Could wp7 apps be unlocked to run on windows. They all run in silverlight right. Should it not be like a java app and run anywhere?
Interesting question. I think the developer would have little problem trying to recompile an app for Windows use (given Silverlight is already installed on the target PC), but XAPs are specifically compiled and signed for use on WP7 devices, and thus we can, at best, run them on a PC by deploying an extracted XAP on the Emulator.
kapanak said:
Interesting question. I think the developer would have little problem trying to recompile an app for Windows use (given Silverlight is already installed on the target PC), but XAPs are specifically compiled and signed for use on WP7 devices, and thus we can, at best, run them on a PC by deploying an extracted XAP on the Emulator.
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If GAC constains required assemblies then it's possible. But it's useless (more than me )...
From what I seem to remember, when you compile for WP7 it compiles into Common Language Runtime. Its much like Java's bytecode but slightly different.
Assuming it does compile to CLR, apps should be able to run, so long as the needed frameworks exist.
windows 8 will do that
I suspect that Windows 8 will do just that. As Microsoft is planning to bring windows 8 to tablets with the Metro UI, i think wp7 apps will be really easy to run on windows 8, so they match the touch UI of the platform...
If you look at Game Chest: Logic Games, it contains a multiplayer game of Chess. If you challenge someone else to a game and they're not using a WP7 device, the notifications of game moves come through to them on xbox.com. When they click the notification, it actually fires up a version of Chess that is IDENTICAL to the one on my phone, in the browser. So it looks to me like they have done exactly what the OP is asking about, i.e. they have recompiled the game to run in silverlight under IE8.
It works brilliantly.
Related
Looks like Silverlight is the platform for creating Windows Phone 7 apps, finally.
http://www.crn.com/software/222900433;jsessionid=ZSTDUKCIARR4FQE1GHPCKHWATMY32JVN
I hope so, SIlverlight rocks, so much better on my PC than Flash but yet it isnt widely adopted, hopefully if WP7S has Silverlight this will boost its use
Finally!
It is indeed a very logical step.
I was trying to make a "fancy" UI on WinMo 6x and it's damn hard (that will work blazing fast). And search for a Silverlight for WinMo... and it was there... and it was showed on the TechEd 08... but never released... and I was like:
-Oh ... come on... how long does it take to port it??!
This is almost like a "duh" story but it's good to have a "source" saying it.
Silverlight will be for lightweight stuff and XNA 3 (4?) will be for Games, etc.
Imagine being able to write one app and have it work on multiple platforms with little or even no code changes. Silverlight supports multi-touch on Windows 7 too.
XNA and Silverlight. No native apps - see attach.
Can you already create SL applications for the WinMo?
DMAND said:
I hope so, SIlverlight rocks, so much better on my PC than Flash but yet it isnt widely adopted, hopefully if WP7S has Silverlight this will boost its use
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Yes silverlight rocks and i am learning it right now.
afma_afma said:
Yes silverlight rocks and i am learning it right now.
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Know any application? Link?
Developing .NET CF on WM6 is a -pain-. Even if you want to do something as simple as draw a transparent image you have to delve into P/Invoke which feels like hacking. If they get .NET development under WP7 working simply and effectively, then I think it will be a great step forward. I've used WPF extensively and it is a great platform to work on. I've no reason to think Silverlight is any different.
My only concern is how they'll restrict the distribution and installation of applications. The openness of the Windows Mobile platform has always been a big draw, and if they do an Apple and try to restrict how I publish and obtain apps then not many people will see a reason to switch from such an established and successful platform.
Okay, so since the unlocked emulator has a file manager and task manager, does that mean it would be possible to extract them and run them on an actual WP7S device? And if that was possible, would it also be possible to extract the Native APIs from these apps? I'm fairly certain that they use Native APIs because ordinary apps can only access their own directory. I'm not very smart with these things, so sorry if it's obviously impossible or something.
It's wince - the native API is always there, where do you want to extract it from? Also some people figured out most WP7 apps from the emulator ROM are written in native as well. it's always here.
But you can't just put file manager on a WP7 device because there's no access for you to put anything on it, except apps from Marketplace you got the picture? even if we could cook our custom ROMs in the future the only thing we could do is throw in our own DLLs, services or background tools on it and customize it a little. I still doubt you'd be able to develop real WP7 style apps like a file manager or registry editor because the GUI is supposed to be written in Silverlight/XNA. And from those frameworks you can't access the native API unless Microsoft would add support for it.
101% dumb phone. If you think about it then WP7 is even WORSE then iphone.
But what if you could use Visual Studio to load it onto the device? If you look around in it, there is an option for that.
Actual devices will have to be unlocked for developement purposes to allow sideloading through Visual Studio and even then I doubt the system would be able to deploy native code. Developer phone means a yearly fee for membership in the MS developer programm.
I don't think that using native APIs from managed code would be impossible in the SDK - carriers, e.g. will be allowed to use it, but for normal applications the Security Context in .Net would prevent the programm from calling them (Code Security Managers are configurably available in Java and .Net from the beginning, so i believe that would be what MS uses to block access).
And of course programs using those wouldn't get on the marketplace.
Oh, too bad then, but thanks for your response anyway!
Fdo35 said:
Okay, so since the unlocked emulator has a file manager and task manager, does that mean it would be possible to extract them and run them on an actual WP7S device? And if that was possible, would it also be possible to extract the Native APIs from these apps? I'm fairly certain that they use Native APIs because ordinary apps can only access their own directory. I'm not very smart with these things, so sorry if it's obviously impossible or something.
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Okay, the issue here is the lack of a few key DLLs: Windows 7 Series will not offer GDI most likely (I'm downloading the emulator set now, and will confirm this soon) and will lack comctl32.dll and the like, removing these functions. As it's been stated before, like Windows 7 uses the 6.1 NT Kernel, Windows Phone 7 series uses the 6.5 Windows CE kernel, at least, last that I've heard. It would then be both possible to bring Windows Mobile 6.5 DLLs over, but anything that calls GDI will not work. Solution? Make a mock GDI that uses the new render.
This isn't new either, Windows 7 uses WPF more than ever (Which composes most of the games as well as Windows Media Center), which is a 3D accelerated and fancier way to draw to the screen, and Windows 7's GDI subset has been updated to allow hardware acceleration granted the graphics card allows it (It's actually something the video card driver must tell Windows, as MSDN states)
Deploy native code, no. Run it, of course
I'll be investigating the possibility of native code here shortly. Chances are, you will need to set the target to ARMV6, and set the compile type to Native, not Windows. Most developers, if not all, probably have overlooked this.
I would expect that it'll require privileged access to run native code, so you'll need to solve the code signing problem.
ThymeCypher said:
Okay, the issue here is the lack of a few key DLLs: Windows 7 Series will not offer GDI most likely (I'm downloading the emulator set now, and will confirm this soon) and will lack comctl32.dll and the like, removing these functions. As it's been stated before, like Windows 7 uses the 6.1 NT Kernel, Windows Phone 7 series uses the 6.5 Windows CE kernel, at least, last that I've heard. It would then be both possible to bring Windows Mobile 6.5 DLLs over, but anything that calls GDI will not work. Solution? Make a mock GDI that uses the new render.
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Well, I doubt things like comctl.dll and some other things like GWES will be that big of an issue once Platform Builder 7 is released and we can just generate these components ourselves. Hell, adding back GDI support (if those rumors aren't just lies) may be as easy as replacing the GWES with a less crippled one generated by Platform Builder. Maybe GDI support is still compiled in but just doesn't output directly to the screen using the default graphics driver implementation. That's how the Dreamcast implementation of Windows CE was. To even see apps like IE on the screen, you need to copy the contents of the standard WinCE GDI output to a DirectDraw surface.
What I'm more worried about is the hackability of the hardware/software. I'm really hoping it's not as insanely locked down to the point to being unhackable like every Zune.
do you think Platform builder is still available for WP7? Since MS won't allow the OEMs to modify the OS I doubt that. Do you have a source? You've seen an announcement from MS or something?
RAMMANN said:
do you think Platform builder is still available for WP7? Since MS won't allow the OEMs to modify the OS I doubt that. Do you have a source? You've seen an announcement from MS or something?
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Platformbuilder is for the OS, which is Windows CE. There is still some debate as to what version the emulator is running, leaving alone the possibility that the actual version of the OS may be different at release.
If the CE6R3 camp is right, you can get platform builder for that right now, though you wont have telshell.exe (WP7 replacement for explorer.exe), and the WP7 specific apps. It would be an interesting exercise to see if they could be run on CE6R3. If no one beats me to the punch, I plan on trying this for myself when I am less swamped at work.
If the CE7 camp is right, you will have to wait till MS releases that version to the public. And they WILL release it because there are far too many embedded systems outside of phones that run on CE for them to neglect it.
No, I was talking about the generic Windows CE 7.0 Platform Builder and not the OEM specific OAK for WP7S. Unless MS plans to completely drop their generic Embedded Windows CE offerings, I see no reason why PB 7.0 will not be released and help with hacking WP7S (if it is even based on 7.0). You always needed to be a large ODM and sing an NDA to use a Platform Builder addon/OAK for the MS platforms like Pocket PC. Those almost never leak and I can't imagine this would be much different.
RAMMANN said:
do you think Platform builder is still available for WP7? Since MS won't allow the OEMs to modify the OS I doubt that. Do you have a source? You've seen an announcement from MS or something?
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Yes, platform builder was used to build leaked wp7 arm image.
d:\wm700_6176\platform\common\src
\soc\qcom_v1\oal\power\sleep.c
It is from from nk.exe
use dumpbin.exe to get all methods in dll/exe
Just a discussion came up and made me wonder if this is even possable. This is the place to ask, so here we go.
All WP7 models seem to run at 1ghz or higher, thinking the concept that WM 6.5 runs pretty well on hardware that runs at 400-528mhz range. Would it be possable to have a emulator that runs on the platform so you can run 6.1/6.5 on a WP7 phone ? This would allow you to be able to run some older apps with still having WP7.
I would not expect intense games (maybe a card game ok) to run at full speed or anything but, things like Remote desktop and other base apps might be ok with this.
This type of thing would run on any phone (with 1ghz+ hardware) just depending on if all the hardware is supported.
Or I guess there might be a way to "shut down" 7 and open 6.5 kind of how Android runs on the TP2.
The emulator idea came up because it might be able to run on any model with minor updates vs. a boot up just for one phone.
Just some ideas...even if it is possable.
Thanks for reading and dreaming (well I am still waiting for a Verizon WP7 phone)
No sorry, the emulator runs on the x86 architecture, not on ARM.
Dave
DaveShaw said:
No sorry, the emulator runs on the x86 architecture, not on ARM.
Dave
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Maybe I'm misreading the original question, but it sounds like he is asking if it were possible to have an app that would run old Windows Mobile apps, kind of like Classic on WebOS.
well at present we (3rd party) developers wouldn't be able to make something like this as all the APIs don't actually exist. someone with knowledge of the whole code base of windows phone 7 could probably do it but i doubt we'll see it happen. if there are programs you need on windows phone 7, it is definitely faster to just have it redone. it's really only the UI that needs redoing, if it was written in VB or C#, a lot of the code will still work.
today I talked about the RT OS with ffriends.Suddenly one said that win8 os pad can run on Windows RT and a RT OS PAD can run on win8 x86！！he is joking ！！Besides，he said he did that successfully for many times。。。。。
seven7xiaoyang said:
today I talked about the RT OS with ffriends.Suddenly one said that win8 os pad can run on Windows RT and a RT OS PAD can run on win8 x86！！he is joking ！！Besides，he said he did that successfully for many times。。。。。
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No it cannot. Your friend clearly lacks the common knowledge that RT is for ARM and windows 8 is for x86. Round pegs do not fit square holes.
I can't really understand your English; did you mean "app" where you wrote "pad"? The fact that Win8 and WRT share apps is well known; there are a few apps which are only for one platform or the other but almost all the apps are available for both. Native code apps need to be recompiled for the other platform, but managed (.NET) and HTML5 apps will run un-modified. This is not news.
If you mean the ability to run some x86 desktop apps unmodified on Windows RT, that's due to mamaich's emulation layer, combined with clrokr's "jailbreak" exploit (and usually netham45's scripts to automate the process). Relatively few apps run correctly through that emulation layer, though, and the new Windows Store apps are not supported. There is no support that I'm aware of for running ARM-compiled Windows apps on x86, although ARM emulators certainly do exist and if you could boot Windows RT on one of them, that would allow you to run the apps (somewhat indirectly).
If you mean actually installing Win8 (or any other x86 OS) on Windows RT, that's technically possible through the use of emulators (not sure DOSbox supports enough CPU features for Win8, but Bochs probably does) but the performance is abysmal.
GoodDayToDie said:
I can't really understand your English; did you mean "app" where you wrote "pad"? The fact that Win8 and WRT share apps is well known; there are a few apps which are only for one platform or the other but almost all the apps are available for both. Native code apps need to be recompiled for the other platform, but managed (.NET) and HTML5 apps will run un-modified. This is not news.
If you mean the ability to run some x86 desktop apps unmodified on Windows RT, that's due to mamaich's emulation layer, combined with clrokr's "jailbreak" exploit (and usually netham45's scripts to automate the process). Relatively few apps run correctly through that emulation layer, though, and the new Windows Store apps are not supported. There is no support that I'm aware of for running ARM-compiled Windows apps on x86, although ARM emulators certainly do exist and if you could boot Windows RT on one of them, that would allow you to run the apps (somewhat indirectly).
If you mean actually installing Win8 (or any other x86 OS) on Windows RT, that's technically possible through the use of emulators (not sure DOSbox supports enough CPU features for Win8, but Bochs probably does) but the performance is abysmal.
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sorry for my poor English!:crying:.I meant the os not the APP
seven7xiaoyang said:
sorry for my poor English!:crying:.I meant the os not the APP
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You cannot install Windows 8 x86 directly onto Windows RT hardware. It doesn't work.
You probably saw someone RDPing to an x86 desktop.
netham45 said:
You cannot install Windows 8 x86 directly onto Windows RT hardware. It doesn't work.
You probably saw someone RDPing to an x86 desktop.
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Thank you! I am thinking about the sideloadling the appx,hope for some help
OK, I'm still not sure what you're talking about - just a couple posts up, you said you weren't talking about apps, and now you're talking about .APPX files - but as was mentioned above, most APPX files will be architecture independent (managed code or HTML5); only the native code ones will need different .APPX files for Win8 and RT.
Hello my name is Filiph Sandström but you can call me filfat. in this thread we are going to talk about the current state of Java and OpenGl on Windows RT(8/8.1),but before we start i just want to say thank you for clicking on this thread and if it helped you remember to click the "Thanks" Button! Alright with that cleared out, lets start! :laugh:
Updated: 2013-11-18
Java
Java is a programming langue that develops by Oracle with the idea of one similar langue for all electronics like a dishwasher or a Microwave.
Currently java does NOT exist on Windows RT, but there is a workaround available. The workaround is called Ikvm.
Ikvm is a Java emulator developed in .NET/C# to migrate an existing Java database application to .NET langue.
however to our advantage it can be used to run *almost* any Java application that doesn't require a 3rd-part library like "lwjgl" or similar.
I'm sure that there's a lot of guides out there on how to run application but i will give you a example anyways:
Run_Java.bat
Info:
Code:
This Example executes the jar file "helloworld.jar"
Code:
Code:
@ECHO OFF
ikvm -jar helloworld.jar
To Summarize: We now have basic Java application's running on our Windows RT device, but what if we want to play a game,
or do something that require OpenGL. well here is where the OpenGL section steps in.
OpenGL
OpenGL is a way of rendering not just 3D things but about everything, it is currently the most widespread 2D and 3D API(application programming interface).
It is used in many games and application. Sadly Windows RT do not have support for this as the desktop mode was never intended to use to other things then Office and well, maybe paint .
So what do we do in a situation like this, where most of the games and applications doesn't run because of OpenGL.
We write a OpenGL to DriectX Warpper*. so in short running games like Minecraft is possible BUT it require a OpenGL to DriectX Wrapper which currently does not exist. so you CANNOT run Minecraft or any other Game/Application that require OpenGL yet...
To Summarize: We do know a possible way to run OpenGL on Windows RT however no one as of yet have taken that mission and started working on a OpenGL to DriectX Wrapper. We would also need to modify Ikvm to be able to load external library's but that's a whole other story.
Ending
Thank you for reading, and as I said in the beginning of the post "if it helped you remember to click the "Thanks" Button!".
Also, i will be adding more info when I got time or when things gets release. See Ya! :laugh:
*When i say wrapper I mean a translator that translate OpenGL code to DirectX code for the CPU
Comming Soon...
Reserved
Sources
Sources
Java
Ikvm
OpenGL
A Word To A Moderator
if you think this thread is useful consider making it a sticky
I thought we already had an OpenGL wrapper for RT. At least that's what I believe is used to make Quake 1 and 3 run:
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=2312019
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showpost.php?p=42338198&postcount=1
Yeah, there already is an OpenGL>DX wrapper. It wasn't used for quake 1 though, the quake 1 RT port is based on DirectQ which had its renderer rewritten for DirectX, was used in Quake 3 I think.
IKVM cannot load LWJGL or other similar libraries on x86. ARM isn't the limitation, OpenGL with the wrapper potentially wouldnt be the limitation either. IKVM itself is. Its an old project and if it was ever going to get native code execution it would have by now.
Although I think java applications on IKVM can make use of .NET extensions which in turn can make use of native code so one could potentially write an IKVM port of LWJGL which on the java side exposes the same API so minecraft etc couldnt tell the difference, but under the hood taps into .NET for rendering. That would probably result in a bit of a mess which may not actually run in the first place. The efforts put into making and debugging such a thing would be better put into porting the jvm itself.
Unless we got a native JVM on RT, I dont think we will see minecraft. Even if you could get LWJGL running, IKVM is just way too slow either way and as it is, the surface is quite a slow device, minecraft on a real JVM on ARM will still be laggy.
Just tossing this out there but what about compiling OpenJDK for arm? It's a pretty active project
http://openjdk.java.net/
I'm a software developer and will try and give this a shot over my Thanksgiving / Christmas downtime. I have an Asus VivoTab still on Win 8 while I wait for the 8.1 jailbreak. Guess Im starting to get bored and kind of ticked that the microsoft store sucks.
Edit:
Added info for reference later
Minecraft Ubuntu ARM
Edit 2:
Build Instructions
http://lwjgl.org/
Webos running guide
Thexfactor2011 said:
Just tossing this out there but what about compiling OpenJDK for arm? It's a pretty active project
http://openjdk.java.net/
I'm a software developer and will try and give this a shot over my Thanksgiving / Christmas downtime. I have an Asus VivoTab still on Win 8 while I wait for the 8.1 jailbreak. Guess Im starting to get bored and kind of ticked that the microsoft store sucks.
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Then check developement forum and forget about it. There's no mingw/gcc targetting windows/arm. I think that this should be posted sticky on both RT forums.