No Mango update for 1st gen devices? - Windows Phone 7 General

Engadget posted the latest spec requirements for WP7 devices and some minimum requirements are higher than the 1st gen WP7 devices specs.
What does it mean? No Mango update for 1st gen devices?
That would be so depressing, I don't have the money to buy a new phone come 2012. I JUST bought my current device.
http://www.engadget.com/2011/04/14/microsofts-latest-wp7-chassis-spec-includes-second-gen-snapdrag/

I highly doubt they would do this as it would be a massive slap in the face to the initial supporters

Strider88 said:
Engadget posted the latest spec requirements for WP7 devices and some minimum requirements are higher than the 1st gen WP7 devices specs.
What does it mean? No Mango update for 1st gen devices?
That would be so depressing, I don't have the money to buy a new phone come 2012. I JUST bought my current device.
http://www.engadget.com/2011/04/14/microsofts-latest-wp7-chassis-spec-includes-second-gen-snapdrag/
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No, these are just requirements for the devices pre-installed with Mango. First-gen devices will definitely get Mango. Otherwise, MS is going to lose a lot of sales!

All devices get Mango, confirmed again yesterday at MIX.
Sent from my Omnia 7 using XDA Windows Phone 7 App

Thanks guys! that's reassuring...

Those are specs for 2nd generation WP7 phones, not for update.

This is why I like this "rule with an iron fist" strategy of Windows Phone with respect to phone hardware.
All the first gen devices will get Mango update. All the first gen specs were pretty much the same so you know if an HTC HD7 can run it, so can a Trophy. once they preserve this generation iteration (gen 1 = ver one snapdragon, gen 2 = ver two snapdragon) it will be very easy to know if you can run the newest OS in the future based on your generation not on your handset maker.

Blade0rz said:
First-gen devices will definitely get Mango.
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Famous last words. There should be a disclaimer "unless you're on the AT&T network."

How are those specs higher? I'm pretty sure this is just a bump mainly for Qualcomms production purposes, as they've lowered the speed rating, however, the first gen chips aren't that far behind tbh...

FiyaFleye said:
How are those specs higher? I'm pretty sure this is just a bump mainly for Qualcomms production purposes, as they've lowered the speed rating, however, the first gen chips aren't that far behind tbh...
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Specs ARE higher.
The 2nd gen 800MHz CPU performs on par with todays 1st gen 1GHz CPU. The 2nd gen 1GHz CPU performs even better. There isn't much of a difference though, the CPU is hardly taxed on WP7 devices anyway. The HUGE improvement will come from the fact these SoCs include the Adreno 205 GPU which is massively faster than the 1st gen Adreno 200.
Add to this that the 2nd gen SoC's are 45nm rather than 65nm which means they use less battery and run cooler.

nathantw said:
Famous last words. There should be a disclaimer "unless you're on the AT&T network."
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Unbranded and updated

And what about the new language support. Will this be included also in the Mango update for 1st gen WP7 devices. In my case, I bought a HTC Trophy 7 Vodafone branded version. So after the Mango update i would like to enable the Dutch language on my Trophy. Is this possible guys?

nick.venema said:
And what about the new language support. Will this be included also in the Mango update for 1st gen WP7 devices. In my case, I bought a HTC Trophy 7 Vodafone branded version. So after the Mango update i would like to enable the Dutch language on my Trophy. Is this possible guys?
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There will be no limitations at all, every phone will run Mango, new and old. That includes all features of mango including language packs etc.

brummiesteven said:
There will be no limitations at all, every phone will run Mango, new and old. That includes all features of mango including language packs etc.
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I hope you're right because others speculate that this would'nt be the case. Has something to do with license from manufacter and Microsoft or so.... Let's hope Microsoft wil cover this in a smart way.

emigrating said:
Specs ARE higher.
The 2nd gen 800MHz CPU performs on par with todays 1st gen 1GHz CPU. The 2nd gen 1GHz CPU performs even better. There isn't much of a difference though, the CPU is hardly taxed on WP7 devices anyway. The HUGE improvement will come from the fact these SoCs include the Adreno 205 GPU which is massively faster than the 1st gen Adreno 200.
Add to this that the 2nd gen SoC's are 45nm rather than 65nm which means they use less battery and run cooler.
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Click to collapse
How does that work? How is 800MHz faster then the 1GHz?
Sent using XDA Windows Phone 7 App

I can agree with you about the GPU, but it isn't this outrageous upgrade... I honestly see this as first Gen snapdeagons not being produced for Mcrosoft...
Sent from my HD7 using Board Express

airwa1kin7 said:
How does that work? How is 800MHz faster then the 1GHz?
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I think MSM7X30 are with 2nd generation Scorpion CPU kernel while our current QSD8X50 are with 1st generation scorpion (Correct me if wrong). There might be a efficiency increase.
Anyway, 65nm->45nm and Adreno 200 -> 205 will help.

I was expecting a msm8660 and adreno 220. I don't see a big improveme unless I'm missing something.
Sent from my LG-E900h using XDA Windows Phone 7 App

airwa1kin7 said:
How does that work? How is 800MHz faster then the 1GHz?
Sent using XDA Windows Phone 7 App
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The same as how a i5 @ 2ghz is faster than a P4 @ 3ghz

FiyaFleye said:
I can agree with you about the GPU, but it isn't this outrageous upgrade...
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True, it's not a huge leap in performance. But I see this as a good thing for three reasons;
1. We don't actually need a dual-core 1.5GHz CPU. Our phones are fast enough as is. Sure, It'd be nice to have something high-end, but it's not needed and brings me to
2. Using slightly older tech (i.e. 2nd gen rather then 3rd gen) keeps prices in check. This is good as the average consumer can easily afford (and justify buying) a WP7 device. And
3. this means older devices will still be able to run Mango (or, more so, apps written specifically for ManGo) without performance issues. Remember how iOS4 initially performed on the early iPhones (i.e. 3G and older)?
They seem to actually have a strategy behind running on middle of the road hardware and I for one think it's great. What I would like to see is more optional hardware though, FFC, NFC, Gyro etc should all be supported (and I have a feeling they all will be) by the OS but optional to let OEMs differentiate themselves in the market.
At first I thought the inclusion of an optional Gyro was madness, but after seeing a MIX11 session it all fell into place - they [MS] have constructed the API so that you don't call the Gyro directly, rather you call a "movement" API which will give you the information you require. This means that devices without a Gyro will still give you, the developer, the same datastream to work with, just with a lower "resolution" than on devices with a Gyro. The same could be applied to other functionality which in the end means there will be no fragmentation - however having devices running on anything from a 800GHz single-core to a 1.5GHz dual-core processor would mean games [especially] would run great on some devices and not at all on others.

Related

Graphics Processor

Does the new hardware call for a graphics processor?
I know that Steve Jobs never sells a piece of hardware without a dedicated graphics processor, such as in the iPhone (PowerVR MBX-Lite graphics processor), or the Macbook (NVIDIA GeForce 9600M GT).
In windows machines, it is always an after-thought.
Snapdragon includes a perfectly reasonable graphics chip.
It just needs to be utilized with good drivers.
Shasarak said:
Snapdragon includes a perfectly reasonable graphics chip.
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so no dedicated graphics processor?
Looks like iphone will still rule.
chiks19018 said:
so no dedicated graphics processor?
Looks like iphone will still rule.
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Like everything else, we'll have to wait for MIX. But with their massive push into gaming and focus on XNA, I have no doubt that the graphics capability will be at least as good as if not light years ahead of iPhone.
RustyGrom said:
Like everything else, we'll have to wait for MIX. But with their massive push into gaming and focus on XNA, I have no doubt that the graphics capability will be at least as good as if not light years ahead of iPhone.
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I sure do hope. But history says otherwise. MS never pushed for a graphics card with any of it's products as a "required" item. If the same happens here and Apple develops a new iphone 4gs with an even more powerful processor and as usual combine a dedicated graphics processor, then WP7 will be in the same boat as now.
chiks19018 said:
I sure do hope. But history says otherwise. MS never pushed for a graphics card with any of it's products as a "required" item. If the same happens here and Apple develops a new iphone 4gs with an even more powerful processor and as usual combine a dedicated graphics processor, then WP7 will be in the same boat as now.
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What part of WP7 is like WM6? It's entirely different. Microsoft had practically no hardware requirements before, now they're being super strict. Gaming is a huge portion of their focus. We should know more next week at GDC. Besides, Snapdragon includes full 3d acceleration. There's no need for a discrete graphics chip as far as I'm aware.
Shasarak said:
Snapdragon includes a perfectly reasonable graphics chip.
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chiks19018 said:
so no dedicated graphics processor?
Looks like iphone will still rule.
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Click to collapse
What?! No, I said Snapdragon includes a perfectly reasonable graphics chip. How on Earth did you interpret that as meaning the exact opposite of what I said???
Snapdragon is not just a CPU. Snapdragon is a chipset, an entire mobile phone platform that consists of several separate chips. One of them is the CPU. Another of them is a graphics chip (or, if you prefer to phrase it that way, a "dedicated graphics processor") made by ATI/AMD. Honestly, have you never seen the Electopia demo running on a Snapdragon phone? The graphics are really quite impressive.
Yes, the Snapdragon GPU is somewhat less powerful than the one in the iPhone 3GS, but it's not an order of magnitude difference, and the faster CPU in Snapdragon (coupled with improved NEON instructions) somewhat compensates. Certainly the Snapdragon GPU is way more powerful than the one included with MSM72xx, and even that can run Xtrakt quite happily; it's miles ahead of the one in the iPhone 3G, too.
Shasarak said:
What?! No, I said Snapdragon includes a perfectly reasonable graphics chip. How on Earth did you interpret that as meaning the exact opposite of what I said???
Snapdragon is not just a CPU. Snapdragon is a chipset, an entire mobile phone platform that consists of several separate chips. One of them is the CPU. Another of them is a graphics chip (or, if you prefer to phrase it that way, a "dedicated graphics processor") made by ATI/AMD. Honestly, have you never seen the Electopia demo running on a Snapdragon phone? The graphics are really quite impressive.
Yes, the Snapdragon GPU is somewhat less powerful than the one in the iPhone 3GS, but it's not an order of magnitude difference, and the faster CPU in Snapdragon (coupled with improved NEON instructions) somewhat compensates. Certainly the Snapdragon GPU is way more powerful than the one included with MSM72xx, and even that can run Xtrakt quite happily; it's miles ahead of the one in the iPhone 3G, too.
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And thats for qsd8250.
Newer generation of snapdragon(msm8xxx and dual core QSD8672) has 4x greater performance than the snapdragon1. Don't know how's msm7x30 graphics performance. Besides we don't know which snapdragon chip will be used in windows phones.
It could either be qsd8650a which is 30% faster than the one used in HD2 or it could be the new msm7x30 or it could even be the high end msm8xxx which supports 1,3Ghz CPU, 1080p video and 4x faster GPU - hopefully it won't be qsd8250 which is manufactured at 65nm but something newer at 45nm. Power efficiency is very important, besides those newer chips just like tegra should be able to shutdown unused parts to minimize power consumption.
Out of curiosity - What's stopping WP7s manufacturers from using Tegra chips? I know Microsoft is working closely with Qualcomm, but does that automatically disqualify Nvidia as a supplier?
Regards
Silverdragondk said:
Out of curiosity - What's stopping WP7s manufacturers from using Tegra chips? I know Microsoft is working closely with Qualcomm, but does that automatically disqualify Nvidia as a supplier?
Regards
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Well MS clearly stated that qualcomm is first chip supplier for Windows Phones. Probably in the future they will allow tegra, omap and probably samsung chips too.
For now we are stuck with snapdragon which isn't that bad IMO.
Silverdragondk said:
Out of curiosity - What's stopping WP7s manufacturers from using Tegra chips? I know Microsoft is working closely with Qualcomm, but does that automatically disqualify Nvidia as a supplier?
Regards
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Drivers. MS isn't giving the OEMs as much control over the lower level OS and is developing all of the drivers themselves. No more will we have the problem of HTC deciding that 3d drivers aren't needed.
Wishmaster89 said:
And thats for qsd8250.
Newer generation of snapdragon(msm8xxx and dual core QSD8672) has 4x greater performance than the snapdragon1. Don't know how's msm7x30 graphics performance. Besides we don't know which snapdragon chip will be used in windows phones.
It could either be qsd8650a which is 30% faster than the one used in HD2 or it could be the new msm7x30 or it could even be the high end msm8xxx which supports 1,3Ghz CPU, 1080p video and 4x faster GPU - hopefully it won't be qsd8250 which is manufactured at 65nm but something newer at 45nm. Power efficiency is very important, besides those newer chips just like tegra should be able to shutdown unused parts to minimize power consumption.
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It will be sick if they annouce the msm8xxx being required and that's why HD2 isn't supported. I'd take that trade off.
Wishmaster89 said:
And thats for qsd8250.
Newer generation of snapdragon(msm8xxx and dual core QSD8672) has 4x greater performance than the snapdragon1. Don't know how's msm7x30 graphics performance. Besides we don't know which snapdragon chip will be used in windows phones.
It could either be qsd8650a which is 30% faster than the one used in HD2 or it could be the new msm7x30 or it could even be the high end msm8xxx which supports 1,3Ghz CPU, 1080p video and 4x faster GPU - hopefully it won't be qsd8250 which is manufactured at 65nm but something newer at 45nm. Power efficiency is very important, besides those newer chips just like tegra should be able to shutdown unused parts to minimize power consumption.
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Not all Snapdragon variants are actually intended to be used in phones. Most of the more powerful ones will only ever end up in netbooks and devices like that.
Wishmaster89 said:
Well MS clearly stated that qualcomm is first chip supplier for Windows Phones. Probably in the future they will allow tegra, omap and probably samsung chips too.
For now we are stuck with snapdragon which isn't that bad IMO.
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The decision to exclude Samsung processors surprised me a bit. Samsung's "Hummingbird" CPU is easily the equal of the current generation Snapdragon, and Samsung has been a major supporter of Windows Mobile in the past. I guess MS wanted to limit itself to writing drivers for just one platform - allowing Samsung or OMAP processors would mean also allowing other GPUs, other GPS and Bluetooth hardware, etc.
Shasarak said:
The decision to exclude Samsung processors surprised me a bit. Samsung's "Hummingbird" CPU is easily the equal of the current generation Snapdragon, and Samsung has been a major supporter of Windows Mobile in the past. I guess MS wanted to limit itself to writing drivers for just one platform - allowing Samsung or OMAP processors would mean also allowing other GPUs, other GPS and Bluetooth hardware, etc.
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It's always sounded to me like they just picked one to launch with and will support others going forward. Writing drivers and testing other platforms at this point doesn't really give a good bang for the buck.
We should know on the 10th (the first GDC windows phone sessions). I would think the graphics capability would be something they would share there. But then again, they've shown an astounding ability to just say "wait for MIX" so far so they very well could keep that up.
Developing Games for Windows Phone 7 Series
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Speaker: Tomas Vykruta & Shawn Hargreaves
Time: 2:30-3:30pm
Windows Phone 7 Series is a highly capable platform for game development. This talk covers 3D game development on Windows Phone 7 Series with an emphasis on the unique characteristics of the platform. The talk also focuses on optimizing high-performance games for the platform, to help developers squeeze out every last drop of performance.
Development and Debugging Tools for Windows Phone 7 Series
Speaker: Cullen Waters
Time: 3:45pm-4:45pm
This talk discusses the basic tools available to game developers on Windows Phone 7 Series, including debugging, emulation, and performance tools. The talk places special emphasis on best practices for performance and profiling tools that can be used to optimize games for Windows Phone 7 Series.
Bringing the Best of Xbox LIVE to Windows Phone 7 Series
Speaker: Adam Schaeffer
Time: 5:00-6:00pm
The Xbox LIVE service is going mobile! With Windows Phone 7 Series, core features such as Achievements, Leaderboards, and game invites will be available to games on Windows Phone 7 Series devices. This talk covers the basics of the services available and how they can be used to enable core Xbox LIVE functionality in games. In addition, this talk will present best practices for connecting Windows Phone 7 Series games to back-end servers.
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I imagine that they want WP7 to be as smooth and hitch-free as possible to start out with. That means not allowing for any unknown variables such as different hardware, drivers, software.
It's the same for Iphone or any of the console game machines. It's one piece of hardware that is always the same making it easier to plan things for and develop things for. Which ends up meaning a higher perception of quality from the consumers due to lack of glitches and crashes.
Hence Apple's commercials saying how often PCs crash and stuff. They crash because PCs have way more variables as far as hardware and drivers than Macs have making many more incompatibilities.
Microsoft will probably allow other hardware once WP7 has a good name going in the consumers eyes.
Shasarak said:
Not all Snapdragon variants are actually intended to be used in phones. Most of the more powerful ones will only ever end up in netbooks and devices like that.
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You're right. QSD8672 is targeted at smartbooks but msm8xxx is designed to power both smarphones and smartbooks. Besides OMAP4 and tegra2 are powerful but still we can expect smartphones based on those platforms next year.
The decision to exclude Samsung processors surprised me a bit. Samsung's "Hummingbird" CPU is easily the equal of the current generation Snapdragon, and Samsung has been a major supporter of Windows Mobile in the past. I guess MS wanted to limit itself to writing drivers for just one platform - allowing Samsung or OMAP processors would mean also allowing other GPUs, other GPS and Bluetooth hardware, etc.
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I think so too. More hardware platforms mean more work to do. So I think that support for other hardware platforms will come after they'll finish V1 of WP7 - this way they will just have to port complete full OS from snapdragon to other platform.
Shasarak said:
What?! No, I said Snapdragon includes a perfectly reasonable graphics chip. How on Earth did you interpret that as meaning the exact opposite of what I said???
Snapdragon is not just a CPU. Snapdragon is a chipset, an entire mobile phone platform that consists of several separate chips. One of them is the CPU. Another of them is a graphics chip (or, if you prefer to phrase it that way, a "dedicated graphics processor") made by ATI/AMD. Honestly, have you never seen the Electopia demo running on a Snapdragon phone? The graphics are really quite impressive.
Yes, the Snapdragon GPU is somewhat less powerful than the one in the iPhone 3GS, but it's not an order of magnitude difference, and the faster CPU in Snapdragon (coupled with improved NEON instructions) somewhat compensates. Certainly the Snapdragon GPU is way more powerful than the one included with MSM72xx, and even that can run Xtrakt quite happily; it's miles ahead of the one in the iPhone 3G, too.
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my bad. I thought snapdragon is a processor.

[LEAK/INFO] Found something interesting about HTC HD7 on on the HTC RMA

Commercial name: HTC Trophy (HTC 7)
Codename: Spark
Specifications:
WVGA screen
8-Megapixel camera
1GHz Snapdragon processor (QSD8250)
3G Network: HSDPA 900 / 2100
Hope it's interesting
Regards,
B
I have to confess, unless you're talking about the 8 MP camera, I don't see anything that was unknown from earlier leaks. Is that what you're referring to, or am I missing something obvious?
Also, I'd recommend taking down the second image. The name of the user logged in isn't blocked in that screenshot.
Cheers,
--VelJharig
Any more part numbers/models listed? Anything showing US models?
VelJharig said:
I have to confess, unless you're talking about the 8 MP camera, I don't see anything that was unknown from earlier leaks. Is that what you're referring to, or am I missing something obvious?
Also, I'd recommend taking down the second image. The name of the user logged in isn't blocked in that screenshot.
Cheers,
--VelJharig
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Click to collapse
Thanks for the head up
RustyGrom said:
Any more part numbers/models listed? Anything showing US models?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I only have access to the European portal atm.
Can't believe HTC uses the Q8250 which is now almost 100% confirmed.
Byebye HTC, never liked your phones anyway, they are crappy as phones. Pooooooooooor speakers, pooooooooor batterylife, poooooooooooooooor cameras, pooooooooooor reception.
All above is right compared to other brands, the 4 most important things in a phone aswell, bad bad.
This certainly doesn't look like they are shaping up
Edit: Either way, good find OP
I, for one, don't care what chip is in my phone as long as the outcome is good. From everything we've seen, the performance, including 3D Games, is pretty damn good.
RustyGrom said:
I, for one, don't care what chip is in my phone as long as the outcome is good. From everything we've seen, the performance, including 3D Games, is pretty damn good.
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But could have been better, as well as:
*Cheaper
*More energy efficient
*Newer
Why accept old "crap" in extremely expensive premium devices?
Mr.Sir said:
Can't believe HTC uses the Q8250 which is now almost 100% confirmed.
Byebye HTC, never liked your phones anyway, they are crappy as phones. Pooooooooooor speakers, pooooooooor batterylife, poooooooooooooooor cameras, pooooooooooor reception.
All above is right compared to other brands, the 4 most important things in a phone aswell, bad bad.
This certainly doesn't look like they are shaping up
Edit: Either way, good find OP
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I don't don't seem to understand why your angry at HTC and MS for using the Q8250 processor.
Think about it this way, That processor is the minimum hardware requirement for WP7, so every application and game will be optimized for all devices and developers can take full advantage of the hardware.
Now lets talk about Android fragmentation. Even if you get a Android device with a 2ghz processor and Froyo the applications won't take full advantage of you hardware. Why is that? Because there are Froyo devices on the market with 528mhz and 600mhz qualcomm processors.
Mr.Sir said:
But could have been better, as well as:
*Cheaper
*More energy efficient
*Newer
Why accept old "crap" in extremely expensive premium devices?
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Click to collapse
Because it's not "ancient" or "crap" and will allow for devices to be cheaper than they otherwise would be.
Mr.Sir said:
But could have been better, as well as:
*Cheaper
*More energy efficient
*Newer
Why accept old "crap" in extremely expensive premium devices?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I also can't understand what is happening? It's one thing if HTC would have gone mad or something, but all leaks is pointing towards the QSD8250.
If you don't want a cheaper phone that preforms better and have a better battery time, it's up to you, but I want exactly that!
I hate to state the obvious but doesn't EVERY first gen wp7 device have the same qualcomm processor? strict hardware requirements anyone?
I mean if you knock htc for doing that you may as well knock everyone else for doing it. Fact is that's what microsoft specified for the first crop of devices
domineus said:
I hate to state the obvious but doesn't EVERY first gen wp7 device have the same qualcomm processor? strict hardware requirements anyone?
I mean if you knock htc for doing that you may as well knock everyone else for doing it. Fact is that's what microsoft specified for the first crop of devices
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Do you have a link? We're just complaining that all the leaks are leading to the first gen Qualcomm processor. You know, the one that was in the Toshiba TG-01 back in June 09, with the lacklustre Adreno 200 GPU. If it's the newer snapdragons with the Adreno205 GPU, then that'd be ALOT more acceptable for a current generation device.
In saying that, the Harvest game demo looks hot, but personally, i find it hard to believe that the Adreno200 is doing such good eye candy. I'd like to be proven wrong.
I'm still crossing my fingers that Samsung will have a hummingbird/SGX540 in theirs.
I just want to know what people are referencing to make them think the 8650 is cheaper than the 8250? I'm not buying that.
RustyGrom said:
I just want to know what people are referencing to make them think the 8650 is cheaper than the 8250? I'm not buying that.
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Dont know about cheaper, but it should be abit faster, and less power hungry giving better battery life, due to it being 45nm rather than 65nm. The real breaker is the GPU really. The Adreno 200 on the QSD8250 is like 1/3 the speed of the SGX540.
There are still rumours about that WP7 devices might have the QSD8250A processor @ 1.3ghz, so theres still hope.
Here's a list of Snapdragon CPU's
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Snapdragon_(processor)
Cruzer1 said:
Dont know about cheaper, but it should be abit faster, and less power hungry giving better battery life, due to it being 45nm rather than 65nm. The real breaker is the GPU really. The Adreno 200 on the QSD8250 is like 1/3 the speed of the SGX540.
There are still rumours about that WP7 devices might have the QSD8250A processor @ 1.3ghz, so theres still hope.
Here's a list of Snapdragon CPU's
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Snapdragon_(processor)
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Click to collapse
Well I get that but people are claiming that it's cheaper as well which seems highly unlikely to me. Maybe over time but not yet.
45nm parts are cheaper to make since they can fit more of them on a single wafer. I have no idea if they are sold cheaper or not to manufacturers but they are cheaper to make.
Op thanks for the look. You still need to remove the second pic as there is no information that isn't in the first except who is logged in.
RustyGrom said:
Because it's not "ancient" or "crap" and will allow for devices to be cheaper than they otherwise would be.
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I believe the 8255 is cheaper, because it's manufactured on a 45nm process instead of the 65nm. That means more chips per waffer = lower prices.
krjcook said:
I don't don't seem to understand why your angry at HTC and MS for using the Q8250 processor.
Think about it this way, That processor is the minimum hardware requirement for WP7, so every application and game will be optimized for all devices and developers can take full advantage of the hardware.
Now lets talk about Android fragmentation. Even if you get a Android device with a 2ghz processor and Froyo the applications won't take full advantage of you hardware. Why is that? Because there are Froyo devices on the market with 528mhz and 600mhz qualcomm processors.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I partly agree, however:
Microsoft have said all phones will run all programs, no fragmentation. But we do know that if not the first wave uses the Adreno 205, the second one will. How long will the game developers care about the ones with the first Adreno 200 users?

Will future versions feature multi-core processors??

Hi,
Not to long ago samsung released their new dual core processor "Orion" with has some amazing specs. They says it will be up for mass production in frist half of 2011.
Both qualcomm and lg has also new smartphone processors coming next year.
Will future windows phone 7 devices feature this? The snapdragon in the current devices is kinda outdated...
My ultimate windows phone 7 phone would feature:
512 meg ram or more
at least 1GHz Orion or similar dual core processor
800 x 480 or greater super-amoled multitouch screen
4" screen
Sleak design in aluminium
Yeah.
WP7 will get put onto all the new software as its needs to compete with Android and the iPhone.
Although the 1GHz snapdragon is a little outdated now i think some people don't realise that it is still a beast of a processor, and WP7 has been specifically designed to run perfectly on it as it was the minimum requirement for Hardware Manufacturers don't forget.
Having Qualcomms "Still in Development" 1.5 Dual Core inside a device would be fantastic, but it's not going to happen anytime soon (2012 at the earliest) and for the time being that doesn't bother me the slightest as my HD7 runs smooth as anything with what it's got. I doubt a dual-core processor would increase the usuability of any of the WP7 Phones, the only thing it would do is reduce loading times of App's/Games/etc, which is currently only seconds anyway.
Agreed, I believe in Q2 2011, the processors will finally be available for manufactures
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Audio said:
Although the 1GHz snapdragon is a little outdated now i think some people don't realise that it is still a beast of a processor, and WP7 has been specifically designed to run perfectly on it as it was the minimum requirement for Hardware Manufacturers don't forget.
Having Qualcomms "Still in Development" 1.5 Dual Core inside a device would be fantastic, but it's not going to happen anytime soon (2012 at the earliest) and for the time being that doesn't bother me the slightest as my HD7 runs smooth as anything with what it's got. I doubt a dual-core processor would increase the usuability of any of the WP7 Phones, the only thing it would do is reduce loading times of App's/Games/etc, which is currently only seconds anyway.
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True but what about Samsungs Orion then?
The other reason why im waiting for a New wp7 device is the lack of exchangeable storage on all devices...
my only concern is about the compatibility of the Phones with LTE technology as Verizon's LTE network will be up in my area by the end of the year.
i'm waiting 1G ram with using nvidia Tegra 2 cpu + 5-7 point mutil touch
CE7 supports multi-core ARM CPUs. There are plans to move WP7 to CE7 (it's currently on a CE6/7 variant) later on. That should happen before dual core chips are a reality so there's no reason Microsoft won't move to it. I would guess that would come with a major software and hardware spec update, maybe WP8. There's no point in tossing the current WP7 on much more powerful hardware because the software won't take advantage of it. Games and apps will still be targeted at the 1ghz SnapDragon so basically things will just load faster.
People really need to get out of this hardware spec mentality. It doesn't matter if the phone had a 100mhz CPU if it performs well. I know that's hard if you're a techy but you have to focus on the end result, not the pieces that make it happen.
hkcyber said:
i'm waiting 1G ram with using nvidia Tegra 2 cpu + 5-7 point mutil touch
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Is this for real? Why would you need 5-7 touch points? Can you even fit 7 fingers on a 4in screen?
I sure as hell hope that Microsoft won't allow this on Pad devices.
Sure the idea with Pad devices might be good, but not with an OS built for a 4" display.
Sir. Haxalot said:
I sure as hell hope that Microsoft won't allow this on Pad devices.
Sure the idea with Pad devices might be good, but not with an OS built for a 4" display.
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yeah, if MS comes out with a pad, I hope they alter the OS or make a new one optimized for a pad sized screen.

Is there any speculation or news on second-gen phones after the first batch?

So,
I'm waiting for the Dell Venue Pro to be released, but it keeps getting delayed...
I'm wondering if some manufactureres would be releasing new phones close to the release of the dvp, thuss, maybe there would be some better phones by then...?
Anyone read something interesting?
quinstar said:
So,
I'm waiting for the Dell Venue Pro to be released, but it keeps getting delayed...
I'm wondering if some manufactureres would be releasing new phones close to the release of the dvp, thuss, maybe there would be some better phones by then...?
Anyone read something interesting?
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That's truly an interesting question for one reason: MS will be doing updating and all phones are suppose to be similar hardware wise...to avoid fragmentation. I believe, with the exception of screen types and camera res, that every WP7 phone currently released, and likely the CDMA versions included, use the same processing hardware.
The reason this is interesting is because, how will MS handle hardware evolution. These WP7 phones certainly can't remain the same forever. Eventually there will be 1.5GHz CPUs and higher res screens. How will MS handle incorporating phones equipped with higher speed CPUs and higher res screens into WP7 filled with the current tech. The whole point of WP7 is keep things level across the board. A current 1GHz SnapDragon certainly would not be level with a 1.5 or 2GHz FlamingLizard dual core CPU.
MartyLK said:
That's truly an interesting question for one reason: MS will be doing updating and all phones are suppose to be similar hardware wise...to avoid fragmentation. I believe, with the exception of screen types and camera res, that every WP7 phone currently released, and likely the CDMA versions included, use the same processing hardware.
The reason this is interesting is because, how will MS handle hardware evolution. These WP7 phones certainly can't remain the same forever. Eventually there will be 1.5GHz CPUs and higher res screens. How will MS handle incorporating phones equipped with higher speed CPUs and higher res screens into WP7 filled with the current tech. The whole point of WP7 is keep things level across the board. A current 1GHz SnapDragon certainly would not be level with a 1.5 or 2GHz FlamingDragon dual core CPU.
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Windows Phone 8 in a year?
It'll be like games consoles, a new one every 5 years or so. After all, with the OS being as fast as it is on 1GHz processors, nobody cares about 1.5GHz ones. Except geeks.
As a geek, I can say that I would insta-buy a FlamingLizard device. That name is just pure awesome.
Seriously though, certain hardware was specified because MS is providing the correct drivers to use that hardware correctly (glowers @ HTC). When new stuff hits, MS will pick a new item they like, make drivers for it, and tell OEM's what to use, just like they've done with the current line. MS has way too much invested in WP7 to let it get relegated to second-rate hardware. Even if Metro doesn't ask for a huge level of processing power, MS is heavily pushing live integration, and I believe that they will be all over stuffing powerful processors into phones in order to sell them as gaming platforms.
MS could go apples way.
Every year in november for example, ms could allow to use higher hardware.
Like: iphone 2g, 3g, 3gs, 4
And ms give us a wp7 version for each generation of wp7 phones
i think the best way for MS to give the hardware manufacturers more capabilities would be to set up benchmarking for all the different components. have the current components as the benchmark for example, and if they want to change say the CPU/GPU, it has to outperform the current benchmark. this way, it becomes a lot more like Android in the manufacturers can make the devices the way they'd like using the parts they'd like.
the only issue is, MS would need to be involved in creating every driver for every different component. i think at present it's quite restricted down to particular components so that you get a good boot up time and running experience, because there isn't redundant/generic drivers on the phone.
As far as I know the requirements aren't as specific as what people are saying, but more "Minimum Requirements"
From what I can remember it's something along the lines of
AT LEAST a 1ghz Processor
AT LEAST a 3.5" Screen
AT LEAST 8Gb Storage
etc etc.
So new devices can come out with faster processors, they wont though... Manufacturers will milk the cheapest hardware for as long as they can. I would expect a rehash of requirements each year.
The whole point of it all isn't really to keep things level, it's to make sure that underpowered devices aren't released that run the OS like crap (Eg Wildfire, Tattoo) and also so that devices aren't released running a version of the OS that's over a year old (Xperia X10)
yeah thats what I was wondering. Those were the minimum requirements not specific reqs as people assume. The hardware manufacturers just stuck to those to save costs. I'm sure if MS did not have these then they would have used even lower end crap, thus destroying any chance WP7 has of attaining success.
FL5 said:
As a geek, I can say that I would insta-buy a FlamingLizard device. That name is just pure awesome.
Seriously though, certain hardware was specified because MS is providing the correct drivers to use that hardware correctly (glowers @ HTC). When new stuff hits, MS will pick a new item they like, make drivers for it, and tell OEM's what to use, just like they've done with the current line. MS has way too much invested in WP7 to let it get relegated to second-rate hardware. Even if Metro doesn't ask for a huge level of processing power, MS is heavily pushing live integration, and I believe that they will be all over stuffing powerful processors into phones in order to sell them as gaming platforms.
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+1 for the flaminglizard dual core cpu. or even blazedmonkey dual core cpu. or bullsballz dual core cpu. so long as it's dual core, i'll buy it. hell, i might even buy it if it ran windows, then dump a android rom on it and have a flaming-dog-ballz rooted/ unlocked dual core cpu smash phone.
HA
ohgood said:
+1 for the flaminglizard dual core cpu. or even blazedmonkey dual core cpu. or bullsballz dual core cpu. so long as it's dual core, i'll buy it. hell, i might even buy it if it ran windows, then dump a android rom on it and have a flaming-dog-ballz rooted/ unlocked dual core cpu smash phone.
HA
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LMAO...funny stuff!
cbebop7 said:
yeah thats what I was wondering. Those were the minimum requirements not specific reqs as people assume. The hardware manufacturers just stuck to those to save costs. I'm sure if MS did not have these then they would have used even lower end crap, thus destroying any chance WP7 has of attaining success.
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I think what certainly would have happened, at least with HTC is they would have 1 premier device, probably the HD7 in it's current iteration. The rest of the devices would then go from Bad to Absolute ****. The Trophy or Mozart would probably have a smaller screen and a severely slow processor by today's standards.
What will happen eventually is someone will realise that the majority of the handsets are the same and release something with better specs than the current bunch in an attempt to stand out from the crowd. My guess is it will be LG
Here's my take on it.
First half of 2011:
* Chassis 2 handsets start appearing, being technically the same as launch devices.
Come November 2011:
* WP8 devices come consisting of second or third gen snapdragons and/or introduce another SoC like Hummingbird or OMAP.
* Chassis 3 handsets also start appearing (tablets or gaming style deisgn like PSPhone maybe?)
My wishes:
* Resolution bump for tablets and smartphones
* Hero phone introduced by Microsoft (much like the Nexus series), Zune/xbox phone anyone?
edit: looks like WP8 will actually be coming out end of 2012 http://pocketnow.com/windows-phone/windows-phone-7-mango-rumors

What are the differences between 1st Gen and 2nd Gen WP devices for Apollo.

When I read some threads in this forum, I keep on seeing people making comments like 2nd gen WP devices like TItan II and Lumia 900 getting Apollo updates but not 1st gen devices like my HD7 because of hardware. It makes me laugh coz the question is whats the difference between this devices in general.
Just look at this:
1st gen and 2nd gen have the same 512 MB ROM,
The have the Same 512 MB RAM (even more on my HD7 which has a RAM of 576MB)
CPU speed is just a difference of 0.5 (1ghz for 1st gen and maximum of 1.5ghz for 2nd gen)
Based on these important specs, why can one then say 2nd gen can get Apollo updates whilst 1st gen can't. I mean based on what? cpu what?
I even see people writing that, Tango devices are similar to 1st gen so both wont get Apollo and 2nd gen will get...what the heck? With tango devices running half of all these specs? How can you write something like this...SMH.
I have always wondered the same thing. I could see certain companies (cough cough AT&T cough cough) not pushing any update for Gen 1 since it will have been 2 years since the phones were launched.
The only issue I can really see is that the OS might need different drivers to run Windows Phone 8 due to a very different kernel. This would mean the manufacturer would have to release a driver update for a 2 year old phone. Thus, I could see Samsung (for example) only releasing drivers for the Focus S and Focus Flash, but not the original Focus.
Didn't microsoft promised support to all the phones for like 3 years or something? I remember people saying that continued support is another reason for them to buy WP7.
lamborg said:
Didn't microsoft promised support to all the phones for like 3 years or something? I remember people saying that continued support is another reason for them to buy WP7.
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No, they said two major upgrades.
So that means: Mango, Tango.
More answers to the same question here.
EgoMaximus said:
No, they said two major upgrades.
So that means: Mango, Tango.
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But Tango is a Minor update right? That means it's left with One major update.
Kenzibit said:
But Tango is a Minor update right? That means it's left with One major update.
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True tango just like nodo are consider minor updates.And if they promise 2 major updates that should be mango and apollo.
Kenzibit said:
Just look at this:
1st gen and 2nd gen have the same 512 MB ROM,
The have the Same 512 MB RAM (even more on my HD7 which has a RAM of 576MB)
CPU speed is just a difference of 0.5 (1ghz for 1st gen and maximum of 1.5ghz for 2nd gen)
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You don't understand how hardware works do you?
Yes they have the same amount of RAM, but it is most likely faster RAM like DDR2 compared to DDR3.
Yes, the clock speed is only .4-.5 GHz faster, but that's a 40-50% gain in clock alone nevermind the fact that the newer Snapdragon does more work per clock cycle. So, you're talking 2-3 times the performance.
The GPU in the newer Snapdragon is also 2-3 times faster & that SoC also has better battery life thanks the the smaller nm technology.
Also, you're forgetting about the hardware level enhancements to the chips. Basically talking about SSE/etc. equivalent. Certain versions of Adobe Photoshop won't work on certain CPU's just because a lack of SSE.
Spec sheets mean nothing if you don't know this kind of information. It'd be like compared an AMD Athlon XP 2.5 GHz CPU to a AMD 2.5 GHz x64. They are both 2.5 GHz & were out at the same time, but the x64 was vastly superior & not just because it was a 64-bit CPU. Another example is Celeron/Pentium. Granted thread, that huge performance increase was Cache memory.
These differences are not much if I'm right. They just can't choose to upgrade 2nd gen devices and leave these 1st gen based on this small difference. I would understand if it were between a single core and a dual core.
Right said!
ieatrappers said:
true tango just like nodo are consider minor updates.and if they promise 2 major updates that should be mango and apollo.
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rightly said!!
iEatRappers said:
True tango just like nodo are consider minor updates.And if they promise 2 major updates that should be mango and apollo.
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I think you are in for a nice surprise then. It will bring more than NoDo ever did
drkfngthdragnlrd said:
You don't understand how hardware works do you?
Yes they have the same amount of RAM, but it is most likely faster RAM like DDR2 compared to DDR3.
Yes, the clock speed is only .4-.5 GHz faster, but that's a 40-50% gain in clock alone nevermind the fact that the newer Snapdragon does more work per clock cycle. So, you're talking 2-3 times the performance.
The GPU in the newer Snapdragon is also 2-3 times faster & that SoC also has better battery life thanks the the smaller nm technology.
Also, you're forgetting about the hardware level enhancements to the chips. Basically talking about SSE/etc. equivalent. Certain versions of Adobe Photoshop won't work on certain CPU's just because a lack of SSE.
Spec sheets mean nothing if you don't know this kind of information. It'd be like compared an AMD Athlon XP 2.5 GHz CPU to a AMD 2.5 GHz x64. They are both 2.5 GHz & were out at the same time, but the x64 was vastly superior & not just because it was a 64-bit CPU. Another example is Celeron/Pentium. Granted thread, that huge performance increase was Cache memory.
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This.
EgoMaximus said:
I think you are in for a nice surprise then. It will bring more than NoDo ever did
This.
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If I may ask, are you a Microsoft guy? The answer you gave us is kind of specific....it's like you've seen and used Tango on a device.
Sounds like EgoMaximus works in Microsoft. Interesting what we will see soon.
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I think we will get window Apollo on 1st gen handsets but I think it is going to be some what crippled with not all the functionality that 3rd or what ever there up the when it finally launches will have.
No win 8 for WP7 device
Sadly i think is quite clear we wont see WP8 on our Gen 1 and 2 devices. Its not that the phones spec's and performance are too low. Microsoft made it quite clear that Win on Arm requires UEFI firmware /w secure boot and ACPI power management.
eviloverlord said:
Sadly i think is quite clear we wont see WP8 on our Gen 1 and 2 devices. Its not that the phones spec's and performance are too low. Microsoft made it quite clear that Win on Arm requires UEFI firmware /w secure boot and ACPI power management.
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yes that is true for Windows 8 for ARM, but Windows 8 for ARM =/= Windows Phone 8, yes they will share things but they are not the same.
lamborg said:
Didn't microsoft promised support to all the phones for like 3 years or something? I remember people saying that continued support is another reason for them to buy WP7.
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Tell that to AT&T. Still on 7720 here dealing with the keyboard disappearing problem every single day.
karan1203 said:
Tell that to AT&T. Still on 7720 here dealing with the keyboard disappearing problem every single day.
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Update yourself
Nitro_123 said:
Update yourself
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Agreed. Screw ATT - updated my titan with the cab sender. just make sure you also put in the language packs for each update. Took me like 5 minutes.

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