Related
i don't know if this is worth the work that might be necessary to be put in or if it is even possible, but hear me out:
i am active on a lot of forums and i have seen that lately, many forums switch their policy on "thank you" posts, forbidding users from creating new posts, just to say thank you. instead, most implemented a feature, that gives you a button at the end of every post, next to quote and quick reply... that is meant for thanking the original poster.
the idea behind it is to keep threads clean, so that even in a section with many visitors, it is easy to find relevant information.
some rom threads here have so many posts (most of which just "thank you"s), that the chefs have a hard time finding actual bug reports or constructive criticism. often, in tutorial threads, all the thank you posts make it hard to find actual questions of people in need.
i am mostly supporting newbie users here and writing tutorials and i like it, when people actually appreciate my work, but by doing it with a button instead of a text, everything would stay a lot cleaner.
somehow i feel, that in my new section (blackstone), "thanks" is the new spam clogging the forum.
especially threads like the blackstone nrg rom thread (http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=562952) with 17,945 Replies and 2,834,609 Views are a good example to profit from my suggestion but also every other rom thread, tutorial thread or FAQ thread would be better off
Niice idea I have seen this over at se7ensin and I think it would be useful, or maybe just a thunbs up and down button
You can rate threads using the star buttons up at the top of the page already, but not a post in particular.
You know, we actually built this feature a few months back. At the last minute, we killed it for some reason. If there is a lot of support for this idea, we can re-investigate, but for now you can show your love for a thread by rating it.
Sent from my Nexus One using XDA App
I'd support the idea of a Thank You button here on xda, but with the number of users on daily... even hourly, that's THOUSANDS of Thank Yous'... which will increase the database size ginormously... and possibly jack up the Post Bit Legacy format... Just my two cents, though I haven't Administered a vBulletin board & database since 3.7.2. I'm not sure about the new features implemented in the 3.8.x series.
I'm sure all of you are getting sick of the flood of questions that come in and the single question and answer thread is just too long to go through to find questions let alone answer them. Hopefully we can get enough people on board to let the moderators know that this is a welcome addition. Seeing as how many phones have highest number of threads in the Q&A section, I think it is a worthy addition.
Problems:
1) Lack of moderation - the volume of posts, especially from new users is higher than the what can reasonably be moderated by the current number of moderators.
2) Relevant threads containing real information are buried by new threads (many which are off topic or not posted in the correct forum)
3) The forum is disorganized, which exacerbates the issue of new users asking duplicate, off topic, poor, misinformed questions.
4) There is an incredible lack of information for new users on usage, which creates a contentious atmosphere between new users and senior members who re-answer the same questions over and over, most of the time about HOW to use the forum and search features.
5) User modifiable resources like the wiki are unknown or obfuscated from new and long time members alike, thus rarely used. (On a side note....we should all be using the wiki to push pertinent information, valueable posts, references and guides up so that noobs (and experienced users also) can find them easier.)
Proposed Solutions:
1) Create additional subforums to help organize posts into relevant categories. (I vote for at least Q&A. MOST popular forums on XDA have this, so there is certainly precedent.)
2) Better sticky posts, with clearer titles. "Hello from your moderator." is not as clear to a new user as "[MANDATORY README]-[FORUM RULES][QUESTIONS][INSTRUCTIONS][If you don't read this you will be flamed, harrassed, possibly shanked in your sleep!]" You are reading this thread because of the title...that or you saw the DVDA postfix...you sick sick bastard...either way I win.
3) More moderators. It is far too hard for Whosdaman to constantly update sticky posts with relevant info. It is up to everyone here to get that info out so we aren't bombarded with questions that have been answered a hundred times. Wiki anyone?
4) We have a great resource in user editable wiki. There is a lot of stuff that can be done BETTER on a wiki than in a 1000 post thread, like reference material, guides, and instructions. We need to make it obvious to ALL users that the wiki exists and get people on board with updating it. Threads are a great way to hash out possible solutions and have a group discussion, but a lot of times what people need is a reference or guide and they shouldn't have to search a 1000 post thread to pull the relevant information.
5) Original posters need to update their OP when new information is revealed or when there is misinformation in a post. Having a post that's title says your flash cell is about to explode only to have to read 600 posts to find out that this information is untrue helps no one. Discussion is GREAT. Misinformation is NOT, and only fuels the confusion and duplicate thread issues.
From The Front Line:
Thanks for the outpouring of support and ideas to help get the ball rolling. Several of our ideas have been recently implemented so I am really hoping for some good news next war update.
20110109: Woot! We now have Q&A. Thanks mods and supporters!
20110109: My social experiment of double entendre "sticky posts" has 2000 views in only a couple of days. I'm not going to call this one confirmed, but if it stopped even 1 bad thread it was worth it.
20110109: We have sticky wiki in all the subforums. Now we need to add content to the wiki before people stop using it.
One Last Thing:
There are very few things we can change with regard to how many new users visit this forum, or the knowledge level of these users. The only thing we CAN do is make what they need to do as obvious as possible to these users, so that we can spend more time coding and writing relevant posts, instead of redirecting people to the search button, or frustration flaming newbies.
+1 agreed. This is ridiculous, it's a clusterf**k in these forums. Q & A is exactly what we need.
Sent from my SPH-D700 using XDA App
I will say yes to the q&a it will cause less clutter.
Sent from my SPH-D700 using XDA App
No, Q&A IS the general forum. What is needed is a sticky in the general forum with a CLEAR and concise description of how to:
root
use Odin
use clockwork
flash themes
flash roms
battery saving methods
airplane mode trick
DRM services and how to stop them
and ANYTHING else that gets asked multiple times a day. I dont know if some sort of limited moderator status can be granted, but if so it would be nice for noobnl, Daemon and a bunch of others to have said status and be able to update this sticky at any time. I am sure there are a ton of people who would be glad to do it.
Then, what is needed is a sticky called FROYO SPECULATION, where EVERY thread that deals with speculation of the coming Froyo release is moved, and all discussion of that topic is directed.
muyoso said:
No, Q&A IS the general forum. What is needed is a sticky in the general forum with a CLEAR and concise description of how to:
root
use Odin
use clockwork
flash themes
flash roms
battery saving methods
airplane mode trick
DRM services and how to stop them
and ANYTHING else that gets asked multiple times a day. I dont know if some sort of limited moderator status can be granted, but if so it would be nice for noobnl, Daemon and a bunch of others to have said status and be able to update this sticky at any time. I am sure there are a ton of people who would be glad to do it.
Then, what is needed is a sticky called FROYO SPECULATION, where EVERY thread that deals with speculation of the coming Froyo release is moved, and all discussion of that topic is directed.
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what you are saying isn't wrong but i want one
muyoso said:
No, Q&A IS the general forum. What is needed is a sticky in the general forum with a CLEAR and concise description of how to:
root
use Odin
use clockwork
flash themes
flash roms
battery saving methods
airplane mode trick
DRM services and how to stop them
and ANYTHING else that gets asked multiple times a day. I dont know if some sort of limited moderator status can be granted, but if so it would be nice for noobnl, Daemon and a bunch of others to have said status and be able to update this sticky at any time. I am sure there are a ton of people who would be glad to do it.
Then, what is needed is a sticky called FROYO SPECULATION, where EVERY thread that deals with speculation of the coming Froyo release is moved, and all discussion of that topic is directed.
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Click to collapse
That is EXACTLY what the Wiki is for. But people either don't know about it, use it, or update it. Anyone can update the wiki. Leaving all of the cleanup to moderators isn't fair, or effective at getting stuff up quickly. There should be better indication to go to the wiki and more people need to start using it.
plapczyn said:
That is EXACTLY what the Wiki is for. But people either don't know about it, use it, or update it. Anyone can update the wiki. Leaving all of the cleanup to moderators isn't fair, or effective at getting stuff up quickly. There should be better indication to go to the wiki and more people need to start using it.
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Thats fine, but where the eff is the wiki? A person who just bought their epic and signed up would NEVER find it. There needs to be like a flashing light and have the font in size 4.2 million saying "Epic 4g XDA User Manual" or something like that.
muyoso said:
Thats fine, but where the eff is the wiki? A person who just bought their epic and signed up would NEVER find it. There needs to be like a flashing light and have the font in size 4.2 million saying "Epic 4g XDA User Manual" or something like that.
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I agree. Or a sticky at the top of ALL of the subforums linking to the wiki. There used to be a STICKYWIKI post, but the title got changed.
I agree the wiki needs serious editing and updating, and we should all be somewhat responsible. Maybe if you flame a newbie, you have to add a paragraph, like a swear jar smoothone, get typing hahaha.. sorry... had to... but I get the feeling you dont mind.
Honestly, I wish sprint would just say screw you, no froyo. This way, people would move on, keep developing, not thinking to wait on that elusive source code... and stop *****ing. The repeat questions, etc werent that bad until that stupid 26th thing brought a bunch of new people at once, so everyone here who was already waiting and annoyed, then get bombarded with new people who heard about XDA from engadget.
BTW... wheres those two who had those super secret sources?????? Kinda quiet....
Bloggers: do not cite an XDA member, or their word they have a good source unless they show you the goods! Somehow, everyone thinks XDA really knows more than the average joe... and dont trust Sprint sales info or personnel!!!!
Sure, let's create yet ANOTHER ignored forum that the mod(s) get to monitor and spend more time on while every single new user here ignores it and the search button just to post the question anyway.
Instead of making a new forum, we need another moderator added to help manage the forum.
And make a post count minimum to START a new thread!! Too many ppl coming over straight from google and, not knowing how to use xda (or their effen owners manual) to its fullest.
Sent from my SPH-D700 using XDA App
othan1 said:
Sure, let's create yet ANOTHER ignored forum that the mod(s) get to monitor and spend more time on while every single new user here ignores it and the search button just to post the question anyway.
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Dumping questions to a Q&A forum creates less clutter for the other forums, thus relevant threads will more likely be in the first two pages.
lazydazed said:
And make a post count minimum to START a new thread!! Too many ppl coming over straight from google and, not knowing how to use xda (or their effen owners manual) to its fullest.
Sent from my SPH-D700 using XDA App
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I love that idea, but there are occasionally relevant posts from new users. I would like to think that not EVERYONE that initially comes to XDA is a moron. But I guess I'm a glass half full kind of guy.
It looks like a lot of people are in favor of it.
The Q&A forum will just be full of people asking the SAME QUESTIONS over and over and over again. Why not just create a sticky that either links to an updated wiki or better yet that lays out nicely how to do basic things with the Epic4g?
muyoso said:
The Q&A forum will just be full of people asking the SAME QUESTIONS over and over and over again. Why not just create a sticky that either links to an updated wiki or better yet that lays out nicely how to do basic things with the Epic4g?
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That's ok, as long as the questions aren't in the other forums. But I agree, sticky to the wiki should be on all subforums.
Personally I don't care if the Q&A forum is filled with spam repost topics. All I, and others, want is for the it to be quarantined.
Sent from my SPH-D700 using XDA App
muyoso said:
The Q&A forum will just be full of people asking the SAME QUESTIONS over and over and over again. Why not just create a sticky that either links to an updated wiki or better yet that lays out nicely how to do basic things with the Epic4g?
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Click to collapse
That will happen in any forum. We do need a sticky, but don't expect that to stop the noobs from asking before reading.
I see that some of the other Galaxy phones here on xda have a Q&A in addition to a general section. General is used for general discussion and Q&A is for all questions. It seems like it would be more obvious for noobs to wander into the Q&A section to ask questions and hopefully save the mods some effort while also cleaning up our little corner of this website.
DiGi760 said:
That will happen in any forum. We do need a sticky, but don't expect that to stop the noobs from asking before reading.
I see that some of the other Galaxy phones here on xda have a Q&A in addition to a general section. General is used for general discussion and Q&A is for all questions. It seems like it would be more obvious for noobs to wander into the Q&A section to ask questions and hopefully save the mods some effort while also cleaning up our little corner of this website.
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Exactly my point. Also, as someone mentioned...the cycle of useless questions that cant be prevented will at least be quarantined.
Let me start by saying that I love the XDA forum! The talent in developers is amazing, and there are so many members that are willing to share their experiences and knowledge all in the name of making our devices do what they say could not be done.
With that being said there is a huge trend towards meaningless flaming and complaining. Groundbreaking development threads growing by thousands of posts per week, only to be closed for stupid comments and tags, people being rude and downright mean just because someone asked a question.
Would it be possible to change the thanks system to allow for negative feedback, and for there to be consequences for not following the rules? A like/dislike option would help the mods keep on top of an enormous task of being able to keep the forums clean and alllow users another way to find truly helpful members and posts.
Just a thought, thanks in advance for your consideration.
We have discussed the option of adding negative feedback but due to the reasons you suggested above, we are concerned that it might be abused. For example one faction of developers, constantly downgrading anothers work.
Any post breaking the forum can be reported using the "Report post" button and a moderator will look into it.
The Thanks was added as a way to reduce the number "Thanks" posts that appeared after a release.
Over the last couple of years the number of users on XDA has absolutely sky rocketed, this is no surprise given the technical ability and ideas that developers share with the community helping us all get more from our devices.
It also comes as no surprise that many users (myself included) like to thank the devs and other users for the help and software they share with us.
So with so many grateful users its no surprise that there is a lot of gratitude going around.
But this has lead to many threads, some of which are 1000's of posts in length being diluted with posts containing little more than:
Thanks OP
Downloading now
+1
Been waiting for this
etc. etc.
Back in December 2010 XDA introduced the "Thanks" button to alleviate this problem while still allowing users to show their support for the developer/helper but it goes largely unused especially in the forums for the current best selling devices.
When creating a new thread users are prompted with a list of similar threads in an attempt to reduce duplicate topics.
Would it be possible to have a similar system urging people to use the "thanks" button when the reply button is hit, that way making the user aware they can thank someone without diluting the content of the thread with "+1" type comments
Something like this could really help keep threads on topic and have a higher percentage of useful feedback. It would make it easier for users to find the information they need and reduce the number of posts devs have to read through to get technical feedback on their work.
Thoughts?
Apart from the "thanks" and "+1", the developer's sub-forums are peppered with posts that seem to be not really helpful, such as enquiring about download links and unrelated stuff.
I'd think that the awareness of the "Thanks" feature is there. Especially with many people with that reminder in their signature, that reminder appears every other post. The problem lies with people. They need to watch the XDA video and be reminded that they are not unique.
Though the idea is great,having to deal with a pop-up/notification whenever someone replies to a thread can be REALLY REALLY annoying ...
Also,people don't always reply to help other people,as seen in OT threads/OT forum.Members usually tend to have some fun in xda too After all,all work and no play makes a man dull
This thread is aimed at teaching new users the way to be able to post in a development thread WITHOUT spamming or posting rubbish and help you get along better in the development threads.
I know that this thread will probably be ignored by most users who this is aimed at, BUT if it helps teach even a few users then this has been worth it.
**As of January 2016, you no longer need to have 10 posts to be able to post in development threads. To be able to create your own thread in the development forums you will need to have 50 posts though.
If you have a thread you'd like to post into the development forum but you don't have enough posts, you can create your thread in the General section for your device and then ask a Moderator of that forum to move it into the Development forum for you.**
First, let's look at why new users generally want to be able to post in a development thread ;
*They think it's the cool place to hangout.
*They think their question will be answered quicker.
*They want to say thanks to a developer for the work that they've done.
*They think their question is important and should be posted in development.
Now, let's explain the truth about the 4 points above ;
*Development threads are NOT the cool place to hangout. As this is a development forum there's no need to hangout but if you really feel the need to relax and hangout with other members, then participate in some discussions in the General section of your device.
*Your question will NOT be answered any quicker by posting it in a development thread. If you take a look at every single device forum on XDA, you'll see that the Q&A forum will always have more posts and threads than development forums will.
*While it's nice that you want to thank the developer for their hard work, making a post saying "Thanks" will only fill up the thread with useless posts. To stop this, XDA admins added a Thanks button which you will see at the bottom of every post on this forum (as long as you have made 1 post). If you're using the XDA app, just click on the relevant post and you'll see a few options appear. One of those options is "Thanks".
If you think that clicking the Thanks button is not enough then you could always donate to the developer to help them carry on development.
*While your question may well be important, it still doesn't belong in the development section. You may get flamed if you post your question there as all questions should be posted in the Q&A, Help & Troubleshooting forum. Development is only intended for development.
What's the best way for me to make 50 posts?
*As is mentioned a lot when talking about new users, the best way to make your first 50 posts is to go to your device forum and see if you can help some people in the Q&A forum. This is a great thing to do because it means you can help others learn more from you helping them with their questions. You may also gain some Thanks along the way.
*If you can't answer the questions, either because they're too hard OR others answer them too quickly, you go into your devices General forum and get involved in some discussions about your phone. This is a great thing to do because it can teach you some things which you didn't know about your device + you may be able to share what you've learnt which others may not know about. It also gives you a good introduction to your forum and the people you will see there.
*If you can't contribute towards any of the discussions either then you can also have a look around the following forums and see if you can help people in the forums aswell - General, Questions & Answers, Android General and Android Q&A.
How can I get involved with the development community?
Well, being active is the simple answer.
As you'll notice across XDA, the type of posts allowed in development threads are decided by the developer. Some developers want dev talk only. The won't want any kind of questions or general comments. Most, however, don't really mind what kind of posts go into their thread. Most will allow questions and a small amount of off topic chatter to happen within their thread. This allows a small community to grow - one who uses this certain piece of development and can help out others along the way. Getting involved in such small communities is great because you can learn a lot, help people a lot and even make your way towards those 50 posts needed to create your own thread in the development forums.
Now that you've read through this thread, you will know the best and easiest way to make your first 50 posts. If you see any other members who are not following this guidance, feel free to link them to this thread so that they can learn from it aswell. Now you're good to go!
Good job, I added a link from the new user guide. :good:
This is definitely the thing that was needed.
@KidCarter93,you have done a good job
:good: :good:
d'oh said:
Seriosly, the rule annoys me, having 10 posts does not mean you have any idea about developement...
Half of the posts in the dev threads i follow are exactly the kind of posts that are tried to prevent with this rule... The authors of the posts often have 100+ posts but show they do not have any idea...
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Click to collapse
You are right.. if the rule wasn't there.. think what might have happened.. it prevents users from creating account and jump to development section.. it lets you understand how the site works when you are gaining 10 posts..
You can always report such posts you mentioned or you can suggest better alternative if you have one in alternative to 10 post rule thread here..
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=2115765
mikef said:
Good job, I added a link from the new user guide. :good:
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Well done mate !
Just added a link from the New members friendly Q&A thread.
Nice write up you always do a good job with these things.
sent from my T.A.R.T.I.S
(Time And Relative Tarts In Space)
Thx for the advice
Being one of the users this thread is aimed at, I say thank you.
Your tone is friendly and not arrogant, the advice seems helpful and reasonable.
And I say this although I'm one of the users who's reason to post is not listed in your first argument about "why new users generally want to be able to post in a development thread".
I actually wanted to post, to report on a currently discussed issue, that seemed to be not clear yet and help another user by linking to a thread about Link2SD to help him resolve his issue.
But I understand and accept the rules - that's why I'm off now to the Q&A for the SGA. Maybe I can share my experiences with flashing my device there
McFex said:
Being one of the users this thread is aimed at, I say thank you.
Your tone is friendly and not arrogant, the advice seems helpful and reasonable.
And I say this although I'm one of the users who's reason to post is not listed in your first argument about "why new users generally want to be able to post in a development thread".
I actually wanted to post, to report on a currently discussed issue, that seemed to be not clear yet and help another user by linking to a thread about Link2SD to help him resolve his issue.
But I understand and accept the rules - that's why I'm off now to the Q&A for the SGA. Maybe I can share my experiences with flashing my device there
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I'd just like to say thanks for doing things "properly". When you first posted the above comment, I kept an eye on your posts to see what you were posting. I was actually pleasently surprised to see you were posting the way this thread asks for it to be done.
Sent from my HTC One using xda premium
KidCarter93 said:
I'd just like to say thanks for doing things "properly". When you first posted the above comment, I kept an eye on your posts to see what you were posting. I was actually pleasently surprised to see you were posting the way this thread asks for it to be done.
Sent from my HTC One using xda premium
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Even if I run the risk of posting the occasional "useless" post here, let me say thanks for saying thanks .
Feels good to be appreciated.
This forum is wonderful, just like most of the regulars here.
It's a pity, that for many noobs the substance of the first post is not common sense, but I guess most noobs are also noobs to life itself (unlike me ), and still have to learn the meaning of "If you wish for potatoes, you better grab a hoe!".
But you know how it is, haters gonna hate and noobs will be noobs
What about experienced devs who happen to be new to xda?
Thanks for the post, those are good points about how to make your 10 posts, but I can't help but feel a little frustrated as a long time software developer but new xda user:
KidCarter93 said:
First, let's look at why new users generally want to be able to post in a development thread ;
*They think it's the cool place to hangout.
*They think their question will be answered quicker.
*They want to say thanks to a developer for the work that they've done.
*They think their question is important and should be posted in development.
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The ROM I use uses XDA as their main bug reporting platform, I have a legitimate bug report to make but it's a bit annoying having to jump through hoops to report it
brainflakes said:
Thanks for the post, those are good points about how to make your 10 posts, but I can't help but feel a little frustrated as a long time software developer but new xda user:
The ROM I use uses XDA as their main bug reporting platform, I have a legitimate bug report to make but it's a bit annoying having to jump through hoops to report it
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Well, you can pm the dev or any active user in that thread to post it in behalf of you. Or just make 10 posts as xda is more than just a single rom and you would surely like to get involved sooner or later
______________________________________
[APP][2.3+] SpecCheck - Compare Devices Side By Side
Deadly said:
Well, you can pm the dev or any active user in that thread to post it in behalf of you. Or just make 10 posts as xda is more than just a single rom and you would surely like to get involved sooner or later
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Well, I wouldn't know who was best to hassle with a PM Anyway yeah I'm just bringing my post number up by answering Q&A questions, I suppose helping a few users out is "payment" for being able to use the dev forum
brainflakes said:
Thanks for the post, those are good points about how to make your 10 posts, but I can't help but feel a little frustrated as a long time software developer but new xda user:
The ROM I use uses XDA as their main bug reporting platform, I have a legitimate bug report to make but it's a bit annoying having to jump through hoops to report it
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Experienced devs could always write to a moderator and ask for the restriction to be lifted for their account. Surprisingly few do this however, but generally just start helping people and get to 10 pretty quickly.
Thank you,
mikef
XDA Senior Moderator
thanks for information
going to dhd forum to help other guys......
Notes taken :good:
I already have more than 10 posts, how come I still cant post in development?
MilkEven said:
I already have more than 10 posts, how come I still cant post in development?
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Sometimes it can take up to an hour before your able to post in development because of the system refreshing itself.
If it becomes over an hour since your tenth post, your best option would be to contact a moderator who could then get it sorted for you
Your question shouldn't have been asked in here though.
Sent from my HTC One using xda premium
hey guys, i got now 10 posts, but still cannot post in developer forum :/
*edit* ... already answered... im stupid
eloquent said:
hey guys, i got now 10 posts, but still cannot post in developer forum :/
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KidCarter93 said:
Sometimes it can take up to an hour before your able to post in development because of the system refreshing itself.
If it becomes over an hour since your tenth post, your best option would be to contact a moderator who could then get it sorted for you
Your question shouldn't have been asked in here though.
Sent from my HTC One using xda premium
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^ This ^
______________________________________
One can change their name, but not attitude -Rahul
Developer frustration
I totally see the point... BUT: As a developer wanting to help by sharing modules/code on a development thread I was thwarted by the ten post rule.
Sure, I can take the time to "help" in other threads so that I can ultimately help in the thread that I originally intended but it makes me wonder how many skilled developers are refraining from helping simply because they don't have the time or inclination to get to the ten post count.
In the spirit of helping people that are having the same problem as I had (that drove me to develop the module I'm planning on posting) I will persevere.