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Hey Folks,
Its been a while since VoLTE was discussed, and with Verizon announceing their LTE rollout will be complete 6 months early, I think this will be a good thing for us Nexus lovers who are on Verizon LTE. I wrote the following on theVerge and I thought I would post it here for us Galaxy Nexus owners to ponder...
First lets talk about LTE
Verizon won the C Block spectrum in March of 2008, bringing the rise of LTE and crazy data speeds on are mobile devices. Everyone was like Google might get into the mobile business as they were bidding on the Spectrum, when in all reality they were setting the reserve price to ensure Open-Access to that block of Spectrum. Verizon won, we have LTE, and the rest is history.
So What Happened to Open Access?
Open Access is still a provision. Which is probably the reason Verizon never really came after folks who rooted their phones and used wireless tethering apps. They were actually fined for trying to block these apps in the Play Store, so the Open Access provisions are alive and kicking. This makes some people wonder why is this a problem then? Because Verizon still uses CDMA for voice services. They basically have an hybrid LTE CDMA model. So in turn they are still allowed to lock down their phones due to the need of CDMA. Updates for the Galaxy Nexus is more of an issue because VZW requires all this rigorous testing for their CDMA network, not necessarily the LTE network.
So VoLTE?
VoLTE is basically Voice carried over your data connection. For Verizon it means it will not have to provide both a LTE and CDMA chip in their phones. Phones will only need a LTE chip and in theory, you will no longer need a voice plan because everything including voice calls are transferred over data. It also means the Open-Access rules are now in full effect, so Verizon cannot lock down phones on the basis of it still needing a CDMA chip. LTE is currently being trialed by Verizon in select cities with plans for Nationwide roll out in 2013.
What it Means for Google and Nexus
Google's Nexus line will easily be able to do a unlocked LTE version for Verizon due to the Open-Access provisions which went into effect purely based on Google's huge opening bid in 2008. With no CDMA, Verizon will no longer have control because of those provisions enforced by the FCC. I'm sure Google wanted to work with Verizon, but they also new that soon Verizon will have no choice. Once VoLTE goes nation wide, expect an unlocked LTE Nexus using this technology, probably priced about $100 more than the GSM version.
All this matters because VoLTE is the future of mobile phones. I think we will soon start seeing purely data plans being available for users to use with both Voice and Data. Google though has done something smart. They have set the price for a high quality unlocked device, and they have set that price low. I imagine a the next Nexus will support VoLTE on Verizon, it will be unlocked, and will cost $400 compared to an unlocked GSM version for $350, as LTE licensing cost a lot more. This will also allow Google to build the device as they want to with Updates coming directly from Google and Carriers being removed completely from the process
So I see these things happening within the Mobile world in the nest 2 years
VoLTE going live nationwide within a year
Unlimited Data Plans making their way back
Unlocked Better priced Contract Free Mobile devices. No more $650 Off contract phones
More competition, with more and more customers becoming month to month non contract users
I do wish that Google had a LTE Nexus available, but Google is working on something and I think next year we will see the beginning of a change to the mobile industry for the better.
Aren't the other carriers' LTE networks hybrid networks as well? I ask this because we don't know when a network like Sprint will go 100% LTE. So even when Verizon goes all LTE, wouldn't an LTE Nexus still technically be exclusive to Verizon?
Sent from my Galaxy Nexus using xda premium
Good read, thanks for posting. Although I do not see unlimited data coming back, especially if carriers do switch completely over to data phone calls.
I'm not sure if Google will want to have multiple hardware versions again. I really hope this theory ends up a reality, but I don't know. I would definitely like to stay on Verizon if this was the case. The naysayer in me says we won't see a real Nexus on VZW for a long time if ever. But reading this is making me rethink dropping Verizon to get the Nexus 4 and any future Nexi. I would definitely be ok with skipping the Nexus 4 if VZW ended up with a real Nexus that was only LTE (no CDMA), but it seems like a GSM carrier is the only way to go for a Nexus for the foreseeable future.
Won't happen. Even with VoLTE people won't put up with not having signal if 4g isn't available. So Google most likely would never consider this an option. 4g coverage area just isn't good enough yet.
Sent from my SCH-I535 using xda premium
Slacker101 said:
Won't happen. Even with VoLTE people won't put up with not having signal if 4g isn't available. So Google most likely would never consider this an option. 4g coverage area just isn't good enough yet.
Sent from my SCH-I535 using xda premium
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Its pretty dang close.
MrBigFeathers said:
I'm not sure if Google will want to have multiple hardware versions again. I really hope this theory ends up a reality, but I don't know. I would definitely like to stay on Verizon if this was the case. The naysayer in me says we won't see a real Nexus on VZW for a long time if ever. But reading this is making me rethink dropping Verizon to get the Nexus 4 and any future Nexi. I would definitely be ok with skipping the Nexus 4 if VZW ended up with a real Nexus that was only LTE (no CDMA), but it seems like a GSM carrier is the only way to go for a Nexus for the foreseeable future.
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Google is notorious for changing their mind. Lets take a look at past decisions.
Nexus One was offered to Verizon but did not pass Verizon QA. Google went GSM only and subsidized through Tmo.
GSM Nexus S was offered via multiple subsidies, as well as a CDMA/WIMAX version.
Galaxy Nexus was offered to Verizon and Verizon accepted. GSM model, and two CDMA/LTE models. No GSM subsidies. (in the US)
Nexus 4 is GSM only, but still carries a a Tmo subsidy.
Nexus 5??? Obviously we can't tell from history.
AOSP
Nexus One
Nexus S
Nexus S 4G
GSM Galaxy Nexus
Then the proprietaries issue came up. All the fail blogs said that CDMA and LTE proprietaries would never be available for AOSP.
Fast forward to today. We not only have CDMA and LTE proprietaries, but Google provided them for the Sprint Galaxy Nexus, which never had plans to be on AOSP. Then they went a step further and provided a factory image for them!
There is also an experimental Xperia S AOSP project. So, now its possible that the Nexus might not be the only AOSP supported device in the future.
If you see a pattern, let me know. All I see is Google feeling out the market still. I mean, they tried out WIMAX. If that doesn't say Google is open to trying different things, what does?
Slacker101 said:
Won't happen. Even with VoLTE people won't put up with not having signal if 4g isn't available. So Google most likely would never consider this an option. 4g coverage area just isn't good enough yet.
Sent from my SCH-I535 using xda premium
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What you need to understand is Verizon is trying to decommission their entire 3G network by 2020. It is not meant to be a fall over network from LTE, once Verizon completes it LTE roll out next year they will start the 7 year process of moving everyone off of 3G data, which ultimately is just their smartphones. This is why you do not see Verizon selling 3G smartphones anymore. CDMA is old tech similar to ATTs TDMA. If you remember ATT moved from TDMA to GSM back in 2001 and it took about 7 years to really completely move over.
I think it will happen because VoLTE is basically VOIP technology which everyone is moving to, Google already has Google Voice which is basically VOIP service for your phone. Please believe that Google did not spend all that money at opening bid of the Spectrum Auction for them not to even leverage the Open Access provision, which is ultimately what they paid for.
HeCareth said:
What you need to understand is Verizon is trying to decommission their entire 3G network by 2020. It is not meant to be a fall over network from LTE, once Verizon completes it LTE roll out next year they will start the 7 year process of moving everyone off of 3G data, which ultimately is just their smartphones. This is why you do not see Verizon selling 3G smartphones anymore. CDMA is old tech similar to ATTs TDMA. If you remember ATT moved from TDMA to GSM back in 2001 and it took about 7 years to really completely move over.
I think it will happen because VoLTE is basically VOIP technology which everyone is moving to, Google already has Google Voice which is basically VOIP service for your phone. Please believe that Google did not spend all that money at opening bid of the Spectrum Auction for them not to even leverage the Open Access provision, which is ultimately what they paid for.
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I do foresee this:
Verizon will have to be sued before they truly follow the open access provision. I don't see any other way around it. Verizon is too self-righteous.
adrynalyne said:
Google is notorious for changing their mind. Lets take a look at past decisions.
Nexus One was offered to Verizon but did not pass Verizon QA. Google went GSM only and subsidized through Tmo.
GSM Nexus S was offered via multiple subsidies, as well as a CDMA/WIMAX version.
Galaxy Nexus was offered to Verizon and Verizon accepted. GSM model, and two CDMA models. No GSM subsidies. (in the US)
Nexus 4 is GSM only, but still carries a a Tmo subsidy.
Nexus 5??? Obviously we can't tell from history.
If you see a pattern, let me know. All I see is Google feeling out the market still. I mean, they tried out WIMAX. If that doesn't say Google is open to trying different things, what does?
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I agree Google is not like Apple who usually waits on new technology, most of the time they are early adopters of new tech. LTE was first made available on an Android device, which hit the Galaxy Nexus that same year. Mobile VOIP is the future, as all carriers are looking to migrate their voice services to their 4G. MetroPCS was even looking to roll out VoLTE nationwide, which is only in limbo because of the T-Mobile merger. T-Mobile is already on record saying they plan to move Voice services to their 4G HSPA+ network so that is the real issue. Long story short that is the direction technology is moving, which is why carriers are scrambling to get there next generation networks online.
adrynalyne said:
I do foresee this:
Verizon will have to be sued before they truly follow the open access provision. I don't see any other way around it. Verizon is too self-righteous.
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Maybe but the FCC is already hitting them with fines, so I doubt the might have the balls to continue to be difficult.
http://www.theverge.com/2012/7/31/3207193/verizon-fcc-tethering-700mhz-open-access-fine
Slacker101 said:
Won't happen. Even with VoLTE people won't put up with not having signal if 4g isn't available. So Google most likely would never consider this an option. 4g coverage area just isn't good enough yet.
Sent from my SCH-I535 using xda premium
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Still subject to change obviously, but Verizon just announced this week that their LTE network will cover a little over 90% of the US by the end of next year so most people are going to have access to VoLTE by then at the latest. They pissed me off pretty bad with the GNex update, but I have to give them credit for the pace that they are rolling out LTE.
Sent from my Galaxy Nexus using xda premium
This is good stuff! :good:
WiredPirate said:
Good read, thanks for posting. Although I do not see unlimited data coming back, especially if carriers do switch completely over to data phone calls.
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verizon wont ever allow unlocked devices and custom firmware... verizon has said they want to protect their network...
see this: http://androidcommunity.com/verizon-tells-the-fcc-that-locked-bootloaders-are-awesome-20120301/
Verizon justifies its official stance on locked bootloaders by claiming that it’s protecting “customer experience and support”: unlocked bootloaders, they argue, could cause problems for end-users, customer support staff and Verizon’s network in general. Repeating claims made at earlier points, Verizon stated that “unapproved software” could impact the wireless experience for other customers. Despite spectrum purchases from the US government in 2011, Verizon has no legal obligation to make the software on the devices it sells accessible to its customers – it only has to make access to the network available.
rezoundness said:
verizon wont ever allow unlocked devices and custom firmware... verizon has said they want to protect their network...
see this: http://androidcommunity.com/verizon-tells-the-fcc-that-locked-bootloaders-are-awesome-20120301/
Verizon justifies its official stance on locked bootloaders by claiming that it’s protecting “customer experience and support”: unlocked bootloaders, they argue, could cause problems for end-users, customer support staff and Verizon’s network in general. Repeating claims made at earlier points, Verizon stated that “unapproved software” could impact the wireless experience for other customers. Despite spectrum purchases from the US government in 2011, Verizon has no legal obligation to make the software on the devices it sells accessible to its customers – it only has to make access to the network available.
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Invalid argument.
Point in case:
Motorola dev phones that use Verizon.
Samsung dev phones that use Verizon.
Galaxy Nexus.
All examples have unlockable bootloaders. Don't believe what all these blogs preach.
adrynalyne said:
Invalid argument.
Point in case:
Motorola dev phones that use Verizon.
Samsung dev phones that use Verizon.
Galaxy Nexus.
All examples have unlockable bootloaders. Don't believe what all these blogs preach.
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Exactly, Verizon is not requiring OEM's to do anything, they are just encouraging them to lock down boot loaders, but in the end OEMS can do what ever they want. The other side of the issue is that developer edition phones will probably not be subsidized by Verizon as that is their choice.
But...Google sales their unlocked stuff at cost anyway out side of Verizon's grubby paws, so it doesn't really matter and Google will probably careless about what Verizon thinks and wants because they know Verizon's end game.
Pierceye said:
Still subject to change obviously, but Verizon just announced this week that their LTE network will cover a little over 90% of the US by the end of next year so most people are going to have access to VoLTE by then at the latest. They pissed me off pretty bad with the GNex update, but I have to give them credit for the pace that they are rolling out LTE.
Sent from my Galaxy Nexus using xda premium
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Actually Verizon announced that their LTE rollout will be complete by middle of next year covering their entire 3G area. http://news.cnet.com/8301-1035_3-57547595-94/verizon-plans-to-complete-its-lte-rollout-by-mid-2013/
My question is this: when VoLTE rolls out across Verizon's network, will the Galaxy Nexus be able to use this? Because, if this will be possible, one could theoretically just run their phone off LTE by enabling an option in a custom rom. AOKP, the rom I'm currently using, has a setting for LTE only. Doing this, as far as I understand, would save a lot of battery by not having to be connected to the CDMA network for voice calls, and I would assume you could go as far as removing the CDMA radio from the phone. Having unlimited data I could see only good from this, although others with tiered plans might not be so welcome to this idea. Feel free to correct me if I'm wrong.
cmajpwc said:
My question is this: when VoLTE rolls out across Verizon's network, will the Galaxy Nexus be able to use this? Because, if this will be possible, one could theoretically just run their phone off LTE by enabling an option in a custom rom. AOKP, the rom I'm currently using, has a setting for LTE only. Doing this, as far as I understand, would save a lot of battery by not having to be connected to the CDMA network for voice calls, and I would assume you could go as far as removing the CDMA radio from the phone. Having unlimited data I could see only good from this, although others with tiered plans might not be so welcome to this idea. Feel free to correct me if I'm wrong.
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It should support VoLTE. It has the required IMS Framework. Unless using a custom rom and the dev was an idiot and removed it.
Missing one detail. Verizon has long term corporate goals of decommissioning the EvDo portion of the network, however the 1xAdvanced fallback will be here to stay for voice traffic on basic/feature phones and I wouldn't expect any smartphones to come without a CDMA radio for the purposes of common sense. It's been awhile since I've read about it in full degree, but CDMA will continue to live on.
sent from my tired mind
No CDMA device transmits data and cellular at the same time.
063_XOBX said:
No CDMA device transmits data and cellular at the same time.
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I believe it is LTE devices that will not lose data. CDMA only devices WILL lose data when on a phone call. Am I incorrect?
Do I need to have my intentional misinformation detector sent in for service?
WiredPirate said:
I believe it is LTE devices that will not lose data. CDMA only devices WILL lose data when on a phone call. Am I incorrect?
Do I need to have my intentional misinformation detector sent in for service?
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The technology in LTE networks doesn't handle voice transmissions it only does data. So when you place a phone call on LTE it’s actually rolling back to the carrier’s older network to use CDMA tech to make the call.
I'm on Verizon and I can do both at the same time. I just tested it.
Well I believe you answered my question about this particular device but just to be clear both my Evo 4G and my evo 4G LTE would maintain data connection while I was talking on the phone not in an LTE area
sent from my tired mind
firecaulk said:
Well I believe you answered my question about this particular device but just to be clear both my Evo 4G and my evo 4G LTE would maintain data connection while I was talking on the phone not in an LTE area
sent from my tired mind
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No they didn't. You were either on Wifi or they in fact did lose their data. None of the CDMA data+voice protocols are enacted by any US carrier.
firecaulk said:
Well I believe you answered my question about this particular device but just to be clear both my Evo 4G and my evo 4G LTE would maintain data connection while I was talking on the phone not in an LTE area
sent from my tired mind
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So you are on Sprint? It all depends on the carrier too, I believe. If I remember right, AT&T used to be the only one that could do that that I knew of. I switched to Verizon and realized they didn't have that capability. Then LTE came out and gave that feature to them. I dont know about any other carriers though.
Again let me explain there has been many times I have been using my phone as a hotspot device to watch movies on my ps3 and I would receive a phone call in the middle of the movie I would accept the phone call and keep watching the movie without a problem. There is no LTE in my area of Western Kentucky I am on Sprint with an exceptionally fast 3G connection , I was surprised to find that this device does not have the same capabilities
sent from my tired mind
firecaulk said:
Again let me explain there has been many times I have been using my phone as a hotspot device to watch movies on my ps3 and I would receive a phone call in the middle of the movie I would accept the phone call and keep watching the movie without a problem. There is no LTE in my area of Western Kentucky I am on Sprint with an exceptionally fast 3G connection , I was surprised to find that this device does not have the same capabilities
sent from my tired mind
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If you used the Evo 4G it may have been connected to data via 4G, which is not the same as LTE. You can do the same with LTE being connected and voice calls. However it can't be done with 3g and voice as they use the same radio and like the above post says no US carriers have that technology. The only reason 4G and LTE works is becase they are data only on seperate radios. Of course it could have been magic.
G-Nexus Sent
firecaulk said:
Again let me explain there has been many times I have been using my phone as a hotspot device to watch movies on my ps3 and I would receive a phone call in the middle of the movie I would accept the phone call and keep watching the movie without a problem. There is no LTE in my area of Western Kentucky I am on Sprint with an exceptionally fast 3G connection , I was surprised to find that this device does not have the same capabilities
sent from my tired mind
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Well I dont know then. All I know is that my Verizon Galaxy Nexus does both internet and calls at the same time with no issues.
I am posting this during an active call, with no 4g connection
Sent from my EVO using xda app-developers app
I'm just wondering why any download I'm attempting to make will stop whenever I receive a phone call with my Galaxy Nexus?
Sent from my EVO using xda app-developers app
firecaulk said:
I'm just wondering why any download I'm attempting to make will stop whenever I receive a phone call with my Galaxy Nexus?
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Its not a difficult concept. Your data connection is being cut off because you're on a phone call. You might manage to post (something that can be done on even the slowest weakest connection) but something as intensive as downloading is always going to be interrupted.
063_XOBX is mostly correct.
the CDMA GN has a CDMA radio and a LTE radio. if you are not on LTE and you get a phone call, your data will shut off.
most HTC phones (esp the EVO) have a radio chip which allows data and voice at the same time as there are 2 CDMA radios in the phone.
Zepius said:
063_XOBX is mostly correct.
the CDMA GN has a CDMA radio and a LTE radio. if you are not on LTE and you get a phone call, your data will shut off.
most HTC phones (esp the EVO) have a radio chip which allows data and voice at the same time as there are 2 CDMA radios in the phone.
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Thank you for your reply, I really love XDA community I knew I could count on somebody for the answer
sent from my tired mind
063_XOBX said:
No they didn't. You were either on Wifi or they in fact did lose their data. None of the CDMA data+voice protocols are enacted by any US carrier.
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SVDO, while not officially supported, is alive and well. The Thunderbolt, Rezound, Incredible 4G, Viper, and Galaxy S3 on VZW are a handful of phones that are capable of simultaneous voice and 3G data.
Sent from my Nexus 7 using Tapatalk HD
063_XOBX said:
The technology in LTE networks doesn't handle voice transmissions it only does data. So when you place a phone call on LTE it’s actually rolling back to the carrier’s older network to use CDMA tech to make the call.
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No, VoLTE is not yet available, hopefully soon. That is not what I was saying. LTE handles data during a call, and CDMA handles the voice. If you are not on LTE or WiFi, there will be no data while on the call.
063_XOBX said:
You were either on Wifi or they in fact did lose their data. None of the CDMA data+voice protocols are enacted by any US carrier.
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You are correct if only taking about CDMA. Cant say for any other carrier, but 100% with VZW you can do simultaneous data/voice if you are in LTE coverage.
Zepius said:
063_XOBX is mostly correct.
the CDMA GN has a CDMA radio and a LTE radio. if you are not on LTE and you get a phone call, your data will shut off.
most HTC phones (esp the EVO) have a radio chip which allows data and voice at the same time as there are 2 CDMA radios in the phone.
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THIS.
najaboy said:
SVDO,
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thats the term i was looking for. thanks
Zepius said:
063_XOBX is mostly correct.
the CDMA GN has a CDMA radio and a LTE radio. if you are not on LTE and you get a phone call, your data will shut off.
most HTC phones (esp the EVO) have a radio chip which allows data and voice at the same time as there are 2 CDMA radios in the phone.
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Click to collapse
WiredPirate said:
No, VoLTE is not yet available, hopefully soon. That is not what I was saying. LTE handles data during a call, and CDMA handles the voice. If you are not on LTE or WiFi, there will be no data while on the call.
You are correct if only taking about CDMA. Cant say for any other carrier, but 100% with VZW you can do simultaneous data/voice if you are in LTE coverage.
THIS.
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To correct something I saw on this thread (and to complement previous commentaries):
- LTE is considered to be a 4G technology
In March 2008, the International Telecommunications Union-Radio communications sector (ITU-R) specified a set of requirements for 4G standards, named the International Mobile Telecommunications Advanced (IMT-Advanced) specification, setting peak speed requirements for 4G service at 100 megabits per second (Mbit/s) for high mobility communication (such as from trains and cars) and 1 gigabit per second (Gbit/s) for low mobility communication (such as pedestrians and stationary users).[1]
Since the first-release versions of Mobile WiMAX and LTE support much less than 1 Gbit/s peak bit rate, they are not fully IMT-Advanced compliant, but are often branded 4G by service providers. On December 6, 2010, ITU-R recognized that these two technologies, as well as other beyond-3G technologies that do not fulfill the IMT-Advanced requirements, could nevertheless be considered "4G", provided they represent forerunners to IMT-Advanced compliant versions and "a substantial level of improvement in performance and capabilities with respect to the initial third generation systems now deployed".
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- UMTS handles voice with a data call active at the same time.
Sent from my Nexus
I've been wanting into the oneplus ecosystem of insanely good development for awhile, but unfortunately am stuck with Verizon in my area. Any chance this will be the phone that supports Verizon bands?
Unfortuately, the leak shows no band 13: https://forum.xda-developers.com/oneplus-5t/how-to/oneplus-5t-leak-t3703244
You can read more if you like as to what that means as that was the same with OnePlus 5: https://forum.xda-developers.com/oneplus-5/help/verizon-compatibility-t3623695
MRog40 said:
I've been wanting into the oneplus ecosystem of insanely good development for awhile, but unfortunately am stuck with Verizon in my area. Any chance this will be the phone that supports Verizon bands?
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You can really give up on version support. CDMA is a hard area to get into as most of the phone functions are not open source and licensing is always an issue. Will just have to wait for Version to get off of the old standard and use something that isnt 50 years old.
I was looking at this but in same boat with Verizon.. pulled trigger on the PH-1.. cant beat it for the price
Sent from my PH-1 using Tapatalk
zelendel said:
You can really give up on version support. CDMA is a hard area to get into as most of the phone functions are not open source and licensing is always an issue. Will just have to wait for Version to get off of the old standard and use something that isnt 50 years old.
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Licensing of CDMA is a trivial issue, many unlocked phones are now offering it including VERY inexpensive phones from Motorola.
For many of us Verizon is a requirement, not an option. It's the only carrier I can use that doesn't constantly lose LTE service. So in a way, their LTE network is more advanced, more built out. All of my voice and data traffic travels over LTE on Verizon 99%+ of the time.
Glad to have CDMA as a backup plan, even though my phone hasn't fallen back to CDMA in a long time. It does sometimes in the mountains where only 1.228 MHz CDMA slices work well. Verizon will get rid of it when the world is ready, there's nothing technically stopping them today, they would just lose some of their coverage advantage.
Was interested in the OnePlus 5T, but will happily keep using my Pixel 2 so that my phone actually has service where I live and travel. Where Verizon uses "50 year old technology," other carriers often has no service at all.
nadrojjordan said:
Licensing of CDMA is a trivial issue, many unlocked phones are now offering it including VERY inexpensive phones from Motorola.
For many of us Verizon is a requirement, not an option. It's the only carrier I can use that doesn't constantly lose LTE service. So in a way, their LTE network is more advanced, more built out. All of my voice and data traffic travels over LTE on Verizon 99%+ of the time.
Glad to have CDMA as a backup plan, even though my phone hasn't fallen back to CDMA in a long time. It does sometimes in the mountains where only 1.228 MHz CDMA slices work well. Verizon will get rid of it when the world is ready, there's nothing technically stopping them today, they would just lose some of their coverage advantage.
Was interested in the OnePlus 5T, but will happily keep using my Pixel 2 so that my phone actually has service where I live and travel. Where Verizon uses "50 year old technology," other carriers often has no service at all.
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A trivial thing yet soo many dont or cant do it. You also have to remember that CDMA is only used by Verizon and sprint along with a few smaller carriers. The rest of the world uses GSM.
That is already starting with them working with ATT to build new towers.
I could say the same for where I live. Here ATT is your only option. Nothing else works here.
zelendel said:
A trivial thing yet soo many dont or cant do it. You also have to remember that CDMA is only used by Verizon and sprint along with a few smaller carriers. The rest of the world uses GSM.
That is already starting with them working with ATT to build new towers.
I could say the same for where I live. Here ATT is your only option. Nothing else works here.
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Fair enough, every location is different. I just think phone manufacturers choosing to omit CDMA is more a numbers game than complexity. The Snapdragon chips/modems support it, antenna tuning is not an issue since the phones already run on those bands, etc. If Motorola can ship a $99 unlocked unsubsidized non-prepaid phone with CDMA, surely OnePlus could have put it in the 5T. Perhaps it would have been $519, though, and they wanted to hit that $499 price point. Who knows.
Isn't the Tillman deal just adding another lease operator similar to American Towers and Crown Castle? Most towers in our area are owned by those two with multiple operators on them, though we have a ton of Verizon micro cells in town that are seemingly build directly by Verizon. Outside of town there seem to be a lot of towers with JUST Verizon or AT&T on them, and that's where the coverage differences really start. Will the Tillman towers be LTE-only?
nadrojjordan said:
Fair enough, every location is different. I just think phone manufacturers choosing to omit CDMA is more a numbers game than complexity. The Snapdragon chips/modems support it, antenna tuning is not an issue since the phones already run on those bands, etc. If Motorola can ship a $99 unlocked unsubsidized non-prepaid phone with CDMA, surely OnePlus could have put it in the 5T. Perhaps it would have been $519, though, and they wanted to hit that $499 price point. Who knows.
Isn't the Tillman deal just adding another lease operator similar to American Towers and Crown Castle? Most towers in our area are owned by those two with multiple operators on them, though we have a ton of Verizon micro cells in town that are seemingly build directly by Verizon. Outside of town there seem to be a lot of towers with JUST Verizon or AT&T on them, and that's where the coverage differences really start. Will the Tillman towers be LTE-only?
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Click to collapse
Eventually yes. LTE is the next step. This is why Verizon has been using LTE Sim cards for the past few years. They are slowly having to convert as CDMA tech is just too old and limited for the direction of mobile connections.
Motorola has a stake in doing it. China also uses a few old CDMA setups. They also have the money to pay the licensing and what ever price Verizon charges to test the device and work with them for putting the needed software on it. Remember the base phone functions for CDMA tech us not open source. Not even in Android.
zelendel said:
Eventually yes. LTE is the next step. This is why Verizon has been using LTE Sim cards for the past few years. They are slowly having to convert as CDMA tech is just too old and limited for the direction of mobile connections.
Motorola has a stake in doing it. China also uses a few old CDMA setups. They also have the money to pay the licensing and what ever price Verizon charges to test the device and work with them for putting the needed software on it. Remember the base phone functions for CDMA tech us not open source. Not even in Android.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Ahh yeah, I forget about the Verizon testing/certification fees. Was interesting that Essential released the phone before Verizon approved it (of course they paid the Qualcomm royalties, though), and then said later that it was certified to run on Verizon. People already were using them, but not using Verizon's official provisioning page that fixes Visual Voicemail and such upon activation, so there were quirks. Considering this, I suppose it would be quite a pain for OnePlus to go through the Verizon testing/certification for a relatively small amount of customers on the world stage.
zelendel said:
You can really give up on version support. CDMA is a hard area to get into as most of the phone functions are not open source and licensing is always an issue. Will just have to wait for Version to get off of the old standard and use something that isnt 50 years old.
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Click to collapse
Poor effort...if essential can manage to do it while being a way smaller company OP can do it especially when their owner is Oppo.
The fact is they don't want to..for whatever reason..it's not about money, they have it..it's not about time, they have had it. So let's stop with those excuses.
From Pete Lau:
As for our carriers, OnePlus will partner "if we can find the right fit," according to Lau, who suggested that OnePlus fans on Verizon reach out to their carrier to get Verizon "to come to us."
"If we can keep creating good products and getting a lot of positive word of mouth from our users, and have the users push Verizon to come to us, that will make things a lot easier," he said.
Source: http://uk.pcmag.com/oneplus-5t/92062/news/pete-lau-wants-you-to-trust-oneplus
tahlsr said:
Unfortuately, the leak shows no band 13: https://forum.xda-developers.com/oneplus-5t/how-to/oneplus-5t-leak-t3703244
You can read more if you like as to what that means as that was the same with OnePlus 5: https://forum.xda-developers.com/oneplus-5/help/verizon-compatibility-t3623695
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I'm not sure where you live exactly but I was on Verizon for over 10 years and finally dumped them so I could get the oneplus 5. I switched to cricket which uses AT&T's network and I get at least 99% of the coverage I did before.
Unless you are truly in the sticks I bet a GSM network would work fine for you. I live in North Dakota so believe me when I say we are not the first to get new cell technologies by any means.
I sold y oneplus 5 while watching the launch event and am now patiently waiting for tomorrow so I can order the 5T.
With Verizon's LTE network being to a mature state I find myself on CDMA MAYBE once every six months. Could this be used on Verizon as an LTE only device if you already have an active sim? Also, I see band 13 is not supported, is this not supported in the hardware or is the band support there and it is just disabled currently? If the latter is the case is there any chance it could be enabled by devs in the future? Really liking and wanting this phone but work pays for my service and only offer Verizon and I'm cheap and don't want to buy a plan just to get the phone. Thanks for anyone shedding some light on this.
I ordered this not knowing it was not fully compatible with VZW's network. It's a shame as this thing looks like a beast. I just cancelled my order.
Oh well, I have too many phones anyway.
Yesterday I said "screw it" and reordered the 5T. I got a plan with T-Mobile. If I can get good signal, I'll switch as all our other phones over since T-Mobile is much cheaper than VZW.
Just to clarify - does voice and sms work on Verizon? I'm on T-Mobile and one of the places I visit has Verizon coverage not T-Mobile. I carry a payg phone for those visits. Don't need data just the ability for people to reach me. Be nice if I could use my 5T for that.
Thanks
Tolax
Tolax said:
Just to clarify - does voice and sms work on Verizon? I'm on T-Mobile and one of the places I visit has Verizon coverage not T-Mobile. I carry a payg phone for those visits. Don't need data just the ability for people to reach me. Be nice if I could use my 5T for that.
Thanks
Tolax
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Voice does work. It does through 1x and you will get 3g most of the time. Not sure about MMS or SMS though.
This is likely a stupid question but I'm wondering since its a dual SIM if you can have a T-Mobile and a VZW SIM installed? Would that allow voice for VZW?
Mike02z said:
This is likely a stupid question but I'm wondering since its a dual SIM if you can have a T-Mobile and a VZW SIM installed? Would that allow voice for VZW?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Not stupid, and yes it does. I had a Tmobs and VZW SIM in a Oneplus 5 and it worked well together. But the VZW service is very poor.
Sent from my Pixel 2 XL using Tapatalk
I'm wondering if anyone else is or has been experiencing this issue. For the last couple weeks my black Pixel 2XL 128gig on Android 8.0 is having a problem switching from LTE to HSPA when trying to make a phone call. I've been on the phone with both Google and AT&T numerous times. ATT deactivated and reactivated my sim card. I ended up getting a new sim card and still didn't fix the problem. Google eventually sent me a brand new phone and I'm still having the same problem. Now Google wants to send me another new phone. I had the original pixel XL on ATT and did not have this issue at all. Anyone else having a similar issue?
Uh... Yes, that's normal, you don't have VoLTE enabled. There's a whole thread about enabling it with AT&T here on the boards. TLR of that thread, download the Oreo 8.1 beta, enable VoLTE in the software, talk to AT&T to enable enhanced voice features.
Sent from my Pixel 2 XL using Tapatalk
You may need a new sim card, I had similar issues, visited an AT&T store and it was fixed within five minutes.
dratsablive said:
You may need a new sim card, I had similar issues, visited an AT&T store and it was fixed within five minutes.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I did get a new SIM card. Still was experiencing the same problem. I updated to 8.1 beta to and enabled enhanced LTE to see if that fixes the issue.
JaredC01 said:
Uh... Yes, that's normal, you don't have VoLTE enabled. There's a whole thread about enabling it with AT&T here on the boards. TLR of that thread, download the Oreo 8.1 beta, enable VoLTE in the software, talk to AT&T to enable enhanced voice features.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
It definitely was not normal. I had a the first pixel XL before this and did not experience this issue.
dutchy716 said:
It definitely was not normal. I had a the first pixel XL before this and did not experience this issue.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Then somehow you had VoLTE on your first Pixel. Without VoLTE, the phone will 100% of the time kick back out to HSPA+ when you make a phone call. That's been the case with every phone I've owned prior to VoLTE and actually having a phone that had and made use of VoLTE.
Sent from my Pixel 2 XL using Tapatalk
JaredC01 said:
Then somehow you had VoLTE on your first Pixel. Without VoLTE, the phone will 100% of the time kick back out to HSPA+ when you make a phone call. That's been the case with every phone I've owned prior to VoLTE and actually having a phone that had and made use of VoLTE.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I know it's supposed to kick back to HSPA when making a phone call. The problem is that it doesn't. Instead of going to HSPA I lose signal completely. The phone will try to make the phone call and then the phone will manually hang up like I hit the end call button but it does it automatically. Then I either have to toggle airplane mode or reboot the phone to get LTE again.
dutchy716 said:
I know it's supposed to kick back to HSPA when making a phone call. The problem is that it doesn't. Instead of going to HSPA I lose signal completely. The phone will try to make the phone call and then the phone will manually hang up like I hit the end call button but it does it automatically. Then I either have to toggle airplane mode or reboot the phone to get LTE again.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Ah ha, your original post didn't make it sound like that. In that case, maybe try a new SIM card?
Edit: Re-read the first post and you already tried a new SIM. Have you tried a SIM from someone else, maybe on another Network to see if it's the phone or the network?
JaredC01 said:
Ah ha, your original post didn't make it sound like that. In that case, maybe try a new SIM card?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Ya I got a new SIM the other day. I talked to jcase about it and he believes it's a provisioning issue on AT&Ts end. I was just wondering if anyone else has experienced this and if they found a solution to it. I did end up upgrading to 8.1 beta and that obviously fixed it because of enhanced calling. It's just weird because I haven't found anybody else who has had this problem.
dutchy716 said:
I'm wondering if anyone else is or has been experiencing this issue. For the last couple weeks my black Pixel 2XL 128gig on Android 8.0 is having a problem switching from LTE to HSPA when trying to make a phone call. I've been on the phone with both Google and AT&T numerous times. ATT deactivated and reactivated my sim card. I ended up getting a new sim card and still didn't fix the problem. Google eventually sent me a brand new phone and I'm still having the same problem. Now Google wants to send me another new phone. I had the original pixel XL on ATT and did not have this issue at all. Anyone else having a similar issue?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
One thing you should always try before going to the provider is a safe mode boot. I tried a new rom and could not get data. Most things worked but no data. I could call and WIFI but no cellular data. In safe mode I got data. That tells you some third party APP is responsible.
JaredC01 said:
Then somehow you had VoLTE on your first Pixel. Without VoLTE, the phone will 100% of the time kick back out to HSPA+ when you make a phone call. That's been the case with every phone I've owned prior to VoLTE and actually having a phone that had and made use of VoLTE.
Sent from my Pixel 2 XL using Tapatalk
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
What does VoLTE have to do having LTE data while on a call? I don't see any reason why you couldn't have LTE available for data even when it doesn't support LTE for voice calls.
I've had LTE switch to H every time I've made a phone call on my Nexus 5, Nexus 5X and Pixel 2 XL. Since 8.1 I've had VoLTE. I know because when I make a call I see the "HD" which is VoLTE but the LTE still switches to H so it seems like the two are related.
jimv1983 said:
What does VoLTE have to do having LTE data while on a call?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Uhm, everything? VoLTE is Voice over LTE which implies that you have an LTE radio connection (as opposed to a UMTS/WCDMA/HS*PA radio connection).
jimv1983 said:
I don't see any reason why you couldn't have LTE available for data even when it doesn't support LTE for voice calls.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
That's because you don't understand the fundamental way in which cellular networks work. Don't feel bad - you're not alone; it's a complicated topic.
The radio on your device can only support one type of radio connection at a time. There are a multitude of reasons for this: capacity on the chip, the need for multiple amplifiers to work simultaneously (because typically carriers use different parts of the radio spectrum for one Radio Access Type than another), antenna capacity etc. Keep in mind that are scenarios in which your device is already juggling quasi multiple radio connects, e.g. carrier aggregation.
Don't get me wrong, there have been devices that supported multiple simultaneous radio access technologies on a single device, but that's because they had multiple radios. These were older devices on IS-95 CDMA carriers such a Sprint when they were pushing WIMAX, and even I believe some Verizon devices which allowed them to do multi-RAB for simultaneous voice and calls before their CDMA infrastructure was upgraded to allow this (and prior to their VoLTE launch). These devices are few and far between.
One last point on this topic: the network handles handover between RATs (though it's possible for the device to only support one RAT). If you were allowed to have simultaneous connections to two radio access types, the network would be juggling twice the resources for your device (the transmit and receive portion of a data connection or call is not the only resource involved). This is yet another reason why in most circumstances you'll never see two simultaneous RATs for one device: it costs the network money. Unless you're trying to cover up for a deficiency is your network architecture (e.g. IS-95 CDMA networks lack of support for multi-RAB. Multi-RAB refers to radio access bearers, basically multiple virtual connections across a single radio link. You might think of this like VLANs on an ethernet network.) you don't put the network and engineering expenses to support multiple RATs..
jimv1983 said:
I've had LTE switch to H every time I've made a phone call on my Nexus 5, Nexus 5X and Pixel 2 XL. Since 8.1 I've had VoLTE. I know because when I make a call I see the "HD" which is VoLTE but the LTE still switches to H so it seems like the two are related.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Actually, no. "HD" stands for "HD Voice" which is a better codec. Depending on the carrier, you may get HD voice on a 3G RAT and VoLTE RAT or just on a VoLTE RAT. Keep in mind that HD Voice uses more radio resource than the standard GSM codecs, so there's a trade-off involved here. LTE is more spectral efficient, so offering the higher quality, higher bit rate voice codec on VoLTE has less of an impact on the network than offering it on VoLTE + 3G. So depending on your carrier, they may or may not allow the HD codec on non-VoLTE radio connections. Either way, HD does not in any way shape or form constitute having a VoLTE connection, since it's radio access type independent.
RomPlinker said:
Uhm, everything? VoLTE is Voice over LTE which implies that you have an LTE radio connection (as opposed to a UMTS/WCDMA/HS*PA radio connection).
That's because you don't understand the fundamental way in which cellular networks work. Don't feel bad - you're not alone; it's a complicated topic.
The radio on your device can only support one type of radio connection at a time. There are a multitude of reasons for this: capacity on the chip, the need for multiple amplifiers to work simultaneously (because typically carriers use different parts of the radio spectrum for one Radio Access Type than another), antenna capacity etc. Keep in mind that are scenarios in which your device is already juggling quasi multiple radio connects, e.g. carrier aggregation.
Don't get me wrong, there have been devices that supported multiple simultaneous radio access technologies on a single device, but that's because they had multiple radios. These were older devices on IS-95 CDMA carriers such a Sprint when they were pushing WIMAX, and even I believe some Verizon devices which allowed them to do multi-RAB for simultaneous voice and calls before their CDMA infrastructure was upgraded to allow this (and prior to their VoLTE launch). These devices are few and far between.
One last point on this topic: the network handles handover between RATs (though it's possible for the device to only support one RAT). If you were allowed to have simultaneous connections to two radio access types, the network would be juggling twice the resources for your device (the transmit and receive portion of a data connection or call is not the only resource involved). This is yet another reason why in most circumstances you'll never see two simultaneous RATs for one device: it costs the network money. Unless you're trying to cover up for a deficiency is your network architecture (e.g. IS-95 CDMA networks lack of support for multi-RAB. Multi-RAB refers to radio access bearers, basically multiple virtual connections across a single radio link. You might think of this like VLANs on an ethernet network.) you don't put the network and engineering expenses to support multiple RATs..
Actually, no. "HD" stands for "HD Voice" which is a better codec. Depending on the carrier, you may get HD voice on a 3G RAT and VoLTE RAT or just on a VoLTE RAT. Keep in mind that HD Voice uses more radio resource than the standard GSM codecs, so there's a trade-off involved here. LTE is more spectral efficient, so offering the higher quality, higher bit rate voice codec on VoLTE has less of an impact on the network than offering it on VoLTE + 3G. So depending on your carrier, they may or may not allow the HD codec on non-VoLTE radio connections. Either way, HD does not in any way shape or form constitute having a VoLTE connection, since it's radio access type independent.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
My Pixel 2 XL does VoLTE on AT&T. "HD" might have different meanings in different cases but in this case the "HD" does mean VoLTE. Google specifically stated that in release notes for 8.1 on the Pixel 2 XL.
Also, back when I had a Galaxy S2 Skyrocket (AT&T's LTE variant of the Galaxy S2 and its first LTE phone) back in late 2011 it didn't do VoLTE but it did allow LTE data while a voice call was in progress.
Hi all,
I have in my hands an unopened G960F/DS. I was considering this phone to replace an old model, it's long due. I thought I did my homework and was able to determine this phone worked on Verizon in the US, but a serious note on the box and further research suggests I may have been wrong. Although it would be nice to have new hardware, I am replacing the old one almost entirely out of a desire to flash a custom ROM on it. I was under the impression the lack of CDMA support wasn't a big issue given that Verizon (and everyone else) is phasing out CDMA and the phone still had LTE. Thus my choice of the F/DS. I am informed that opening the box and returning the phone will incur a charge, while keeping the box sealed and returning it will not. I am trying to decide to continue forward and test on Verizon's network here in the US or just return the thing, the choice lies in compatibility with this network. So now I get to play a guessing game.
I find myself in 4G LTE areas most of the time. I want to use data and make voice calls.
This 2-post thread suggests not much can be done:
https://forum.xda-developers.com/galaxy-s9/help/sm-g960f-verizon-network-t3856443
This guy demonstrating slower speeds, which I'm not too concerned about, but also HSPA+ in an area he usually gets LTE. In the video description he says after applying a software update it works 'fine':
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pkNXCK2iVO8
This site lists some band compatibility but doesn't say anything about not being able to use it with Verizon:
https://apn.gishan.net/en/apn/verizon/samsung-galaxy-s9
This site also lists band compatibility but warns about Verizon's strict device policy:
https://www.frequencycheck.com/carr...e-samsung-star/verizon-wireless-united-states
Is there any hope to use an unlocked S9 on Verizon in the US? I see this going one of several ways: 1) Everyone works out and I can make calls and use data and there are no issues and rainbows and unicorns 2) Data in certain places, no voice because something something "VoLTE" 3) Absolutely no data/voice whatsoever 4) I switch carriers I return this piece of junk and buy a phone that works. (might coincide with 2/3)
If I end up with (4), how can I avoid this issue in the future? I spent some considerable time deciding on this model, which has the features I want and an unlockable bootloader. Will the S10 have this issue? What about the Note 9? I apologize for the noobposting, and if I missed a thread that answered this question. Thanks for any help you can provide, I sincerely appreciate it.
Edit: This thread asks a similar question but isn't specific and neither are the answers:
https://us.community.samsung.com/t5/Galaxy-S9/Unlocked-galaxy-S9-on-Verizon/td-p/277493
I have been using a G965f/ds on Verizon Wireless.
VoLTE, vowifi, text, and data work after rooting.
Having done a speed test with a U device and on the g965f/ds, the speed I can receive seems equal.
I haven't had issues with making LTE calls in my area.
CynicalHeight00 said:
I have been using a G965f/ds on Verizon Wireless.
VoLTE, vowifi, text, and data work after rooting.
Having done a speed test with a U device and on the g965f/ds, the speed I can receive seems equal.
I haven't had issues with making LTE calls in my area.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Thanks for the feedback. Are you based in the US? How did you activate the phone? I found instructions on LTE activation here:
www . verizonwireless . com/businessportals/support/how_to_use/activate_4g_lte.html
And an IMEI checker, which fails when I enter what I find on the box my phone is in:
www . verizonwireless . com/od/prepaid/bring-your-own-device/#/checkDevice
Edit: It also looks like they have a second page that checks IMEI (this also fails for me). Can you tell me what either of these pages say when you enter your IMEI?
www . verizonwireless . com/onedp/byod#/
I reside in the US.
The imei of my g965d/fs failed when inputted in to their system;however, the SIM is all that's needed for Verizon wireless to work on it. Initially, though, you might need to insert the SIM card into another imei Verizon wireless compatible device only to allow the system to have that imei in the system for your number. Since, you already have vzw, I'm assuming you already are activated on it with a device, so moving sims is the next step.
Thanks for your input. Anyone else have experience with this device on Verizon's network?
I could have written this exact post.
jmtroth said:
Thanks for your input. Anyone else have experience with this device on Verizon's network?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I am trying to do the same thing with the same model Note 9, SM-N960F/DS. I was told by Verizon Level 2 tech rep that simply installing an activated SIM would make the phone work, obviously 4gLTE only since there are no CDMA bands. He checked the 4 bands Verizon uses for their 4gLTE and the F/DS model has all 4 of them.
I am in the same boat as you though. IF I try it and it doesn't work I have to return and lose $125 or switch to GSM network (AT&T or TMO) I am also trying to decide whether to take the gamble. This Level 2 Tech guy didn't mention anything about having to root the phone.
I would also like to know about the advisability of attempting this. I thought I read somewhere that this phone won't have any warranty in US anyway but I am not 100% sure about that. Sellers seem to want to gloss over that issue.
I'm very very interested in this
to put this to bed, you cant use any F galaxy phone on verizon and get full usage. vzw is a CDMA based carrier whereby voice is transmitted primarily via CDMA and data over GSM (which includes voLTE, obviously). The F model do not have CDMA radios in them. You CAN get data to work and therefore voLTE as long as you can flash the vzw CSC to get the phone to install the voLTE app. Long story short, dont try it. Its a fruitless endeavor. I mean, do what you want, i guess, but dont expect for the F to work well, or at all on vzw. There is nothing anybody on xda or anywhere can do to alleviate that.
I had straight talk using Verizon towers on note 8, my note 8 broke, I missed flashing custom ROMs, I bought a note 9 n960f, read online it would work too. I inserted sim. Did not get data or calls. Flashed custom ROMs found a lineage is rom that worked with data for like 2 min then quit. I kept Singapore rom csc stock radios I guess from Singapore, guy on here said he flashed Singapore stock Odin flash and ended up making his work but didn't work with my straight talk Verizon sim. My buddy came over and he uses visible network on Verizon towers we popped in his sim and it worked flawlessly on stock Singapore csc/flashed custom rom from xda. I switched, it's cheaper, it works and first month was 5$ no fee to transfer my number over. Visible is great, join a group and it's 25$ a month.