
I can't believe a thread on xda of all places supporting a broken patent system, extortion, profiterring instead of innovation. wow.
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But be logical now instead of loyal. Is it fair for someone to release a product using a part of something that you own and you receive nothing for it?
How would you feel if you developed an app and I took a portion of that and created my own app and made millions?
I am not saying the patent system is perfect; it is far from. But people need to innovate and license, not steal and pass off. And we are not even sure what this patent infringement is, but players are settling quickly. This suggests to me that it may be open and shut wrong-doing on Google's part.
But the thread is a little sensational. If MS's intention was to cripple they would be doing more than seeking royalties
nicksti said:
But be logical now instead of loyal. Is it fair for someone to release a product using a part of something that you own and you receive nothing for it?
How would you feel if you developed an app and I took a portion of that and created my own app and made millions?
I am not saying the patent system is perfect; it is far from. But people need to innovate and license, not steal and pass off. And we are not even sure what this patent infringement is, but players are settling quickly. This suggests to me that it may be open and shut wrong-doing on Google's part.
But the thread is a little sensational. If MS's intention was to cripple they would be doing more than seeking royalties
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That's my sentiments and what I've been about all along. Yet when I say Apple has the rights to receive compensation on their infringed patents, I'm an Apple fanboy. Then when I side with MS's side of the patent infringement, I'm a MS fanboy. The only time I'm not harassed badly for seeming like a fanboy is when I say something favorable about Google. If I say something favorable about any other company...even if the favored words are intermixed with multiple companies, I'm a fanboy. The friggin rationality of the web is beyond mind twisting. People will stomp and storm over the least little thing.
nicksti said:
If MS's intention was to cripple they would be doing more than seeking royalties
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I agree with this. MS definitely has the money to go after Google itself if they wanted to, but going after OEM's could be a way to secure a footing for WP7 as it's up to them to push WP7. If OEM's don't support WP7, it's screwed. Also, going after Google would conflict with MS & it's anti-monopoly issues.
Kinda old. Its been a known fact that Microsoft makes more money from Android than WP7.
Sad, sick, but true. The patent system is ridiculous.
The patent system is there to protect people from having their stuff stolen. How'd you like it if someone broke into your house & stole everything? Ok, not exactly the same thing. Or how about, you developer some new software or Ui or something & some big company like MS/Apple/Google steals it & makes millions or even billions off it? It's funny how when it's the big corperations, it's "sad/sick/etc," but if it were some small company or a single person, it's ok.
Double Standards just aren't cool. I may not like big corporations & their greed, but guest what, they have rights too.
You do realize that patent licensing happens everywhere to protect the developer of a technology. Like DVD/Blu Ray manufacturers paying royalties to the developers of that technology. The "Blu-ray Disc Association" (Sony, Panasonic, Pioneer, Philips, Thomson, LG (Lucky GoldStar) Electronics, Hitachi, Sharp, and Samsung) created the Blu Ray format, so everyone else making Blu Ray players/burners must pay a royalty. How would you like it if you were the developer of Blu Ray & seeing all these companies making money on your technology while you're broke.
NOTE: In all of MS's 36 years, this is only the 7th time they actually acted on their patents.
drkfngthdragnlrd said:
The patent system is there to protect people from having their stuff stolen. How'd you like it if someone broke into your house & stole everything? Ok, not exactly the same thing. Or how about, you developer some new software or Ui or something & some big company like MS/Apple/Google steals it & makes millions or even billions off it? It's funny how when it's the big corperations, it's "sad/sick/etc," but if it were some small company or a single person, it's ok.
Double Standards just aren't cool. I may not like big corporations & their greed, but guest what, they have rights too.
You do realize that patent licensing happens everywhere to protect the developer of a technology. Like DVD/Blu Ray manufacturers paying royalties to the developers of that technology. The "Blu-ray Disc Association" (Sony, Panasonic, Pioneer, Philips, Thomson, LG (Lucky GoldStar) Electronics, Hitachi, Sharp, and Samsung) created the Blu Ray format, so everyone else making Blu Ray players/burners must pay a royalty. How would you like it if you were the developer of Blu Ray & seeing all these companies making money on your technology while you're broke.
NOTE: In all of MS's 36 years, this is only the 7th time they actually acted on their patents.
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I agree with you.....
everyone have the right to collect $$$$ for their patents, as they have spent time money and efforts, and no one is allowed to just take and use someone else's work...
Google will have more trouble coming their way when Nortel patents will change hands...
Oracle is also going to collect money from Google for some stuff they used in android, estimated $2 billion or so....
Google should have done their homework tbh, handing over these issues to the hardware manufacturers is pretty weak.
Not that I'm agreeing with these patents, some of them are very vaguely defined.
You guys really don't know how vague some of the patents are. Hell I can pick any software and find some copied code. Do some deeper investigation yourself. Doesn't matter how big or small a company is, doesn't matter to me if its Google, Apple, or some unknown Guy down the street.
The patent system needs a major over haul. Make a new OS or program and make millions, and I guarantee you that you will be slapped with patent infringement. Its sick.
truffle1234 said:
I agree with you.....
everyone have the right to collect $$$$ for their patents, as they have spent time money and efforts, and no one is allowed to just take and use someone else's work...
Google will have more trouble coming their way when Nortel patents will change hands...
Oracle is also going to collect money from Google for some stuff they used in android, estimated $2 billion or so....
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You do know oracle had to drop more than 90% of their case.
It isn't vague. When you patent something, you have to be thorough about how it all works. These "news" articles just give the "Title" to the patent. The full patent has this huge legal description of what exactly is patented. I know this because as a kid I was going through the patent process, till my lawyer found out what I was trying to patent already existed. BTW, as for try to make an OS. Well the problem is all OS's are basically the same, very similar UI's save (WP7). they all have some form of taskbar/start menu/window based applications. The whole point why Windows is called Windows. The point of inovation is to make something new, not copy what's there & try to make it different. That's basically borderline plagerism, granted that's to do with writing, but it's the same thing.
See this;
1) No. 6,909,910 from 2005 for "managing changes to a contact database."
2) No. 7,644,376, issued in 2010 to cover an API that lets mobile apps learn about state changes in the device.
3) No. 5,664,133 from 1997 covering "context sensitive menu system/menu behavior," known more generally as a graphical user interface that lets users "quickly and easily select/execute the desired computer resource."
4) No. 6,578,054 from 2003 covering online and offline transmission of data through methods that "eliminate data transmission and allow multiple copies of data to be synchronized via incremental changes."
5) No. 6,370,566 from 2002, with the self-explanatory title, "Generating Meeting Requests and Group Scheduling From a Mobile Device."
All of that us understandable but the patent system us royally ****ed up.
http://www.nytimes.com/2004/09/27/technology/27patent.html
http://www.macgasm.net/2009/12/30/the-patent-system-is-broken-and-nokia-vs-apple-continues/
There are patents that defy the laws of phsyics, patents that are beyond belief. ****s stupid. Its actually hurting innovation from the little guys.
Android, and every other touchscreen OS, (besides iOS) you might as well say goodbye to... I HOPE NOT!
Apple now has the power to destroy Android, Windows Phone, and any other iOS Touchscreen Competitor... Steve Jobs wins this round (for now anyways...)
How long before Apple has the PS2 and S3 Pulled?
Check this out:
http://www.acsyndicate.net/apple-aw...ts-the-possible-end-of-android-as-we-know-it/
This could spell the end for Android and this phone, and I will not be a happy camper if I can't upgrade to the S3 because of Apple... I will throw a major tantrum! But they can ban the Galaxy S, Epic Touch, and S3, along with any and all other android manufacturers... The government will fix this hopefully...
Google, act & appeal fast and fix this mess!!!!
Comments, Thoughts, Last Wishes?
I am not saying this will happen, but is quite possible if the government doesn't block Apple in their tracks from doing so... (I think once Google Appeals, these parents will be made standard for touchscreens...)
Google never loses. End of story, this will not happen.
Sent from my SPH-D710 using xda app-developers app
yeah, this is a bunch of FUD.
and a very poor ruling by a judge. most of those patents won't hold.
Android is not going anywhere.
With apples iphone sales slowly declining and losing loyal customers, I don't see this being an issue...not just with the phones, I am reading alot of fanboys upset about the new mbp and how everythings soldered down making it near impossible to upgrade or repair....
Apple will fight tooth and nail saying that other companies stealing patents are the reason they are losing business, but they are really doing it to themselves being greedy.
Lol I'll go to a flip phone before I'm FORCED to go to Apple
Sent from my SPH-D710 using xda premium
I hope this will go away soon!!!
Over dramatic much?
Sent from my SPH-D710 using Tapatalk 2
It's just the basic forms of technological evolution. We've seen what phone such as the Samsung Galaxy S3 brought, they bring so much more than the iPhone 4S or maybe even the rumored "iPhone 5". Like honestly Apple is slowly becoming a monopoly, if anyone knows history Standard Oil was seperated into different oil industries because of actions that were harmful to the consumer/ government/ and other industries. Apple, being a large company, would try to take out any sort of competition that would "try" to honestly throttle their sales of their product. Customers all don't want to be tied down to a single phone. Just like people have different tastes in food, clothing, and other marketed products, they will also continue to have different taste in phones as well. It saddens me because my first phone was an iPhone (1st Gen) (I was 17 at the time) and I was proud to have it. But after seeing other phones that bring better features and finally ended up getting better and more phones that have better use to me. I get disgusted by the fact that Apple is using tactics to obliterate competition. Tactics that will not only hurt the industry such as Samsung, but also the consumer because I am 100% sure that this Android community will want to have iPhones only. So overall Apple....to me is becoming a monopoly, it's just slowly becoming one and won't stop bringing others to court until the iPhone is in everyone's grasp.
Sent from my SPH-D710 using Tapatalk 2
What ever happened with that patent that Palm had for the phone app? It was rumored that if that was ever brought to court all iphones would just become ipods.
The second it gets in my grasp, I'll be throwing into moving traffic...
But Apple is just evil in what they are doing to Android... I really don't like it, and for once I feel bad for Windows Phone...
Remember, there are touchscreen BlackBerrys... If Apple sues RIM, it's over for them...
If I might add, if an iPhone gets in my grasp, it better be a quadcore phone with a 4.8" screen, Gorilla Glass, and Android Key Lime Pie or Kandy Kane running flawlessly with 4G LTE, as if that will ever happen...
I bet money that these patents will be invalidated soon. Why? Because theres no way that the government can allow apple to monopolize the smartphone business. Ill happily stick with my s2/s3 the rest of my life if they dont get invalidated
Id love to see samsung buy all the palm patents from hp that shut apple up real fast
Sent from the Apple store using my Gs2
apple is a lost cause.. epic in the era of steve jobs and now trying to stop the giant that is google to survive.. even if apple wins, there will be millions of android users across the world that would defend google. open source is the future, google will never die.. if anything google will be forced to come out with something even better than a "touchscreen" smartphone.. either way apple is against the ropes and probably losing fast as far as the long run looks.. apple is in the shadow of blackberry, destined to fail
Sent from my SPH-D710 using xda app-developers app
Google needs to step in and stomp apple
Apple is pathetic.. I say we C4 every Apple building in the US to make a point who's with me?!
Jk lol
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locoboi187 said:
Lol I'll go to a flip phone before I'm FORCED to go to Apple
Sent from my SPH-D710 using xda premium
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Seriously had to put a thanks on this post. If (and honestly I don't see it happening) this ever does happen I'll go buy a flip phone period and say screw you to apple.
cidica said:
Seriously had to put a thanks on this post. If (and honestly I don't see it happening) this ever does happen I'll go buy a flip phone period and say screw you to apple.
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wow this is a load of bollocks!! I agree lets all go back to flip phones!
Doesn't Google have it's own arsenal of patents it owns from Motorola mobility... as in first cell phone. If Apple doesn't play with Google, they could say "fine... you don't want us to have a touch screen... you don't get to have a cell phone."
Ok so Apple is rewarded +1 billion USD from Samsung copying their patents. I have to say that some of those patens must have been approved by people who smoke crack. I hate the verdict, I hate the fact that this type of trial in US is actually decided by jury of regular people. There are just so many things I hate about the whole thing thats going on, but thats not why Im posting.
As now this whole thing probably gets deeper with appeals and most likely Google will have to get more involved. What do you think, the 2 biggest are fighting together could this actually a good thing for WP camp, especially Nokia since they are the main manufacturer in the WP camp?
Loco5150 said:
Ok so Apple is rewarded +1 billion USD from Samsung copying their patents. I have to say that some of those patens must have been approved by people who smoke crack. I hate the verdict, I hate the fact that this type of trial in US is actually decided by jury of regular people. There are just so many things I hate about the whole thing thats going on, but thats not why Im posting.
As now this whole thing probably gets deeper with appeals and most likely Google will have to get more involved. What do you think, the 2 biggest are fighting together could this actually a good thing for WP camp, especially Nokia since they are the main manufacturer in the WP camp?
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This has no benefit to WP whatsoever, 1B for samsung is like two pieces of paper, and they won't pay it, they'll appeal as usual.
So, nope Nokia and WP will need something else to shine.
apple will get, ohhhh , about what they get for 3 months worth of new activstions on iPhones. Samsung will keep on pummeling us with incredible phones.
Nokia? no benefit. unless it bumps the stock price (taking profits time) for the folks that are raping it daily.
This most likely will end with sales ban for some devices, also Apple will go after other Android manufacturers. Bloomberg also reports that Samsung will most likely have to delay some new devices so they have time to change things so they will not do the same thing again.
All this might be helping the smaller guy. But for the record I hope the appeals court will change this verdict. Also that they void Apple's ridicilous and vague patents that never should have been rewarded anyway.
Loco5150 said:
This most likely will end with sales ban for some devices, also Apple will go after other Android manufacturers. Bloomberg also reports that Samsung will most likely have to delay some new devices so they have time to change things so they will not do the same thing again.
All this might be helping the smaller guy. But for the record I hope the appeals court will change this verdict. Also that they void Apple's ridicilous and vague patents that never should have been rewarded anyway.
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but those rounded corners are apples' genius!
the whole thing is stupid anyway. if you can't win in sales, sic lawyers on the competition.
remember sco?
ohgood said:
but those rounded corners are apples' genius!
the whole thing is stupid anyway. if you can't win in sales, sic lawyers on the competition.
remember sco?
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wasnt the rectangle with rounded corners thrown out though?
as to the topic, It could be good for WP, the whole android model is starting to look a bit dodgy, potentially, manufactures might start to say its not worth the hassle and since google has made it perfectly clear they are on their own it makes for a juicy target!
MS and Apple have cross licence agreements going back decades and as such are by and large protected from this stupidity, but lets be clear on something here, its neither apple or Samsung that should be attacked because of these daft patent wars, its the people in the patent office that should be shot, if Apple are awarded a patent for a box with a button in the middle then it is perfectly within its rights to uphold that patent.
its stupid, but I don't hold the companies to blame, every single one of us would jump through hoops to make 2.7B USD regardless of how stupid it is and how marginal it is, if there was a chance we'd go for it, and its the patent office that sets up these chances.
Well it's just about some patents regarding pinch to zoom, double tap and bounce scroll. All of the other competitors were paying already for using those patented features, Samsung wasn't because it's a scumbag company which is only able to make good internals and displays slapping them into fugly plastic bodies with no personality whatsoever, and therefore keeps copying the competition to make up for the above mentioned weak points. Paying for anything doesn't appeal to them, they much prefer stealing instead. Don't get me wrong, I still think that these things should be under FRAND, but law is there to be respected or reformed, acting like it didn't exist and getting into such kind of trials just in order to spare a few bucks is just being a lame and disrespectful scumbag company. At least in this case, justice was done. Now let's reform this patent bull**** system.
Sent from my Lumia 800 using XDA Windows Phone 7 App
Having owned a device from every smartphone platform except BB and Android I think Android is the platform that tends to borrow the most from everyone else.
Samsung is a cloning company, they make things for people. So it should come as no surprise that they are good at lifting other peoples ideas.
What ground-breaking products has Samsung introduced to the market? by that I mean game changing devices, not technology. I bet you're struggling to think of any.
I think iOS has fallen behind the times and so my move to Windows Phone, but we all owe Apple for making multitouch and finger based touchscreen devices mainstream. It's something Samsing would never have done, their top selling phones before the iPhone were mostly dumbphones.
dazza9075 said:
wasnt the rectangle with rounded corners thrown out though?
as to the topic, It could be good for WP, the whole android model is starting to look a bit dodgy, potentially, manufactures might start to say its not worth the hassle and since google has made it perfectly clear they are on their own it makes for a juicy target!
MS and Apple have cross licence agreements going back decades and as such are by and large protected from this stupidity, but lets be clear on something here, its neither apple or Samsung that should be attacked because of these daft patent wars, its the people in the patent office that should be shot, if Apple are awarded a patent for a box with a button in the middle then it is perfectly within its rights to uphold that patent.
its stupid, but I don't hold the companies to blame, every single one of us would jump through hoops to make 2.7B USD regardless of how stupid it is and how marginal it is, if there was a chance we'd go for it, and its the patent office that sets up these chances.
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I was being silly about the round corners. the patent system is broken, but that's another story /thread.
so long as the android devices are selling better than the iPhone, I doubt manufacturers will think of it as dodgy.
manufacturers only care about selling phones... they'll do whatever is needed to keel doing that, inuding paying pennies to the apple gods to do so. passing on expenses is economics 101. (sad really)
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gilesjuk said:
Having owned a device from every smartphone platform except BB and Android I think Android is the platform that tends to borrow the most from everyone else.
Samsung is a cloning company, they make things for people. So it should come as no surprise that they are good at lifting other peoples ideas.
What ground-breaking products has Samsung introduced to the market? by that I mean game changing devices, not technology. I bet you're struggling to think of any.
I think iOS has fallen behind the times and so my move to Windows Phone, but we all owe Apple for making multitouch and finger based touchscreen devices mainstream. It's something Samsing would never have done, their top selling phones before the iPhone were mostly dumbphones.
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its not much of a struggle to think of very good, very impressive samsung devices of late. the s3 and even s2 are selling (and reselling) like hotcakes. look at your local craigslist , the most desired phones are back and forth between ihpone 4s and s3/s2. I would expect some kind of shattering ideals cpu and display by Christmas from them also.
clones? yes, everyone is making a slab of glass phone. its what sells now. Nokia, Samsung, HTC, LG (are they still making phones) , everyone is on the slab of glass bandwagon.
ohgood said:
its not much of a struggle to think of very good, very impressive samsung devices of late. the s3 and even s2 are selling (and reselling) like hotcakes.
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Yes, but they're basically "me too" products. They've taken their existing product and added hundreds of features and bigger screen etc.
The sad thing is Apple is now stuck in this cycle of just adding a few more features, nicer screen and camera.
What I was saying was when did Samsung ever release a product that totally changed the market? It seems to me that Apple has released the devices that changed the computing industry the most. Mam, iMac, iPod and iPhone, iPad. While they may not have invented all the technology they used it still takes a lot of guts to release a different product.
The sad thing is how Microsoft laughed at the iPhone and then scrambled to release their own comparable platform (3 years later!).
I couldn't care less for Google, they're even worse than Microsoft for copying. At least when Microsoft look at a rival and release their version it is usually better in many ways, cheaper and not much less in quality. Google's stuff tends to be very low quality and poorly supported. Even devices they have had made for them were badly made (Nexus 7).
gilesjuk said:
Yes, but they're basically "me too" products. They've taken their existing product and added hundreds of features and bigger screen etc.
The sad thing is Apple is now stuck in this cycle of just adding a few more features, nicer screen and camera.
What I was saying was when did Samsung ever release a product that totally changed the market? It seems to me that Apple has released the devices that changed the computing industry the most. Mam, iMac, iPod and iPhone, iPad. While they may not have invented all the technology they used it still takes a lot of guts to release a different product.
The sad thing is how Microsoft laughed at the iPhone and then scrambled to release their own comparable platform (3 years later!).
I couldn't care less for Google, they're even worse than Microsoft for copying. At least when Microsoft look at a rival and release their version it is usually better in many ways, cheaper and not much less in quality. Google's stuff tends to be very low quality and poorly supported. Even devices they have had made for them were badly made (Nexus 7).
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ahhh, misunderstood you. I see now.
can't think of anything revolutoonary since the mouse really. voice input is neat, but the keyboard and mouse still own.
Loco5150 said:
Ok so Apple is rewarded +1 billion USD from Samsung copying their patents. I have to say that some of those patens must have been approved by people who smoke crack. I hate the verdict, I hate the fact that this type of trial in US is actually decided by jury of regular people. There are just so many things I hate about the whole thing thats going on, but thats not why Im posting.
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Err... This jury had people with legal knowledge and at least one engineer with a patent of their own. It was probably the most knowledgeable jury I've seen... ever.
vnvman said:
Well it's just about some patents regarding pinch to zoom, double tap and bounce scroll. All of the other competitors were paying already for using those patented features, Samsung wasn't because it's a scumbag company which is only able to make good internals and displays slapping them into fugly plastic bodies with no personality whatsoever, and therefore keeps copying the competition to make up for the above mentioned weak points.
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You said it brother.
gilesjuk said:
What ground-breaking products has Samsung introduced to the market? by that I mean game changing devices, not technology. I bet you're struggling to think of any.
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Nope. Samsung Note. At first I thought it sounded redonkulous. The build quality sucks compared to the Lumia 900 but the screen size definitely caught on with a certain segment of the population. The iphone 4s' screen is pathetic. No way around that. I'm not saying I would cruise around with a note in my pocket but it definitely explores a space. If the iphone 4s was the final word on smartphone screens we would be stuck in the stone ages. People crow about the iphone apps but I can't see those things God damn it! That screen is tiny.
sitizenx said:
Err... This jury had people with legal knowledge and at least one engineer with a patent of their own. It was probably the most knowledgeable jury I've seen... ever.
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Yup, one person that that has some knowledge on patents. Not enough in my opinion. Even if it was the "most knowledgeable jury", that does not mean that it is qualified to handle the matter.
Now why I started the whole topic. Apple has now asked sales ban for 8 Samsung devices in the US. I would expect we will see a lot more of this in the near future.
And yes Samsung keeps copying things, hell yes that happens in every business all the time. But you know what, so does Apple. They are just better at it. They basically steal because they are able to make the consumer think they actually invented these things. They did not invent mp3 player or a touch screen phone, they just copied it and made it better.
Loco5150 said:
Apple has now asked sales ban for 8 Samsung devices in the US. I would expect we will see a lot more of this in the near future.
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proof that the USA is in need of a rethink of (not just) its patent system.
they want the sales ban to get some of their sales percentage back, not because of patent infringement. its a lie covering inadequacies. pitiful.
The law ask "are the products similar "? Thats all it ask, and the obvious answer is...
Everybody said it before the original Galaxy S was released,"boy that thing looks a lot like the iPhone". Every reviewer, just YouTube it. The icons and bounce scroll sealed it.
Dont hate the player(Apple), hate the game(patent system).
Sent from my Nexus S using Tapatalk 2
So here we go... Now Apple is seeking sales ban for new Samsung devices, inluding Galaxy S III and Galaxy Note.
ok well check this out!!! nontechies think samsung is the same as apple just cheaper
http://t.co/58HJ3dnp
plus with Google/Motorola suing apple i think this could be the end of them....:good::good::good::good::good::good::good::good:
Not necessarily. Apple is a huge company. One or two lawsuits is not going to hurt the company. They could really care less about winning $1 billion let alone being sued for half as much.
I do hope Apple pays for this. That rule was highly unfair and I hope Samsung comes out strong because of it.
I did like the Google+ article though. It's nice to see Apple Zombies checking out something that doesn't have the Apple logo on it.
ndh777 said:
Not necessarily. Apple is a huge company. One or two lawsuits is not going to hurt the company. They could really care less about winning $1 billion let alone being sued for half as much.
I do hope Apple pays for this. That rule was highly unfair and I hope Samsung comes out strong because of it.
I did like the Google+ article though. It's nice to see Apple Zombies checking out something that doesn't have the Apple logo on it.
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but google/motorola is trying to get ~90% of what they make banned from the USA and one judge already said apple was guilty
Anything is cheaper than Apple. Samsung doesn't want people to think that their products are copies of Apples, they advertise themselves as innovative. It looks like they copied the UI from the Galaxy S 1 line, but after that, they started doing stuff their own way (being innovative) and now Samsung owns most of the smartphone market. It's a shame though that these articles are boasting that Samsung is nothing but a cheaper version of Apple. I prefer Samsung products, but only because they're Samsung originals, not Apple copies.
Ewww this paints a slightly different story but i still hope the future belongs to samsung.
http://gizmodo.com/5937887/apple-vs...ct-was-well+considered-samsung-emails-damning
Ascertion said:
Anything is cheaper than Apple. Samsung doesn't want people to think that their products are copies of Apples, they advertise themselves as innovative. It looks like they copied the UI from the Galaxy S 1 line, but after that, they started doing stuff their own way (being innovative) and now Samsung owns most of the smartphone market. It's a shame though that these articles are boasting that Samsung is nothing but a cheaper version of Apple. I prefer Samsung products, but only because they're Samsung originals, not Apple copies.
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But people who are techies know how much better Samsung is then apple but it is nice to see apple fan boys looking at Samsung products
Sent from my SPH-L710 using xda app-developers app
http://www.cnn.com/2012/08/28/tech/innovation/google-apple-patents/
Apple just give up the IPHONE sucks deal with it.
They won a big one, so it's going to continue. There's not much discussion left other than Apple is abusing the Patent system.
Overstew said:
They won a big one, so it's going to continue. There's not much discussion left other than Apple is abusing the Patent system.
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I agree with you on this one, they are taking advantage of the patenting system, here's the kicker though. They are applying for and securing patents and until the actual inventors or idea makers actually patent and secure patenting rights, Apple will continue to patent other peoples ideas and secure them as their own.
Not only is this abuse of patenting, it's also that juries are awarding them the win. Anyone is able to patent an idea, even if it's not their own, as long as there is not already a patent issued for that idea. Apple is taking the legal route and patenting ideas, not only that but they are awarded the patent. A patent is there for you to take action upon your patent being violated.
I look at it as if Apple is saying the only way they can compete is to put other companies at bay by suing them for their patent infringements. Patenting "rounded corners" is absurd, period. Apple wasn't the first company to come up with rounded corners, they are the first to patent the design though, so thus it became their patent.
I think there are some things that should be protected by patents, I think a lot of modifiers and developers should take the time to patent their designs and mods in order to protect their ideas and hard work. Think of the pull down notification bar, who do you think came up with that idea? Probably not the person who holds the patent on it! I say in order to have an open and free market there should be something that are un-patentable. One thing that shouldn't be patented, I saw on Shark Tank and Mark Cuban said it was the most ridiculous patent ever and that those kind of patents are what is crippling the free and open market, that patent was adding a hole in a pocket so that headphones can connect to a device and thus allowing the user to plug their headphones into a device without needing to thread it up and under the closing flap... what a load of crap!
Apple, if you're so innovative and so bleeding edge, do you really need to sue your competition into bankruptcy or even to the point where they have to pay royalties because you patented something that you didn't even come up with on your own? To me, Apple isn't so much a technology innovator as it is a technology stealer (not saying that haven't had any innovations though)
This whole suing thing frustrates me, yet they have the legal right to do so because they secured the patent on ideas that they got from someone else. I am not saying Apple didn't come up with something on their complete own, although it would be hard pressed to come up with those things... I mean come on, they couldn't even come up with their own company name, they stole that from The Beatles owned Apple Records... gimme a break!
Oh and let's not start on Intellectual Property either, patenting ideas without having any prototypes!
Okay I will now step down from my soapbox, thanks for allowing me to rant
for your reading pleasure http://www.businessinsider.com/how-ios-5-copied-android-2012-5?op=1
Samsung just sold them $7B in CPU's. They wanted a quick way to get some money back and carriers aren't going to be willing to subsidize the production of their devices anymore when they can make real money off Android devices (especially SAmsung.)
elephant007 said:
I agree with you on this one, they are taking advantage of the patenting system, here's the kicker though. They are applying for and securing patents and until the actual inventors or idea makers actually patent and secure patenting rights, Apple will continue to patent other peoples ideas and secure them as their own.
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This right here is a fine example of the Patent System and it's vulnerability. It shouldn't be allowed to be patented if the Technology already exists.
elephant007 said:
Not only is this abuse of patenting, it's also that juries are awarding them the win. Anyone is able to patent an idea, even if it's not their own, as long as there is not already a patent issued for that idea. Apple is taking the legal route and patenting ideas, not only that be they are awarded the patent. A patent is there for you to take action upon your patent being violated.
I look at it as if Apple is saying the only way they can compete is to put other companies at bay by suing them for their patent infringements. Patenting "rounded corners" is absurd, period. Apple wasn't the first company to come up with rounded corners, they are the first to patent the design though, so thus it because their patent.
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This is correct. Apple is losing Market share, and it's showing. They are choosing to claim that Samsung (and other manufacturers) are 100% ripping Apple off, which isn't necessarily the case. If I recall, Samsung didn't own most of the Market share until after the S2 (which wasn't a complete ripoff of Iphone). One can argue the software icons are alike, but Apple's point is that Samsung products are "Too similar" and "confuse customers into thinking they're buying Apple products." This is absolutely ridiculous. Just the fact that they have patented the shape of the device makes my stomach twist. The thing about innovation (at least for most part) is taking someone's brilliant idea, and making it better. Look at how far the wheel's got.
elephant007 said:
I think there are some things that should be protected by patents, I think a lot of modifiers and developers should take the time to patent their designs and mods in order to protect their ideas and hard work. Think of the pull down notification bar, who do you think came up with that idea? Probably not the person who holds the patent on it! I say in order to have an open and free market there should be something that are un-patentable. One thing that shouldn't be patented, I saw on Shark Tank and Mark Cuban said it was the most ridiculous patent ever and that those kind of patents are what is crippling the free and open market, that patent was adding a hole in a pocket so that headphones can connect to a device and thus allowing the user to plug their headphones into a device without needing to thread it up and under the closing flap... what a load of crap!
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Apple is playing the victim in court but you're absolutely right, Apple saw the notification bar and implemented it because it's not patented. This, I would be fine with, but when they go and complain about someone else using their work for design then they go to court. It's all about who's got what in writing at this point.
elephant007 said:
Apple, if you're so innovative and so bleeding edge, do you really need to sue your competition into bankruptcy or even to the point where they have to pay royalties because you patented something that you didn't even come up with on your own? To me, Apple isn't so much a technology innovator as it is a technology stealer (not saying that you haven't had any innovations though)
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I love this part of your reply.
elephant007 said:
This whole suing thing frustrates me, yet they have the legal right to do so because they secured the patent on ideas that they got from someone else. I am not saying Apple didn't come up with something on their complete own, although it would be hard pressed to come up with those things... I mean come on, they couldn't even come up with their own company name, they stole that from The Beatles owned Apple Records... gimme a break!
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Well, hopefully with the Motorola/Google vs Apple lawsuits, things might change. "If you sue me and win, I'll sue you and win." It'll be a never ending circle until they agree upon some sort of agreement like Microsoft has with Apple.
elephant007 said:
Oh and let's not start on Intellectual Property either, patenting ideas without having any prototypes!
Okay I will now step down from my soapbox, thanks for allowing me to rant
for your reading pleasure http://www.businessinsider.com/how-ios-5-copied-android-2012-5?op=1
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I enjoyed reading your thoughts on this and it's great how similar it is to mine.
http://www.appy-geek.com/Web/ArticleMobile.aspx?regionid=1&articleid=4121798
Apple just give up the IPHONE sucks deal with it.
Check this one out
http://www.appy-geek.com/Web/ArticleMobile.aspx?regionid=1&articleid=4121798
Apple just give up the IPHONE sucks deal with it.
blackdragon79 said:
http://www.appy-geek.com/Web/ArticleMobile.aspx?regionid=1&articleid=4121798
Apple just give up the IPHONE sucks deal with it.
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Lol. This is the result of Apple telling everyone that Samsung's products are basically Apples. They've implanted into people's minds that Samsung = Apple, but Samsung < Apple in terms of $$$. So People <3 Samsung > Apple.
This is going into a ridicoulus childrens feud, were you do me harm then I'll harm you yada yada bs...
If this continues we might see a similiar outcome as the one in South Korea, where BOTH Apple and Samsung are facing a limited time ban on their respective products.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-19364875
A direct qoute from the judge proceeding the ruling
"There are lots of external design similarities between the iPhone and Galaxy S, such as rounded corners and large screens... but these similarities had been documented in previous products," a judge at the Seoul Central District Court was quoted as saying by the Reuters news agency.
"Given that it's very limited to make big design changes in touchscreen based mobile products in general... and the defendant [Samsung] differentiated its products with three buttons in the front and adopted different designs in camera and [on the] side, the two products have a different look,"
If only the CA jury had this insight and ruled the verdict in the same way, things would of come differently and had given Apple a wake up call and big slap in the face.
The Jury Blew it
A self-proclaimed "expert" pretty much decided the case and the rest of the jury went along for the ride.
Groklaw has a nice little article on it.
GPLLL said:
A self-proclaimed "expert" pretty much decided the case and the rest of the jury went along for the ride.
Groklaw has a nice little article on it.
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Doesn't that fall under conflict of interest and over rules the decision? Not sure how the court system works or anything, but in other cases this alone would go for an over rule and/or appeal.
Overstew said:
....Apple's point is that Samsung products are "Too similar" and "confuse customers into thinking they're buying Apple products...
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I have heard that this is what Apple is claiming, if I was an iPhone user that statement would speak volumes to me as to who Apple really views iPhone users... as idiots
I know not all iPhone users are pure idiots, Apple's statement sure makes their thoughts of their users known
Just so everyone knows I'm not bashing iPhone users, all phones have some users that are idiots too! HAHA
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