Hey guys
Im on holiday now so cannot really check myself the differences, but just wanted some quick info on the A2SD, with the official froyo i was hoping everybody will start using it, but somehow people still using the old method, whys that?
thanks
Froyo A2SD is completely reliant on app developers. If the devs doesn't allow it in their app then it can't be moved to the SD card. This is really only a problem because Froyo is still new.
Old A2SD you can dump everything on the SD
However, I'd be interested in seeing if there is a way to force an app onto the nand using A2SD+. Would work better for things like widgets, home replacements etc, as they'd run quicker for people with slow sd cards.
Probably because the FroYo one sucks !
Why ? Well, mostly because devs have to rewrite their apps so they can use FroYo's app2sd function...
With the "old-fashioned" a2sd, there is no need to do anything, just sit and enjoy the free space
APP2SD allows you to move certain apps to your SD card and run them from there BUT as these are placed on the normal root of the SD when you mount the SD, via USB for example, you loose access to these apps until you remount SD. This means you cant install widgets to the SD and such like.
APP2SD+ on the other hand uses an ext3 partition (or ext4 on newer versions) which then installs all apps & widgets to that partition and when the SD is mounted you dont lose any apps or widgets as is located in a seperate partition.
Hope that helps.
Sent from my HTC Desire using XDA App
Sent from my HTC Desire using XDA App
wow! thats quick thanks for you input guys think you explained everything i wanted to know really
Id want to use the offical a2sd as i think using ext3 partitioned sd card have already slightly damaged the card cuz it keeps giving me errors everytime i connect it to a pc
mrwookie6379 said:
APP2SD allows you to move certain apps to your SD card and run them from there BUT as these are placed on the normal root of the SD when you mount the SD, via USB for example, you loose access to these apps until you remount SD. This means you cant install widgets to the SD and such like.
APP2SD+ on the other hand uses an ext3 partition (or ext4 on newer versions) which then installs all apps & widgets to that partition and when the SD is mounted you dont lose any apps or widgets as is located in a seperate partition.
Hope that helps.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
So let me understand the names:
APPS2SD = Froyo Original (comes with official Froyo release)
APPS2SD+ = Hacked version which has been out since FRF50 leak?
EDIT: But if APPS2SD+ is so much better (keeps apps on ext3 partition), why to people keep using the original APPS2SD on their ROMs?
Check this explaination. Quoted from neoKushan from yesterdays thread.
neoKushan said:
Ok, so here's the deal, in a very longwinded way that should hopefully explain everything and answer ALL questions.
You have an SD card in your phone and, a bit like normal PC Hard Drives, you can "partition" them (split them into two or more sections of different filesystems). Normally, your SD card is just one big FAT32 partition, which is fine for storing your pics, messages, emails, etc.
Now, other then your Phone's SD card, your phone will have its own internal flash memory (or "NAND") storage. Tradditionally with Android, you could only install applications to this NAND storage, you cannot install them onto your SD card. So if you have an empty 32GB SD card, but only 5Mb of internal phone storage, you still wont be able to install many apps, if any at all.
This was done to protect the apps from things like piracy - it's not easy to access the location where apps are installed on your phone's internal storage (normally impossible without root), so you can't for example buy an app, copy it, refund it, then install it again.
Still, this is no good for those of us who like to install lots and lots of apps, legitimately, as we run out of internal storage very quickly.
So Google came up with a way to install apps to the SD card. A folder is created called something like .android_secure and this stores (I believe) encrypted versions of applications, but there's a few catches:
1) Apps aren't automatically stored here, you have to manually "move" them
2) Not all apps are capable of being moved, in fact most apps aren't, the developer needs to update their app and allow it. Some apps aren't and wont be updated and some developers may not want to allow it for whatever reason.
3) Not all app data is moved, most of it is but some data is left on your phone so many people still run out of internal storage quickly.
4) You can force ALL apps to be moved to this area by default, but it breaks incompatible ones - such as Widgets, which are unable to load due to the SD card not being "prepared".
So that's Froyo's version. Before Froyo existed, some very clever people came up with a thing called "Apps2SD". Remember I said that your SD card normally is one big FAT32 partition? Well, Apps2SD works by having your SD card patitioned into TWO filesystems. A normal FAT32 partition for your usual stuff and a secondary "EXT" partition. EXT is just a filesystem, like FAT32 or NTFS, but it's the filesystem used by Android internally. The SD card is normally FAT32 because it's a "universal" filesystem, that just about any machine will be able to read, whereas EXT filesystems are generally Linux only, but I digress.
EXT has several different versions. The most common one you'll see is ext3. The main difference between ext2 and ext3 is "journaling", which is just a fancy way of saying that should an operation (such as copying, writing or reading) be interrupted unexpectedly (say, by you turning your phone off), then no data should be lost or corrupted. You know how when you turn your phone on, it says "preparing SD card"? It takes a few minutes, but what it's actually doing is checking that the FAT32 partition hasn't been damaged, because FAT does NOT have journaling. If you used a computer back in the Windows 98 days, you may remember that lovely blue "Scandisk" screen that had to run every time you didn't shut your computer down correctly - that's the same thing. But then Windows 2000/XP came along with NTFS, which also has journaling, meaning you had less chance of loosing data. But I digress once more.
So you have your SD card partitioned into EXT and FAT32. Generally it doesn't matter if it's ext3 or ext4, but you don't get any real advantage with ext4 over ext3 in this instance. Apps2SD then runs a special script on your phone which "symbolically links" the folder from your phone's internal storage where your apps are normally stored, to the ext partition on your SD card. A symbolic link is a bit like a shortcut for folders, except it's transparent to the OS: In other words, Android doesn't know that when it's installing it's apps to the internal phone storage, it's actually being stored on the SD card. This effectively boosts your internal phone memory from the previous 5mb that you had in my example above, up to whatever size you made the ext partition on your SD card (often 512Mb or 1Gb, but it depends on how many apps you install).
Plus, because it's "journaled", it doesn't need to be "prepared", meaning it's ready to go as soon as the phone starts - so your widgets and apps work immediately (unlike "forced" Froyo Apps2SD, where widgets disappear).
The catch with Apps2SD is that whatever space the ext partition takes up is taken away from the SD card. So if you have a 4Gb card (with something like 3.5Gb of actual storage) and you make a 512Mb ext partition, your SD card will "shrink" to 3Gb. The space isn't actually lost, it's just being used by the ext partition. If you reformat your card, you'll get it back.
Finally, there's a difference between "Apps2SD" and "Apps2SD+". Remember I said that your apps are stored on a special folder inside your Phone's NAND storage? Well, that was a bit of a lie. It's actually stored in TWO places. There's a second area which is called the Davlik Cache. You don't really need to worry about what this is for (Hint: IT's to do with the Java runetime your phone uses to run apps), all you need to know is that apps use it to store data, which also eats up internal phone memory. Apps2SD+ moves davlik cache to the ext partition on your SD card as well, freeing up even more space. Some people believe that this may come at the cost of performance, as the internal NAND memory should be faster than your SD card (Which is why you also get people arguing over which "class" SD card is better for Apps2SD - the logic being that a faster SD card means less impact from this move), but the truth of the matter is that your applications will be running from your Phone's RAM anyway, so performance isn't really impacted at all. Since most apps are only a few hundred Kb's in size, or a couple of MB at the most, it's a non-issue.
Finally, any recent version of Apps2SD/Apps2SD+ should work with an SD card that is or isn't formatted with an ext partition. It'll check for this partition when your phone first boots and if it's not there, just use internal phone storage.
Having an ext partition WITHOUT Apps2SD+ shouldn't cause any issues, either, so you can format your SD card whenever you're ready.
So in summary:
Apps2SD "fakes" your phone's internal memory and puts it all on a hidden section of your SD card.
Apps2SD+ pushes even more content to the SD card, freeing up even more space on the phone itself.
"Froyo" Apps2SD has various limitations that "old" apps2SD does not, but is much easier to handle as it doesn't involve any kind of "partitioning".
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
That's a great summary, thanks for that!
But... how can I create an ext3 partition on a new SD card? I don't want to use ROM Manager because that has a maximum of 512Mb for ext3, I want to make 1gb or more.
Also, what size should I make swap partition?
Vice83 said:
That's a great summary, thanks for that!
But... how can I create an ext3 partition on a new SD card? I don't want to use ROM Manager because that has a maximum of 512Mb for ext3, I want to make 1gb or more.
Also, what size should I make swap partition?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You can do that thru recovery-windows.bat by going thru recovery mode by volume down + power, go to recovery then when the red exclamation point appears just run the recovery-windows.bat by double clicking on it. You can get these files from r5-desire-root-alt from the rooting process files (search the forums for this if you don't have it). But be cautious cause when you partition your sd card, all your files will be wiped so make sure to backup everything you need. Cheers!
Edit:
Actually this summary about the ap2sd and ap2sd+ and froyo ap2sd should be stickyed for everyone, so it would not be ask over and over again.
Couple of extra ways to partition:
1) Flash AmonRA's Recovery to your phone (I used Unrevoked to do it)
2) Use GParted on a Linux LiveCD (e.g Slax) to partition your card exactly how you want it
Vice83 said:
That's a great summary, thanks for that!
But... how can I create an ext3 partition on a new SD card? I don't want to use ROM Manager because that has a maximum of 512Mb for ext3, I want to make 1gb or more.
Also, what size should I make swap partition?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
ROM Manager is probably the easiest way to do it, but I was stuck with EXACTLY the same problem when I rooted. I chose to flash AMON Ra recovery (don't have the link, but you can google it up), and then used that to create a 1024MB ext partition. Then used AMON Ra again to convert the ext partition to ext3. Hope that helps.
However, one question I have regarding neoKushan's explanation is that if I did create a 1024MB ext3 partition, then the same capacity should be visible in the phone's internal memory. However, after I rooted and restored my apps, I could only see about 100+ MB of free internal memory. Can anyone help me with this please? Am using the Opendesire Official Froyo 1.0c ROM that has A2SD built in
deepdevil said:
ROM Manager is probably the easiest way to do it, but I was stuck with EXACTLY the same problem when I rooted. I chose to flash AMON Ra recovery (don't have the link, but you can google it up), and then used that to create a 1024MB ext partition. Then used AMON Ra again to convert the ext partition to ext3. Hope that helps.
However, one question I have regarding neoKushan's explanation is that if I did create a 1024MB ext3 partition, then the same capacity should be visible in the phone's internal memory. However, after I rooted and restored my apps, I could only see about 100+ MB of free internal memory. Can anyone help me with this please? Am using the Opendesire Official Froyo 1.0c ROM that has A2SD built in
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I'm not sure about what exact capacity for the internal memory after partitioning to ext3 but when I was on Opendesire before for the eclair 2.1 after I'm done flashing the rom and setting up the whole ap2sd+ my internal memory was 410mb. I used:
swap=0
ext=1024
fat32 is for the rest of the card
Then after upgrading to froyo rooted ROM, I'm only getting 140mb tops. I dunno... I'm too lazy now to get into it right now... maybe soon I'll play around with it again so I can get back my 410mb internal space with the ap2sd+
Stewge said:
Froyo A2SD is completely reliant on app developers. If the devs doesn't allow it in their app then it can't be moved to the SD card. This is really only a problem because Froyo is still new.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Not 100% true, because you can change the default install location to SD card (via ADB if stock, and an app if rooted) and then you can have the vast majority of your apps on SD card even if they've not been updated for Froyo.
Regards,
Dave
I always thought the main negative with A2SD+ was that the cache was moved to the sdcard, which of course would wear out the sdcard (slightly) quicker.
Vice83 said:
So let me understand the names:
APPS2SD = Froyo Original (comes with official Froyo release)
APPS2SD+ = Hacked version which has been out since FRF50 leak?
EDIT: But if APPS2SD+ is so much better (keeps apps on ext3 partition), why to people keep using the original APPS2SD on their ROMs?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Not exactly!
Prior to Froyo, there were principally two versions of Apps2SD:
1. APPS2SD (or A2SD )
2. APPS2SD+ (or A2SD+)
The first would move your apps to the EXT partition, and the second would move your apps and the Dalvik cache to the EXT partition (see here for an explanation of the Dalvik cache).
Now we have Froyo, we have "native", or "Froyo" apps2sd as well, which does much the same as (1) above except that there is no EXT partition and the apps are on the FAT32 partition of your SD card.
Regards,
Dave
sparksalot said:
I always thought the main negative with A2SD+ was that the cache was moved to the sdcard, which of course would wear out the sdcard (slightly) quicker.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Dalvik cache is only actually updated when a new app is installed or and old app is updated, so whilst it will incur more writes to SD card, it probably isn't anywhere near as much as the apps write themselves to the FAT32 partition.
Regards,
Dave
Great summary, but can I format my 8 GB SD card as EXT3 and just forget about the FAT partition? I'm using Ubuntu on my laptop and my EXT4 /home partition is just fine for storing images, movies etc. I really don't get this ado about having an EXT and a FAT partition. Or am I wrong here?
quick question, if i move to another bigger sd card, can i copy my card and transfer it to the new one without losing the EXT, and the apps on it? would i need to make a image of the card? thanx for any advice.
make a backup of them first on your pc and copy them to the newly partitioned sdcard....ext to ext and fat to fat
So there is 3 versions?
1. Froyo A2sd = fat32 only = apps installed to sd
2. A2sd = fat32 + ext = apps installed to sd in ext partition
3. A2sd+ = fat32 + ext = apps installed and Dalvik cache moved to sd in ext partition
Is there any more variants? lol
Sent from my HTC Desire using XDA App
I can only assume this has been asked and answered, but I have searched and not been able to fine a suitable post yet...
I want to find a guide to format and partition my (16GB in my case) SD card in the best way for the current/future Desire ROMs
eesmm said:
I can only assume this has been asked and answered, but I have searched and not been able to fine a suitable post yet...
I want to find a guide to format and partition my (16GB in my case) SD card in the best way for the current/future Desire ROMs
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You can use Windows to format the sd card to Fat32, after which you can then use Rom Manager (download from market) to create a ext partition (it will shrink the Fat32 partition to make room for the ext partition)
Alternatively, you can do it all in linux and it's pretty straight forward.
For example, Ubuntu (you can download a live version of ubuntu which you can burn to cd or copy to a bootable usb stick) can read the sd card (I just connect the phone whilst in clockworkmod recovery, select mount usb, and voila) and then you can use 'Disk Utility' located in the administrative tools area of Ubuntu to delete the stock partition that comes with most pre-formatted memory cards, create a Fat32 partition (Eg: 15GB) and then create an ext4 partition with the remaining space.
Using Linux is handy for backing up the contents of your ext partition - particularly useful when upgrading from a smaller sd card to a larger one but wanting to keep all your data.
I'm not the greatest at writing instructions and I have no idea if any of the above helps you in any way, but I hope it does!
I would use ROM Manager, but the Max partition size seems to be 512 and i want to make a 2GB partition. I am also unsure of whether the EXT partition (is EXT 3 or EXT4 best) should be primary or secondary, and will the Desire automatically start putting APPs there?
...and and what point do I turn the card back into a Goldcard, if at all necessary?
eesmm said:
I would use ROM Manager, but the Max partition size seems to be 512 and i want to make a 2GB partition. I am also unsure of whether the EXT partition (is EXT 3 or EXT4 best) should be primary or secondary, and will the Desire automatically start putting APPs there?
...and and what point do I turn the card back into a Goldcard, if at all necessary?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
1) Gparted is the best partition tool ;-) It can be used as a live CD - which can be booted in virtual box.
2) You'll never need a goldcard, unless you want to go back to stock RUU (ie to send your phone back to get fixed).
3) EXT4 Primary partition
4) The desire will put apps there if the rom has Apps2sd enabled. Most roms these days do, but some require you to install the script yourself. 2gb seems a lot for just apps though.
Simple is better.
I myself have an 8gb sd card and used rom manager to partition it. I did not format my sd card beforehand, just took out the card from the package and put it into my phone.
Checking my appbrain list, i currently have 132 apps with a total size of 344MB.
Using the app Quick System Info:
A2SD storage-- Total: 458MB, Free: 110 MB
Internal storage-- Total: 148MB, Free:63.34 MB
I personally think 512 MB partition is more than enough.
friedkimchi said:
I personally think 512 MB partition is more than enough.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yeah, I'd agree with this. I had a 512MB partition - extended it using gparted to 1GB but it really was a pointless activity as I was nowhere near using the 512MB in the first place
Oh well - future proof I guess!
@ OP... What would you need 2GB for? Seems, well, excessive...
BTW, the latest clockworkmod supports partitioning directly in the recovery menu and I believe it will give you the size you want.
I have an 8GB SanDisk MicroSD, it had a 500MB SD-EXT partition made using ROM Manager with 0MB of Swap. I was using OpenDesire, the latest version.
However I decided to change to Cynanogen 6.1.1, as it is more stable. I decided to Un-Mount and Format my SD Card, as I know this wont format my SD-Ext. After Formatting my SD Card wouldn't re-mount so I connected it to my computer, and formatted it again, by right clicking and clicking Format in My Computer.
After doing this it said I had 7.86 GB of Memory on my SD-Card. This is how much is left on the SD Card with no Partition's or data. After I installed Cynanogen, when wiping the user data, I noticed that it said there was no SD-Ext partiton, and so it couldn't format it. I immidiatley went back to ROM Manager to create one, however when it gets to the Clockwork MOD Part I just get a error about a signature or something? Can anyone please help - thanks!
Perhaps the format option under settings wiped the whole SD card and repartitioned it with a single FAT partition, therefore deleting the EXT partition. Format from within windows/linux in future. AFAIK, there would not be an ext on a stock rom and therefore no need for one, so the format option just goes ahead an obliterates.
If you've got a nandroid you could just repartition and restore.
Sounds like it just formatted the whole thing into a single partition. Just partition it back again as your really suppose to do when switching roms.
hello,
first of all i would like to point out that i have searched for this topic and have tried a few solutions, but it didnt work..
here it goes..
so im switching to a new sd, and just tried to swap the cards but when i do that im either stuck in bootloop,
or if i reflash i have nothing installed on the phone (and i dont mean apps, bcs there isnt a lot of them and i dont mind reinstalling),
for example when i press settings it says it is not installed lol..
there is also nothing on the homescreens, and when the screen locks i cannot unlock it bcs there are no buttons..
Its a 16GB class 6 card with a fat 32, and ext3 (1024mb), and a ext4 (768mb), as is requred by some roms (feel free to correct me if im wrong)
The formatting was done by minitool, as i cannot go into disk drive mode to do it with gparted (with the new card inserted almost nothing works)
the old one is a 4gig with a etx3(1024mb) and works normally when i put it back, although sometimes it needs reflashing..
i have tried mirroring the old cards folder to the new one, via sd card reader, but it doesnt solve the problem...it stays the same..
any and all help is appreciated
You should do a nandroid backup of your rom, copy entire FAT32 over to the new card and then do a nandroid restore.
dusty_m said:
Its a 16GB class 6 card with a fat 32, and ext3 (1024mb), and a ext4 (768mb), as is requred by some roms (feel free to correct me if im wrong)
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
It was used by scripts which are not developed for about a year and thus obsolete. No mainstream script requires that.
Thx (hvala
will try it later on today....do i need any ext partitions?
is ext3 enough?
dusty_m said:
Thx (hvala
will try it later on today....do i need any ext partitions?
is ext3 enough?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
It is enough, but the question remains whether it will work if you used that same dual ext partitions setup on your old 4GB card. I'm not sure, but maybe someone could clarify that. Ext partition is needed, otherwise you'll end in a bootloop - especially if some vital parts of the rom were symlinked there.
I presume you have cwm recovery installed.
If so format your card with SDformatter V 3.1. TO FAT 32 with size adjustment on.
This will format all your card to fat32,
Put the card back in phone and partition the card from within cwm recovery,
Select size of ext partition (1024kb is usually big enough) select 0 for swap.
Ext partitions are used to save on internal memory by moving apps ( (and sometimes data and dalvik cache aswell) to the ext partition and using it as if it was internal memory.
Hope this helps...
i have used only ext3 on my old card...so i guess the same would work on the new one....
so if i got this right, i can restore the old rom via nandroid...and i guess flashing something else in the future should also work...
CWM Recovery is at version 5.0.2.6 at the moment this partitions sdext with ext3 which works fine on nearly all roms. There is a 4Ext Recovery available which can convert ext3 to ext4 if required, just do a search for it if you need it, but you should be fine with ext3.
i have AmonRA
edit: am i able to to the same with it?
i remember it has the format option in the menu...
also 1024kb?
i have 1024mb lol
Yea I presume so, I use cwm!. Just follow the instructions for your rom..and create the partition if required
The restore thingy didnt help, ima still stuck at boot logo, or if i try another restore, i manage to boot, but again nothing is installed (settings and stuff)
will try the reformat and see how it goes...
why cant i just flash a brand new rom to this empty card?
I'm new in this so maybe this is a stupid question.
I need now to make a partition in 4extrecovery but when I go to Partition SD Card and then no- save my FAT32 partiton, then 1024 (1st sd-ext), then 0 (2nd sd-ext), then 512 (swap), then I got a error it says: There is too little space on the device to create this partiton layout.
I have a 8GB sd card and free is more then 4GB.
8gb and 4gb free? If u partition ur sdcard ul lose ur data. Do a backup first.
What rom r u using?
Sent from my HTC Desire
Currently I have the original sense ui, but I want to boot the MIUI Desire 2.4.13.
My mobile phone is rooted, now I need to boot the rom.
jmcclue said:
8gb and 4gb free? If u partition ur sdcard ul lose ur data. Do a backup first.
What rom r u using?
Sent from my HTC Desire
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I have a backup.
Someone please help?
If ur changing roms you will have to just backup your apps without the data, put the backup on your computer, then in recovery partition your sdcard to what the rom dev recommends then install the rom then put the backup back on your sdcard and install them all again.
Sent from my HTC Desire
Dino89 said:
I'm new in this so maybe this is a stupid question.
I need now to make a partition in 4extrecovery but when I go to Partition SD Card and then no- save my FAT32 partiton, then 1024 (1st sd-ext), then 0 (2nd sd-ext), then 512 (swap), then I got a error it says: There is too little space on the device to create this partiton layout.
I have a 8GB sd card and free is more then 4GB.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I've experienced this. Backup your entire sd card to your computer. There is no other way to do it. Partition your card without saving the FAT32. Set the size of the EXT partition you want, swap 0. That should do it.
Lets say you set 512MB as your SD EXT partition, and the rest is FAT32, the next time you try and repartition your SD EXT saving your FAT32, you can only partition it to less than the existing SD EXT partition. On my example that would be 512MB.
The reason you are getting that error when you do it right now is because you basically do not have an ext partition. So no exisiting ext partition=not enough space to work with.