I have had about 5 android phones and I got the play(usa). When I got it there wasnt any root for it yet. As u know there is now. My issue is this, with every phone ive had I have never seen so many people willing to help someone root there phone. Untill i got This one. I dont need root but im one of them people who wants to cause I can. I have never bricked any phone ive used. I have altered every smartphone ive used. From winmo to the dare to android The point of these forums is to help one another. Not become rude and say screw you figure it out yourself. You all must remember not all of us are familiar with every aspect of every phone. Im not sure if most of u r so rude because u have no life but carma is a *****. To the dev helping and r willing to share what they know thank you you are and what should be what these forums are built for. Tho some are not able to pay for your time. I will be the one to say thank you without your effort we would not have what we have today. Again thank you. And to the rest take a look at the ass u have become.
You used the [Q] tag even though there was no question...and it's Karma, just saying. I agree though that some members on here are incredibly rude when they could be useful, but still, this thread didn't need the "Question" tag.
[Rant from a person who, in the measure of his possibilities, has contributed to all the developments going on here]
1) Learn to spell your own language, and some lessons on punctuation meanwhile. It is insulting to people who have English as a second or third language (a good share of the users, if not the majority) and have to spend years in cubicles learning English well enough to be understood when English-speaking natives don't even try to make themselves understandable.
2) It's exhausting to read loads of poorly written (and therefore hard to understand) questions about the same topic. It's more exhausting when they're all actually the same question, but the person who asks didn't actually care to search properly for his answer. Of course, he hasn't found an answer because he doesn't want to spend any effort in reading, summarising and extracting the proper lessons, and because in case that he reads and "does his homework", there's a good chance that what he finds is... a poorly written (and therefore hard to understand) question, which deters him from reading further.
3) I have a life. A life that is well spent when I can be helpful to others. When others don't want me to be helpful, and that shows when they don't bother to communicate their needs properly, my life is a bit unhappier. I want to help, so let me. Writing "im one of them people who wants to cause "I can" implies that you're hostile towards my help, or anyone else's. And when this kind of people are hostile, and it's clear that they're hostile towards you because they don't make the basic effort to communicate with you, there's a thin line between giving a grudging answer and sending them to hell.
4) Basic idea: you don't want to be helped, so help yourself. You don't want to read the threads that are already open and telling you all you want to know, so don't ask us to answer to your own thread. You're hostile towards others by not trying to communicate with them, and by expelling what is basically noise: expect hostility and more noise to come back to you. As you very well say, karma is a *****.
[/Rant from a person who, in the measure of his possibilities, has contributed to all the developments going on here]
i did not see the question :S
1. How do you know they don't even try to make themself understandable, you might choose a more suitable word, you 'assume' they don't. Some are better at things than others don't demean people for their spelling nor grammer. I will agree that one should retain from using txt/sms language in posts.
2. Yes this forum is already getting cluttered up with the same questions. If it annoyes you don't click on the thread. If you do then choose to help either way it's written. Point the OP to the other(s) thread(s) or even answer without hostility. You choose how to react.
3. They might be hostile and then you choose to react and choose to return it. If you want to help, then help either way and do it without remarks. What does it matter. If it makes you happier when helping then do it, choose to do it no matter the language, grammr and spelling, hell even the tone. Karma works both ways, what you give is what you recieve. So if I get it right one needs to meet your standrd of spelling and grammer to be helped, that just bs. Help is a gift to others and you don't give anybody anything to expect to get anything back then it's not a gift but a trade. Everybody has a life what has that got to do with it unless you imply that they wasting your time by posting unreadable posts, you choose to read.
4. I agree with you on this, if people won't spend the time on helping themself others won't help them. If they have a hostile tone they'll get that back. That's how karma works. You on the other hand always have a choise on how to react. It's always your choise, so what you give is up to you and not depending on what others might or might not post in a thread.
I understand your point of view on this matter and I'm not saying that meeting people with open arms is easy and not getting annoyed when the same person put up 2-3 threads with the same problem/issue. I react aswell and get annoyed and for a few secs I feel the urge to post a negative response, but I don't. I mean we're all human and have the same reaction. The thing is how you respond to them, how you meet the world on a daily basis
Regards Dousan...
Hope I make myself understandable
e: Karma is not a ***** it reflects what you do and how you act in life
The question (that was answered) is why are some people developing and using sony play so rude. I undetstand getting frustrated because of there ignorance. However, wouldnt it be just as easy to answer there question? More time and effort is spent being an ass that is needed. Nowhere in my article did I say I needed help. No I do not have a rooted phone. not because I cannot but because I myself am waiting for a Oneclick root. I use my phone as my internet. For a 150 mb program it takes about 4 hours to download. Ill wait.
For logseman, im glad it took you forever to read my post. Its less time you can spend being a **** to someone else. For not being able or " hard to understand" you sure was able to to reply with ease. If it means we english - speaking natives have to deal with people like yourself, ill pass. People like you are why the world is the way it is today. Try helping a little more. Next time you get the desire to be an ass while replying, try being helpful, even if the question has been answered. Yes they could be being lazy and not willing to help themselves. But rude reply is Just as lazy and unproductive.
lilbuddy419 said:
The question (that was answered) is why are some people developing and using sony play so rude. I undetstand getting frustrated because of there ignorance. However, wouldnt it be just as easy to answer there question? More time and effort is spent being an ass that is needed. Nowhere in my article did I say I needed help. No I do not have a rooted phone. not because I cannot but because I myself am waiting for a Oneclick root. I use my phone as my internet. For a 150 mb program it takes about 4 hours to download. Ill wait.
For logseman, im glad it took you forever to read my post. Its less time you can spend being a **** to someone else. For not being able or " hard to understand" you sure was able to to reply with ease. If it means we english - speaking natives have to deal with people like yourself, ill pass. People like you are why the world is the way it is today. Try helping a little more. Next time you get the desire to be an ass while replying, try being helpful, even if the question has been answered. Yes they could be being lazy and not willing to help themselves. But rude reply is Just as lazy and unproductive.
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Use the search button. More time and effort is spent answering questions that have already been answered multiple times than is needed.
lilbuddy419 said:
For logseman, im glad it took you forever to read my post. Its less time you can spend being a **** to someone else. For not being able or " hard to understand" you sure was able to to reply with ease. If it means we english - speaking natives have to deal with people like yourself, ill pass. People like you are why the world is the way it is today. Try helping a little more. Next time you get the desire to be an ass while replying, try being helpful, even if the question has been answered. Yes they could be being lazy and not willing to help themselves. But rude reply is Just as lazy and unproductive.
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+1........
zerojay said:
Use the search button. More time and effort is spent answering questions that have already been answered multiple times than is needed.
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Look I get that. I understand people are sick of the same questions. But directing them where it is or simply saying use search. Is better then some of the stuff I have read. Some ones reply was if you need step by step instructions im not helping you. Your a newbee and shouldn't be rooting. I dont know how to use every program available for android rooting but I can fallow directions. This is how I have rooted all of my smartphones.
If you don't understand why writing poorly and not bothering to state your problem clearly is a hostile act towards the people who potentially want to help you, I don't have anything more to say about this topic.
If I've been helpful to people in this forum, that's for them to decide. Ask Blagus, Mills, Ashergray, Yifanlu... Perhaps I wasn't of great assistance to them, but they will probably say that I've done what was in my reach to help. And perhaps 117 thanks in my counter, without me ever having developed anything, might mean that perhaps sometimes I may be making myself helpful.
I do not wish to argue further. By all means, rape your language, transform your posts into hieroglyphic loads of nonsense which people have to decipher with a Rosetta Stone, only to discover that it's the same question asked 3 threads below. As you can guess, I couldn't care less. But don't try to subvert what's right (asking for help) and what's wrong (being lazy and impolite).
It took me about 2 minutes on this forum to figure out how to root my phone - was a very easy process compared to my previous Acer. As someone who is new to the Play scene this forum is about the same as any other, some helpful, some rude.. I don't see what the issue is...
Just because people are so called "newbs" they post on here thinking they will get the answer quicker than searching themselves. Which is untrue. Sometimes people get flamed, sometimes they get no answer at all and in the time they are waiting for an answer they could have found it with a google search or xda search.
If people dont know how to use xda's search then google it. Googling "rooting xperia play" then clicking on the "More results from forum.xda-developers.com ยป" shows all the thread related to rooting posted on the xda xperia play fourms.
I fully understand what you are saying and i personally dont see the point in flaming newbs since at one point we all started there. The Xperia Play was my first android phone so i started off knowing nothing and the reason i never got flamed was because if i needed help i would always google it first then use xda search just incase.
People are only rude to those who ask a question that has been answered before...
You come to the forums unwilling to read anything... Instead you post a thread asking for help that already has a guide out 5 threads down....
Did you expect warm welcomes for being lazy?
Yet you are trying to justify that being lazy is the correct way and everyone else should spend time and effort to search an existing thread and link it to your lazy ass...I got two words for you. **** off =D
You born after 1990?
Sent from my XPlay using XDA App.
that's exactly what he was talking about
Deoxlar said:
People are only rude to those who ask a question that has been answered before...
You come to the forums unwilling to read anything... Instead you post a thread asking for help that already has a guide out 5 threads down....
Did you expect warm welcomes for being lazy?
Yet you are trying to justify that being lazy is the correct way and everyone else should spend time and effort to search an existing thread and link it to your lazy ass...I got two words for you. **** off =D
You born after 1990?
Sent from my XPlay using XDA App.
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The op's point has just been proven.
Sent from my R800i using Tapatalk
it's not rude if I'm delivering it in a friendly tone though
He wanted to bring out the "smart" in us though.. So it's not rude to do what he asked.
Sent from my XPlay using XDA App.
Logseman said:
If you don't understand why writing poorly and not bothering to state your problem clearly is a hostile act towards the people who potentially want to help you, I don't have anything more to say about this topic.
If I've been helpful to people in this forum, that's for them to decide. Ask Blagus, Mills, Ashergray, Yifanlu... Perhaps I wasn't of great assistance to them, but they will probably say that I've done what was in my reach to help. And perhaps 117 thanks in my counter, without me ever having developed anything, might mean that perhaps sometimes I may be making myself helpful.
I do not wish to argue further. By all means, rape your language, transform your posts into hieroglyphic loads of nonsense which people have to decipher with a Rosetta Stone, only to discover that it's the same question asked 3 threads below. As you can guess, I couldn't care less. But don't try to subvert what's right (asking for help) and what's wrong (being lazy and impolite).
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So..... when did this become an english language forum?
I don't understand why you get so angry that you have to use our superior language.
There was no point of sending the Spanish Armada (which sunk btw) to simply point someone in the right direction.
I'm not angry that I have to use English. I write much more English than Spanish these days. What makes me unhappy is that I have to decipher poor writing, and it's adding insult to injury when the one who writes poorly is a native speaker. That applies to the three languages I happen to know: Spanish, English and German. Writing your own language poorly is a conscious choice when you're all literate (as you write in forums which requires you to know how to read) and perfectly capable of using proper English (as is the case here, since it's a USAn guy and an English sidekick, and you're from NZ), and choosing to write poorly and making yourself hard to understand is disrespectful towards the people who read you.
Logseman said:
I'm not angry that I have to use English. I write much more English than Spanish these days. What makes me unhappy is that I have to decipher poor writing, and it's adding insult to injury when the one who writes poorly is a native speaker. That applies to the three languages I happen to know: Spanish, English and German. Writing your own language poorly is a conscious choice when you're all literate (as you write in forums which requires you to know how to read) and perfectly capable of using proper English (as is the case here, since it's a USAn guy and an English sidekick, and you're from NZ), and choosing to write poorly and making yourself hard to understand is disrespectful towards the people who read you.
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I agree with this, since people are not writting an SMS there is no reason to write poorly, I actually stop reading the thread at the 3rd line but i saw Logseman reply and got interested
I'm also a "Newbie", my Xperia Play was my first android and I rooted my Play at the first try. You just have to do a quick search and follow instructions step by step. There is always an answer for almost every problem you can have, and if there is a new problem the first ones that will notice are advanced users that will post an answer.
Deoxlar said:
People are only rude to those who ask a question that has been answered before...
You come to the forums unwilling to read anything... Instead you post a thread asking for help that already has a guide out 5 threads down....
Did you expect warm welcomes for being lazy?
Yet you are trying to justify that being lazy is the correct way and everyone else should spend time and effort to search an existing thread and link it to your lazy ass...I got two words for you. **** off =D
You born after 1990?
Sent from my XPlay using XDA App.
First off no where in my letter did I say I was looking for help. I was only referring to the people who have asked. nor did I say I could not use a search. Yes I am waiting for a one click but because the dev of Verizon version asked if we could refrain from asking for a code and the stuff needed takes to long to download at 76k. No I am not suggesting lazy is the right way however nor is being like you. Is called being nice try it **** bag. And 1980 and if any of the rude inbread ****s cant understand this let me know ill explain it. For the people who have constructive criticism, Thank you for your time.
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Related
It's like a cancer. One person is rude and cruel so it rubs off until it's so unhealthy everyone lashes out at everyone. I could care less how many "noobs" ask questions. Answer it if you like or else ignore it. You people need some serious help!
Waiting to get banned and flamed!?!
because all these stupid n00bs came from hofo thinking that this was a download WM6 only place and not a R&D type forum... the whole point of xda DEVELOPERS is to program code and other wise develope things for our PDA not to come here and ask "how come my symbols are all messed up after i flashed this rom" or how "come my hermes has a tri-colored screen and thats it" So we get to the point of hating every stupid question that it asked because its asked 100000000000000000000000000000000000000 times over and over since no one can use google or the search button/....
Somebody please delete this thread. It is useless and annoying.
its really not a worthless topic...but perhaps it is here.
bottom line is there really is NO excuse ever to be an a-hole.
I could give you 5 sure fire ways to deal with the 'problem' straight-up.....
from the moderators standpoint...and inner-forum standpoint besides the childish ways it was dealt with by chefs and associates....
although its gotten better.
Check this forum in a bit
and I'll show you how to instill forum control.
and ''a-holes'' (authors quote!)....don't say, 'duh...we shouldn't have to do that'
if someone feels so strongly to call new members 's '****in noob...search the f......' thread''...then you have the strength to implement these measures.
it'l be up in an hour or so..got to get home
austinsnyc said:
because all these stupid n00bs came from hofo thinking that this was a download WM6 only place and not a R&D type forum... the whole point of xda DEVELOPERS is to program code and other wise develope things for our PDA not to come here and ask "how come my symbols are all messed up after i flashed this rom" or how "come my hermes has a tri-colored screen and thats it" So we get to the point of hating every stupid question that it asked because its asked 100000000000000000000000000000000000000 times over and over since no one can use google or the search button/....
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That pretty much says it all.....
A-hole???
If you're referring to austinsync or myself as being assholes, shame on you!
Speaking for myself, since 2005, I've had 856 posts, the majority of them helpful. (actually have a sticky, thank you very much)
I'm not known to curse a person but I will attempt to lead them to their destination.
People here have taught me how to fish and I try to share that knowledge.
If you insist on us giving you the fish because you're too lazy so be it... but don't call me an asshole.
Dr Puttingham said:
If you're referring to austinsync or myself as being assholes, shame on you!
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Ya....I never said any specific names, in fact I'm not sure where you got that idea, unless you are just feeling guilty. My remark was just a general feel for what seems like the whole Hermes forum.
me?
i'm quoting the word from the title post....don't know who he's referring to.
Dr Puttingham said:
If you're referring to austinsync or myself as being assholes, shame on you!
Speaking for myself, since 2005, I've had 856 posts, the majority of them helpful. (actually have a sticky, thank you very much)
I'm not known to curse a person but I will attempt to lead them to their destination.
People here have taught me how to fish and I try to share that knowledge.
If you insist on us giving you the fish because you're too lazy so be it... but don't call me an asshole.
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there are alot of members here that treat noobs unfairly sometimes, this site is a little hard to navigate and some people like myself get a new device and are like ok what can i do to it right this second, dont take the time mess it up and so on and so forth. imo some people think a little to highly of themselves and think they have the right to say what should be posted. now there are alot of great people here but there are some that are not so great. this is a developers site not a noob site and i think the best way to prevent this is to redirect noobs to other forums like http://www.htcwizardweb.net/node/103
but they are more device specific so dr puttingham or other great members of this site dont sweet it if someone states that there are some aholes on this site because its not toward yourselves. but i dont think this is the place to post this and dont think someone with a post score of less than 50 should address an issue of this nature. i have been a member for awhile and dont post alot as of yet because i am still a noob and i think to many people start threads that shouldnt be started. if you have a question read the wiki and navigate the threads using google dont start new threads unless your absolutly positive it hasnt been answered. read read read hours and hours read the wiki dont start new threads with noob questions this is not a noob site this is not a download site this is a developer site and we should be greatfull that they dont descriminate new comers. well thats my 2 cents
I think the issue is many people are used to getting things their way right away and don't want to take the time to do some searches and read a few threads before asking stupid ass questions.
I'm a newbie and sometimes I think people here act like they have their ass hairs plucked every morning before they get up. Other times I see people asking questions that are pretty stupid and easily answered. So it goes both ways.
Some here are overly anti-noob and some noobs are overly stupid.
No different
Honestly, this forum or the behavior you are talking about is nothing new or different than many of the other forums I have been part of. When the community supports itself there is a tendancy to appreciate those who help themselves and contribute to the betterment of the comunity overall. Those that detract from the community either by their actions or attitudes are unappreciated. How people show this appreciation or lack of is a matter of personal style. If some people are harsher than others it is just the way it is. If you plan on getting free support for a free product that you can't otherwise produce for yourself there is a certain expectation of self reliance. If you are offended by someone telling you to go read the F*ing wiki you need to probably grow an extra layer of skin or two.
If people who don't have the answers demonstrated and communicated what steps they have taken to find the answer on their own and actually used the google or advanced search features people would probably respond differently.
One big help on the advanced search page is to change the search from threads to posts. It really helps narrow down the exact area in the threads your search terms are and you can go back a few posts rather than try to wade your way through 55+ pages of posts.
I am a self professed "noob". But that said I have, without asking a single question on the forums, flashed several blacks, several custel, and vp3Gs LVSW ROMs, upgraded my radio, downgraded to unlock, upgraded to 1.41 and just this evening dropped it back down to 1.40 (which actually did wonders for my phone).
It is a little difficult to find all the information you need. It isn't spoon fed. But it isn't all that hard either. Between the guides my MrVanx, the wiki and the various search tools provided you should be able to peice together anything.
If everyone follows this methodology the problem would probably take care of itself with minimal effort from the moderators and you would see a lot more decorum in the forums. Until then all threads like this do are spark useless debate that has nothing to do with the hermes and clog up an already bloated forum.
Just my 2 cents. I appreciate all of the members of this community - even the A Holes.
thank you for listening.
Caturix
Did I mention I like beer?
A few day back there was a A - Hole noob here who wanted wm6 for Sony Ericsson M600. It was his first post !!!
You have to behave like an A Hole with A Hole types.
TooSharp said:
It's like a cancer. One person is rude and cruel so it rubs off until it's so unhealthy everyone lashes out at everyone. I could care less how many "noobs" ask questions. Answer it if you like or else ignore it. You people need some serious help!
Waiting to get banned and flamed!?!
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Everyone here is not an a-hole as you so liberally claim.
Why complicate simple matters? You signed up voluntarily and you can leave anytime if you don't like it here.
Don't go around calling "everyone" an a-hole just because you feel like it. Geez.
caturix said:
It is a little difficult to find all the information you need. It isn't spoon fed. But it isn't all that hard either. Between the guides my MrVanx, the wiki and the various search tools provided you should be able to peice together anything.
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SPOT ON analysis. This is precisely what a developer does... piece things together... work away at it... figure it out. And that's why they tend to get hot under the collar when others expect to be spoon fed. This this may come across a being an 'a-hole' to some when in fact they're just demanding a little appreciation for what they do.
If everyone follows this methodology the problem would probably take care of itself with minimal effort from the moderators and you would see a lot more decorum in the forums. Until then all threads like this do are spark useless debate that has nothing to do with the hermes and clog up an already bloated forum.
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Again, excellent.
TooSharp said:
It's like a cancer. One person is rude and cruel so it rubs off until it's so unhealthy everyone lashes out at everyone. I could care less how many "noobs" ask questions. Answer it if you like or else ignore it. You people need some serious help!
Waiting to get banned and flamed!?!
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well let me step up to the plate and be the A-hole here..
First if you bothered to search you will find that this topic has been talked about many times.. There is even a decent topic under the "About XDA-Developers" sub-fora... This doesnt exactly belong in a WM6 forum.. Posting this only adds to the problem.. instead of complaining about the problem, you need to ask yourself "what have i done to improve the situation?"
Alot of people blame poor moderation, but come on people, most of us are grown up's.. Do you really need babysitters? Why not take a proactive approach to help the situation instead of complaining and make it worse.
So, lets all play nice and make this a happier place..
I have frequented this site over the past few weeks or so and am outright disturbed by the disrespect some "NEW" members are getting. I haven't actually encountered this personally, but as I have read numerous post, I see things that make me want to turn around and split! Senior members calling names and being VERY rude to existing and newer members. Is this really tolerated here? I really hope not because I like the site for the most part. I just refuse to be part of a forum that lets rudeness and disrespect go unattended.
I don't mean to be a bother, but the forum I moderate at would NEVER let this happen. We BAN members for disrespecting one another. I thought that's what I would encounter here as well.
I am not really looking for a response here, just wanted to let someone who cares know what I experienced over the past few weeks here as a new member. Thank you to whomever takes the time and interest to read this.
-Tommy
NOTE TO ALL: DO NOT POST REPLIES TO THIS THREAD! IT HAS BEEN DISCUSSED ALREADY. THANKS -Tommy
Thank you for the quick reply. I'm glad to see you guys are aware of this and working to cut down on the rudeness. I myself have told "newer" members to search instead of posting new threads that look like new mods as well. I do like the site though, and will continue to frequent it. I am SOLD on htc's, as I have recently chased a TD2 and love it. I will also be able to contribute new mods as soon as I can get used to the platform.
Thanks again,
-Tommy
tomtommy306 said:
Senior members calling names and being VERY rude to existing and newer members.
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Tommy, I'm someone who felt, 2 years ago, exactly what you describe here. It was always justified as senior members getting tired of volunteering their time to help people -- only to have some new members bypass reading any "sticky threads" or any admonitions to "please read before posting a new thread" (in which tips are provided for how to get answers to frequently asked questions) -- and seemingly never bothering to search at all.
Over the past 2 years I have observed 2 things, trend-wise: (1) Once I gained some decent baseline proficiency in understanding how the basics work re upgrading my phone with new & improved software, I then started to see, as though appearing for the first time (but they were always present) the TONS of repeated questions and downright disrespect some new members had for even following the most basic of protocols -- like -- "please post that at the forum dedicated to your phone model; you can find it here..." generating responses like
"I don't have time for that. I just need to know what HardSPL means and where I can find the latest ROM for my T-Mobile Wing"
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Personally I attribute a HUGE amount of this to the less-than-optimal information design of this site, which sends people back and forth from here to there to a wiki, then searching for acronyms and definitions, then to a sticky thread (MANY OF WHICH ARE NOW OUTDATED AND HAVE BEEN FOR OVER A YEAR), then back to a hacking section, being shouted at that "this isn't for asking questions, moron; this is for contributing software hacks", and eventually generating some dog-chasing-tail experiences for new members. One of the people working his damned hardest to help minimize this is nir36 (SHOUTOUT!) with his excellent GUIDES, and with his patience within the "Questions and Answers" section.
But -- (2) Here's what I have also seen: A huge disruption of culture here at XDA, prompted, I believe, by the mainstreaming of touchscreen phones with the introduction of Apple's iPhone. Two- to three- to four years ago, the people who frequented this site were predominantly hackers who banded together to solve many of the deficiencies of WindowsMobile software, and who shared their expertise knowing that other people's expertise would benefit them and solve annoying problems, or push a certain envelope. There was, as a result, a culture of CONTRIBUTION, vs one of "gimme gimme gimme, I don't have time, just gimme".
I've seen many an essay posted here by veteran members of XDA expressing a real frustration for some of the behaviors caused by the new influx of people seeing tricks and hacks now posted on YouTube, and then discovering XDA, and coming here to "find that and get it onto my device".
This has created a culture clash which is totally understandable from both sides of of the issue. There's more and more abuse of basic rules & process, where, as I said, more people seek to bypass all that rigamaroll and just post wherever it seems to fit, and seek a specific answer about how to get XXX on my device. There are MANY MANY senior members, even veteran senior members who've been here 4-5 years, who still use a soft touch in asking people to "read this FAQ please" or "please post that in THIS forum". But at the same time, when the response to gentle nudges like that is along the lines of "I don't have time for that, I'm in a hurry, and I just need to get this installed", then patience grows thin.
And so yes, of course, you'll see people snapping at one another. But it's born of frustration for the lack of respect of the culture of XDA -- where it had always been part of the quest to have new people work a little at finding answers, not to punish them, but rather to help them connect the dots and see the solutions available to them, and how they often build atop prior work.
Anyway these are my thoughts. I speak only as a member, not as any representative of the site or group of Mods.
I have been looking around quite a bit lately(here @ XDA), and have better feelings about it. There are a lot more helpful and kind people here, then there are rude ones. I guess I was running into a lot of newer members that were being disrespectful to the seniors. I understand the frustrations of members not being appreciative as I see it often where I mod. It does get frustrating when people don't say "please" and "thank you" , but some people must have forgotten what their families have taught them. MANNERS...
I will continue to be around the site.
You ALL do great work here, and I appreciate the time and effort involved.
I rarely ask for help, but I wanted to know it was welcome, just in case.
We are all here for the same thing, and I am very glad to have found XDA to fuel my need.
The site has a great REP, and that means a lot to me.
It was also the reason for concern in the first place.
Thanks again guys,
-Tommy
Note to MODS or ADMINS: PLEASE CLOSE or DELETE THIS THREAD. I am very happy with the responses I have been given, and am happy to be here. The topic will not be brought up again unless ABSOLUTELY necessary.
At least it's not Howard Forums
Seriously, if you see anything that looks bad, PM a moderator or report the post. We do try to respond.
V
vijay555 said:
At least it's not Howard Forums
Seriously, if you see anything that looks bad, PM a moderator or report the post. We do try to respond.
V
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You got that right.... Howard forums are very out there.
That's where I discovered modding cell phones for the first time.
If any complaints were ever to arise(doubtful), I would communicate via PM only.
Thanks vijay.
Sounds like somebody called you a noob and you got all flustered and decided to make a thread about it. Hope things get better for you.
Drybonz said:
Sounds like somebody called you a noob and you got all flustered and decided to make a thread about it. Hope things get better for you.
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Actually..... I hadn't even started to post in the forum when I wrote this.
It was from responses like YOURS here, except to other members that made me start this thread. And I had no intention of keeping it going. It was for admins and mods to read.
I'm no noob at any of this. I work as a computer technician for the city I live in. And I moderate at MMUS.us for quite a while now. Tkali & Insecure Spike can vouch for all of this. They mod there too... and have worked with me since I have been there.
AND LASTLY...... WHY DID YOU RESPOND TO A POST DOING EXACTLY WHAT I OPENLY STATED TO DISLIKING?? Disrespectful at the least.
tomtommy306 said:
Actually..... I hadn't even started to post in the forum when I wrote this.
It was from responses like YOURS here, except to other members that made me start this thread. And I had no intention of keeping it going. It was for admins and mods to read.
I'm no noob at any of this. I work as a computer technician for the city I live in. And I moderate at MMUS.us for quite a while now. Tkali & Insecure Spike can vouch for all of this. They mod there too... and have worked with me since I have been there.
AND LASTLY...... WHY DID YOU RESPOND TO A POST DOING EXACTLY WHAT I OPENLY STATED TO DISLIKING?? Disrespectful at the least.
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Well an assumption is an assumption. There is nothing you can do about it if a skeptic has little information to analyze.
To explain the frustrations of the "meanies" here are two situations I come up with:
Situation 1
The problem is that XDA is very likely to be the most visited forum as a technical support forum but stupid idiots are just too stupid to fix their problem when the answer is right there.
Example
For example, I have seen plenty on the Xperia forums in which some dude asks for panels when it is available as a sticky called "panels library" and the links worked at the moment, and yet the he requests for an existing panel.
Situation 2
Someone asks for a Windows Live Messenger download, and he/she says that he "looked everywhere, up and down" ... I tell him that it's easy to find and he isn't really looking ... he defense himself saying that he really did look ... we say o rly?
Example
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=517909
By the way, I declare this a skeleton war, since both of you are likely to argue and you both have skull faces
I would say, empathise, its not about senior members but about those people who stay a lot on this forum & loves this place too much that they get annoyed when they find someone littering around or violating the rules.
But being a senior member or more so a lover of XDA I would not allow myself to offend anyone's feelings or his/her dignity.
Enjoy & report mods in case you feel something is too offending & the suggestion is going out of context. Cheers
Saksham Katyal
I am a 28 year old male with not much to worry about.
Arguing on a Smart_phone/PPC forum is a little too juvenile for myself.
I was merely reading some threads, saw some rudeness.... read some more.... saw some more.
Then asked if the admins were aware.
I didn't expect it to cause such a stir. WOW!
Most people here have seemed rather decent since I posted this, and I expected nothing from XDA, but a place to learn new things.
I'm not really that concerned about it, just wanted to let the admins know my initial experience.
I was never directly disrespected.... The fact is, I haven't asked for help here at all.
I actually answered a few questions and really nothing more.
So, is there really a need to continue this discussion??
Not for me.... but you guys feel free to continue.
But if a skeleton war is in order...... I have some tattooed on me and am infatuated with them, so I WIN...hahaha
sakshamkatyal said:
I would say, empathise, its not about senior members but about those people who stay a lot on this forum & loves this place too much that they get annoyed when they find someone littering around or violating the rules.
But being a senior member or more so a lover of XDA I would not allow myself to offend anyone's feelings or his/her dignity.
Enjoy & report mods in case you feel something is too offending & the suggestion is going out of context. Cheers
Saksham Katyal
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Very mature words.... This is what I expect from a forum.
Is that your little girl there..... I read about the tragedy.
Broke my heart into a million pieces!!!
tomtommy306 said:
Very mature words.... This is what I expect from a forum.
Is that your little girl there..... I read about the tragedy.
Broke my heart into a million pieces!!!
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No its not mine but it was our's.
Even we are stunned with what happened to her in this little age.
get more about her here.
http://www.supportalessandra.com/
I wish you have a nice time over here. Dont worry xda is community inhabited more by mature people fortunately. Or else mods would be always there.
Regards
Saksham Katyal
tomtommy306 said:
I am a 28 year old male with not much to worry about.
Arguing on a Smart_phone/PPC forum is a little too juvenile for myself.
I was merely reading some threads, saw some rudeness.... read some more.... saw some more.
Then asked if the admins were aware.
I didn't expect it to cause such a stir. WOW!
Most people here have seemed rather decent since I posted this, and I expected nothing from XDA, but a place to learn new things.
I'm not really that concerned about it, just wanted to let the admins know my initial experience.
I was never directly disrespected.... The fact is, I haven't asked for help here at all.
I actually answered a few questions and really nothing more.
So, is there really a need to continue this discussion??
Not for me.... but you guys feel free to continue.
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Lol... I love this thread. You got upset because you saw some guys tell some noobs to search for stuff instead of starting a new thread, so you get all flustered, start a thread about it and then you get all defensive when somebody responds to your post.
OMG I can't believe it caused SUCH A STIR... oh wow.
28 year old male with not much to worry about... lol... this is classic stuff.
Drybonz said:
Lol... I love this thread. You got upset because you saw some guys tell some noobs to search for stuff instead of starting a new thread, so you get all flustered, start a thread about it and then you get all defensive when somebody responds to your post.
OMG I can't believe it caused SUCH A STIR... oh wow.
28 year old male with not much to worry about... lol... this is classic stuff.
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What are you from ebaumsworld? Ya know, I am offended by what you just said, and I'm 19. Does age really matter?
There is always a chance that a question/thread is plausible and that he actually tried to search. And beside, sometimes I get lazy about searching and I just ask the question too. Well actually I ask the question first, and search immediately after because I want to gather all the result as soon as possible.
poetryrocksalot said:
Ya know, I am offended by what you just said, and I'm 19. Does age really matter?
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Dunno... I'm 32 and I was quoting it.
Yeash, this is turning into that thread about religion.
Guys, please.
Noobs: sometimes, seniors get tired of answering the same old questions that can be easily found by a quick google.
Seniors: sometimes noobs are coming from a world of Nokias and iphones. You live in a world where people make ROMs for fun. Seriously.
The lot of you: you live in a world where you rub shoulders with Doctor Manhattan style giants, and don't even know it. Some of the guys on this site will astound you with their knowledge of the intricacies of the minutiae of the encryption systems used in the CE rom structure. They could blow you all away.
Experience is a sliding scale, and even George Lucas knows that "there's always a bigger fish".
Everyone should be polite, you were all noobs once.
V
PS be polite, serious, cus I'll start getting medieval soon.
poetryrocksalot said:
What are you from ebaumsworld? Ya know, I am offended by what you just said, and I'm 19. Does age really matter?
There is always a chance that a question/thread is plausible and that he actually tried to search. And beside, sometimes I get lazy about searching and I just ask the question too. Well actually I ask the question first, and search immediately after because I want to gather all the result as soon as possible.
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Nope, age never has anything to do with it as is evident by Drybonz reply...and like he/she said, he/she is 32. Even at the age of 32 he/she still enjoys coming on to a forum and slamming someone for simply stating something the is bothersome to them, then gets a bigger kick when he/she sees that the reply got under their skin. Sad part is he/she will probably see my reply and some how get joy from it too.
Basically you have 1 of 2 choices on internet forums;
1. Let people bother you and lose sight of why you got on to a forum in the first place just to end up not coming back and missing out because of it.
2. Let it go and realize life is too short to care about people with more guts behind a screen/keyboard and what they have to say. You see a post that bothers you? Skip it and go to the next, simple as that.
wagonis said:
Nope, age never has anything to do with it as is evident by Drybonz reply...and like he/she said, he/she is 32. Even at the age of 32 he/she still enjoys coming on to a forum and slamming someone for simply stating something the is bothersome to them, then gets a bigger kick when he/she sees that the reply got under their skin. Sad part is he/she will probably see my reply and some how get joy from it too.
Basically you have 1 of 2 choices on internet forums;
1. Let people bother you and lose sight of why you got on to a forum in the first place just to end up not coming back and missing out because of it.
2. Let it go and realize life is too short to care about people with more guts behind a screen/keyboard and what they have to say. You see a post that bothers you? Skip it and go to the next, simple as that.
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kudos to you sir
I agree with Wagonis: just ignore any remarks by others that you dislike for any reason.
To Tomtommy: I agree with you that everyone ought to be polite, it is an excellent thing to strive for yourself. But if you let impolite remarks bother you, you just make things worse than they need be. If you ignore them, they will bother you far less. Indignation is a dangerous emotion, because it tends to swell with time. Just let people bicker; when they are really offended, they will make it known. Most people can take a bit of bullying.
[What I am going to say now borders on the insolent, so that I must apologize beforehand, but: I think those who are most insecure about themselves are the ones most easily offended. Those who are confident just think: "oh, an impolite remark" without experiencing much emotional impact. Sometimes, others are judged "offended" even when they themselves do not care.
Another option is that there are just differences in culture: in some groups, rude remarks are considered a form of innocent teasing.]
Ever notice how these forums are CRAWLING!!!! with the know-it-all put-you-down small-person inferiority-complex type? These are the ones who, even though you used the damn search for three hours before posting a thread, and did not find your answer, they respond to your post with "USE THE SEARCH!!!!!" W T F !!!! They flame the hell out of such members and drive away even some devs because they are just selfish a$$hole know-it-alls. And I LOVE how they will FLAME THE HELL out of anyone who posts a question thread in the dev section claiming it's against the rules, when in fact it's NOT!!! There is no WRITTEN rule here that states that (unlike at PPCGEEKS which DOES have such a written rule), they FLAME people on the claim that these people are violating such a sacred rule, which doesn't actually exist, and yet they are somehow exempt from the explicit written rule of not flaming! If I was a mod, I would seriously devote my time to finding these people and BANNING THEM!!! I've seen people, who have serious, time sensitive problems to solve, and post in more than one forum hoping to get a speedy answer, and some BRILLIANT WIZARD comes along and flames them for CROSS POSTING!!! ARE YOU SERIOUS!? If someone is in desperate need of getting their phone fixed they are not going to be persuaded by some a$$h013 KNOW IT ALL wannabe forum HALL MONITOR bossing them! W!, T!, F!,
You know HOW MANY TIMES I've done a search for a problem, found a thread with someone who has the SAME PROBLEM, but the ONLY RESPONSE listed is someone saying "USE THE SEARCH AND DON'T CLUTTER UP THE FORUM!!!! THIS HAS BEEN DISCUSSED!!!!" yet for some reason that is the ONLY DAMN THREAD I can find on it!!!! HOW I *LOVE* finding such HELPFUL THREADS!!!
I've read posts by devs who have left or severely LIMITED their work due to people they call "HATERS". Good job. Seriously, yelling at someone who is asking for help is lame and such responses should be deleted and people with such attitudes BANNED!
And how many TIMES do you find someone who posts a question in the DEV section and some EINSTEIN comes along and their ONLY REPLY is "THIS NEEDS TO BE MOVED!! DON'T POST QUESTIONS IN THE DEV SECTION!!!" W T F!!!! These types of people need to be banned for life. Making people afraid to ask questions hinders growth and due to the lack of it my love for searching and using Google has brought to light many more forums which some devs are favoring rather than XDA. Too bad, this place used to be the hang out of the 1337. People shouldn't be flamed for asking questions, and it shouldn't be assumed people aren't using the search. We all know of Google. I doubt there are many posts any more where the OP hasn't first used the search. Even secretaries know how to use Google. Saying "USE THE SEARCH!!!" isn't some stroke of dawning brilliance. This place has become so brutal that I'm sure even AFTER using the search and failing some still won't post their questions.
Let me begin by saying that I'm not attacking you or anyone else personally in this reply. My intention is to illustrate the other side of this argument. You see useless members starting flame wars; I see members protecting other users from potentially bricking their devices, teaching them manners, and upholding the sanctity of our developer forums.
petermg said:
Ever notice how these forums are CRAWLING!!!! with the know-it-all put-you-down small-person inferiority-complex type? These are the ones who, even though you used the damn search for three hours before posting a thread, and did not find your answer, they respond to your post with "USE THE SEARCH!!!!!" W T F !!!!
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I can assure you that the majority of the time, the person in which the flame is directed did not use the search feature. If they did, then common sense would dictate that you give the most amount of information relevant to your problem in order for someone else to help. We are not mind readers. If the majority of the problems that are posted about here could have been answered by the simple use of the search feature, and that person did not use it, well, it gets extraordinarily annoying after a time. In any case, if they did search, but didn't provide that bit of information in their post, then you can't get mad at us for not being mind readers.
They flame the hell out of such members and drive away even some devs because they are just selfish a$$hole know-it-alls. And I LOVE how they will FLAME THE HELL out of anyone who posts a question thread in the dev section claiming it's against the rules, when in fact it's NOT!!! There is no WRITTEN rule here that states that (unlike at PPCGEEKS which DOES have such a written rule), they FLAME people on the claim that these people are violating such a sacred rule, which doesn't actually exist, and yet they are somehow exempt from the explicit written rule of not flaming!
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This is an issue which is always in a bit of flux here. You have to understand that this isn't a support website. This website is dedicated to development. As such, developers on this website come first and foremost. If you or anyone else decide to clutter up the development forums, which are provided as a haven for our developers, with inane posts about simple things that could have been answered with the search feature or should have simply been posted in the proper forum, this too gets very old very quickly. I'm not condoning the flaming, but you have to accept that there is just cause for the disdain on this topic.
If I was a mod, I would seriously devote my time to finding these people and BANNING THEM!!! I've seen people, who have serious, time sensitive problems to solve, and post in more than one forum hoping to get a speedy answer, and some BRILLIANT WIZARD comes along and flames them for CROSS POSTING!!! ARE YOU SERIOUS!? If someone is in desperate need of getting their phone fixed they are not going to be persuaded by some a$$h013 KNOW IT ALL wannabe forum HALL MONITOR bossing them! W!, T!, F!,
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First off, as a mod, tracking down these people should not be your primary concern. There are far more pressing matters to attend to than this select group of people. Besides, pointing out the obvious isn't against the rules. Cross posting, however, is against the rules. The bottom line for the time-sensitive posts is that it is a risk you take by flashing a custom ROM, or doing something the manufacturer didn't intend. It comes back around to my point about us not being a support website. If someone has the spare time to get you an answer, then good for you, but it is never something that anyone should expect here.
You know HOW MANY TIMES I've done a search for a problem, found a thread with someone who has the SAME PROBLEM, but the ONLY RESPONSE listed is someone saying "USE THE SEARCH AND DON'T CLUTTER UP THE FORUM!!!! THIS HAS BEEN DISCUSSED!!!!" yet for some reason that is the ONLY DAMN THREAD I can find on it!!!! HOW I *LOVE* finding such HELPFUL THREADS!!!
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More likely than not, you simply need to change your search terms. If you aren't able to find your answer by searching, then make a post about it letting us know what exactly you searched for that garnered no results.
This does two things:
1) It narrows down our search criteria to exclude the terms you have already exhausted.
2) It shows us that you didn't come here just to leach an answer from the community, but also put in some effort at troubleshooting your own issue.
I've read posts by devs who have left or severely LIMITED their work due to people they call "HATERS". Good job. Seriously, yelling at someone who is asking for help is lame and such responses should be deleted and people with such attitudes BANNED!
And how many TIMES do you find someone who posts a question in the DEV section and some EINSTEIN comes along and their ONLY REPLY is "THIS NEEDS TO BE MOVED!! DON'T POST QUESTIONS IN THE DEV SECTION!!!" W T F!!!! These types of people need to be banned for life.
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This happens because most of the senior members here, including myself, feel that anyone with half a brain should be able to tell that questions go in the question and answers fora. They are labeled like that for a reason. If you didn't create something developmental, then there isn't a reason to post a thread in the development fora.
Making people afraid to ask questions hinders growth and due to the lack of it my love for searching and using Google has brought to light many more forums which some devs are favoring rather than XDA. Too bad, this place used to be the hang out of the 1337. People shouldn't be flamed for asking questions, and it shouldn't be assumed people aren't using the search. We all know of Google. I doubt there are many posts any more where the OP hasn't first used the search. Even secretaries know how to use Google. Saying "USE THE SEARCH!!!" isn't some stroke of dawning brilliance. This place has become so brutal that I'm sure even AFTER using the search and failing some still won't post their questions.
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Just because people know about Google doesn't mean they've actually used it. It is far more rare to come across a user asking a question who has done a search first than not.
The problem isn't so much about people asking questions. The problem lies a bit deeper now. Things used to be different here, indeed. I've personally been a registered XDA user for 6 years now. Things were more development focused back in the old WM days. It was normally only those of us who were looking for ways to get more out of our Pocket PCs that would frequent the forum. This mentality you are describing wasn't any different then from what it is today. The only difference is that now that Android has flooded the market that Apple made popular, we have a different set of users who are looking for a different type of development.
When I was a noob here, the flaming for not searching and doing the work myself was what eventually taught me how to find my own answers and not rely on others to support my device. I learned how to search, compose a proper post, and ask for help in a way that showed I wasn't trying to be a leach but had legitimately tried to solve my issue and failed.
The other big difference at the time was the age difference between WM users and the current generation of Android and iOS users. Back then, WM users were generally in their 20s or older. Most of the people using it, such as myself, needed it as a professional portable workstation. We had a more mature mentality towards our precious piece of technology. There were few times where you could get one of these Pocket PCs for under $400, so we valued what we had spent our money on, since insurance claims on them were all but nonexistent at the time. If we did something wrong, then there was a good chance that our expensive gadget would be just another paperweight. Since a fair portion of us needed these devices for a daily job, there was more caution thrown towards modding, flashing, or installing software.
Now, our devices are known as smartphones, and our users are mostly teenagers to whom their device was given by their parents. They don't have the same sense of worth towards their devices that used to be present since they didn't pay anything for it, or paid very little.
These users aren't taught that respect needs to be show if you want to receive it. I know it may seem as though they didn't say anything warranting a flame war, but by not showing other members of this community who donate their time to it enough respect to out line their problem and how they tried to solve it, all it sounds like to us is, "Here, I broke this. You need to fix it for me for free."
I hope that this has shown you the other side of the coin.
There is a difference between other forums and this one. They are user forums and this one is not. It is a developers forum. Made by and for developers.
im also newbie,still learning to theme my rom,applying and make new mod from the tutorial that posted here in developement forum,i read all threads and posts to understand how to make it on my phone,not just asking for help,if you say you are tired reading all threads and posts to find an answer,what about the devs??are'nt they tired of answering same question over and over??say something with you mind open,just an advice
Sent from my LT18i
Some good points made on each side, but the fact is that this is NOT the regular use forum, it's for the "pro" people, so I think it's understandable when they get annoyed with some of the users asking seemingly simple questions.
zelendel said:
There is a difference between other forums and this one. They are user forums and this one is not. It is a developers forum. Made by and for developers.
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xda is for developers and users.
Android78822 said:
xda is for developers and users.
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No, it isn't. That's where the confusion comes from. This is a developer forum that we allow non-developers to be a part of. The catch is that you have to actually participate and be a part of the community to get any level of respect here. We don't appreciate people coming here just to turn us into a support forum. If you want tech support, call your carrier. If you want to be a part of a community, come here.
If you are in urgent need of help I would recommend trying IRC first, it's usually a lot easier to get real time feedback from people on there compared to a forum.
Some of the flaming may be unnecessary, but you have to realize that a large amount of time goes into a lot of the ROMs, kernels, etc. If you're nice enough to share it then you deserve to have a chance for everyone to see it. To have everyone bury their posts just so they can ask a question is inconsiderate, to say the least. Plus the clutter makes it harder for those looking for something to find it.
When I first started lurking here I only needed to see one question in the dev section for me to figure out that was the last place to post one. Sure I was cautious the first time or two I posted there, but you better believe I made sure it fit in with the other posts there before I posted it.
cajunflavoredbob said:
No, it isn't. That's where the confusion comes from. This is a developer forum that we allow non-developers to be a part of. The catch is that you have to actually participate and be a part of the community to get any level of respect here. We don't appreciate people coming here just to turn us into a support forum. If you want tech support, call your carrier. If you want to be a part of a community, come here.
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You. Are. Awesome.
Always a level-headed, thorough, well-thought-out response. Keep it up.
arrrghhh said:
You. Are. Awesome.
Always a level-headed, thorough, well-thought-out response. Keep it up.
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Nah he's a scumbag really...
He just pops in here every now and then to make up for trolling elsewhere...
Sent From My Fingers To Your Face.......
conantroutman said:
Nah he's a scumbag really...
He just pops in here every now and then to make up for trolling elsewhere...
Sent From My Fingers To Your Face.......
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Save your trolling for OT. I'll meet you there later. Lol
I've changed my mind about this very subject so many times that I've lost count. I used to be in the "Search the forum." camp, but then decided that I could be more constructive - "Search the forum and see if you can find any help there. I just used this search term - xxxxxxxxxxxxx - and came up with some answers for you. See if any of them help."
From what I've seen most of the people that are blunt about searching one day are friendly and offer good, helpful advice the next day. Yes, of course there are a few trolls that seem to take pleasure in baiting confrontation, but that's unfortunately the nature of large groups of people. There's always 1!
This community has, by and large, been the most informative website I have ever had the pleasure to take part in. My only advice with regards to this matter would be to learn to take bad attitudes with a pinch of salt, or let the mods know if someone's gone too far. I'm certainly not shy about bringing things to the attention of mods, and I've only been trolled by one of them
Basically, if you see something you don't like then don't rant. Teach by example. It makes the whole place better for us all.
Archer said:
I've changed my mind about this very subject so many times that I've lost count. I used to be in the "Search the forum." camp, but then decided that I could be more constructive - "Search the forum and see if you can find any help there. I just used this search term - xxxxxxxxxxxxx - and came up with some answers for you. See if any of them help."
From what I've seen most of the people that are blunt about searching one day are friendly and offer good, helpful advice the next day. Yes, of course there are a few trolls that seem to take pleasure in baiting confrontation, but that's unfortunately the nature of large groups of people. There's always 1!
This community has, by and large, been the most informative website I have ever had the pleasure to take part in. My only advice with regards to this matter would be to learn to take bad attitudes with a pinch of salt, or let the mods know if someone's gone too far. I'm certainly not shy about bringing things to the attention of mods, and I've only been trolled by one of them
Basically, if you see something you don't like then don't rant. Teach by example. It makes the whole place better for us all.
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I've kind of grown out of the "USE THE SEARCH FEATURE" responses as well. It took me several years, but now I ask questions designed to teach them how they should be posting questions.
When I see a post like "i brookeded my fone. needz help! whAT SHouLd i do?!!!", it generates a response from me along the lines of, "Ok, what did you do to try and fix it yourself? Have you searched for your problem? Did you read the stickies? Did you read any relevant FAQs for that mod/hack/ROM/app?"
It's a bit condescending, but not as insulting as just spamming SEARCH FIRST all the time. This way, they feel a little bit insulted, but at least they know why.
cajunflavoredbob said:
I've kind of grown out of the "USE THE SEARCH FEATURE" responses as well. It took me several years, but now I ask questions designed to teach them how they should be posting questions.
When I see a post like "i brookeded my fone. needz help! whAT SHouLd i do?!!!", it generates a response from me along the lines of, "Ok, what did you do to try and fix it yourself? Have you searched for your problem? Did you read the stickies? Did you read any relevant FAQs for that mod/hack/ROM/app?"
It's a bit condescending, but not as insulting as just spamming SEARCH FIRST all the time. This way, they feel a little bit insulted, but at least they know why.
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Exactly - could not agree more (especially since you were pretty much agreeing with me ) I find myself now showing a newb (not noob) how it should be done, whilst at the same time letting the "SEARCH NOOB" shouters know how they should deal with it.
Given time though, I think most of us realise the futility of shouting at people that demand support. There's one guy in particular I can think of (obviously won't say who), who came on here shouting NOOB and telling people to search and ranting at everything that was even vaguely rantable at, and it was clear that he just enjoyed it. Now, though, after a couple of years on here he's one of the most helpful members I know. He has tons of patience and tons of thanks to show for it. I see him around now and then and we usually say hello, and I have to admit that it's nice to think that maybe showing him how to deal with a newb quietly and calmly may have had some effect. Maybe not, but either way I'm glad he got there eventually.
Either people stay and eventually become more chilled, or they leave in anger or get booted for trolling/swearing/abusing etc..
I have faith in the majority.
Archer said:
Exactly - could not agree more (especially since you were pretty much agreeing with me ) I find myself now showing a newb (not noob) how it should be done, whilst at the same time letting the "SEARCH NOOB" shouters know how they should deal with it.
Given time though, I think most of us realise the futility of shouting at people that demand support. There's one guy in particular I can think of (obviously won't say who), who came on here shouting NOOB and telling people to search and ranting at everything that was even vaguely rantable at, and it was clear that he just enjoyed it. Now, though, after a couple of years on here he's one of the most helpful members I know. He has tons of patience and tons of thanks to show for it. I see him around now and then and we usually say hello, and I have to admit that it's nice to think that maybe showing him how to deal with a newb quietly and calmly may have had some effect. Maybe not, but either way I'm glad he got there eventually.
Either people stay and eventually become more chilled, or they leave in anger or get booted for trolling/swearing/abusing etc..
I have faith in the majority.
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Heheh, you're referring to me, aren't you?
Yea, you just have to find that balance between being insulting and helpful. That way they are less likely to make the same mistake again. It's never a good idea to just hand over the information right away, since that teaches them absolutely nothing. It's like that old proverb saying that you can give a man a fish and feed him for a day, but if you teach him to fish, you can feed him for life.
cajunflavoredbob said:
Heheh, you're referring to me, aren't you?
Yea, you just have to find that balance between being insulting and helpful. That way they are less likely to make the same mistake again. It's never a good idea to just hand over the information right away, since that teaches them absolutely nothing. It's like that old proverb saying that you can give a man a fish and feed him for a day, but if you teach him to fish, you can feed him for life.
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Hahaha nah mate - I wasn't referring to you. You're still a troll
This sort of thing happens all the time in automotive forums, oldsters get super cranky from answering the same questions over and over and new people get mad because they're told to use search literally every time they have a question valid or not. You're probably going to find that this is an issue no matter where you go on the internet.
The only time I've seen this mostly resolved is on a forum where moderation of user behavior is swift, brutal, and pretty impartial, and registration to the forum costs $10. Not likely to work on a forum such as this.
.
To compliment and support what cajunflavoredbob mentioned, please read my signature, you may now understand the nature of XDA:
This is and always will be a site for developers, pure and simple. Without them we are nothing, without them there would be no reason for XDA Developers to exist; we should never ever forget that. Without them this place would not be called XDA-Developers but something else, e.g Mobile Phone User Support Services For Ungrateful Nerds.
XDA is about developing and is for developers. Any user that recognises that will gain the most benefit from this site
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Android78822 said:
xda is for developers and users.
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cajunflavoredbob said:
No, it isn't. That's where the confusion comes from. This is a developer forum that we allow non-developers to be a part of. The catch is that you have to actually participate and be a part of the community to get any level of respect here. We don't appreciate people coming here just to turn us into a support forum. If you want tech support, call your carrier. If you want to be a part of a community, come here.
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Jesus! A quick search would have brought up like 20+ threads just like this one. All of them with the same answer. You could have googled Asshats with tudes and XDA would have been your first answer. Read the rules! Post only when posted at! Never wear white after labor day, and some other stuff that is off topic!!!!
Here is something I don't understand. Yes this site might be for developers, but without users developers would server no purpose so that claim that this isn't for both users and developers seems counter productive. I myself haven't gotten around to making 10+ posts just to justify my rooting knowledge.
Yet the fact remains that without users the developers wouldn't really need to even have a website like this or it would be private which it's clearly not. How many bigger developers actually live off of their user donations?
Just my two cents, but I disagree.
Dear Xda,
My visit here on your forums has been good up until I recently found some of your members like to act like complete pompous arrogant jerks towards people asking for help - example: here - Bottom line was I asked for Help with rooting a phone and what I got was "nobody gives a s*** about you and won't reply unless you tell them exactly what you need help with" even though the title clearly states what I need help with so for future reference, I don't plan on referring anyone to this site due to the amount of people on here that feel entitled to acting like snobs and angsty towards noobs who need/ask for help with something - in fact, I wouldn't recommend to any noobie or person openly willing to understand and comprehend your vast knowledge of the technology behind exploiting a phone and unlocking it for further control - and instead getting a snobbish pie to the face, that's almost as shameful as a student coming to class to learn, and the teacher throwing the book at them for wanting to learn.
So until this changes - I will gladly spread around the net how horrible my experience was here and recommend that anyone wanting to know how to root their phone AVOID xda and go some place else where asking questions because one simply doesn't understand or know is tolerated.
Thanks and so long. It's sure been fun (not really, you've got a pretty big set of set of a**holes on here. I'd rather visit 4chan and be bombarded by trolls than endure snobbish users who cant take a single question and be nice about it.)
alex.ap.pacman said:
Dear Xda,
My visit here on your forums has been good up until I recently found some of your members like to act like complete pompous arrogant jerks towards people asking for help - example: here - Bottom line was I asked for Help with rooting a phone and what I got was "nobody gives a s*** about you and won't reply unless you tell them exactly what you need help with" even though the title clearly states what I need help with so for future reference, I don't plan on referring anyone to this site due to the amount of people on here that feel entitled to acting like snobs and angsty towards noobs who need/ask for help with something - in fact, I wouldn't recommend to any noobie or person openly willing to understand and comprehend your vast knowledge of the technology behind exploiting a phone and unlocking it for further control - and instead getting a snobbish pie to the face, that's almost as shameful as a student coming to class to learn, and the teacher throwing the book at them for wanting to learn.
So until this changes - I will gladly spread around the net how horrible my experience was here and recommend that anyone wanting to know how to root their phone AVOID xda and go some place else where asking questions because one simply doesn't understand or know is tolerated.
Thanks and so long. It's sure been fun (not really, you've got a pretty big set of set of a**holes on here. I'd rather visit 4chan and be bombarded by trolls than endure snobbish users who cant take a single question and be nice about it.)
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
If you can pm me I will try to help you with your phone.. Ok
XDA itself are not responsible for how people choose to reply to any questions asked. What the staff here do do though, is follow up on problems like this if you report them.
If you feel any user is being rude/obnoxious, you can report it and explain the situation or you can take it up with that user directly via PM(and not publicly).
Your point of view on this is based on one single user. XDA has just over 4.5 million users and you're disregarding the whole forum due to one person?
If these forums were really that bad, would XDA have the following it does? Of course not. People would leave and choose one of the smaller forums instead.
I can't make you change your mind and to be perfectly honest, I wouldn't even attempt to.
If you change your mind and decide to stick around, then always remember that there are other ways of dealing with such people, instead of storming off.
But if you've made up your mind and you want to leave XDA, then feel free to do so.
See you around (or not, as the case may be).
Sent from Stephen Hawking's rooted wheelchair
KidCarter93 said:
XDA itself are not responsible for how people choose to reply to any questions asked. What the staff here do do though, is follow up on problems like this if you report them.
If you feel any user is being rude/obnoxious, you can report it and explain the situation or you can take it up with that user directly via PM(and not publicly).
Your point of view on this is based on one single user. XDA has just over 4.5 million users and you're disregarding the whole forum due to one person?
If these forums were really that bad, would XDA have the following it does? Of course not. People would leave and choose one of the smaller forums instead.
I can't make you change your mind and to be perfectly honest, I wouldn't even attempt to.
If you change your mind and decide to stick around, then always remember that there are other ways of dealing with such people, instead of storming off.
But if you've made up your mind and you want to leave XDA, then feel free to do so.
See you around (or not, as the case may be).
Sent from Stephen Hawking's rooted wheelchair
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It's not like this has been my first encounter with picky, xda members, and frankly if some dev or user cant take that noob has a question then why have a forum for "help"? Its upsetting because this is a widespread issue - people getting upset because noobs ask questions.
ronnie498 said:
If you can pm me I will try to you with your phone..
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Thank you kind sir, I will indeed take you up on that when i have the time - currently moving the next few days.
alex.ap.pacman said:
It's not like this has been my first encounter with picky, xda members, and frankly if some dev or user cant take that noob has a question then why have a forum for "help"? Its upsetting because this is a widespread issue - people getting upset because noobs ask questions.
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I can totally understand that, but we were all noobs at one point or another. Even now, I have noob moments from time to time.
But a lot of people around XDA will get annoyed by new users for the simple fact that the majority of the time, they won't search for an answer. They'll simply post a thread wherever they can and expect an answer to be handed to them.
Hence why we suggest that people spend the time to read the stickied threads in the 'About xda', 'General', and their device specific forums.
These stickies will include most of the information a user may need about there device or about XDA in general.
If after reading them and searching, if an answer has still not been found then create a thread and let people know exactly what you've done to find an answer. If other users can tell you actually have searched, then they'll be more willing to help you.
If any of that seemed condescending, I apologize, but I'm not aware of what knowledge you have regarding these forums.
Sent from Stephen Hawking's rooted wheelchair
Are you serious you posted a question, got smart with the first person who responded and now your complaining none will help. Sorry to not be constructive help but being the "noob" you say you are, I would drop the attitude if you expect much help in the future. Most will tell you to read first because all your questions have been asked and answered before. Your device is not new and xda has a wealth of information on it. All you have to do is your homework and read.
my advise to you is to lose the attitude, be patient and
read, read, read
Edit.
I can only assume on the actual model of your gs2 because of lack of info but
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?p=22904907 this only took a few seconds to find
Tapped from my e4gt blazing with the tweaked blu kuban V0.1.3
After reading the post you made to trigger this, it appears to me that you expected XDA to work like an IRC channel where you would essentially be having a near real time conversation with a support tech. As you are no doubt aware now, it doesn't work like that. XDA members are spread around the world and it may take a few hours for someone to reply. It is best to give all important details to get the best answers.
BTW, if you are going to "quote" someone as you did in the first post, it is advisable to put exactly what they did say within the quotes rather than paraphrase as you did.
"nobody gives a s*** about you and won't reply unless you tell them exactly what you need help with"
does not equal
"No body will reply if you dont say what you want htere are a billion things you can do so tell what the problem is"
See the difference?
Personally, the thread which the OP linked to, i think there the members HAVE been harsh on him. They could've told him to search and advised him to read the sticky topics, maybe scolded a bit, but they've just not done that. They've just got into a fight with him.
Sent from my GT-S5360 using Tapatalk 2
anasdcool71 said:
Personally, the thread which the OP linked to, i think there the members HAVE been harsh on him. They could've told him to search and advised him to read the sticky topics, maybe scolded a bit, but they've just not done that. They've just got into a fight with him.
Sent from my GT-S5360 using Tapatalk 2
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Hmmm, I guess there are a lot of cultural differences, but I read those comments and I only see one that "might" rise to the level of harsh and none that rise to the level of "fight". Compared to what I have seen in this type of situation before, those comments are pretty much average.
I don't see an issue.
Local knowledge of the forum by reading would show you need to know more about the phone than just the software version.
Reading past examples would probably show this.
Searching will also usually reveal a working root method stickied on the development forum
alex.ap.pacman said:
Dear Xda,
My visit here on your forums has been good up until I recently found some of your members like to act like complete pompous arrogant jerks towards people asking for help - example: here - Bottom line was I asked for Help with rooting a phone and what I got was "nobody gives a s*** about you and won't reply unless you tell them exactly what you need help with" even though the title clearly states what I need help with so for future reference, I don't plan on referring anyone to this site due to the amount of people on here that feel entitled to acting like snobs and angsty towards noobs who need/ask for help with something - in fact, I wouldn't recommend to any noobie or person openly willing to understand and comprehend your vast knowledge of the technology behind exploiting a phone and unlocking it for further control - and instead getting a snobbish pie to the face, that's almost as shameful as a student coming to class to learn, and the teacher throwing the book at them for wanting to learn.
So until this changes - I will gladly spread around the net how horrible my experience was here and recommend that anyone wanting to know how to root their phone AVOID xda and go some place else where asking questions because one simply doesn't understand or know is tolerated.
Thanks and so long. It's sure been fun (not really, you've got a pretty big set of set of a**holes on here. I'd rather visit 4chan and be bombarded by trolls than endure snobbish users who cant take a single question and be nice about it.)
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
alex.ap.pacman said:
It's not like this has been my first encounter with picky, xda members, and frankly if some dev or user cant take that noob has a question then why have a forum for "help"? Its upsetting because this is a widespread issue - people getting upset because noobs ask questions.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Honestly, you got what was coming to you and frankly you deserved it. Judging by the second quote here I can tell that you really don't understand the purpose of XDA and as such losing you really won't be a loss. You seem also to be a generally unpleasant person by the way you intentionally misquoted the people in your thread, and the fact that you expected this to be some sort of help service. You didn't search before posting (I'm sure there are thousands of guides out there) and you definitely didn't provide enough information. You say 'I need help with rooting' - well what specific part of the process? And if you just want a guide, then why not follow an already existing one? If you're following an already existing guide and the OP is open to questions, why not just ask there rather than creating a new thread? One more thing you didn't account for before replying like a douche to the person who answered to is the fact that he's from Ghana and the likelihood is that English is not his primary language. Google translate never works well.
One way i can understand the OP's frustration with the way some members respond to newcomers. But you will not win any sympathy with the way you have responded, specially with the wording in this thread regarding how you expect XDA to serve you. I am all for helping people and getting them started in there android journey. But at the same time i am not happy to help someone only for them to keep asking constant questions specially after i helped them out and pointing them to were to read.
and another thing. rather than complaining in a thread were basically you are using foul language you could of just reported any issues you faced.
anyways hope you change your mind about XDA and give this place a chance cause once you get started you will get addicted to it. all the best
and no offense checking your date since you started here it seems that you have been here a while. so for someone who has been here a while but not posted much i would still have expected you to realize by now how XDA works....anyways if you need any hand with anything just let me know via PM and i see if i can help you out with any issues you may have
I agree with the others. You really overreacted and seem to have an attitude. There was nothing wrong with the post your linked to and like someone else said, it was wrong to paraphrase it the way you did. It was not the least bit harsh. The other day in the Samsung Galaxy Tab 10.1 section someone told me to "shut up and f*** off". Now that's harsh. The response you got? Not at all. He was trying to tell you you need to provide more details that's all.
Alright, i am one of those people that seem to get on your nerves.
I'll tell you why, because there is a big and clear search button on your face in every page, you learned about it when registering and watching the registration video, and still refused to use it.
You asked a question that 2 million people asked before you, and still want members to waste their time and answer you AGAIN.
Use the search button = be happy.
Until then, don't expect everyone to be nice.
G L Reply
You never know. Each forum has its own set of good members, bad members, and downright annoying ones. If your device's forum has an excess of "downright annoying", there's not a whole lot you can do beside a) using a different website or b) crossing your fingers that you'll never have device specific questions.
It almost creates a whole new dimension on "device buying factors" :laugh:. You might wind up with a device whose XDA DEVELOPERS subforum is full of jerks. Thankfully, I got my questions answered before they tried to ban my account because they didn't like me, lol.
It's a tough spot to be in, and there's not a whole lot of advice I can give you on this other than "Good Luck".
- 2B
Unfortunately on the Internets, people can be jerks. The best thin you can do is ignore trolls and try to do as much research on your own as you can so that you sound like you've tried before asking for help. Nothing seems to bate a troll more than asking (what they consider to be) stupid/noob questions. I'm not saying it's right, just saying you can help avoid it yourself since you can't control other people.
Sorry you had a bad experience, but flaming the board to others essentially badmouths an entire community based on a small group's actions.
To the OP I understand completely and like someone said, people normally will live in different time zones. With that said it will usually take hours to respond with a answer..
For my nexus root, I asked questions before hand to Tiny* a great kernel dev who helped the droid incredible community. He had a nexus. Although his into was vague I went to the nexus forums and went to the toolkit/root area "Mskip" and asked some questions, they weren't actually answered and left me with the reaction as "okay, this community is actually stuck up".
So then from there I searched various YouTube videos and eventually found out using a toolkit is bad, I was about to use it. So I researched some more and eventually found a steady great adb guide.
I rooted without hassle and astonished after rooting and seeing some comments to others wanting to root. J
Just answer his question and don't be a jerk.. remember you were once in his shoes at one time. Each person wanting root I recommend adb root and give them the guide.
There is no reason to act snotty to others wanting help.
There is even a better way to help others "Team viewer" as this will help anyone not familiar with rooting or just don't know what to do.
Sent from my Galaxy Nexus using Tapatalk 2
Nope. Haven't Seen That.
mf2112 said:
Hmmm, I guess there are a lot of cultural differences, but I read those comments and I only see one that "might" rise to the level of harsh and none that rise to the level of "fight". Compared to what I have seen in this type of situation before, those comments are pretty much average.
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As a long-time troll of the site, I can honestly say that XDA is one of the most n00b-friendly forums out there. The technical information is easy to find. It's updated frequently, and there's a very supportive and vibrant community here that adds very real value to the technology we all use.
The site DOES require you to actually read and follow threads to get the information you want. That's a good thing, right? After all, we're all here to learn and the best way to do that is to be personally engaged in the process.
I see Devs and other forum members regularly direct people to useful threads or other site links to get them the information they're looking for. I've very rarely seen a flame from anyone on the site and if it does happen it's generally warranted. You can only answer the same "how do I get teh rootz" so often before someone gets set on fire.
The mods do set expectations for community users here. They make to read before you post. They only let new folks post in certain areas until they understand how the site works. I really wish more sites were like this.
If a user "gets it" and becomes a viable community member for this site they're going to get a great experience, learn some really cool stuff, and meet some really brilliant people.
khruska said:
As a long-time troll of the site, I can honestly say that XDA is one of the most n00b-friendly forums out there. The technical information is easy to find. It's updated frequently, and there's a very supportive and vibrant community here that adds very real value to the technology we all use.
The site DOES require you to actually read and follow threads to get the information you want. That's a good thing, right? After all, we're all here to learn and the best way to do that is to be personally engaged in the process.
I see Devs and other forum members regularly direct people to useful threads or other site links to get them the information they're looking for. I've very rarely seen a flame from anyone on the site and if it does happen it's generally warranted. You can only answer the same "how do I get teh rootz" so often before someone gets set on fire.
The mods do set expectations for community users here. They make to read before you post. They only let new folks post in certain areas until they understand how the site works. I really wish more sites were like this.
If a user "gets it" and becomes a viable community member for this site they're going to get a great experience, learn some really cool stuff, and meet some really brilliant people.
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+1
You can't be as noob as i was when i first joined. I knew literally nothing about android. Big diff from some of the noobs now? I joined xda to LEARN. Now i at least know java (which is a start). I can't make a rom from source (yet) but i'm getting there (still a long way though). Problem is a lot of new members join to ask questions that's been answered a dozen times before... and that's sad.
I do try to help out when i can, but lately i find myself reporting threads than actually answering the op's questions...
It's really not that hard to search (unless you'e on the app - if you are then you're probably screwed ).
Sent from my rooted tomato using xda app
My goodness lol I know a lot about hacking, my phone, roms ,general troubleshooting and a lot of other things and also a lot about forums and the vermin that live in them. I just don't say much because I never was a forum posting guy I'm a do it my self guy. Throwing "NOOB" around to some guy/girl that just wants to know how to operate or troubleshoot his/her galaxy that he paid a great deal for is b.s. I read countless a** hole replies that don't even answer the question, a lot of the answers are just failed attempts to sound like the "cool" sarcastic guy that sits in the back of a remedial math class. I've been coming to xda since I had a g2 (never registered) and slowly and slowly the community is turning from people that would kind of help you to d**ks with a false sense of entitlement that reply with a totally unreasonable response. Yeah it's common knowledge to a lot of people but some people really don't know what they are doing and don't want a brick and need the help of this lovely community. I'm not ranting its just my opinion on whats CLEARLY going on if you don't like it f*** off and go fly a kite.
I do not support smart guys who constantly ask eta questions though.
The problem I see is that, as you say, these people don't know what they're doing and want the information handed to them.
I've never seen a post get a BAD response when the person clearly outlined their problem and explained what they already knew and why their research wasn't getting them anywhere.
The people that DON'T make posts like that need to do some research - not just have the information thrown at them for their own good. Think about if you just gave someone information on how to build and operate a bomb without them knowing how it worked and how to do it safely. Sure, they're probably not going to lose fingers - but they could brick an expensive device and it's kinder to give some tough love and pointing in the direction of research, knowledge, and understanding before they make a mess that they can't get out of.
In the words of H.P. Lovecraft : "Do not call up that which you can not put down".
Yeah I know what your saying and I agree. Just that some people ask questions live what boxes should I check in Odin, whats a zip lol, should I wipe b4 or after, what original dev, how do I root. Those a simple questions and they are common knowledge to a lot (maybe not how do I root because many things can go wrong if you derp it up). These can get simple responses or links but ppl will post turd responses like noon read the op, we answers that in 2011 look it up, just don't root. Stuff like that I'm not saying go in to depth with a dude asking about something when he doesn't ever know the dos, don'ts and risk. I know I'm not the only one there's threads about it.
Sent from my SGH-T999 who wishes it was red and not American.
I agree 100%. The thing that irritates the F out of me is the few that run around here acting like they know it all... Then ***** and say search, then like each others post for being asshats to someone who asked a simple question that deserved a simple answer. I do occasionally call them out but it doesn't do any good.
Sent from my SGH-T999 using Tapatalk 2
Lol yeah one guy asked does any one know where I can find the inverted YouTube I'm new.. A did responded Noob you'll find it in a different section. Thank me for the help.
Then a civilized guy posted a link to the apk (which is simple to find for the average user) and said to the guy above something like I think this is what you meant to do but the xda douche in you did not allow it.
Sent from my SGH-T999
Because they think they are cool when in reality they are more noobish than the person they are replying to. There's a simple if you don't have anything good to say dont say nothing at all...but I guess their mamas didn't teach them that common sense.
For some reason they rather reply being a total dipsh*t than simply IGNORE the post. Don't get me wrong some of the replies Realy are deserving like the ones when the person constantly whines about their problem and want to b*tch aT the dev...most of the time noobs...such as my self just want simply answered because we've search and couldn't find the answers or we found an answers but it pertains to another device.
They probably didn't get much love from high school so wants to be the cool jogs here
Sent from my SGH-T999 using xda premium
From the moderator
To all in this thread.......
Most of the moderators would appreciate it if everyone were considerate, kind and patient........BUT......... that said,
Some do act with arrogance and inconsideration, ......report them we are here to assist.
Understand that the important responsibilities of a member is to Read enough that they can understand what to ask and how to ask it.
One of the overriding problems with XDA is we (the members) are not from one country, or one culture..so, many have to use Google translator or some other method to post in in English.
This creates an additional layer of misunderstanding, which in turn, makes things even more complicated.
Couple all of this with have a bunch of adolescent kids posting as well..... and now you have described XDA.......
So, with this explanation......it basically means to be patient, polite and considerate and when others begin to troll, or flame report them, this keeps these inconsiderates participation to a minimum
Unfortunately, this is thread is way to prone to escalating a flame-war....
Thank you for posting and "venting" off some of the common frustration we all feel from time to time....
...........THREAD CLOSED..........
~~~ oka1
There is also the thread below that you can link people to regarding their posting attitudes.
Posting Etiquette - Don't Anger a Developer