Related
I have frequented this site over the past few weeks or so and am outright disturbed by the disrespect some "NEW" members are getting. I haven't actually encountered this personally, but as I have read numerous post, I see things that make me want to turn around and split! Senior members calling names and being VERY rude to existing and newer members. Is this really tolerated here? I really hope not because I like the site for the most part. I just refuse to be part of a forum that lets rudeness and disrespect go unattended.
I don't mean to be a bother, but the forum I moderate at would NEVER let this happen. We BAN members for disrespecting one another. I thought that's what I would encounter here as well.
I am not really looking for a response here, just wanted to let someone who cares know what I experienced over the past few weeks here as a new member. Thank you to whomever takes the time and interest to read this.
-Tommy
NOTE TO ALL: DO NOT POST REPLIES TO THIS THREAD! IT HAS BEEN DISCUSSED ALREADY. THANKS -Tommy
Thank you for the quick reply. I'm glad to see you guys are aware of this and working to cut down on the rudeness. I myself have told "newer" members to search instead of posting new threads that look like new mods as well. I do like the site though, and will continue to frequent it. I am SOLD on htc's, as I have recently chased a TD2 and love it. I will also be able to contribute new mods as soon as I can get used to the platform.
Thanks again,
-Tommy
tomtommy306 said:
Senior members calling names and being VERY rude to existing and newer members.
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Tommy, I'm someone who felt, 2 years ago, exactly what you describe here. It was always justified as senior members getting tired of volunteering their time to help people -- only to have some new members bypass reading any "sticky threads" or any admonitions to "please read before posting a new thread" (in which tips are provided for how to get answers to frequently asked questions) -- and seemingly never bothering to search at all.
Over the past 2 years I have observed 2 things, trend-wise: (1) Once I gained some decent baseline proficiency in understanding how the basics work re upgrading my phone with new & improved software, I then started to see, as though appearing for the first time (but they were always present) the TONS of repeated questions and downright disrespect some new members had for even following the most basic of protocols -- like -- "please post that at the forum dedicated to your phone model; you can find it here..." generating responses like
"I don't have time for that. I just need to know what HardSPL means and where I can find the latest ROM for my T-Mobile Wing"
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Personally I attribute a HUGE amount of this to the less-than-optimal information design of this site, which sends people back and forth from here to there to a wiki, then searching for acronyms and definitions, then to a sticky thread (MANY OF WHICH ARE NOW OUTDATED AND HAVE BEEN FOR OVER A YEAR), then back to a hacking section, being shouted at that "this isn't for asking questions, moron; this is for contributing software hacks", and eventually generating some dog-chasing-tail experiences for new members. One of the people working his damned hardest to help minimize this is nir36 (SHOUTOUT!) with his excellent GUIDES, and with his patience within the "Questions and Answers" section.
But -- (2) Here's what I have also seen: A huge disruption of culture here at XDA, prompted, I believe, by the mainstreaming of touchscreen phones with the introduction of Apple's iPhone. Two- to three- to four years ago, the people who frequented this site were predominantly hackers who banded together to solve many of the deficiencies of WindowsMobile software, and who shared their expertise knowing that other people's expertise would benefit them and solve annoying problems, or push a certain envelope. There was, as a result, a culture of CONTRIBUTION, vs one of "gimme gimme gimme, I don't have time, just gimme".
I've seen many an essay posted here by veteran members of XDA expressing a real frustration for some of the behaviors caused by the new influx of people seeing tricks and hacks now posted on YouTube, and then discovering XDA, and coming here to "find that and get it onto my device".
This has created a culture clash which is totally understandable from both sides of of the issue. There's more and more abuse of basic rules & process, where, as I said, more people seek to bypass all that rigamaroll and just post wherever it seems to fit, and seek a specific answer about how to get XXX on my device. There are MANY MANY senior members, even veteran senior members who've been here 4-5 years, who still use a soft touch in asking people to "read this FAQ please" or "please post that in THIS forum". But at the same time, when the response to gentle nudges like that is along the lines of "I don't have time for that, I'm in a hurry, and I just need to get this installed", then patience grows thin.
And so yes, of course, you'll see people snapping at one another. But it's born of frustration for the lack of respect of the culture of XDA -- where it had always been part of the quest to have new people work a little at finding answers, not to punish them, but rather to help them connect the dots and see the solutions available to them, and how they often build atop prior work.
Anyway these are my thoughts. I speak only as a member, not as any representative of the site or group of Mods.
I have been looking around quite a bit lately(here @ XDA), and have better feelings about it. There are a lot more helpful and kind people here, then there are rude ones. I guess I was running into a lot of newer members that were being disrespectful to the seniors. I understand the frustrations of members not being appreciative as I see it often where I mod. It does get frustrating when people don't say "please" and "thank you" , but some people must have forgotten what their families have taught them. MANNERS...
I will continue to be around the site.
You ALL do great work here, and I appreciate the time and effort involved.
I rarely ask for help, but I wanted to know it was welcome, just in case.
We are all here for the same thing, and I am very glad to have found XDA to fuel my need.
The site has a great REP, and that means a lot to me.
It was also the reason for concern in the first place.
Thanks again guys,
-Tommy
Note to MODS or ADMINS: PLEASE CLOSE or DELETE THIS THREAD. I am very happy with the responses I have been given, and am happy to be here. The topic will not be brought up again unless ABSOLUTELY necessary.
At least it's not Howard Forums
Seriously, if you see anything that looks bad, PM a moderator or report the post. We do try to respond.
V
vijay555 said:
At least it's not Howard Forums
Seriously, if you see anything that looks bad, PM a moderator or report the post. We do try to respond.
V
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You got that right.... Howard forums are very out there.
That's where I discovered modding cell phones for the first time.
If any complaints were ever to arise(doubtful), I would communicate via PM only.
Thanks vijay.
Sounds like somebody called you a noob and you got all flustered and decided to make a thread about it. Hope things get better for you.
Drybonz said:
Sounds like somebody called you a noob and you got all flustered and decided to make a thread about it. Hope things get better for you.
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Actually..... I hadn't even started to post in the forum when I wrote this.
It was from responses like YOURS here, except to other members that made me start this thread. And I had no intention of keeping it going. It was for admins and mods to read.
I'm no noob at any of this. I work as a computer technician for the city I live in. And I moderate at MMUS.us for quite a while now. Tkali & Insecure Spike can vouch for all of this. They mod there too... and have worked with me since I have been there.
AND LASTLY...... WHY DID YOU RESPOND TO A POST DOING EXACTLY WHAT I OPENLY STATED TO DISLIKING?? Disrespectful at the least.
tomtommy306 said:
Actually..... I hadn't even started to post in the forum when I wrote this.
It was from responses like YOURS here, except to other members that made me start this thread. And I had no intention of keeping it going. It was for admins and mods to read.
I'm no noob at any of this. I work as a computer technician for the city I live in. And I moderate at MMUS.us for quite a while now. Tkali & Insecure Spike can vouch for all of this. They mod there too... and have worked with me since I have been there.
AND LASTLY...... WHY DID YOU RESPOND TO A POST DOING EXACTLY WHAT I OPENLY STATED TO DISLIKING?? Disrespectful at the least.
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Well an assumption is an assumption. There is nothing you can do about it if a skeptic has little information to analyze.
To explain the frustrations of the "meanies" here are two situations I come up with:
Situation 1
The problem is that XDA is very likely to be the most visited forum as a technical support forum but stupid idiots are just too stupid to fix their problem when the answer is right there.
Example
For example, I have seen plenty on the Xperia forums in which some dude asks for panels when it is available as a sticky called "panels library" and the links worked at the moment, and yet the he requests for an existing panel.
Situation 2
Someone asks for a Windows Live Messenger download, and he/she says that he "looked everywhere, up and down" ... I tell him that it's easy to find and he isn't really looking ... he defense himself saying that he really did look ... we say o rly?
Example
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=517909
By the way, I declare this a skeleton war, since both of you are likely to argue and you both have skull faces
I would say, empathise, its not about senior members but about those people who stay a lot on this forum & loves this place too much that they get annoyed when they find someone littering around or violating the rules.
But being a senior member or more so a lover of XDA I would not allow myself to offend anyone's feelings or his/her dignity.
Enjoy & report mods in case you feel something is too offending & the suggestion is going out of context. Cheers
Saksham Katyal
I am a 28 year old male with not much to worry about.
Arguing on a Smart_phone/PPC forum is a little too juvenile for myself.
I was merely reading some threads, saw some rudeness.... read some more.... saw some more.
Then asked if the admins were aware.
I didn't expect it to cause such a stir. WOW!
Most people here have seemed rather decent since I posted this, and I expected nothing from XDA, but a place to learn new things.
I'm not really that concerned about it, just wanted to let the admins know my initial experience.
I was never directly disrespected.... The fact is, I haven't asked for help here at all.
I actually answered a few questions and really nothing more.
So, is there really a need to continue this discussion??
Not for me.... but you guys feel free to continue.
But if a skeleton war is in order...... I have some tattooed on me and am infatuated with them, so I WIN...hahaha
sakshamkatyal said:
I would say, empathise, its not about senior members but about those people who stay a lot on this forum & loves this place too much that they get annoyed when they find someone littering around or violating the rules.
But being a senior member or more so a lover of XDA I would not allow myself to offend anyone's feelings or his/her dignity.
Enjoy & report mods in case you feel something is too offending & the suggestion is going out of context. Cheers
Saksham Katyal
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Very mature words.... This is what I expect from a forum.
Is that your little girl there..... I read about the tragedy.
Broke my heart into a million pieces!!!
tomtommy306 said:
Very mature words.... This is what I expect from a forum.
Is that your little girl there..... I read about the tragedy.
Broke my heart into a million pieces!!!
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No its not mine but it was our's.
Even we are stunned with what happened to her in this little age.
get more about her here.
http://www.supportalessandra.com/
I wish you have a nice time over here. Dont worry xda is community inhabited more by mature people fortunately. Or else mods would be always there.
Regards
Saksham Katyal
tomtommy306 said:
I am a 28 year old male with not much to worry about.
Arguing on a Smart_phone/PPC forum is a little too juvenile for myself.
I was merely reading some threads, saw some rudeness.... read some more.... saw some more.
Then asked if the admins were aware.
I didn't expect it to cause such a stir. WOW!
Most people here have seemed rather decent since I posted this, and I expected nothing from XDA, but a place to learn new things.
I'm not really that concerned about it, just wanted to let the admins know my initial experience.
I was never directly disrespected.... The fact is, I haven't asked for help here at all.
I actually answered a few questions and really nothing more.
So, is there really a need to continue this discussion??
Not for me.... but you guys feel free to continue.
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Lol... I love this thread. You got upset because you saw some guys tell some noobs to search for stuff instead of starting a new thread, so you get all flustered, start a thread about it and then you get all defensive when somebody responds to your post.
OMG I can't believe it caused SUCH A STIR... oh wow.
28 year old male with not much to worry about... lol... this is classic stuff.
Drybonz said:
Lol... I love this thread. You got upset because you saw some guys tell some noobs to search for stuff instead of starting a new thread, so you get all flustered, start a thread about it and then you get all defensive when somebody responds to your post.
OMG I can't believe it caused SUCH A STIR... oh wow.
28 year old male with not much to worry about... lol... this is classic stuff.
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What are you from ebaumsworld? Ya know, I am offended by what you just said, and I'm 19. Does age really matter?
There is always a chance that a question/thread is plausible and that he actually tried to search. And beside, sometimes I get lazy about searching and I just ask the question too. Well actually I ask the question first, and search immediately after because I want to gather all the result as soon as possible.
poetryrocksalot said:
Ya know, I am offended by what you just said, and I'm 19. Does age really matter?
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Dunno... I'm 32 and I was quoting it.
Yeash, this is turning into that thread about religion.
Guys, please.
Noobs: sometimes, seniors get tired of answering the same old questions that can be easily found by a quick google.
Seniors: sometimes noobs are coming from a world of Nokias and iphones. You live in a world where people make ROMs for fun. Seriously.
The lot of you: you live in a world where you rub shoulders with Doctor Manhattan style giants, and don't even know it. Some of the guys on this site will astound you with their knowledge of the intricacies of the minutiae of the encryption systems used in the CE rom structure. They could blow you all away.
Experience is a sliding scale, and even George Lucas knows that "there's always a bigger fish".
Everyone should be polite, you were all noobs once.
V
PS be polite, serious, cus I'll start getting medieval soon.
poetryrocksalot said:
What are you from ebaumsworld? Ya know, I am offended by what you just said, and I'm 19. Does age really matter?
There is always a chance that a question/thread is plausible and that he actually tried to search. And beside, sometimes I get lazy about searching and I just ask the question too. Well actually I ask the question first, and search immediately after because I want to gather all the result as soon as possible.
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Nope, age never has anything to do with it as is evident by Drybonz reply...and like he/she said, he/she is 32. Even at the age of 32 he/she still enjoys coming on to a forum and slamming someone for simply stating something the is bothersome to them, then gets a bigger kick when he/she sees that the reply got under their skin. Sad part is he/she will probably see my reply and some how get joy from it too.
Basically you have 1 of 2 choices on internet forums;
1. Let people bother you and lose sight of why you got on to a forum in the first place just to end up not coming back and missing out because of it.
2. Let it go and realize life is too short to care about people with more guts behind a screen/keyboard and what they have to say. You see a post that bothers you? Skip it and go to the next, simple as that.
wagonis said:
Nope, age never has anything to do with it as is evident by Drybonz reply...and like he/she said, he/she is 32. Even at the age of 32 he/she still enjoys coming on to a forum and slamming someone for simply stating something the is bothersome to them, then gets a bigger kick when he/she sees that the reply got under their skin. Sad part is he/she will probably see my reply and some how get joy from it too.
Basically you have 1 of 2 choices on internet forums;
1. Let people bother you and lose sight of why you got on to a forum in the first place just to end up not coming back and missing out because of it.
2. Let it go and realize life is too short to care about people with more guts behind a screen/keyboard and what they have to say. You see a post that bothers you? Skip it and go to the next, simple as that.
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kudos to you sir
I agree with Wagonis: just ignore any remarks by others that you dislike for any reason.
To Tomtommy: I agree with you that everyone ought to be polite, it is an excellent thing to strive for yourself. But if you let impolite remarks bother you, you just make things worse than they need be. If you ignore them, they will bother you far less. Indignation is a dangerous emotion, because it tends to swell with time. Just let people bicker; when they are really offended, they will make it known. Most people can take a bit of bullying.
[What I am going to say now borders on the insolent, so that I must apologize beforehand, but: I think those who are most insecure about themselves are the ones most easily offended. Those who are confident just think: "oh, an impolite remark" without experiencing much emotional impact. Sometimes, others are judged "offended" even when they themselves do not care.
Another option is that there are just differences in culture: in some groups, rude remarks are considered a form of innocent teasing.]
Ok, i know people should use the search button before posting a question, or submitting an incorrect fact BUT SERIOUSLY every other reply is just another person insulting someone else!
I know it's hard to keep your cool sometimes with people asking/stating the same things over and over, but is there rely the need to be an a*s about it. All thats going to do is provoke a reaction (Because everyone is invincible on the internet) and that will just lead to more useless posting, which if i'm right thats what you were trying to prevent in the first place!
This is not an attack on any person, nor is it meant to cause offense, but honestly forums are about friendship where everyone can come and gain advice/guidance or just have a nice chat to learn(Everyone has to start somewhere) and a lot of people on here are not helping them. Would you like to have someone talk to you like that when you were just starting out and didn't have a clue what you were doing?. . . NO you would want an easy answer so you could learn from it, in the same amount of time it takes to flame someone for not knowing it you could have told the the bloody answer!
I know I'll properly get a lot of people flaming me for this but just needed to get this out my system because i think its out of order.
Like me mum used to say "If you ain't got anything nice to say, pi*s off!"
Billy_M
Billy. said:
I know I'll properly get a lot of people flaming me for this but just needed to get this out my system because i think its out of order.
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Why would you get flamed when all you said is an honest truth?
The forum is full of morons and self appointed forum nazis, hell I could name a few in a split second who do this all the time...
This behaviour is probably induced by the lack of moderator presence. This Desire subforum has couple of thousand posts daily, and I see only two moderators listed.
Sent from my HTC Desire using Tapatalk
Like it or not, this is a forum - and a HUGE one at that, as erklat has said, thousands of posts each day. This make stringent enforcement hard.
And every forum that I have ever been to seemed to have (sadly, but is it avoidable?) a social structure, whether clearly displayed or not - and probably, that's the way its going to be (for a long time to come).
oursoul said:
Too many ******* can't take bit if banter.
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big difference between taking the piss out of someone and abusing them tho....
it comes down to laziness on users. People want information given to them on a plate and not have to find it themselves. The issue is that rule number 1 of the forum rules is to search
If you can't follow a simple rule then you deserve to get flamed
Sent from my HTC Desire using XDA App
So maybe I'm just reading the handfull of threads that are being actively policed by the moderators...
Or maybe I have a really thick skin..
Or maybe the very few people whom I do see getting flamed actually deserve what they're getting (i.e. those who expressly list in their post that they can't be arsed to search and those who have the gall to post in developer threads with "your rom sucks, I'll never use it unless you add ...")..
Whatever the cause, I simply don't agree with your observation. People here are being genuinely helpful and the mods are doing a great job cleaning up bad posts and flames (as evidenced by those "thread cleaned" posts every now and then).
Depends on the section. It's ruined the Dev section because of leniency so there's a major clamp-down now in process, which I obviously applaud.
I have not till date seen anyone of thousands ask a valid question/concern and be policed, ridiculed or flamed. The help here is extremely benevolent and common. However, hundreds make invalid, undeserving posts justifying scorn but get away with it with smiles in response. That's the other, bigger side of what you mention.
I hate the playground child forum behavior immensely too. Trust me, so do the mods I've come across. I've seen quite a few past the limits on this. The users who reply and continuously flame are usually just as bad, except the one offs and the ones justified. They're meant to simply report the one breaking the rules and mods will deal with them as justified.
In my limited experience, 99% of those opposing/objecting to following the set rules don't have a clue about them but have big mouths and like to talk any nonsense to justify what they did. They are clueless about the rules on xda-dev and what this place is all about long before they were ever aware of it. The 'mantra' here. They come on here expecting the place to follow their own personal beliefs and rules, just causing havoc. That's why mods say, if you be so, better find somewhere else. And if a user repeats the obvious oft-repeated, that insults and offends everyone. It's a spit in their face, and of the mods, and it is bound to anger many with justification. Those who abide by the rules have placed much time and effort in doing so. Don't expect them to just laugh around while another just comes storming in trampling on them with great disregard. The same goes in every sphere of life.
The internet shows time and time again how modern society en-masse fails grossly in the honesty, decency, humility, intelligence and mentality departments. Greed, ego and stupidity rule, that's why places like xda-dev need to have firm rules enforced to maintain some quality. This place was always known for quality, and having spoken to mods, I know they work hard - for free - to maintain it as so. Be human, have some regard for them and others here before posting.
------------------------------
- Sent via HTC Desire -
What I would ask, is that people who see something that offends you, report it.
We can't read every post in every forum, but I can tell you that each and every report is seen and acted upon. We rely on members helping us to root out the bad apples.
This is what I've posted in the Oxygen thread. I think it sums up my feelings on this subject.
The frustration shown here by both AdamG, and _thalamus, must surely give people an indication of how annoying it is to see a thread be totally ruined by people who are too lazy to try and help themselves.
It's sad that you need reminded that the people who develop roms and post them here, do so for no personal gain, and do so to try and help us all get the best possible user experience from our devices.
The sad fact of life in today's society is that people want to be spoon-fed, they are too lazy to carry out a simple piece of research, and they demand that they get what they want, when they want. Then once they get it, they demand more. This is not what XDA-Developers is all about. If you need to ask what this forum is for, then you surely are in the wrong place.
Please take a moment and ask yourself, do you find your device now runs faster, smoother, is faster updated etc? If the answer is yes, then that is down to the dedication of the developers here. If you drive them away with your laziness, rudeness, demands etc, then you only have yourself to blame.
Please show the developers some respect. If you feel they owe you something, then do us all a favour and move on to somewhere else.
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Lol, bad apples
erklat said:
This behaviour is probably induced by the lack of moderator presence.
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No. This behaviour is usually induced by a severe lack of self esteem on the part of the bully.
In my opinion, if a question is deemed flammable, just report it instead of answering.
This can achieve two goals. People will start to understand that it will be faster to search instead of demand. And for those "Are we there yet"s, each unjustified bumps/reposts would count as multiples infractions. Thus, a faster banning.
I must agree will that
Sent from my HTC Desire using XDA App
ignore?
As with all twats to cross in your way and hurl abuse.....IGNORE them,we are adults.most of us anyway..why is there a thread for this lol.
DoomFragger said:
In my opinion, if a question is deemed flammable, just report it instead of answering.
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That's very true. Flaming somebody for an idiotic post instead of reporting it makes about as much sense as posting only "Cool, thanks" instead of using the "Thanks" button. Waste of space.
I have noticed recentlyl that that the people who know stuff have reduced their posts. This is counter productive. But I can understand why. And I've seen some bad advice given by others.
Don't know what the solution is tho....
Bye
Sent from my HTC Desire using Tapatalk
mikep99 said:
I have noticed recentlyl that that the people who know stuff have reduced their posts.
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Maybe they get tired of answering the same questions over and over.
At least, instead of flaming, they just ignore it.
foresterr said:
Flaming somebody for an idiotic post instead of reporting it makes about as much sense as posting only "Cool, thanks" instead of using the "Thanks" button. Waste of space.
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You got totally wrong perception about flaming. If someone posts a question about recommended radio for the tenth time, and you go with flaming and rudeness, it points out one and only thing - you are even worse than him/her, he is not in the violation of the forum rules, you are. In that situation you either respond to help, or you don't respond at all. A binary choice. You are either a smoker or a non smoker. You can't be a moron in that story and smoke an electronic cigar. Well, this is similar.
Sometimes I reply to silly posts, sometimes I don't. I don't make a drama out of it. The problem of this and other forums are illiterate halfwits who are unable to keep a decent intellectual and communicational level in their posts.
Sent from my HTC Desire using Tapatalk
erklat said:
The problem of this and other forums are illiterate halfwits who are unable to keep a decent intellectual and communicational level in their posts.
Sent from my HTC Desire using Tapatalk
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just because someones primary language might not be English doesn't make them an illiterate halfwit. I think many of the communication issues in this and other forums can be chalked up to a language barrier.
I got flamed a bit in the post i made about ROMs. Pissed me off a bit, but i just ignored it.
As someone new to this forum, but some experience in other specialized forums for many years I was at first surprised and then a bit angered about the massive amount of totally useless posts.
I bought my first smartphone last year and after some weeks I found in xda the richest fountain of information. The first time it is not easy to learn, especially if you have to wade through pages and pages of silly, pointless and sometimes downright dumb posts. Extremely annoying are the repeated questions about a problem, which is explained thouroughly in the first 3 or 4 posts of a thread, as this is a proof for the total disregard of the OP, who is often the developer.
I think, this "I wanna be spoon-fed and pampered"-behaviour is actually encouraged in our society - the sad point is, in the late nineties these kind of people couldn´t post in forums - it was simply too complicated for them to use a computer
Today every simpleton with the ability to push a button can post in forums like this - with the observable consequences. Phewww /end rant
What to do about it - I don´t know. In other forums I have seen, the quality gets better through massive and sometimes hard moderation - but these forums were much smaller than xda.
So I can understand the anger, but it is as pointless as the silly questions: it only wastes space and makes threads harder to read.
Reporting pointless posts to moderation with a warning to the poster and maybe a strict "3-strikes and you´re out"-rule would bring some success, but also an massive amount of discussion about censorship, freedom of expression etc.
What to say: I´ll read and maybe sometimes post a question and hope, that this massive fountain of information will not become a mere trickle.
English is not my mother-tongue, therefore my use of grammar might be sometimes a little funny.
Anyone that has been reading the Dev section or been in the IRC chat has probably seen plenty of flaming going on by some people that think they're Elite compared to everyone else. If you think another chatroom would be nice for users to get help when needed without fear of getting banned, flamed, yelled at, told to STFU, ridiculed or more, then let's set it up.
XDA is about a community of users and devs helping each other to tweak their phones as a hobby. Let's get the friendliness back into these forums and start helping each other out.
There's quite a few options for IRC chat, EFnet, Undernet, Mibbit, Freenode, etc. What's everyone's preference? I'm also voting myself NOT to be an Op, I have limited time available between working 50-60 hours a week, having time for my wife and kids, and doing Android app development on the side.
-Daryel
If I can ever help. PLEASE don't hesitate to ask.
Great post....
Rob
Sent from my SPH-D710 using xda premium
Excellent idea.
I've also wondered if it might be helpful to have a separate E4GT Q&A forum (similar to what's set up for the international SGS2):
http://forum.xda-developers.com/forumdisplay.php?f=1148
geekaren said:
Excellent idea.
I've also wondered if it might be helpful to have a separate E4GT Q&A forum (similar to what's set up for the international SGS2):
http://forum.xda-developers.com/forumdisplay.php?f=1148
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Once we have 1,000 threads in General or 10,000 posts in General we'll be able to split that out - XDA rules.
Glad to hear a Q&A forum will be an option in future.
Thanks, jerdog!
not for nothing daryelv, but you keep making it appear as though you were just an innocent victim to an irc tirade. that simply is not the case. you did everything you could to badger and harass a rom dev about something that everyone in the thread clearly understood. before jumping on here to cry to whomever will listen, try taking a moment to look at the situation and figure out why the results were what they were. people here, that were not there at the time, have no idea what happened, only your word. there are two sides to every conflict. making it seem as though you were just randomly assaulted is irresponsible.
Perhaps if everyone searched for their issue, took some initiative, and did some research before posting they would get flamed a lot less.
henbone11 said:
not for nothing daryelv, but you keep making it appear as though you were just an innocent victim to an irc tirade. that simply is not the case. you did everything you could to badger and harass a rom dev about something that everyone in the thread clearly understood. before jumping on here to cry to whomever will listen, try taking a moment to look at the situation and figure out why the results were what they were. people here, that were not there at the time, have no idea what happened, only your word. there are two sides to every conflict. making it seem as though you were just randomly assaulted is irresponsible.
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Oh, I know I was banned for asking why an Op didn't update his thread to make things a little more clearer so there would be fewer questions on it. It's when 4 other people jumped into the conversation and started calling me an idiot, a f-ing indian, and more that things went way overboard.
It's not just me though, look through all the chat logs and you will see a repeated pattern of attacks by anyone coming into the chat room to ask about the LOS problem, or wants to ask about Rev B, or has a question about a ROM. It's usually 1 or 2 Ops jumping down the user's throat telling them to "STFU" and then kicking them out.
Anyone voicing their opinion usually gets kicked if it doesn't match the opinions of the Ops. I'm sorry, but the playground has been taken over by a bunch of bullies that sit waiting to tell someone to F-off. That's why we're looking at possibly making a new playground. If you don't like it, don't come. If you want to discuss this more, do it in PM.
-Daryel
henbone11 said:
not for nothing daryelv, but you keep making it appear as though you were just an innocent victim to an irc tirade. that simply is not the case. you did everything you could to badger and harass a rom dev about something that everyone in the thread clearly understood. before jumping on here to cry to whomever will listen, try taking a moment to look at the situation and figure out why the results were what they were. people here, that were not there at the time, have no idea what happened, only your word. there are two sides to every conflict. making it seem as though you were just randomly assaulted is irresponsible.
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While I wasn't privy to what you are referring to, have to agree that in general this is a very true statement. I'm not taking sides here at all but in my experience this is a common concern across the boards, regardless of devices.
XDA is a development community but we would be nothing without a user base. We need to lead by example and do our best to be patient with those that are new to the game. We were all there once.
With that said, as a newer user you have a responsibility to research, read, search and read some more before you start asking questions that have been answered over and over again. I'm a patient guy and I love helping people that need help but it honestly does get a bit rough when people don't take the time to at least try to learn before bombarding you with questions about your ROM when the answers are in the OP. If the user would have taken the time to read they would have found what they were looking for. You have to understand that you are one of many people asking the same questions over and over again. So if your met in an unpleasant way, sometimes thats why. Not that it makes it right but maybe just a bit of insight.
We need to all work together and make this community worth participating in.
At the end of the day, all this stuff is about a phone. Trust me, there are much bigger and more important things in life to worry about than a phone......
Well hit 1ooo threads by the end of the week
But there is probably 1oooo post by now
Sent from my SPH-D710 using xda premium
xak944 said:
Perhaps if everyone searched for their issue, took some initiative, and did some research before posting they would get flamed a lot less.
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You make a great point, but it doesn't matter. Someone could ask a question after spending days searching for an answer and still get flamed. These no way to know if someone has taken the time to search, so people that are really trying to learn and have put the time in themselves are getting lumped into the same group as those to lazy to use the search button.
Actually, I was present in irc for the exchange.
I had the same confusion as daryelv with regards to the question he was asking, and it's not because "i cant red gud." In fact, if daryelv hadn't asked the question, then I wouldn't have flashed the rom due to the confusion. So I, for one, benefited from the clarification.
But when he pointed out the source of the confusion, he did get flamed and it did turn racist. It's too bad, because it was all really over an outdated sentence in the rom thread disclaimer, and it was pretty unnecessary.
I get the hard work that devs put into their projects; I wouldn't want to be bothered with dumb questions either. But there was a genuine confusion and a lack of receptiveness in hearing about it.
To be honest, douchebaggery is rampant at most android forums. Take a gender at the CM7 port for the touchpad thread at rootzwiki.
Ill credit it to the expansion of android
Sent from my SPH-D710 using XDA App
fadetobolivia said:
Actually, I was present in irc for the exchange.
I had the same confusion as daryelv with regards to the question he was asking, and it's not because "i cant red gud." In fact, if daryelv hadn't asked the question, then I wouldn't have flashed the rom due to the confusion. So I, for one, benefited from the clarification.
But when he pointed out the source of the confusion, he did get flamed and it did turn racist. It's too bad, because it was all really over an outdated sentence in the rom thread disclaimer, and it was pretty unnecessary.
I get the hard work that devs put into their projects; I wouldn't want to be bothered with dumb questions either. But there was a genuine confusion and a lack of receptiveness in hearing about it.
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I had this very same discussion back in the Epic 4G forums earlier in the year. Something that everyone needs to understand is that the developers are no better than anyone else. Everyone in the community plays a role.
I would argue that the developers should be setting the example of how to conduct one's self and not fall victim to the god complex that has affected some of us. I always throw my friend k0nane under the bus at times like this not because of anything he has done wrong but because of the example he sets. He is easily one of the best developers I've met and yet he treats everyone with respect and affords them the dignity that they deserve.
There will always be a-holes out there but if you lower yourselves to there level than your no better than they are.
As developers, we need to remember that we are no better than anyone else. Everyone deserves to be treated with respect whether they are developing or simply asking an honest question.
Please remember that the Epic Touch 4G is only a phone. Life is way bigger than this and if the biggest thing you have to worry about is flashing a phone than count yourself lucky.
This is way to early in the cycle to have the forums going down the toilet. Take control back and lead by example. You should NOT be afraid to ask a question, especially if you tried to find the answer or simply need clarification.
While I'm far from the best developer I do always try to respond to everyone's questions and PM's. Hit my up on my blog and send me an email. I'll get back to you when I can. Please don't ever be afraid to ask me a question.
Let's keep this community moving forward.
Sent from my SPH-D710 using Tapatalk
daryelv said:
Oh, I know I was banned for asking why an Op didn't update his thread to make things a little more clearer so there would be fewer questions on it. It's when 4 other people jumped into the conversation and started calling me an idiot, a f-ing indian, and more that things went way overboard.
It's not just me though, look through all the chat logs and you will see a repeated pattern of attacks by anyone coming into the chat room to ask about the LOS problem, or wants to ask about Rev B, or has a question about a ROM. It's usually 1 or 2 Ops jumping down the user's throat telling them to "STFU" and then kicking them out.
Anyone voicing their opinion usually gets kicked if it doesn't match the opinions of the Ops. I'm sorry, but the playground has been taken over by a bunch of bullies that sit waiting to tell someone to F-off. That's why we're looking at possibly making a new playground. If you don't like it, don't come. If you want to discuss this more, do it in PM.
-Daryel
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It's because all of these things have been answered, or there's a thread dedicated directly to it. It takes only a few seconds to search. I'm not a dev and I already find it irritating seeing 5 new threads about the same thing every day. If people would simply search on the forums, or even do a quick Google search, I'm 100% sure they'll find the answer to any questions about any of the topics you just brought up.
ptfdmedic said:
I had this very same discussion back in the Epic 4G forums earlier in the year. Something that everyone needs to understand is that the developers are no better than anyone else. Everyone in the community plays a role.
I would argue that the developers should be setting the example of how to conduct one's self and not fall victim to the god complex that has affected some of us. I always throw my friend k0nane under the bus at times like this not because of anything he has done wrong but because of the example he sets. He is easily one of the best developers I've met and yet he treats everyone with respect and affords them the dignity that they deserve.
There will always be a-holes out there but if you lower yourselves to there level than your no better than they are.
As developers, we need to remember that we are no better than anyone else. Everyone deserves to be treated with respect whether they are developing or simply asking an honest question.
Please remember that the Epic Touch 4G is only a phone. Life is way bigger than this and if the biggest thing you have to worry about is flashing a phone than count yourself lucky.
This is way to early in the cycle to have the forums going down the toilet. Take control back and lead by example. You should NOT be afraid to ask a question, especially if you tried to find the answer or simply need clarification.
While I'm far from the best developer I do always try to respond to everyone's questions and PM's. Hit my up on my blog and send me an email. I'll get back to you when I can. Please don't ever be afraid to ask me a question.
Let's keep this community moving forward.
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Theoretically, no devs aren't better than anyone else. Realistically, yes they are. They are the people who spend hundreds of hours (unpaid) doing something that directly benefits you. I'm sure they get hundreds of the same question every single day that they've answered already. If I were a dev, spending all my time doing something for other people, then get spammed with messages because someone is too lazy to spend a few seconds of their time (when I'm spending hours of my own) searching the forums, I'd get pissed too. Have you ever donated to a dev? Have you ever even said thank you for all of their hard work? Why are the only things devs get repetitive questions and complaints?
Anyone with questions about Odin, flashing, or need help finding an apk you accidentally deleted or just have a general question, PM me anytime. It wasn't very long ago that I had to search to see what root was. Ask anyone with an Epic..I will help out in any way I can so don't hesitate to ask. On a side note, I sure am glad ptfdmedic got an ET4G...pure class and he was the same way on the Epic threads as well. That's why everyone over there respects him so much.
Sent from my SPH-D710 using xda premium
i dont know what exactly happened in the IRC, buuut like someone posted earlier... there are two sides of the story so im not agreeing with anybody, BUT i will point this out...
the person asking the question was right in the sense of asking a question because s/he was confused... on the other other hand, i understand ppl here repeat a lot of questions that have an open thread on that very same subject and make devs inpatient but turning this into a racist argument was uncalled for in my opinion... what does being indian, even if the person asking the question isnt one, have to do with being confused?
seems silly to me, cuz being confused DOES NOT have anything to do with color or race! just my two cents....
I don't understand why people have to make racial comments. Not just in Daryl's story but there are other instances I saw. Nobody is better than anyone else. We all come for the same reason. If u can't handle don't log on. It would make the thread less crowded if u answered that repetitive question instead of flaming them. If anyone has anyone questions that they want to ask they can pm me as well. I know JC will go out of his way as well as ptfdmedic. There are more as well.
The Evo3D Killer!!!
musclehead84 said:
I don't understand why people have to make racial comments. Not just in Daryl's story but there are other instances I saw. Nobody is better than anyone else. We all come for the same reason. If u can't handle don't log on. It would make the thread less crowded if u answered that repetitive question instead of flaming them. If anyone has anyone questions that they want to ask they can pm me as well. I know JC will go out of his way as well as ptfdmedic. There are more as well.
The Evo3D Killer!!!
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No one said there aren't people out there that are helpful, but continuing to ask the same questions that are asked in threads pretty much daily when there's a search function is pretty frustrating.
I do agree that bringing anything racial (or anything offensive) was incredibly immature and wrong. There's absolutely no reason to be rude, but people to need to be more aware of how to get answers other than spamming devs with the same questions.
Ever notice how these forums are CRAWLING!!!! with the know-it-all put-you-down small-person inferiority-complex type? These are the ones who, even though you used the damn search for three hours before posting a thread, and did not find your answer, they respond to your post with "USE THE SEARCH!!!!!" W T F !!!! They flame the hell out of such members and drive away even some devs because they are just selfish a$$hole know-it-alls. And I LOVE how they will FLAME THE HELL out of anyone who posts a question thread in the dev section claiming it's against the rules, when in fact it's NOT!!! There is no WRITTEN rule here that states that (unlike at PPCGEEKS which DOES have such a written rule), they FLAME people on the claim that these people are violating such a sacred rule, which doesn't actually exist, and yet they are somehow exempt from the explicit written rule of not flaming! If I was a mod, I would seriously devote my time to finding these people and BANNING THEM!!! I've seen people, who have serious, time sensitive problems to solve, and post in more than one forum hoping to get a speedy answer, and some BRILLIANT WIZARD comes along and flames them for CROSS POSTING!!! ARE YOU SERIOUS!? If someone is in desperate need of getting their phone fixed they are not going to be persuaded by some a$$h013 KNOW IT ALL wannabe forum HALL MONITOR bossing them! W!, T!, F!,
You know HOW MANY TIMES I've done a search for a problem, found a thread with someone who has the SAME PROBLEM, but the ONLY RESPONSE listed is someone saying "USE THE SEARCH AND DON'T CLUTTER UP THE FORUM!!!! THIS HAS BEEN DISCUSSED!!!!" yet for some reason that is the ONLY DAMN THREAD I can find on it!!!! HOW I *LOVE* finding such HELPFUL THREADS!!!
I've read posts by devs who have left or severely LIMITED their work due to people they call "HATERS". Good job. Seriously, yelling at someone who is asking for help is lame and such responses should be deleted and people with such attitudes BANNED!
And how many TIMES do you find someone who posts a question in the DEV section and some EINSTEIN comes along and their ONLY REPLY is "THIS NEEDS TO BE MOVED!! DON'T POST QUESTIONS IN THE DEV SECTION!!!" W T F!!!! These types of people need to be banned for life. Making people afraid to ask questions hinders growth and due to the lack of it my love for searching and using Google has brought to light many more forums which some devs are favoring rather than XDA. Too bad, this place used to be the hang out of the 1337. People shouldn't be flamed for asking questions, and it shouldn't be assumed people aren't using the search. We all know of Google. I doubt there are many posts any more where the OP hasn't first used the search. Even secretaries know how to use Google. Saying "USE THE SEARCH!!!" isn't some stroke of dawning brilliance. This place has become so brutal that I'm sure even AFTER using the search and failing some still won't post their questions.
Let me begin by saying that I'm not attacking you or anyone else personally in this reply. My intention is to illustrate the other side of this argument. You see useless members starting flame wars; I see members protecting other users from potentially bricking their devices, teaching them manners, and upholding the sanctity of our developer forums.
petermg said:
Ever notice how these forums are CRAWLING!!!! with the know-it-all put-you-down small-person inferiority-complex type? These are the ones who, even though you used the damn search for three hours before posting a thread, and did not find your answer, they respond to your post with "USE THE SEARCH!!!!!" W T F !!!!
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I can assure you that the majority of the time, the person in which the flame is directed did not use the search feature. If they did, then common sense would dictate that you give the most amount of information relevant to your problem in order for someone else to help. We are not mind readers. If the majority of the problems that are posted about here could have been answered by the simple use of the search feature, and that person did not use it, well, it gets extraordinarily annoying after a time. In any case, if they did search, but didn't provide that bit of information in their post, then you can't get mad at us for not being mind readers.
They flame the hell out of such members and drive away even some devs because they are just selfish a$$hole know-it-alls. And I LOVE how they will FLAME THE HELL out of anyone who posts a question thread in the dev section claiming it's against the rules, when in fact it's NOT!!! There is no WRITTEN rule here that states that (unlike at PPCGEEKS which DOES have such a written rule), they FLAME people on the claim that these people are violating such a sacred rule, which doesn't actually exist, and yet they are somehow exempt from the explicit written rule of not flaming!
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This is an issue which is always in a bit of flux here. You have to understand that this isn't a support website. This website is dedicated to development. As such, developers on this website come first and foremost. If you or anyone else decide to clutter up the development forums, which are provided as a haven for our developers, with inane posts about simple things that could have been answered with the search feature or should have simply been posted in the proper forum, this too gets very old very quickly. I'm not condoning the flaming, but you have to accept that there is just cause for the disdain on this topic.
If I was a mod, I would seriously devote my time to finding these people and BANNING THEM!!! I've seen people, who have serious, time sensitive problems to solve, and post in more than one forum hoping to get a speedy answer, and some BRILLIANT WIZARD comes along and flames them for CROSS POSTING!!! ARE YOU SERIOUS!? If someone is in desperate need of getting their phone fixed they are not going to be persuaded by some a$$h013 KNOW IT ALL wannabe forum HALL MONITOR bossing them! W!, T!, F!,
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First off, as a mod, tracking down these people should not be your primary concern. There are far more pressing matters to attend to than this select group of people. Besides, pointing out the obvious isn't against the rules. Cross posting, however, is against the rules. The bottom line for the time-sensitive posts is that it is a risk you take by flashing a custom ROM, or doing something the manufacturer didn't intend. It comes back around to my point about us not being a support website. If someone has the spare time to get you an answer, then good for you, but it is never something that anyone should expect here.
You know HOW MANY TIMES I've done a search for a problem, found a thread with someone who has the SAME PROBLEM, but the ONLY RESPONSE listed is someone saying "USE THE SEARCH AND DON'T CLUTTER UP THE FORUM!!!! THIS HAS BEEN DISCUSSED!!!!" yet for some reason that is the ONLY DAMN THREAD I can find on it!!!! HOW I *LOVE* finding such HELPFUL THREADS!!!
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More likely than not, you simply need to change your search terms. If you aren't able to find your answer by searching, then make a post about it letting us know what exactly you searched for that garnered no results.
This does two things:
1) It narrows down our search criteria to exclude the terms you have already exhausted.
2) It shows us that you didn't come here just to leach an answer from the community, but also put in some effort at troubleshooting your own issue.
I've read posts by devs who have left or severely LIMITED their work due to people they call "HATERS". Good job. Seriously, yelling at someone who is asking for help is lame and such responses should be deleted and people with such attitudes BANNED!
And how many TIMES do you find someone who posts a question in the DEV section and some EINSTEIN comes along and their ONLY REPLY is "THIS NEEDS TO BE MOVED!! DON'T POST QUESTIONS IN THE DEV SECTION!!!" W T F!!!! These types of people need to be banned for life.
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This happens because most of the senior members here, including myself, feel that anyone with half a brain should be able to tell that questions go in the question and answers fora. They are labeled like that for a reason. If you didn't create something developmental, then there isn't a reason to post a thread in the development fora.
Making people afraid to ask questions hinders growth and due to the lack of it my love for searching and using Google has brought to light many more forums which some devs are favoring rather than XDA. Too bad, this place used to be the hang out of the 1337. People shouldn't be flamed for asking questions, and it shouldn't be assumed people aren't using the search. We all know of Google. I doubt there are many posts any more where the OP hasn't first used the search. Even secretaries know how to use Google. Saying "USE THE SEARCH!!!" isn't some stroke of dawning brilliance. This place has become so brutal that I'm sure even AFTER using the search and failing some still won't post their questions.
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Just because people know about Google doesn't mean they've actually used it. It is far more rare to come across a user asking a question who has done a search first than not.
The problem isn't so much about people asking questions. The problem lies a bit deeper now. Things used to be different here, indeed. I've personally been a registered XDA user for 6 years now. Things were more development focused back in the old WM days. It was normally only those of us who were looking for ways to get more out of our Pocket PCs that would frequent the forum. This mentality you are describing wasn't any different then from what it is today. The only difference is that now that Android has flooded the market that Apple made popular, we have a different set of users who are looking for a different type of development.
When I was a noob here, the flaming for not searching and doing the work myself was what eventually taught me how to find my own answers and not rely on others to support my device. I learned how to search, compose a proper post, and ask for help in a way that showed I wasn't trying to be a leach but had legitimately tried to solve my issue and failed.
The other big difference at the time was the age difference between WM users and the current generation of Android and iOS users. Back then, WM users were generally in their 20s or older. Most of the people using it, such as myself, needed it as a professional portable workstation. We had a more mature mentality towards our precious piece of technology. There were few times where you could get one of these Pocket PCs for under $400, so we valued what we had spent our money on, since insurance claims on them were all but nonexistent at the time. If we did something wrong, then there was a good chance that our expensive gadget would be just another paperweight. Since a fair portion of us needed these devices for a daily job, there was more caution thrown towards modding, flashing, or installing software.
Now, our devices are known as smartphones, and our users are mostly teenagers to whom their device was given by their parents. They don't have the same sense of worth towards their devices that used to be present since they didn't pay anything for it, or paid very little.
These users aren't taught that respect needs to be show if you want to receive it. I know it may seem as though they didn't say anything warranting a flame war, but by not showing other members of this community who donate their time to it enough respect to out line their problem and how they tried to solve it, all it sounds like to us is, "Here, I broke this. You need to fix it for me for free."
I hope that this has shown you the other side of the coin.
There is a difference between other forums and this one. They are user forums and this one is not. It is a developers forum. Made by and for developers.
im also newbie,still learning to theme my rom,applying and make new mod from the tutorial that posted here in developement forum,i read all threads and posts to understand how to make it on my phone,not just asking for help,if you say you are tired reading all threads and posts to find an answer,what about the devs??are'nt they tired of answering same question over and over??say something with you mind open,just an advice
Sent from my LT18i
Some good points made on each side, but the fact is that this is NOT the regular use forum, it's for the "pro" people, so I think it's understandable when they get annoyed with some of the users asking seemingly simple questions.
zelendel said:
There is a difference between other forums and this one. They are user forums and this one is not. It is a developers forum. Made by and for developers.
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xda is for developers and users.
Android78822 said:
xda is for developers and users.
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No, it isn't. That's where the confusion comes from. This is a developer forum that we allow non-developers to be a part of. The catch is that you have to actually participate and be a part of the community to get any level of respect here. We don't appreciate people coming here just to turn us into a support forum. If you want tech support, call your carrier. If you want to be a part of a community, come here.
If you are in urgent need of help I would recommend trying IRC first, it's usually a lot easier to get real time feedback from people on there compared to a forum.
Some of the flaming may be unnecessary, but you have to realize that a large amount of time goes into a lot of the ROMs, kernels, etc. If you're nice enough to share it then you deserve to have a chance for everyone to see it. To have everyone bury their posts just so they can ask a question is inconsiderate, to say the least. Plus the clutter makes it harder for those looking for something to find it.
When I first started lurking here I only needed to see one question in the dev section for me to figure out that was the last place to post one. Sure I was cautious the first time or two I posted there, but you better believe I made sure it fit in with the other posts there before I posted it.
cajunflavoredbob said:
No, it isn't. That's where the confusion comes from. This is a developer forum that we allow non-developers to be a part of. The catch is that you have to actually participate and be a part of the community to get any level of respect here. We don't appreciate people coming here just to turn us into a support forum. If you want tech support, call your carrier. If you want to be a part of a community, come here.
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You. Are. Awesome.
Always a level-headed, thorough, well-thought-out response. Keep it up.
arrrghhh said:
You. Are. Awesome.
Always a level-headed, thorough, well-thought-out response. Keep it up.
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Nah he's a scumbag really...
He just pops in here every now and then to make up for trolling elsewhere...
Sent From My Fingers To Your Face.......
conantroutman said:
Nah he's a scumbag really...
He just pops in here every now and then to make up for trolling elsewhere...
Sent From My Fingers To Your Face.......
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Save your trolling for OT. I'll meet you there later. Lol
I've changed my mind about this very subject so many times that I've lost count. I used to be in the "Search the forum." camp, but then decided that I could be more constructive - "Search the forum and see if you can find any help there. I just used this search term - xxxxxxxxxxxxx - and came up with some answers for you. See if any of them help."
From what I've seen most of the people that are blunt about searching one day are friendly and offer good, helpful advice the next day. Yes, of course there are a few trolls that seem to take pleasure in baiting confrontation, but that's unfortunately the nature of large groups of people. There's always 1!
This community has, by and large, been the most informative website I have ever had the pleasure to take part in. My only advice with regards to this matter would be to learn to take bad attitudes with a pinch of salt, or let the mods know if someone's gone too far. I'm certainly not shy about bringing things to the attention of mods, and I've only been trolled by one of them
Basically, if you see something you don't like then don't rant. Teach by example. It makes the whole place better for us all.
Archer said:
I've changed my mind about this very subject so many times that I've lost count. I used to be in the "Search the forum." camp, but then decided that I could be more constructive - "Search the forum and see if you can find any help there. I just used this search term - xxxxxxxxxxxxx - and came up with some answers for you. See if any of them help."
From what I've seen most of the people that are blunt about searching one day are friendly and offer good, helpful advice the next day. Yes, of course there are a few trolls that seem to take pleasure in baiting confrontation, but that's unfortunately the nature of large groups of people. There's always 1!
This community has, by and large, been the most informative website I have ever had the pleasure to take part in. My only advice with regards to this matter would be to learn to take bad attitudes with a pinch of salt, or let the mods know if someone's gone too far. I'm certainly not shy about bringing things to the attention of mods, and I've only been trolled by one of them
Basically, if you see something you don't like then don't rant. Teach by example. It makes the whole place better for us all.
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I've kind of grown out of the "USE THE SEARCH FEATURE" responses as well. It took me several years, but now I ask questions designed to teach them how they should be posting questions.
When I see a post like "i brookeded my fone. needz help! whAT SHouLd i do?!!!", it generates a response from me along the lines of, "Ok, what did you do to try and fix it yourself? Have you searched for your problem? Did you read the stickies? Did you read any relevant FAQs for that mod/hack/ROM/app?"
It's a bit condescending, but not as insulting as just spamming SEARCH FIRST all the time. This way, they feel a little bit insulted, but at least they know why.
cajunflavoredbob said:
I've kind of grown out of the "USE THE SEARCH FEATURE" responses as well. It took me several years, but now I ask questions designed to teach them how they should be posting questions.
When I see a post like "i brookeded my fone. needz help! whAT SHouLd i do?!!!", it generates a response from me along the lines of, "Ok, what did you do to try and fix it yourself? Have you searched for your problem? Did you read the stickies? Did you read any relevant FAQs for that mod/hack/ROM/app?"
It's a bit condescending, but not as insulting as just spamming SEARCH FIRST all the time. This way, they feel a little bit insulted, but at least they know why.
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Exactly - could not agree more (especially since you were pretty much agreeing with me ) I find myself now showing a newb (not noob) how it should be done, whilst at the same time letting the "SEARCH NOOB" shouters know how they should deal with it.
Given time though, I think most of us realise the futility of shouting at people that demand support. There's one guy in particular I can think of (obviously won't say who), who came on here shouting NOOB and telling people to search and ranting at everything that was even vaguely rantable at, and it was clear that he just enjoyed it. Now, though, after a couple of years on here he's one of the most helpful members I know. He has tons of patience and tons of thanks to show for it. I see him around now and then and we usually say hello, and I have to admit that it's nice to think that maybe showing him how to deal with a newb quietly and calmly may have had some effect. Maybe not, but either way I'm glad he got there eventually.
Either people stay and eventually become more chilled, or they leave in anger or get booted for trolling/swearing/abusing etc..
I have faith in the majority.
Archer said:
Exactly - could not agree more (especially since you were pretty much agreeing with me ) I find myself now showing a newb (not noob) how it should be done, whilst at the same time letting the "SEARCH NOOB" shouters know how they should deal with it.
Given time though, I think most of us realise the futility of shouting at people that demand support. There's one guy in particular I can think of (obviously won't say who), who came on here shouting NOOB and telling people to search and ranting at everything that was even vaguely rantable at, and it was clear that he just enjoyed it. Now, though, after a couple of years on here he's one of the most helpful members I know. He has tons of patience and tons of thanks to show for it. I see him around now and then and we usually say hello, and I have to admit that it's nice to think that maybe showing him how to deal with a newb quietly and calmly may have had some effect. Maybe not, but either way I'm glad he got there eventually.
Either people stay and eventually become more chilled, or they leave in anger or get booted for trolling/swearing/abusing etc..
I have faith in the majority.
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Heheh, you're referring to me, aren't you?
Yea, you just have to find that balance between being insulting and helpful. That way they are less likely to make the same mistake again. It's never a good idea to just hand over the information right away, since that teaches them absolutely nothing. It's like that old proverb saying that you can give a man a fish and feed him for a day, but if you teach him to fish, you can feed him for life.
cajunflavoredbob said:
Heheh, you're referring to me, aren't you?
Yea, you just have to find that balance between being insulting and helpful. That way they are less likely to make the same mistake again. It's never a good idea to just hand over the information right away, since that teaches them absolutely nothing. It's like that old proverb saying that you can give a man a fish and feed him for a day, but if you teach him to fish, you can feed him for life.
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Hahaha nah mate - I wasn't referring to you. You're still a troll
This sort of thing happens all the time in automotive forums, oldsters get super cranky from answering the same questions over and over and new people get mad because they're told to use search literally every time they have a question valid or not. You're probably going to find that this is an issue no matter where you go on the internet.
The only time I've seen this mostly resolved is on a forum where moderation of user behavior is swift, brutal, and pretty impartial, and registration to the forum costs $10. Not likely to work on a forum such as this.
.
To compliment and support what cajunflavoredbob mentioned, please read my signature, you may now understand the nature of XDA:
This is and always will be a site for developers, pure and simple. Without them we are nothing, without them there would be no reason for XDA Developers to exist; we should never ever forget that. Without them this place would not be called XDA-Developers but something else, e.g Mobile Phone User Support Services For Ungrateful Nerds.
XDA is about developing and is for developers. Any user that recognises that will gain the most benefit from this site
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Android78822 said:
xda is for developers and users.
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cajunflavoredbob said:
No, it isn't. That's where the confusion comes from. This is a developer forum that we allow non-developers to be a part of. The catch is that you have to actually participate and be a part of the community to get any level of respect here. We don't appreciate people coming here just to turn us into a support forum. If you want tech support, call your carrier. If you want to be a part of a community, come here.
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Jesus! A quick search would have brought up like 20+ threads just like this one. All of them with the same answer. You could have googled Asshats with tudes and XDA would have been your first answer. Read the rules! Post only when posted at! Never wear white after labor day, and some other stuff that is off topic!!!!
Here is something I don't understand. Yes this site might be for developers, but without users developers would server no purpose so that claim that this isn't for both users and developers seems counter productive. I myself haven't gotten around to making 10+ posts just to justify my rooting knowledge.
Yet the fact remains that without users the developers wouldn't really need to even have a website like this or it would be private which it's clearly not. How many bigger developers actually live off of their user donations?
Just my two cents, but I disagree.
Dear Xda,
My visit here on your forums has been good up until I recently found some of your members like to act like complete pompous arrogant jerks towards people asking for help - example: here - Bottom line was I asked for Help with rooting a phone and what I got was "nobody gives a s*** about you and won't reply unless you tell them exactly what you need help with" even though the title clearly states what I need help with so for future reference, I don't plan on referring anyone to this site due to the amount of people on here that feel entitled to acting like snobs and angsty towards noobs who need/ask for help with something - in fact, I wouldn't recommend to any noobie or person openly willing to understand and comprehend your vast knowledge of the technology behind exploiting a phone and unlocking it for further control - and instead getting a snobbish pie to the face, that's almost as shameful as a student coming to class to learn, and the teacher throwing the book at them for wanting to learn.
So until this changes - I will gladly spread around the net how horrible my experience was here and recommend that anyone wanting to know how to root their phone AVOID xda and go some place else where asking questions because one simply doesn't understand or know is tolerated.
Thanks and so long. It's sure been fun (not really, you've got a pretty big set of set of a**holes on here. I'd rather visit 4chan and be bombarded by trolls than endure snobbish users who cant take a single question and be nice about it.)
alex.ap.pacman said:
Dear Xda,
My visit here on your forums has been good up until I recently found some of your members like to act like complete pompous arrogant jerks towards people asking for help - example: here - Bottom line was I asked for Help with rooting a phone and what I got was "nobody gives a s*** about you and won't reply unless you tell them exactly what you need help with" even though the title clearly states what I need help with so for future reference, I don't plan on referring anyone to this site due to the amount of people on here that feel entitled to acting like snobs and angsty towards noobs who need/ask for help with something - in fact, I wouldn't recommend to any noobie or person openly willing to understand and comprehend your vast knowledge of the technology behind exploiting a phone and unlocking it for further control - and instead getting a snobbish pie to the face, that's almost as shameful as a student coming to class to learn, and the teacher throwing the book at them for wanting to learn.
So until this changes - I will gladly spread around the net how horrible my experience was here and recommend that anyone wanting to know how to root their phone AVOID xda and go some place else where asking questions because one simply doesn't understand or know is tolerated.
Thanks and so long. It's sure been fun (not really, you've got a pretty big set of set of a**holes on here. I'd rather visit 4chan and be bombarded by trolls than endure snobbish users who cant take a single question and be nice about it.)
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If you can pm me I will try to help you with your phone.. Ok
XDA itself are not responsible for how people choose to reply to any questions asked. What the staff here do do though, is follow up on problems like this if you report them.
If you feel any user is being rude/obnoxious, you can report it and explain the situation or you can take it up with that user directly via PM(and not publicly).
Your point of view on this is based on one single user. XDA has just over 4.5 million users and you're disregarding the whole forum due to one person?
If these forums were really that bad, would XDA have the following it does? Of course not. People would leave and choose one of the smaller forums instead.
I can't make you change your mind and to be perfectly honest, I wouldn't even attempt to.
If you change your mind and decide to stick around, then always remember that there are other ways of dealing with such people, instead of storming off.
But if you've made up your mind and you want to leave XDA, then feel free to do so.
See you around (or not, as the case may be).
Sent from Stephen Hawking's rooted wheelchair
KidCarter93 said:
XDA itself are not responsible for how people choose to reply to any questions asked. What the staff here do do though, is follow up on problems like this if you report them.
If you feel any user is being rude/obnoxious, you can report it and explain the situation or you can take it up with that user directly via PM(and not publicly).
Your point of view on this is based on one single user. XDA has just over 4.5 million users and you're disregarding the whole forum due to one person?
If these forums were really that bad, would XDA have the following it does? Of course not. People would leave and choose one of the smaller forums instead.
I can't make you change your mind and to be perfectly honest, I wouldn't even attempt to.
If you change your mind and decide to stick around, then always remember that there are other ways of dealing with such people, instead of storming off.
But if you've made up your mind and you want to leave XDA, then feel free to do so.
See you around (or not, as the case may be).
Sent from Stephen Hawking's rooted wheelchair
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It's not like this has been my first encounter with picky, xda members, and frankly if some dev or user cant take that noob has a question then why have a forum for "help"? Its upsetting because this is a widespread issue - people getting upset because noobs ask questions.
ronnie498 said:
If you can pm me I will try to you with your phone..
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Thank you kind sir, I will indeed take you up on that when i have the time - currently moving the next few days.
alex.ap.pacman said:
It's not like this has been my first encounter with picky, xda members, and frankly if some dev or user cant take that noob has a question then why have a forum for "help"? Its upsetting because this is a widespread issue - people getting upset because noobs ask questions.
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I can totally understand that, but we were all noobs at one point or another. Even now, I have noob moments from time to time.
But a lot of people around XDA will get annoyed by new users for the simple fact that the majority of the time, they won't search for an answer. They'll simply post a thread wherever they can and expect an answer to be handed to them.
Hence why we suggest that people spend the time to read the stickied threads in the 'About xda', 'General', and their device specific forums.
These stickies will include most of the information a user may need about there device or about XDA in general.
If after reading them and searching, if an answer has still not been found then create a thread and let people know exactly what you've done to find an answer. If other users can tell you actually have searched, then they'll be more willing to help you.
If any of that seemed condescending, I apologize, but I'm not aware of what knowledge you have regarding these forums.
Sent from Stephen Hawking's rooted wheelchair
Are you serious you posted a question, got smart with the first person who responded and now your complaining none will help. Sorry to not be constructive help but being the "noob" you say you are, I would drop the attitude if you expect much help in the future. Most will tell you to read first because all your questions have been asked and answered before. Your device is not new and xda has a wealth of information on it. All you have to do is your homework and read.
my advise to you is to lose the attitude, be patient and
read, read, read
Edit.
I can only assume on the actual model of your gs2 because of lack of info but
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?p=22904907 this only took a few seconds to find
Tapped from my e4gt blazing with the tweaked blu kuban V0.1.3
After reading the post you made to trigger this, it appears to me that you expected XDA to work like an IRC channel where you would essentially be having a near real time conversation with a support tech. As you are no doubt aware now, it doesn't work like that. XDA members are spread around the world and it may take a few hours for someone to reply. It is best to give all important details to get the best answers.
BTW, if you are going to "quote" someone as you did in the first post, it is advisable to put exactly what they did say within the quotes rather than paraphrase as you did.
"nobody gives a s*** about you and won't reply unless you tell them exactly what you need help with"
does not equal
"No body will reply if you dont say what you want htere are a billion things you can do so tell what the problem is"
See the difference?
Personally, the thread which the OP linked to, i think there the members HAVE been harsh on him. They could've told him to search and advised him to read the sticky topics, maybe scolded a bit, but they've just not done that. They've just got into a fight with him.
Sent from my GT-S5360 using Tapatalk 2
anasdcool71 said:
Personally, the thread which the OP linked to, i think there the members HAVE been harsh on him. They could've told him to search and advised him to read the sticky topics, maybe scolded a bit, but they've just not done that. They've just got into a fight with him.
Sent from my GT-S5360 using Tapatalk 2
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Hmmm, I guess there are a lot of cultural differences, but I read those comments and I only see one that "might" rise to the level of harsh and none that rise to the level of "fight". Compared to what I have seen in this type of situation before, those comments are pretty much average.
I don't see an issue.
Local knowledge of the forum by reading would show you need to know more about the phone than just the software version.
Reading past examples would probably show this.
Searching will also usually reveal a working root method stickied on the development forum
alex.ap.pacman said:
Dear Xda,
My visit here on your forums has been good up until I recently found some of your members like to act like complete pompous arrogant jerks towards people asking for help - example: here - Bottom line was I asked for Help with rooting a phone and what I got was "nobody gives a s*** about you and won't reply unless you tell them exactly what you need help with" even though the title clearly states what I need help with so for future reference, I don't plan on referring anyone to this site due to the amount of people on here that feel entitled to acting like snobs and angsty towards noobs who need/ask for help with something - in fact, I wouldn't recommend to any noobie or person openly willing to understand and comprehend your vast knowledge of the technology behind exploiting a phone and unlocking it for further control - and instead getting a snobbish pie to the face, that's almost as shameful as a student coming to class to learn, and the teacher throwing the book at them for wanting to learn.
So until this changes - I will gladly spread around the net how horrible my experience was here and recommend that anyone wanting to know how to root their phone AVOID xda and go some place else where asking questions because one simply doesn't understand or know is tolerated.
Thanks and so long. It's sure been fun (not really, you've got a pretty big set of set of a**holes on here. I'd rather visit 4chan and be bombarded by trolls than endure snobbish users who cant take a single question and be nice about it.)
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
alex.ap.pacman said:
It's not like this has been my first encounter with picky, xda members, and frankly if some dev or user cant take that noob has a question then why have a forum for "help"? Its upsetting because this is a widespread issue - people getting upset because noobs ask questions.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Honestly, you got what was coming to you and frankly you deserved it. Judging by the second quote here I can tell that you really don't understand the purpose of XDA and as such losing you really won't be a loss. You seem also to be a generally unpleasant person by the way you intentionally misquoted the people in your thread, and the fact that you expected this to be some sort of help service. You didn't search before posting (I'm sure there are thousands of guides out there) and you definitely didn't provide enough information. You say 'I need help with rooting' - well what specific part of the process? And if you just want a guide, then why not follow an already existing one? If you're following an already existing guide and the OP is open to questions, why not just ask there rather than creating a new thread? One more thing you didn't account for before replying like a douche to the person who answered to is the fact that he's from Ghana and the likelihood is that English is not his primary language. Google translate never works well.
One way i can understand the OP's frustration with the way some members respond to newcomers. But you will not win any sympathy with the way you have responded, specially with the wording in this thread regarding how you expect XDA to serve you. I am all for helping people and getting them started in there android journey. But at the same time i am not happy to help someone only for them to keep asking constant questions specially after i helped them out and pointing them to were to read.
and another thing. rather than complaining in a thread were basically you are using foul language you could of just reported any issues you faced.
anyways hope you change your mind about XDA and give this place a chance cause once you get started you will get addicted to it. all the best
and no offense checking your date since you started here it seems that you have been here a while. so for someone who has been here a while but not posted much i would still have expected you to realize by now how XDA works....anyways if you need any hand with anything just let me know via PM and i see if i can help you out with any issues you may have
I agree with the others. You really overreacted and seem to have an attitude. There was nothing wrong with the post your linked to and like someone else said, it was wrong to paraphrase it the way you did. It was not the least bit harsh. The other day in the Samsung Galaxy Tab 10.1 section someone told me to "shut up and f*** off". Now that's harsh. The response you got? Not at all. He was trying to tell you you need to provide more details that's all.
Alright, i am one of those people that seem to get on your nerves.
I'll tell you why, because there is a big and clear search button on your face in every page, you learned about it when registering and watching the registration video, and still refused to use it.
You asked a question that 2 million people asked before you, and still want members to waste their time and answer you AGAIN.
Use the search button = be happy.
Until then, don't expect everyone to be nice.
G L Reply
You never know. Each forum has its own set of good members, bad members, and downright annoying ones. If your device's forum has an excess of "downright annoying", there's not a whole lot you can do beside a) using a different website or b) crossing your fingers that you'll never have device specific questions.
It almost creates a whole new dimension on "device buying factors" :laugh:. You might wind up with a device whose XDA DEVELOPERS subforum is full of jerks. Thankfully, I got my questions answered before they tried to ban my account because they didn't like me, lol.
It's a tough spot to be in, and there's not a whole lot of advice I can give you on this other than "Good Luck".
- 2B
Unfortunately on the Internets, people can be jerks. The best thin you can do is ignore trolls and try to do as much research on your own as you can so that you sound like you've tried before asking for help. Nothing seems to bate a troll more than asking (what they consider to be) stupid/noob questions. I'm not saying it's right, just saying you can help avoid it yourself since you can't control other people.
Sorry you had a bad experience, but flaming the board to others essentially badmouths an entire community based on a small group's actions.
To the OP I understand completely and like someone said, people normally will live in different time zones. With that said it will usually take hours to respond with a answer..
For my nexus root, I asked questions before hand to Tiny* a great kernel dev who helped the droid incredible community. He had a nexus. Although his into was vague I went to the nexus forums and went to the toolkit/root area "Mskip" and asked some questions, they weren't actually answered and left me with the reaction as "okay, this community is actually stuck up".
So then from there I searched various YouTube videos and eventually found out using a toolkit is bad, I was about to use it. So I researched some more and eventually found a steady great adb guide.
I rooted without hassle and astonished after rooting and seeing some comments to others wanting to root. J
Just answer his question and don't be a jerk.. remember you were once in his shoes at one time. Each person wanting root I recommend adb root and give them the guide.
There is no reason to act snotty to others wanting help.
There is even a better way to help others "Team viewer" as this will help anyone not familiar with rooting or just don't know what to do.
Sent from my Galaxy Nexus using Tapatalk 2
Nope. Haven't Seen That.
mf2112 said:
Hmmm, I guess there are a lot of cultural differences, but I read those comments and I only see one that "might" rise to the level of harsh and none that rise to the level of "fight". Compared to what I have seen in this type of situation before, those comments are pretty much average.
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As a long-time troll of the site, I can honestly say that XDA is one of the most n00b-friendly forums out there. The technical information is easy to find. It's updated frequently, and there's a very supportive and vibrant community here that adds very real value to the technology we all use.
The site DOES require you to actually read and follow threads to get the information you want. That's a good thing, right? After all, we're all here to learn and the best way to do that is to be personally engaged in the process.
I see Devs and other forum members regularly direct people to useful threads or other site links to get them the information they're looking for. I've very rarely seen a flame from anyone on the site and if it does happen it's generally warranted. You can only answer the same "how do I get teh rootz" so often before someone gets set on fire.
The mods do set expectations for community users here. They make to read before you post. They only let new folks post in certain areas until they understand how the site works. I really wish more sites were like this.
If a user "gets it" and becomes a viable community member for this site they're going to get a great experience, learn some really cool stuff, and meet some really brilliant people.
khruska said:
As a long-time troll of the site, I can honestly say that XDA is one of the most n00b-friendly forums out there. The technical information is easy to find. It's updated frequently, and there's a very supportive and vibrant community here that adds very real value to the technology we all use.
The site DOES require you to actually read and follow threads to get the information you want. That's a good thing, right? After all, we're all here to learn and the best way to do that is to be personally engaged in the process.
I see Devs and other forum members regularly direct people to useful threads or other site links to get them the information they're looking for. I've very rarely seen a flame from anyone on the site and if it does happen it's generally warranted. You can only answer the same "how do I get teh rootz" so often before someone gets set on fire.
The mods do set expectations for community users here. They make to read before you post. They only let new folks post in certain areas until they understand how the site works. I really wish more sites were like this.
If a user "gets it" and becomes a viable community member for this site they're going to get a great experience, learn some really cool stuff, and meet some really brilliant people.
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+1
You can't be as noob as i was when i first joined. I knew literally nothing about android. Big diff from some of the noobs now? I joined xda to LEARN. Now i at least know java (which is a start). I can't make a rom from source (yet) but i'm getting there (still a long way though). Problem is a lot of new members join to ask questions that's been answered a dozen times before... and that's sad.
I do try to help out when i can, but lately i find myself reporting threads than actually answering the op's questions...
It's really not that hard to search (unless you'e on the app - if you are then you're probably screwed ).
Sent from my rooted tomato using xda app