Related
Something that I'm coming to terms with, with the Android OS and HTC. It's feeling a bit like my desktop computer.
Obviously pros and cons.
But the irritating thing is that, unlike my desktop, you don't really have an option to exit most apps. Why? I love Android because it's very customisable. But why is there not the option to leave it in the background OR close it completely? I'm not an Apple fan, but I get the feeling that they will have a cleaner multitask/program control system. Eventually. Still won't buy one though!
Then you have the Palm WebOS that shows everyone how to multitask. And with, let's be frank, hardware that puts it (at best) middle of the smartphone pack.
Then you have startup. I've got Fring and Docs to Go (free version), and for some reason, they both startup with powering up. Fring even has an option to startup or not to startup. Maybe that's a bug. But Docs to Go? I can't even see the option. Hopefully these two are the exceptions.
But just the simple thing (I think) first. Why the hell is there not an option on every program to exit it - therefore killing it dead?! Why why why? I'm no programmer but is this really such an issue???
Fortunately there's many programmers on this great site so maybe someone can educate me.....
Cleargrey said:
But just the simple thing (I think) first. Why the hell is there not an option on every program to exit it - therefore killing it dead?! Why why why? I'm no programmer but is this really such an issue???
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Because the android system doesn't need to kill applications, it just takes resources from them when they are needed. You can manually kill tasks but then the resources will just be reassigned in a matter of minutes.
Which is definitely impressive.
But as some programmers I've spoken to said, it doesn't seem to work as precisely as you may want. Windows Mobile had a similar issue. It was meant to work, but didn't.
In fact, now that you mention it, I think I may do a Palm PreCentral.com task, and see how many apps I can open before I see slowdown. If I see slowdown.
This will be interesting....
Go and read at Google how to setup an android application an how the application processes work. You don't have to be a programmer, but it answers all you questions and doubts.
There was even an article somewhere that using a taskmanager and killing tasks decreases battery life. Not what you would expect, but understandable when you see how the structure works.
Cleargrey said:
Then you have startup. I've got Fring and Docs to Go (free version), and for some reason, they both startup with powering up. Fring even has an option to startup or not to startup. Maybe that's a bug. But Docs to Go? I can't even see the option. Hopefully these two are the exceptions.
Fortunately there's many programmers on this great site so maybe someone can educate me.....
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I assume that Docs to Go preloads some stuff it needs so that it won't have to load that when opening the first document. You have to see: A background task isn't something bad, as long as it's not doing anything it won't use battery either.
Same with "free" memory: if memory is "free", it's not being used. Docs to Go puts itself in the memory so it's already there when needed. You'll never have trouble with not having enough free memory to run an app, because Android takes care of that (frees memory when needed, leaves stuff in memory when there is plenyty of room to do so).
Use advanced task killer and it should kill any app, with all apps you should be able to turn it off so it doesn't automatically start when you turn on the phone, try opening the app and press menu or look into the options to turn it off
@ RaptorRVL - I would be very interested in reading that article. And I don't mean that in a sarcastic way, I mean I would honestly be interested in reading it as if it's true, I need to adjust my thinking on how Android workds. I'm looking, but if you find any links, please share.
@oawalker - I know there's many arguements about task killers whether they are needed or not. I have one. But I'm not going to say it's absolutely necessary as I think I need to read more hard facts. But it sort of brings me back here.
As jm997 has said, Android OS rejiggs resources as required, so you are never left wanting. However on earlier devices, this was obviously not working to such a degree as many complained of slowdown. Hence we come to today with the arguements of do I / don't I get/need a task manager.
I have to admit, it was the first app that I got so I could see what is running natively so I know what not to trouble. But I'm a control freak, I have to know.
What I just did was to load up every app I had, 50 in total, along with the apps and widgets already running, maybe another 5-10, to see if I can see slowdown. And I watched the memory on my memory widget drop to 10%. And I gotta say, my Desire is still running as smooth as it ever was with maybe a slightest fraction of slowdown. If that.
However, 1. I have no idea what affect this has on my battery life. 2. I would still like to be able to totally close something by simply tapping exit, or purposely leave it running.
Don't get me wrong, the multitasking, as I've just mentioned, is very impressive and obviously much better than earlier versions. And Android is still a new OS that's maturing nicely. But I still gotta wonder if this is a clean way to operate or if we are heading for a bit of a Microsoft Windows Mobile 6.x mess.
Now to find those pages RaptorRVL spoke of......
Random trivia: I just put "android", "google" and "multitasking" into Google, and the top 3 hits are all about speculation about will a platform that doesn't really multitask, really multitask.
"Rumored iPhone OS multitasking would use Exposé-like feature"
"Apple iPhone vs. Google Android – Mobile Software War Between ..."
"Are the people at Google watching the iPad release? - Android Help"
Go figure. Come to your own conclusions....
If I remember correctly, in the earlier versions of Android (1.x), there was an option for developers to force programs to stay in memory. This was meant to be for programs that needed it, but unfortunally it was abused, so Google removed it as of 2.x.
The Desire runs 2.1, so it shouldn't be a problem for us anymore.
This article was written in Norwegian, but I'll post a Google translate link, as it was very good
edit:
Here is the link to the translated article:
http://translate.google.com/transla...du-avslutte-programmer-i-android/&sl=no&tl=en
Some words was translated badly, but most of it was fine.
Cleargrey said:
Random trivia: I just put "android", "google" and "multitasking" into Google, and the top 3 hits are all about speculation about will a platform that doesn't really multitask, really multitask.
"Rumored iPhone OS multitasking would use Exposé-like feature"
"Apple iPhone vs. Google Android – Mobile Software War Between ..."
"Are the people at Google watching the iPad release? - Android Help"
Go figure. Come to your own conclusions....
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
here you go
http://geekfor.me/faq/you-shouldnt-be-using-a-task-killer-with-android/
this should enlighten you about Android memory management as it did for me
good luck
That was the article I was referring to.
And for more information read this: http://developer.android.com/guide/
Thanks Zappza and irkan. Great info and very informative.
I think the bits that stuck out for me are:
"The point is to not see Android as a PC, where applications run until you stop them. It works just not the same."
"...linux will run the same regardless of if you have 20mb free memory or 200mb."
"It has been possible for software developers to implement a feature... and could therefore not be concluded automatically. Android phone will not quit the program even if there is a need for memory or CPU resources the program uses. ...As a result, so the function removed in Android 2.0."
Ok, for the next week at least, no killing tasks at all. Let's see how that goes.
I like this site. There's always people willing to school you with facts rather than abuse you with hot air.
When I turn my phone on I get all of these apps running:
Music
FM Radio
Calander
People
Documents2Go
ShopSavvy
Assistant Free
CNET scan and shop
timeriffic
3
Photos
Mail
Footprints
Google Mail
Settings
3G watchdog
Wave secure
handcet sms
messages
facebook
clock
advanced Task Killer
How can I stop this??? Surely this is taking up my battery??
Raminder1992 said:
When I turn my phone on I get all of these apps running:
Music
FM Radio
Calander
People
Documents2Go
ShopSavvy
Assistant Free
CNET scan and shop
timeriffic
3
Photos
Mail
Footprints
Google Mail
Settings
3G watchdog
Wave secure
handcet sms
messages
facebook
clock
advanced Task Killer
How can I stop this??? Surely this is taking up my battery??
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
if its not active or updating it is not eating the battery power, it will only take small very small memory to reside in, and even with that, when any process is inactive for along time and if Android needs memory, it will not hesitate to take it (the memory) away from that inactive process.
irkan said:
if its not active or updating it is not eating the battery power, it will only take small very small memory to reside in, and even with that, when any process is inactive for along time and if Android needs memory, it will not hesitate to take it (the memory) away from that inactive process.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Hello, thank you for that. After reading the article you posted I was not sure if it was for all apps.
I have deleted my ATK and lets see how it goes .... because my battery life was pretty poor before!
Also when you check your battery life is there any way to get the % rather than that big bar thing split into 10 bars?
Raminder1992 said:
Hello, thank you for that. After reading the article you posted I was not sure if it was for all apps.
I have deleted my ATK and lets see how it goes .... because my battery life was pretty poor before!
Also when you check your battery life is there any way to get the % rather than that big bar thing split into 10 bars?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
there is a Battery widget i believe, you can download it, and it will show you a percentage of the battery, not sure of the exact name though, check in the download widgets
Now that I've read more, and thinking back to all the arguements I read about Android and task killers, and it occured to me that every post that spoke about slowdown, it was based on knowledge from Android 1.x. I'm still trying to get some slowdown (due to memory) on my unit and haven't managed it yet.
So I'm curious now, has anyone experienced slowdown on an Android 2.x device? I'm guessing much much less, if any.
Cleargrey said:
Now that I've read more, and thinking back to all the arguements I read about Android and task killers, and it occured to me that every post that spoke about slowdown, it was based on knowledge from Android 1.x. I'm still trying to get some slowdown (due to memory) on my unit and haven't managed it yet.
So I'm curious now, has anyone experienced slowdown on an Android 2.x device? I'm guessing much much less, if any.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Only when the FM radio freaked out and started locking my phone up, other then that no slow downs.
I'm a long time Windows "expert" and as such have become a bit paranoid about closing rather than minimising apps. When I got my first Android phone I, like a lot of other windows people, immediately installed a task killer. I soon found it a mistake though. Battery life was definitely worse and applications took longer to load. It's very difficult for people with a Windows background to accept that Android works in a different way and that, providing the application is written property, suspended apps. are not using any appreciable resources.
If windows has been written better in the first place we would never have preceived it as a problem. I am still tempted to install a task killer but I keep telling myself "this is not Windows".
Check out my free app in the Marketplace: AppFinder
AppFinder is the fastest way to find apps by name bar none.
Start typing the name of an app or publisher, and the search results are shown instantly.
tap one of the results to go to the marketplace page for the app.
Check it out and let me know what you think
Been using it last couple days, its a big help! Thanks!!!
I'll check it out thanks!
Thank you - it's very fast like the marketplace search should be. Good for quick looking apps if you know the name.
Are there any improvements coming? Like the Top Downloads or anything else?
appfinder feedback
thanks for the feedback - I'm on it
Great app, thanks!
BTW I can't find HTC Hub...
I think you need an HTC device for that sorry buddy
zukа said:
I think you need an HTC device for that sorry buddy
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yeah but some guys were able to find it...
AppFinder
Ok, v1.1 has been submitted to the app marketplace and is ready for testing - should show up in the marketplace as an update within a few days
ebadger said:
Ok, v1.1 has been submitted to the app marketplace and is ready for testing - should show up in the marketplace as an update within a few days
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
does this fix the crash where it closed and wouldn't reopen for me (even after soft reset)?
I had to uninstall, reinstall to get it working again.
I don't think so.
Although I think I know the cause. I will have to roll the fix into another update.
I think there is a small window where the downloaded data file can be corrupted if the writing to flash is interrupted. It will be simple to fix. For now, if you hit it, uninstall reinstall is the only option.
nice find. but did you know while in maketplace you can use the search button to find apps as well?
jimecm said:
nice find. but did you know while in maketplace you can use the search button to find apps as well?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Of course I do
AppFinder is all about making apps discoverable in the fastest way possible.
I think if you're not in the top 20 apps in the marketplace under any one of the categories, then as a developer you're invisible. AppFinder seeks to make it easier to find apps via search, and with the update, via browsing as well.
Update is in the hopper, still waiting for testing to complete...
jimecm said:
nice find. but did you know while in maketplace you can use the search button to find apps as well?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
the annoying thing is that it searches music and video as well. i can't just search for apps alone
locales
Ok, so I just figured out I've only been indexing the en-US locale
I've updated the data to include
{ "en-US", "en-GB", "en-IE", "en-CA", "en-IN", "en-AU", "en-HK", "en-SG", "de-DE", "fr-FR", "fr-BE", "de-AT", "de-CH", "it-IT", "en-NZ", "es-ES", "es-MX" };
this change is effective immediately as it is a data update. Still waiting for the update to make it through the approval process. It seems that the holiday has slowed things down a bit
The update finally arrived
Nice new features and still very fast. But unfortunately, in my case, it wont load after the second app start (even at first start if I switch the section). I always have to deinstall/reinstall again once the app was started.
Maybe you can take a look? Feels like a caching problem or something like that. I'm using a Samsung Omnia 7 in germany - if that helps
Feature wishlist:
1. add a settings screen to edit:
a.) the number of list entries on one page (10, 20, 50) to keep the app fast enough
b.) the section on loading (and maybe you also can set this to no section just for fast look-up app search - I used the app for this before the update)
2. Maybe you can use the OS-typical "left-to-right-scrolling-loading-dots" instead of the big ones?
3. New logo if there is enough time
PrivateJoker said:
The update finally arrived
Nice new features and still very fast. But unfortunately, in my case, it wont load after the second app start (even at first start if I switch the section). I always have to deinstall/reinstall again once the app was started.
Maybe you can take a look? Feels like a caching problem or something like that. I'm using a Samsung Omnia 7 in germany - if that helps
Feature wishlist:
1. add a settings screen to edit:
a.) the number of list entries on one page (10, 20, 50) to keep the app fast enough
b.) the section on loading (and maybe you also can set this to no section just for fast look-up app search - I used the app for this before the update)
2. Maybe you can use the OS-typical "left-to-right-scrolling-loading-dots" instead of the big ones?
3. New logo if there is enough time
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Private Joker,
Thanks for the feedback.
First - there was a bug that only impacted the German locale! I was trying to save bandwidth by truncating unnecessary leading zeros in the price and this caused an exception when the locale was set to German. I've updated the data to include the leading zeros and this fixes the problem for Germans. You will have to uninstall and reinstall though to get it to work. I am very sorry for the inconvenience, and I really appreciate you taking the time to give me your feedback even though the app was not working for you at all. I hope you will try again given that the data has been fixed.
Regarding your feedback -
I think you are right on the mark for #2 and #3
I don't understand 2b.
regarding 1a.
perf should not be impacted by the number of items that are shown -
Appfinder actually transfers the marketplace data to the device and indexes it locally. I do this because the network is really, really slow. Aside from having artists and albums mixed up with apps in the marketplace search results, I also was tired of waiting for results to load. Scrolling through the apps means waiting.
The delay at the beginning is caused by reading the marketplace data from flash and indexing it in RAM. Occasionally the loading dots will appear after launching (like the first time that you use it) because AppFinder has transfered a new data file and needs to parse it again. Instead of delaying every 10 or so apps in the list, there is one delay at the beginning (which is relatively small). Right now parsing the file takes about 4 seconds.
Perf could be greatly improve if I had access to memory mapped file APIs. Further compressing the data would help as well - The really slowest part is really reading from the flash. I can improve perf when a network update occurs by reading from the flash in the background before blocking - this would drop the update delay from ~4 seconds to ~1 second.
I could also not query as you're typing -- Waiting until the enter button has been pressed would reduce CPU load and any chunkiness - pressing search would just render the apps instantly.
Anyway, really appreciate your positive attitude and willingness to give feedback in light of what must be a frustrating experience. Please give it another try.
Thanks,
Eric
Please, please for the love of god write a post, and sticky it, about what multitasking and background scheduling is, and why most apps shouldn't be allowed to run in the background. I'm so sick of reading about users complaining about "the lack of multitasking" (Eeeeew! Now I said it, and I feel dirty! :S ) when what they really want is the ability to run annoying programs in the background that will allow them to complain about the poor battery life, how WP7 raped them economically etc etc...because they really don't know what they want.
Please? Pretty please with sugar on top?
tiwas said:
I'm so sick of reading about users complaining about "the lack of multitasking" ... when what they really want is the ability to run annoying programs in the background that will allow them to complain about the poor battery life, how WP7 raped them economically etc etc
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Most users?!
Most people want the ablility to continue being navigated to their destination while listening to streaming music (not thru Zune as their region does not allow it - like yours) or check their email or even make a phone-call to say they'll be late.
Or perhaps they want an Exchange task manager that will actually remind you of your tasks without having to keep the app open at all times, or maybe they would like their phone to automatically change "profiles" at certain times of the day (ie., very simplified; 8-12 ringer on, 12-13 on silent except certain numbers, 13-18 all on, 18-23 same as lunch, 23-8 all silent apart from alarms).
These are all, relatively common, things you cannot do without real multitasking.
PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE! stop calling that multi-tasking! It's background scheduling!
And, yeah, I see your point, but apps like that should have special authorization to ensure they're not spinning in the background stealing processor cycles, downloading data, draining the battery etc...
tiwas said:
PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE! stop calling that multi-tasking! It's background scheduling!
And, yeah, I see your point, but apps like that should have special authorization to ensure they're not spinning in the background stealing processor cycles, downloading data, draining the battery etc...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Well, no. The examples I gave were a mixture of actual multitasking and scheduling. Some could do with a simple "register this event for execution at this time" but others really do need the full app running in the background at "all" times.
I definitely agree though, not every Tom **** and Harry should be allowed to write fully multitasking apps - or rather, they should be allowed to, but their release in the marketplace should be limited to those certified by Microsoft. I.e., what I'm saying is that the OS should have been fully prepared for multitasking from the getgo, with developers having to use technical exceptions during app certification to be published. As is, I very much doubt we'll see multitasking until the first major update which will likely come hand in hand with much higher HW specs to make sure the OS is still silky smooth.
Running the app in the background at all times is still background scheduling...Multitasking is, in all fairness, what the OS uses to run threads in the background, but multitasking is fully supported by the OS. It's the lack of subscribing to background scheduling events that's causing "the problems".
At least we agree about letting everybody schedule whatever they feel like is a bad idea, and hopefully, at some point, MS will let developers use "advanced functions" that require "advanced testing" before letting them into marketplace. All the bits and pieces seem to be there, though, as OEMs can make background apps...
WP7 cannot multi-task at all, and attempting to infer that it does with garbage semantics is pretty lame.
How about the mods sticky a thread on users who don't know what they're talking about attempting to force their own lexicon on the rest of us and attempting to appear so intelligent and above us unintelligent sheep.
Thank you for showing us the light....
What some of us actually want out of WP7 is an actual ability to run more than one freaking application at once. Does that spell it out for you?
If I am using a 3rd party podcast app because the zune one sucks, I want to be able to then check my damn email without my podcast cutting out. If I am playing a game and I get a text, I want to be able to respond without having to reload the entire game.
Call this whatever the hell you want to call it, but WP7 cannot do it, Android and iOS can.
Get off your high horse and help development instead of attempting to condescend on the rest of us.
lol what a stupid post. It's 2011 and we can't have the ability for multiple applications to run at once? what is this world coming to.. and asking for a sticky because you *THINK* multitasking = slow apps? I got news for you, it's a discussion forum, if you don't like it don't read the thread.
orangekid said:
WP7 cannot multi-task at all, and attempting to infer that it does with garbage semantics is pretty lame.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Oh...want me to tell my programs to stop running more than one thread, then?
And what are you calling "bull**** semantics"?
1. The OS can multitask, and it allows special applications to run in the background (scheduling). Proof: you can listen to music while surfing the web, and accept calls while checking the calendar. Of COURSE it can multitask!
2. Programs can multitask. I can asynchronously call a web service and do stuff while I wait. I can also display a wait animation while processing stuff
So please try to keep your mouth closed when you have no idea what you're talking about.
Besides Microsoft stuff there is absolutely no multitasking. Is that better?
tiwas said:
Oh...want me to tell my programs to stop running more than one thread, then?
And what are you calling "bull**** semantics"?
1. The OS can multitask, and it allows special applications to run in the background (scheduling). Proof: you can listen to music while surfing the web, and accept calls while checking the calendar. Of COURSE it can multitask!
2. Programs can multitask. I can asynchronously call a web service and do stuff while I wait. I can also display a wait animation while processing stuff
So please try to keep your mouth closed when you have no idea what you're talking about.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
once again you prove that you have no idea what you're talking about. Being able to launch a couple of crappy MS apps and then open IE is not multi-tasking in any practical form. What you reference is about the only time it can background anything.
What if I want to use a non-MS app that does not suck and do anything else? Not going to happen. This is a real issue. I cannot use any other music player or podcast player or music streaming app and open IE or text or email or anything, I cannot text or email while playing a game if I don't want the game to reload.
Claiming that WP7 can multi-task is like saying it has a comparable app store to iOS, it's complete garbage.
vetvito said:
Besides Microsoft stuff there is absolutely no multitasking. Is that better?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
lol, beat me to it, and more concise
Yes, it actually IS! Now we don't have all the problems from WM6.5, which is proof that even professional developers have problems setting up their programs correctly.
And still - it's called scheduling.
Multi-tasking (which even an old 8086 can do): http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Computer_multitasking
Multi-threading: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Multithreading_(computer_architecture)
Scheduling: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scheduling_(computing)
Now PLEASE read and understand...
orangekid said:
once again you prove that you have no idea what you're talking about. Being able to launch a couple of crappy MS apps and then open IE is not multi-tasking in any practical form. What you reference is about the only time it can background anything.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
FFS! You're just proving you have no reading comprehension. I'm talking about threads in a program, not tombstoning an app.
orangekid said:
What if I want to use a non-MS app that does not suck and do anything else? Not going to happen. This is a real issue. I cannot use any other music player or podcast player or music streaming app and open IE or text or email or anything, I cannot text or email while playing a game if I don't want the game to reload.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Why do you think that? We're on a beta OS, and MS is still ironing things out. The OS *can* multitask, they're just not exposing it to 3rd party developers (yet), which I think is an excellent idea.
orangekid said:
Claiming that WP7 can multi-task is like saying it has a comparable app store to iOS, it's complete garbage.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
For crying out loud. Now you're literally comparing apples to oranges, and you're not even able to see in how many ways the comparison fails.
Go read up on the links I posted, then TRY to control your adhd while reading my initial post. Then I *might* consider your postings anything but a complete waste of perfectly good bits...
wrong again, my friend.
If the OS "can" multi-task but only does it to the crapware that comes on the phone, then it essentially can't multi-task.
And the OS would have to be modified to to be able to actually multi-task and not just keep playing zune when you press the home key.
Once again you're trying to play the semantics game bill clinton...
when people here say they want multi-tasking, they are talking about apps that actually matter, third freaking party apps, and the OS cannot do it, this is a problem to a lot of users.
I don't care if the OS is in beta stage, are you saying we should wait 5 years to buy a WP7 phone?
This is quality - good we can have a constructive discussion! LOL.
For me the point is the phone doesn't do what I want it to, Android and the iPhone do appear to so if we can get Multi-schedule-task-switching like the other OS's in the next update I'll be happy.
Maybe those who can't help but get too excited by terminology could spend some time writing an app that replaces offending words to their preferred alternatives when viewing the forums?
orangekid said:
...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Man, you're stupid. From what you're saying, I can call you an illiterate just because you choose not to read what people write. I can, like I just did, call you stupid because you choose not to think (at least I hope it's a choice).
It's there. MS can let anyone they chose access it. You're not on the list. More companies might get on it eventually, but until then it's special access. That does NOT mean the OS cannot multitask or schedule.
But...since you don't even know the difference between multitasking, multithreading, and scheduling and the effects they have in a program or a program launching other programs (like an OS) you really should just stay quiet. You might learn something...
gc48067 said:
This is quality - good we can have a constructive discussion! LOL.
For me the point is the phone doesn't do what I want it to, Android and the iPhone do appear to so if we can get Multi-schedule-task-switching like the other OS's in the next update I'll be happy.
Maybe those who can't help but get too excited by terminology could spend some time writing an app that replaces offending words to their preferred alternatives when viewing the forums?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Well, I wasn't the one who grabbed the ball and ran with it Forrest Gump style. I wanted to get the facts about multitasking/scheduling out so people could start asking the right questions instead of asking questions that doesn't make sense because they're plain wrong.
I *do* see the point in getting scheduling, and I would love to have some hand picked scheduling programs myself. Most programs don't use it, but some do - like streaming. There should be a stringent verification process and it shouldn't be available to everyone.
Like Mr Moron pointed out, he wanted his apps to tombstone correctly so he could continue from where he left off (sorry, orangekid, but you *are* stupid). That is a clear example of when NOT to run a program in the background. He's angry at MS because the game developers doesn't tombstone correctly so he can continue from where he left off. That's the *exact* reason why I don't want everybody to have access to background scheduling, as people would start yelling at MS for all the crashes and Samsung for making phones with crappy battery life - even though the fault is somewhere else.
Regarding the app you're talking about, you want me to use regular expressions to transform sentences like "orangekid, you're an f-ing ass-O" to "orangekid, you're an f-ing donkey-hole"? (sorry...couldn't help myself )
gc48067 said:
This is quality - good we can have a constructive discussion! LOL.
For me the point is the phone doesn't do what I want it to, Android and the iPhone do appear to so if we can get Multi-schedule-task-switching like the other OS's in the next update I'll be happy.
Maybe those who can't help but get too excited by terminology could spend some time writing an app that replaces offending words to their preferred alternatives when viewing the forums?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Good points.
@tiwas, your original point is for people not to think that WP7 cannot mulit-task because it can run only Zune in the background. You then attempt to refine and back up your point by claiming multi-threading and scheduling and all this garbage, when it has been pointed out that when people in this forum say they want multi-tasking, they basically want to run an app other than Zune and continue the app running while doing other things, which WP7 cannot do, yet iOS and Android can.
Throw all the terminology you want into the mix and the above still holds true.
Your "urgent request" will not be considered by any mods because they have not been smoking crack today as far as I know.
tiwas said:
Regarding the app you're talking about, you want me to use regular expressions to transform sentences like "orangekid, you're an f-ing ass-O" to "orangekid, you're an f-ing donkey-hole"? (sorry...couldn't help myself )
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paragon of eloquence. simply amazing.
orangekid said:
Good points.
@tiwas, your original point is for people not to think that WP7 cannot mulit-task because it can run only Zune in the background. You then attempt to refine and back up your point by claiming multi-threading and scheduling and all this garbage, when it has been pointed out that when people in this forum say they want multi-tasking, they basically want to run an app other than Zune and continue the app running while doing other things, which WP7 cannot do, yet iOS and Android can.
Throw all the terminology you want into the mix and the above still holds true.
Your "urgent request" will not be considered by any mods because they have not been smoking crack today as far as I know.
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You're a moron. Even more, you're a moron who cannot read.
tiwas said:
You're a moron. Even more, you're a moron who cannot read.
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Click to collapse
when one cannot reason with logic they can be counted upon to resort to imbecilic and puerile insults.
Furthermore, my moronism and illiteracy are the byproducts of having to read posts such as the one quoted above which studies have shown reduce the general intelligence quotient of forum readers by an estimated 20%.
I've had my WP7 device for a couple of weeks now. I really gotta know, where are these 25,000 apps that are supposed to be in the marketplace? I've been through most of the categories through the Zune SW and, while there might be a couple of thousand apps, I really just don't see any way it could be even close to 25,000 apps.
Am I looking in the wrong place? Are a bunch of them hidden away waiting for Mango before they show up?
Me neither... I think its a lie... In some categories I scroll down as much as I can and get to the very end of it.. Like in business category .. And stil the most I think it would be was 500 under that to be highly optimistic and a generous margin of error in counting... Considering their is no more than like 12 categories I don't know from where they have this 25ooo figure... Even if w include all the spam apps like books ...
On side note, i Hate how MP has died for last two months. Even the 'featured' and recommended apps are absolutely ****. Just downpaded this app 'vivino' last night because it ws 'Featured and it gave a sticky icon on my program list linking me to vivino website.. They call this app..?
Sent from my OMNIA7 using XDA Windows Phone 7 App
Of course you're only seeing Worldwide and US released apps. There are others which won't have been released to the US.
Though I wouldn't have thought those specific apps would have made a huge contribution to the total apps.
EDIT... I couldn't find stats for regional releases but I did find that 24% of apps in the Marketplace are not in the English language...
http://www.windowsphoneapplist.com/stats/
Of course they may still have been released Worldwide or in the US, but I imagine a fair few of those won't have been.
http://wp7applist.com/stats/
I think this is one of the flaws in the Zune desktop software. It doesn't appear to show everything when you use the category lists. It ends up only showing the "most popular" or "most recent". For everything else you end up having to search for things by name or keyword. But if you don't already [/b] know[/b] the name or the developer didn't provide a decent keyword list, you may never find it.
I've found that several of the online app list sites are much better, and you can use their Zune links to purchase/install the apps you want, once you do find them.
RoboDad said:
I think this is one of the flaws in the Zune desktop software. It doesn't appear to show everything when you use the category lists. It ends up only showing the "most popular" or "most recent". For everything else you end up having to search for things by name or keyword. But if you don't already [/b] know[/b] the name or the developer didn't provide a decent keyword list, you may never find it.
I've found that several of the online app list sites are much better, and you can use their Zune links to purchase/install the apps you want, once you do find them.
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Do you have links to any of them? I like to be able to browse because sometimes (often) I will find an app I didn't even know I needed. I think MS was taking their cue from Apple on this matter too. It's incredibly hard to find anything but the most recent or most popular apps in the iTunes App Store.
The two sites I use most often are http://wp7applist.com/ and http://www.windowsphoneapplist.com/.
Both are very good, although the web server at wp7applist tends to be very slow sometimes. But they do have a killer app available (there's a link to it on the site) that makes most of the site's features available directly on your phone. It is an awesome app, but unfortunately suffers from the same occasional speed issue as their site, since it pulls app data from the same server.
Purple11 said:
Me neither... I think its a lie...
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Not even a remote chance it's a lie. Do you know how screwed MS would be if they did that? Anyways people posted links that will help you find apps. I admit Marketplace needs a little help in making apps easier to find. Even when I know the name of something I am not always presented with it when doing a search.
apps really aren't a big deal as alot of things can be done without having to launch an app, and as such I don't really have that many apps on my phone I have enough to trigger the jumplist but that's pretty much it.
Avatar28 said:
I've had my WP7 device for a couple of weeks now. I really gotta know, where are these 25,000 apps that are supposed to be in the marketplace? I've been through most of the categories through the Zune SW and, while there might be a couple of thousand apps, I really just don't see any way it could be even close to 25,000 apps.
Am I looking in the wrong place? Are a bunch of them hidden away waiting for Mango before they show up?
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Click to collapse
Purple11 said:
Me neither... I think its a lie... In some categories I scroll down as much as I can and get to the very end of it.. Like in business category .. And stil the most I think it would be was 500 under that to be highly optimistic and a generous margin of error in counting... Considering their is no more than like 12 categories I don't know from where they have this 25ooo figure... Even if w include all the spam apps like books ...
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Click to collapse
So what ??? You are not seeing them and its a lie ??? You are the smart one that expose MS lies ???
Come'n boy...If you dont know just ask ..Dont make bold statements like this
There are more that 28.000 and if you Know how to search m8 you will find them ...
Learn fisrt how to search and then post threads with bold titles like yours...
I just get angry with ppl like you !!!!
First, let me explain my frustation:
I just cant deal the idea that MS screwed WP7 so badly when it comes about multitask. I cant have a decent chat with my friends in WhatsApp because when I leave the app and someone talk to me, I cant touch the Toast Notification because it will take about 5 seconds to reload the whole app. However, I could "just" hold back button and select the app with a choppy image in the card view to instant resume (which will take me 3~5 seconds too).
So, Microsoft hates multitask or what?
What I want: a hack, a registry edit that makes opening a Toast Notification or a Tile to resume the instance and bring me the app instantly.
If you can make this really works, I pay you $150 USD. And I mean it.
mikeeam said:
First, let me explain my frustation:
I just cant deal the idea that MS screwed WP7 so badly when it comes about multitask. I cant have a decent chat with my friends in WhatsApp because when I leave the app and someone talk to me, I cant touch the Toast Notification because it will take about 5 seconds to reload the whole app. However, I could "just" hold back button and select the app with a choppy image in the card view to instant resume (which will take me 3~5 seconds too).
So, Microsoft hates multitask or what?
What I want: a hack, a registry edit that makes opening a Toast Notification or a Tile to resume the instance and bring me the app instantly.
If you can make this really works, I pay you $150 USD. And I mean it.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Thanks. You can send it over to me via Paypal.
No seriously. If you are interop unlocked just disable Dehydration with any registry Editor! It sits over at HKLM\Software\Microsoft\TaskHost\DehydrateOnPause. If you set that to 0, its faster with switching
It dont work when you open the app using the notification or tiles.. just using back button too.
Microsoft hasn't done anything to multitasking, just wait for WhatsApp to release a mango update that can handle the multitasking. I don't know if you noticed, but WhatsApp is lacking a ton of features. The developers just wanted to push out a release, they will fix it eventually. You must be patient.
Diablosblizz said:
Microsoft hasn't done anything to multitasking, just wait for WhatsApp to release a mango update that can handle the multitasking. I don't know if you noticed, but WhatsApp is lacking a ton of features. The developers just wanted to push out a release, they will fix it eventually. You must be patient.
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Click to collapse
Actually, WhatsApp is mango compatible. So are Wonder Reader, and many others. Every app has this problem. Gchat, Evernote and others.
At first I thought it was developer's choice. But it is the system.
The reason for this is quite simple:
A Toast has a deep link to the app, and therefore starts a new instance of the app.
I guess they didn't think about it, that this would be a problem. Or possible there are some issues in how developers had to change their apps.
So, sorry, I don't think you can change this at the moment (easily).
As a side note: AFAIK each app can specify to NOT launch a new instance when it is started and is already running. Though I think that is an option that is not allowed for custom apps. But I'm not sure about that and if so, maybe it will change some day...
Hades32 said:
The reason for this is quite simple:
A Toast has a deep link to the app, and therefore starts a new instance of the app.
I guess they didn't think about it, that this would be a problem. Or possible there are some issues in how developers had to change their apps.
So, sorry, I don't think you can change this at the moment (easily).
As a side note: AFAIK each app can specify to NOT launch a new instance when it is started and is already running. Though I think that is an option that is not allowed for custom apps. But I'm not sure about that and if so, maybe it will change some day...
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Ok, but why not resume when opening through tiles? And deep link is optional. So reload when it's deep link and resume when its not. Makes sense, I guess.
Either way, I want it to resume whenever I open the app.
Hope someone can find a solution to this problem.
mikeeam said:
Actually, WhatsApp is mango compatible. So are Wonder Reader, and many others. Every app has this problem. Gchat, Evernote and others.
At first I thought it was developer's choice. But it is the system.
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Click to collapse
I think I understand what you are talking about, once you click to open the application through a tile it reloads the application? To me, that makes sense. Quite frankly, I believe the iPhone behaves this way as well. You're telling the system to reload the application, so I guess if you look at it this way it could be considered a design flaw. However, I feel that this is how it should work.
I don't mean to troll or anything, but here's how I see it: If I go off and do something else on my phone and then hours later return to the application, I don't want that application to be stored into memory for hours on end, that will kill the battery.
I do agree with you entirely that toasts should resume the application, not reload it like you've stated. However, I haven't run into this issue so for me it doesn't bother me. It could be possible that it gets patched in the next update. Perhaps add a suggestion to the WP7 suggestion board.
Diablosblizz said:
I think I understand what you are talking about, once you click to open the application through a tile it reloads the application? To me, that makes sense. Quite frankly, I believe the iPhone behaves this way as well. You're telling the system to reload the application, so I guess if you look at it this way it could be considered a design flaw. However, I feel that this is how it should work.
I don't mean to troll or anything, but here's how I see it: If I go off and do something else on my phone and then hours later return to the application, I don't want that application to be stored into memory for hours on end, that will kill the battery.
I do agree with you entirely that toasts should resume the application, not reload it like you've stated. However, I haven't run into this issue so for me it doesn't bother me. It could be possible that it gets patched in the next update. Perhaps add a suggestion to the WP7 suggestion board.
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Click to collapse
The problem is, the next update should happen 5~6 months from now. If they change it, wouldnt be in a minor patch.
I understand your point, but hey, not hours after, maybe it could have a time limit to stay on memory. Like.. 30 minutes without using it, the OS kills the app. The only thing the OS is killing right now is me.
Not that I want one iPhone, but since you mentioned, iPhone resumes the app. Doesnt matter if you use the fast switch or the app icon to launch it. It just kill the app when you close it on fast switch menu.
This is the biggest issue by far in Windows Phone! The multitasking is extremely confusing.
I tried to explain it here: http://windowsphone.uservoice.com/f...285744-change-or-fix-the-back-button-concept-
but couldn't explain it really well.
Please, someone make a detailed suggestion of this on Windows Phone Uservoice (http://windowsphone.uservoice.com/forums/101801-feature-suggestions) !
You will get 3 votes from me.
I wonder if Resumable XAP works for this application...
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=1136330
singularityduo said:
This is the biggest issue by far in Windows Phone! The multitasking is extremely confusing.
I tried to explain it here: http://windowsphone.uservoice.com/f...285744-change-or-fix-the-back-button-concept-
but couldn't explain it really well.
Please, someone make a detailed suggestion of this on Windows Phone Uservoice (http://windowsphone.uservoice.com/forums/101801-feature-suggestions) !
You will get 3 votes from me.
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Click to collapse
It's not confusing. I understand it very well. It just works when you use the back button. If you dont use it, so you are reopening the app (when it is about third party apps).
Lumic said:
I wonder if Resumable XAP works for this application...
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=1136330
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Click to collapse
It didnt work for me.
Diablosblizz said:
I don't mean to troll or anything, but here's how I see it: If I go off and do something else on my phone and then hours later return to the application, I don't want that application to be stored into memory for hours on end, that will kill the battery.
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Click to collapse
But it doesn't kill your battery. Having the app in memory uses no more battery that not having it there. Also, the app IS stored in memory for all those hours on end as long as it's within the 5-app count.
WP does NOT do third-party multitasking, it does fast-app-switching. This means the app cannot perform any work in the background, hence it's not using any more battery.
I actually agree with the OP - if the app is already loaded it should be resumed. The OS is fully capable of doing so, they've [MS] just decided to not offer it to third-party devs.
emigrating said:
I actually agree with the OP - if the app is already loaded it should be resumed. The OS is fully capable of doing so, they've [MS] just decided to not offer it to third-party devs.
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Yeap, and why not implement? I mean.. what damages would it do? The system would be faster, without lots of loadings.
The titlet of the topic remain. I still pay for someone fix this dumb decision from MS.
emigrating said:
WP does NOT do third-party multitasking, it does fast-app-switching.
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This.
Probably the most disappointing thing about Mango.
The only phone that does true multitasking is the Nokia N900 and N9. Everything runs in the background just like a PC.
But there is no Whatsapp or anything similar. N9 only has Skype, Facebook Chat, Gtalk and SIP for chatting so far. (N900 has more but still no Whatsapp)
I also got really annoyed with my Omnia 7 and Whatsapp. It takes too long to load everytime.
I think Kik was a little better however. So I've been using Kik instead. (it's better of the 2 on WP7 so far)
Originally Posted by Lumic
I wonder if Resumable XAP works for this application...
http://forum.xda-developers.com/show....php?t=1136330
It didnt work for me.
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That was what I talked about earlier. Somewhat surprising that it doesn't work. But then I guess it is really not possible. As this is a quite fundamental change this means you probably have to wait until Tango or Apollo. Sorry.
jakiman said:
The only phone that does true multitasking is the Nokia N900 and N9. Everything runs in the background just like a PC.
But there is no Whatsapp or anything similar. N9 only has Skype, Facebook Chat, Gtalk and SIP for chatting so far. (N900 has more but still no Whatsapp)
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Click to collapse
It might be true but win 6.5 was true multitasking before Ihonne,N900...Try an HD2 and see for yourself...true task manager also...
I recently helped a friend to flash back to stock his HD2, I wonder how come for a pair on new shoes Microsoft had to learn how to walk again, ups I meant they are learning how to stand up-walking later, it seems...
You could try this;
Resumable XAP Tool v0.1 Release
I would think you could take that method to edit an already installed app to do it. With a file explorer, browse to the installation directory & find the file, "WMAppManifest.xml." Copy it out to your PC & edit it. Find the line, "<DefaultTask Name="_default" NavigationPage="PivotPage.xaml" />" & add "ActivationPolicy="Resume"" to it so it looks like this, "<DefaultTask Name="_default" NavigationPage="PivotPage.xaml" ActivationPolicy="Resume"/>." Now copy it back into the installation folder of your device & reboot. See if that works.
drkfngthdragnlrd said:
You could try this;
Resumable XAP Tool v0.1 Release
I would think you could take that method to edit an already installed app to do it. With a file explorer, browse to the installation directory & find the file, "WMAppManifest.xml." Copy it out to your PC & edit it. Find the line, "<DefaultTask Name="_default" NavigationPage="PivotPage.xaml" />" & add "ActivationPolicy="Resume"" to it so it looks like this, "<DefaultTask Name="_default" NavigationPage="PivotPage.xaml" ActivationPolicy="Resume"/>." Now copy it back into the installation folder of your device & reboot. See if that works.
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Click to collapse
No lucky here. Frustating.