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I notice the phone start lagging when there are less than 100Meg of available RAM on both 2.1 or 2.2 SGS.
Questions....
1. How do i make sure there will always be min 130 available when not in use?
I'm currently using Froyo Task Manager, ATK and SystemPanel together to make that happen manually. A better suggestion or use of them will be appreciated.
I also tried MemoryPlus and Taskkiller (The red android logo)
2. There are so many background service running some of them start with com.samsung.... (what are these?) do we need them?
3. Why some Apps always run without us telling them to run, or ask us to give them to permission to run on background at will?
ATK
In ATK in settings you have auto kill level, which is disabled on default.
jakaka said:
In ATK in settings you have auto kill level, which is disabled on default.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I'm using JPC, ATK autokill will not able to kill at a system level like SystemPanel, so after a day of active use, the memory will still continue to reduce as some of the background service start consuming more and more memory or run more background process. E.g. Touchwiz from 17 Meg to 25 Meg.
So at the start with ATK, i will have 130Meg, after a day of active use i left with 80Meg. With Apps killed.
I use autokiller set to aggressive. memory left 152mb
ivanchin99 said:
I use autokiller set to aggressive. memory left 152mb
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Cool, does that remain for few days? How often do you restart your phone?
free memory is bad memory!
why don't let android do it's job?! this ist linux with a clever memory management, not windows 95!!! deinstall all auto task killer android is handling the memory very well. it uses all it can get and if it's not enough it kills old uses apps from it. why have free memory, there is absolutely no reson for that! ram is fast, let the often used apps be there not on slow sd or nand!
Mykron said:
free memory is bad memory!
why don't let android do it's job?! this ist linux with a clever memory management, not windows 95!!! deinstall all auto task killer android is handling the memory very well. it uses all it can get and if it's not enough it kills old uses apps from it. why have free memory, there is absolutely no reson for that! ram is fast, let the often used apps be there not on slow sd or nand!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
QFT!
What is the point of having memory if it is constantly empty?
Think about it this way...If you had five friends at your house and you have five chairs, do you make 2 or 3 of your friends stand so there is always empty space or do you let everyone sit down and worry about something worthwhile?
Finguz said:
QFT!
What is the point of having memory if it is constantly empty?
Think about it this way...If you had five friends at your house and you have five chairs, do you make 2 or 3 of your friends stand so there is always empty space or do you let everyone sit down and worry about something worthwhile?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
True, upto a certain point... I don't think you need to have at least 100 or 150 mb free but it DOES seem to help to not let it get down to like 30mb...
For me:
-JM7
-animations off
-voodoo lag fix
-minfree manager set to preset agressive.
minfree manager customizes the android memory management system.
I love it this way, No lags when starting the Phone (DIALER) or anything else. The dialer annoys me the must, this must be lag free, if i want to dial i want to dial right away.
Btw, I think you have made some wrong assumptions about the Android memory management system, as mentioned, unused ram is wasted ram.
dagrim1 said:
True, upto a certain point... I don't think you need to have at least 100 or 150 mb free but it DOES seem to help to not let it get down to like 30mb...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Agreed but I have never seen my Galaxy with free memory that low and I don't use a task killer. Of course I don't often have more than 3 or 4 apps running at the same time
This is not about letting ram do nothing.you surely don't wasn't your ram get used up by programs you don't want while you had no hand in this.All those services running I don't want.badly written programs that are hanging out in memory instead of closing.at least in symbian an app closed when you exited.
Why would you have 100MB free ? Do you have any application that needs 100MB to run ?! The android system already has enough memory to run so even if you could have 200MB of free memory you phone wouldn't run any faster you would just be able to lauch around 20 apps at the same time.
Read this:
http://geekfor.me/faq/you-shouldnt-be-using-a-task-killer-with-android/
Linux however isn’t generally affected by this. While I admit that I don’t know the architecture and reason for this… linux will run the same regardless of if you have 20mb free memory or 200mb.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Finguz said:
Agreed but I have never seen my Galaxy with free memory that low and I don't use a task killer. Of course I don't often have more than 3 or 4 apps running at the same time
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Dunno, I just noticed that one time my phone was VERY sluggish and memory free was around 20mb or so. Cleaning it up did seem to help (unless one of the programs killed was causing the lag of course).
Ah well... Whatever people choose right?
You guys can argue all you want that free RAM is a waste of RAM....
But it is a fact that the SGS runs much slower when the free RAM is low. This is the experience of all the SGS'es I have tried and my own as well. At least this is the case when running 2.1. I have not tested anyone with 2.2 yet.
It s starts to lag when memory is below 40 mb. So when it s low and you start an application it starts to lag. I set it to 50-55-60 and got hardly any lag. No need to keep so much free ram
Sent from my GT-I9000 using XDA App
matty___ said:
It s starts to lag when memory is below 40 mb. So when it s low and you start an application it starts to lag. I set it to 50-55-60 and got hardly any lag. No need to keep so much free ram
Sent from my GT-I9000 using XDA App
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Which ROM are you using? as the low memory killer level for background apps is set at 40M which means you should have 40M free all the time or it will start killing background apps. This is also why task killers are useless, free ram is wasted ram for android.
I never had the experience that more free RAM is faster, perhaps with the stock rom but JC and upwards are all good by default. Animations off + Oneclick lagfix (or another) and the phone stays totally lag free.
Being an android user for 1,5 years now i'm very confident Taskkillers are useless except when an app is stuck. I've had periods where I used them allot but the phone only gets slower as the killed apps have to be loaded into the memory again.
Finguz said:
QFT!
What is the point of having memory if it is constantly empty?
Think about it this way...If you had five friends at your house and you have five chairs, do you make 2 or 3 of your friends stand so there is always empty space or do you let everyone sit down and worry about something worthwhile?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Provided you are not expecting anymore friends. The problem happens if all your 5 friends are happily seated and along comes 2 more friends a-visiting. So you have to now move 2 inactive (for want of a better word) friends out of the seats so that you can accommodate the 2 new ones. This takes time. So why not move these friends out as soon as they become inactive so that the space is readily available when someone comes calling?
Try to have a read about garbage collector before argueing about free memory.
The more you try to have a large amount of memory, the more you will need major GC (and during major GC all activity is frozen).
If you let the system manage memory, it does minor GC as needed when it reaches min memory waterline (seems to be 50Mo on SGS).
Let the system do its job.
Get rid of task killer.
Mykron said:
free memory is bad memory!
why don't let android do it's job?! this ist linux with a clever memory management, not windows 95!!! deinstall all auto task killer android is handling the memory very well. it uses all it can get and if it's not enough it kills old uses apps from it. why have free memory, there is absolutely no reason for that! ram is fast, let the often used apps be there not on slow sd or nand!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I completely disagree. OK, it is better to use memory, but the android memory management is extremely inefficient since it does not know which foreground and background processes are important to the user and which are not, even though it tries to figure that out. Since the Galaxy S does not allow the system to use the full 512MB of memory, this can be a critical factor. And the Galaxy S definitely lags massively when less then 70 or so MB of free RAM is available this is definitely a fact.
The biggest problem is that you cannot manually close apps and only have multitasking access to the last 6 apps used. If you use 7 apps simultaneously, the 1st app still consumes memory but you cannot even switch back to it. And there are so many useless background processes, starting up over and over again and consuming hundreds of MB memory if they are not killed in regular fashion.
Who needs gesture search, amazon mp3, layar, and all the samsung crap running in the background all the time. If you only have 10 such applications and each of them only consumes 15MB of ram, 150MB are wasted for nothing.
Every second market application registers itself as autostart on every boot, so to use a autostart manager is also mandatory.
Since everybody can easily develop for Android the application quality and resource efficiency is not always perfect. So in my opinion Android needs a task manager, this is why even Samsung integrates such a application.
Using a well configured ATK (set to ignore system applications, widgets and apps frequently used for multitasking and killing every else on screen off) and autokiller (strict setting) in addition to Autostart Manager (had to remove 40!!! useless apps from automatic startup) and lagfix, the SGS runs perfectly smooth.
I just installes arhd 2.1 rom and evrrything works fine.
I got most things installed.i need like twitter, fb, adv. task killer,
even auto startup killer, titanium, juice, setcpu and some more.
I disabled all notifications.
I prevent all startup apps i didnt want (all but 2,or 3)
I set sync to off. I checked all app settings twice.
Still there.are mostly like all apps running after i start my phone
And if i kill them it takes a while but they come back...
How to fix that ? Beside all my programms things like internet, mail, messages are also on.
My ram is down to like 210mb, when i kill its back to 480.
Thanks guys!
Android is nothing like windows.
Killing apps & processes to save memory is bad for your phone. Android handles its memory very well, and you killing apps interferes with that.
Apps are loaded into the RAM, for your convenience, if Android runs low on memory, it will decide what apps to kill.
I'm sure there is a guide that explains this.
andyharney said:
Android is nothing like windows.
Killing apps & processes to save memory is bad for your phone. Android handles its memory very well, and you killing apps interferes with that.
Apps are loaded into the RAM, for your convenience, if Android runs low on memory, it will decide what apps to kill.
I'm sure there is a guide that explains this.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
So (Auto)-Taskkillers are Bull**** ?
Also Startup Prevention ? Everything like that ?
Or anything "good" ? I guess SetCpu is something useful which comes
into that area.
If someone has a guide, give me a "call"
Task killers should only be used to kill rogue apps, apps that are poorly coded. They shouldn't be used to manage your memory.
SetCPU is kinda different, all it does is allow you to alter the speed of your CPU.
mydanny said:
So (Auto)-Taskkillers are Bull**** ?
Also Startup Prevention ? Everything like that ?
Or anything "good" ? I guess SetCpu is something useful which comes
into that area.
If someone has a guide, give me a "call"
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I find it very difficult to understand people who are using taskillers in their phone. The whole point, i guess, is to save some battery? But do you know that taskillers run constantly and consume even more battery? And you might end up messing up with your system and experiencing lags/problems.
The memory management of android system is different than what we are used to. You should let android manage the memory. If you still want to quit some of the apps which you think are using up your memory, you can do it manually via "manage applications" in applications.
I m also using ARHD. And i don't use any taskillers/ startup managers. I never experienced lags when playing gameloft games (i tell you they require lots of memory) or angry birds. I have my wifi-on, sync on all the time.
SetCpu is used to manage the cpu speed of your DHD. This can be used to create profiles (or comes already with some profiles like ondemand etc.) and the program itself understands the need for memory and adjusts your cpu speed according to that. It might give you some more bat. life.
Of course what kind of programs we want to use in our DHD is upto us. And people will have a divided opinion on whether to use taskillers or not. But if you ask me (and my almost 3 years of android experience), you are better off without any taskillers.
sphuyal said:
I find it very difficult to understand people who are using taskillers in their phone. The whole point, i guess, is to save some battery? But do you know that taskillers run constantly and consume even more battery? And you might end up messing up with your system and experiencing lags/problems.
The memory management of android system is different than what we are used to. You should let android manage the memory. If you still want to quit some of the apps which you think are using up your memory, you can do it manually via "manage applications" in applications.
I m also using ARHD. And i don't use any taskillers/ startup managers. I never experienced lags when playing gameloft games (i tell you they require lots of memory) or angry birds. I have my wifi-on, sync on all the time.
SetCpu is used to manage the cpu speed of your DHD. This can be used to create profiles (or comes already with some profiles like ondemand etc.) and the program itself understands the need for memory and adjusts your cpu speed according to that. It might give you some more bat. life.
Of course what kind of programs we want to use in our DHD is upto us. And people will have a divided opinion on whether to use taskillers or not. But if you ask me (and my almost 3 years of android experience), you are better off without any taskillers.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Word. Sounds convincing.
I will remove the **** from my phone - Task Killer and Startup Manager.
You also dislike Juice Defender ? I heard only positive things about battery.
Or is this 100% crap, too ?
mydanny said:
Word. Sounds convincing.
I will remove the **** from my phone - Task Killer and Startup Manager.
You also dislike Juice Defender ? I heard only positive things about battery.
Or is this 100% crap, too ?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I have never used Juice Defender but it is a OK app (it uses some bat. though). All i use i "currentwidget" to monitor what causes battery drain (if any). If i were you, i would see how the DHD goes along with/without juice defender for 48 hours. And then evaluate if i really need juice defender.
Killing apps is liking turning your car engine off on every street you go down. It's better to keep the engine running, it uses less petrol.
Same with memory management on Android, if you keep killing, it has to startup the app again each time you use it which actually uses more battery.
The only thing I use is setCPU on a smartass governor with a profile for when the screen goes off to reduce CPU usage to 450mhz. Mine idle's at 1-3ma.
What a bunch of rubbish. Task killers are an excellent easy to keep your phone running fast and smooth. They also save your battery by not letting tasks run in the background and eat battery unnecessarily.
I hope that wasn't too obvious a troll ...
Task killers suck. They are the Android equivalent of Windows registry cleaners. Sold to you to speed up your system but really they break it.
Sent from my super slick Android device.
dr.m0x said:
What a bunch of rubbish. Task killers are an excellent easy to keep your phone running fast and smooth. They also save your battery by not letting tasks run in the background and eat battery unnecessarily.
I hope that wasn't too obvious a troll ...
Task killers suck. They are the Android equivalent of Windows registry cleaners. Sold to you to speed up your system but really they break it.
Sent from my super slick Android device.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You had me for a minute there
Can anyone explain the amount of RAM that this phone is suppose to have?
The specs for the phone lists 768 MB. However, the total memory that comes up is 617940 kB.
Thanks.
Bull Shot said:
Can anyone explain the amount of RAM that this phone is suppose to have?
The specs for the phone lists 768 MB. However, the total memory that comes up is 617940 kB.
Thanks.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
where are you finding this number? i am at 758 MB. since i have a bunch of apps installed, that would seem about right.
How are you guys getting so much free ram? When I check on Task Killer, whenever I kill all the apps I'm not using it usually shows 358 mb ... and programs I'm not using automatically keep running (i.e Maps).
hmm maybe im not checking the right place? i'm getting my 758 mb number from settings--SD and phone storage. the internal phone storage tells me 758mb.
on an unrelated note though, you shouldn't use task killers. they are considered by most to be more of a drain on your battery life as android is already setup to manage closing unused apps on its own.
Many people use the term "memory" to mean system memory as well as storage. I try to avoid calling system storage as "memory" and tend to use "storage" instead, or refer to the type of storage.
Total ram is around 768mb. Part of it is reserved (not sure why, possibly for filesystem caching) so around 603mb is available. For this platform that is a healthy chunk of RAM to work with. Even with my hefty usage I have ~126mb free.
Internal storage is something like 2gb, with it partially consumed by the Android install as well as NAND configuration adjustments for reliability which cause some of the storage space to be consumed through hardware (there's an excellent explanation of this somewhere, don't have a link handy), resulting in about 1.1gb being available. I have 103 apps installed, 523.5mb of the internal storage used, with 638.8mb available.
There was an excellent tool posted on xda (http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=1066060) called Android Optimizer that gives a lot of good information about memory, storage, cpu usage, etc. I'd recommend checking it out. It's not available on the market and it is a little buggy so use it with a bit of caution if you choose to use any of the optimization functions.
cool. thanks for the explanation nimdae!
There have been so, so, so many posts on this topic that I will not rehash them all here. Instead, I will ask a simple question: For what do you use all that free RAM?
Ask yourself that question, and be serious about it. I think you will find yourself uninstalling your task managers and memory optimizers before long.
Edit: to avoid unnecessary discussion, Watchdog is in fact neither of those, and I would highly recommend it as the only memory app you will ever need.
Edit 2: the total RAM displayed is the RAM that is actually available to be used by anything the user may want to run. As a poster earlier said, the system reserves a certain amount of RAM for its own use to keep important processes moving along. The reserved RAM is not available, and so doesn't appear in total RAM. Unless you want to uninstall the OS. Then you could have access to all 768 MBs.
I would like to reiterate why you should not use automatic task killers.
As of, I believe, Android 2.0, the garbage collection and memory management was significantly improved. However, this was not a new system in Android, it always existed.
How it works:
If you haven't noticed with Android, when you leave an app, it doesn't close it unless the app specifically does something to end the process. This is by design. Android allows the app to remain in memory. Frequently used apps will load faster with this design. A "task" that is not killed and is in the background ONLY consumes memory, it does not "run" (in Linux terms, the process is actually in a "stopped" state so the task can't do anything anyway). Only a "service" can run in the background. Most apps that have long running services have lightweight services.
If an application loads that requires more memory than is available, Android will examine backgrounded tasks for candidates to be killed to free up memory. This makes it so as many tasks as possible can remain in memory for better performance. In understanding this, you should know that if you have a large amount of memory, and memory usage is high, this is a GOOD THING. With the amount of memory in the I2, there is a lot of breathing space for this.
There is one other case where a backgrounded task will be killed: if it has been in the background for a certain period of time without being brought forward. Killing a task to free up memory to load another task can actually be a little cpu expensive (but not THAT much) so this can make it slightly easier.
Please note that backgrounded tasks WILL NOT contribute to battery drain. Only tasks at the front and services will. Killing your backgrounded calculator will do nothing for you other than free that small amount of memory it uses. Used memory does not contribute to extra battery drain as DRAM refreshes happen on ALL cells anyway.
Background services can also be made candidates for being killed. If an app needs more memory than can be made available by killing backgrounded tasks, then services become targets to be killed as well.
Automatic task killers cause a couple of problems. A less major problem is you lose that one benefit you get by keeping tasks in the background: performance. I don't just mean how fast it loads. If it can bring a backgrounded task to the front from memory rather than load from storage, you remove extra processing to load the app, including storage access, that contribute to higher battery drain. The other problem is a poorly configured task killer can break things like notifications.
Managing your services is always a good idea. Having a lot of services running means background processes that are capable of contributing to battery drain. Additionally, there are apps with misbehaving services (services that consume resources or use features they shouldn't). While I'm against automatic task killers, using something to monitor and manage services is a good idea. Just always keep in mind the implications for killing a service: it may affect a feature to an app that you would rather not impact.
Excellent explanation nimdae! Task killers are the devil.
On another note, my posts are getting too long...
nimdae said:
On another note, my posts are getting too long...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Everything is longer in Texas.
xgunther said:
Everything is longer in Texas.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
That's what s...no, that's too easy.
Move along, nothing to see.
Before I read this I was like a task Nazi. I killed my tasks often, but now I think I will just let them be. Nice write up BTW. Very informative.
Sent from my ADR6350 using XDA App
TB13 said:
Before I read this I was like a task Nazi. I killed my tasks often, but now I think I will just let them be. Nice write up BTW. Very informative.
Sent from my ADR6350 using XDA App
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Remember: I'm not saying don't manage things. Poorly behaving services are the #1 cause of high battery drain (at least on non-LTE devices), and this will be even more problematic when you overclock.
xgunther said:
Excellent explanation nimdae! Task killers are the devil.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I tried not using them and I get better battery life with them...I use it maybe 3 times a day after heavy multi tasking. It's to each their own..but I see results for it..like 5 extra hours.
Sent from my ADR6350 using XDA Premium App
knipp21 said:
I tried not using them and I get better battery life with them...I use it maybe 3 times a day after heavy multi tasking. It's to each their own..but I see results for it..like 5 extra hours.
Sent from my ADR6350 using XDA Premium App
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
If you get that much extra, you have a misbehaving app. Better to get the app developer to fix it or find an alternative.
nimdae said:
If you get that much extra, you have a misbehaving app. Better to get the app developer to fix it or find an alternative.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
True, I don't need to use it often though lol
Sent from my ADR6350 using XDA Premium App
I'm in Texas as well.
sent from a phone without root.
I use a task killer only to manually kill an app that freezes or something. Its easier than going to manage applications. I have the autokill disabled.
Sent from my ADR6350 using XDA Premium App
AngelsPunishment said:
I use a task killer only to manually kill an app that freezes or something. Its easier than going to manage applications. I have the autokill disabled.
Sent from my ADR6350 using XDA Premium App
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
CyanogenMod (maybe other ROMs) have a feature to kill a frozen app by holding the back button (long press, whatever). However, this can also be an annoyance on systems where for unknown reasons it registers a long press on a tap (my eris did this a lot).
Hey everyone I just got my Galaxy Nexus from Bell and it isn nothing short of amazing. Screen is amazing compared to my milestone which is basically the international version of the Droid. So far, I have experienced lag only after loading up approximately 10-15 apps which I never do on a daily basis, so lag isn't an issue with this phone. Now, I do have a few issues.
1.) The wifi keeps disconnecting while I try to download the files for shadowgun
2.) The speakers are REALLY quiet.
3.) When I use advanced task killer the ram available is always under 300mb even if i kill all apps (is it optimized for ICS?)
4.) The multi touch barely works?? (Download a multitouch tester app... when you have one finger on the left side, the bottom right side wont detect your other finger?? Noticable in shadowgun, if you are moving, you can't look around via the bottom left of the screen...
Sent from my Galaxy Nexus using XDA App
mohitrocks said:
Hey everyone I just got my Galaxy Nexus from Bell and it isn nothing short of amazing. Screen is amazing compared to my milestone which is basically the international version of the Droid. So far, I have experienced lag only after loading up approximately 10-15 apps which I never do on a daily basis, so lag isn't an issue with this phone. Now, I do have a few issues.
1.) The wifi keeps disconnecting while I try to download the files for shadowgun
2.) The speakers are REALLY quiet.
3.) When I use advanced task killer the ram available is always under 300mb even if i kill all apps (is it optimized for ICS?)
4.) The multi touch barely works?? (Download a multitouch tester app... when you have one finger on the left side, the bottom right side wont detect your other finger??
Sent from my Galaxy Nexus using XDA App
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
1) Samsung phones tend not to have as good wifi reception as others. See if you can move closer to the router.
2) You can use an app like Volume+ to boost it a bit.
3) The available RAM should be about 600+ MB. The app is probably not optimised for ICS. Anyway there really should be no reason to clear apps from RAM unless it is actively using CPU.
4) Multitouch is fine for me using "Multitouch Test" app from the market.
Sent from my Galaxy Nexus using XDA App
mohitrocks said:
3.) When I use advanced task killer the ram available is always under 300mb even if i kill all apps (is it optimized for ICS?)
Sent from my Galaxy Nexus using XDA App
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
People worry too much about free RAM. As a professional programmer (though not Android), power user, and hacker of almost any device or computer I use, I can tell you that free RAM is wasted RAM. Does the device work well for you? Unless you have a specific reason to believe that lack of available memory is affecting your experience, you shouldn't worry about it.
I expect any device I use (computer, phone, tablet, server, anything) to be making as much use of the RAM available to it as possible. The operating system should be caching as much as it can in memory to increase performance and enhance your user experience. Caching will normally show up as unavailable RAM, but any decent operating system (even Windows, haha) will dump cache and make it available for applications as needed.
Please don't take this the wrong way... I only ever comment on such things try to be informative. I honestly wouldn't worry about it, unless you're experiencing a problem directly related to available memory, such as an app (or worse, the OS!) leaking memory and causing lags or the inability to open new apps, etc.
There's also the whole thing about how you shouldn't even be using a task killer... but there are already enough threads on XDA about that topic, so I won't get into that here
And finally I will say... I'm jealous! I haven't pre-ordered, because I want to bargin with Bell a bit, but I'll be heading to Bell tomorrow and I hope they have a Galaxy Nexus in stock!
lol @ wanting to have free RAM
that was very informative!. I bought mine from virgin in Toronto Eaton Centre,with $50 off because I told him I don't want the case.(They give free case on the pre-launched date,don't know about tomorrow tho.)gl with your bargin!
BootsSiR said:
lol @ wanting to have free RAM
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Haha seriously.
Uninstall that task killer. Jesus do people not learn?
From everything I have read it seems that task killers only really interfere with Androids OS. I've never used one and the system seems to run fine =]
mohitrocks said:
Hey everyone I just got my Galaxy Nexus from Bell and it isn nothing short of amazing. Screen is amazing compared to my milestone which is basically the international version of the Droid.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Glad to see I am not the only one coming from a Milestone, haha. Leaps and bounds are the words that come to mind.
martonikaj said:
Haha seriously.
Uninstall that task killer. Jesus do people not learn?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Maybe he wants to have free RAM to run something else that consumes a lot of RAM? Did you ever think of that?
It's like making fun of someone who is trying to make money and asking them "why do you want money? You can't eat it! LOL..."
Well, no duh. The point of making money is to exchange it for things you want...
Chirality said:
Maybe he wants to have free RAM to run something else that consumes a lot of RAM? Did you ever think of that?
It's like making fun of someone who is trying to make money and asking them "why do you want money? You can't eat it! LOL..."
Well, no duh. The point of making money is to exchange it for things you want...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You also don't understand then I suppose. If he wants free RAM to run something else, that foreground app will take the RAM away from anything else in the background that is unnecessary (obviously the foreground app is more important). But this isn't something he has to do (or think about doing). The process is not like: working with app X, then deallocating memory manually, then starting app Y. Rather, it's using app X, then starting app Y and if Y needs memory that X is using, X disappears automatically and Y continues to run with its necessary resources.
As stated above, free RAM is wasted RAM. His (and many other's) quest to have as much free RAM as possible is a terrible goal to have that overall hurts the user experience. Freeing RAM for the sake of looking at a screen that tells you a certain number (omg higher # is better!!!!) isn't the proper way to be managing your device.
Anyways, this isn't a task killer thread. Several other topics were raised by OP.
martonikaj said:
You also don't understand then I suppose. If he wants free RAM to run something else, that foreground app will take the RAM away from anything else in the background that is unnecessary (obviously the foreground app is more important). But this isn't something he has to do (or think about doing). The process is not like: working with app X, then deallocating memory manually, then starting app Y. Rather, it's using app X, then starting app Y and if Y needs memory that X is using, X disappears automatically and Y continues to run with its necessary resources.
As stated above, free RAM is wasted RAM. His (and many other's) quest to have as much free RAM as possible is a terrible goal to have that overall hurts the user experience. Freeing RAM for the sake of looking at a screen that tells you a certain number (omg higher # is better!!!!) isn't the proper way to be managing your device.
Anyways, this isn't a task killer thread. Several other topics were raised by OP.
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Ugh...I guess I'll have to keep using the analogy to get through to you...
So you ask the guy why he wants to make money, because "extra money is wasted money" since you can't eat the money, right? He tells you "so I can use the money to buy other things I need." Then you ask him, "why do you need to make more money to buy other things you need? Your house is worth a lot of money, if you ever need other things, just sell your house!"
Do you understand it now? The house is some background process that's important to the user, which the user wants to keep resident in memory. The other things are other apps that the user might run. If the user keeps running other apps, eventually Android will need to reclaim memory. But the user doesn't want to lose his house (i.e. doesn't want that important background process closed)! How to make sure Android doesn't do that? Here's an idea: why not have some extra money to spend on things (i.e. free up memory by killing the non-important apps so the important one doesn't get killed)?
This...really isn't that difficult of a concept to understand. I don't get why you feel the need to bash everyone who wants to kill processes. Sure, a lot of people use task killers for stupid reasons. But you can't always assume the worst in people. How do you know that he's killing processes just to stare at the free memory graph? You don't know that. You are just assuming it. You can't rule out this legitimate use for manual process management.
Your analogy is completely flawed. The analogy of getting more money in terms of RAM is by opening the phone and putting another RAM chip in the phone, not by freeing RAM through a task killer. Freeing RAM with a killer is just shifting money around. You're not creating more RAM by killing apps, you're just moving it around.
He has a limited income in this case. He can't open his phone and put more RAM in it. If you're on a limited income and can't just "make more money" then if you want to buy a new car and don't have money, you have to sell something. The thing is, he's trying to do it manually. The phone will handle it automatically. It will choose what will be killed in order to free RAM for the front-facing process.
So you're getting the same amount of RAM either way. You have 1GB in the entire system to use. Whether you manage it manually or let the phone do it automatically, you still have 1GB of RAM. The difference is, when you do it manually, you are less efficient than letting the phone handle it. You kill things unnecessarily, kill things you shouldn't, and you spend extra time doing it.
martonikaj said:
Your analogy is completely flawed. The analogy of getting more money in terms of RAM is by opening the phone and putting another RAM chip in the phone, not by freeing RAM through a task killer. Freeing RAM with a killer is just shifting money around. You're not creating more RAM by killing apps, you're just moving it around.
He has a limited income in this case. He can't open his phone and put more RAM in it. If you're on a limited income and can't just "make more money" then if you want to buy a new car and don't have money, you have to sell something. The thing is, he's trying to do it manually. The phone will handle it automatically. It will choose what will be killed in order to free RAM for the front-facing process.
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Yes, I know it's not a perfect analogy. But how about you point out the flaw in my use case, rather than the flaw in my analogy?
The problem is exactly that the phone "will choose what will be killed in order to free RAM". What if you want to choose what gets killed and what doesn't, and not let Android decide? What if you know exactly what you want to keep resident in memory and what's unimportant and can be killed?
Just out of curiosity, wanted to know how the OP got his bell GN so fast?
Preordered mine and waiting impatiently!
Sent from my Nexus S using Tapatalk
Basically he's saying that he's not gaining anything by rearranging his RAM. The system will free up RAM from background processes if need be. Him freeing up RAM and having available RAM doing nothing is not beneficial.
Chirality said:
How about you point out the flaw in my use case, rather than the flaw in my analogy?
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You analogy is flawed because you have no idea what you're talking about. Your use case makes no sense. If the background app staying in RAM is more important than the foreground app, why are you using the foreground app? It should be in the background because its less important apparently.
Whether you manage things manually or not, if you are using the foreground app actively (ahem, its in the foreground) and it needs more RAM, then the other apps will be killed. Everything but the foreground app will be 100% wiped from RAM if it needs to. You can't tell it not to. If you want things to act differently, you'll have to write your own OS that never kills a background process sitting in RAM. And it'll suck.
What you want, and what a task killer offers, are 2 completely different things.
I'll go ahead and set this link right here just in case you want some more learnin'.
---------- Post added at 11:32 PM ---------- Previous post was at 11:27 PM ----------
gdap said:
Just out of curiosity, wanted to know how the OP got his bell GN so fast?
Preordered mine and waiting impatiently!
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Click to collapse
Are they not available in-store to pickup? Maybe he did that rather than order for delivery.
martonikaj said:
You analogy is flawed because you have no idea what you're talking about. Your use case makes no sense. If the background app staying in RAM is more important than the foreground app, why are you using the foreground app? It should be in the background because its less important apparently.
Whether you manage things manually or not, if you are using the foreground app actively (ahem, its in the foreground), then the other app will be killed. If you want things to act differently, you'll have to write your own OS that never kills a background process sitting in RAM.
What you want, and what a task killer offers, are 2 completely different things.
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Oh for crying out loud, how is this not getting through to you.
I'm not talking about killing the foreground app to make room for the background app. I'm talking about how to choose amongst the different background apps which one to kill.
Let's say that in order to make room for a foreground, Android has to kill one of two background apps. Most of the time you probably don't care which one it kills. But what if in this case the user cares very much, and want one to be killed but the other to stay in memory? Why not use a task killer to kill the unimportant one so the important one stays in memory? Is this seriously a hard concept for you to grasp?
Let's not get into personal attacks about knowledge here. I can assure you, I know more about memory management than you do, since I've seen the stuff you post around here. I've written my own garbage collectors, my own implementation of malloc/free/realloc that beats the glibc implementation in both performance and utilization. I know the pros and cons of most of the major memory allocator implementations out there, I know which allocator data structures are better at utilizing TLB cache and which ones have better worst-case performance. I know when to use compacting GC and when to use simple generational mark and sweep GC. You want to tell me I don't know what I'm talking about?
Chirality said:
Oh for crying out loud, how is this not getting through to you.
I'm not talking about killing the foreground app to make room for the background app. I'm talking about how to choose amongst the different background apps which one to kill.
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You realize that a task manager doesn't offer you this utility. Killing something manually means that it will simply re-open and be there right after you're done killing it. If it wants to run, it will run.
Let's say that in order to make room for a foreground, Android has to kill one of two background apps. Most of the time you probably don't care which one it kills. But what if in this case the user cares very much, and want one to be killed but the other to stay in memory? Why not use a task killer to kill the unimportant one so the important one stays in memory? Is this seriously a hard concept for you to grasp?
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If its that important, you won't put it in the background. Again Task Killers don't offer you this functionality actively. Killing something then quickly opening your foreground app is the most inefficient way to operate this, and still doesn't accomplish what you want with frequency. As I said above, the app will simply re-open in the background and take up the RAM again if it is supposed to be running (we're always talking about well-performing and properly formed apps). If you never want it running in the background, you need to uninstall it.
Let's not get into personal attacks about knowledge here. I can assure you, I know more about memory management than you do, since I've seen the stuff you post around here. I've written my own garbage collectors, my own implementation of malloc/free/realloc that beats the glibc implementation in both performance and utilization. I know the pros and cons of most of the major memory allocator implementations out there, I know which allocator data structures are better at utilizing TLB cache and which ones have better worst-case performance. I know when to use compacting GC and when to use simple generational mark and sweep GC. You want to tell me I don't know what I'm talking about?
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Click to collapse
No, I'm sorry sir. Most respectfully as possible, you are wrong on this topic. Really. I'm not gonna argue with you on any of these things anymore. Anyone who runs Android or has written apps or mods or ROMs will agree with me.
Your crazy-ass examples of apps running in the background that you MUST have open is not the real-world case for what we're discussing, and should never be considered a reason for anyone to ever install a task killer. People are not using them for these reasons, and they're aimlessly installing them for the wrong reason. It is 100% ruining the experience of Android to install an Auto Task Killer.
martonikaj said:
You realize that a task manager doesn't offer you this utility. Killing something manually means that it will simply re-open and be there right after you're done killing it. If it wants to run, it will run.
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Where the hell are you getting this nonsense? If it's just a normal app, how the hell is it going to run again after you kill it? Do you even understand how Android activities, intents, and services work?
martonikaj said:
If its that important, you won't put it in the background.
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Click to collapse
Do you really have no idea how Android works? Any app that is not currently visible on screen are in the background. How are you going to prevent apps from being put into the background? Is it really too much to ask in today's multitasking operating systems to have two things that you care about running at the same time, one in the foreground and one in the background?
martonikaj said:
No, I'm sorry sir. Most respectfully as possible, you are wrong on this topic. Really. I'm not gonna argue with you on any of these things anymore. Anyone who runs Android or has written apps or mods or ROMs will agree with me. Your crazy-ass examples of apps running in the background that you MUST have open is not the real-world case for what we're discussing, and should never be considered a reason for anyone to ever install a task killer.
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Click to collapse
And that, then, just shows you have no understanding of how memory management works at all. The use case I described is the one of the most usual case there is in any multiprocessing environment. You think somehow Android is special with its ability to automatically manage memory? No, it's not. It's not radically different from any modern operating system with virtual memory. The main difference is that instead of swapping memory to disk, it just kills processes. The use case I describe is a straightforward case of multitasking on a virtual memory system. It's so basic that frankly I'm amazed you don't understand it. When you are running multiple processes at once, you want to be able to choose which ones are resident in memory and which ones are swapped (or, in Android's case, killed). The best way to do it under a memory constraint is simply to kill processes you don't care about. Really, really basic stuff. And you are supposed to be a computer science student?
Maybe this is all to abstract for you. Let me describe a simple real world case. You are traveling and you rely on Google Maps to get around. You want to keep it resident in memory so that you can always instantly open up Maps. But you also run a lot of other apps during your journey. Looking up stuff on the Internet, reading restaurant reviews, checking news and weather, etc. The thing is, these apps aren't all that important. You might open them once and never need them again that day. But if you open a certain number of these apps, say, 5, then Maps will get killed since it was the least recently used. How to prevent this? Simple. Everytime you are done with one of these non-essential apps, you just kill it. It's not important to have this app be instantly accessible the next time. Or you kill them after opening 2 or 3 or them. Whatever. The point is, by manually closing these apps, you ensure Android never runs low enough on memory to kill Maps, so Maps will always be resident in memory and can be pulled up at a moment's notice, which is what you want.
Is this such a crazy-ass thing to ask for? Is this not something normal that we do on our computers all the time?
Chirality said:
You are traveling and you rely on Google Maps to get around. You want to keep it resident in memory so that you can always instantly open up Maps. But you also run a lot of other apps during your journey. Looking up stuff on the Internet, reading restaurant reviews, checking news and weather, etc. The thing is, these apps aren't all that important. You might open them once and never need them again that day. But if you open a certain number of these apps, say, 5, then Maps will get killed since it was the least recently used. How to prevent this? Simple. Everytime you are done with one of these non-essential apps, you just kill it. It's not important to have this app be instantly accessible the next time. Or you kill them after opening 2 or 3 or them. Whatever. The point is, by manually closing these apps, you ensure Android never runs low enough on memory to kill Maps, so Maps will always be resident in memory and can be pulled up at a moment's notice, which is what you want.
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Click to collapse
This is almost a non issue. Maps will save its state before it gets killed.
Also, if you're using maps throughout your journey multiple times, and these other apps are being used only once, the other apps will be killed first. But you do have a point in the case where if you open maps, use a bunch of apps, and fill up your ram to the point where android starts killing your oldest processes first(maps in this case). But as I mentioned before, maps, along with many other apps, will save their state so its not a big deal.
Overall, you are correct in saying a user might want control over which apps are never killed, which is why they would use a task manager, but there are probably many people who use task managers for the wrong reasons.
The title is basically the question, im fed up of alot of programs auto opening on my android phone, it takes battery and is slightly annoying receiving notifications off apps i dont really care about such as the NFL game tells me about small things in the NFL, im in the UK, i dont care.
If you argue that it doesnt take alot of battery currently have 117mb free ram, (2 secs later) killed all my selected apps now have 201mb free so im using 80mb of ram on apps im not using. Ive made 2 or 3 phone calls today no more than 30 mins long altogether and ive lost 55% of my battery since about midday, which is when i unplugged the phone.
And I think all these apps are the problem so how can I stop them from auto opening, please help
Search the market for startup cleaner
Sent from my A101IT using xda premium
yusuo said:
If you argue that it doesnt take alot of battery currently have 117mb free ram
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More free RAM doesn't really equate to longer battery life or lower power consumption.
Better search for auto starts, this asp shows you the conditions an asp can turn back on and you can bin it off, Facebook for example had like 8 conditions, from full to medium battery life, on charge and change in network....... Use it
Sent from my HTC Desire using xda premium
rootSU said:
More free RAM doesn't really equate to longer battery life or lower power consumption.
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There's still no reason for most of this apps to use RAM. Apps like facebook and skype shouldn't be actice without user permission. Without login they are complete useless.
I'll try Startup Cleaner, thx.
It's how android works and what RAM is for. There is always a reason.
Sure if someone doesn't use Facebook, it should be uninstallable, but its not and its not causing any harm
Sent from my HTC Desire using Tapatalk
The problem isn't that apps start when I turn on the phone its that even after i use task manager to close they keep reopening and use over 100mb of ram, earlier I checked and only had 78mb ram available.
This must have an effect on battery to some degree i want to kinda ban certain apps from running in the background unless i specifically tell them to
RAM doesn't use more power, the more its used, no.
You don't need a task killer. You do not need to obsess about RAM. Forget about RAM and enjoy your phone
Sent from my HTC Desire using Tapatalk
rootSU said:
RAM doesn't use more power, the more its used, no.
You don't need a task killer. You do not need to obsess about RAM. Forget about RAM and enjoy your phone
Sent from my HTC Desire using Tapatalk
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Click to collapse
Thanks for you reply but its not really an answer its more of a contradiction, what I was asking is how to I stop apps from auto starting and eating up RAM, regardless of how long the phones been on
...and I'm telling you its a pointless, unecessary waste of time. Also it is not possible. Autostarts as already mentioned is the closest you'll get
Sent from my HTC Desire using Tapatalk
I also turned off the autorun permissions of a lot of apps, for 2 reasons: 1) a device that is smooth sooner after booting, using less cpu cycles/power. 2) preventing Sense from reloading due to RAM shortage and have smooth multitasking.
1) Android loads a bunch of apps to the RAM that have the autorun permission, until it thinks it is "enough" and useful to you. No matter how many apps you have installed, the amount of free RAM is always about the same, just the number of "unwanted" apps in the RAM differs. Removing the autorun on boot permissions prevents the loading of unnecessary apps that will immediately be removed from the RAM the moment you start the browser/a game, saving cpu cycles=power. So for me there is no point in loading them in the first place, because I am never going to use them (right away). I want the apps that don't to any syncing loaded on demand.
2) I hate slow multitasking and I hate it even more when Sense reloads because it got kicked out of the RAM after each time I press HOME.
I use 3G Watchdog (~12MB RAM), Unlock with Wifi (~8MB), Whatsapp (~15MB), Handcent SMS (~18MB), Droidstats (~13MB), Extended Controls (~12MB), Battery Monitor Widget Pro (~13MB). Okay, I maybe could delete some of them, but these app are "OK" to me, because I use them actively or just need a background service to operate normally.
With Gemini I disabled apps like Facebook, a screenshot tool (just load when I want to make a screenshot..), various public transport planning tools, etc from autostarting.
No joy moment: after using the Facebook app (market version), it may take up 50+ MB and it will not be closed when I start another RAM intensive app, because it is a high priority service. Result: Sense gets kicked out of the RAM. Or, when the situation is somewhat less critical: multitasking is as good as unusable: switching between apps makes them load over and over again, because app2 kicks app1 out of the RAM and vice versa, causing unnecessary lag. Therefore: when I am done with facebook, I close it, then STAY the hell closed It may only autostart when it receives a push message. In that case it is nice to have FB already in RAM when I tap the notification.
Why do even some games have background services, or the Engadget app, or .. , or... all eating precious RAM. And yes, I know, once IN the RAM they eat no battery, but they DO eat battery when the app loads itself back in the RAM when it thinks it needs to, after it got kicked the moment I decided to so something else.
Hmm, spent way too much time to try to explain my frustration Oh and by the way, I have a Legend, but the basics are the same of course.
Dwnload an app called internet commander from the market. It shuts off the internet when your screen turns off but still let's you get calls and texts. I've got my phone , rooted of course, clocked to 710 and my battery will last for days.
Sent from my Eris using xda premium
I just re read your post, that won't help with apps but it will help save battery. And when you turn your screen on the internet kicks right on instantly. Good luck
Sent from my Eris using xda premium
yusuo said:
The problem isn't that apps start when I turn on the phone its that even after i use task manager to close they keep reopening and use over 100mb of ram, earlier I checked and only had 78mb ram available.
This must have an effect on battery to some degree i want to kinda ban certain apps from running in the background unless i specifically tell them to
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
The guys here have already suggested you use a certain program from the Market. Have you tried it?
Regarding the whole RAM consumption issue, Android has its own built-in memory management system that ensures that there's always enough RAM for an app whenever it needs it, even if the memory manager shows like 40 MB free. Basically it "ejects" all background, unused apps, from memory making room for the foreground app which needs it most. If for some reason you need to fiddle with that, you can try using the V6 Supercharger script. I find it suitable for my needs but YMMV. It's completely reversible, so if you don't like it you can uninstall it just like that.
P.S. - I agree with rootSU, the ammount of free RAM has nothing to do with battery consumption. If you suspect that an app is draining your battery, check Android's battery statistics to find the culprit.
TVTV said:
Regarding the whole RAM consumption issue, Android has its own built-in memory management system that ensures that there's always enough RAM for an app whenever it needs it, even if the memory manager shows like 40 MB free. Basically it "ejects" all background, unused apps, from memory making room for the foreground app which needs it most. If for some reason you need to fiddle with that, you can try using the V6 Supercharger script. I find it suitable for my needs but YMMV. It's completely reversible, so if you don't like it you can uninstall it just like that.
P.S. - I agree with rootSU, the ammount of free RAM has nothing to do with battery consumption. If you suspect that an app is draining your battery, check Android's battery statistics to find the culprit.
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I respectfuly disagree. Android built in ram management is just silly. If I open xda app for example (it could actually be any app for that matter), reply to a few posts, read a few more and close it, why does it need to stay in ram? It reloads anyway when I run it again after I've closed it (using the back button or the actual exit command in the app itself). Why does the camera app need to stay in the background after I just shot a few photos and closed it? Because I may or may not use it again in some time? It's rediculous. And the whole theory that ram management doesn't require any power/cpu usage, how do you guys think all those apps get killed? Android will power?! No, kernel scans all running apps and kills the ones based on built in heuristics so it also reads them first. So that doesn't require any power/battery? Awesome if it's true! Although I wouldn't bet on that. And all this fuss just because you may or may not launch the same app sometime during the next day/week/month/year or it'll eventually get killed? Now that's just plain stupid. I get apps that need services like widgets, push notifications etc. but random apps like root explorer, xda app, titanium, youtube etc. which are opened specificly by the user shouldn't be in ram just for the sake of it after they're closed. I closed it, meaning I don't need it anymore. And I don't need the kernel to scan all apps and running services every time I launch an app so it could provide the free ram that app needs. Consumes cpu time, battery, i/o ... every piece of hardware actually just to free some ram that shouldn't be occupied in the first place. Every app that I ever opened on my phone got loaded almost instantly and that's just after phone had been booted. So after that it should stay in ram so I could open it in a blink of an eye instead of instantly? That's just funny.
Anyway, I'm just thinking out loud so don't flame me immediately. There probably are apsects of it that I didn't mention here or am not aware of. And I'm not saying that I'm right and you guys are wrong, I'm just saying what I know and think about this subject.
-. typewrited .-
PlayPetepp, while it might be true that the OS allocates (thus use) some resources to memory maintenance, the impact on battery life is negligible. In the Android OS, apps in memory are ordered according to priority and state, so the OS always knows which apps to kill first if it needs to make room in RAM, without much of a hassle. The only bad consequence of this system seems to be the fact that once the memory fills up, the launcher may lag or even be evacuated from memory. But, as i've mentioned in my previous post, there are ways to prevent that, either via scripts or, if you know what you're doing, via editing system files.
So the OS doesn't need to scan anything as it keeps everything in memory again? Seems like an endless loop. Open, sort, kill if needed, reopen, sort again, kill ... to what end, constant unneccessary multitasking that user is unaware of? I really don't see any benefit of that system and am only seeing the downsides. I mean, who needs every app they ever run remain in ram even if they close them after using? And then opening another app and "waiting" for whatever needs to be closed to get it running. Sure you can mess with the scripts (init.d, init.rc, etc.) but the underlined conditions stay the same. I hope I'm making sense here. Or am I fighting against windmills.
I just figured out that I strayed from the topic of this thread so won't be continuing this discussion if it's considered offtopic.
-. typewrited .-
Stop looking for excuses for poor multitasking in Sense 3+ roms
erklat said:
Stop looking for excuses for poor multitasking in Sense 3+ roms
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Hello again nice to see you here
Here's an interesting article on what I was talking about. Sense 3.5 doesn't need that many mbs of ram to work smoothly. After booting and setting everything up I have 150+ mb free. That should be enough for decent multitasking but all those apps not getting killed when you close them are eating too much. Can anyone explain in detail what hidden app, perceptible app, backup app and heavy_weight app means? I've been googling this for a week and can't find any decent explanation.
@PlayPetepp - I think i have already said (in my previous post) that the OS does indeed use some resources for managing the memory, but they are negligible in terms of their impact on battery life. IMHO, the only thing a 3'rd party memory manager (task killer) WILL do is improve lanuncher responsiveness (lag) as the lag does increase when free RAM drops under a certain limit. Thus used wisely, a task killer can improve responsiveness, but battery life... very little, in rare cases (it does the opposite, most of the time).
Regarding the so called "memory slots", here's an excerpt from this article:
FOREGROUND_APP: This is the application currently on the screen, and running
VISIBLE_APP: This is an application that is open, and running in the background because it's still doing something
SECONDARY_SERVER: This is a process (a service that an application needs) that is alive and ready in case it's needed to do something
HIDDEN_APP: This again is a process, that sits idle (but still alive) in case it's needed by an app that's alive and running
CONTENT_PROVIDER: This is apps that provide data (content) to the system. HTC Facebook Sync? That's a CONTENT_PROVIDER. So are things like the Android Market, or Fring. If they are alive, they can refresh and provide the content they are supposed to at the set interval. If you kill them, they can't of course.
EMPTY_APP: I call these "ghosts." They are apps that you have opened, but are done with them. Android uses a unique style of handling memory management. When an activity is ended, instead of killing it off Android keeps the application in memory so that opening them again is a faster process. Theses "ghost" apps use no battery or CPU time, they just fill RAM that would be otherwise empty. When this memory is needed by a different application or process, the RAM is flushed and made available for the new app. To satisfy the geekier people (like myself) Android does this by keeping a list of recently used apps, with the oldest apps in the list given the lowest priority -- they are killed first if RAM is needed elsewhere. This is a perfect way to handle 'ghost' processes, so there's no need to touch this part
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