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"Development and Hacking" forum grown and the topics are kinda mixed up.. eg: ROM development tools mixed with Themes, "ported/hacked" Applications, user-made apps, etc etc.
I think that this area should be divised. It's hard to seek a topic. Maybe one is interested in ROM tools (eg: NBHextract, XIP port, dumprom, etc,etc), maybe someone in ported applications (omnia touchwizz interface, asus glide, xperia panels, xperia camera, htc album, etc), maybe others in development resoruces.. and maybe others in applications made by xda-developers.
So, one sugestion is to split create one new category Development and Hacking wich contains the following sub-forums:
- ROM Development Tools
- Homescreen Plugins (Manilla, TouchWizz, Asus Glide, BatteryMetter, etc)
- Ported Applications
- xda-dev Applications
- xda-dev Games
- Applications Hacking (?)
- Development Resources & Tips & Tricks
The name of the forums may not be the same.. also, other sub-forums may be added.. This is just a suggestion. This forum really contains valuable information but it must be more organized.
Regards
i would have to disagree myself. i think the section is fine the way it is (all the question threads removed ) If you know what you are after then you just need to search. I think splitting things up willo nly result in more confusion on the common user's part (not knowing where top ost with so many options) and further more this is a development website, not a cache of programs like a freeware website. Whats being developed at the moment will be on top, everything else will fade out behind but still accesible if you know what you are looking for.
First, sorry if the original version of this comes off the wrong way, I just noticed it might read a little snotty...especially since I started typing it before joel2009's post, but it as posted up later it reads like I'm arguing.
joel2009 said:
I think splitting things up will only result in more confusion on the common user's part (not knowing where to post with so many options) and further more this is a development website, not a cache of programs like a freeware website. Whats being developed at the moment will be on top, everything else will fade out behind but still accesible if you know what you are looking for.
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Click to collapse
The main problem I think is that there's so much traffic in that single spot that the list of threads marked "Today" stretches into the 5th page sometimes. I'm pretty sure a lot more gets lost and many good threads aren't seen at all. It's made worse by there being a couple of different forums listed under specific models of phone which are obviously resources for many others. Examples include:
Kaiser software, which has a lot of postings that apply to several other phones.
Raphael Software/Themes Apps and Software (Diamond), both of these basically cover the same thing. I've seen a number of people make requests or ask questions that are already resolved in the other thread.
The main D&H forum, even if you ignore the little groupings the OP had (i.e. xda releases vs. ported apps), is home to at least 3 very separate postings/releases; ROM Tools, Phone Apps, and Skins/Themes. For a "simple" user who's just trying to watch for themes and skins this is a lot of unnecessary noise. Imagine a Raphael or Diamond owner looking for applications, there's at least 4 groups to watch and 3 of them are kept under specific phones. A new diamond owner won't realize all the stuff they are missing. I think that's more confusing to new users.
My suggestion, to be taken worth it's digital equivalence to a grain of salt, is to break it up into ROM Tools, Apps (both ported and user-developed), Themes & Skins. I would also put them into a major category that would be consequently named Development and Hacking, and probably move the Networking and Upgrading groups over there as well.
I'd personally also like to see a single forum just dedicated to programming. It's pretty obvious that there's a good cross-section of members who are also programmers, some of which have demonstrated more talent than most other sites can boast. There's a lot of people trying to write programs but are rooting around a lot of other forums which aren't too suited to answer their questions. The other thing is that it might give more inspiration for some of the people who are good at UI and some people who are good with system/functional programming to talk to each other or even work together on apps. Many others have pointed it out, for a site to have 'developers' in the title, it's really strange that there's not even a little conversation about one of the main forms of development.
joel2009 information must be organized..
some things are contradictory in your post. you say "I think splitting things up willo nly result in more confusion on the common user's part" and "this is a development website". If it's a development website than the development area must be extended, not limited to one sub-forum that contains different kind of stuff.
Also, maybe some of us want to learn from other developers experience.. (see "Development Resources & Tips & Tricks" sub-forum)..
The way how it's in this moment create confusion not only for the developer but also for the regular users. Maybe some developers are interested only on ROM tools. Maybe some users are looking just ROM tools. It will be hard for all of us because this section of the site is constantly growing and contain all kind of stuff (themes, apps, tools, etc).
Organizing the information into sub-forums is A MUST.
+ you can add a new subforum for "Ideas for application" where people can post ideas for developers.
If detailed descriptions are used for each sub-forum there will be less to none confusion rate (additionally someone can write about these sections so everybody will understand..).
Just my humble opinion, but I think they fit well together. The difference is small between the two and it would just require me to check two boards to get the same info.
I say let's hold a vote.
DSF said:
"Development and Hacking" forum grown and the topics are kinda mixed up.. eg: ROM development tools mixed with Themes, "ported/hacked" Applications, user-made apps, etc etc.
I think that this area should be divised. It's hard to seek a topic. Maybe one is interested in ROM tools (eg: NBHextract, XIP port, dumprom, etc,etc), maybe someone in ported applications (omnia touchwizz interface, asus glide, xperia panels, xperia camera, htc album, etc), maybe others in development resoruces.. and maybe others in applications made by xda-developers.
So, one sugestion is to split create one new category Development and Hacking wich contains the following sub-forums:
- ROM Development Tools
- Homescreen Plugins (Manilla, TouchWizz, Asus Glide, BatteryMetter, etc)
- Ported Applications
- xda-dev Applications
- xda-dev Games
- Applications Hacking (?)
- Development Resources & Tips & Tricks
The name of the forums may not be the same.. also, other sub-forums may be added.. This is just a suggestion. This forum really contains valuable information but it must be more organized.
Regards
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I'v been thinking the same for a long time now.
Thats not contradictory at all. The Development and hacking section is for contributers, if you are contributing an app you are developing or in need of help dev, then that is what the section is for. Things start getting more complicated when you are trying to post your own work and there are several different sections you have to swarm though to find the appropriate one. I'm a fan of keep things simple.
If you are trying to follow a specific thread, then you can bookmark it or subscribe to it.
The main problem I think is that there's so much traffic in that single spot that the list of threads marked "Today" stretches into the 5th page sometimes. I'm pretty sure a lot more gets lost and many good threads aren't seen at all. It's made worse by there being a couple of different forums listed under specific models of phone which are obviously resources for many others.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
The list that is bold when you log on only shows the threads you have not read since the last time you viewed the page. If you are interested in reading everything than you will read on through them.
Here is an example, looking at you list of stuff:
- ROM Development Tools
- Homescreen Plugins (Manilla, TouchWizz, Asus Glide, BatteryMetter, etc)
- Ported Applications
- xda-dev Applications
- xda-dev Games
- Applications Hacking (?)
- Development Resources & Tips & Tricks
What if i ported a today plugin, then where would i put it?
This is just a small example but it illustrates my point that things can get messy upon where things go. Keeping one section keeps it simple and easy.
I understand both sides, but it seems that this point will be argued for a while longer, as it has been for the last few months.
I think the biggest problem is there are always themes coming out since newer apps are coming out with the ability to skin them. Personally, I would have to vote with the splitting of the two main sections since it is starting to grow a lot. On the other hand, they do fit together since a theme could be categorized as a "hack". But, the more and more the section grows, the harder it will be to find things. Considering all of the hard work and effort put into to these custom themes, a new section set for those who create the themes would be nice.
EDIT: lol DAMN! I thought the discussion was about themes and apps, my point still stands though.
joel2009 the list is just a suggestion - it may be modified.. What I wanted to underline is that the "Development and Hacking" forum is growing day by day, making harder to find interesting threads.
The faster you organize the information the better. If not, later the forum will grow so much that will be very hard to watch + the job to move the thousands of topics..
TheChampJT is right..
I think the real issue is that most users don't realize the amount of time it takes just to keep the forum as organized as it is. Splitting the hacking & development forum would require us to watch 7 threads instead of one, which honestly is a pretty full job in and of itself at this point.
Joel does a good job of drawing attention to how confusing it will be for users wanting to post new information. I know it's really frustrating to certain users to have to read through a couple pages of threads to find the one they're looking for, but it really is the simplest solution.
I think one issues that has been side stepped is that there really aren't a lot of developers asking us to split this stuff up. It's easy enough, and simple enough for them to use, especially after all the great work done by the Q & A team to clean it up. I find it pretty easy to find what i'm looking for in the thread now.
I think the thing that would help more than anything to simplify things for users would be for all threads to adopt the proper naming of their threads. Then it would be easy to see what threads are themes, what are apps, what are games. Unfortunately, the application of proper naming is very inconsistent.
Ultimately I feel that splitting the forums would cause more confusion, more frustration, and more work, so at this point I think it best to leave things as they are until we come up with a better solution.
Going to keep my post very short, the way XDA is split up is to help users to which commonly end up posting in the wrong sections as it is, the more sections we have the more confusion of posters, then we have the mods who have a hard enough time as it is trying to sift out the "wrong posters" so what was my point again? Lets keep things simple so simple peeps don't post in the wrong sections and the mods don't get over worked for there voluntary position
Hi Mods,
Am I the only one who find "Development and Hacking" hard to browse?
Is it perhaps possible to create sub sections in this thread? Like all those
WM 6.5 and later Wm 7.x topics? Only of interest if you use those OSes.
Perhaps also sections for Today Plugins by type: manilla etc etc.
Just my two cents.
Cheers
I would make subforums for: Games, Apps, UIs etc. Most of the apps for 6.1 are compatible with 6.5 and vice versa, so imo there's no need for making such sections
Kamill said:
I would make subforums for: Games, Apps, UIs etc. Most of the apps for 6.1 are compatible with 6.5 and vice versa, so imo there's no need for making such sections
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
agreed, especially skins...they sometimes crowd the first page and hide the interesting stuff back a dozen pages.
but it would also be benificial if you could toggle on or off certain topics at the top of the board
This was mentioned on the blackstone forum - I commented there that it would be good to see sub-categories for resolutions so questions specific to WVGA (for example) would more likely be found by another WVGA user and hopefully answered (titanium apps are a good example of this).
There is a lot of us on here these days with a lot of different models which is what makes this community so great but some more granularity would surely assist us in looking for help and where possible, help others.
I voted yes but "no" and "fine as it is" are the same answer are they not????
Yep you are very right My fault. Did it a bit too quick. But cannot change it anymore.
Yeah I agree with the Games/Skins/Apps/Drivers.../Ideas/ etc.. Its hard to find what you need when the good stuff can be pushed back 4 or 5+ pages by skins/themes or stuff you already have.
by reolution..
unowho said:
This was mentioned on the blackstone forum - I commented there that it would be good to see sub-categories for resolutions so questions specific to WVGA (for example) would more likely be found by another WVGA user and hopefully answered (titanium apps are a good example of this).
There is a lot of us on here these days with a lot of different models which is what makes this community so great but some more granularity would surely assist us in looking for help and where possible, help others.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I agree...
the best way would be..
1.WVGA
2.VGA
3.QVGA
4. all resolutions..
5. and so on....
i think games and apps and wat not might get muddled...
resolutions is the way to go
Thread Moved to : About xda-developers.com Forum
please yes. that section is an absolute mess. organizing by resolution or better yet, type of software would be fantastic.
"No" and "Fine as it is" is the same answer
And I also say "no" , because it's a development Forum - and it's a need to think outside the box. If we would have sections for Apps, Games or for Systems like 6.5 or Resolutions - some people never would look into and would know, which new Technologies or Ideas are available.
And for Developers (they are used to a search function) there are ideas at all the most important issue.
And have a look on other sides, where you see the "high gloss brochures" - which shows the free apps for WinMo with categories - in manner of AppStore from Apple - at the end you will find a link to xda-devs, to download or know more about the Apps
It's logical, that this poll will have as result, that there should be sub-categories for xda-devs - it's good for downloaders.
But for developers: They would oversee new ideas on other plattforms, the would get a tunnel vision on their own system.
And not so much ideas... would result in fewer Apps & Dwnloads. And so the people would have a nice overview (perhaps), but not so much cool ideas at all.
There are more than enough sides, which categorizes the Developers Apps here. But please leave us our "development environment" here - to see, with which people we could work together, to provide new Apps& Ideas... for everybody of us. What's up, if we would only develop for one resolution? And then we have to switch everything if we make multi-res? Senseless additional work for Developers... and especially too much work for the Mods.
It's better to work with Prefixes like "[App]" that makes a better overview. And Recommendations in the Sections of each device here.
And also to have as Downloader a possibility to think outside the box.
Micha
I have to disagree with you on at least one point.
This is from our home page...
But as our site grew we realised that lots of ordinary users were also suffering from a lack of support. They started using the xda-developers forum to communicate and before long the forum was as much a user forum as it was a developer forum.
The poll is certainly backing this up.
Now 281 reads but only 55 votes. Seems that a lot of visitors don't care.
@mods, can you please make it a sticky in Development and Hacking until the end of the poll?
Cheers
I find that looking though android roms is often a pain with this site I think there can be a lot of improvements to certain forms (for software, rom development etc) that will enable users to see content easier and find what they want.
1) Posts to a thread does not bump it. This will let you see the newest roms on top and stop necroposts
2) Devs can update their post (bump it) when they release a new version
3) Enable better filters that will sort out specific roms / versions. This will let you just find roms of one version number (ex 2.3.6 / 4.0.3 / JVS)
4) Allow better sorting, You can make sort filters with most views, most replies, highest voted, highest weighted voted, last posted date ...etc
---
Having an improved voting system would also help to know why people voted the way they did by leaving a comment or see the stats without needing to go into a post.
Any feedback would be great and I would like to thank everyone who has helped XDA become great.
You can bring up your concerns and suggestions on this thread.
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?p=22914429#post22914429
Sent from my Rocket in the Sky (SGH-i727) using XDA Premium.
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> Abstract: I have been consolidating a complete, monolithic, and community editable guide for all mobile devices, to reform how XDA Developers works. Take a look, and edit or give suggestions... (Perhaps merge this with XDA University?)
## Rationale
XDA Developers is one of the largest and most important sites to mobile device development. We know all that; we've been here for years. And after staying here for a long time, it's hard to imagine anything different from the status quo; nor why the "new guy" is so frustrated and confused.
Unfortunately, owing to our messy evolution, the guides for most devices on XDA are, (quite honestly, no offense), outdated and disorganized, divided among tons of threads and maintained by OPs who may or may not be active. The XDA Wiki was built on the premise of consolidating the info from the forum, but the tendency to link to forum posts rather than bring in the full methods has made it utterly redundant, and therefore rarely edited or trafficked.
The reality is, forums are great for development and asking questions, but they are the wrong place for constantly fluctuating guides that demand united community support. The result is the status quo on XDA; a ceberus of information difficult to organize or sift through, resulting in newbies constantly asking supposedly "obvious" questions about methods and issues long since solved.
The question is, is it the noob's fault for not trusting or reading such disorganization, or could it be that we aren't making it clear how to proceed safely?
## Design Specifications
To rectify this situation, I have been compiling the Android Development Codex, a complete, monolithic, and community editable guide to the any device I could get my hands on, taking users all the way from unlocking to customization.
The codex will also give readers a few tips and tricks for troubleshooting common problems (so they don't have to wade through 900 posts to find the answer), and general guides to cool mods that can be made on the phone. Perhaps we could even teach people to create modifications to keep the community going.
The Android Development Codex is based on eight principles:
* Everything must be in the guide. We need customized "beginning to end" guides that give the user everything it takes to mod a device and deal with problems afterwards. As stated above, the XDA Wiki failed because it only linked to the forum, making it no more useful than a forum sticky.
* Mark or fix outdated information ASAP. Outdated information is the biggest issue with the status quo on XDA; at best, it won't work, and the new guy will come crying to the forums. At worst, devices will be bricked, leading to intense mobs of angry noobs. With a monolithic guide, as soon as new developments occur, we can post it in the Codex as a warning to all, and change the method if needed.
* No redundant information. There could be thousands of devices by the time we get to a finished state, and much of that info is exactly the same. This leads to duplication of work, and eventually outdated info. Examples are things like ClockworkMod instructions, Glossaries, and general OS mods. The Codex should consolidate as many mods as possible into general guides, and for things like glossaries and recovery instructions, Mediawiki-style templates should be used to pull them in.
* One customized guide for every device family. Every device is special in some way. The XDA Developers Book is great, but even the most general of rooting guides cannot tackle the thousands of unique circumstances that exist in every device. Rooting, Unlocking, Downgrading, and other unique things are under this umbrella.
* Always provide a manual method. Automatic "one-click" roots are great, but manufacturers are always out to patch the latest method. If we don't know how to do it by hand, we can't really find much of a solution.
* Ensure that all required files are accessible and stay accessible. Eventually, all good things must come to an end, and when people are no longer around to sweep the grounds, link rot sets in. This is very, very bad; one of the archives could contain a vital rooting program, and there would be no way to recover it. Just remember the fall of Megaupload. Always have multiple mirrors for every file, and perhaps archive everything into the Internet Archive when the community is gone.
* Give all sources for methods included. Credit must be given where credit is due, not only in deference to the original authors, but also to give the methods credibility.
* The ultimate goal is to transform a layman into a developer. For most people nowadays, modding mobile phones is their gateway into the workings of the computers that control our lives today, just like home computers were in the 80s. The Codex needs to clearly show how anyone can become an XDA-Developer and participate as enlightened individuals, rather than as mere participants.
## The Monolithic Guide
The Android Development Codex is here.
Currently, only the HTC HD2 and the HTC Droid Incredible have functionally complete guides at the moment.
The entire thing is stored on Github Wiki, so you can edit it if you have a github account. Hopefully, developers will all be able to come together once and for all, and work on one big guide, rather than tons of small, redundant, and outdated ones.
## The Android Development Codex is unfinished! Why are you releasing it now?
Originally, I was going to keep the Android Development Codex as a surprise until all the guides for the devices I owned were complete. However, a new project called "XDA University" is being started with similar goals, so am prematurely releasing my work to the community and awaiting further developments.
If anyone here has a hand in creating the XDA University, please contact me, because I have some great ideas on how to make it work, not to mention tons of data for us to start with.
You have a PM
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