In short:
Is there a thread somewhere stating the pro's and con's of running Android from different types of "media" (SD, NAND, EXT2)?
If there is, please provide a link, I can't seem to find anything that isn't an unanswered question or small comments.
If there isn't, let this be a starting point for those looking for the answer to this question.
Longer:
I've seen this question pop up once and again but it might be that the topic is totally exhausted and people have stopped commenting on it. I can't seem to find an answer though; What are the pro's and con's of using NAND, EXT2, FAT32 or any combination of it?
I see a couple of installation alternatives and some I have been able to conclude myself but others not.
* Running from SD-card using HaRET
This option is the slowest in terms of Android performance. It has the added value of easily getting back to Windows Mobile by rebooting the phone, gaining easy access to the SD card and manipulation options.
* Running the system AND data on NAND
This option has in my view the fastest Android experience. Access to files on the SD card is a bit more cumbersome (there is the SD card split widget APK available but I have yet to see it working) and access to files for manipulation I can't comment on (haven't gotten to that yet).
* Running the system from NAND and data on EXT2
The performance seems almost as fast as the system+data on NAND. I have no idea about the added value of running anything from an EXT2-partition in the SD card but I'm guessing it will be slower. I have no idea if file access for manipulation is easier or not compared to the other options.
* Running the system AND data from EXT2
I have not tried this yet and cannot comment on it. Something tells me it will be slower than NAND because of SD card overhead.
* Running the system from EXT2 and data on NAND
I have not tried this yet and cannot comment on it.
Now, I've missed out on several of the installation options but I'll edit this post as soon as I get to investigating it further.
Any comments/experience/knowledge in this is greatly appreciated, as it can make things clearer as to what options to choose.
Well these are very good question and wanted to start a thread on this matter as well. I also could not find a strait answer anywhere.
I also want to know if there is an advantage using ext2 over fat32.
So, people out there having knowledge about this matter please share it.
Ext2 and Fat32 are both types of filesystem used on various different types of media, including SD card, Hard drives etc.
EXT2 is (one) of the native linux filesystems, and is fully supported in kernel, and is usually faster and more stable in that OS
FAT32 is the 32bit version of the old MSdos filesystem, used up to Windows 98, and still supported by windows machines, but slower and less stable than the native NTFS filesystem used by XP and above.
Nand is actually the type of flash ROM used by our devices, and not a filesystem as such, and running Android in Nand refers to where the information is stored, rather than the filesystem used to store it.
It's equally valid to say that we run WM in Nand also.
I think that in the case of Android EXT2 should be faster and more stable than fat32 since it's designed for Linux, and works better in that OS.
Zenity ik would like to thank you very much as this answers mij questions.
And i think this would many others aswell.
Don't forget - if you format your MicroSD to just EXT2 then you will make it very awkward to transfer files to/from the card on a Microsoft Windows based system.
This may, or may not be a problem for you.
Ultimately, the current ideal situation (IMHO) is to run your OS from NAND, and to store your data (music / movies / documents) on a FAT32 format MicroSD - as this enables you to swap the MicroSD card without turning off the device, and provides best cross-platform usability of the MicroSD for the purposes of transferring data to/from it.
Thank you all!
Thank you all for commenting! I will add your comments to the Android-wiki I'm building as this question could come back repeatedly from newcomers (and old ones who forgot )!
boli99 said:
Don't forget - if you format your MicroSD to just EXT2 then you will make it very awkward to transfer files to/from the card on a Microsoft Windows based system.
This may, or may not be a problem for you.
Ultimately, the current ideal situation (IMHO) is to run your OS from NAND, and to store your data (music / movies / documents) on a FAT32 format MicroSD - as this enables you to swap the MicroSD card without turning off the device, and provides best cross-platform usability of the MicroSD for the purposes of transferring data to/from it.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
There is a program for allowing the mounting of EXT2 file systems on windows, however they are not signed. This is more problematic in Windows that are 64bit. The program is called 'ext2fsd' and you can get it from source forge. EXT2 is a better file system, and does not have the 4GB file size limit, and does not fragment (although on a SD card, this should not be an issue). EXT2 also has file permissions that Linux understands. Fat32 has no Access control file permissions.
I have just recently got polymod's eclair running with both system and data on ext2 partitions.
my question is...
I am just wondering what the boot order is...
and where(if possible) can it be changed?
system.img in the andboot folder VS system on partition.
I know it can be set in the installer. but lets say I had installed system on ext2 partition. and then later placed a system.img in the andboot folder.
can I swap between the two?
OK...
I figured it out myself,
You can use the installer to select boot options (Not just options to install)
so I have a system and data on partitons. (currently using)
and I also have a second build installed to .img files in the andboot folder. (for failsafe backup)
if I want to swap from one into the other
I enter installer and change the settings for the system and data to
their respective locations and then just QUIT.
I also still have a donut build in the android folder. as well as still running winmo.
quad boot system on my phone...LOL
Now thats a neat use of the installer, I think this find deserves it's own thread in fact, I'm certain others will find it useful
Tanks !
binlabin said:
* Running the system from NAND and data on EXT2
The performance seems almost as fast as the system+data on NAND. I have no idea about the added value of running anything from an EXT2-partition in the SD card but I'm guessing it will be slower. I have no idea if file access for manipulation is easier or not compared to the other options.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I've done some tries with this doing the partitioning from within android and then formatting the FAT32 partition from Windows 7 but the FAT32 partition doesn't work very well afterward. Really slow and sometimes crashes the explorer. Propably something to do with my SD-card. May try doing the partitioning and formatting from Linux to see if it works better.
Seems to me the main advantage of this option is to increase the size of available data storage which i suspect can become a limitation sooner or later in a pure NAND install.
EDIT: Now I've done it and gone NAND-System + EXT2-Data... Partitioned the SD-card from Ubuntu with gparted. Resized the FAT32 partition and created 3 primary EXT2 partitions. only the second (partition 3) should be used though with the setup I am using. It's charging right now so I haven't tried it out much yet but I will later on. However I noticed that I now have 171Mb free phone storage instead of 30-something that I had before (same apps installed).
EDIT2: Ran gparted again and shrinked the unused partition (partition 2) and expanded the data partition (partition 3) so I now have 369Mb free "Internal phone storage". Haven't noticed any speed differences between this and when I had data on NAND.
nand
By then one question:
If im install android in the NAND is more fast ready? But this process erase WM6?
Because now android work good in my HTC TYNT II but the camera and bluetooth not work and have one or two performance problems and for this dont like delete WM6 of my phone, and for this im use Android from my SD.
But look the NAND option because have a problems with the time live of my battery only lasts 5hours with android and SD.
Thanks for your help and cooperation
excellent thread which answers some questions that I had. Thanks to everyone who contributed. The only question remaining though and I have posted this elsewhere without getting an answer:
I partitioned a 2 gb sdcard with ~1.6gb Fat32 and the rest as a single Ext2. I selected system on nand and data on ext2 in the installer. After installation, it does show alot more memory for data as compared to data on nand, BUT I also have a data.img in andboot which is in the Fat32 partition, with a size around 250mb. The question is, is the data in that file or on ext2? If I backup data from installer, it creates a databackup.img in andboot with the same size as data.img. Seems to me the ext2 partition is just taking up space and not being used. Can anyone more knowledgeable shed some light on this? Thanks.
Not quite sure what is going on there, seems very counter-intuitive, I would have assumed that system on Nand, data on EXT2 would have installed the data partition to EXT2 on SD. This would seem not to be the case in this instance.
There are a few experiments you could try, if you are brave enough, since you may cause problems by trying any of these suggestions, which could mean a reinstall, I leave it to your judgement how to proceed
Ok firstly I assume you have a card reader, since you managed to partition and format the SD card in the first place. Remove the SD card, insert in card reader, delete the andboot folder, or the contents of the folder, ( may be wise to have a spare SD with either a winmo or android install handy at this point, just in case things go horribly wrong ).
Now with the cleaned SD, put it in the phone and boot, it should boot fine, IF the data is truly on the EXT2 partition.
That at least will answer one question, namely, where the heck is my data?
If this works fine, then I'd just put it down to some inner weirdness of android on non-native devices, if it fails then I'm wondering if your EXT2 partition may have problems, forcing the phone to dump it on the first available good partition, namely the FAT32 one.
Oh and if it does fail, you will have to reinstall, since your data will be toast.
Finally, good luck, I await with interest
As I recall, the install has the FAT32/Ext2 options incorrectly swapped. It has been this way for a while.
zenity said:
Not quite sure what is going on there, seems very counter-intuitive, I would have assumed that system on Nand, data on EXT2 would have installed the data partition to EXT2 on SD. This would seem not to be the case in this instance.
There are a few experiments you could try, if you are brave enough, since you may cause problems by trying any of these suggestions, which could mean a reinstall, I leave it to your judgement how to proceed
Ok firstly I assume you have a card reader, since you managed to partition and format the SD card in the first place. Remove the SD card, insert in card reader, delete the andboot folder, or the contents of the folder, ( may be wise to have a spare SD with either a winmo or android install handy at this point, just in case things go horribly wrong ).
Now with the cleaned SD, put it in the phone and boot, it should boot fine, IF the data is truly on the EXT2 partition.
That at least will answer one question, namely, where the heck is my data?
If this works fine, then I'd just put it down to some inner weirdness of android on non-native devices, if it fails then I'm wondering if your EXT2 partition may have problems, forcing the phone to dump it on the first available good partition, namely the FAT32 one.
Oh and if it does fail, you will have to reinstall, since your data will be toast.
Finally, good luck, I await with interest
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Great idea, I'll try this on the weekend. I wont delete data though, I'll just rename andboot and backup data for good measure, because I want to be able to go back to the data by renaming it back if it doesn't work. I was also thinking if there is any way to get to the ext2 partition and read it... I'm on xp so I cant do it on my pc, and on the phone, I've looked around in astro n other file managers but cant see anything. But if the case is as golfnz34me points out, then I should just backup the data, and change the option to Fat32 in install and restore data. That should do the trick.
golfnz34me said:
As I recall, the install has the FAT32/Ext2 options incorrectly swapped. It has been this way for a while.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Thanks, will check this out. If its true, then great, more speed for my /data! I wonder how I missed this, been going through these forums regularly...
Ok I checked it out, and golfnz34me is correct it seems.
But now I found a new problem. I backed up data, and in the installer, set the data to SDCard, and tried to restore data. It gives various errors like
Code:
cannot determine filesystem size
failed
failed to format
...some other lines...
losetup: /dev/block/loop2: no such device or address
I created the partition with Paragon partition manager, and after getting this error I rechecked in PPM. I reformated the partition, but still get the error. In PPM the partition drive letter isnt assigned. Or, the partition isnt the active partition. Can one of those be the problem? The volume name is Ext2. Im not very experienced in partitioning etc, apart from normal ntfs partition for new hds in windows, so I didnt play with any options. I dont have a linux system either. Any got any ideas? Any help would be appreciated alot!
Not sure about using partition managers other than gparted, afaik most people are using the Gparted live cd if they don't have a linux install handy.
The errors all point to some sort of problem with the EXT2 partition, or it's formatting.
Also EXT2 partitions do not have drive letters, nor do they have to be active partitions.
Apps and data on SD card.
I cant seem to figure out how to make all the apps and other stuff install to the SD card. Do I have to partition the card into two partitions? or is there a way to install the system to Nand and make all the apps and data go to the SD card? Ive tried setting it to System on nand and data on SD partition but it says no partitions to install to or something.
So I have been playing with android builds for some time now.
I had successfully ran cupcake and donut builds using the HaRET on sdcard method.
(not every time was perfect but worked more times than not)
eclair has been very troublesome. with the introduction of the new installation method.
I have had limited success even getting it to install.
sometimes it would install without a hitch.
other times it wouldn't even get to the install screen.
SO HERE ARE MY FINDINGS.
while installing the latest polymod2.1g eclair build (actually with any version) I was watching the screen messages.
I know they are fast scrolling, but I can usually pic out errors.
I noticed almost every time I installed there were at least a few I/O errors of some kind.
and the times that I tried and didn't get any errors, the build would often install OK.
I obviously have either a crappy sdcard OR the phone is having problems writing to the sdcard.
either way is a problem, being that the new version of installing creates(writes to the sdcard) the system.img
with the installer program ON THE PHONE.
when using the previous android versions (cupcake & donut), the builds came with a system.img that was already built.
only the data.img was needed to be built on the phone.
that lead to fewer if any bad installs.
Now that there is more to write on the phone, its almost impossible to get a stable eclair build.
SO HERE IS WHAT I DID. (being that I am too stubborn to go buy another card yet...)
I first decided to go the route of partitioning the sdcard. (assuming there might be "bad" sectors on the card)
(1) fat32 followed by (2) ext2.
I then tried installing with the new 'install to partitions' options in the installer.
I was still getting I/O errors...
I tried again putting data on partition and system as an img.
still errors...
then data as img and system as partition.
still errors (but it worked)...
I reformatted the ext2 partitions and ran a check. (NO PROBLEMS)
at this point I got a crazy Idea....
ON MY COMPUTER I EXTRACTED THE ANDROIDINSTALL.TGZ AND PUT THE CONTENTS FROM THE SYSTEM FOLDER TO THE SYSTEM PARTITION ON THE SDCARD.
THEN I PUT THE CONTENTS OF THE DATA FOLDER TO THE DATA PARTITION OF THE SDCARD.
still having the andboot folder on the fat32 partition I confirmed the files: HaRET.exe, initrd.gz, zImage-eclair, and startup.txt.
Ran HaRET...
skipped installer...
NO ERRORS>>> INSTALLED>>>>> WORKS!!!!!!!
EDIT: OK, I did have a problem.
I couldn't install any apks. just got message that application was not installed.
first I reboot to installer and tried to fix permissions.
still couldn't install anything...
then I tried installing from market. got error message that there was no room left to install.
then I uninstalled an application and tried to install something else...
still no install...
it Had to be a permission issue. there is more than 50% free space on all partitions.
WENT BACK TO COMPUTER CHANGED PERMISSIONS ON ALL FOLDERS ON THE DATA PARTITION TO RW.(not sure if this is bad???)
and now everything works GREAT!!!!
the only problems are sometimes with the newly installed apps (probably due to I/O errors)
and I just re-install the app and it works.
*********I guess it is time for a new sdcard*******
but for now it is a nice work around.
however, it still doesn't rule out either the installer or the phone itself as the problem.
I will report back if I ever get a new sdcard.
mnjm9b said:
#1
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
This is an interesting approach, copying the files manually instead of using the installer script for that.
I have to say, I have tested with several micro sd cards (class 2,4,6) and I never had any problems with the installer (replimenu 0.9) using ext2 partitions and booting from haret
However, NAND is giving me massive problems still after flashing dzo's or vilord's nbh
After a cold boot, it's extremely slow and getting stuck at several places during the loading process
So I stick with Haret at the moment.
Using class 6 SD memory, the whole process from power on to Android just takes me only 45 seconds, which is working much faster for me than NAND. Another advantage is that the /system and /data mount points are only limited by the size (of the created partitions) of the sd card. I use a 8GB card.
Using Kaiser's internal memory for NAND only gives you 50-80MiB free space left for /data
Update...
I broke my data, which was to be expected.
after I installed a bunch of apps and had problems with many of them.
it finally crapped out on me.
Luckily I backed up my data partition using partimage on linux
so after I re-formated and restored the data partition
everything worked smooth again.
the system partition seemed to be unaffected....NICE!!!
although this time I manually added the apks that I wanted
to the data partition before I put it back in the phone.
they all work great now.
this is way to damn easy...
THANK YOU
YO!!
First off I want to say this site is dope and tons of help to match.
This has most likely been asked before, but..uh I dont see/get it.
I have been trying to create partition ext3-ext4 on my sd with absolutly no luck.
I've been readin this for days now and never seem to find a definitive answer.
Everyone says that while in recovery you have option to partion ext3-ext4, but I guess my phone is retarded for some reason. While in recovery(any version and its clockwork btw) if i go to partition sd, once in that menu it brings up 5 different sizes. I check the last one and then the second step is to pick the swap. After I check what I want for the swap it starts the partition. Nowhere in the recovery menus(anywhere) do i see any options for ext2-4(ext2, ext3, etc etc).
So my question is: If it's not there where do I find it or is there any other option and is it really worth it?
I know how to gpart (or whatever you call it) but not sure how to allocate the sizes. 32GB sd class4
I've finally figured out adb and flashed several times. Call me blind, call me crazy, call me stupid...just don't call me coffee.
any help would be great.
T-Mo G2 is the device.
ps. I guess I'll get this out of the way so i don't have to keep posting dumb questions. I notice when flashing roms and it goes to mount the sd-ext(might have that spelled wrong sorry) I always get an error saying unable to load dev/block/mmcblk1 not formating. Nothing happens and the roms still flash just fine(usually). I saw this question before but everything I read that was supposed to be a"fix" didn't work. I am assuming I'm getting this because my sd isn't properly partitioned. any help on this would swell as well
oh yeah and it's ENG S-Off and all that other jazz. Used the gfree/rage method
cheers
Theres an option in ROM Manager to partition your sdcard for you but I have never had any luck getting it to work.
Heres A LINK that will walk you thru partitioning your sdcard thru ADB, it works, I used it to partition my sdcard, Just remember the sdcard for the HTC VISION is at dev/block/mmcblk1, the instructions will tell you to partition dev/block/mmcblk0, but this is for a diffrent phone. You want to partition dev/block/mmcblk1.
WARNING: DO NOT TRY TO PARTITION dev/block/mmcblk0
thanks for the reply. I learned that last night, lol thats the one I learned from last night. Problem is I need some input on how much to allocate for each partition. 32GB card.
cheers
Are you trying to partition your sdcard for use with apps2ext? If so since you have such a high capacitiy sdcard I would partition it to 1024mb ext2, 32mb linux swap and the rest FAT32.
Just a side note, remember to remove the existing partiton (which is the stock fat32) before starting the partitioning process,
â– Command: rm 1 (deletes partition number 1)
so how to I get the ext4 partition? same as i did the first 3? the reason I ask is because I still dont have sd-ext after i partition with recovery. I want to move dalvic cache so that my widgets will work from sd card
If it helps im using GV1.5 rom with the proper recovery 3.0.0.5 ( which as I just noticed is now the new recovery rom manager wants you to flash...got tired of having to adb 3.0.0.5 everytime I wanted to test CM7 or GV1.5)
thanks
i just tried running the following in adb after card was wiped:
mkpartfs primary fat32 0 31712 that worked
mkpartfs primary ext2 31712 32736 and then got error saying:
The location 32736 is outside of the device /dev/block/mmcblk1
so i think the problem is my card is actually 29.9GB and since my math is crap I cant figure what esactly to put...
Just move your ext partiton a little lower, the same thing happened to me when I tried to partition at first, had to play with the numbers a little. You don't have to get the total card capacity filled with a card that big what's a few mb's.
Sent from my HTC Vision
maybe I should of asked this first.
My reasoning for doing this is I read somewhere that if you can upgrade to ext4 you would be able to run widgets off sd card because the phone thinks it's stll on the actual internal storage,
am I wrong?
There's only one rom that supports apps2ext , which is what your looking to do and that is Enoms rom, but there is also Darktremor's apps2sd mod in the dev section which will enable this on all roms, in either case you need a card partitioned to at least FAT/EXT2.
Sent from my HTC Vision
got it. after darktremors script while in shell i ran ap2sd cachesd and wa la.
thanks again
Hello there! I hope that I am not annoying you, but I am having issues with partitioning my SD Card, that have not yet been discussed here, so a step by step guide would be highly appreciated, because otherwise I am just too stupid.
I have a fully unlocked HTC Desire with alpharev's S-OFF, most recent radio & stuff. Partitioning my SD with Clockworkmod Recovery 3.0.0.5 just won't work, it DOES something, but when plugging my Desire on my PC, it shows me ONE FAT32 partition, just as it was before, which takes up all the SD's space. Neither does it work with ROM Manager.
It got really weird when I manually partition it with GParted on my Ubuntu:
My Setup was:
1 FAT32 Partition, size: maximum what was left.
2 EXT4 Partitions, one 768MB, one 256 just as recommended for DATA2EXT HERE
No SWAP Partition.
Then my sdcard can't even be mounted by CWM-recovery - it says wrong parameter
I can still access it via 'mount usb storage', and fully access and format it in any way I like.
Any hints, step-by-steps or any help at all on how to correctly partition my sdcard? GParted there are settings like partition tables and stuff. what should I choose to make my SD Android-mountable??
EDIT: I think I got it. haven't yet tried it, but I think my fat pertition exceeded 2GB, gonna try later.
hy, don"t know really how it works with gparted (i m currently using amonRA which allows partionning sc card) but a single search with my friend... google gives me that result.
I think this could helps you considering your post.
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=557590
have fun ;-)
CrisisCorE said:
Hello there! I hope that I am not annoying you, but I am having issues with partitioning my SD Card, that have not yet been discussed here, so a step by step guide would be highly appreciated, because otherwise I am just too stupid.
I have a fully unlocked HTC Desire with alpharev's S-OFF, most recent radio & stuff. Partitioning my SD with Clockworkmod Recovery 3.0.0.5 just won't work, it DOES something, but when plugging my Desire on my PC, it shows me ONE FAT32 partition, just as it was before, which takes up all the SD's space. Neither does it work with ROM Manager.
It got really weird when I manually partition it with GParted on my Ubuntu:
My Setup was:
1 FAT32 Partition, size: maximum what was left.
2 EXT4 Partitions, one 768MB, one 256 just as recommended for DATA2EXT HERE
No SWAP Partition.
Then my sdcard can't even be mounted by CWM-recovery - it says wrong parameter
I can still access it via 'mount usb storage', and fully access and format it in any way I like.
Any hints, step-by-steps or any help at all on how to correctly partition my sdcard? GParted there are settings like partition tables and stuff. what should I choose to make my SD Android-mountable??
EDIT: I think I got it. haven't yet tried it, but I think my fat pertition exceeded 2GB, gonna try later.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Not overly sure if this will help but .....
A long time ago when I first started tinkering with roms I tried partitioning my SD Card for Apps2SD but whatever I tried (Partition Magic, ROM Manager, GParted) it would get halfway through partitioning and then fail sometimes even leaving me unable to access the card from phone or PC. Spent several nights trying to sort problem then found out that some makes (possibly cheaper but think Transend are mostly the bad ones?) don't like being partitioned, why .... I have no idea. Anyway bought a new one 16gb Lexar Class 6 card which partition first time and had no problems since. Hope it helps and best of luck!
Are you to create "primary" partition or "logical"?