Develop Bugs

Difference between Unrevoked 3 and Unrevoked forever?

Can someone explain to me the difference between unrevoked 3 and unrevoked forever? I have read the entire unrevoked site, and searched, and it seems that unrevoked 3 does essentially the same as forever, in that, it seems that forever used to do nand unlock and be a permanent root, and unrevoked wasn't, but now they seem to be the same exact thing. I just ran unrevoked3 on an evo with the latest OTA update on it. Can someone please explain to me what the limitations of this root are compared to unrevoked forever, or even a more traditional rooting method? I still just don't get it, and this is coming from someone who rooted a G1 an a N1, and ran CM on both, and flashed recoveries, and did it through ADB.

I'm curious about this too. It does sound like Unrevoked 3.2 basically includes Unrevoked Forever.

Noxious Ninja said:
I'm curious about this too. It does sound like Unrevoked 3.2 basically includes Unrevoked Forever.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
you are correct its like a combination of unrevoked 2 and unrevoked forever. full root, nand unlock included

I never used forever but my understanding is that forever is not full root. It just turns s off and gives you the ability you flash zips through hboot.

unrevoked = standard root + recovery
unrevoked forever = SOFF (meaning security is turned off at the radio and you can forever flash any valid rom/update even if you do an OTA that removed root and/or recovery, just flash a new amon/clockwork).
I believe that the latest unrevoked does include/run unrevoked forever also, but if you already rooted and have a custom recovery, you can simply flash the unrevoked forever directly.

from what i gather unrevoked forever lets you do OTA and you just reflash Su and your recovery

[Q] S-OFF??

What does this do and where do I get this?

Google it
Sent from my netarchy_toast, froyo beast of a machine evo!

I dont know the answer, but evohack99's answer was really not helpful. This is the right section for the question...

Why when I can ask you??? Isn't this what this forum is for????

i still dont know what s-off is. I agree this is the right section which is why i dont understand your getting a sarcastic answer from evohack.

RichTJ99 said:
i still dont know what s-off is. I agree this is the right section which is why i dont understand your getting a sarcastic answer from evohack.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Ok, I found something...
The security level is a flag stored on the radio; when the flag is S-OFF, the bootloader (HBOOT) will no longer check the signatures of firmware images before flashing them. This allows custom firmware images to be uploaded, including unsigned boot, recovery, splash1, and hboot images (as well as official images that have been modified). When the system is S-OFF, the NAND flash memory protection is also reduced; this allows all partitions (including /system) to be written to while the operating system is booted.
I guess this process is a part of the Unrevoked 3.21...

fechina said:
Ok, I found something...
The security level is a flag stored on the radio; when the flag is S-OFF, the bootloader (HBOOT) will no longer check the signatures of firmware images before flashing them. This allows custom firmware images to be uploaded, including unsigned boot, recovery, splash1, and hboot images (as well as official images that have been modified). When the system is S-OFF, the NAND flash memory protection is also reduced; this allows all partitions (including /system) to be written to while the operating system is booted.
I guess this process is a part of the Unrevoked 3.21...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
No. It is an ADDITIONAL process. While not required, it is often recommended.
See Unrevoked's website for the definitive answer.
HTH
--Chris

Sorry, that is just a common question in which can be found all over the forum or on google, sorry I was being an ass,
Sent from my netarchy_toast, froyo beast of a machine evo!

fechina said:
Ok, I found something...
The security level is a flag stored on the radio; when the flag is S-OFF, the bootloader (HBOOT) will no longer check the signatures of firmware images before flashing them. This allows custom firmware images to be uploaded, including unsigned boot, recovery, splash1, and hboot images (as well as official images that have been modified). When the system is S-OFF, the NAND flash memory protection is also reduced; this allows all partitions (including /system) to be written to while the operating system is booted.
I guess this process is a part of the Unrevoked 3.21...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
fechina , I think it is an ADDITIONAL step using unrevoked forever, been a while since I did this and the code has changed, review the "more" option after selecting unrevoked forever at there website and it will fill in the blanks. Your definition/understanding is right on. The point, I think you need to flash unrevoked forever to have nand-off, but verify and understand the process before you do it.

debugguy said:
fechina , I think it is an ADDITIONAL step using unrevoked forever, been a while since I did this and the code has changed, review the "more" option after selecting unrevoked forever at there website and it will fill in the blanks. Your definition/understanding is right on. The point, I think you need to flash unrevoked forever to have nand-off, but verify and understand the process before you do it.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Correct debugguy, it IS an ADDITIONAL process. In fact, this was the route I took
to root my supersonic; Unrevoked 3.21 > Unrevoked forever.
I can state that after recently rooting my phone via Unrevoked 3.21, the
process went as intended & w/o error. But when completed && rebooted to the
newly rooted phone, S-OFF was not implemented. So I downloaded & installed
Unrevoked forever. Now S-OFF is implemented.
--Chris

From what I read before I rooted.
S-Off prevents the rom from reverting back to the original data every time you reboot.
It also lets you flash custom roms.
UnrEVOked 3.21 sets it to S-Off, but unrEVOked forever will make S-Off permanent.
Permanent... as in safe to update using OTA's.
If you aren't unrEVOked forever an OTA can actually remove the S-Off flag and prevent you from re-rooting.

xNotta said:
From what I read before I rooted.
S-Off prevents the rom from reverting back to the original data every time you reboot.
It also lets you flash custom roms.
UnrEVOked 3.21 sets it to S-Off, but unrEVOked forever will make S-Off permanent.
Permanent... as in safe to update using OTA's.
If you aren't unrEVOked forever an OTA can actually remove the S-Off flag and prevent you from re-rooting.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yes.
Unrevoked 3.21 = S-OFF && r/w long enough to rewrite your ROM with the one provided in Unrevoked 3.21
Unrevoked forever = S-OFF forever
It's all at their website and in numerous threads in these forums.
--Chris

Thanks.....

WOW, thanks...

xNotta said:
.....
If you aren't unrEVOked forever an OTA can actually remove the S-Off flag and prevent you from re-rooting.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
This is the line I don't understand. If you don't run Forever and an OTA removes the S-OFF flag, why couldn't you just re-run Unrevoked again to gain root access?
Is it because a new OTA could block Unrevoked?
Thanks!

daystrom said:
This is the line I don't understand. If you don't run Forever and an OTA removes the S-OFF flag, why couldn't you just re-run Unrevoked again to gain root access?
Is it because a new OTA could block Unrevoked?
Thanks!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Unrevoked exploits a vulnerability to "root" the phone.
So, an OTA could patch that vulnerability and you would have to wait for another exploit to be found in order to regain S-Off and root again.
Ex. When OTA froyo came out unrevoked would not work since htc fixed the vulnerability used in rooting 2.1.
Sent from my Evo using XDA App.

Cool, thanks for that good info.

One more question -
Many are saying that you have to run Forever AFTER you have installed 3.21.
HOWEVER when you run 3.21 and click File, there is an option that is checked that says "Disable security on Phone".
When you select this a prompt comes up saying "unrEVOked Forever will not be installed".
When you select it again to enable it a prompt comes up saying "unrEVOked Forever will be installed to disable device security.".
To me this sounds like Forever IS installed with 3.21.
No?

daystrom said:
One more question -
Many are saying that you have to run Forever AFTER you have installed 3.21.
HOWEVER when you run 3.21 and click File, there is an option that is checked that says "Disable security on Phone".
When you select this a prompt comes up saying "unrEVOked Forever will not be installed".
When you select it again to enable it a prompt comes up saying "unrEVOked Forever will be installed to disable device security.".
To me this sounds like Forever IS installed with 3.21.
No?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I've actually wondered the same thing, since after rooting with 3.21 it is set to S-Off.
I wanted to be safe so I still flashed unrevoked forever.
It's a flashable zip so it's not hard to do and it take only a few seconds.
Better safe then without root, imo.
Sent from my Evo using XDA App.

Quick question. I had to use simple root method because of issues with unrevoked 3.21. Can I still run unrevoked forever?
It's called supersonic for a reason.

stock device, can I RUU to older updates?

Here's my question. My friend's brother attempted to root his stock Evo using simpleroot instructions I sent my friend 4-5 months ago (pre-2.2) without knowing that simpleroot isn't supported. His phone is now borked. When he tries to load into bootloader, he gets an error (not sure which one), but his phone will boot into android.
What I'm wondering is this: As of yesterday, his phone was updated and current as per sprint and the update commands in the system menus... Can he flash back to an older stock rom via RUU (such as this one) without causing other problems? If my understanding is correct, the latest sprint updates aren't yet rootable, right?
Any help on this issue?
Thanks

Is the phone s-off?
Sent from my PC36100 using XDA App

badutahboy said:
Here's my question. My friend's brother attempted to root his stock Evo using simpleroot instructions I sent my friend 4-5 months ago (pre-2.2) without knowing that simpleroot isn't supported. His phone is now borked. When he tries to load into bootloader, he gets an error (not sure which one), but his phone will boot into android.
What I'm wondering is this: As of yesterday, his phone was updated and current as per sprint and the update commands in the system menus... Can he flash back to an older stock rom via RUU (such as this one) without causing other problems? If my understanding is correct, the latest sprint updates aren't yet rootable, right?
Any help on this issue?
Thanks
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
No, you can not run an older ruu. If he updated to today or yesterdays update hes stuck. If he is on HBOOT 2.02 he can flash the 3.30.651.3 ruu or ths 3.70.651.1 but you can not ruu further back.

animal7296 said:
No, you can not run an older ruu. If he updated to today or yesterdays update hes stuck. If he is on HBOOT 2.02 he can flash the 3.30.651.3 ruu or ths 3.70.651.1 but you can not ruu further back.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Are either of these rootable yet?
and can someone explain what S-on and off means?

badutahboy said:
Are either of these rootable yet?
and can someone explain what S-on and off means?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yes, they're both rootable.
S-ON vs S-OFF; is just basically a security parameter that's being locked/unlocked. This allows for PC36IMG's files to be flashed via the bootloader without having to use or have authenticated signature keys from Google.
Basically, if you ever accept an OTA and it flashes and removes your recovery (CWM or Amon_RA); then you have no way of flashing custom roms/mods, etc... however with S-OFF, you have the ability to get your recovery back and set yourself back to root if need be.
Essentially, S-OFF allows for another method of flashing stuff to the phone besides just using the CWM or Amon_RA recoveries.
Hboot versions however can affect S-OFF; so it's important that if there is a new OTA that you always hold off, until a developer can validate that the hboot can be exploited and that the OTA can be rooted.

badutahboy said:
Are either of these rootable yet?
and can someone explain what S-on and off means?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
1. 2.02 is rootable 2.10 is not and is the newest one.
2.0 S-ON means you can not flash roms s-off means you can. It is the security of the phone kind of.
If you can not get into bootloader then you can try running the oldest ruu and then the next. It wont hurt the phone at all (I just did it today) it will just give you an error and reboot the phone.

pseudoremora said:
Yes, they're both rootable.
S-ON vs S-OFF; is just basically a security parameter that's being locked/unlocked. This allows for PC36IMG's files to be flashed via the bootloader without having to use or have authenticated signature keys from Google.
Basically, if you ever accept an OTA and it flashes and removes your recovery (CWM or Amon_RA); then you have no way of flashing custom roms/mods, etc... however with S-OFF, you have the ability to get your recovery back and set yourself back to root if need be.
Essentially, S-OFF allows for another method of flashing stuff to the phone besides just using the CWM or Amon_RA recoveries.
Hboot versions however can affect S-OFF; so it's important that if there is a new OTA that you always hold off, until a developer can validate that the hboot can be exploited and that the OTA can be rooted.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Thanks for the explanations and the help.
How do I find out if it's S-on or off, and is it possible to change?

pseudoremora said:
Yes, they're both rootable.
S-ON vs S-OFF; is just basically a security parameter that's being locked/unlocked. This allows for PC36IMG's files to be flashed via the bootloader without having to use or have authenticated signature keys from Google.
Basically, if you ever accept an OTA and it flashes and removes your recovery (CWM or Amon_RA); then you have no way of flashing custom roms/mods, etc... however with S-OFF, you have the ability to get your recovery back and set yourself back to root if need be.
Essentially, S-OFF allows for another method of flashing stuff to the phone besides just using the CWM or Amon_RA recoveries.
Hboot versions however can affect S-OFF; so it's important that if there is a new OTA that you always hold off, until a developer can validate that the hboot can be exploited and that the OTA can be rooted.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I have been trying to root 2.10 since yesterday and it has proven to not be possible as of yet. If you have a rooting method that works for me then would you share please?

animal7296 said:
I have been trying to root 2.10 since yesterday and it has proven to not be possible as of yet. If you have a rooting method that works for me then would you share please?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Im with u brotha im stuck on 2.10 from a mistake i made. Was originally on 0.76.2
Sux man
Sent from my PC36100 using Tapatalk

badutahboy said:
Thanks for the explanations and the help.
How do I find out if it's S-on or off, and is it possible to change?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
To see if you're S-OFF or S-ON; you can boot your phone into bootloader mode.
To do this:
1. Power down the phone
2. Hold the Volume Down + Power button
3. You'll see a white screen with three little Androids
4. Read the very top of the screen; should tell you if you are S-ON or S-OFF.
You can reboot afterwards.
And yes, you can switch from the S-ON to S-OFF and vise versa, though I don't see why you would want to do the latter.
animal7296 said:
I have been trying to root 2.10 since yesterday and it has proven to not be possible as of yet. If you have a rooting method that works for me then would you share please?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
luckylui said:
Im with u brotha im stuck on 2.10 from a mistake i made. Was originally on 0.76.2
Sux man
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I apologize to the both of you guys; I was under the impression that 2.10 was S-OFF, apparently testing is still being done. For now, looks like you'll have to sit tight. Sorry guys.

pseudoremora said:
To see if you're S-OFF or S-ON; you can boot your phone into bootloader mode.
To do this:
1. Power down the phone
2. Hold the Volume Down + Power button
3. You'll see a white screen with three little Androids
4. Read the very top of the screen; should tell you if you are S-ON or S-OFF.
You can reboot afterwards.
And yes, you can switch from the S-ON to S-OFF and vise versa, though I don't see why you would want to do the latter.
I apologize to the both of you guys; I was under the impression that 2.10 was S-OFF, apparently testing is still being done. For now, looks like you'll have to sit tight. Sorry guys.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
However it has been verified that if you were S-OFF on 2.02 you can install the OTA and you will end up with HBOOT 2.10 with S-OFF.

pseudoremora said:
To see if you're S-OFF or S-ON; you can boot your phone into bootloader mode.
To do this:
1. Power down the phone
2. Hold the Volume Down + Power button
3. You'll see a white screen with three little Androids
4. Read the very top of the screen; should tell you if you are S-ON or S-OFF.
You can reboot afterwards.
And yes, you can switch from the S-ON to S-OFF and vise versa, though I don't see why you would want to do the latter.
I apologize to the both of you guys; I was under the impression that 2.10 was S-OFF, apparently testing is still being done. For now, looks like you'll have to sit tight. Sorry guys.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
No prob pimp
Ima call sprint n see if i can some how get me a phone w the 2.02 hboot and just pretty much get an upgrade from 0003 hardware to 0004 Lol
Im like jumpy rite now ahaha
Sent from my PC36100 using Tapatalk

tpbklake said:
However it has been verified that if you were S-OFF on 2.02 you can install the OTA and you will end up with HBOOT 2.10 with S-OFF.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
True this, but when i did it i was at 0.76.2 and now screw at 2.10 cause it updated all the way n i didnt want to do that.. Got lost in the tangle haha
Sent from my PC36100 using Tapatalk

tpbklake said:
However it has been verified that if you were S-OFF on 2.02 you can install the OTA and you will end up with HBOOT 2.10 with S-OFF.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yea, I heard about this in the IRC; too bad these guys can do that... unfortunate; but I'm sure the Unrevoked team will have a fix soon enough.
luckylui said:
No prob pimp
Ima call sprint n see if i can some how get me a phone w the 2.02 hboot and just pretty much get an upgrade from 0003 hardware to 0004 Lol
Im like jumpy rite now ahaha
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Good luck with Sprint; I don't know how helpful they're going to be, but you never know...

@luckylui and animal7296, check out the 2.02/2.10 rooting thread again, it seems they got something working. Good luck.

badutahboy said:
Here's my question. My friend's brother attempted to root his stock Evo using simpleroot instructions I sent my friend 4-5 months ago (pre-2.2) without knowing that simpleroot isn't supported. His phone is now borked. When he tries to load into bootloader, he gets an error (not sure which one), but his phone will boot into android.
What I'm wondering is this: As of yesterday, his phone was updated and current as per sprint and the update commands in the system menus... Can he flash back to an older stock rom via RUU (such as this one) without causing other problems? If my understanding is correct, the latest sprint updates aren't yet rootable, right?
Any help on this issue?
Thanks
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
There actually is a way to downgrade without rooting, all you need to do is flash the mtd-eng.img file to your misc partition as explained in toast's rooting part 2 thread. After you do that it will let you flash any ruu that is compatible with your phone
Sent from my PC36100 using XDA App

S-OFF still showing after OTA?

My wife got her replacement Inc2 today after the one she got last week just died. She was on Froyo so I might of.. swapped her phones.. anyways, I rooted, went to the bathroom and the stupid ota ran I guess because when I came back the phone was on GB 2.3.3 however my boot screen shows S-OFF. Can anyone help me to verify that S-OFF is indeed still off. I can post any screen shots etc.. I am still a noob when it comes to the Inc2.

If your boot screen says S-Off, you are S-Off
Sent from my stock, bloated ADR6350 using XDA Premium App

Did you flash clockworkmod recovery when you rooted? I didn't think the OTA would take if you had a custom recovery. In any event, since you're still s-off, you're fine.

I actually hadn't flashed recovery yet. Went ahead and flashed recovery. Superuser installed but busybox keeps failing. I am manually installing them since the patch I found also includes a rooted kernel but it is for Froyo.
The biggest deal for me is I am still S-OFF. I'm just confused as to how I managed to remain S-OFF after the OTA went through. If I can't get busybox installed I'll probably install Ginger Sense to obtain it.

kujayhawks77 said:
I actually hadn't flashed recovery yet. Went ahead and flashed recovery. Superuser installed but busybox keeps failing. I am manually installing them since the patch I found also includes a rooted kernel but it is for Froyo.
The biggest deal for me is I am still S-OFF. I'm just confused as to how I managed to remain S-OFF after the OTA went through. If I can't get busybox installed I'll probably install Ginger Sense to obtain it.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Alpharev changed ur hboot to a higer version than the one in the OTA.. this is why it kept you S-OFF.. if I'm wrong someone correct me.

So basically I just got really lucky and kept my S-OFF even though the OTA went through.

kujayhawks77 said:
So basically I just got really lucky and kept my S-OFF even though the OTA went through.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
No. stock hboot is .97. alpharev bumped you up to 1.something.. idk I used XTC clip.. since your hboot is newer than the OTA.. it keeps you S-OFF, pretty smart by alpha.

So does this open a gateway to first root in Froyo and then go gingerbread and retain the root?

Only way to be able to tell is to have someone repeat my steps which were: stock froyo, run AlphaRevX, did not flash recovery, Run OTA (this happened by accident I did not intend for the OTA to go through) after the OTA is finished reboot and if it is indeed a "gateway" then S-OFF would still be on. (After seeing S-OFF was on (and making sure it was okay) I went ahead and installed cwm recovery at that point)
Now when I use the term "gateway" I say this loosely because it doesn't fix anything for anyone who is already on GB. If indeed this works, it would only work for a small percentage who get Froyo and don't flash clockwork before running the OTA.

I just got my Inc2 as a replacement for my fascinate, came with 2.1 might try your steps and see if my root will stay after doing the OTA

tnez said:
I just got my Inc2 as a replacement for my fascinate, came with 2.1 might try your steps and see if my root will stay after doing the OTA
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
2.1??? I think you are mistaken, sir

beenz said:
2.1??? I think you are mistaken, sir
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
He was mistaken cause it is sense 2.1 but android 2.2
Sent from my Incredible 2 using XDA Premium App

kujayhawks77 said:
Only way to be able to tell is to have someone repeat my steps which were: stock froyo, run AlphaRevX, did not flash recovery, Run OTA (this happened by accident I did not intend for the OTA to go through) after the OTA is finished reboot and if it is indeed a "gateway" then S-OFF would still be on. (After seeing S-OFF was on (and making sure it was okay) I went ahead and installed cwm recovery at that point)
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I've been wondering about this. I got my Dinc2 early July and I'm still on stock, unrooted Froyo. Somehow the OTA update to GB hasn't hit yet. Could I run ApharevX to get S-off and stop there for now? I am happy with bloated stock for the time being and want to be able to receive OTA updates, but would like to have the option down the road to add Clockworkmod and flash custom ROMs. From kujayhawks experience it seems that this should be possible.
Basically, if I achieve S-off with AlpharevX now, will I be able to pretty much do anything later?
P.S. First post, though I've been lurking around for a while. Great forum/community.

xenakis said:
Basically, if I achieve S-off with AlpharevX now, will I be able to pretty much do anything later?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
It appears from reports that S-off stays after the OTA to 2.3, so yea, that would seem to be the case.
If you turn S-off with AlphaRev, you might want to just go ahead and install Clockwork recovery at the same time. Doing so won't root or install SuperUser or anything, but you would be able to then backup your phone and be ready to flash if you wanted.

If you install clockwork recovery you won't be able to receive OTAs though, just keep that in mind. You can flash back to the stock recovery, but unless you are familiar with ADB, it won't necessarily be an easy process.

[Q] Unrevoked Forever - previously rooted phone

Dilema - I purchased a previoulsy rooted phone, is there a way to tell if unrevoked forever has been run?
OR
Can I just run unrevoked forever regardless?

It doesnt matter if unrevoked forever has been run or not. The only thing that matters is whether or not you have s-off

Jim M said:
Dilema - I purchased a previoulsy rooted phone, is there a way to tell if unrevoked forever has been run?
OR
Can I just run unrevoked forever regardless?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
It wouldn't hurt anything to run it again, but if you go into the bootloader by holding the Volume Down key when you power on the phone you can look at the top and see if it says S-Off or S-On. If it's S-Off, then you're good and you can flash a recovery if you don't already have one, and flash whatever ROM you want if you do.

I want to keep s-off forever, that's why it matters, ergo my question, can unrevoked forever be run regardless?

Jim M said:
I want to keep s-off forever, that's why it matters, ergo my question, can unrevoked forever be run regardless?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Check the hboot version in the bootloader for s-off. if it's s-off it is rooted. If its version 2.10 and s-on, it can be rooted. If already rooted, you can run the unforever zip, but it really won't do anything, as its been depreciated in the latest builds of unrevoked; it was used to give s-off in older versions and was then since incorporated into unrevoke 3.x.

Jim M said:
I want to keep s-off forever, that's why it matters, ergo my question, can unrevoked forever be run regardless?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
S-Off is permanent (unless you intentionally run the S-On tool), so if you have it, you're good. The information is stored in the radio memory, not on the ROM system partition. Unrevoked forever gives you S-Off, which is why it has that name. Unrevoked3 just gives you superuser status in Android.
I've heard people say that running an RUU can sometimes reset you to S-On. I don't think that's true. Maybe the newest update... but I doubt it. Either way, just don't ever take an official update or run an RUU .

I went ahead and ran unrevoked forever again. My phone still functions, so it didn't hurt anything. It's beer-thirty now.
Sent from my PC36100 using Tapatalk