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[Q] S-off Question and general help

Hello XDA community!
So totally my first post, regular beginner allowances please :/
I bought an HTC Desire a few weeks ago and rooted it last week. My original goal was to remove some bloatware as this is something i always do on my PCs and was understanding that it was something i could do on my phone as well.
I used the unrEVOked3 rooting method which worked out quite well, I did manage to get 1 red warning screen but that was done performing actions no where described in the rooting process....
I then installed and paid for titanium back up as this seemed like the standard back up app from what I read and also understood it would let me remove the bloatware.
However once i removed the apps with titanium I noticed they returned after a reboot. I did some research online and then tried to remove them with Root explorer, however the same thing happened.
Upon doing some more investigation I have come to believe this is do to my phones Secuflag setting of S-off and how it prevents altering the /system folder where these apps are located.
I starting looking into S-off and ended up back at unrEVOked's site investigating unrEVOked forever. I read as much as I could on this and figured i would give it a shot, however it failed which I now believe to be because my radio version was too new.
I am now looking at the Alpha Rev method for getting S-off. I have come across some information on XDA that says altering the Secuflag is one of the few things that can actually brick your phone, along with altering your radio version.
So I am nearing the decision to perform the alpha rev S-off but I figured I would risked looking like a scrub on the forum and asking n00b questions at the benefit of getting the OK on my actions from someone who is more confident in their knowledge then myself.
So here come my questions:
Will Alpha-Rev work with my radio version of 5.11.05.27.
Will the live CD method work if I virtually mount the ISO or do i need to actually burn the disc.
Is there another method I could use to remove the bloatware without risking bricking my phone.
I read alot about lag fixes for other phones, is there a known one for the stock Desire rom ?
Some additional information on my phone
Bravo PVT3 SHIP S-ON
HBOOT 0.93.0001
MICROP 051d
Radio 5.11.05.27
clockworkmod 2.5.0.7
Thanks in advance for any and all help. I really love this site and can't read enough.

Search on removing system apps with adb while in recovery. Then there is no need to S-off.
If you still want to S-off read the AlphaRev site careful and you should be good. There is also a tutorial thread how to S-off which also mentions the virtual machine way. (used it my self)
Sent from my HTC Desire using XDA App

Thanks for the help ! I have seen some ADB tuts for removing apps but i didn't to closely because i figured i would hit the same wall.
I will probably S-off at some point in the future but one step at a time I suppose.

Don't know what you mean, if you are rooted you can remove system apps while in recovery.
Sent from my HTC Desire using XDA App

Hey,
I just successfully removed the Stock widget via adb as a test. thanks for the help. I will now go through the process of removing all the stuff i want off of there.
I am rooted, I am not sure where you were confused on my last comment. but I am on the right track now for removing bloatware thanks again !

I was confused about the wall you hit, but if you successfully removed something it's fine. Just make sure you do a nandroid before removing more stuff and keep in mined you can't remove everything without consequences.
The apps listed here should be safe to remove.

Thank you for the additional list of apks which I can remove. I was using one from cyanogen also as a guide.
There is one app which I seemingly cannot find in /system. Its listed in my app drawer as Asphalt 5 [ its a stupid racing game ] In titanium backup once deleted it shows. com.gameloft.something something [ not looking at TB right now ] however i cannot find either names in /system and the game still shows up in my app drawer, IT REALLY BUGS ME. I actually work in the video game industry and having such a **** game from a **** company on my phone is like chewing chalk for me.
any ideas ?

I don't think that the game is in the system partition, I bet it's in data/app. But if you want to remove data apps just go to market or settings-applications-manage applications and uninstall it from there.

Yea, I had tried removing it via the settings > application route and uninstall was grey'd out. That was my first like "umm i own this phone why can't I do this moment" which lead to everything since then.
Its not in the "My apps" list in the market place either. Its really weird did shows no file size in the manage applications menu. like everything is 0.0 kb. I am going to try to do a full install of it tonight when i get back on wifi ( is a big d/l ) then see if it shows up somewhere....

[Q] Help for noob - riskfree root / S-OFF / flashing

Although I rooted my own Desire back in May of last year, I have since moved on to a different phone and hence stopped following development etc for the Desire.
I have a work colleague who would like the benefits of a rooted, custom ROM but he has no experience in phone-modifying. He basically wants better battery life (so SetCPU would do the job for that) and more space for apps (Apps2SD the original, not Google's implementation). On top of that I'm sure he would probably enjoy the enhancements of the new Sense ROMs as well.
When I rooted my own Desire it was back in the days of fake-flash and I don't think my Desire was ever S-OFFed - I only had a moderate understanding of what I was doing, and there were a few brown trouser moments as I recall!
What I'm looking for is a complete guide start to finish of the easiest, least risky way to currently root a Desire and install custom recovery (presumably ClockworkMod & Rom Manager are standard for the Desire still?).
I've looked around the forums and found guides which explain some of it, however these threads run into 30, 40, 50+ pages which I think is a bit much reading if you don't really understand what you're reading about. Luckily I have an interest in it, but to my colleague it's just a means to an end, to get his phone working in a decent manner! Unsurprisingly, he is not interested in learning how a combustion engine works in order to drive his car either.
So, can someone write me a FOOLPROOF guide from start to finish:
1. Rooting and S-OFF (with a basic explanation of what this is),
2. Installing a custom recovery (again with an explanation of what this is, and how to use it, Nandroid backups etc)
3. Installing ROMs
I know I'm asking a bit much - I'm just trying to make it as easy as possible for my colleague without actually doing it myself, as I'm not really a good enough friend that if I did take his phone away for a couple of days, that he wouldn't mind if it came back bricked! It needs to be his decision to do it, and him doing it.
I am willing to donate if someone can put all this together for him.

This should have most of the things needed.
Don't worry about S-off since it is not needed and one of the only procedures that can really brick a phone.
Edit: Before starting with rooting, boot in to hboot and check the pvt version. If it's pvt4, the best thing to do is to use Amon_RA as a alternative recovery image. To do this just follow the guide but befoer clicking on root in Unrevoked go to "file" and select the alternative recovery.

You can use the unrevoked way which is too easy to do and if you want to S-Off, although not needed, you can visit AlphaRev

I would say for definite, forget about s-off. Not exactly sure what it is myself, but as it's completely unnecessary for the whole rooting/flashing procedure, why bother?
I rooted from a linux boot cd which sounds complicated but I think is actually easier as there's no faffing about with installing sync and then uninstalling it again.

S-Off disables NAND security on GSM phones. When you use unrevoked, it only disables it for CDMA. Also disabling the phones NAND security enables you to do further things like change the splash screen, install another Hboot, delete system apps and so on. If you think rooting gives you more freedom, S-Off gives you even more. It's there for those that need it though. It's not difficult if you do your research. But to be honest, it's an automated process with it working 99.9% of the time.

I did s off without hitch 100% safe.
Also new hboot new recovery with android flasher.
GoogleJelly said:
S-Off disables NAND security on GSM phones. When you use unrevoked, it only disables it for CDMA. Also disabling the phones NAND security enables you to do further things like change the splash screen, install another Hboot, delete system apps and so on. If you think rooting gives you more freedom, S-Off gives you even more. It's there for those that need it though. It's not difficult if you do your research. But to be honest, it's an automated process with it working 99.9% of the time.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Sent from my HTC Desire using XDA App

S-OFF does nothing though bar mean you can delete apps without having to be in recovery. for someone who has no idea about modding it's just not worth doing. Rooting and using a custom Senes-based ROM will do the job just fine

It does way more than mean you can just delete apps. The methods for installing stuff these days are more or less 100% bug free and won't bugger up your device. Why not give it a go? Just make sure you read info and research it a little first before you start. Just don't do what I did and almost brick it

But if the OP doesn't know how to root then they're not going to need to S-OFF are they? Seems pointless

I did S-OFF for two reasons:
1) To install custom HBOOT so that I get more space in /data
2) For the hell of it.....
EDIT: I think some of the ROMs need S-OFF enabled (I'm not sure....) but, at the same time, I don't think S-OFF is absolutely necessary.

S-Off isn't necessary to have. No rom requires you to have it. It is just something that you may as well have if you root because it gives you way more freedom.

Totally disagree, it's not needed at all if you just want the phone to work. Custom ROM with A2SD+ is MORE than enough for a complete n00b

EddyOS said:
Totally disagree, it's not needed at all if you just want the phone to work. Custom ROM with A2SD+ is MORE than enough for a complete n00b
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Agree completely. If you want to explore custom ROM's, get A2SD etc then root. Once you're happy with the whole root/recovery/flashing thing THEN look at s-off if it is necessary to do what you want. For a lot of people it really isn't required at all, and it definitely shouldn't be the first thing you think of doing.

[Q] Rooting question - software version

My DHD is brand new - just a week. It was supplied by Orange in France - who by the way are the most incompetent company I have ever dealt with - and the software number is 1.40.61.2
Now I'm thinking of rooting the phone. Partly because I understand that it will help me improve battery life (True/false??)
That I will be able to run some apps which I wouldn't otherwise be able to do
And also because I love gadgetery and fiddling around with things.
On the other hand I rely hugely on the phone. I don't want to lose it and I'm not hugely techie.
Looking around, I read that if a phone is 1.72 then it must be downgraded to 1.32
So my phone is 1.40. Where does that leave me? I have never seen any mention of this version number anywhere. I have to ask myslef also, why have I been supplied a new phone with an old version of the software.
Anyway, that's just my first question. I expect that there will be others to follow.

have a look to the Desire DHD Forum
good luck

Thanks, in fact I have temprooted with Viionary and it works OK.
I haven't done a perm-root bevause I'm very anxious.
What I don't understand is how I would then be able to return it to its original state.

lejars1 said:
Thanks, in fact I have temprooted with Viionary and it works OK.
I haven't done a perm-root bevause I'm very anxious.
What I don't understand is how I would then be able to return it to its original state.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Visionary+ can unroot your device with just one click

Yes, I saw that - but I'm still worrried. Terrible eh? Is there some way to back up my phone completely and then restore it completely if it all goes to worms?
I'm expect that it would unroot quite satisfactorily - but I found it a bit disconcerting simply to see that it says that Visionary will try to unroot.
I don't know if it is my age - over 60 but I'm really feeling my way on all of this and I look to be very sure before I do things.
Although there are lots of guides on this forum as to what to do, there aren't any guides which tell you why you have to do each step.
I'd like to know what I am achieving at each step of the rooting, flashing, s-off eng-off blah blah. Then I'll feel that I'm in control and that will give me a comfort factor.
My main objective is to improve battery life - and after that, to see if I can have some fun. (Actually, that's my objective in life too!!)

lejars1 said:
Yes, I saw that - but I'm still worrried. Terrible eh? Is there some way to back up my phone completely and then restore it completely if it all goes to worms?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
If you want to completely revert your phone to stock, you can simply do a factory restore (In Settings->SD-Card & phone storage)
A Backup of your contacts, settings etc. can be done with MyBackup (I believe you can't backup everything, but almost everything). The apps can be restored from the Android Market.
lejars1 said:
I'm expect that it would unroot quite satisfactorily - but I found it a bit disconcerting simply to see that it says that Visionary will try to unroot.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
To say the truth, there have been little to none problems with Visionary+ I know of. The "try" is there to indicate that it might, under unknown circumstances, not work. The same can be said about some stock functions though and they don't bother to mention it.
lejars1 said:
I'd like to know what I am achieving at each step of the rooting, flashing, s-off eng-off blah blah. Then I'll feel that I'm in control and that will give me a comfort factor.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Okay let's see:
Rooting:
Root superuser in UNIX-based systems. The equivalent of the "administrator" in Windows. He can do basically everything in the system. The account is disabled in Android though.
When you root your phone, you activate this account and thus gain (almost) complete access to your system.
A TempRoot will not survive a reboot and needs to be applied every time you reboot your phone, while a Permanent Root will not be lost.
S-OFF:
S-OFF stands for Security Off. It means that you (or rather the programs you choose to use) will be able to replace the bootloader, write persistent changes to the system (like removing stock apps).
You will also be able to flash a custom Recovery (most likely ClockworkMod Recovery). Recoveries are independent of the regular operating system and allow you to flash custom ROMs, make (and more importantly restore) backups of your system, etc.
There are two types of S-OFF: Eng S-OFF and Radio S-OFF
Eng S-OFF stands for Engineered S-OFF and modifies the bootloader so it will allow you to access all the functions. It is needed if you want to flash a new radio.
Radio S-OFF on the other hand really sets the Security flag to OFF. It can easily be reversed and is the "cleaner" option.
Flashing:
Flashing is the process of overwriting some part of the system (or the whole system) with a custom replacement. It is done while in Recovery by selecting a zip file from the SD-Card and telling ClockworkMod Recovery to flash it. Really it is quite simple if you follow the developer's instructions.

It is so decent of you to take the time to do this. It is very helpful indeed.
I hope that you know now, that I am going to keep on asking you more questions. Is that OK?
I didn't realise that a factory reset will undo the permanent rotting. That is very reassuring to know. So that's a worry out of the way.
So, you do a permanent root.
When you have the superadmin rights, you can then make fundamental changes to the system.
The next thing is to turn off the security which I suppose is a bit like a firewall and allows certain programs to install at a system level. Right?
You can either do this using Eng or Radio - and what I gather from you is that it is better to use Radio. - Right? but Eng and radio are alternatives. I had gathered that you had to do both. - wrong.
Then if you are going further, you have to flash various radios - but now I'm lost. What is a radio?
(I hope that you don't regret getting into this.)
Also, at what point does it become risky - and what point can you no longer restore merely by doing a factory reset?

One small correction
2 Types of S-Off are S-Off & ENG S-Off.
Radio S-Off is a different beast.

andyharney said:
One small correction
2 Types of S-Off are S-Off & ENG S-Off.
Radio S-Off is a different beast.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Thanks - but arrgh!
A bit more confused now!

lejars1 said:
Thanks - but arrgh!
A bit more confused now!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
HTC phones come nand locked. Its an extra form of security against root, so even a rooted phone cannot write to the protected parts of the nand chip (/system, /recovery /radio /misc ect) thats what s-off is for. It removes the write protection on thoes partitions
Sent from my Desire HD using Tapatalk

understanding the S-ON feature

Hello,
I would like to root a friend's HTC Wildfire and custom Rom it, which in the old days required deactivating S-ON feature but now people say it is no longer needed.
For my personal knowledge, how is this possible. I mean as I understand it, s-on restricts us /system to write permissions only, so how can you install ROMs which need to modify the /system when installing, or how can you obtain root since the "su" binary also needs to be placed into the system partition.
Thanks.

goguvarra said:
Hello,
I would like to root a friend's HTC Wildfire and custom Rom it, which in the old days required deactivating S-ON feature but now people say it is no longer needed.
For my personal knowledge, how is this possible. I mean as I understand it, s-on restricts us /system to write permissions only, so how can you install ROMs which need to modify the /system when installing, or how can you obtain root since the "su" binary also needs to be placed into the system partition.
Thanks.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
What happened was that under the gnu(?) License that android runs on is open source, and as such it is illegal to make copys of it that are locked down, as that breaks the license laws agreed by using the software. So by law htc were required to provide unlocked bootloader. This is true of every android manufacture. Htc were not very pleased when people started pulling them up on it so after much pressure they started to offer "htcdev". This is a bootloader unlock program that allows certain parts of the phone to be Accessed and edited. But this is not full s-off. The bootloader and radio still remain locked down, but the recovery, system, data and cache are "unlocked" so you can flash custom recovery, root, roms, all the stuff most people want to use. The problem starts when people want to start flashing kernels and boot.IMG edits. The boot partition with htcdev unlock does not play nice, so people have had to create ways around the issues. For example the "htc dumlock" and "smart flash for 4ext recovery"
These hacks Allow custom boot.imgs to be flashed with the htcdev unlocked bootloader.
As far as the buzz (wildfire) is concerned people have always just used s-off via revolutionary since it came out, and before that unrevoked. These came before htcdev and as such not many users here will ever use htcdev. For this device s-off is both preferable and attainable thanks to the hard work of others but for devices that don't have such luxurys htcdev will have to do
Tapped out from my sexy nexus 7

The rooting of the M8

Hello all,
I have some questions about rooting my phone, the HTC One M8. If someone gets a new phone like this one, backs it up after initial setup, roots and does s-off, and then does a second backup (optional).......... is there any reason why that person should need to worry about anything going wrong? I'm replacing my phone and want to know that as long as I back it up before rooting and s-off, I should never have to worry, right?
Also, once you root a phone, you can still get new OTAs right? The rooting doesn't stop that, right? Just a simple yes or no is fine.
Kindly please answer both. I appreciate all those who can shed some light! It seems that rooting is ok as long as you do it (and S-OFF) BEFORE receiving any OTAs, or that's what I think.
Thank You,
RockStar2005

RockStar2005 said:
Hello all,
I have some questions about rooting my phone, the HTC One M8. If someone gets a new phone like this one, backs it up after initial setup, roots and does s-off, and then does a second backup (optional).......... is there any reason why that person should need to worry about anything going wrong? I'm replacing my phone and want to know that as long as I back it up before rooting and s-off, I should never have to worry, right?
Also, once you root a phone, you can still get new OTAs right? The rooting doesn't stop that, right? Just a simple yes or no is fine.
Kindly please answer both. I appreciate all those who can shed some light! It seems that rooting is ok as long as you do it (and S-OFF) BEFORE receiving any OTAs, or that's what I think.
Thank You,
RockStar2005
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
part of rooting is a custom recovery which can block ota's from installing. sometimes the updates can manually be flashed or you can just revert to a stock recovery temporarily but changes to your system can also block the install. as far as the backups it's what ever your comfortable with - I never bother with backups of the stock software and I've never needed one.
Sent from my HTC One_M8 using Tapatalk

lampel said:
part of rooting is a custom recovery which can block ota's from installing. sometimes the updates can manually be flashed or you can just revert to a stock recovery temporarily but changes to your system can also block the install. as far as the backups it's what ever your comfortable with - I never bother with backups of the stock software and I've never needed one.
Sent from my HTC One_M8 using Tapatalk
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Ok thank Lampel!
RockStar2005

I have questions pertaining to Rooting the HTC One M8 aswell.
I moved from Samsung's Galaxy line of phones and have always Rooted without hesitation. Reasons being, I have become comfortable with the way they work and am confident I can return it to Stock (no modded counters on it or whatever), if I need to bring it back to my carrier for some reason.
Now I just got my M8, and definitely want to Root it, but all the new terms for HTC phones confuse me a little. Things I need to know before going forward with Rooting are:
1) What is "S-Off"/'S-On"? And what does it mean?
2) If I Root, can I bring it back to Stock where it will look like I did nothing to it so I can return to the store if I need to?
3) I know there are risks when Rooting, but are there things that become "broken" or don't work because of Rooting? Examples would be like Sony's Xperia devices, the Bravia Engine stops working, and so does the Camera (for some models). Those things become "broken" as a security feature for Sony. Did HTC do anything similar?
4) Anything else you might think I need to know before Rooting?
Thanks in advance!

leo9891 said:
1) What is "S-Off"/'S-On"? And what does it mean?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I'm not 100% certain on the other questions but maybe I can help with your first question.
Security-ON / Security-OFF. These settings seem specific to HTC. When you purchase a new phone, it will be S-On. This basically means that there are specific areas of your phone that you won't be able to touch, even with root access. However, you can alter the system, boot, and recovery partitions with root access and S-On. S-Off will allow access to the radio and other partitions that you won't be able to access with S-On. S-Off also allows you to change the splash screen. You can check your S-on/S-off status by booting into fastboot (power off phone, press volume down and power until you see the white fastboot screen).
It is my understanding that in order to get S-Off on newer HTC One M8's, Sunshine (http://theroot.ninja/) can be used but it does cost $25. The htcdev.com site has more information on S-On/S-Off along with warnings of why you may not want to go with S-Off here: http://www.htcdev.com/bootloader/about_unlock_process.

janderia said:
I'm not 100% certain on the other questions but maybe I can help with your first question.
Security-ON / Security-OFF. These settings seem specific to HTC. When you purchase a new phone, it will be S-On. This basically means that there are specific areas of your phone that you won't be able to touch, even with root access. However, you can alter the system, boot, and recovery partitions with root access and S-On. S-Off will allow access to the radio and other partitions that you won't be able to access with S-On. S-Off also allows you to change the splash screen. You can check your S-on/S-off status by booting into fastboot (power off phone, press volume down and power until you see the white fastboot screen).
It is my understanding that in order to get S-Off on newer HTC One M8's, Sunshine (http://theroot.ninja/) can be used but it does cost $25. The htcdev.com site has more information on S-On/S-Off along with warnings of why you may not want to go with S-Off here: http://www.htcdev.com/bootloader/about_unlock_process.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
thanks for your reply, took a day or two after i posted to grab the concept of S-Off/S-On. I'm used to Samsung devices where all you needed was root, and you can do anything.