Develop Bugs

TouchWiz - Multitask Schmultitask!

Hello guys,
yesterday I used the Samsung Memo to write a few phone numbers down, I was going to call them all later and didnt want to create new contacts for these people, so copied the first number, pressed home button, went to the phone app pasted the number and dialed. Good.
then I used the hold pressing the home button and flipped over to the memo app again. A BLANK PAGE greeted me... ie, there was no multitasking, the app cleared itself when I returned to home via the home button.
so how is this (NON) multitasking better than my wife's iphone?
hmmm, perhaps not?

livegod said:
Hello guys,
yesterday I used the Samsung Memo to write a few phone numbers down, I was going to call them all later and didnt want to create new contacts for these people, so copied the first number, pressed home button, went to the phone app pasted the number and dialled. Good.
then I used the hold pressing the home button and flipped over to the memo app again. A BLANK PAGE greeted me... ie, there was no multitasking, the app cleared itself when I retuned to home via the home button.
so how is this (NON) multitasking better than my wife's iphone?
hmmm, perhaps not?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Did you go back by home or back button?
And please, this is not a dev topic...

livegod said:
Hello guys,
yesterday I used the Samsung Memo to write a few phone numbers down, I was going to call them all later and didnt want to create new contacts for these people, so copied the first number, pressed home button, went to the phone app pasted the number and dialled. Good.
then I used the hold pressing the home button and flipped over to the memo app again. A BLANK PAGE greeted me... ie, there was no multitasking, the app cleared itself when I retuned to home via the home button.
so how is this (NON) multitasking better than my wife's iphone?
hmmm, perhaps not?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Wrong forum. Shoo!
I'll answer your question though: The Samsung apps are not well made. Search the market for 'notes' and use a better one. Just because the app is included, doesn't mean it's any good. The market is there for a reason - in fact, it's the whole point of Android.
EDIT:
Did you go back by home or back button?
And please, this is not a dev topic...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You can use either with the memo app, it will lose whatever was there when you come back.

RyanZA said:
Wrong forum. Shoo!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
oops, wrong forum, sorry, I had two tabs open on the browser and created a new topic in the wrong one...
so would it follow that android does not natively multitask, like ANY app in windows would keep your info if you Alt-Tabbed to another app then back again? it seems that APPS have to be written for multitasking as much as iOS ones do.
tx for other app tip, will check it out.
Mark.

Android has no problem with multitask, in fact, it has the better multitask-system that could exists (maybe the WebOS is better...).
When you develop an application for android, you have to choose what happens when the user press the "Home" button. Usually, developers chooses to backup the state of the application for the next launch (= multitask without memory usage).
But Samsung, for the Memo app, just choosed to... close definitely the App. That's all
But there is a lot of "Memo-like" apps in the market (for free) wich doesn't have this issue.
(excuse my english)

pocketjpaul said:
Android has no problem with multitask, in fact, it has the better multitask-system that could exists (maybe the WebOS is better...).
When you develop an application for android, you have to choose what happens when the user press the "Home" button. Usually, developers chooses to backup the state of the application for the next launch (= multitask without memory usage).
But Samsung, for the Memo app, just choosed to... close definitely the App. That's all
But there is a lot of "Memo-like" apps in the market (for free) wich doesn't have this issue.
(excuse my english)
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
meego multitask-system is WAY better than the android one (real multitasking).
and symbian's too is pretty good (real multitasking).
I hate both android and iphone fake multitasking.

RyanZA said:
Wrong forum. Shoo!
I'll answer your question though: The Samsung apps are not well made. Search the market for 'notes' and use a better one. Just because the app is included, doesn't mean it's any good. The market is there for a reason - in fact, it's the whole point of Android.
EDIT:
You can use either with the memo app, it will lose whatever was there when you come back.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I can go back to memo and not lose it.
Op Learn how to use the phone. Then complain. Can your wifes I phone run run widgets? Customize the home screen? Change icons? Change launcher and lockscreen? Can you bind secondary functions to hardware buttons and soft keys to navigate to common functions faster? Do the notification interfere with what you are in the middle of? Is it dlna certified? Can it text to contact groups? Run google voice and transcribe your voicemail to text? Does it take panoramic photos? Play windows media? Does it take ota updates? I can go on....
The old iphone's lack of multitasking helped to idiot proof it and save battery which is what some people need. the idea of multitasking in ios 4 scares me. Ask those simple people that have no need for a smart phone other than its trendyness trying to do two things at once!
Android takes getting used to. It doesn't do anything for you, you are in control and that can be its strength as well as weakness.
You should be able to go to the home screen during a call and re-enter the dialer from the phone icon in the tray to add contacts without affecting the ongoing call. To re-enter the call you go through the notification bar.
(call will still be active but to get to the speaker phone and touch tone contols and have the proximity sensor turn the the screen off when phone is at you ear you go through the notification bar, or maybe the long press home method but I never tried that)
Hitting the back buton exits and is a necessary evil as a way not to leave apps running but not knowing that back kills the app and home doesn't will have you saying WTF all the time.
Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I897 using Tapatalk

drowne said:
meego multitask-system is WAY better than the android one (real multitasking).
and symbian's too is pretty good (real multitasking).
I hate both android and iphone fake multitasking.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
well yeah the symbian "real" multitasking is so graet that if you leave 2 apps open you can hardly make a call.
btw as mentioned before in android theres real multitasking its just up to the developer.
some apps like motonav go on running when you open another app and you can hear the voice directions.
but thank god most apps dond do so. i dont want my nfs shift to run in the background while im trying to run another game

Just the other day i was thinking of a way to implement a webos like card interface and i had an idea.
Is it possible to create a large widget showing open apps with a card like style and a screenshot of the app taken while pressing the home button?
I'm not a programmer so i am simply asking if this is possible.
Swipe to close could be another nice feature to it.
If this is possible and there is a programmer willing to try please contact me.

drowne said:
meego multitask-system is WAY better than the android one (real multitasking).
and symbian's too is pretty good (real multitasking).
I hate both android and iphone fake multitasking.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
dude, who lied to you by saying that android didnt have true multitasking? go back and document urself before saying such insanities here!!

drowne said:
meego multitask-system is WAY better than the android one (real multitasking).
and symbian's too is pretty good (real multitasking).
I hate both android and iphone fake multitasking.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I don't know about Meego, but Symbian multitasking is as basic as it gets. Run a couple of apps in the background, then try browsing the net in Opera Mobile. 5 Minutes later with 3 tabs open Opera has to shut down due to no memory left. Nice real multitasking
Should be better with Symbian 3, but it's still a basic system that may have to shut down apps and lose work.
I'm looking forward to Meego's release though, finally some decent competition for Android. Kinda sad that Meamo is abandoned due to it though.
There's nothing fake about Android multitasking. A developer chooses what happens to the app when the use hits the back key or home key. Usually it exits when the back key is hit, or goes to the background when the home key is hit.
Different apps may work differently, it's up to the developer to decide. If an app has to shut down due to low memory, it can save its state first so that you don't lose anything.
Can't blame Android for Samsung's crappy memo app.

Maddmatt said:
I don't know about Meego, but Symbian multitasking is as basic as it gets. Run a couple of apps in the background, then try browsing the net in Opera Mobile. 5 Minutes later with 3 tabs open Opera has to shut down due to no memory left. Nice real multitasking
Should be better with Symbian 3, but it's still a basic system that may have to shut down apps and lose work.
I'm looking forward to Meego's release though, finally some decent competition for Android. Kinda sad that Meamo is abandoned due to it though.
There's nothing fake about Android multitasking. A developer chooses what happens to the app when the use hits the back key or home key. Usually it exits when the back key is hit, or goes to the background when the home key is hit.
Different apps may work differently, it's up to the developer to decide. If an app has to shut down due to low memory, it can save its state first so that you don't lose anything.
Can't blame Android for Samsung's crappy memo app.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I don't know what you are doing but Symbian has REAL multitasking, not matter how much you don't like it. The sluggish response (in SOME phones) is a HARDWARE limitation, not the OS, that despite being old, it's a very capable OS.

Arkymedes said:
I don't know what you are doing but Symbian has REAL multitasking, not matter how much you don't like it. The sluggish response (in SOME phones) is a HARDWARE limitation, not the OS, that despite being old, it's a very capable OS.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
And the hardware comes with the OS! What is the consumer supposed to do about that? They buy the OS and phone as a package and Nokias packages are underpowered, short on memory and as buggy as hell.
ROFLMAO!

Arkymedes said:
I don't know what you are doing but Symbian has REAL multitasking, not matter how much you don't like it. The sluggish response (in SOME phones) is a HARDWARE limitation, not the OS, that despite being old, it's a very capable OS.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I know it's real multitasking, I was just mocking how badly it handles low memory. At least with Android apps can save their state in that situation, and the app you are actually using is the last one that would be closed.
I expect Symbian 3 to improve that though.
Android mutitasking isn't any less real than the rest. It just works differently. If it goes wrong then it can generally be blamed on the app, since they have full control of what happens in various situations. Unlike Symbian where they can just get shut down without a chance to save anything.
Samsung just didn't program their memo app to save its state. Theres better apps to do the job.

Which of all these posts are related to development you say?
And now for the off-topic:
@OP: Don't get me wrong, not trying to be rude or anything, but you really don't understand yet how the phone works. If you hold the home button and switch between applications the text will be there when you go back. That's multitasking, as simple as that. If samsung's applications are crap that's another thing (which btw I agree, 42mb on apps removed from jpc and still works like crap, will try a fresh froyo build and see what happens then),
All this should be on the general section. Any mod out there willing to move this thread out of the dev forum please?
Regards

toca79 said:
Just the other day i was thinking of a way to implement a webos like card interface and i had an idea.
Is it possible to create a large widget showing open apps with a card like style and a screenshot of the app taken while pressing the home button?
I'm not a programmer so i am simply asking if this is possible.
Swipe to close could be another nice feature to it.
If this is possible and there is a programmer willing to try please contact me.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
This is possible. You can catch draws, as well as everything else that would be needed. It would probably need a homescreen replacement.
Basic idea: catch when an app is going to background, call a draw to an offscreen buffer, then show it on the mainscreen as a screenshot. Not sure how easy any of this would be, since I've never tried to make a homescreen replacement.

Finguz said:
And the hardware comes with the OS! What is the consumer supposed to do about that? They buy the OS and phone as a package and Nokias packages are underpowered, short on memory and as buggy as hell.
ROFLMAO!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Are you kidding me? Did you read before posting?
By your great conclusion, so Android should have the same performance on the HTC Tattoo and the Galaxy S right?
The point is, there are different hardwares with the same OS. You cannot compare an N82 with a C7 right? sigh...

Troll .

RyanZA said:
This is possible. You can catch draws, as well as everything else that would be needed. It would probably need a homescreen replacement.
Basic idea: catch when an app is going to background, call a draw to an offscreen buffer, then show it on the mainscreen as a screenshot. Not sure how easy any of this would be, since I've never tried to make a homescreen replacement.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Well, glad to know that my idea is doable, the only problem is that i lack the skills, and even the tools to make something like this (any suggestion appreciated).
Hope some developer likes my idea and tries to realize it

lol, this thread is very, very stupid but nevertheless i want to throw in my 5 cents:
android has real multitasking. the system however can kill an app at any time when it feels like it needs the resources, this is maybe what happened to the OP. bad work by samsung because it could have saved the state to "disk". stupid of the OP because he obviously didn't push "save". good night and good luck!

A WM/Android User's Take

1st off this is not intended to be a flaming / bashing thread. If you want to do that please go elsewhere; I'm sure the vibrant forums will welcome you. If a MOD feels this belongs somewhere else, please move it.
I have been a long time WM user and recently switched to android for the past year. I am offering my take on WP7 on the pros on cons.
Interface - Finally something completely new and wonderful. Microsoft really did hit a homerun on trying to make information at a glance approach. Mail and search apps look beautiful. I thing missing, being able to quickly jump to apps in the app menu.
Lack of Landscape Support- For as great as the UI is I am shocked at the lack of landscape support. The start menu, app menu, nor Zune have lanscape support. You can not even refresh a webpage or type in a website if you are in landscape mode. Calling this anything other than an epic "FAIL" by microsoft is sugar coating it. Especially when the HD7 and Surround beg to be in landscape mode with their kick stands.
Browser - As expected from an IE browser it is pretty good. I already mentioned the lack of landscape support which is really frustrating but there is something else that gets under my skin more. Web pages do not resize to fit the screen when you zoom in. This was/is almost a deal breaking for me honestly. I love the organization of having all the buttons at the bottom and the interface is stunning but you lose way to many options in landscape mode. You can't even access favorites without first going back to portrait. MS, this NEEDS to be addressed soon. The browser is the main feature of smartphones now.
Zune - Wonderful if you have a Zune Pass. Honestly it was one of the main reasons why I bought this phone. I expected it to be awesome and it didn't disappoint. That being said they need to add a Play Now option to the market songs. When I'm browsing the market sometimes I want to queue songs and the Add to Playlist option makes sense but how could you leave out Play now? Seriously?
Another thing I don't like is I can not fast forward to a certain spot in a movie. Video files can be hours long, why should I have to hold the fast forward button to get to the point I'd like. Let me hit the progress bar and then use the rewind / fast forward buttons for getting to the exact point.
USB Storage Device- glaring admission, but I can kind of see why. It helps stop piracy, but I loved being able to hook my fuze / tilt 2 / nexus 1 / vibrant to my car stereo and play the music I had downloaded on my phone. I know I could get an audio cable and do the same, but while driving it is so much easier to use the radio head unit to control music rather than your phone. I knew this when getting in bed with WP7, but that doesnt mean I still can't miss it.
Bluetooth- for music works just like it should. however it will not play the audio from video files threw bluetooth. It keeps coming out of my phone's main speakers and there is no way to get into the bluetooth profiles to see if something is wrong. VERY ANNOYING MS. get to fixing it.
People- Wonderful. Could anyone ask anymore? I gave it my facebook and gmail accounts and I didn't have to worry about any contacts not showing up. Love the Facebook updates also.
Dailer- No smart dialer? This used to even be in my old wizard by default. How it get left out is completely beyond me.
Announced fixes- Flash, Copy & Paste, Turn by Turn navigation can't come soon enough but I am glad microsoft acknowledged they needed them.
Local Outlook Support- I knew this before hand, but I am in the crowd that says MS needs to add this ability.
Overall- I bought my HD7 without a contract and I am pretty sure i will NOT be returning it. I love my HD7 and WP7, however this OS isn't entirely complete. That being said was iOS and Android complete when they came out? To even suggest that is laughable. I can not wait for microsoft to release all the fixes for this OS because when it does it will be a powerhouse.
I will not buy that this phone is for dumbsmart phone users. I probably done more with my phones than 95% of android users who will do nothing by bash WP7 and i honestly see this for ALL users. It helps bring the powerhouse experience in an easier way without being tied down as much as iOS.

Why not just post in one of the other 50 threads? Now people will be copy-pasting replies from those into this one.
I did notice the lack of landscape mode in IE. I think that was the only thing that made me go WTF when I used the HD7.
However, the keyboard is so good that I don't think it even mattered that much.
I guess with a 3.7-8" screen it can be a bit annoying, but on anything 4" or bigger it didn't strike me as a big deal beyond the initial shock of it not being there.
Also, lots of people dont' seem to know the difference between an Operating System and an Application.

N8ter said:
Why not just post in one of the other 50 threads? Now people will be copy-pasting replies from those into this one.
I did notice the lack of landscape mode in IE. I think that was the only thing that made me go WTF when I used the HD7.
However, the keyboard is so good that I don't think it even mattered that much.
I guess with a 3.7-8" screen it can be a bit annoying, but on anything 4" or bigger it didn't strike me as a big deal beyond the initial shock of it not being there.
Also, lots of people dont' seem to know the difference between an Operating System and an Application.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Those threads became nothing but flaming / bashing threads. I thought it would be a good idea to try to get away from that.
Also a core application can be considered part of the OS. If you can not uninstall it, it is part of the OS.
I thought it was annoying not being able to get to the address bar with all that screen space.

I don't know about you guys but my Surround goes into landscape mode IE just fine...
The only thing I don't like is lack of landscape in marketplace and Zune...
also if you want a nice photo editor, Thumba photo editor for $.099 is awesome!
EDIT: Oh i see. I can't believe I have to switch to portrait to type a URL!! WTF microsoft!

jz9833 said:
Browser - As expected from an IE browser it is pretty good. I already mentioned the lack of landscape support which is really frustrating but there is something else that gets under my skin more. Web pages do not resize to fit the screen when you zoom in. This was/is almost a deal breaking for me honestly. I love the organization of having all the buttons at the bottom and the interface is stunning but you lose way to many options in landscape mode. You can't even access favorites without first going back to portrait. MS, this NEEDS to be addressed soon. The browser is the main feature of smartphones now.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Overall I agree with just about everything you said. Regarding the browser, I've noticed that certain areas of webpages are zoomed in more than others. For instance, on xda, the text of people's posts is HUGE compared to the buttons such as User CP, etc. at the top of the page. What I've found is a double tap in my area of interest on a page will zoom the page so that ONLY my area of interest is approriately sized. Then, when I want to switch to another part of the page, I double tap there and the page will resize, and so on. The text does not dynamically reflow a la Android, but I think it's a pretty usable system.
-R

jz9833 said:
Dailer- No smart dialer? This used to even be in my old wizard by default. How it get left out is completely beyond me.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
There is voice dialing in WP7 not sure what you mean by smart dialer???

rruffman said:
There is voice dialing in WP7 not sure what you mean by smart dialer???
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
By going to the dailer and being able to spell "MOM" for example on the keys and it would automatically come up with the number for that contact.

jz9833 said:
Also a core application can be considered part of the OS. If you can not uninstall it, it is part of the OS.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Lol, what? No, it's not. It's a stock application distributed with the OS. It is not part of the OS.
By the Logic people can say "Android is buggy because the GMail client is buggy." or "Windows Mobile is buggy because the Opera Browser HTC bundled with the HD2 is buggy." or "Linux is full of bugs because the KDE in that distro is buggy as hell."
Every OS comes with a set of stock applications, but they are just that, and are usually updatable independent of installing a new kernel or driver stack on the device.
In any case, I've already said I agree that the lack of landscape mode is an issue.
I just wanted to make that distinction, because lots of people on this forum are incapable of doing it themselves.

N8ter said:
Lol, what? No, it's not. It's a stock application distributed with the OS. It is not part of the OS.
By the Logic people can say "Android is buggy because the GMail client is buggy." or "Windows Mobile is buggy because the Opera Browser HTC bundled with the HD2 is buggy." or "Linux is full of bugs because the KDE in that distro is buggy as hell."
Every OS comes with a set of stock applications, but they are just that, and are usually updatable independent of installing a new kernel or driver stack on the device.
In any case, I've already said I agree that the lack of landscape mode is an issue.
I just wanted to make that distinction, because lots of people on this forum are incapable of doing it themselves.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I still completely disagree with you. Froyo for Android made plenty of browser updates so would you say that wasn't a OS update?
I like most people consider stock apps part of the OS

jz9833 said:
I still completely disagree with you. Froyo for Android made plenty of browser updates so would you say that wasn't a OS update?
I like most people consider stock apps part of the OS
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Agree. Basically system is made of apps.
If email app built into it is buggy, we can say OS is buggy.

jz9833 said:
I still completely disagree with you. Froyo for Android made plenty of browser updates so would you say that wasn't a OS update?
I like most people consider stock apps part of the OS
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Doesnt meam ur right and most people are ignorant in os design and the diff between an os and an app distributed with said os.
Obviously...
Sent from my SGH-T959 using XDA App

N8ter said:
Doesnt meam ur right and most people are ignorant in os design and the diff between an os and an app distributed with said os.
Obviously...
Sent from my SGH-T959 using XDA App
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
then you are going to have to disagree with almost all people. This isn't a techy vs jock debate. These are apps which are built into the os and therefore part of the os.
But anyway this thread is meant for objective evaluation of WP7. If you want to continue this debate we should continue it somewhere else.

jz9833 said:
By going to the dailer and being able to spell "MOM" for example on the keys and it would automatically come up with the number for that contact.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You can use search in the people hub for something very similar. Admittedly not an exact substitute but it works well enough for me.

jz9833 said:
I have been a long time WM user and recently switched to android for the past year. I am offering my take on WP7 on the pros on cons.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Good post
jz9833 said:
USB Storage Device- glaring admission, but I can kind of see why. It helps stop piracy, but I loved being able to hook my fuze / tilt 2 / nexus 1 / vibrant to my car stereo and play the music I had downloaded on my phone.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
How does this increase piracy? If the files you buy on Zune are locked down they can still do this even if there is a common store of files accessible as usb mass storage. Either by drm or by using isolated storage for those files.
jz9833 said:
Local Outlook Support- I knew this before hand, but I am in the crowd that says MS needs to add this ability.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
If you do it this way, then you are working with two sets of data (email, calendar, tasks, contacts, etc.) neither of which is guaranteed to be up to date. I don't see why people think this is preferable to a server-based system.
jz9833 said:
I will not buy that this phone is for dumb smart phone users.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Hopefully this will be true; I will keep my fingers crossed. Currently, as I see it, they are targeting people who don't understand what files are, and would be confused by files, and who believe that music consists of songs arranged by artists into albums. I.e. the dumb mass market.

CSMR said:
How does this increase piracy? If the files you buy on Zune are locked down they can still do this even if there is a common store of files accessible as usb mass storage. Either by drm or by using isolated storage for those files.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
The cintent u purchase in zune have no drm..... The piracy statement is legit.
Sent from my SGH-T959 using XDA App

though given you just purchased for your zune account, you can then access it on zune desktop, and burn discs from there. so no necessarily correct.
however, what i think of a common storage area is a good idea. just have it so that the pictures, videos, music, documents are in a folder view for when you plug the phone into your PC. it would really only require a bit of mapping within the OS to make it look like a storage unit. Even if it was just more restricted down to just the documents section, that's still something. better than nothing imo as i don't have access to skydrive at work. but aye, i can live with it, it's not going to make me want to return the phone.

The Gate Keeper said:
though given you just purchased for your zune account, you can then access it on zune desktop, and burn discs from there. so no necessarily correct.
however, what i think of a common storage area is a good idea. just have it so that the pictures, videos, music, documents are in a folder view for when you plug the phone into your PC. it would really only require a bit of mapping within the OS to make it look like a storage unit. Even if it was just more restricted down to just the documents section, that's still something. better than nothing imo as i don't have access to skydrive at work. but aye, i can live with it, it's not going to make me want to return the phone.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Its 2001, people pirate with digital media. Cd piracy may still be hip in the third world, but I haven't operated a cd player in years (or used my computer to play one), much less bought or burned one.
Sent from my SGH-T959 using XDA App

N8ter said:
Its 2001, people pirate with digital media. Cd piracy may still be hip in the third world, but I haven't operated a cd player in years (or used my computer to play one), much less bought or burned one.
Sent from my SGH-T959 using XDA App
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
how about an MP3 cd? to play in your car? to lend to a friend? or your USB stick? as soon as it's available on zune desktop you have a copy of it... there is plenty ways around it. i'm not saying you should do it, i'm saying the possibilities are there.

N8ter said:
The cintent u purchase in zune have no drm..... The piracy statement is legit.
Sent from my SGH-T959 using XDA App
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
If the files are not DRMed, and Microsoft wants to protect them, either it can DRM the files, or it can keep them in isolated storage. The existence of common storage doesn't exclude isolated storage.

Dear Steve Ballmer and Microsoft (WP7 Related)

Dear Steve Ballmer & Microsoft,
Before I begin my rant, please allow me to say that I have used many many many PDA phones. And WP7 has without a doubt, some of the most GLARING problems I have ever seen in a mobile OS.
My phone history (in no [particular order]:
-T-mobile Pocket PC (the 1st one)
- SE P800, P900, P910I
- Xperia X1
- Many different WM 5.0, 6.0 6.5 phones (maybe 10 or more). If I were to list them all this would take all day. My most recent WM phone before this HD7 was the HTC TyTN II.
- Nokia N93i, N95, N900 (still got it)
- Nokia Communicators 9210 and E90
- Iphone 1st Gen
- Kyocera Palm OS phone
- Probably other stuff I forgot about along the way.
(Btw, all of these phones had address books which worked great)
I am in no way saying that I am some PDA expert, but I think its safe to say I've used alot of PDAs.
Good afternoon. I really hope somebody from Microsoft or Steve himself or some MS dev is reading this.
I recently bought a HTC HD7 and after using it for 1hr my initial impressions were very good....THEN i used it a bit longer and I started to realize something.
Cons:
1. The contact list function is really really bad. You guys replaced the standard address book function with the Facebook contact list. It is horribly bad. It is so bad that it leads me to believe that NONE OF YOU have actually used facebook in your life. If any of you developers were actually familiar with Facebook, you would have realized that most consumers definitely do not want 80% of their Facebook contacts cluttering/polluting their cell phones address book. Also, why am I not able to browse through my Facebook contacts photos? Am I missing something? Why cant I simply just tap the portrait of my facebook friend and look at his profile pictures?
2. The WP7's media playerss seek function needs to work like a STANDARD portable TOUCH SCREEN media player. Why am I not able skip to the part of the video I want to watch by simply sliding my finger along the time bar until I reach my target moment? Why am I forced to press a seek button instead? I thought this was a touch screen phone, not to mention the fact that Pocket PC, Pocket PC 2003, WM 5.0 WM 6.0 WM 6.5 all included this missing function. Do you guys even watch movies on your cell phones? Or are you guys still using Nokia 5200s?
3. Xbox Live is buggy as hell. I download a game through Xbox Live and it says I need to connect my phone to my computer or connect to wifi (It was already both) in order to complete the install. There is no easy way to check the progress of the installation of download unless I try to download another application. Is the ability to check the progress without downloading another app hidden somewhere? If so, why is it hidden?
4. When I try to visit a previous webpage and I press the hardware backwards arrow botton, it kicks me out of IE.
5. The hardware buttons have great sensitivity, but I am constantly pressing them by accident (with my palm), thus closing my active program unintentionally.
And let me tell you, I do not have large hands.
6. I dunno why it doesnt work as a USB drive natively. Perhaps this is some sort of piracy control measure or you are trying to mimic apple.
7. Cant copy and paste. I dunno why this is so hard for you guys. You guys could have some sort of hardware button, that when pushed activates a 2nd function to the screen pressing. Instead of clicking on a link, if the hardware button is pressed, it would allow the user to select the letters and highlight them. Then copy/paste somewhere else.
8. I cannot delete/hide my recently browsed youtube video history. I was looking at videos of girls shaking their butts and afterwards when I went to my zune application, I saw the video thumbnails there! I cant delete or hide them? Where is the privacy?
9. Doesnt support Divx codecs, which it should because this is a phone for a "mobile life style". Why would I want to sit at my computer for hrs waiting for my videos to convert? Why do you guys and apple insist on your own proprietary formats?
Sub-Score: -9
Pros:
1. Works fast, very smooth. Is this a result of the reduced interface .
2. Web browsing is pretty good, except I cant fast forward through youtube videos by sliding my finger on the time bar.
Sub-Score: +2
Total Score: -7
I do not believe this phone is beyond saving. Surely you guys must have noticed some of the things I mentioned. Why you did not remedy these issues before the release? I do not know. If you guys were unaware of the problems I mentioned, well now you know. Please fix these issues soon and FFS, please add a proper address book application and allow me to use my finger/time bar to seek through a video/song/youtube vid.
Currently, I would have to say this phone is nothing more than a portable media player with some phone functions built in. And you guys already screwed up with the media player part.
If I could go back in time (which was only yesterday) I would have bought a HTC Desire HD. But I cant so I can only pray that you guys fix some/most of these issues.
If I am sorely mistaken and some of these functions actually are included and hidden somewhere, why are they not intuitive?
Thanks.....for nothing.....

I always liked the N95 symbian address book that allowed me to create groups for my contacts and I liked all WM previous phone dialers which would cross reference all incoming and outgoing calls with the numbers I was pressing.
Microsoft should atleast make a dialer thats as good as their previous ones, and maybe learn a thing or 2 from Symbian.
Edit: I just read that it was possible to cut down the number of contacts from facebook that appear in your phone, but it still should not be this difficult. I should be able to simple long press the contact and select delete or hide.

Nice One Star thread repeating issues in about 20 other threads
One thing I'd like to agree with the OP about is the Capacitive buttons. They're a good idea in theory (the Vibrant has them as well), but they're practically terrible. They are very prone to hitting by accident.
Lots of OSes can learn from Symbian, but being the Jack of All Trades has not worked for any OS to date. Windows Mobile also supported a ton of stuff and it's marketshare in the US suffered a lot. Symbian has great marketshare overseas because the OS is used in low-end feature phones as well. They aren't strong in the mid-high end smartphone market.
And they would be, if they didn't put such small NANDs in the phones, skimp on the RAM in the phones (it uses a Virtual memory architechture, but the phones still need at least 348 MB RAM, IMO), and have such an embarassing user interface. I really like that it has the most flexible development environment of any smartphone OS, though (similar to [again] Windows Mobile on that front).

Blazerfan722 said:
Dear Steve Ballmer & Microsoft,
Before I begin my rant, please allow me to say that I have used many many many PDA phones. And WP7 has without a doubt, some of the most GLARING problems I have ever seen in a mobile OS.
My phone history (in no [particular order]:
-T-mobile Pocket PC (the 1st one)
- SE P800, P900, P910I
- Xperia X1
- Many different WM 5.0, 6.0 6.5 phones (maybe 10 or more). If I were to list them all this would take all day. My most recent WM phone before this HD7 was the HTC TyTN II.
- Nokia N93i, N95, N900 (still got it)
- Nokia Communicators 9210 and E90
- Iphone 1st Gen
- Kyocera Palm OS phone
- Probably other stuff I forgot about along the way.
(Btw, all of these phones had address books which worked great)
I am in no way saying that I am some PDA expert, but I think its safe to say I've used alot of PDAs.
Good afternoon. I really hope somebody from Microsoft or Steve himself or some MS dev is reading this.
I recently bought a HTC HD7 and after using it for 1hr my initial impressions were very good....THEN i used it a bit longer and I started to realize something.
Cons:
1. The contact list function is really really bad. You guys replaced the standard address book function with the Facebook contact list. It is horribly bad. It is so bad that it leads me to believe that NONE OF YOU have actually used facebook in your life. If any of you developers were actually familiar with Facebook, you would have realized that most consumers definitely do not want 80% of their Facebook contacts cluttering/polluting their cell phones address book. Also, why am I not able to browse through my Facebook contacts photos? Am I missing something? Why cant I simply just tap the portrait of my facebook friend and look at his profile pictures?
2. The WP7's media playerss seek function needs to work like a STANDARD portable TOUCH SCREEN media player. Why am I not able skip to the part of the video I want to watch by simply sliding my finger along the time bar until I reach my target moment? Why am I forced to press a seek button instead? I thought this was a touch screen phone, not to mention the fact that Pocket PC, Pocket PC 2003, WM 5.0 WM 6.0 WM 6.5 all included this missing function. Do you guys even watch movies on your cell phones? Or are you guys still using Nokia 5200s?
3. Xbox Live is buggy as hell. I download a game through Xbox Live and it says I need to connect my phone to my computer or connect to wifi (It was already both) in order to complete the install. There is no easy way to check the progress of the installation of download unless I try to download another application. Is the ability to check the progress without downloading another app hidden somewhere? If so, why is it hidden?
4. When I try to visit a previous webpage and I press the hardware backwards arrow botton, it kicks me out of IE.
5. The hardware buttons have great sensitivity, but I am constantly pressing them by accident (with my palm), thus closing my active program unintentionally.
And let me tell you, I do not have large hands.
6. I dunno why it doesnt work as a USB drive natively. Perhaps this is some sort of piracy control measure or you are trying to mimic apple.
7. Cant copy and paste. I dunno why this is so hard for you guys. You guys could have some sort of hardware button, that when pushed activates a 2nd function to the screen pressing. Instead of clicking on a link, if the hardware button is pressed, it would allow the user to select the letters and highlight them. Then copy/paste somewhere else.
8. I cannot delete/hide my recently browsed youtube video history. I was looking at videos of girls shaking their butts and afterwards when I went to my zune application, I saw the video thumbnails there! I cant delete or hide them? Where is the privacy?
9. Doesnt support Divx codecs, which it should because this is a phone for a "mobile life style". Why would I want to sit at my computer for hrs waiting for my videos to convert? Why do you guys and apple insist on your own proprietary formats?
Sub-Score: -9
Pros:
1. Works fast, very smooth. Is this a result of the reduced interface .
2. Web browsing is pretty good, except I cant fast forward through youtube videos by sliding my finger on the time bar.
Sub-Score: +2
Total Score: -7
I do not believe this phone is beyond saving. Surely you guys must have noticed some of the things I mentioned. Why you did not remedy these issues before the release? I do not know. If you guys were unaware of the problems I mentioned, well now you know. Please fix these issues soon and FFS, please add a proper address book application and allow me to use my finger/time bar to seek through a video/song/youtube vid.
Currently, I would have to say this phone is nothing more than a portable media player with some phone functions built in. And you guys already screwed up with the media player part.
If I could go back in time (which was only yesterday) I would have bought a HTC Desire HD. But I cant so I can only pray that you guys fix some/most of these issues.
If I am sorely mistaken and some of these functions actually are included and hidden somewhere, why are they not intuitive?
Thanks.....for nothing.....
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
1. There's a separate Facebook app in the marketplace. If you don't want to integrate everyone, get it.
2. Agree on this point.
3. Never happened to me. If you want to see the progress stay on that page. A little bar begins to fill up. So I don't know what you're talking about.
4. Only time that happens to me is when I exit IE and then try to come back in.
5. Sorry, but that's user error.
6. There's already a workaround. You can use it as a mass storage device.
7. Its coming in the update. Why is that so hard to get?
8. Don't browse inappropriate videos? Or play a few more things after to make it replace the history items.
9. Kinda agree, but its not unheard of at all. So why would they do it?

EDIT: Poster above was more succint.

The problem isn't DivX as far as I understand, it's avi. Divx is just an implementation of MPEG-4 Part 2 Advanced Simple Profile, which is supported. And the strange part here is that avi is Microsoft's own proprietary format, while mp4 is Apple's. Strange times.
Scrubbing is needed not only for long videos, I use it all the time for YouTube and music (especially podcasts, many of which aren't properly separated into chapters).

WOW, only the 20th "I hate WP7" thread for today so far? Hmmm, the trolls are slacking.

eternalemb said:
1. There's a separate Facebook app in the marketplace. If you don't want to integrate everyone, get it.
2. Agree on this point.
3. Never happened to me. If you want to see the progress stay on that page. A little bar begins to fill up. So I don't know what you're talking about.
4. Only time that happens to me is when I exit IE and then try to come back in.
5. Sorry, but that's user error.
6. There's already a workaround. You can use it as a mass storage device.
7. Its coming in the update. Why is that so hard to get?
8. Don't browse inappropriate videos? Or play a few more things after to make it replace the history items.
9. Kinda agree, but its not unheard of at all. So why would they do it?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
He got the phone. It has many limitations he doesn't like.
So what's your problem?
"Coming in the update" means nothing. It may be month or 5 months.
Nobody buys a device to wait for update, well, maybe only tech geeks, but that's not the phone for them.

doministry said:
He got the phone. It has many limitations he doesn't like.
So what's your problem?
"Coming in the update" means nothing. It may be month or 5 months.
Nobody buys a device to wait for update, well, maybe only tech geeks, but that's not the phone for them.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
And he, like everyone else who bought one, should've known the deficiencies the devices carry atm. So, what's your problem?
You don't like the features a phone has or is lacking, you don't buy it. Simple, no?
And the update is expected in January.

f1restarter said:
WOW, only the 20th "I hate WP7" thread for today so far? Hmmm, the trolls are slacking.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
No, no, I'm watching ....

Blazerfan722 said:
Dear Steve Ballmer & Microsoft,
1. The contact list function is really really bad. You guys replaced the standard address book function with the Facebook contact list. It is horribly bad. It is so bad that it leads me to believe that NONE OF YOU have actually used facebook in your life. If any of you developers were actually familiar with Facebook, you would have realized that most consumers definitely do not want 80% of their Facebook contacts cluttering/polluting their cell phones address book. Also, why am I not able to browse through my Facebook contacts photos? Am I missing something? Why cant I simply just tap the portrait of my facebook friend and look at his profile pictures?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You do know that you can disable Facebook friends as contacts in the settings, don't you?

CR1M1N4L said:
You do know that you can disable Facebook friends as contacts in the settings, don't you?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
People these days expect the phone to pop up push messages from the microsoft servers for days after they buy it detailing every single detail of the device.
Reading, Reading Comprehension, Critical Thinking... These sorts of things are out the window these days.

N8ter said:
People these days expect the phone to pop up push messages from the microsoft servers for days after they buy it detailing every single detail of the device.
Reading, Reading Comprehension, Critical Thinking... These sorts of things are out the window these days.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Bet your house on that. Our society is getting dumber, lazier and more malleable by the minute. Though I digress...

LOL... This guy's not a troll!
He's genuinely disappointed with his purchase and has every right to complain about it. If you WP7 sympathisers were honest with yourselves, you would recognise that there are currently plenty of problems with this platform, and disaffected users have every right to complain.
There's no point pretending the problems don't exist.. it's obvious they, perhaps you only ever read Microsoft blogs and listen to Channel 9. If you want a true indication about how many users are feeling, just read the Microsoft questions and answers forum.

Guys,
This is still a new OS, it's been out for ONE month, many of these things gonna be replaced or added with updates. Just wait and see. The most important thing now is that's a fast and simple OS. Just remember what ****ty phone iPhone was, look what it became now... Time does miracles!

Alright guys, I'm leaving this open thread to know the answer, if it occurs.
And also for others to vent, but we will maintain an acceptable level before they start fighting funboys because of companies.

AceofSpades25 said:
LOL... This guy's not a troll!
He's genuinely disappointed with his purchase and has every right to complain about it. If you WP7 sympathisers were honest with yourselves, you would recognise that there are currently plenty of problems with this platform, and disaffected users have every right to complain.
There's no point pretending the problems don't exist.. it's obvious they, perhaps you only ever read Microsoft blogs and listen to Channel 9. If you want a true indication about how many users are feeling, just read the Microsoft questions and answers forum.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Agreed,
Unfortunately I have the feeling that most people here now refuse to see the obvious problems with this platform (no USB, no DivX, and so many others...)
Seems like there is no right to judge and criticize the OS.
We shall not become like the iPhone fanboys. Seriously.
I also think that WP7 is a truly disappointing experience as I don't like to be forced to use all these external MS services (Zune, Skydrive, Marketplace, etc...) that just make me waste my time.
And I expect nothing from the so-called January update.

I love threads like this. Keep em coming lol jk. But man the pole jockers in here have fits when anyone say something about wp7. I dont know what everyones country rules are. But mine is freedom of speech. So if the dont like what the guy or troll have to say, dont feed him. Case Closed.

To the OP, I suggest you spill your mind on these boards http://social.answers.microsoft.com/Forums/en-US/windowsphone7/threads
At least it gets some exposure for Microsoft.

lqaddict said:
To the OP, I suggest you spill your mind on these boards http://social.answers.microsoft.com/Forums/en-US/windowsphone7/threads
At least it gets some exposure for Microsoft.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Good tip, if OP find interesting; closure here, and this link is for future users to enjoy!
Thanks!

iPhone theme gives a taste of Windows 8 on a smartphone

http://wmpoweruser.com/iphone-theme-gives-a-taste-of-windows-8-on-a-smartphone/

Apple fanboys so excited for windows 8 they have a full theme on iphone first... but aren't they supposed to be supporting Apple products? LOL
Besides, the whole theme is wrong. I asssume Apollo will look exactly like WP7 metro interface, only with background colors and whatever just as long as its not horizontally positioned.
Tap that!

Looks nice! You gotta give iOS users, hackers, and developer props for being able to do amazing stuff with Apple's OS. All fanboyism aside, this Win8 iPhone theme truly showcases iOS' power and capability.

KimWinter said:
Looks nice! You gotta give iOS users, hackers, and developer props for being able to do amazing stuff with Apple's OS. All fanboyism aside, this Win8 iPhone theme truly showcases iOS' power and capability.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
It's too bad we can't do that with WP.

man those ios guys are quick !
not a bad looking or responding theme either.

sinister1 said:
It's too bad we can't do that with WP.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Of course we can. We just need Windows Phone to become as popular as iPhone. Hackers seem to be able to get into anything man made nowadays.
From what I saw I did not see the tiles being live. Yes, I saw labels on the tiles but that does not make them live. Give me live tiles!

I don't know about live tiles - that Win8 theme was a Dreamboard theme, which takes a lot of memory from the phone. If you try to play iOS games that are memory intensive e.g. Infinity Blade 2 or Dungeon Defender, the game will crash (if Dreamboard is enabled). So if you try to add live tiles to your Dreamboard theme, your iPhone might explode.

KimWinter said:
I don't know about live tiles - that Win8 theme was a Dreamboard theme, which takes a lot of memory from the phone. If you try to play iOS games that are memory intensive e.g. Infinity Blade 2 or Dungeon Defender, the game will crash (if Dreamboard is enabled). So if you try to add live tiles to your Dreamboard theme, your iPhone might explode.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
And that also means that the iPhone needs to be Jailbroke.
I got kind of excited, because i would love the larger tiles/icons on my iPhone, but am not going to jailbreak a work issued iPhone.
There are other Windows Phone 7 themes for it as well, but the same issue. Phone must be jail broke.

sinister1 said:
http://wmpoweruser.com/iphone-theme-gives-a-taste-of-windows-8-on-a-smartphone/
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Probably because OSX Lion is a remake of Windows Millenium.

Apple has been doing themselves such a disservice sticking with such a static, boring UI. it makes me wonder why.

nicksti said:
Apple has been doing themselves such a disservice sticking with such a static, boring UI. it makes me wonder why.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Because it sells in outragous numbers, without changing anything ?

ohgood said:
Because it sells in outragous numbers, without changing anything ?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yeah, Apple doesn't really have to worry about making a theming app or whatnot because hackers and other developers are more than happy to do all those (customization, tweaks, hacks, etc) for FREE. I mean look at redsn0w, greenpoison, ultrasn0w, and other jailbreaking tools for iPhone - they're FREE!!
Still, it makes you kinda wonder why with all the power of iOS and WP7 as a stable and working mobile OS, they chose to limit it's customizability - even the most basic functions (like custom themes or background wallpapers or the ability to change icons).

ohgood said:
Because it sells in outragous numbers, without changing anything ?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Complacency is one way to end up bankrupt (general statement). And Apple did see the need for a notification center and a camera from lockscreen.
Every iOS that has that UI is another year that opens the door for Android and WP to gain more customers.

nicksti said:
Complacency is one way to end up bankrupt (general statement). And Apple did see the need for a notification center and a camera from lockscreen.
Every iOS that has that UI is another year that opens the door for Android and WP to gain more customers.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
complacency= yes, look what that did with wm6.x.
The ios ui , I don't know... maybe it's great, or maybe people don't care and it isn't. Either way, it has developer mindshare, I haven't heard of devs falling away in droves to android or wp.
If/when you see that mass exidous, something is up.

ohgood said:
complacency= yes, look what that did with wm6.x.
The ios ui , I don't know... maybe it's great, or maybe people don't care and it isn't. Either way, it has developer mindshare, I haven't heard of devs falling away in droves to android or wp.
If/when you see that mass exidous, something is up.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I think with the iPhone, alot of people have invested alot of money in other hardware that works very well with the iPhone.
docking stations, car mounts, chargers, cases, etc.
It's one reason why people stay iPhone customers, once they are iPhone customers.
I even considered buying a new car stereo, because I could not get A2DP Bluetooth audio to play from my iPhone into my Pioneer DEH7000BT car stereo.
I have since found info on how to do it. I made a YouTube video illustrating how. There were a couple not obvious steps. It still isn't perfect. AVRCP does not work (can't control the iPhone - next / prev from the deck) and I need to manually go through a process on the stereo and the phone every time I want to use it.
In the end, the fact that there is app to accomplish almost anything is still the big seller.
We use PGI at work for creating teleconferences. I never can remember my host code or participant codes for others or even the number to dial. Sure enough, on the iPhone, there's an app for that. It starts the conference and calls you either on the iPhone, or a number you enter at the time. It even lets you invite others to the call. And you can store participant codes for others and join with it. It is difficult to join a teleconference on the road without this, because you need to memorize the participant code. Now it is a 1 button deal.
There's an app for webex that streams the video.
The other day, I bought ForumRunner, so that I can post on xda when away. It works great.
When companies make apps, they almost always target the iPhone first.
I really hope that attitude changes with Apollo.
I personally think alot of the restrictions that will remain in place until Apollo has contributed to developer reluctance. Devs know how to dev for iPhone. It has not changed in a long time. They know how to dev for Android. Same thing. Windows Phone 7 prevented devs from doing things the way they knew how to do them. So, it was either relearn alot to get your app to a small percent of the smart phone market. Or just dev for iPhone and Android and see if Windows Phone gains enough market share to care.
I love Windows Phone 7 with Mango. I never would have tried an iPhone if work had not forced me too. And now, I also love using my iPhone. There's a few things that are annoying (AVRCP and dismissing every email). But it does a good job.
Really hoping that when the Apollo SDK is released, we see a surge in quality app development.

But which would you guys choose:
1. iPhone with a grid of boring icons from screen to screen
2. iPhone with a more dynamic UI like Android or Windows Phone
The iPhone sells inspite of the UI, not because. I remember all the rumours floating around that iOS 5 would come out with this dazzling new UI. That was a letdown to me.
I think if a blank slate customer saw 3 phones on display, the iPhone would not grab that customer like the rest. However, there are no blank slate customers.

nicksti said:
But which would you guys choose:
1. iPhone with a grid of boring icons from screen to screen
2. iPhone with a more dynamic UI like Android or Windows Phone
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You're giving the launcher, or home screen, or start, or desktop (whatever) way too much eye-time. No one stares at live tiles, or app lists, for 20 minutes. They use applications, and do things. The app list, tiles, whatever are only an icon, yes a shortcut, to the main event. It doesn't matter if the tile/icon flips in 3D, spins, or does cart wheels, its still very limited in what it can do. You have to access the application to _do_ things.
Let the icons/tiles/shortcuts/whatever debate die.

ohgood said:
You're giving the launcher, or home screen, or start, or desktop (whatever) way too much eye-time. No one stares at live tiles, or app lists, for 20 minutes. They use applications, and do things. The app list, tiles, whatever are only an icon, yes a shortcut, to the main event. It doesn't matter if the tile/icon flips in 3D, spins, or does cart wheels, its still very limited in what it can do. You have to access the application to _do_ things.
Let the icons/tiles/shortcuts/whatever debate die.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I agree with much of this. Turn on the phone do what you want. Move on. I don't turn on my phone to stare at animations because they are cool, just like I don't buy a car because its shiny and red. Anything distracting should not be just to be flashy. It should serve a purpose as well.
But there is something to having the ability to display some information with current data on the icon / tile / widget.
Apple's response is the curtain, which solves most of the problem, but differently.
Constantly seeing 73 degrees and sunny could eaily be replaced with an icon that accurately reflects the current weather conditons for a default or current area. This is one reason people used HTC Sence with the home screen weather. A double wide icon for this would be great.
It would be nice to have the clock icon display the next alarm time, not 10:15:00 or the very least have that on the curtain. A double wide icon for this would be cool too.
An icon for music that reflects the Album art would be nice, but doen't really help you do anything. A contact pic on the email pic for the last unread email would be really cool.
Microsoft solves those problems with Live Tiles and Hubs, but does not solve the problem of seeing all missed notifications in one place. For me, there never has been a time when I missed any notification that was important.
Apple doesn't have any double wide icons. And other than the Calendar, the only thing that can be modified on an icon is a number
I think both Apple and Microsoft have areas to improve on both of these aspects.

ohgood said:
You're giving the launcher, or home screen, or start, or desktop (whatever) way too much eye-time. No one stares at live tiles, or app lists, for 20 minutes. They use applications, and do things. The app list, tiles, whatever are only an icon, yes a shortcut, to the main event. It doesn't matter if the tile/icon flips in 3D, spins, or does cart wheels, its still very limited in what it can do. You have to access the application to _do_ things.
Let the icons/tiles/shortcuts/whatever debate die.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
To each his own, but I rather look at a home screen and see information instead of having to launch something. And widgets and tiles deliver useable information without having to press.
After all, that is the point of Siri right?

nicksti said:
To each his own, but I rather look at a home screen and see information instead of having to launch something. And widgets and tiles deliver useable information without having to press.
After all, that is the point of Siri right?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Useful information is great.
I think most people agee that Siri is more of a cool bell and whistle to get people to buy the iPhone. It's good at somethings, but bad at others. In the end people play with it for a while, and then go about normal phone usage.
Some go so far as thinking each icon on the phone needs to be exciting or unique, but many are really just to launch an app.
I will never want an animated background.
But, useful info on the icons on my iPhone, would be very welcomed.

First time with....well everything almost.

I've been with Sprint for almost 9 years now, and before my Evo 4G in 2010 all I had were the old Nextel i95's...so needless to say I'm at a complete loss with WP7. I tinkered and tailored with Android ROM's for years now and have loved a lot about the OS...but I just couldn't pass up this deal for the Lumia 900 on AT&T. I'm beyond satisfied after having set everything up and loving how tightly knit and integrated a lot of the features are. But I still have some questions:
1) Can i screen capture with the stock rom? I don't want to have to unlock this phone (That was one of the reasons I left Android, you needed to unlock to do ANYTHING)
2) Are there any apps beyond the 3 that use a double tile? Is this a setting somewhere that I'm missing on? Kinda like resizing widgets?
3) Are there different themes, beyond the color switching pallete, that can be used with WP7? And while we're at it, is there a different lockscreen or anything else that can be done from it besides unlocking it? (Such as unlocking to text, email, custom app?)
4) What's up with the notifications disappearing after a while before I get a chance to check em? Is there a way to check them besides going to their respective clients to see what I missed?
5) Can you guys point me towards some alternative apps or settings to replace some of the stock feaures?
6) Besides having to login to AT&T all the time, is there a different way to monitor my data usage? A simple app perhaps?
7) Oh and how could I forget....do I have to go all the way to the settings every time to see what the percentage on my battery is? I found a couple threads saying that you have to unlock the phone for this feature but I refuse to believe that something this simple needs a workaround like that.
Thanks in advance guys, loving this OS and looking forward to some of the changes.

1) Unfortunately not. Most screen captures you see on the net are done using the development software.
2) Tiles sizes are determined by the developers. I wish there was a way of making them single or double too.
3) The colours are the only customisation you can do right now without unlocking the device other than changing the lock screen. The lockscreen I like, as it unlocks to the "desktop" when there is no notifications but if you unlock it as a notification happens then it will take you the application required to see the notification.
Also for some awesome lock screens go to the deviantart website.
4) This is my one and only gripe with WP7. Having said that after unlocking the notication is either facebook or twitter (the only ones not shown on the home screen) and both of those show on my "ME" tile. So really if I want to see anything I missed I go to the "ME" tile and slide across to notifications.
5) What stock features do you need help with?
6) Im not on AT&T and my phone provider has an app to do this so I would be contacting AT&T about this.
7) They do not show a % because its not very accurate I think. This is something I at first hated but I don't care that much any more. This is not like my Samsung Galaxy II which wouldn't last a day. I usually get over a days use out of my Lumia so I don't have to look all the time and be worried. When the love heart goes on the battery I know its getting low but still I have HOURS left.

In terms of number 5 I just meant is there an alternate keyboard, browser, gallery, search feature/marketplace etc. Not that I have a problem with any of these (although I do miss haptic feedback on my keyboard) I just wanted to know if there were alternatives.
EDIT: I do have a problem with ONE of those things I mentioned. The marketplace...it seems too cluttered and feels like the phone is always zoomed in with the way everything looks...but that looks like it was done on purpose.

You.can get two off your list with a Developer unlocked device. Think of it this way. Nokia is giving you a $100 credit because of the data issue. Use it to purchase a legitimate Dev key from Microsoft. Can sideload apps, and also develop with it.
1) can do it with homebrew Screen Capturer app.
2) Only Microsoft or OEMs can develop double wide tiles.
3) Need to have an interop unlocked device to add colors, etc. More involved than dev unlocked and not yet available for the L900.
6) The AT&T myAT&T app will give you the info you need. Nokia is also releasing a data tracking app. Coming soon.
7) Homebrew Battery Meter app. Updates a Live Tile every 10 minutes. Pretty accurate. Good history charts.
Sent from my Lumia 900 using Board Express

There are a few other browsers and such but they are all just front ends for the existing apps supplied with the device. There is also a few marketplace apps which you might find better. I use AppTastic every now and then purely as it shows what's on sale. There might be an app which I don't think is worth $5 or $6 after the trial but would happily purchase to support the developers for a few bucks.

iiDeadSeriousii said:
In terms of number 5 I just meant is there an alternate keyboard, browser, gallery, search feature/marketplace etc. Not that I have a problem with any of these (although I do miss haptic feedback on my keyboard) I just wanted to know if there were alternatives.
EDIT: I do have a problem with ONE of those things I mentioned. The marketplace...it seems too cluttered and feels like the phone is always zoomed in with the way everything looks...but that looks like it was done on purpose.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Well, there are alot of the things that are different. Can't/Won't say if its better because thats a personal choice. I've grown to love the look and feel now. So has my daughter...but my son hates it. I gave them both 2 weeks to like it or I would buy them their next phone. My daughter converted...my son did not, and did not want new phone. But, with that said, there are some things I miss from Android....not much, but some. I do wish Live Tiles were a touch more customizable. I wish I could have some more color schemes instead of the just the current ones. I'd love to have a Black/White and/or Grey/white combination of colors also.
Otherwise....its a matter of just trying and getting used to it. I think it took my daughter 3 days to get used to the tiles and groupings of the hubs and what they are designed for. Her original list of must haves went away....

Thanks for all the help guys, yea I figured that most of my complaints/issues could only be solved with an unlock phone but I figured I'd ask. I've got another question, do apps auto update or do I need to manually check em every time?

Your marketplace tile will have a number on it showing the number of updates available. So no you never need to go check but you do need to initiate the update manually when you see that there is some waiting for update.

Again thanks guys for getting me started with the phone. Just a few more questions:
1) Is there a way to set a tile to immediately turn on/off either Bluetooth or Wifi? Or am I stuck with the default settings tile?
2) Can I save a setting where I don't have to download my pictures every time I open an email? I used to just pit "Always show pictures" on the Android GMail client.
3) I've looked and looked and still cant find a tile to just show battery. Can someone link me to an official one that I don't have to side load?
4) Is the app Bandwidth the only app for network speed test? Its kinda glitchy for me.
5) Is there a way to get that HTC Hub on this Lumia or is that another thing where I gotta unlock the phone? I really like the look of it.
6) Someone mentioned that you can change the lockscreen, or at the very least the wallpaper, how do you do that?
Thanks.

iiDeadSeriousii said:
Again thanks guys for getting me started with the phone. Just a few more questions:
1) Is there a way to set a tile to immediately turn on/off either Bluetooth or Wifi? Or am I stuck with the default settings tile?
2) Can I save a setting where I don't have to download my pictures every time I open an email? I used to just pit "Always show pictures" on the Android GMail client.
3) I've looked and looked and still cant find a tile to just show battery. Can someone link me to an official one that I don't have to side load?
4) Is the app Bandwidth the only app for network speed test? Its kinda glitchy for me.
5) Is there a way to get that HTC Hub on this Lumia or is that another thing where I gotta unlock the phone? I really like the look of it.
6) Someone mentioned that you can change the lockscreen, or at the very least the wallpaper, how do you do that?
Thanks.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Dont know if someone mentioned this, but you're in the droid mentality right now. Like Apple, alot of the framework is locked down. Even with sideloads, alot of the framework is not available. HTC Hub is one of those. MS did not want that kind of screen and they don't allow it. WP is based on Live Tiles and they are sticking with it...for now.
You can change the lock screen pic by going to settings and Lock+Wallpaper. You can change the timeing settings and the picture. If you have a picture you want to use, go to your pictures hub and simply long press on the pic, use as wallpaper is an option.
But mostly, do not expect alot of hack/modding on these phones. For the most part, most of Windows phones, were Android phones at 1 time...ie the Samsung focus line. HD7 was the HD2 line which has been successfully ported to Android and WP7. If you want android type functionality in terms of look and feel...probably not gonna get it here. Of course, I could be wrong....but...who knows.

iiDeadSeriousii said:
Again thanks guys for getting me started with the phone. Just a few more questions:
1) Is there a way to set a tile to immediately turn on/off either Bluetooth or Wifi? Or am I stuck with the default settings tile?
2) Can I save a setting where I don't have to download my pictures every time I open an email? I used to just pit "Always show pictures" on the Android GMail client.
3) I've looked and looked and still cant find a tile to just show battery. Can someone link me to an official one that I don't have to side load?
4) Is the app Bandwidth the only app for network speed test? Its kinda glitchy for me.
5) Is there a way to get that HTC Hub on this Lumia or is that another thing where I gotta unlock the phone? I really like the look of it.
6) Someone mentioned that you can change the lockscreen, or at the very least the wallpaper, how do you do that?
Thanks.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I don't have answers for all of these, but here's a few (and fwiw I agree
with alodar1). But before I begin, not sure if you're aware of the Marketplace online (http://www.windowsphone.com/en-US/marketplace) - might make searching easier as you're starting out.
1) "Settings Tile" is 1 such app (I don't use these, so I can't recommend which one to install, but I've seen this one recommended... *shrug*) http://www.windowsphone.com/en-US/apps/102014a6-156e-4604-8f1a-2a86e4edf191
2 & 3 don't know, sorry
4) TestMyNet works decent: http://www.windowsphone.com/en-US/apps/a25ec139-fc33-4571-9425-cf031a3312bb
5) No, sorry (I had it and never really used it...)
6) Answered above =)
You may also want to check out 'AppFlow' (http://www.windowsphone.com/en-US/apps/578ef361-c265-46b7-b6f4-63cbd7fbefe0) or some similar application recommendation app.

alodar1 said:
Dont know if someone mentioned this, but you're in the droid mentality right now. Like Apple, alot of the framework is locked down. Even with sideloads, alot of the framework is not available. HTC Hub is one of those. MS did not want that kind of screen and they don't allow it. WP is based on Live Tiles and they are sticking with it...for now.
You can change the lock screen pic by going to settings and Lock+Wallpaper. You can change the timeing settings and the picture. If you have a picture you want to use, go to your pictures hub and simply long press on the pic, use as wallpaper is an option.
But mostly, do not expect alot of hack/modding on these phones. For the most part, most of Windows phones, were Android phones at 1 time...ie the Samsung focus line. HD7 was the HD2 line which has been successfully ported to Android and WP7. If you want android type functionality in terms of look and feel...probably not gonna get it here. Of course, I could be wrong....but...who knows.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yea I realize I still kinda am in that mentality. It's just there's so many little things I took for granted that I never realized were there until this happened. I love this platform so far though, I have no major complaints, just small issues with it. But thanks for the tip, yea I know about the HD2 cause the first thing my brother did when he got that a couple years ago was have me put Gingerbread on it lol. I'll stick with what I've got for now tho, this is a ridiculously smooth experience and if I've gotta make some sacrifices, oh well. I still get everything done that I want throughout the day...I just wished some apps were better supported.