[Q] Term meanings - EVO 4G Q&A, Help & Troubleshooting

Hey Im kinda new. I tried search but could find out what some stuff meant.
Im trying to find some explanation or a thread that says what these mean.
So i dont know what HAVS, BFS, CFS, SBC terms like that mean.
Help?
Thank You

Jester123 said:
Hey Im kinda new. I tried search but could find out what some stuff meant.
Im trying to find some explanation or a thread that says what these mean.
So i dont know what HAVS, BFS, CFS, SBC terms like that mean.
Help?
Thank You
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
These links here should have 99.9% of all the info you'll need to get started, and help you understand some things. Most of the good info is right in the first post of each of these links/threads. Read up!
Here is a good link about kernels, and has a link in there about SBC kernels (superior battery charging), which basically trickle charges the battery. It's controversial, and you should read up and understand SBC kernels before trying one, if you choose to. (i dont use them)
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=894880&highlight=SBC+Kernels
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=790427
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=719763
http://htcevorooting.x10.mx/wiki/index.php?title=Terminology
And here is a quick definition of HAVS, taken from Netarchy's thread, in the OP.
"Havs: Hybrid Adaptive Voltage Scaling, basically tries to undervolt as much as possible to conserve power, but adapts to things like cpu load and temperature."
"No Havs: Static voltage scaling, every cpu speed pulls a specific amount of power from the battery"
And here is a snippet I pulled from the first link I posted for you. Describes CFS vs BFS.
"With kernels, what is BFS and CFS? Which would work better for my phone?
Answer: CFS stands for Completely Fair Scheduler. BFS stands for Brain **** Scheduler (sounds fun, right?). These are two different ways that the phone's CPU uses to schedule events. Without getting into the technicalities, here is what I have found for my Evo. Your mileage may vary and again, you have to experiment to find which works better for your particular phone.
CFS: Generally more consistent, use when you want consistent performance and/or if BFS kernels do not work well with your phone. Sometimes will appear to be smoother than a BFS kernel in overall use. The stock HTC kernel uses CFS and it is more standard than BFS.
BFS: Generally a bit faster but a bit more inconsistent (might appear to slow down more and such). Usually faster overall performance but will not look as smooth as a CFS kernel (in general).
Another way to put it, CFS is closer to a flat line, if you drew a performance map it would have less peaks and more consistency. With BFS, there would be more peaks and higher peaks with the faster readings and lower peaks with the slower.
You will find that one or the other may work better for you, or fit your needs better. It is a good idea to try both and see your results. My phone seems to heavily favor CFS kernels and I like the overall smoothness and consistency better. To me, BFS often appears to be more laggy than a CFS kernel. Again, each phone is different though and my results may not match yours. "

Hey thank you that helped a lot!

Jester123 said:
Hey thank you that helped a lot!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You're very welcome.

Ill cover the last one for you.
SBC is a mod the the way the battery chargers. The stock charging method is your phone charges up to 100% then stops. The battery then drains until its at 90% then starts charging again. (and repeats this until you take it off) With the mod the battery charges up to 100%, (4.2v) then it only puts as much current into the battery as your phone is using. (Whats being put in - whats being taken = 0 net charge. So when you take your phone of the charger, you are always at 100 %. With Htc's method, you could be anywhere between 90 and 100%. There is no substantial proof the SBC causes harm, but it is possible, as such there is a warning when using any SBC modded kernel to use at your own risk.

aimbdd said:
Ill cover the last one for you.
SBC is a mod the the way the battery chargers. The stock charging method is your phone charges up to 100% then stops. The battery then drains until its at 90% then starts charging again. (and repeats this until you take it off) With the mod the battery charges up to 100%, (4.2v) then it only puts as much current into the battery as your phone is using. (Whats being put in - whats being taken = 0 net charge. So when you take your phone of the charger, you are always at 100 %. With Htc's method, you could be anywhere between 90 and 100%. There is no substantial proof the SBC causes harm, but it is possible, as such there is a warning when using any SBC modded kernel to use at your own risk.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Buckley covered it in the first part of his reply, and included links to the SBC discussion threads so the OP could decide for himself if he wanted to use it.

Related

How does SetCPU harm HAVS?

If the point of HAVS if to regulate voltage, etc. Wouldn't using SetCPU, well profiles in SetCPU, work with HAVS? Example:
I have a profile set to minimize frequencies from 128-245 mhz when screen is off. If HAVS worked with these frequencies to lower voltage, wouldn't keeping the frequency threshold between those two numbers keep HAVS maintaining a lower voltage?
I see a lot of people saying not to use SetCPU profiles with kernels that include HAVS, but never really explanation why.
Also, If one would decide to only use a profile while the phone was charging, that would have no effect on HAVS when the phone is unplugged, correct? I want to be able to switch the CPU governor to ondemand while the phone is charging so I can get the maximum performance, but when it's not charging to just go back to the kernel default, which is conservative. If using profiles negatively effects the performance of HAVS, can I just use a charging profile without negatively effecting HAVS?
Explanations people!
Snap 7.6 (which has nHAVS) works fine with SetCPU, and you're encouraged to use SetCPU. I don't know where you're seeing this "Don't use SetCPU!" stuff, but it's probably just people who are trying to prevent a deluge of complaints about their phones acting wonky.
Use SetCPU. The worst that can happen... Is your phone acts wonky/poor battery life. Make sure to NOT check the "Set at boot" options in SetCPU while you're testing!
drmacinyasha said:
Snap 7.6 (which has nHAVS) works fine with SetCPU, and you're encouraged to use SetCPU. I don't know where you're seeing this "Don't use SetCPU!" stuff, but it's probably just people who are trying to prevent a deluge of complaints about their phones acting wonky.
Use SetCPU. The worst that can happen... Is your phone acts wonky/poor battery life. Make sure to NOT check the "Set at boot" options in SetCPU while you're testing!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Figured as much. Thanks!
Ya know, I never understood why people were saying not to use SetCPU with HAVS kernels either especially since, like, for example, Calkulin highly recommends SetCPU for use with his ROM and that comes packed with Kings #10 nowadays. I figure if Calk (or any other reputable ROM/kernel dev) says to do it he's probably saying it for your benefit. Now, on to find a real reason as to why or why not
I think that what is meant is that you don't have to use SetCPU because HAVS already reduces voltage to the processor when it isn't being used. Using SetCPU profiles won't mess anything up, but it is redundant to do so if the HAVS kernel is already controlling the amount of juice that goes into the processor at any given time.
Please note this is a hypothesis. I am not an expert by any means. If someone knows any better, please clarify, because I have been curious about this, too.
rugedraw said:
I think that what is meant is that you don't have to use SetCPU because HAVS already reduces voltage to the processor when it isn't being used. Using SetCPU profiles won't mess anything up, but it is redundant to do so if the HAVS kernel is already controlling the amount of juice that goes into the processor at any given time.
Please note this is a hypothesis. I am not an expert by any means. If someone knows any better, please clarify, because I have been curious about this, too.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
It makes sense, but isn't HAVS only a voltage regulator? Using SetCPU to lower frequencies should theoretically compliment HAVS especially with screen off profiles as to keep the voltage low with HAVS, and frequencies low with SetCPU. I know that Android/CPUs clock down when idle or when the screen is off, but their maximum frequencies aren't lowered as well are they? Using SetCPU to set a maximum frequency that's low should be even better. That's my take anyway.
Here is a comparison someone did with SetCPU and various kernels and went so far as to say they've read several places that using SetCPU in conjunction with 'newer' kernels may be counterproductive, since the inclusion of HAVS. However, I haven't been able to find that many posts to backup this claim. That or I just suck at searching. lol
http://androidforums.com/evo-4g-all-things-root/179761-kernels-setcpu-battery-comparison.html
I'll run a test
hayabusa1300cc said:
i use the dc compaitble one and i love it the best
there is one i want to try today, its
netarchy-toastmod-5.0-cfs-havs-preview-universal-signed
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Okay. Been running the Netarchy CFS HAVS 4.1.9.1 universal kernal in conjunction with set cpu and using Virus Anthrax v4.....battery life is bad so far. I don't know how it could be better on anyone else's phone either. I have set CPU set to minimal settings (profiles) and conservative. My up time (display)has been around an 45 min total. One call and a couple of MMS sent. My power manager settings keep the screen set to 80 on battery power. Total time 7 hours with 32 percent remaining.
Wifi, 4G, GPS, and push are TURNED OFF. Nothing that drains battery above normal system apps, is running.
This is not a good Kernal UNLESS........its because I just started using it this morning with my first run through of the battery being fully charged and the stats reset at the time of full charge.
So the question is:
How long should we run a kernal after:
1. Installing it
2. Starting with fresh 100% battery charge
3. Wiping battery stats.
Does it need one drain and one full charge before you throw the kernal to the dogs?
Should set CPU be disabled / uninstalled after HAVS kernals are flashed? I think I remember reading somewhere that you should not use set CPU with HAVS kernals. It doesnt make sense to me as set CPU sets the clock frequency and HAVS is for voltage scaling?
Im going to try and recharge the phone tonight after full run down and disable the set on boot setting for set CPU.
Anyone have any answer on this?
-JZ
Well my understanding is that havs and setcpu do the same thing sorta, depending on how you set your profiles up. Because havs underclocks while the screen is off, which can be done with setcpu, and if you set setcpu to conservative then you might be getting the same affect you would get from havs. Having them both run is like overkill, your phone would be doing double the work for the same results.
Battery still gonna be a pain while the screen is on so it's not like both of these will drastically increase battery life while in use. It'll just manage the battery alot better while the phone is idle.
ms79723 said:
Well my understanding is that havs and setcpu do the same thing sorta, depending on how you set your profiles up. Because havs underclocks while the screen is off, which can be done with setcpu, and if you set setcpu to conservative then you might be getting the same affect you would get from havs. Having them both run is like overkill, your phone would be doing double the work for the same results.
Battery still gonna be a pain while the screen is on so it's not like both of these will drastically increase battery life while in use. It'll just manage the battery alot better while the phone is idle.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Hmm.. I should probably do some more reading on HAVS, because if it is responsible for regulating clock frequencies as well, then it would be counterproductive. HOWEVER, if HAVS does indeed regulate clock frequencies, the question would be what is the minimum/maximum frequency that our current HAVS kernel allows when the phone is asleep or idle? Because on my SetCPU profile, it is 128/245MHz for screen off.
freeza said:
Hmm.. I should probably do some more reading on HAVS, because if it is responsible for regulating clock frequencies as well, then it would be counterproductive. HOWEVER, if HAVS does indeed regulate clock frequencies, the question would be what is the minimum/maximum frequency that our current HAVS kernel allows when the phone is asleep or idle? Because on my SetCPU profile, it is 128/245MHz for screen off.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I don't set my set cpu that low because, again......I read this somewhere....., set CPU with frequencies below 384 will disable the WIFI. Sounds wacky.....I know...if there is any truth to this let me know. I guess I could check to see if the WIFI enables after the screen off.....eg....its looking for the ip....
Great idea on a thread OP. Its obvious we need a place to gather some real information from reliable sourses on:
1. SET CPU and its use with newer Kernals / Kernals with HAVS in them
2. Are the newer kernals so evolved that set CPU is no longer needed. (I'd love that as Im a bit tired of setting my profiles every time I flash a ROM)
jasonziter said:
I don't set my set cpu that low because, again......I read this somewhere....., set CPU with frequencies below 384 will disable the WIFI. Sounds wacky.....I know...if there is any truth to this let me know. I guess I could check to see if the WIFI enables after the screen off.....eg....its looking for the ip....
Great idea on a thread OP. Its obvious we need a place to gather some real information from reliable sourses on:
1. SET CPU and its use with newer Kernals / Kernals with HAVS in them
2. Are the newer kernals so evolved that set CPU is no longer needed. (I'd love that as Im a bit tired of setting my profiles every time I flash a ROM)
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I have my WiFi turned on and connected to my home network all the time and have never noticed it shutting itself off or disconnecting with my frequencies that low
I don't think SetCPU will ever be obsolete unless devs compile a kernel that can automatically do the following:
-set max frequency to higher than default. (but probably wont for max compatibility reasons, since no evos are made equal and that said frequency is guaranteed to work with all evos.)
-set minimum frequency to the lowest possible without adverse reaction.
-dynamically change governor based on either charge state/load state/or remaining battery life.
-dynamically change max/min clock frequencies based on either charge state/or remaining battery life.
SetCPU will probably always be in my bag of must haves, BUT if there is proof that using profiles negatively effects HAVS, I will just remove the screen off profile. With netarchy's 4.1.9.1cfs kernel, conservative governor is the default, and SetCPU allows me to change governor to ondemand with a profile of charging/full. This is perfect.
Speaking of HAVS and SetCPU, a snippet from the common misconceptions thread:
If using a kernel with HAVS, you do not need SetCPU to under clock. That is exactly what HAVS does, lowers voltages when your phone is idling. You are defeating the purpose by using SetCPU. This is why Kingklick himself tells everyone not to use SetCPU with his kernels.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=790427
There's quite a bit of information in the Ultimate Kernel Review here ...
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=790559
In a recent post, the author (skydeaner), posts his own personal settings which include Kings #9 (havs) and SetCPU ...
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showpost.php?p=8465730&postcount=104
Nice post man. Finally... some real info to use. I think I'm going to airborne virus with kk9.
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One King hasn't said to NOT use SetCPU, he said that setting profiles in it might interfere with his kernels sometimes and cause a slight conflict. You still have to use setcpu for overclocking your phone.
Also this snipit is from the other well known Dev in his Rom thread.
Calkulin said:
I think some people have forgotten what HAVS/AVS actually do. They voltage scale based on CPU speed, so SetCPU shouldn't interfere with HAVS/AVS since it can only control CPU speed/governor not voltage.
Now if SetCPU gets updated and starts controlling voltage then we'll see issues with HAVS/AVS kernels
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
palmdude said:
Calc thanks! But for simple people like us could clarify what it is better in terms of battery life, setcpu installed or uninstalled (on king#10)?
This is what we were guessing/debating
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Click to collapse
Caulkin said:
Installed since it gives you better control over which governor to use and the parameters for that governor. Plus let's not forget the benefit of profiles which if done right, will improve performance & battery life.
But on a side note, here's what I've noticed for the 2 main kernels here on my phone
King's kernel is better on battery life but Netarchy's kernel has a better overall smoothness feel
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
sgt. slaughter said:
One King hasn't said to NOT use SetCPU, he said that setting profiles in it might interfere with his kernels sometimes and cause a slight conflict. You still have to use setcpu for overclocking your phone.
Also this snipit is from the other well known Dev in his Rom thread.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
+1 on all of those points.
I just got my Evo not too long ago, so I am still trying to figure out all of the SetCPU/HAVS/OC/UV nonsense to try and optimize my battery.
I am trying to translate all of the information this thread provides (plus all linked threads and relevant searches) in to stupid (the only language I understand)
HAVS and SetCPU can be used together (in theory) because
HAVS only effects voltage
SetCPU only effects processor speed
Anecdotally HAVS is a little wonkier than a non-HAVS kernel (from a benchmarking perspective)
Anecdotally HAVS and SetCPU have not returned the expected increase in battery life (possibly due to redundancy)
All should be taken with a grain of salt as each evo is a little different
In theory, Kings or Netarchy + SetCPU should equal great battery life when on standby (and depending on OC options should help when in use as well)
---
Is that an adequate translation to stupid?
Psichi said:
I just got my Evo not too long ago, so I am still trying to figure out all of the SetCPU/HAVS/OC/UV nonsense to try and optimize my battery.
I am trying to translate all of the information this thread provides (plus all linked threads and relevant searches) in to stupid (the only language I understand)
HAVS and SetCPU can be used together (in theory) because
HAVS only effects voltage
SetCPU only effects processor speed
Anecdotally HAVS is a little wonkier than a non-HAVS kernel (from a benchmarking perspective)
Anecdotally HAVS and SetCPU have not returned the expected increase in battery life (possibly due to redundancy)
All should be taken with a grain of salt as each evo is a little different
In theory, Kings or Netarchy + SetCPU should equal great battery life when on standby (and depending on OC options should help when in use as well)
---
Is that an adequate translation to stupid?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Well without the kernels, setcpu can help a lot when on standby. But Havs is now being focused on when the screen is on, and undervolting to help save battery while you are currently using your phone. Check out Netarchy's universal kernels, the more aggressive undervolting ones and then go to one of king's kernels and you'll see a huge difference between battery drain while the phone is on from the kernels. The more aggressive undervolting kernels hold on to that battery like there's no tomorrow.

[Q] netarchy-toastmod 4.3 cfs-nonhavs-noUV-sbc

netarchy-toastmod 4.3 cfs-nonhavs-noUV-sbc is what i want to use on my phone, because i heard it was good for my siedeo 3500 batt.
my question is is this a stable version now?
do i still have to downgrade nv and pri?
I am using stock htc 15 now and know its not charging my batt all the way
I have tried a lot of kernels already just not this one and I know I could buy and external charger or use a backup batt. but if this kernel works that would be great, I know I don't want HAVS or colin batt tweak.
So what do you guys think is this a good kerenl? is it the best version without havs. and will it charge my siedo 3500mah batt.
Thank You
btw im using mikfroyo 4.5
I don't think 4.3 was ever a "stable release," the stable is 4.3.1. I have run that kernel with no issues, but I mostly use 4.3.2 CFS or Ziggy's 012111. You're going to get mixed answers on sbc though. I have excellent results from following these instructions to get my battery to last longer without using SBC:
1. Charge till at 100% and the light turns green.
2. Unplug until the light comes off and turn off the phone.
3. Plug the cable in until the light comes on and turns green.
4. Unplug until the light goes off
5. Repeat 4 and 5 a total of 10x
If you do that, your battery will stay at 100% longer. Mine took about 15min to loose 1% the first time I did it.
You might also want to boot into recovery after the first time you do this and wipe battery stats, then let the battery run allllll the way down. After doing this, even if you don't do the above every time, it may drop initially once off the charger to 95% or so, but it should last MUCH longer on idle. But if you want it to last longer at 100%, you have to follow the above steps.
I have gotten about the same results with most Kernels using this method. Net's are certainly good, however, no one can tell you what kernel is best for you as every phone is different. I would dl a few different versions of Net's (4.3.2, 4.3.1, 4.3, etc) in whatever config you want (no havs) and start with the newest one. If that doesn't work, go one version older and stop once you find one that provides performance you're happy with.
Sorry if any of this doesn't make sense. I'm tired and I have been proof reading crap all day so I'm not about to read this again.
thank you for the fast response if i would've just read better i would have relalized that 4.3 wasn't stable it even said it on the link lol. Anyway I installed 4.3.1 sbc-cfs nohavs and am now charging up i got 31 hours on htc15 with my 3500mah and now lets see what this kernel lets me get.
anyway will post back my results
system is mikfroyo 4.5
kernel sbc-4.3.1 cfs nohavs
sideo 3500mah batt
setcpu with 1113mhz max and 128 min
screen off profile only(set at 245mhz max/min)
380mb of system space and 7.30 sd card space
monitoring batt with battery monitor widget with alarm set for fully charged.
newest radios and nv/pri(do i downgrade to 1.77pri/nv with this kernel?)
any way charging now will post results when battery is almost dead with screen shots and prolly a youtube video as well.
4.3.1 are considered stable releases that i am aware of
Where can I find the net sbc kernwels
go here and click on the sbc thread link at the very first post and choose the one you want it starts with beta and more towards the bottom are the stable ones.
go here and click on the sbc thread link at the very first post and choose the one you want it starts with beta and more towards the bottom are the stable ones.
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=719763
Ah thanks. I've been on that thread dozens of times and never saw that lol
Sent from my evo 4g
@op, i'm curious, why the need to overclock? What are you using that actually benefits from this?
I'm actually underclocking @ 921Mhz to achieve a bit more batt lift (same battery).
well its not a high overclock and just to increase speed of loads and surfing a bit, I bought the extended battery so I can actually use it.

[Q] What is the best kernals for Cyanogen mod 7 rc4

Hi I've been looking around to find good kernals while running cyanogen mod 7 rc4. Some of the kernals I install like netatchy gives the screen a weird flickering. Can someone suggest a good kernal that's overclockable and stable. Thanks
Netarcys kernel really isn't for cm7 that's probably why its flickering. You should try savage zens latest sbc or non sbc kernel or tiamats sbc kernel both are pretty good. I'm running the tiamat sbc 3.3.4(great battery life) and I'm pretty happy with it.
Tiamat link. Be sure to get the evo version because he does kernels for the incredible also.
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=972746
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Thanks! Ill try them and I'm kinda new to kernals so what is the difference between SBC and no SBC
chvezsd said:
Thanks! Ill try them and I'm kinda new to kernals so what is the difference between SBC and no SBC
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
In a nutshell, sbc is a method of charging that allows you to "fully"(trickle) charge your battery. Normal kernels really only let you charge to about 90% for safety measures; while sbc lets you fully charge letting your battery completely fill. There's a few threads that talk about it if you search around to get more "details". I've been using them for months without any problems whatsoever. Good luck
Honestly I get great performance out of the stock kernel.
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Thanks, I just flashed the tiamat 3.3.4 SBC and everything so far is great! Btw I couldn't find it in the changelog but does this fix 4g cuz on stock kernal both the 3g icon and 4g icon show
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It's called a kernel.
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chvezsd said:
Thanks, I just flashed the tiamat 3.3.4 SBC and everything so far is great! Btw I couldn't find it in the changelog but does this fix 4g cuz on stock kernal both the 3g icon and 4g icon show
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Click to expand...
Click to collapse
That happens to me sometimes but not all the time. I believe that's still a problem with cm7 in general though. For best results I recommended going to settings/ cyanogenmod settings/ performance/CPU settings then use the "smart ass" governor. It has provided me with the best overall battery/performance. I also have my min freq at 245 and max freq at 1152.
Those are also my settings, I've discovered my evo can't go beyond 1.15ghz without locking up. I've been trying to get to 1.2 but no go
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chvezsd said:
Those are also my settings, I've discovered my evo can't go beyond 1.15ghz without locking up. I've been trying to get to 1.2 but no go
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Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Ahh neither can mine its reboot nation once I pass up 1190mhz.
Yeah wish i was a lucky one :/, so after installing kernels I'm getting 41.2 mflops and my quadrant benchmark is 1221
What are you getting?
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chvezsd said:
Yeah wish i was a lucky one :/, so after installing kernels I'm getting 41.2 mflops and my quadrant benchmark is 1221
What are you getting?
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Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I don't really put so much stock in scores anymore they don't mean anything to be honest. Dirk used to be a score whore but I just removed the apps so I wouldn't worry about it anymore. I came to terms that my scores won't go much higher then what they already were. Just ran 40 mflops and 1220 bench.
Yeah I just like the braging rights, hopefully they can figure how to overclock the gpu soon tho
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chvezsd said:
Yeah I just like the braging rights, hopefully they can figure how to overclock the gpu soon tho
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Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Bragging rights how's this for bragging rights; my 12 year old cousin has a tmobile g2(newer processor) which is stock clocked at only 800mhz. His phone scores a 60 on linpack and over 1500 on benchmark and its not even rooted lol. This is why I don't care about scores anymore
I just died a little inside :/ lol I wanna upgrade to the evo 3d soon tho and that's a dual core
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dirkyd3rk said:
In a nutshell, sbc is a method of charging that allows you to "fully"(trickle) charge your battery. Normal kernels really only let you charge to about 90% for safety measures; while sbc lets you fully charge letting your battery completely fill. There's a few threads that talk about it if you search around to get more "details". I've been using them for months without any problems whatsoever. Good luck
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I just wanna correct this misconception because it led me astray and it took a good amount of research to realize this was wrong.
All kernels will charge the phone to 100%. That's not an issue. What happens is, once they are charged to 100%, they start draining battery again, and coupled with the fact that li-ions inherently lose charge over time, and the fact that most people haven't conditioned their battery's memory by properly charging it, by the time you pull your phone off the charger it's already lost that 10% (give or take).
Trickle charging hopes to fix this by "trickling" a small charge into the battery constantly once it hits 100%, to compensate for discharge, so that it stays at 100%. The problem with this is, it pushes a current through the battery constantly, and that tends to shorten the life of lithium-ion batteries over time. You may get better immediate battery life off the charger, but you'll kill your battery quicker. Come months from now, your battery life isn't going to be what it should, whether you notice it or not.
If you want to minimize the discharge, you can take a couple safer steps:
- Condition your battery. Charge it to a true 100%. This will mean turning the phone off and on a few times while it's on the charger to make sure it's actually at 100%. Then completely discharge it until the phone cannot turn back on. Do this a couple times in a row, and repeat every month or so. This conditions your li-ion battery's internal charging memory so it knows its true charge potential.
- Charge your phone while it's off. It won't drain nearly as much battery this way, so when you're ready to take it off the charger it'll be much fresher.
- Avoid prolonged charging and continuous charging, because it can confuse the li-ion's internal charging memory. Rather than re-charging it when it hits 60%, let it drain as low as possible before you bother recharging it. Bursts of short charges don't harm the battery, but they make it "forget" how much it can be charged.
In short, SBC kernels are bad for your battery.
---
Also, Savaged-Zen 1.0.1 BFS no-SBC has been the best kernel I've found for the Evo 4G. Granted I haven't had this thing that long and there may be another gem lying around somewhere, but given the popularity of SZ, I doubt it. It's a very good, smooth kernel. It's giving me the best performance of what I've tried (most of the popular ones).
As for CFS vs BFS, flip a coin. Some will swear CFS is smoother, others will swear BFS is supposed to be smoother. BFS gives me more responsiveness personally, but I think it mostly depends on your workload. I keep scarcely-used tasks killed and I don't use widgets, so the lack of many processes may be what makes BFS better for me. Try both and see which feels smoother in daily use.
router54g said:
I just wanna correct this misconception because it led me astray and it took a good amount of research to realize this was wrong.
All kernels will charge the phone to 100%. That's not an issue. What happens is, once they are charged to 100%, they start draining battery again, and coupled with the fact that li-ions inherently lose charge over time, and the fact that most people haven't conditioned their battery's memory by properly charging it, by the time you pull your phone off the charger it's already lost that 10% (give or take).
Trickle charging hopes to fix this by "trickling" a small charge into the battery constantly once it hits 100%, to compensate for discharge, so that it stays at 100%. The problem with this is, it pushes a current through the battery constantly, and that tends to shorten the life of lithium-ion batteries over time. You may get better immediate battery life off the charger, but you'll kill your battery quicker. Come months from now, your battery life isn't going to be what it should, whether you notice it or not.
If you want to minimize the discharge, you can take a couple safer steps:
- Condition your battery. Charge it to a true 100%. This will mean turning the phone off and on a few times while it's on the charger to make sure it's actually at 100%. Then completely discharge it until the phone cannot turn back on. Do this a couple times in a row, and repeat every month or so. This conditions your li-ion battery's internal charging memory so it knows its true charge potential.
- Charge your phone while it's off. It won't drain nearly as much battery this way, so when you're ready to take it off the charger it'll be much fresher.
- Avoid prolonged charging and continuous charging, because it can confuse the li-ion's internal charging memory. Rather than re-charging it when it hits 60%, let it drain as low as possible before you bother recharging it. Bursts of short charges don't harm the battery, but they make it "forget" how much it can be charged.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
What he said
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=894880
Thanks for all the info! I'm just gonna try SBC for a month then try non SBC for a month and see witch I would prefer better. Also for the Zen kernels do they break anything that's not already working? And would they give better 3d performance then the tiamats kernel?
Sent from my PC36100 using XDA App
chvezsd said:
Thanks for all the info! I'm just gonna try SBC for a month then try non SBC for a month and see witch I would prefer better. Also for the Zen kernels do they break anything that's not already working? And would they give better 3d performance then the tiamats kernel?
Sent from my PC36100 using XDA App
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
That's a great plan man. I visited the savage zen kernel thread earlier and some are complaing about their newest build causing charging issues or something along with 100% wake time idk. If you give it a shot use their 1.0.0 instead of the 1.0.1. Just give the kernels about a week and see how well they hold up. Its mainly about personal preference(sbc or non sbc) I'm actually testing the tiamat sbc but I was previously on savage zen. I like to give all kernels a chance(1 or 2 weeks) to see how well my phone performs with them.
Ok well ill just wait till Friday to install a new one then and see how the Zen works out
Sent from my PC36100 using XDA App

[Q] Poor battery life -- halp!

I recently got into rooting and flashing at the end of last year. This site has been a great resource for how to's and learning about the ins and outs of phone hacking.
Anyways, here's the background info: rooted using Unrevoked Forever, s-off, stayed with stock ROM and kernel only using SetCPU profiles. When I was on stock software, I had unbelievable battery life. I'm a light user (~10% awake time) and rarely beat on the battery -- light calling, email, texting, Facebook, random messing around etc. Anyways, when 3.70.651.1 came out, I knew that was my chance to flash my first ROM.
I flashed SprintLovers and got decent battery life, but nothing compared to when I was running the stock ROM. I then tried almost every variation of Netarchy's non-SBC's CFS 4.3.4 kernels -- more HAVS, less and no HAVS. No dice. I've tried with and without setCPU altogether, along with and without setCPU profiles but using the smartass and conservative governor. I always set the processor to 245-998 and never overclock.
I liked myn's Warm TwoPointTwo, so I recently tried that last week. Again, I'm getting okay battery life (~1.5 days) but with the usage I'm at I'm pretty sure I should be able to get 2 days easy. So I tried flashing Netarchy's 4.3.4 non-SBC CFS kernels with the same results. I've also tried with and without setCPU, along with and without setCPU profiles. Finally, I gave up and I'm currently using Netarchy's 4.2.1 cfs havs more smartass and using setCPU.
It's definitely not related to PRI 1.90 as I'm not getting the 100% partial wake time in Spare Parts, and I know the consensus is divided as to whether or not setCPU interferes with HAVS. I know all phones are different and ROMs and kernels interact differently on an individual basis, but I would really like to stick with myn's ROM and a good kernel to max my battery life. rather than go back to the stock ROM. Any suggestions on extending my battery life before I shamefully reflash back to stock software? I always do a full data/cache/dalvik before flashing a ROM, and wipe cache/dalvik before kernels.
myn's warm TwoPointTwo RLS5
netarchy-toastmod-4.2.1-cfs-bfq-havs-more-smartass
PRI and NV 1.90
setCPU 245-998 conservative
setCPU profiles:
temp >50*C = 245-499 powersave priority 100
screen off = 245-384 conservative priority 98
charging AC = 245-998 smartass priority 96
charging USB = 245-998 smartass priority 94
Try recalibrating the battery. Charge to 100% and leave it on the charger a little longer. Then turn the phone off and boot into recovery. In recovery wipe battery stats - in Amon Ra it's under the wipe menu. Boot back up & use the phone normally until the battery drains completely, without charging the phone at all. Some people say until the phone turns off on its own, but I'd try to avoid that. Just get it as low as you can. Then once it's dead, charge it fully without breaking the charge until it's completely full. You should see an increase in life after that. There's also an app in the market that clears your battery stats. I believe it's called "Battery Calibration", but I could be wrong about the name.
Since you don't use your phone much you'd be a good candidate for undervolting. If you don't want to undervolt while the phone is in use, just use a screen off profile only. Turning radios off while you don't have a signal or you aren't using them will make a huge difference as well. Let us know how it goes
plainjane said:
Try recalibrating the battery. Charge to 100% and leave it on the charger a little longer. Then turn the phone off and boot into recovery. In recovery wipe battery stats - in Amon Ra it's under the wipe menu. Boot back up & use the phone normally until the battery drains completely, without charging the phone at all. Some people say until the phone turns off on its own, but I'd try to avoid that. Just get it as low as you can. Then once it's dead, charge it fully without breaking the charge until it's completely full. You should see an increase in life after that. There's also an app in the market that clears your battery stats. I believe it's called "Battery Calibration", but I could be wrong about the name.
Since you don't use your phone much you'd be a good candidate for undervolting. If you don't want to undervolt while the phone is in use, just use a screen off profile only. Turning radios off while you don't have a signal or you aren't using them will make a huge difference as well. Let us know how it goes
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I've heard people recommending a battery calibration after flashing a new ROM. My battery has seemed to be jumping down a few %ages and then stabilizing for long periods of time at a single level. Perhaps this is what I'm missing. I'll give it a try tonight when I recharge and see if that helps. I may try undervolting, but seeing as I got great usage on the stock ROM with the same CPU range I'd like to stick with 248-998. I always have a screen off profile though (as noted in my first post). I've also heard about people shutting off radios and such but I don't think I'd want to take it to that extreme -- maybe if I get desperate enough to eek out that much juice I'll give it a shot.
Bonus: to alleviate my problems at home since I have terrible reception and I know that eats the battery, Sprint is shipping me an Airave free of charge! In the process of trying to contact Sprint's CS (*2 on the dialer), the phone was force closing *1 and *3 work fine, as does normally dialing so I guess the problem is only limited to *2 (I even rebooted and am too lazy to reflash just because I can't speed dial a number I rarely call). Hopefully with your suggestion, I can get back to insane battery life
Don't know if this will help you out at all, but here's my setup...
myn's Warm TwoPointTwo (RLS5)
Net's toastmod-4.3.4-cfs-havs-more-sbc
Launcher Pro Plus
SetCPU:
Screen Off: 128 max, 128 min conservative
Battery<101%: 499 max, 128 min conservative
MinFreeManager:
Set to Aggressive
Twitter, Flikr, and assorted useless (to me anyway) apps frozen with Titanium Backup
Unplugged at 0700 and as of 2205, my Seidio extended 3500 battery is STILL at 74%
Average usage day, with tons of emails, and SMS/MMS messages. About 2 hours of web surfing and 3 hours of Pandora, but not a lot of phone calls today though. About 7 hours spent on WiFi, the rest on 3G (No reliable/stable 4G near me yet).
Background data off
Auto-sync off
Enable always-on mobile data off
I have noticed this is the best battery kernel I have tried out of all of Netarchy's (ymmv). I've had this kernel for 2 weeks, and getting 2 days out of it with HEAVY usage is no problem. I only lost 4% of the battery from 2300 last night to 0700 this morning with the phone sitting on my nightstand.
It seemed to not last as long at first until I wiped battery data and started from scratch. Always a good idea to wipe battery data when swapping ROM's and kernels I notice. Also read (here, of course) that new kernels have a "break in" time of a few charging cycles until they settle in.
Overall:
Completely satisfied with this setup. ROM is lightning fast, and battery is a non-issue with this kernel. Only ever so slightly laggy when opening Handcent or galleries (when I add pics and albums have to rebuild the thumbnails), but what the hell, it's only running 499mHz! Even fired up Avatar from my SD to check for stuttering, clipping, or audio lag. There were none!
Jack
OH!!!
Almost forgot!
I stumbled across this "trick" a while ago. Not sure if it ACTUALLY works, but at least to me it does.
It's called "Super Charging" your battery.
Charge with phone on until green light signifying charging is complete comes on
Disconnect charger
Shut off phone
Reconnect charger
Amber charging light will come
When amber changes to green, disconnect charger
When Green shuts off, reconnect charger.
Repeat process
I was bored this weekend, and did it for 4 hours continuously. Yeah, that is truly bored!
I had charged it so much that upon disconnecting the charger, waiting for the green light to go off, then reconnecting the charger, there was NO amber light. Straight to green. Tried it a few more times, with the same result.
Did it actually "supercharge" the battery? Who knows?
Did it take 3 1/2 days of use to break the 25% remaining mark? Yes it did!
So if you are bored, I mean CRAZY bored, what the hell! Give it a shot...
zx7rou812 said:
OH!!!
Almost forgot!
I stumbled across this "trick" a while ago. Not sure if it ACTUALLY works, but at least to me it does.
It's called "Super Charging" your battery.
Charge with phone on until green light signifying charging is complete comes on
Disconnect charger
Shut off phone
Reconnect charger
Amber charging light will come
When amber changes to green, disconnect charger
When Green shuts off, reconnect charger.
Repeat process
I was bored this weekend, and did it for 4 hours continuously. Yeah, that is truly bored!
I had charged it so much that upon disconnecting the charger, waiting for the green light to go off, then reconnecting the charger, there was NO amber light. Straight to green. Tried it a few more times, with the same result.
Did it actually "supercharge" the battery? Who knows?
Did it take 3 1/2 days of use to break the 25% remaining mark? Yes it did!
So if you are bored, I mean CRAZY bored, what the hell! Give it a shot...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I always wondered if you did that enough, would it eventually get to the point that the light went right to green
zx7rou812 said:
Don't know if this will help you out at all, but here's my setup...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Thanks, but not willing to step into the realm of SBC kernels. However, I will try to go through a few charging cycles to see if my current NA kernel just needs to get broken in. I've also tried the charging method you stated above and while I did get good results, I'm unsure as to whether or not this is overcharging the phone so I decided not to do it again.
Anyways, I wiped batt stats last night after getting the full charge, so still on the drain and need to recharge to 100%; will report back after I go through a few cycles of charging.
Why not an SBC?? Because it fully charges your battery closer to 100% than a non-SBC?/
And don't buy into the hype of exploding batteries. That was handful of cases, that a) were all reported in the earliest days of SBC development, none since and were never fully attributed to the SBC kernel.
Also, you people that say drain til it dies, you DO realize that HTC STRONGLY recommends NOT doing that. According to HTC, you shouldn't recharge until you get below 50%, and no, I'm not gonna go look for the links, use the search feature.
I have a good method in my signature. Give it a try.
HipKat said:
Why not an SBC?? Because it fully charges your battery closer to 100% than a non-SBC?/
And don't buy into the hype of exploding batteries. That was handful of cases, that a) were all reported in the earliest days of SBC development, none since and were never fully attributed to the SBC kernel.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
QFT
Can't argue with a battery that stays at 100% for 3+ hours then slowly drains versus unplugging it at 100%, blinking twice, and seeing 90% remaining...
HipKat said:
Why not an SBC?? Because it fully charges your battery closer to 100% than a non-SBC?/
And don't buy into the hype of exploding batteries. That was handful of cases, that a) were all reported in the earliest days of SBC development, none since and were never fully attributed to the SBC kernel.
Also, you people that say drain til it dies, you DO realize that HTC STRONGLY recommends NOT doing that. According to HTC, you shouldn't recharge until you get below 50%, and no, I'm not gonna go look for the links, use the search feature.
I have a good method in my signature. Give it a try.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Well, I'm no developer but if Netarchy says to beware in his latest kernel thread, even if for liability reasons, then that's good enough for me to stick with non-SBC until an SBC kernel is proven to be 100% safe. I think that's a perfectly valid justification to not use SBC for now.
I keep forgetting that we're not supposed to completely drain the battery. I guess I'll recharge when I hit 5 or 10%.
I'll take a look at your thread when I get a chance.
twinsin said:
Well, I'm no developer but if Netarchy says to beware in his latest kernel thread, even if for liability reasons, then that's good enough for me to stick with non-SBC until an SBC kernel is proven to be 100% safe. I think that's a perfectly valid justification to not use SBC for now.
I keep forgetting that we're not supposed to completely drain the battery. I guess I'll recharge when I hit 5 or 10%.
I'll take a look at your thread when I get a chance.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
All threads (for the most part) say that, even ROM threads about not being liable if anything happens to your phone. Not even flashing a ROM is 100% safe but you do it anyway.
I've been using SBC since it was being tested the first time and I've never had one issue. No batteries have exploded, no chargers bursting into flames, and no phones have self-destructed.
If you want really good battery life, good performance, and want to try something other than Sense, CM7 and MIUI are really good ROMs. I would recommend Tiamat kernel (use 3.3.8 for now, 4.0.0 has some issues) and make sure to wipe batt stats and do a battery calibration. For good measure, you can try my BSM mod in my sig for even better battery life.
kings kernels are awesome!! im using one and is giving me 30 hrs!
valdovic said:
kings kernels are awesome!! im using one and is giving me 30 hrs!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
He doesn't support the EVO anymore, to my knowledge.
-viperboy- said:
All threads (for the most part) say that, even ROM threads about not being liable if anything happens to your phone. Not even flashing a ROM is 100% safe but you do it anyway.
I've been using SBC since it was being tested the first time and I've never had one issue. No batteries have exploded, no chargers bursting into flames, and no phones have self-destructed.
If you want really good battery life, good performance, and want to try something other than Sense, CM7 and MIUI are really good ROMs. I would recommend Tiamat kernel (use 3.3.8 for now, 4.0.0 has some issues) and make sure to wipe batt stats and do a battery calibration. For good measure, you can try my BSM mod in my sig for even better battery life.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yes, all threads use the release of liability clause, but NA specifically states in his most recent thread that SBC could potentially cause problems.
Gosh, so much peer pressure! I'm not saying I won't ever go to SBC, just when I feel like it's a bit more stable and all the kinks are worked out. Kind of like you probably shouldn't buy the first model year of a car since the chances of running into glitches is much higher than if you waited a bit for the bumps to get smoothed out. If I'm being paranoid -- well, it's all in the interest of my $200+ phone. Regardless, I appreciate all the replies.
I've heard about MIUI here and there. I guess I've stuck with Sense since that's all I've ever known, but maybe I'll start branching out to AOSP and MIUI. Does CM7 have full functionality now on the EVO?
I'm on my first recharge since wiping stats and it's the fastest recharge I've ever seen. Maybe I do need to just break the kernel in?

[Q] How do you Undervolt?

So i have Daemon Controller 3.2 something and I've seen a lot of places mention undervolting. I looked around but couldn't find much information on it.. nothing extensive anyway. So my question is: what are the good things about undervolting (besides battery life) and what are the bad things?
If i undervolt and improve battery life does it decrease performance? Any info here would be awesome. Thanks!
Info here
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=1611620
PatimusXPrime said:
So i have Daemon Controller 3.2 something and I've seen a lot of places mention undervolting. I looked around but couldn't find much information on it.. nothing extensive anyway. So my question is: what are the good things about undervolting (besides battery life) and what are the bad things?
If i undervolt and improve battery life does it decrease performance? Any info here would be awesome. Thanks!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
The only thing I can think of that you might find as a benefit from U/V is improved battery life.
If you UnderVolt too far you risk freezing and/or damaging your device.
If you successfully undervolt without going too far and causing problems, you should see no negative effect on performance. Just better battery life.
I typically U/V around 50 for all clock ranges. I have never had any negative results doing this. But I haven't been able to prove I get better battery life either. I just take faith in the fact that I theoretically am. I do get wicked good battery life, but that is probably due to many things including kernel, rom, radio, clock speed settings, U/V settings, and other mods. All these together produce noticeable results, where any one by itself would not give any substantial or noticeable improvement.
TheAtheistReverend said:
The only thing I can think of that you might find as a benefit from U/V is improved battery life.
If you UnderVolt too far you risk freezing and/or damaging your device.
If you successfully undervolt without going too far and causing problems, you should see no negative effect on performance. Just better battery life.
I typically U/V around 50 for all clock ranges. I have never had any negative results doing this. But I haven't been able to prove I get better battery life either. I just take faith in the fact that I theoretically am. I do get wicked good battery life, but that is probably due to many things including kernel, rom, radio, clock speed settings, U/V settings, and other mods. All these together produce noticeable results, where any one by itself would not give any substantial or noticeable improvement.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Okay cool, I get pretty good battery life too so maybe I'll just skip UV.. no awesome reward just a lot of risk
There is a balance for reward vs risk there. Undervolting by 50 isn't going to put your phone in danger. But if it gets me a couple percent/an hour of battery life, why not?
I'm a believer in doing all the little things that add up to something substantial. Undervolt, Battery MOD, wifi policies, screen on time, charging habits, Kernel, ridding of problem apps, using things like Juice Defender, etc. These all add up to give me better battery life than you can find on almost any non-Max phone. But it takes all of them together, and a constant eye oout for something else I could be doing.
Undervolting may help you.
I havent been a big fan...on my og Incredible it caused nothing but problems with signal...so I dont anymore although the Sense kernel by Dres is undervolted a tad.
Give it a shot and start with -25 increments. Will it affect battery life? Maybe, but engineering tends to dictate that lower voltages dont always affect discharge rates. Higher voltages certainly affect consumption though (and can also lead to major problems).
TheAtheistReverend said:
The only thing I can think of that you might find as a benefit from U/V is improved battery life.
If you UnderVolt too far you risk freezing and/or damaging your device.
If you successfully undervolt without going too far and causing problems, you should see no negative effect on performance. Just better battery life.
I typically U/V around 50 for all clock ranges. I have never had any negative results doing this. But I haven't been able to prove I get better battery life either. I just take faith in the fact that I theoretically am. I do get wicked good battery life, but that is probably due to many things including kernel, rom, radio, clock speed settings, U/V settings, and other mods. All these together produce noticeable results, where any one by itself would not give any substantial or noticeable improvement.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I use the app SetCPU for CPU profiles. If I use something like Incredicontrol to undervolt, will it mess up my phone?
zaza224 said:
I use the app SetCPU for CPU profiles. If I use something like Incredicontrol to undervolt, will it mess up my phone?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
The only way to mess up your phone is to U/V too far and have the "Save for Boot" box checked and no NAND backup.
Make your NAND and run the U/V settings you choose for a day or two before you check the save for boot box. If it freezes up back off your settings a notch and run it for a couple more days.
I run about 50 under without any problems.

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