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"Development and Hacking" forum grown and the topics are kinda mixed up.. eg: ROM development tools mixed with Themes, "ported/hacked" Applications, user-made apps, etc etc.
I think that this area should be divised. It's hard to seek a topic. Maybe one is interested in ROM tools (eg: NBHextract, XIP port, dumprom, etc,etc), maybe someone in ported applications (omnia touchwizz interface, asus glide, xperia panels, xperia camera, htc album, etc), maybe others in development resoruces.. and maybe others in applications made by xda-developers.
So, one sugestion is to split create one new category Development and Hacking wich contains the following sub-forums:
- ROM Development Tools
- Homescreen Plugins (Manilla, TouchWizz, Asus Glide, BatteryMetter, etc)
- Ported Applications
- xda-dev Applications
- xda-dev Games
- Applications Hacking (?)
- Development Resources & Tips & Tricks
The name of the forums may not be the same.. also, other sub-forums may be added.. This is just a suggestion. This forum really contains valuable information but it must be more organized.
Regards
i would have to disagree myself. i think the section is fine the way it is (all the question threads removed ) If you know what you are after then you just need to search. I think splitting things up willo nly result in more confusion on the common user's part (not knowing where top ost with so many options) and further more this is a development website, not a cache of programs like a freeware website. Whats being developed at the moment will be on top, everything else will fade out behind but still accesible if you know what you are looking for.
First, sorry if the original version of this comes off the wrong way, I just noticed it might read a little snotty...especially since I started typing it before joel2009's post, but it as posted up later it reads like I'm arguing.
joel2009 said:
I think splitting things up will only result in more confusion on the common user's part (not knowing where to post with so many options) and further more this is a development website, not a cache of programs like a freeware website. Whats being developed at the moment will be on top, everything else will fade out behind but still accesible if you know what you are looking for.
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The main problem I think is that there's so much traffic in that single spot that the list of threads marked "Today" stretches into the 5th page sometimes. I'm pretty sure a lot more gets lost and many good threads aren't seen at all. It's made worse by there being a couple of different forums listed under specific models of phone which are obviously resources for many others. Examples include:
Kaiser software, which has a lot of postings that apply to several other phones.
Raphael Software/Themes Apps and Software (Diamond), both of these basically cover the same thing. I've seen a number of people make requests or ask questions that are already resolved in the other thread.
The main D&H forum, even if you ignore the little groupings the OP had (i.e. xda releases vs. ported apps), is home to at least 3 very separate postings/releases; ROM Tools, Phone Apps, and Skins/Themes. For a "simple" user who's just trying to watch for themes and skins this is a lot of unnecessary noise. Imagine a Raphael or Diamond owner looking for applications, there's at least 4 groups to watch and 3 of them are kept under specific phones. A new diamond owner won't realize all the stuff they are missing. I think that's more confusing to new users.
My suggestion, to be taken worth it's digital equivalence to a grain of salt, is to break it up into ROM Tools, Apps (both ported and user-developed), Themes & Skins. I would also put them into a major category that would be consequently named Development and Hacking, and probably move the Networking and Upgrading groups over there as well.
I'd personally also like to see a single forum just dedicated to programming. It's pretty obvious that there's a good cross-section of members who are also programmers, some of which have demonstrated more talent than most other sites can boast. There's a lot of people trying to write programs but are rooting around a lot of other forums which aren't too suited to answer their questions. The other thing is that it might give more inspiration for some of the people who are good at UI and some people who are good with system/functional programming to talk to each other or even work together on apps. Many others have pointed it out, for a site to have 'developers' in the title, it's really strange that there's not even a little conversation about one of the main forms of development.
joel2009 information must be organized..
some things are contradictory in your post. you say "I think splitting things up willo nly result in more confusion on the common user's part" and "this is a development website". If it's a development website than the development area must be extended, not limited to one sub-forum that contains different kind of stuff.
Also, maybe some of us want to learn from other developers experience.. (see "Development Resources & Tips & Tricks" sub-forum)..
The way how it's in this moment create confusion not only for the developer but also for the regular users. Maybe some developers are interested only on ROM tools. Maybe some users are looking just ROM tools. It will be hard for all of us because this section of the site is constantly growing and contain all kind of stuff (themes, apps, tools, etc).
Organizing the information into sub-forums is A MUST.
+ you can add a new subforum for "Ideas for application" where people can post ideas for developers.
If detailed descriptions are used for each sub-forum there will be less to none confusion rate (additionally someone can write about these sections so everybody will understand..).
Just my humble opinion, but I think they fit well together. The difference is small between the two and it would just require me to check two boards to get the same info.
I say let's hold a vote.
DSF said:
"Development and Hacking" forum grown and the topics are kinda mixed up.. eg: ROM development tools mixed with Themes, "ported/hacked" Applications, user-made apps, etc etc.
I think that this area should be divised. It's hard to seek a topic. Maybe one is interested in ROM tools (eg: NBHextract, XIP port, dumprom, etc,etc), maybe someone in ported applications (omnia touchwizz interface, asus glide, xperia panels, xperia camera, htc album, etc), maybe others in development resoruces.. and maybe others in applications made by xda-developers.
So, one sugestion is to split create one new category Development and Hacking wich contains the following sub-forums:
- ROM Development Tools
- Homescreen Plugins (Manilla, TouchWizz, Asus Glide, BatteryMetter, etc)
- Ported Applications
- xda-dev Applications
- xda-dev Games
- Applications Hacking (?)
- Development Resources & Tips & Tricks
The name of the forums may not be the same.. also, other sub-forums may be added.. This is just a suggestion. This forum really contains valuable information but it must be more organized.
Regards
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I'v been thinking the same for a long time now.
Thats not contradictory at all. The Development and hacking section is for contributers, if you are contributing an app you are developing or in need of help dev, then that is what the section is for. Things start getting more complicated when you are trying to post your own work and there are several different sections you have to swarm though to find the appropriate one. I'm a fan of keep things simple.
If you are trying to follow a specific thread, then you can bookmark it or subscribe to it.
The main problem I think is that there's so much traffic in that single spot that the list of threads marked "Today" stretches into the 5th page sometimes. I'm pretty sure a lot more gets lost and many good threads aren't seen at all. It's made worse by there being a couple of different forums listed under specific models of phone which are obviously resources for many others.
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The list that is bold when you log on only shows the threads you have not read since the last time you viewed the page. If you are interested in reading everything than you will read on through them.
Here is an example, looking at you list of stuff:
- ROM Development Tools
- Homescreen Plugins (Manilla, TouchWizz, Asus Glide, BatteryMetter, etc)
- Ported Applications
- xda-dev Applications
- xda-dev Games
- Applications Hacking (?)
- Development Resources & Tips & Tricks
What if i ported a today plugin, then where would i put it?
This is just a small example but it illustrates my point that things can get messy upon where things go. Keeping one section keeps it simple and easy.
I understand both sides, but it seems that this point will be argued for a while longer, as it has been for the last few months.
I think the biggest problem is there are always themes coming out since newer apps are coming out with the ability to skin them. Personally, I would have to vote with the splitting of the two main sections since it is starting to grow a lot. On the other hand, they do fit together since a theme could be categorized as a "hack". But, the more and more the section grows, the harder it will be to find things. Considering all of the hard work and effort put into to these custom themes, a new section set for those who create the themes would be nice.
EDIT: lol DAMN! I thought the discussion was about themes and apps, my point still stands though.
joel2009 the list is just a suggestion - it may be modified.. What I wanted to underline is that the "Development and Hacking" forum is growing day by day, making harder to find interesting threads.
The faster you organize the information the better. If not, later the forum will grow so much that will be very hard to watch + the job to move the thousands of topics..
TheChampJT is right..
I think the real issue is that most users don't realize the amount of time it takes just to keep the forum as organized as it is. Splitting the hacking & development forum would require us to watch 7 threads instead of one, which honestly is a pretty full job in and of itself at this point.
Joel does a good job of drawing attention to how confusing it will be for users wanting to post new information. I know it's really frustrating to certain users to have to read through a couple pages of threads to find the one they're looking for, but it really is the simplest solution.
I think one issues that has been side stepped is that there really aren't a lot of developers asking us to split this stuff up. It's easy enough, and simple enough for them to use, especially after all the great work done by the Q & A team to clean it up. I find it pretty easy to find what i'm looking for in the thread now.
I think the thing that would help more than anything to simplify things for users would be for all threads to adopt the proper naming of their threads. Then it would be easy to see what threads are themes, what are apps, what are games. Unfortunately, the application of proper naming is very inconsistent.
Ultimately I feel that splitting the forums would cause more confusion, more frustration, and more work, so at this point I think it best to leave things as they are until we come up with a better solution.
Going to keep my post very short, the way XDA is split up is to help users to which commonly end up posting in the wrong sections as it is, the more sections we have the more confusion of posters, then we have the mods who have a hard enough time as it is trying to sift out the "wrong posters" so what was my point again? Lets keep things simple so simple peeps don't post in the wrong sections and the mods don't get over worked for there voluntary position
Like all of us I'm having a hard time flipping arround 1000+ pages of various threads in Applications / ROMs / Customization ... All are for the new comer WM 6.5
Why not CREATE A SECTION just for WM 6.5 ? this will make it extremely easy for WM 6.5 fans to find what they are looking for.
it Should include the following:
1. Themes
2. Titanium Home Screen Plugins
3. Fixes & Tips/Tricks
4. New CE Builds
5. etc
The aim is to provide us XDA-Devs, with a unified section covering all aspects of the New WM 6.5, especially, that I guess after a period of 6 to 12 months, WM 6.5 will be dominating the new threads in XDA-Devs, But yet, for WM 6.1 users, we don't want everything regarding the two OS get mixed in the same location.
The Sooner the better, and easier for Admins too.
Can we Acheive that XDA-Devs Team?
regards;
Will
Word...
Again.. Word...
Where is the Poll?
umm.. i think this is it...
just nod or something..
*Nods agreeingly*
No harm in a few more sections, also not many customizations work for 6.5
Yes please !!!
wm6.5 sections please!
Look at this Section: http://forum.xda-developers.com/forumdisplay.php?f=260
There are many things for 6.5.
Terrorhuhn said:
Look at this Section: http://forum.xda-developers.com/forumdisplay.php?f=260
There are many things for 6.5.
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You are right but I think the point was to catalogue HD/WVGA supported apps, tweak etc without trawling this section.
You could just search but it can be a trudge when you don't know exactly what you are searching for.
all the wm6.5 plugins i'm using, were found at the devs forum..
dgen said:
all the wm6.5 plugins i'm using, were found at the devs forum..
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Same here...
I have no problem with trawling the forums hence the fact that I have only posted 12 (now 13) times in over 3 years as reading usually gives you the answers you need.
But, not everyone is inclined to spend hours sorting the wheat from the chaff.
Where manageable... I see nothing wrong with xda giving people new to WM (and for a lot of people, their HD is their first exploration) information tailored to their device.
When I first got my wallaby, the site was much (much) smaller; I would imagine that if you had just bought an HD and none of your mates have one, coming to xda for the first time could be overwhelming.
You can read all the tutorials but anyone who works in a development environment knows that written words will usually leave some ambiguity.
Most of the 6.5 apps were not developed by devs using a WVGA device so running threads specifically under blackstone would allow HD users who do know the apps to focus on helping others with issues specific to the HD.
Hopefully this would improve their overall knowledge and confidence in their device and who knows, they may be the people that will develop the apps for WM7 on the HD...
I think it is inevitable anyway considering how bloated a lot of general threads are getting with the ever increasing xda population (not that this is a bad thing - wouldn't want this to become an elitist Linux style forum).
Instead of creating new forums all you have to do is put 'WM6.5' or 'WM6.1' in title of each thread.
Fallen Spartan said:
Instead of creating new forums all you have to do is put 'WM6.5' or 'WM6.1' in title of each thread.
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Hi Fallen Spartan
+ screen resolution would be good.
I am assuming that because Will has posted this under a blackstone sub-category that he feels targeting information, help and support specifically to blackstone users would bring benefit as most apps posted under dev&hacking are already labelled up where they will only work on a specific OS.
Perhaps my point is out of place with the feelings of others but it is not finding apps that is difficult. The difficulty (and I do believe it is common place) is as I illuded to in my previous post.
When you do ask a question specific to running an app on the HD, it can either be overlooked due to the volume of questions other members are asking or the response is not by someone who has the device (including the developer) so help, although willingly given, can often be a dead end.
I do not have a solution for this but I am hoping you may think about how it can be easier for people to help people (I am as keen to help as be helped).
A user could always open a thread under themes and apps asking the question relating to a general app for specific help on the HD
I know I would feel a little uncomfortable doing this as naturally it feels the question should fall somehow into a WVGA/HD sub-category under the original app thread. It could mean that I caused other users to be unsure where to ask or look for help.
PS:
My comments are not intended to be taken as critical - This is a great site!
As with any user experience, the users change as do their expectaions (most users I see on the blackstone forum have a join date +2009 which is truly fantastic) and it is prudent to consider this going forward.
I won't comment anymore as I don't want to appear to be taking this down the route of a philosophical debate and you have elegantly answered Will's original post.
Mark.
Sounds like a great idea
Does this help tho
Fallen Spartan said:
Instead of creating new forums all you have to do is put 'WM6.5' or 'WM6.1' in title of each thread.
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Yes this is a good idea, but when you search for "WM6.5" you get "Sorry - no matches. Please try some different terms. " because (i'm guessing from trail and error) that the word is too short or sumthing.
I have been looking for a nice theme for my new WM6.5 rom and am spending hours trawling thro pages of forums.
I'd love to see a WM6.5 forum under the blackstone forum.
My Main Concern was/is this:
When you use search feature, it gives you several threads for the same VALUE, but there are lots of file VERSIONS and/or UPDATES.
So, Users will not be able to target the most up to date File/Cab/Tweak, which sometimes causes instability with new Manilla or something like that, but if we have coherent SECTION, updates will be included to facilitate the problem solving without compromising device stability.
I mean it will be a UNIFIED thread, with UPDATES Content, to reduce the hassle, and mistakes.
Take for example those most-wanted:
1. BG for all Tabs? --- there is a 100 versions over XDA-Devs, which is NEWEST?
2. Old Start Menu --- SAME
3. Colored TASKBAR --- SAME
4. Manilla Analog Clock --- m2.0 or m2.1
5. TSK Files
6. etc.
Plus, I don't want to spend a whole day searching for a cab, for the above mentioned or else, and get screwed because I used a wrong version, and need to Hard Reset.
Not all users are professionals as others, there is a various skills in here, from noobs, to profs.
Everything seems so intricate and difficult here, why do we fight over opinions all the time?
Please lets be atleast professional and friendly, as we have always been before.
Again, WM phones are top notch phones now, not like 3 years back, when HTC used to be High Tech Computers Co. (Think Himalaya/Wallabay)
Regards;
Will
Hi Mods,
Am I the only one who find "Development and Hacking" hard to browse?
Is it perhaps possible to create sub sections in this thread? Like all those
WM 6.5 and later Wm 7.x topics? Only of interest if you use those OSes.
Perhaps also sections for Today Plugins by type: manilla etc etc.
Just my two cents.
Cheers
I would make subforums for: Games, Apps, UIs etc. Most of the apps for 6.1 are compatible with 6.5 and vice versa, so imo there's no need for making such sections
Kamill said:
I would make subforums for: Games, Apps, UIs etc. Most of the apps for 6.1 are compatible with 6.5 and vice versa, so imo there's no need for making such sections
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agreed, especially skins...they sometimes crowd the first page and hide the interesting stuff back a dozen pages.
but it would also be benificial if you could toggle on or off certain topics at the top of the board
This was mentioned on the blackstone forum - I commented there that it would be good to see sub-categories for resolutions so questions specific to WVGA (for example) would more likely be found by another WVGA user and hopefully answered (titanium apps are a good example of this).
There is a lot of us on here these days with a lot of different models which is what makes this community so great but some more granularity would surely assist us in looking for help and where possible, help others.
I voted yes but "no" and "fine as it is" are the same answer are they not????
Yep you are very right My fault. Did it a bit too quick. But cannot change it anymore.
Yeah I agree with the Games/Skins/Apps/Drivers.../Ideas/ etc.. Its hard to find what you need when the good stuff can be pushed back 4 or 5+ pages by skins/themes or stuff you already have.
by reolution..
unowho said:
This was mentioned on the blackstone forum - I commented there that it would be good to see sub-categories for resolutions so questions specific to WVGA (for example) would more likely be found by another WVGA user and hopefully answered (titanium apps are a good example of this).
There is a lot of us on here these days with a lot of different models which is what makes this community so great but some more granularity would surely assist us in looking for help and where possible, help others.
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I agree...
the best way would be..
1.WVGA
2.VGA
3.QVGA
4. all resolutions..
5. and so on....
i think games and apps and wat not might get muddled...
resolutions is the way to go
Thread Moved to : About xda-developers.com Forum
please yes. that section is an absolute mess. organizing by resolution or better yet, type of software would be fantastic.
"No" and "Fine as it is" is the same answer
And I also say "no" , because it's a development Forum - and it's a need to think outside the box. If we would have sections for Apps, Games or for Systems like 6.5 or Resolutions - some people never would look into and would know, which new Technologies or Ideas are available.
And for Developers (they are used to a search function) there are ideas at all the most important issue.
And have a look on other sides, where you see the "high gloss brochures" - which shows the free apps for WinMo with categories - in manner of AppStore from Apple - at the end you will find a link to xda-devs, to download or know more about the Apps
It's logical, that this poll will have as result, that there should be sub-categories for xda-devs - it's good for downloaders.
But for developers: They would oversee new ideas on other plattforms, the would get a tunnel vision on their own system.
And not so much ideas... would result in fewer Apps & Dwnloads. And so the people would have a nice overview (perhaps), but not so much cool ideas at all.
There are more than enough sides, which categorizes the Developers Apps here. But please leave us our "development environment" here - to see, with which people we could work together, to provide new Apps& Ideas... for everybody of us. What's up, if we would only develop for one resolution? And then we have to switch everything if we make multi-res? Senseless additional work for Developers... and especially too much work for the Mods.
It's better to work with Prefixes like "[App]" that makes a better overview. And Recommendations in the Sections of each device here.
And also to have as Downloader a possibility to think outside the box.
Micha
I have to disagree with you on at least one point.
This is from our home page...
But as our site grew we realised that lots of ordinary users were also suffering from a lack of support. They started using the xda-developers forum to communicate and before long the forum was as much a user forum as it was a developer forum.
The poll is certainly backing this up.
Now 281 reads but only 55 votes. Seems that a lot of visitors don't care.
@mods, can you please make it a sticky in Development and Hacking until the end of the poll?
Cheers
Friends,
Rumour has it that Android 2.0+ will not be released for General Mobile DSTL1. If you are an owner of a DSTL1 or Sciphone N21, this means your device will not benefit from the upcoming version of Android.
However there are many people who work individually for incredible ROMs to make these devices better, like AmonRa, Andferno, Crzyruski etc. These people will need the source codes for the new ROMs so that they can continue developing.
Please take a minute and help them by posting your wish at the General Mobile dot com's contact page.
Remember; Android is a very extendable OS and can be made better by continued efforts.
Thanks and peace.
Maybe my question sounds stupid but you should consider to create subforums where the name of subforum would be for example MildWild and only that user would be able to create threads since he is one of those who creates and supports more than 1 ROM development line.. im sure there are more developers like this who should have this kind of support... Thanks for reading this far
While this idea may work small scale with a handful of users & developers, scale that up to XDA size and its unworkable. Creating, administering & moderating a forum for just one developer would not work.
Good idea in concept, but sadly it wouldn't work here.