Develop Bugs

Is there anything good about WP7

Ok now... we all have heard whats bad, or not so good or what can be improved with WP7.
But on the other hand anyone has good news for all of us to contiune with windows and not jump ship to android or iPhone. At the moment I dont see the why I would want to buy an WP7 yet! maybe in few years when it matures as an OS.

Windows phone 7 gives you a lot of choice in hardware devices, unlike the iPhone, unless you don't mind being stuck with one manufacture (see how that turned bad with the iPhone 4 reception issue). I think this is a big point especially for people who like physical keyboards and different shapes or colours.
Now you are thinking "Android offers a wide range of hardware as well, so what is the difference?" One thing if find bad about the Android ecosystem is OS fragmentation. I know being open source is a big plus, but in this case it backfired because anyone can put the OS on any device, so we ended up with a lot of devices not getting upgraded by their OEMs/carriers rather than let Google handle updating devices.
Microsoft is tackling this problem by putting minimum device requirements so that any update Microsoft releases, it can be easily pushed to all kinds of devices.
So overall, I think Microsoft is approching this market in a balanced manner, they are not extermly closed (think Apple) nor very open (Google). Which is a good thing for developers and end users.
There are a lot of other things, like Windows Live and Xbox integration (if you care about those).

From a developer point of view, it's also the most attractive mobile platform that ever been made. It's amazingly easy to make complex apps and games, and it's a standard way of doing it, opposed to iPhone and Android's "lets reinvent the wheel" technologies.
Plus, it's the only phone development environment that have a visual editor (Expression Blend), which is a big plus for rapid development.
(Not to mention, you don't have to buy a Mac to code for it!)
From a consumer point of view, it's a strong phone, works with all existing services, specially all Microsoft ones, but also all the others. It'll be the first phone with Windows Live Messenger available on, and Zune integration.
Basically you get all the power of Microsofts platforms, in a single device, without the limitations of Apple. Everybody who's used to using Windows will get a greater experience with this phone, than any other phone on the market.
So it's a win/win/win, situation

I'm getting one just for the fact it has Zune on it, this alone makes it worthy of a purchase if you use multimedia heavily.

Also I wouldn't be surprised if a lot of the things the OP consider "bad" is what the majority considers "good"

Windcape said:
So it's a win/win/win, situation
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Hahaha.
Good points.

The biggest thing is the UI. Frankly put; it's innovative, attractive, intuitive, and just works really well. When you get your hands on one and play around with it for a few minutes you'll see.

I'm stoked about Window Phone 7. I know if won't have as much freedom out the door as Windows 6.5 but I've seen the demo's and from what I can see it looks great. Here's my top 10 good list:
1. Actual Xbox Live integration with achievements
2. Finger Friendly
3. Sharp modern UI
4. Hubs that bring in a multitude of information that covers the work of many apps, but all in one place.
5. Good minimum requirements
6. Easy and well thought out development tools.
7. Everything about Zune all in one Hub.
8. Great Social networking integration
9. Multiple exchange accounts, emails and calendars.
10. Great use of Office on mobile.

What draws me to WP7 is really metro. I've tinkered a lot with windows phones over the years leveraging different UIs, skins, themes, etc. But really my favorite UI for my phone thus far has been titanium. I prefer the typography. Being that wp7 is a titanium enhancement, it suites me very well.
darkmurder said:
I'm getting one just for the fact it has Zune on it, this alone makes it worthy of a purchase if you use multimedia heavily.
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You should be able to use Zune with any windows phone. I have zune pass and use my omnia II to play the drm music, so you don't have to wait for wp7 to have a "zune" phone.

WTB Zune Pass in Europe already!

Windcape said:
WTB Zune Pass in Europe already!
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It's great, my only compliant is that you have to backup your mp3s if you purchase them or when you use your credits. It doesn't let you redownload them, probably because of some legal nonsense.
It's not too bad with 25GB from Skydrive, and using the Gladinet client to map your cloud drive to a physical drive.

let's stop being "real" and start being realistic
I have a vague feeling that people on this topic are working for the Microsoft development team...
as a faithful user of the most advanced pocketpc ever built ever since it launched (htc universal or jasjar) I'll just reply to those "strengths"
First ond foremost, the windows mobile had its success because users were able to hack it and expand it BEYOND of what they payed for. if we limited ourselves to what M$ provided, this site wouldn't exist and the HTC would have gone bankrupt.
1. Actual Xbox Live integration with achievements
You have Xbox and yet you are going to be playing on a phone?
2. Finger Friendly
in addition to every single SW company having developed the touch finger application keyboard, there are devices with their own keyboards, which actually work MUCH better then the touch mode ever will because you can feel the keys and you're able to predict where the next one is, at least until they invent the physically morphing touch screen.
3. Sharp modern UI
simplistic doesn't mean modern....ever! there is a FLAT SQUARE and Arial TEXT on it...that's a post-it for retarded. SPB mobile shell for instance gave the smooth design and modern hi-tech look to 6.1 phones. their only limitation was the processor and the memory. but that's how the digital revolution started - microsoft made ever more demanding OSes and Intel made processors to match. If you start spinning in circles around an antiquated graphics and limited applications, why would they innovate?
4. Hubs that bring in a multitude of information that covers the work of many apps, but all in one place.
apps that cannot be made by anyone else without a license by microsoft. and no one is using microsoft products on their pocketpc's because they are inefficient, large and expensive.
5. Good minimum requirements
nokia's s40 phones require even less resources, and offer greater UI, usability and stability. and they are as customizeable as the win 7, and yet people don't seriously consider using them as a PDA capable to integrate with the market's dominant and upcoming applications.
6. Easy and well thought out development tools.
We'll see...
7. Everything about Zune all in one Hub.
Zune is a MUSIC PLAYER! PERIOD! it's function is to play music! what everything?
8. Great Social networking integration
if you're referring to that travesty of facebook integration, I used the Windows Live Messenger Beta and let me tell you how it works: the system makes assumptions that videos and most popular items demand our attention, and they are in big, while the rest is small, so it's not about keeping track of your friends, it's about flashing content to a moron public.
9. Multiple exchange accounts, emails and calendars.
Will we be able to activesync our device over the wi-fi or via internet??
10. Great use of Office on mobile.
I would gladly pay good money to see a microsoft developer use a touch-only phone to create and modify a corporate-standard excel or even word file...

Dude you are in the wrong thread.
This is where you should post -> WP7 is complete FAIL
vk2000 said:
I have a vague feeling that people on this topic are working for the Microsoft development team...
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Take of your foilhat.

vk2000 said:
I have a vague feeling that people on this topic are working for the Microsoft development team...
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Click to collapse
I'm not, but I'll apply for a position in 2 years time when I'm finished with my second bachelor.
vk2000 said:
if we limited ourselves to what M$ provided, this site wouldn't exist
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Funny, I thought that Windows Mobile development was the original topic of xda-developers. It's not like the name itself says so, no no.
vk2000 said:
1. Actual Xbox Live integration with achievements
You have Xbox and yet you are going to be playing on a phone?
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Yes. Welcome to 2010.
vk2000 said:
3. Sharp modern UI
simplistic doesn't mean modern....ever! there is a FLAT SQUARE and Arial TEXT on it...that's a post-it for retarded. SPB mobile shell for instance gave the smooth design and modern hi-tech look to 6.1 phones. their only limitation was the processor and the memory. but that's how the digital revolution started - microsoft made ever more demanding OSes and Intel made processors to match. If you start spinning in circles around an antiquated graphics and limited applications, why would they innovate?
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I see you have zero experience in usability or design. Go read some Jakob Nielsen, and come back when you find yourself in a suitable position to discuss usability design on phones.
vk2000 said:
4. Hubs that bring in a multitude of information that covers the work of many apps, but all in one place.
apps that cannot be made by anyone else without a license by microsoft. and no one is using microsoft products on their pocketpc's because they are inefficient, large and expensive.
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Clearly you been living in a cave for the last five years. The developer license also grants you the ability to host your applications on the marketplace, and is common practice for all mobile developers. Even Google have it for Android.
vk2000 said:
5. Good minimum requirements
nokia's s40 phones r equire even less resources, and offer greater UI, usability and stability. and they are as customizeable as the win 7, and yet people don't seriously consider using them as a PDA capable to integrate with the market's dominant and upcoming applications.
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See again you completely misunderstood what the customers want. And the minimum requirements is so you don't get ****ty phones like all Android devices from 2009 / early 2010.
vk2000 said:
6. Easy and well thought out development tools.
We'll see...
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No, we already seen. Visual Studio and Expression Blend goes years back, and is popular and known development tools. Microsoft have the largest developer community on earth (MSDN), and they are so far the only who managed to actually create so much community around their technology and tools. Even the Linux community can't follow here.
And most of the developers in MSDN are professionals, so it's used for solving real-life problems. And if you're a consumer, and not a developer, you won't understand the importance of this.
Also XNA available on WP7 means it's the first phone with a gaming framework available from day one.
vk2000 said:
7. Everything about Zune all in one Hub.
Zune is a MUSIC PLAYER! PERIOD! it's function is to play music! what everything?
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No, Zune is a online music-service, a desktop music player ,and a music-player device. And in WP7, the online service and desktop client will work along with the phone. A lot of us like to use our smartphones for music, for example, while biking to work or studies.
vk2000 said:
8. Great Social networking integration
if you're referring to that travesty of facebook integration, I used the Windows Live Messenger Beta and let me tell you how it works: the system makes assumptions that videos and most popular items demand our attention, and they are in big, while the rest is small, so it's not about keeping track of your friends, it's about flashing content to a moron public.
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Microsoft don't make assumptions, they got detailed statistics over the functionality people use in Windows Live Messenger. Just because you don't behave like the other 300 million users, doesn't make it wrong.
It's designed for the average consumer, and they done a very good job with that. More consumers = more people to buy our apps = more money for us.
vk2000 said:
9. Multiple exchange accounts, emails and calendars.
Will we be able to activesync our device over the wi-fi or via internet??
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Click to collapse
Both
vk2000 said:
10. Great use of Office on mobile.
I would gladly pay good money to see a microsoft developer use a touch-only phone to create and modify a corporate-standard excel or even word file...
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Click to collapse
Phones are less meant for modify, as for accessing the information in the said data.
It's handy if you're on the road, and want to pull out some data to compare with people you're discussing with or similar.

vk2000
3. Sharp modern UI
simplistic doesn't mean modern....ever! there is a FLAT SQUARE and Arial TEXT on it...that's a post-it for retarded.
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You nail that one!

Actually the font is Segoe WP. And the flat squares will be replaced with images and partially display icons among others.
Which makes it even better than just a bunch of techno-color icons.

clearly you guys are either very young or like to suck up to your (hoped) employer a lot
quoting the only author you know, doesn't make you smart, it makes you a charlatan. you should find a good dictionary if you don't know what that word is, since you clearly don't understand what I am saying anyway.
If you're going to play games on something small, you should buy a PSP
and
I've been following the IT development ever since I was 8 and computers ran on Windows 3.11
I don't require a degree in design to state clearly as a user who is going to pay 300-1000 euros, that a PDA should be
1) USABLE
2) reliable
3) USABLE
4) customizable and upgradeable
the fact that people are buying does not mean that the product is good, they're either poised with offensive marketing, like apple does, or they don't have any better choice! Statistics are meaningless more often then not, and you would know their significance if you studied statistics, 4 different types of sociology, macroeconomics and international financial relations, on your way to your M.Sc., like I did
games on the phone existed since Sun decided to make Java for mobile markets, so... a decade of "nothing new" to you . if windows 7 was able to reach the sophistication of the mobile gaming consoles, it would have been something, otherwise it's a child's toy, not suitable for business!
given you know nothing about the mobile market before you learned to talk and talk-back, I'm not surprised you would be satisfied even with yet another shade of "solitaire"
and as for my design capabilities, my photographic portfolio and web-design are always a winner what do you got to offer besides a big tongue and lack of arguments?

Windcape said:
Actually the font is Segoe WP. And the flat squares will be replaced with images and partially display icons among others.
Which makes it even better than just a bunch of techno-color icons.
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Click to collapse
we went from 3d transparent and interactive icons BACK to a SQUARE 1, junior...
you should familiarize yourself with the hard work of so many people on this forum who are trying to change the OS from "default to outstanding" for free and for the benefit of everyone

So you think your personal preferences makes up for the 300 million target users that Microsoft have in the Windows Live and Zune cloud?
You think you can invalidate a business-model just because someone done something similar before? You think the phone sucks because you don't like it, even you haven't got the slightest idea how it works, how to develop for it or how to sell applications for it (or for phones in general).
From a consumer, business and software-engineering point of view, WP7 is damn near perfect.
So how about you let us know how old you actually are, and what you actually study, if you absolutely want to include personal attacks in your qq'ing.

vk2000 said:
we went from 3d transparent and interactive icons BACK to a SQUARE 1, junior...
you should familiarize yourself with the hard work of so many people on this forum who are trying to change the OS from "default to outstanding" for free and for the benefit of everyone
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And do you have any idea why they did this? Have you ever read a usability study of a smartphone? Have you ever done a usability study of any device, or interface at all?
Or could it be that the professionals know more than you do.

GSMARENA is a ..beeeb.. . Pigs!

Hey!!! Just see new GSMARENA review about Windows Phone 7 that published Today:
http://www.gsmarena.com/windows_phone_7-review-521.php
i think a noob kid write this review:
Main disadvantages:
No system-wide file manager
No videocalling
Limited third-party apps
No Bluetooth file transfers
No USB mass storage mode
No memory card support
No multitasking
No copy paste
Too dependent on Zune software for computer file management and syncing
No music player equalisers
No Flash or Silverlight support in the web browser
No sign of free Bing maps Navigation so far
No DivX/XviD video support
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from today, nobody will trust gsmarena

lol talk about being a noob, why not take the time to refute his points instead of slobering all over the keyboard?
just a thought

They also said a lot of good things about WP7. Don't forget that.

There's nothing to refute about these points. Absolutely awesome, amazing review! GSMArena know their business.
Final Words
Windows Phone 7 is a great OS. Windows Mobile tried to squeeze a desktop-like OS in your pocket but that never quite worked. The seventh iteration of Microsoft’s mobile operating system takes a different approach – instead of loads of features through a complicated (and not very well thought out) user interface, it puts simplicity and usability first and then tries to add as much functionality as possible without making a mess out of the whole thing.
And it has worked – Windows Phone 7 looks like nothing we’ve ever used before, yet we never felt lost or confused. The most obvious thing works 80% of the time and the few tips sprinkled here and there taught us nice but not so obvious tricks without getting in the way.
Speaking of looks, Windows Phone 7 has unique aesthetics. Parts of it are absolutely gorgeous. It stays away from the faux 3D look for interface elements and instead keeps things flat but visually appealing. It’s the kind of look you’d find in a magazine or a well designed minimalist web site.
Sure there were some of us that didn’t like it. All the superfluous animations, UI elemnts flying in or out, they seemed too much at times. Not to mention those big headings that never did fit on a single screen.
Well, for those of you that feel attracted by the new Windows Phone looks, we’ll just say you’d be glad that it not only looks good but it’s also really simple to use. All the UI elements are designed so that the essential things draw your eye in while less important bits and pieces are smaller to avoid distraction.
But this level of simplicity is also limiting. Sure, you can do most things alright but some things are just out of reach. Copy and paste for one, even the limited number of colors for highlighting in Word, the inability to manage files that the phone doesn’t support and so on.
It’s not just the UI limitations though – the OS has limits too. We couldn’t even connect the phone in mass storage mode and the lack of Flash or Silverlight in the web browser was disappointing. To get rid of multitasking after all these years is a questionable move too, but not necessarily a deal breaker. It didn’t get in the iPhone’s way to success, did it?
Hubs are a great idea that will reduce the dependence on multitasking – a hub will aggregate related content from different apps, so there’s no need to switch between them. However, we’re a little worried that they might go the way of the Live folders in Android. They were another great UI idea, but most vendors and app makers tend to keep their content to their own apps.
The same thing might happen to Windows Phone 7 and its hubs – there are plenty of reasons for app makers to want you to use their app rather than have it share a hub with multiple others apps (brand recognition, ads, you name it).
If Microsoft was to put Windows Phone 7 on phones of the Kin kind, they would have been a hot sale. Great interface with seamless Facebook integration sprinkled with a few other handy services like the Zune Marketplace and SkyDrive.
However, the imposed minimum hardware requirements for a phone to qualify for WP7, practically guarantee that each and every one of them will be an expensive high-end phone.
And if you’re paying big, you’d expect high-end functionality. But Windows Phone 7 falls short of expectations on several occasions – Android 2.x and iOS 4.x will wipe the floor with it as far as power users are concerned.
For Facebook, web browsing and music though it’s the cream of the crop. There are no WP7 phones officially unveiled yet so we can’t be certain of pricing, but carrier subsidies will probably be a must.
And while 1GHz CPU and a high-res screen command a high price right now, Microsoft has its eye on the future. In a couple of years those minimum requirements will move to the mid range and Windows Phone 7 will have had time to make its name as a guarantee for a solid user experience.
So, in the short term WP7 won’t overshadow Android or iOS, but it will be big in the future. Some market analysts even predict that it will push Microsoft’s mobile OS market share to iOS levels by 2014 (with 2010 all but gone, that’s just 3-4 years in the future).
Now we just have to sit tight and wait for the official WP7 unveiling event this upcoming Monday, on 11 October, 02:00PM, London time. You can bet we’ll be covering it for you.
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anhyeuemmaimai said:
lol talk about being a noob, why not take the time to refute his points instead of slobering all over the keyboard?
just a thought
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The OS will ship with thousands of apps and it's only dependent on the zune software when it comes to media.

Maybe it was just me but I thought there review was excellent... I mean it was 7 pages long and picked every little thing about the OS apart. Whenever I want a review that is almost completely unbiased and very well done, I always go to gsm arena. If you look at most of their cons, they are pretty valid points. You don't have to agree with them that they're big enough to make you want to not buy the phone, but they are valid cons.

crow26 said:
There's nothing to refute about these points. Absolutely awesome, amazing review! GSMArena know their business.
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dear. 95% of gsmarena's readers are not professional...
noob users just see first page and say: wow! windows phone dont have copy and paste! wow . windows phone 7 don't have multi tasking. i hate it
this is xda and alls are professional... but...
i am moderator in bigest irani forum about mobile.(mobilestan . net) .. after this review all noob users say: "hmmm i hate windows phone because it dont have copy paste and multi tasking and video calling and .... ! so we migrate to android.... "
who say that windows phone dont have copy paste and multi tasking and ... ?
these are lie

well... whats wrong with the review.. it is the obvious truth.. isnt that what a review is all about. Tell all good and bad... and let ppl decide.. good on ya GSM..

I thought it was a great review. I'd also love to see the platform hit 25% user base, that'd be a nice load of apps.
I'll tell you what, if you told me a year ago that I'd be an avid Bing user, migrating most of my Gmail actions to Hotmail, and being absolutely pumped about the idea of a Microsoft phone, I'd have slapped you and called you crazy. I dig Microsoft's direction lately.

Honestly, it's one of the best reviews ever.

Great and correct review.

WP7 is better than Windows Mobile.

If you look at my previous posts I am been a regular basher of WP7 for last 4 months.. but now that I bought one and see everything in it, I think its an excellent interface and a great piece of innovative technology that surpasses Android and Iphone at many levels. I dont even have the Nodo update yet on my phone, but I still love this phone more than anything other I have ever used. Great piece of technology, Zune Pass, Marketplace and all Microsoft services run very smooth and just perfect.
I love how quickly I can switch back from Application to another with such a ease. Its great for Multi-tasking. Microsoft has also added little things which makes its very comfortable to use, like when I plug out the earphones, the music player automatically stops and dosents star blaring in phone speakers.
The proximity sensors on Samsung Omnia 7 works great with no fail. So no more of me accidentally taping on screen while on call.. its very handy, every touch phone should have it.
Everything on Windows Phone is smooth and bug free.
It has made buying so easy by billing it straight to my AtnT bill, that I no longer bother to get a 'crack' file and just buy the software if I like the trial. Gone is the software piracy problem, it will kill websites like ppcwarez...
Listening, exploring and buying music is such a nice experience, nothing like that exists in Windows Mobile and could not have been implemented using that platform.
Microsoft did a great work on Windows Phone and I have found new respect for people working their. Congratulations and Thank You.
PS - If only I could disable the Search Button sometimes and had a little longer battery life it would be great.

The shiny will wear off soon enough.
Both have their place, but WM is a bit more flexible and more universally useful ATM, especially an HTC Sense WM device like the HD2.
IMO.

what i liked about windows mobile is whats preventing me from saying wp7 is better.
I know the ui is much more smoother and lag free but i miss being able to wifi tether, use my device as a usb mass storage device, and being able to download albums, rar files, and everything from the web to my storage card on the go and update my library all without the use of a computer, i dont like how wp7 is dependent upon the computer like the iphone is. And i like being able to use the file explorer on windows mobile to manage my files.
i love wp7 and im getting one as soon as verizon launches it but those are some key features that are slightly holding wp7 back

deadwrong03 said:
what i liked about windows mobile is whats preventing me from saying wp7 is better.
I know the ui is much more smoother and lag free but i miss being able to wifi tether, use my device as a usb mass storage device, and being able to download albums, rar files, and everything from the web to my storage card on the go and update my library all without the use of a computer, i dont like how wp7 is dependent upon the computer like the iphone is. And i like being able to use the file explorer on windows mobile to manage my files.
i love wp7 and im getting one as soon as verizon launches it but those are some key features that are slightly holding wp7 back
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Then you need to remember one thing, Microsoft has upgraded WM 6.5 though several years. So what do you expect on the OS that has just been published for about few months?
Now is time for Microsoft to listen to their user and consider about it. Mango Update look quite bright to me...

Purple11 said:
If you look at my previous posts I am been a regular basher of WP7 for last 4 months.. but now that I bought one and see everything in it, I think its an excellent interface and a great piece of innovative technology that surpasses Android and Iphone at many levels.
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But you haven't OWNED a android phone or a current iphone.
Purple11 said:
I dont even have the Nodo update yet on my phone, but I still love this phone more than anything other I have ever used.
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You state in another post you have been using a 4 or 5 year old winmo phone followed by an old clamshell for 1 year.
Purple11 said:
Great piece of technology, Zune Pass, Marketplace and all Microsoft services run very smooth and just perfect.
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Are you sure this time? I'ld hate for you to change your mind AGAIN
Purple11 said:
I love how quickly I can switch back from Application to another with such a ease. Its great for Multi-tasking. Microsoft has also added little things which makes its very comfortable to use, like when I plug out the earphones, the music player automatically stops and dosents star blaring in phone speakers.
The proximity sensors on Samsung Omnia 7 works great with no fail. So no more of me accidentally taping on screen while on call.. its very handy, every touch phone should have it.
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Most modern smart phones have working proximity sensors and music player/headset settings
Purple11 said:
Everything on Windows Phone is smooth and bug free.
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if you consider a half finished operating system bug free... by all means
Purple11 said:
It has made buying so easy by billing it straight to my AtnT bill, that I no longer bother to get a 'crack' file and just buy the software if I like the trial. Gone is the software piracy problem, it will kill websites like ppcwarez...
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PRAISE THE LORD, he has seen the light, The sinner has been redeemed. WP7 Set him straight and it can work for you too. Nothing more heartwarming than a indecisive ex pirate leech turn over a new leaf simply beacuse he is too lazy/unable to find cracked software for his device. MOAR MORAL LESSONS PLEASE
Purple11 said:
Listening, exploring and buying music is such a nice experience, nothing like that exists in Windows Mobile and could not have been implemented using that platform.
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Thanks for your educated opinion. No way were there ever marketplaces for Winmo...... Except for the fact theree was. And yes installing .cab files was so difficult, If you were inept.
Purple11 said:
Microsoft did a great work on Windows Phone and I have found new respect for people working their. Congratulations and Thank You.
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How heartwarming. well WP7 fanbois your stuck with it now. Try show it an iphone, it'll prob fall in love with that and leave you guys alone.
Purple11 said:
PS - If only I could disable the Search Button sometimes and had a little longer battery life it would be great.
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BUT U SAYD NO BUGZ LOLZ :cry

hungry81 said:
But you haven't OWNED a android phone or a current iphone.
You state in another post you have been using a 4 or 5 year old winmo phone followed by an old clamshell for 1 year.
Are you sure this time? I'ld hate for you to change your mind AGAIN
Most modern smart phones have working proximity sensors and music player/headset settings
if you consider a half finished operating system bug free... by all means
PRAISE THE LORD, he has seen the light, The sinner has been redeemed. WP7 Set him straight and it can work for you too. Nothing more heartwarming than a indecisive ex pirate leech turn over a new leaf simply beacuse he is too lazy/unable to find cracked software for his device. MOAR MORAL LESSONS PLEASE
Thanks for your educated opinion. No way were there ever marketplaces for Winmo...... Except for the fact theree was. And yes installing .cab files was so difficult, If you were inept.
How heartwarming. well WP7 fanbois your stuck with it now. try show it an iphone itll prob fall in love with that and leave you guys alone.
BUT U SAYD NO BUGZ LOLZ :cry
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Hahaha it was fun to read.

Purple11 said:
...but now that I bought one and see everything in it, I think its an excellent interface and a great piece of innovative technology that surpasses Android and Iphone at many levels...
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Agreed... I saw YouTube vids on the first looks at WP7 and thought it looked dull and boring, but after flashing my HD2, the phone is now slick, smooth, alive... I notice everything I do is quicker...
I show my iGroan and Haemorrhoid mates the bing search, pizza, pick a store, get directions... Blows them away!

hungry81 is right in what he's saying.
If you make a new OS, its all about to add new stuff, and update the old stuff, but without quitting anything!!!!
Like windows did, take a look at it, in Win7 we actually have DOS, and the very old win95 Theme, with a very good backward compatibility.
Thats a good job, and I was hoping that microsoft would go on with this positive actitude in mobile devices.
But no, they quit almost everything, everything that made WM so great and different from any other dumbass users OS like Iphone and Blackberry.
And you can't say that's only because the system is new, because as I read in this forum, WP7 is based on windows CE like WM, so nothing revolutionary.
you absolutely can't give props to the marketplace!
With my WM, I go to the internet site or eMule and download every App I need, without having problems to find them with very much good freeware.
With the Marketplace, almost every App has a price, maybe little, but I don't like to pay for something that in the previous platform was for free.
So why does WP7 fail in almost every aspect??? I'm shure, its because they want to stop piracy, so they quit almost every bridge to it (I can't find any other explanation).
No filesystem, no registry editor, no custom setups and even no flash in IE.
Now the biggest question: why do I own a WP7???? The answer is, because Iphone is to expensive and It sucks even more, Blackberry and nokia are not made for such multimedia, and Android, its more like a fashion, maybe its here today but not tomorrow, and WM 6,5 is no longer supported by new apps.
I hope, WP7 will start to live, will get better, and more user-friendly with better Apps support, downloadable directly from the internet site.
My biggest fear, is that what happened to WM, will happen to our main computer, in Windows 8

XxAndrexX said:
hungry81 is right in what he's saying.
If you make a new OS, its all about to add new stuff, and update the old stuff, but without quitting anything!!!!
Like windows did, take a look at it, in Win7 we actually have DOS, and the very old win95 Theme, with a very good backward compatibility.
Thats a good job, and I was hoping that microsoft would go on with this positive actitude in mobile devices.
But no, they quit almost everything, everything that made WM so great and different from any other dumbass users OS like Iphone and Blackberry.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You know what happens to companies that make products that have all these wonderful features that nerds/geeks/techies love but no one else does?
I guess it is to be expected on a geek website that many members are upset with Windows Mobile going from a toolbox to a box of crayons, but somewhere along the way you should be forward-thinking enough to see it had to be done.
When it all boils down to it, in general iOS is better than all the other mobile OSes. Not because it can be more or do more, but because it is the most popular. Imagine if iOS came on several different handsets. So it is not for every specific person but in general it is well suited for most people.
Get busy livin' or get busy dyin'. Microsoft moved on, and I think everyone else should. Some people come into the Windows Mobile forum on a daily basis only intent on bashing the system. Microsoft wants Windows Phone to be the next iOS, not the next Android. Restrictions down to the number of physical buttons, no intended removable storage, and Zune dependent.
And you know the writing is on the wall for Android. What happens when more and more new devices come out with locked bootloaders? What happens when Google starts to tighten up the controls in the system? Business is about being a copycat. 10% innovation, 90% follow the leader.

nicksti said:
You know what happens to companies that make products that have all these wonderful features that nerds/geeks/techies love but no one else does?
I guess it is to be expected on a geek website that many members are upset with Windows Mobile going from a toolbox to a box of crayons, but somewhere along the way you should be forward-thinking enough to see it had to be done.
When it all boils down to it, in general iOS is better than all the other mobile OSes. Not because it can be more or do more, but because it is the most popular. Imagine if iOS came on several different handsets. So it is not for every specific person but in general it is well suited for most people.
Get busy livin' or get busy dyin'. Microsoft moved on, and I think everyone else should. Some people come into the Windows Mobile forum on a daily basis only intent on bashing the system. Microsoft wants Windows Phone to be the next iOS, not the next Android. Restrictions down to the number of physical buttons, no intended removable storage, and Zune dependent.
And you know the writing is on the wall for Android. What happens when more and more new devices come out with locked bootloaders? What happens when Google starts to tighten up the controls in the system? Business is about being a copycat. 10% innovation, 90% follow the leader.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
hey man you got me wrong. Read accurately.
Microsoft HAD to move to that "innovating" platform, but without quitting the old one.
giving some kind of connection to the old windows mobile options.
So everyone would be happy, the new bunch of stupid IOS-cloned users, and the old freaky nerds
but I'm shure, its for some anti-piracy reason...

One of the reasons why this WP7 is not selling so well
Is it is limited in many areas.

another thing that I didn't mention, is that everyone is saying that WP7 is so easy to use.
I don't like that interface.
I'll tell you why.
I updated from WM6.1 to WM6.5 and I must say, I hated that start menu so much that I went back to WM6.1
Ok, perhaps it's fingerfriendly, for some unsensible fingers.
but I had a hard and frustrating time, finding my apps and setups.
That's because there is no folder rule, something that made so popular windows OS
Same problem has Iphone and Android, and finally WP7.
It may be easy to use if yo have less than 10 apps, but imagine having 30 apps and scrolling like a fool to find your app, that's mixed with the other phone icons.
I'm not an Apps fan, and I always try to have less apps than possible.
But I like it organized, with some folder-gerachy.
Android its scary, its desktop is full of apps icons one time I was 5 minutes searching for the Cam without finding anything. so I let it.
I know everyone is thinking the same, and I don't know why there's people who say that WP7 is cool and the new wave of mobile-OS are the future.
Maybe they have to give a sense to their spent money, or to the fact, that possibly there will be no go back to previous cool features and improvements of WM6.1

doministry said:
One of the reasons why this WP7 is not selling so well
Is it is limited in many areas.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I dont think so, I think the reason why maybe its not selling so well is simply because many people are afraid to switch to their trusted Android or Iphone platform to something which is relativly new. But trust me, once they Windows Phone 7 Interface they will never go back.. I have never owned one Iphone or Android phone, but all my friends have them and they all borrow it to me for weeks because I am more tech saavy than them and I load usefull apps for them , so I pretty much know and have tested Iphone and Android at length.. but WP7 is nothing like that..
All my friends who borrowed me their Android and Iphones before now see my WP7 and the smoothness in WP7 and they all just want to instantly switch.. One just need to see it for more than 20 mins in a showroom and actually use the device for a week to see how good WP7 is compared to WM6.5, Iphone or Android.

argentocruz said:
.. Blows them away!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
My WP totally blows all my Iphone and Android users.. they are like 'WTF!!?? This is so nice.:

Lol at this thread... OP, you're entirely right, and it is a wonderful OS. It can only improve from here.
And at the usual people I won't even call by name... Go get some sun on your skins.

The King has no clothes on, http://tinyurl.com/687omad
I sold my WP7 for £300 poor poor beta OS, dual booting my HD2, WM6.5 and Android Gingerbread best of both worlds.

rhory said:
I sold my WP7 for £300
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
man, you are a lucky guy........or have you LOST 300????

XxAndrexX said:
another thing that I didn't mention, is that everyone is saying that WP7 is so easy to use.
I don't like that interface.
I'll tell you why.
I updated from WM6.1 to WM6.5 and I must say, I hated that start menu so much that I went back to WM6.1
Ok, perhaps it's fingerfriendly, for some unsensible fingers.
but I had a hard and frustrating time, finding my apps and setups.
That's because there is no folder rule, something that made so popular windows OS
Same problem has Iphone and Android, and finally WP7.
It may be easy to use if yo have less than 10 apps, but imagine having 30 apps and scrolling like a fool to find your app, that's mixed with the other phone icons.
I'm not an Apps fan, and I always try to have less apps than possible.
But I like it organized, with some folder-gerachy.
Android its scary, its desktop is full of apps icons one time I was 5 minutes searching for the Cam without finding anything. so I let it.
I know everyone is thinking the same, and I don't know why there's people who say that WP7 is cool and the new wave of mobile-OS are the future.
Maybe they have to give a sense to their spent money, or to the fact, that possibly there will be no go back to previous cool features and improvements of WM6.1
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Well Android supports folders.

Purple11 said:
I dont think so, I think the reason why maybe its not selling so well is simply because many people are afraid to switch to their trusted Android or Iphone platform to something which is relativly new. But trust me, once they Windows Phone 7 Interface they will never go back.. I have never owned one Iphone or Android phone, but all my friends have them and they all borrow it to me for weeks because I am more tech saavy than them and I load usefull apps for them , so I pretty much know and have tested Iphone and Android at length.. but WP7 is nothing like that..
All my friends who borrowed me their Android and Iphones before now see my WP7 and the smoothness in WP7 and they all just want to instantly switch.. One just need to see it for more than 20 mins in a showroom and actually use the device for a week to see how good WP7 is compared to WM6.5, Iphone or Android.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Well definitely there will be many users loving WP7 look and feel.
For me it was opposite - I fell in love once I unboxed it but after 3 months I was having enough of limitations plus honestly UI of WP7 is dead boring after 3 months, some tiles are so horribly unappealing. It seems sometimes like a sketch not finished UI.
But this is taste and individual feeling. Many users will catch it. People I know were not appealed at all. So it's very individual.
And I have no idea in what sense WP7 is "so good" compared to Android or iOS.
I didn't find any real reason.

doministry said:
Well definitely there will be many users loving WP7 look and feel.
For me it was opposite - I fell in love once I unboxed it but after 3 months I was having enough of limitations plus honestly UI of WP7 is dead boring after 3 months, some tiles are so horribly unappealing. It seems sometimes like a sketch not finished UI.
But this is taste and individual feeling. Many users will catch it. People I know were not appealed at all. So it's very individual.
And I have no idea in what sense WP7 is "so good" compared to Android or iOS.
I didn't find any real reason.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
There is little if any innovation in WP7. People Hub as already done in TouchWiz. All of the Social integration is pretty much same ole same ole. Apple already had GameCenter. Apple has iPod (i.e. Zune) and you could get All-You-Can-Eat music from services like Rhapsody on other platforms.
Office isn't innovative because ThinkFree and other apps have comparable functionality and integration in other platforms. Also, Office has been in Windows Mobile since 2002 or so... The functionality of Outlook/Office going from WM to WP7 has actually been downgraded quite a lot. For example, WP7 doesn't support Exchange Tasks and the calendar is, IMO, worse...
Nothing great about Push Notifications which are worse and more volatile than any other platform that offers them.
Tiles and Live Tiles are just Widgets with a different look and feel.
Microsoft didn't really innovate any much moving from WM to WP7, and the base OS is still Windows CE. They used Silverlight as a way to decouple the UX from the base OS, but they released it before it was finished (hence why there are 1.5k APIs keeping apps off the platform coming with Mango).
How well WP7 does depends solely on how Android and iOS develop going into the future.
Nokia will help MS but Google has way more manufacturers and Apple will continue to do well building their own handset. Also, with Nokia somewhat abandoning Symbian a lot of their users will jump to Android because WP7 does not have functionality on par with BB/WM/Symbian to allow them to migrade decently form Symbian to WP7. Nokia cannot do that without reworking a bit of the OS and I doubt Microsoft will want them to diverge so far from the reference implementation.
I think in 2010 they lost bigtime because they didn't live up to the hype. The carriers still have as much control over WP7 as they do with Android, and their update system is still only on par with Android and much worse than iOS. In addition, the launch hardware is rather poor and with the i5 coming out soon after Mango, and Android Manufacturers pushing the button (not to mention Google making some pretty good changes in their OS latesly - free Voice/Video Chat in Google Talk?! We don't even have a WLM and it's not slated to even come with Mango!) it will be hard for them to persuade switches. In addition to that, the pitiful state of RTM WP7 has already made them a laughing stock on many tech blogs and among users. They should have waited, IMO.
People who have Android phones won't tell their friends to get WP7 devices because of Google Talk/Services. People with iOS devices will likely push that. People with Blackberries will recommend Blackberries because of BBM, etc. People with WP7 devices are generally on the fence and many are lamenting the purchase. The OS is so functionally thin, and even will still be compared to iOS/Android with Mango, that it's really hard to enjoy it. Android Manufacturers are already getting better with Updates (Samsung leading the pack, suprisingly), so that is already no longer a reason to go with WP7...
A good smartphone will not make you feel like you are hampered because you upgraded from a different OS, and a good smartphone will not force you to double fist two smartphones because it's lacking in so much functionality as to be unusable without a different device to fill in the gaps.
WM had usability issues, but it was a complete smartphone OS.
And BTW, it had nothing to do with it having a decade of development. Even from day one it was never possible to call WM functionally thin compared to anything on the market (Symbian, Blackberry, Palm, etc.). The actual phones/devices running it was a different story.
And as a business user WP7 is practically useless. It isn't even worth consideration. I'd get a Blackberry or Symbian Anna device, instead...

What are the selling points of Windows Phone OS?

I'd really like to try out a Windows Phone 7, but It has to be on a Galaxy S2 version on TMobile. The Focus S would be perfect if it came to Tmobile. I'm a nut for that SuperAmoled Plus display. So while I wait and hope for the Focus S to come to Tmobile, what exactly are the big plans in the near future for this mobile OS? Will there be or are there advantages with having a Windows desktop and having a Windows phone? I currently have a SGS 4G and it's great on the current rom. But I have to admit I really love how smooth this Windows Phone 7 OS is.

Do you know that to toggle WIFI off and on they have released one big as* application that puts a one whole big box on your front screen taking all that space just to toggle WIFI off?? And the guy who is incharge of app scene some Joe Billfore something from twitter is encouring users to put four such large boxes on your front screen one each for BT, WIFI, Airplane Mode and Cellular??
He has been tweeting about it and everyone is raving about that application.. you know why? Because it LOOKS GOOD.. thats the only one selling point of WP7, nothing more than that..

That's the problem. Even with Mango, I can only think of a few selling points for WP7...and they're not enough to sway people away from the two 800-pound gorillas that are Apple and Google:
1) Facebook integration is second-to-none. You don't need an app at all!
2) The UI. It's smooth.
If I'm missing any others, please feel free to add to the list, but Microsoft has got A LOT of work to do if they even give a rat's ***sack about the platform.

Smooth reliable fast and full of unique features that are interconnected within the operating system.
Sent from my T8788 using XDA Windows Phone 7 App

Interface consistency. This is such a huge thing for me - it's great knowing that I can open an app and expect it to look the same as the rest of the OS. This is something Android lacks, IMHO.

killerb255 said:
1) Facebook integration is second-to-none. You don't need an app at all!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yes you do. Around 1/4 of my Facebook friends don't appear in my WP7 feed, due to them restricting privacy settings in FB. Also you can't delete items, fully see your "likes", see who's checked in to "places" etc. Also I can't get toast / push notifications without the official app. Sure my live tile will tell me when someone has said anything, but the phone won't buzz..
The FB integration is GOOD, but is it significantly better (i.e. a system seller) compared to say Xperia Facebook Inside on all new Sony-Ericsson Android phones?
killerb255 said:
2) The UI. It's smooth.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
NotTarts said:
Interface consistency. This is such a huge thing for me - it's great knowing that I can open an app and expect it to look the same as the rest of the OS.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Both of these points also apply to the iPhone. This is the elephant in the room when it comes to WP7; most people on here and other forums defend WP7 by comparing it to the flaws in Android only..
This is a false victory, as most of the advantages that are constantly rolled out (smooth non-laggy UI, consistent UI in apps, good useful app-store without tons of shovel-ware or malware) also apply to iOS.
The most frequent advantage people state over Apple is that rows of icons is "old hat" (compared to an alphabetical app list? lol), that iOS feels old now (subjective), or that they hate Apple (fanboy-ism). Maybe I should start a new thread; "what are the selling points of Windows Phone OS compared to the iPhone", because no doubt this thread will again be 99% fully of Android comparisons (you'll see).

There aren't that many unique features in the OS, which aren't tied to Microsoft services, which is an issue. Many people don't like Microsoft Services (i.e. Windows Live). I think they're Fabulous, but there have been scandals all the up to 2009 (Hotmail Password Leak, Bad Account Security, etc.) and people are just fed up. Overseas Windows Live is really strong, but lots of Microsoft services aren't there yet (or aren't as good in the US i.e. Zune, Bing Maps, etc.).
Another issue is the phone doesn't have that many Unique features period. It's an Evolutionary OS, not a revolutionary OS. Everything Microsoft tried to market, people looked at their phones from early-mid 2010 and said "Oh, well... I can do that on my Android/iPhone/Symbian/whatever. Even things like Bing Maps which works flawlessly on Windows Mobile, is botched on Windows Phone 7.
Major Marketing points, common rebuttals:
Live Tiles - But they're just Analogous to Widgets on Android (which can be updated via Push Notifications) and Tickers on icons. Most Andorid phones coming out have resizeable Widgets, as well. Most Andorid users don't care about Live Tiles because their Notification system is superior to WP7's by far. Apple is copying Android's Notification system. Microsoft cannot depend on just Nokia and new smartphone owners. They have to siphon off users migrating from other platforms as well - as Android has so successfully done the past 2 year or so...
It's fast - WP7's UI has a lot of dead space, uses a hardware scaler (so graphics are rendered at a low resolution and then scaled up) and tons of text. That facilitates higher performance. Android also didn't have Hardware Accelleration across the OS until Gingerbread (though some OEMs like HTC did a lot of modification to enable it in some areas i.e. Sense Weather Animations on the home screen and things like that). Games generally run better on high end Andorid and iOS devices due to superior hardware.
An interesting tidbid is that the Launch WP7 devies record 720p at 25 FPS, while Galaxy S devices do 720p at 30 FPS. Things like BT 3.0, BT File Transfer, etc. are also missing from WP7 devices (but may be in Second Gen Mango devices).
SD Card Support - A couple of phones can play roulette to add more storage. Most phones don't even have an accessible slots and in most markets customers weren't even given a choice in storage sizes. Dell is the only US WP7 device with (apparently, really good) choice (8/16/32 GB variant of the DVP).
Integrated Social Networks! - This has been common on Smartphones since late 2009. The HD2 had it. All Samsung Galaxy S phones literally had a People Hub (WP7's version almost looks like a carbon copy by comparison). In the Galaxy S II:
Feeds - Can see all together, or filter down to only one Service. Also notice the Message Tab, which shows Messages from most services including SMS, GMail, Email, etc.
Ticker to show you how many Social Updates you have.
Skydrive Integration - Already on Andorid phones via the Preloaded Office applications, which apparently are superior to Office Mobile for Editing and integrate with DropBox and Google Docs. From GSM Arena Review:
Editing offers almost a full set of options – text style, justification, paragraph formatting, bullets, even creating tables (that’s a first). If you’re editing an Excel file, you get a formula wizard, resize rows/columns, border style, merge cells and so on. Even full-featured PowerPoint presentations are doable.
You can do practically anything with the app – it’s better than the other mobile editors we’ve tested, even better than the Windows Phone 7 one (which had many editing limitations).
The app doubles as a file manager and also integrates with Google Docs and Box.net.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
No Flash or Silverlight Support.
Notification System in WP7 is on par with iOS4. iOS5 will be on par with Android for Notifications. This is a particular sore point for me. I think their Toast Notifications are awesome. I think Live Tile Notifications are no different than those tickers in Android and iOS. But the lack of a Notification Tab is a really really big issue for me.
Visual Voicemail in Mango : Click on Voicemail Tab on a Galaxy S and it launches the VVM app, which launches in < 1 second.
Integrated FB/WLM Chat - Andorid has Google Talk (with Video Chat) basically built-into the OS. Most users on iOS/Android don't care since they buy clients like Trillian or BeejiveIM to access all the chat networks they use in one application.
You can do group chat in those applications, and you can send more than just photos in some of them as well. WP7 Mango uses MMS to thread group chats (SMS), so some carriers are disabling the MMS because it's expensive in areas where unlimited MMS is not common or where the carrier infrastructure isn't as good. In that case, the group SMS won't be threaded properly. Replies form different contacts will be in their own threads.
I don't think App Count means anything, personally. As long as the big players get on WP7 as soon as they can it won't be an issue. They seem to be jumping aboard, so WP7 is good there.
The biggest issue I see is:
1. Hardware doesn't attract attention (when it does, it's not positive attention).
2. There really isn't any real Flagship phone, and it's almost impossible to have one due to hardware requirements imposed by Microsoft (no one can go above and beyond, except Nokia?)
3. It's not really a revolutionary OS. It's just Evolutionary, and barely that. All it does is take existing functionality and wrap it up in a different user interface/user expeirence.
Whether users choose WP7 over Android and iOS will not depend on functionality, since (esp IRT Android) those OSes do much of that, anyways... It will be because they prefer the WP7 user experience (and UI style) over those competing OSes. It won't be because WP7 hardware is better either, since Microsoft has made that impossible with their strict hardware specs.
Microsoft needs to get WP7 up to feature parity ASAP. The main selling point is not their services or one or two supposed killer features (like Bing Audio). It's the User Experience.
And when what you can do with the phone is so limited, it completely kills that story.
I think Mango is a huge step forward. I think the next year will be pivotal, espcially as Android and iOS update to ICS/iOS5 as there is likely to be a reopening of part of that rift again.
I don't think Windows 8 will entice many users to get WP devices, just as XBox Live didn't entice many of them to buy into the platform.

N8ter said:
Live Tiles - But they're just Analogous to Widgets on Android (which can be updated via Push Notifications) and Tickers on icons. Most Andorid phones coming out have resizeable Widgets, as well.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I agree; live tiles are nice, but they're not as good as widgets (which can have a lot more functionality).
Also relying on a "flip" animation to notify the user is actually worse than putting a little counter on the icon to show new notifications, as it doesn't really allow "glance and go" (one of the big selling points of WP7!).
N8ter said:
It's fast - WP7's UI has a lot of dead space, uses a hardware scaler (so graphics are rendered at a low resolution and then scaled up) and tons of text.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Indeed, this is a point I always make when talking about the metro UI; it's great...as long as you love looking as long lists of white text on a black background.
I was playing with a Sony Xperia Ray the other day, and the amount of eye-candy in their custom Android build is astonishing. Widgets zooming out and wibbling around, a FB ticker that whizzes through your FB friends profile pics as well as their updates, and a photo album app where pictures fly together then split apart. Maybe metro is more useable in the long run, but cool flashy stuff like that is how you sell a phone..
N8ter said:
Games generally run better on high end Andorid and iOS devices due to superior hardware.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
It's not down to the hardware; iPhone 3GS out-performs most WP7 games on 2 year old hardware:
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=1111945
N8ter said:
Notification System in WP7 is on par with iOS4. iOS5 will be on par with Android for Notifications. This is a particular sore point for me. I think their Toast Notifications are awesome. I think Live Tile Notifications are no different than those tickers in Android and iOS. But the lack of a Notification Tab is a really really big issue for me.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Toasts still disappear forever after 15 seconds don't they? That means if you miss one, you might as well have never got it. Also no toasts for basic stuff, like email or the social media integration; toasts are poorly implemented IMHO.
N8ter said:
I think Mango is a huge step forward. I think the next year will be pivotal, espcially as Android and iOS update to ICS/iOS5 as there is likely to be a reopening of part of that rift again.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Mango is a huge step forward *for existing WP7 users*. For other smartphone users, it just puts Windows Phone roughly on par with the current versions of iOS and Android. Unfortunately though, the Mango rollout coincideswith the launch of iOS5, iPhone5 and Android ICS; so again Microsoft will find themselves 1 generation behind. Can Wp7 honestly compete? Without some seriously new unique selling points, I don't think so.

Below is a link to a pretty good sized and unbiased review of Windows Phone Mango. Also, a link to the PC World series "30 Days with Windows Phone 7".
Unfortunately, threads like this in the WP7 forums turn into the same thread over and over again. You're going to have bias for, unsurprisingly, and bias against, surprisingly, in this forum.
Mostly you have people who purportedly dislike and/or hate the OS constantly lurking around a forum dedicated to a mobile OS they dislike and/or hate waiting for threads like these for their opportunity to continue bashing it.
Follow the links then find you a Tmobile store that actually has a working display of an HD7 or ATT store with a Focus and check it out yourself. Although, you'll probably run into sales rep bias there. Heh.
Hmm. Another theme in these type threads is that the OP makes the one post and then never comes back. Baiting perhaps or maybe just run off because of the ensuing brawl. Good luck.
http://pocketnow.com/windows-phone/the-ultimate-windows-phone-7-mango-preview
http://www.pcworld.com/businesscenter/article/239405/30_days_with_windows_phone_7.html#tk.mod_rel

Social Hub in the Contacts app on my Vibrant. Twitter integration in June 2010...

Wyn6 said:
Unfortunately, threads like this in the WP7 forums turn into the same thread over and over again. You're going to have bias for, unsurprisingly, and bias against, surprisingly, in this forum.
Mostly you have people who purportedly dislike and/or hate the OS constantly lurking around a forum dedicated to a mobile OS they dislike and/or hate waiting for threads like these for their opportunity to continue bashing it.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I'm confused by this post; where does "bias" come into play in this thread?? Can you explain the basis of these accusations? If you don't agree with the opinions here, rebut them with evidence; posting positive reviews as a rebuttal is odd and seems to show some sort of weird positive bias..
This is funny thing about posting on WP7 forums; if someone posts something positive, lots of posters will agree happily. But negative posters are accused of having some sort of grudge..?! I just don't get it..

Wyn6 said:
Below is a link to a pretty good sized and unbiased review of Windows Phone Mango. Also, a link to the PC World series "30 Days with Windows Phone 7".
Unfortunately, threads like this in the WP7 forums turn into the same thread over and over again. You're going to have bias for, unsurprisingly, and bias against, surprisingly, in this forum.
Mostly you have people who purportedly dislike and/or hate the OS constantly lurking around a forum dedicated to a mobile OS they dislike and/or hate waiting for threads like these for their opportunity to continue bashing it.
Follow the links then find you a Tmobile store that actually has a working display of an HD7 or ATT store with a Focus and check it out yourself. Although, you'll probably run into sales rep bias there. Heh.
Hmm. Another theme in these type threads is that the OP makes the one post and then never comes back. Baiting perhaps or maybe just run off because of the ensuing brawl. Good luck.
http://pocketnow.com/windows-phone/the-ultimate-windows-phone-7-mango-preview
http://www.pcworld.com/businesscenter/article/239405/30_days_with_windows_phone_7.html#tk.mod_rel
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
And we see why. It's because some people can't have a discussion with people who disagree with them. Instead of showing others what they're talking about, they break out the rhetoric and veiled assaults on those people instead.
The reason why the threads turn into flame wars, and you're free to have a look, is because in 90% of cases Pro-WP7 posters troll people and bait them into arguments (some of them quite petty). It's been going on for almost a year in this forum. I stopped posting for about 2+ months and just lurked (prolly made a post or two in the Vibrant forums in that time) and nothing changed at all.
Most people who post here have WP7 devices. Whether they like it or not is their business. However, this forum should be open to both positive and negative feedback.
Unless you can show obvious and provable inaccuracies in someone's post, it's good to keep the flamebaiting in Notepad on your own personal computer and off the forum. When you post it you do just as much harm as they do when they reply to it. I know what it's like, cause I see some people continue to further the argument ever after they've basically said "you were right" for no reason other than they don't like what someone else has to say. I'll leave names out of it this time.
The 30 days with Mango thread about Molly's review was a pretty decent example of that. The woman was personally attacked just for having a different opinion, with people nitpicking parts of her blog post that really had no big impact on the outcome of the review.
---------- Post added at 10:33 PM ---------- Previous post was at 10:32 PM ----------
Aphasaic2002 said:
I'm confused by this post; where does "bias" come into play in this thread?? This is another funny thing about posting on WP7 forums; if someone posts something positive, lots of posters will agree happily. But negative posters are accused of having some sort of grudge..?! I just don't get it..
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Lol, we posted basically the same thought the same exact minute.
JINX!!!
---------- Post added at 10:38 PM ---------- Previous post was at 10:33 PM ----------
Also, the idea that you can pick "the phone that fits you" from plaing with it in a carrier store probably < 1 hour makes absolutely no sense, especially when you cannot link your account to the device (Android, iOS, or WP7) and see what it actually functions like in real world use.
Reception Issues, GPS Performance, Battery Life, etc. Those are just 3 obvious things that simply cannot be tested in a carrier store, and if you're ready to spend cash any rep will tell you all of those are fine... Why wouldn't they?
---------- Post added at 10:41 PM ---------- Previous post was at 10:38 PM ----------
Aphasaic2002 said:
It's not down to the hardware; iPhone 3GS out-performs most WP7 games on 2 year old hardware:
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=1111945
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Terrible example. The 3GS has a HVGA resolution so there is much less pixels to render. The better hardware in high end Android/i4/iTouch still give better performance than WP7, though.

No doubt, someone will now post that they love their WP7, and if we don't like ours we should sell it and move to Apple or Android. This type of post happens at leats once in response to *any criticism*.
Personally I'm happy with my HTC Mozart Windows 7 phone. But I can see obvious flaws in the current OS, and in Microsoft's long term strategy. It is possible to like an OS and see issues with it, I still don't see where "bias" comes into play!
N8ter said:
Terrible example. The 3GS has a HVGA resolution so there is much less pixels to render. The better hardware in high end Android/i4/iTouch still give better performance than WP7, though.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
As I pointed out in the thread; simple games like Doodle Jump and Angry Birds run noticeably slower with a lower frame-rate on my Mozart. This is not related to the screen resolution, as they render in 2D.

I thought this was a "Selling Points of WP7" thread and not another "Android rulez them all" thread. WP7 has a different interface. Completely unparalleled compared to any other. That's why most people like it, is because it doesn't look like other phone OSes.
I still have yet to see a phone with such tightly integrated services. iPhone may have iTunes and all of these stores with it, but I still have yet to see so many big name titles for games on other phone platforms than WP7. Same for Office, too. Word processing is one thing, but the fact you can use a variety of cloud sharing techniques for documents is something I haven't seen being used by others. Facebook chat integration with your SMS inbox is brilliant as well.

Wow, I can see people are really divided on this as much as Android vs iOS. Since I use a Windows desktop and laptop, I was hoping there was some kind of advantage moving to a Windows Phone OS. I don't know anyone that has one, but since playing with one at Best Buy, I was attracted to how smooth and solid the OS felt. I appreciate all the input.

Aphasaic2002 said:
As I pointed out in the thread; simple games like Doodle Jump and Angry Birds run noticeably slower with a lower frame-rate on my Mozart. This is not related to the screen resolution, as they render in 2D.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
This is a silly assumption to make. Even the iPhone 3G can play Angry Birds at 60fps, and Windows Phones have shown they can handle relatively complex 3D games (Tentacles, ilomilo, The Harvest, etc). The real reason games seem to run slower than their iPhone counterparts is due to XNA being locked to 30fps - something that is rectified in Mango and has nothing to do with the capability of the phones.
Tempott said:
Wow, I can see people are really divided on this as much as Android vs iOS. Since I use a Windows desktop and laptop, I was hoping there was some kind of advantage moving to a Windows Phone OS. I don't know anyone that has one, but since playing with one at Best Buy, I was attracted to how smooth and solid the OS felt. I appreciate all the input.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I posted this in another thread but I think it applies here, too:
When I started my plan, I had the choice between the Samsung Galaxy S and the Omnia 7. I did all the research, I looked through forums like XDA, trawled the internet for reviews, tried it out in the store, etc, but ultimately I chose the Omnia 7 because everything just works. No need to fiddle with settings or customise it to suit me. Unlike the rest of XDA, it seems, I don't enjoy tweaking or hacking. I just do what I need to do with the phone and that's it. I gave up everything the Android ecosystem offers - customisation, features, app catalogue - for the ease and consistency of Windows Phone, and after two months I haven't regretted it since.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
People will argue and say that the iPhone provides all this, but no, they can't be compared at all because the iPhone is still currently one of the most expensive phones on the market. My Windows Phone Omnia 7 cost me $348. The iPhone 4, in comparison, costs $1150 - almost 4 times as much - on the same plan.

Over8ted said:
I thought this was a "Selling Points of WP7" thread and not another "Android rulez them all" thread. WP7 has a different interface. Completely unparalleled compared to any other. That's why most people like it, is because it doesn't look like other phone OSes.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
If you had actually read the thread and not jumped to conclusions, you'd see that I stated that quite directly.
I still have yet to see a phone with such tightly integrated services. iPhone may have iTunes and all of these stores with it, but I still have yet to see so many big name titles for games on other phone platforms than WP7. Same for Office, too. Word processing is one thing, but the fact you can use a variety of cloud sharing techniques for documents is something I haven't seen being used by others. Facebook chat integration with your SMS inbox is brilliant as well.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Android phones have superior service Integration to WP7 devices. It's not hard to see.
Everything is pushed to Google's apps on Android and this is achievable because their C2DM design is superior to the PUSH Notifications on WP7.
---------- Post added at 11:50 PM ---------- Previous post was at 11:49 PM ----------
The main selling point to WP7 is the user experience. It's not competitive from a functional point of view, but the user experience is compelling enough that it's addictive to a certain subset of smartphone users. It's up to Microsoft to either cash in on that experience or work feverishly to close the functionality gap between it and other smartphone OSes.
Also, "completely unparalelled compared to any other" is a bit of a stretch, don't you think? Especially given thoughts on user interfaces is 100% subjective...
---------- Post added at 11:53 PM ---------- Previous post was at 11:50 PM ----------
NotTarts said:
This is a silly assumption to make. Even the iPhone 3G can play Angry Birds at 60fps, and Windows Phones have shown they can handle relatively complex 3D games (Tentacles, ilomilo, The Harvest, etc). The real reason games seem to run slower than their iPhone counterparts is due to XNA being locked to 30fps - something that is rectified in Mango and has nothing to do with the capability of the phones.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
The fact that the game is complex doesn't mean the quality of the graphics in the game is on par with other phones. In the Adreno vs. SGX540 benchmark link I posted in another thread (that Adreno is the Second gen, not the first gen that current WP7 devices use) you can clearly see the Hummingbird's graphics quality is wildly superior to the Scorpion's. Microsoft is pushing the fact that WP7 uses a HW scaler to developers so that the developers can use low res assets and have the HW scale it up to keep performance up.
It's no secret that the GPU in launch WP7 devices is very weak compared to Hummingbird, nevermind Tegra 2 and esp TI or Exynos GPUs.
Dungeon Defenders has GPU bottlenecks on the Galaxy S phones. The WP7 devices would probably melt trying to run that game at the same level.
And like I said earlier, the scalar and the fact that Metro is a minimalist UI design has a lot to do with WP7's apparent performance. When running benchmarks which tax the hardware it doesn't keep up. However, it's ironic that the UI is touted as being flawless when you can't even scroll a list without it jumping here and there, and that won't be fixed until Mango is released for most of us.

NotTarts said:
This is a silly assumption to make. Even the iPhone 3G can play Angry Birds at 60fps, and Windows Phones have shown they can handle relatively complex 3D games (Tentacles, ilomilo, The Harvest, etc). The real reason games seem to run slower than their iPhone counterparts is due to XNA being locked to 30fps - something that is rectified in Mango and has nothing to do with the capability of the phones.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
As an end user, I don't care what the technical reason is - the games just appear to run worse. It's not just me, my girlfriend (the definition of a casual gamer, and a big fan of Angry Birds) noticed it too. She has now been left with the impression that iPhone runs games better than WP7.
By the way, I now have official Mango running on my HTC Mozart, and the framerates of the above games haven't changed. So Mango is not some magic fix; the developers have to re-build and re-release the games with 60fps support.

Also, let's try to keep it Civil. Too many threads getting locked lately.

N8ter said:
The fact that the game is complex doesn't mean the quality of the graphics in the game is on par with other phones. In the Adreno vs. SGX540 benchmark link I posted in another thread (that Adreno is the Second gen, not the first gen that current WP7 devices use) you can clearly see the Hummingbird's graphics quality is wildly superior to the Scorpion's. Microsoft is pushing the fact that WP7 uses a HW scaler to developers so that the developers can use low res assets and have the HW scale it up to keep performance up.
It's no secret that the GPU in launch WP7 devices is very weak compared to Hummingbird, nevermind Tegra 2 and esp TI or Exynos GPUs.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I'm not entirely sure, but I think the Adreno 205 is roughly equal to the SGX 540:
G2 is Adreno 205 (2nd gen WP7 devices), Nexus One is Adreno 200 (current WP7 devices), and the Epic 4G is SGX540. Doesn't seem to be 'wildly superior', but maybe you were talking about a different benchmark.
I agree though, WP7 devices are underpowered compared to the competition. I misread his post and thought Aphasaic was claiming that the iPhone 3G had better hardware than Windows Phones, but I can see that's not what he meant.

[Q] So is there a jailbreak or its equivalent for the Lumia 900??

So the nokia lumia 900 have been out now for months, the title of the thread says it: is there a jailbreak or its equivalent for the lumia 900? if not, is it coming in the future??
Thanks

bertin89 said:
So the nokia lumia 900 have been out now for months, the title of the thread says it: is there a jailbreak or its equivalent for the lumia 900? if not, is it coming in the future??
Thanks
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
ummm...<looking over my shoulder> ....is this your first windows phone....

bertin89 said:
So the nokia lumia 900 have been out now for months, the title of the thread says it: is there a jailbreak or its equivalent for the lumia 900? if not, is it coming in the future??
Thanks
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Sideloading, it's called a DEV unlock. MS stopped supported it a little bit ago.
http://labs.chevronwp7.com

actually you can still dev unlock your nokia lumia 900, just there isnt much you can do that way.

92GTA said:
Sideloading, it's called a DEV unlock. MS stopped supported it a little bit ago.
http://labs.chevronwp7.com
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I think you might be a touched mixed up here. Dev Unlock is still available. It requires registration with MS via marketplace, and does cost $$, though there are several options. The Chevron unlock took advantage of a hole in the OS Scheme to produce a similar unlock. Microsoft did close that hole in NODO I believe. For a short while a variation of the Chevron unlock was available, with support from MS. I believe this has now expired and is no longer available.
Whether or not a true jail break will be available for the lumia is unknown. MS appears to have put a good deal of effort into this type of security. This is not to say it won't be broken. Also, to say the great minds of XDA are on it. Maybe some of the great minds, most likely few to none. Most of the great minds of XDA are android based, where hacking, modding and rooting, though not exactly easy, is common.
With all that said, I'd like to believe, nothing is really impossible...except may be the Cubs winning the World Series.

It is somewhat ironic that the most secure platform (to date) is the least supported. You'd think developers would be more inclined to produce for a platform where their software isn't likely to be pirated. Obviously there is the issue of WP selling less than iOs or Android phones but that's due to lack of apps!

This is my first Windows Phone and so far loving it and I would not want to pirat any software.
Sent from my Lumia 900 using Board Express

danmoz98 said:
It is somewhat ironic that the most secure platform (to date) is the least supported. You'd think developers would be more inclined to produce for a platform where their software isn't likely to be pirated. Obviously there is the issue of WP selling less than iOs or Android phones but that's due to lack of apps!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
That is an interesting point.. I guess they (developers) care more about volume, than anything else.
People seem to love the platform tho.. You rearly hear people complain about WP, so that is indeed good news for Microsoft and Nokia.. the developers will follow the consumers.

danmoz98 said:
It is somewhat ironic that the most secure platform (to date) is the least supported. You'd think developers would be more inclined to produce for a platform where their software isn't likely to be pirated. Obviously there is the issue of WP selling less than iOs or Android phones but that's due to lack of apps!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
There are always opinions by closet experts as to why things are the way they are. I can recall when Android came out...everyone laughed...Same for iPhone, both have gone on to change the industry.
I'm of the personal opinion that Windows Phone's place in the world is less about Android and Apple and more about Microsoft. Microsoft, for whatever reason, gave away the smart phone market. Perhaps through lack of foresite...or perhaps indifference, it doesn't matter. They went from First to Worst.
As you look at a renewed Microsoft, and the progress it has made attempting to catch up, you have to be impressed. Google and Apple have a keen idea looking straight at the Windows Phone. In 2 years they've gone from Gen 1 laughers( just like android) to competitive models, without sacrificing their core goals.
The list of complaints about Windows Phone is interesting:
-No customization
-Rooting
-No apps.
I'm really not sure how important they are in the scheme of things. You want a picture of your dog or grandma on the home screen....hmmmm
No rooting....what this breaks down to is trying to get something for free. How can I hotload ...sideload...a favorite app...or by pass the fee for tethering...
No Apps. Just how many apps do you need? The MS Marketplace is approaching 100k apps.Everyday, more and more name apps are coming to Windows Phone. How is this any different from what Android and Apple did? They did not have a full library for years.
In the Hardware range, the biggest complaints are:
-No dual/Quad Core
-No SD card
-Lack of Hardware offerings
Microsoft has said, they will not offer dual/quad core until they can resolve the battery issues. I do not want to be one of those people who says... " Hey, I got a Quad core thingy"....whose battery last 45 minutes. A small core of hardcore people use their phones to a more fuller potential than MOST other people. Using cloud storage and streaming, office integration...exchange and enterprise mails with Cloud capabilities. My girlfriend uses her Samsung Focus S more fully than I do my lumia. She runs an entire HR department, from her phone. It's amazing.
No SD card. This is a good one. We all want the ability to carry our stuff with us. But SD card integration is a hack. Its a hack in tablets, It's a hack in phones. Microsoft has said, until they can integrate it seemlessly, its not part of the design of their phones. Apple doesn't do it. People respect them. Android does do it....And Android is another word for hack.
Lack of Hardware: Is not exactly the fault of MS, Android or Apple. They write their wishlist. The OEMs come back with the designs. It was very obvious, Gen 1 got the bottom of the barrell. This years Mango's releases, got better. WP 8 should see competitive hardware and design.
Once the hardware for WP is on par with the 10,000 yearly Android releases, then the real battle will begin. I read something about xbox the other day....xbox sells more games than sony and nintendo combined. And Xbox is replacing Zune, extending into TV, and has a huge focus on the Marketplace.
The bottom line reality is this, in my opinion. Its all about $$. Android is attractive because, to the OEM, its free. Apple and WP both cost the OEM $$. But, Android is the least reliable hardware out there. Apple may be reliable and attractive, but it costs more...way more to the OEM. They are looking for a viable competitor. WP falls in the middle, with the added luxuary of being able to sync directly with a PC, Laptop, and I bet, a Tablet.
I think the odds of WP being way more successful in the future is strong...regardless of the number of apps. Do you really need 45,000 weather apps to scroll through, before you decide to download Weather Channel?

lumia 900
Hi all new to this forum, recently. Bought. The lumia and love it compared to my last phone (android os). I came across a site called mobile9 that did themes for the lumia. I loved all the different choices of tiled live themes but to no avail I could not download the xap file as windows doesn't support it. I looked everywhere and came about chevron wp7 I sent the cert file to my phone in an email and saved the cert to my phone all looked promising untill the next bit. I was required to open the chevron.exe file it came up with two tick boxes one for a pin lock check and one for something else. I clicked the unlock button and it came up with a oops error saying make sure my usb is connected which it was and make sure Zune is up which it was. It says that it can't connect coz of that. So if anybody knows what else I can do to get those groovy tiles on my phone then help please and in laymens terms as I don't understand technical jargon. Hope someone. Can help real frustrated.

spampocket said:
Hi all new to this forum, recently. Bought. The lumia and love it compared to my last phone (android os). I came across a site called mobile9 that did themes for the lumia. I loved all the different choices of tiled live themes but to no avail I could not download the xap file as windows doesn't support it. I looked everywhere and came about chevron wp7 I sent the cert file to my phone in an email and saved the cert to my phone all looked promising untill the next bit. I was required to open the chevron.exe file it came up with two tick boxes one for a pin lock check and one for something else. I clicked the unlock button and it came up with a oops error saying make sure my usb is connected which it was and make sure Zune is up which it was. It says that it can't connect coz of that. So if anybody knows what else I can do to get those groovy tiles on my phone then help please and in laymens terms as I don't understand technical jargon. Hope someone. Can help real frustrated.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Probably can't use it anymore http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=1598062&page=2 and you needed a token from here http://labs.chevronwp7.com/ to use it in the first place.

alodar1 said:
There are always opinions by closet experts as to why things are the way they are. I can recall when Android came out...everyone laughed...Same for iPhone, both have gone on to change the industry.
I'm of the personal opinion that Windows Phone's place in the world is less about Android and Apple and more about Microsoft. Microsoft, for whatever reason, gave away the smart phone market. Perhaps through lack of foresite...or perhaps indifference, it doesn't matter. They went from First to Worst.
As you look at a renewed Microsoft, and the progress it has made attempting to catch up, you have to be impressed. Google and Apple have a keen idea looking straight at the Windows Phone. In 2 years they've gone from Gen 1 laughers( just like android) to competitive models, without sacrificing their core goals.
The list of complaints about Windows Phone is interesting:
-No customization
-Rooting
-No apps.
I'm really not sure how important they are in the scheme of things. You want a picture of your dog or grandma on the home screen....hmmmm
No rooting....what this breaks down to is trying to get something for free. How can I hotload ...sideload...a favorite app...or by pass the fee for tethering...
No Apps. Just how many apps do you need? The MS Marketplace is approaching 100k apps.Everyday, more and more name apps are coming to Windows Phone. How is this any different from what Android and Apple did? They did not have a full library for years.
In the Hardware range, the biggest complaints are:
-No dual/Quad Core
-No SD card
-Lack of Hardware offerings
Microsoft has said, they will not offer dual/quad core until they can resolve the battery issues. I do not want to be one of those people who says... " Hey, I got a Quad core thingy"....whose battery last 45 minutes. A small core of hardcore people use their phones to a more fuller potential than MOST other people. Using cloud storage and streaming, office integration...exchange and enterprise mails with Cloud capabilities. My girlfriend uses her Samsung Focus S more fully than I do my lumia. She runs an entire HR department, from her phone. It's amazing.
No SD card. This is a good one. We all want the ability to carry our stuff with us. But SD card integration is a hack. Its a hack in tablets, It's a hack in phones. Microsoft has said, until they can integrate it seemlessly, its not part of the design of their phones. Apple doesn't do it. People respect them. Android does do it....And Android is another word for hack.
Lack of Hardware: Is not exactly the fault of MS, Android or Apple. They write their wishlist. The OEMs come back with the designs. It was very obvious, Gen 1 got the bottom of the barrell. This years Mango's releases, got better. WP 8 should see competitive hardware and design.
Once the hardware for WP is on par with the 10,000 yearly Android releases, then the real battle will begin. I read something about xbox the other day....xbox sells more games than sony and nintendo combined. And Xbox is replacing Zune, extending into TV, and has a huge focus on the Marketplace.
The bottom line reality is this, in my opinion. Its all about $$. Android is attractive because, to the OEM, its free. Apple and WP both cost the OEM $$. But, Android is the least reliable hardware out there. Apple may be reliable and attractive, but it costs more...way more to the OEM. They are looking for a viable competitor. WP falls in the middle, with the added luxuary of being able to sync directly with a PC, Laptop, and I bet, a Tablet.
I think the odds of WP being way more successful in the future is strong...regardless of the number of apps. Do you really need 45,000 weather apps to scroll through, before you decide to download Weather Channel?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Excellent post. Very much how I feel after using ICS, IOS for years.
Happily a WP7 user and will NEVER go back.

EMINENT1 said:
Excellent post. Very much how I feel after using ICS, IOS for years.
Happily a WP7 user and will NEVER go back.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Thank you. However, I was a first generation Adopter, from, WM 6.5. I was NOT happy. I ran to Android and stayed there for a year. That year seemed like 5 though. I went through...oh heck....you see my sig line. There is something to be said for a phone that just works.
There will always be phones that have features you wish yours had. But, I very much try to be fair about it, meaning....do I want that ability to by pass fees....or do I truely think that phone is better. For me the Nexus 1 was awesome....I still have it. When the hacks took over and started mucking with it....some of the functionality lost its luster....and the excitment about a phone that works disappeared.
I'll be honest here.....since I got my Samsung Focus S, coming over from a Droid Bionic, I have not looked at an Android. I was focued solely on WP. When the 900 came out....I've looked at nothing else. I have had to adjust my impressions of the phones....instead of thinking ...whats next....I now think...what can I do. I've experienced no lack of focus or functionality with my Lumia since I turned it on. Using the cloud, I now use it for about 80% of all my electronic needs away from the Desktop computer at work. I turn on the laptop at home occasionally. I have a Kindle Fire, yes, a droid, for my reading pleasure. But Windows Phone has solidified my preference for a simple solid device...that does not require hacking to extend functionality or evade costs. Thats not a jab at people who do root. I've just grown tired of it. Want wifi to really work....install this hack. What to tether...for free...install this hack..but don't complain about what you can't do afterwards...
I like the direction of Windows Phone. Its not perfect, wasn't designed to be. But I am looking forward to WP8 and Win8 tablets and integration across the board. Its just simple...and it just works...

@Alodar1
I like what you wrote in this thread!
I am expecting a Lumia 900 in the mail, but was surprised that WP7 does not allow WIFI to stay on after sleep. Now I am considering selling the 900 since I find myself a lot of times in areas with no reception and where WIFI is abundant (university campus).

Ringtones
Number one reason for me to jailbreak my Lumia 900 is to assign full songs as ringtones. No, please don't tell me cut & edit songs it's a chores, really. I want it just touch and pick. Yes, I am still using my HTC android phone to date and the lumia is for Tom & Jerry entertainment D). If the Lumia 900 is announced non-upgrade-able to Apollo then mine will go on craigslist. I bet many lumia 900 owners will be pissed as well.
My first smartphone ever was a WinMo and I say that I would defend Microsoft mobile platform. However, WinPhone isn't really inbetween iOS and Android in terms of functionality. iOS locks everything down along with Apple the only hardware maker. Android has flash and other goodies customizations and comes in many forms from different OEMs. WinPhone, really, is just a locked down optimized OS and different form factors! It doesn't get popular because it doesn't have goodies on both side, namely, FLASH. Form factor isn't enough to buy Android users, and locked down system won't sway iOS users either, because WinPhone comes quite late into the game. Honestly, integrating flash and allowing freedom of ringtones would make WinPhone more attractive to the average consumers (they want to visit flash videos on the go, they want to hear their custom ringtones). Bottom line is WinPhone offers nothing new, feature wise, to the mobile world... Plus, Microsoft made a very bad move with initial WinPhone release: an incomplete OS. The result was obvious that it couldn't compete with the other two established mobile platforms and lost its ground even further.

Damn, had no idea how important, full length custom ringtones were. Took me 15 minutes to make nine of them. And there are apps that will pluck clips from the Internet for you, or even do the editing part for your full length tracks. Full length ringtones are resource hogs. And have no place in WP.
Sent from my HTC Surround using Board Express

I agree with those who have issue with certain customization issues. What I want from my 900 is the ability to add whatever ringtones I want, whatever sounds for sms alerts I want and a full blown file explorer.
I don't care about locks and I don't care about paying for apps. As far as I'm concerned, someone took the time to make the app it only makes sense they get paid for it. I view apps the same way I view music. If it's a quality product I'll gladly pay for it. ...don't get me started on what I think if it's not a quality product.
All that being said I want to be able to add sounds I want to be able to add and organize my pictures (the way I want) and I want to be able to add the apps I want. (some perfectly good third party apps that aren't on the marketplace for whatever reason, I'm speaking of the batter percentage app)
All this said I love my 900 and I do hope Apollo will solve the couple of minor issues because if it does, well it will just be that much better now won't it.

xsever said:
@Alodar1
I like what you wrote in this thread!
I am expecting a Lumia 900 in the mail, but was surprised that WP7 does not allow WIFI to stay on after sleep. Now I am considering selling the 900 since I find myself a lot of times in areas with no reception and where WIFI is abundant (university campus).
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
And if it doesn't work for you, you should move to something that does. Its why you buy certain phones in the first place. I've never thought about WIFI. I have strong wifi at home and at work....so I never really miss anything. I might have to do a test sometime...to see how I could be impacted with wifi off, during a rest period....it may change my mind....

jimski said:
Damn, had no idea how important, full length custom ringtones were. Took me 15 minutes to make nine of them. And there are apps that will pluck clips from the Internet for you, or even do the editing part for your full length tracks. Full length ringtones are resource hogs. And have no place in WP.
Sent from my HTC Surround using Board Express
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Anyone who wants custom ringtones and make them pretty quick for their windows phone there is an app called YouRang which is very easy to use and its GREAT!!! also you can make ringtones quickly!

xsever said:
@Alodar1
I like what you wrote in this thread!
I am expecting a Lumia 900 in the mail, but was surprised that WP7 does not allow WIFI to stay on after sleep. Now I am considering selling the 900 since I find myself a lot of times in areas with no reception and where WIFI is abundant (university campus).
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
you heard wrong
my wifi is always on and working in the background