alright, im a regular of the xda-devs irc. there have been more people the last 2 weeks that have come in there with questions that couldve been solved by a 2 minute read on the wiki.
i've read the annoucement, however i do not..understand what the issue was.
XDA's old wiki software was hacked and represented a security threat to the entire site.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
i'd like to ask would it not be more timely to fix the hack. i'm unsure as to what they did, however from the sound of it they got database access.
in which case, move the tables from mainserver to another and make them readonly. i cannot grasp why shutting down the wiki for weeks on end is a better idea than a few file adjustments as a stopgap.
somebody willing to put out more information on the matter?
cheapusenet said:
alright, im a regular of the xda-devs irc. there have been more people the last 2 weeks that have come in there with questions that couldve been solved by a 2 minute read on the wiki.
i've read the annoucement, however i do not..understand what the issue was.
i'd like to ask would it not be more timely to fix the hack. i'm unsure as to what they did, however from the sound of it they got database access.
in which case, move the tables from mainserver to another and make them readonly. i cannot grasp why shutting down the wiki for weeks on end is a better idea than a few file adjustments as a stopgap.
somebody willing to put out more information on the matter?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
The wiki software is old, and probably has a few vulnerabilities. I'm guessing it's more than just the wiki's database been hacked that is the securing concern. Most of the db tables will probably be written to, so read-only might not be a viable option. Remember the old wiki has integrated login with vB.
The admins have setup a new MediaWiki wiki and people are currently helping migrate the content over. I'm not sure of the "Go Live" for it, but it's starting to shape up.
Dave
i just now found it, its looking..pretty good. still seems to me an hours work on the old one could fix it enough to suffice until the new ones all ready to go.
At the moment, there's only a handful of folks working on porting (migrating) the information over.
We could use (and appreciate) any and all help on this effort. If you or others members are wish to assist, please contact svetius via PM.
Cheers,
so its still dead for the foreseable future. why is it we don't give my plan some thought. it cannot hurt. it'd be alot faster and alot better than waiting for every page to be moved over by a handful of people, and at the rate its going it's not exactly speedy.
cheapusenet said:
so its still dead for the foreseable future. why is it we don't give my plan some thought. it cannot hurt. it'd be alot faster and alot better than waiting for every page to be moved over by a handful of people, and at the rate its going it's not exactly speedy.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Every visit to a page writes to the database, so read-only's not an option.
To use it, it still needs read access to the vB user login database, so we cannot secure XDA's vB database from it, meaning if there are SQL IV vulnerabilities someone could access parts of our vB database.
Dave
o use it, it still needs read access to the vB user login database,
^
bingo, why. why does it HAVE to access login data?
as for writing to the database stripping that code out couldnt be that hard,.
cheapusenet said:
o use it, it still needs read access to the vB user login database,
^
bingo, why. why does it HAVE to access login data?
as for writing to the database stripping that code out couldnt be that hard,.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
It will have access to the login data so that we only need one login for the wiki and for vB.
I've seen the code for it from when it was on Source Forge, it's a mess - if we miss something that could be a problem.
Also if we were still getting SQL IV attack's against read-only databases, I'd still be worried .
Dave
I've started a thread for discussion on the wiki migration:
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=729576
daveshaw, you're missing my point completely. the data in the wiki is in no way dependant on userlogins. it could be moved to a completely different server if needbe, mysqlhaxing across into another db onto another server .. over xda, would be a pretty darn extravagant feat id say.
cheapusenet said:
alright, im a regular of the xda-devs irc. there have been more people the last 2 weeks that have come in there with questions that couldve been solved by a 2 minute read on the wiki.
i've read the annoucement, however i do not..understand what the issue was.
i'd like to ask would it not be more timely to fix the hack. i'm unsure as to what they did, however from the sound of it they got database access.
in which case, move the tables from mainserver to another and make them readonly. i cannot grasp why shutting down the wiki for weeks on end is a better idea than a few file adjustments as a stopgap.
somebody willing to put out more information on the matter?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
As Dave mentioned, the old wiki software has inherent vulnerabilities, and because it is no longer supported, we don't get periodic updates from the creator. MediaWiki is much better supported, so that over time we can continually update the software to keep it secure, etc.
in no way am i objecting to using mediawiki. moving it all over to mediawiki is a great idea, i agree.
however restricting access to the current one for weeks just because somebody doesnt want to edit some files, jerry-rig it a bit, is a bit of a..pain for everyone. alot of data is stored in that wiki.
cheapusenet said:
in no way am i objecting to using mediawiki. moving it all over to mediawiki is a great idea, i agree.
however restricting access to the current one for weeks just because somebody doesnt want to edit some files, jerry-rig it a bit, is a bit of a..pain for everyone. alot of data is stored in that wiki.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
We're just trying to migrate it as fast as possible.
Related
First of all: don't worry. Everything you are used to is still here. Your username still exists, all the messages are still here, and we're all still here.
There are a few changes though:
You can set a country flag, as well as which device(s) you have and a home GSM-provider. These will be displayed in icon form with your messages. It's completely uncomplicated and much more fun if everyone participates. So please use the 'Profile' button in the menu above to set these things for you. They help others help you by knowing what device you have and what provider you are using.
Topics now have an extra property, which defines whether they are relevant for the original XDA, for the XDA II or for both. A small icon shows with each message. You can set this property when you start a new topic.
The separate XDAII board is gone. All messages there have been moved to the forum where they are most appropriate (see below). The fact that the messages were originally posted in XDAII now shows with an icon.
We now allow attachments, both in forum postings and in Private Messages, sized up to 50MB (!).
The boards have new names, and are slightly re-organized:
[list:42f131921e]
General
Current events, news, etc.
Using it
messages formerly in 'PocketPC' go here.
Not too technical, about use and peculiarities.
Unlocking it
formerly called 'Unlocking'
Networking it
formerly called 'GPRS/WAP settings'
Stocking up for it
formerly called 'Accessories'
Upgrading and modifying it
formerly 'ROM updates'
Hacking it
formerly 'Programmers corner' and 'Other techie stuff'
Anything but it
formerly called 'Off-topic'
[/list:u:42f131921e]
We currently use the plain-vanilla 'subSilver' phpBB style. Expect further changes to the way things look over the next few days. Please let me know by clicking 'PM' under this message if anything that used to work for you all of a sudden isn't working anymore.
Hope you like it...
New look
Sexy!
Wow ! well done ! :wink: certainly a lot of work ...thanks
Sure does and it looks good too! 8)
But found the following to be missing:
no USA T-Mobile listed under GSM Provider
no AT&T radio stacks listed under Radio Version.
Qman said:
no USA T-Mobile listed under GSM Provider
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Whoops. Fixed.
no AT&T radio stacks listed under Radio Version.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
We're still confused about all these Radio Stack Upgrade numbers. And if we are confused, imagine what that means for the poor folks out there. But I will include some more numbers tomorrow...
A couple of suggestions:
In the ROM Version setting of the profile, there should be a "kitchen" option for 4.00.16, since this is on at least one kitchen (perhaps "kitchen" ought to be a check box?)
I don't know that I would have chosen to have a merged 'update it' forum for XDAI and XDAII. Most readers are interested in info for one device and dont care about the other.
pdhenry said:
A couple of suggestions:
In the ROM Version setting of the profile, there should be a "kitchen" option for 4.00.16, since this is on at least one kitchen (perhaps "kitchen" ought to be a check box?)
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Done. I might make it a checkbox later on.
I don't know that I would have chosen to have a merged 'update it' forum for XDAI and XDAII. Most readers are interested in info for one device and dont care about the other.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I was planning to create a one-click filter option for 'viewforum.php'.
Why damn, this blob-thing is ... growing.
As you may have seen the forum now has it's own hostname: forum.xda-developers.com. All existing links (/forum and /phpBB) will redirect to the correct thread or post on the new hostname (using a rewrite rule and sending HTTP 'Moved Permanently').
The uncompressed database for the forum is now 40 MB, the entire site is sending and receiving a few GigaBytes per day, to and from over 2500 unique IP-numbers each day.
Congradulation!
Hello
Well done and great work, keep it up.
thanks with best regards.
Othman
looks alrite but i miss the yellowy colour scheme now looks like every other forum on the web lol :roll:
how strange ...
the DB is only 40Mb ... this fits on 10% of my stamp size SD card ...
and yet, with just 2500 db-access (and how many posts? probably 100kb)
we get Giga bytes of traffic....
Just think how wasteful we're with current technology....
This goes double for a Pocket PC with two wireless communications,
100's of Mb of data, 400Mhz cpu ... and all that it does is displaying
who is calling your phone
Hmmm ....
[this is not a flame of the site or the PPC.... just a note on the status of the information/software age of the 21st century in general]
Looks
gazzaman2k said:
looks alrite but i miss the yellowy colour scheme now looks like every other forum on the web lol :roll:
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
No worries: this is temporary. There will be some proper design-work done on the entire site.
This is a good opportunity to say "Thank you" to Mario Giambanco, whose ideas and kind offer to work on the site prompted me to do some cleanup first, which resulted in the changes you see. Between him, myself, and hopefully some other volunteers we can now start to do a major overhaul concerning the looks and stale content of the main site.
The new 'main site' is going to be database-generated (from the phpBB database), and will have at least 'News' and 'FAQ' pages, pointing to topics on the forum. This will mean the 'main site' will be much more of an up-to-date tribute to the collective work of all of you on the forum, instead of a somewhat stale collection of some cool stuff we did way back. Creating layout in the way we did it before is just too much work.
Welcome to our new face
It looks very nice :lol:
But maybe we need added section: download & upgrade hardware ???
:wink:
very nice
Simply An excellent job
I preferred the old one. bah humbug
Thank You!
Thanks! For all the hard work it is much appreciated :wink:
Keep burning the midnight oil, it can only get better! ( like the XDA II )
Kind Regards, StayLucky Jim.
Hacking it ?
I written quite a few custom applications for the XDA and your site has some interesting infomation that has helped me.
I have replied a couple of times too with some code snipits.
All was very professional.
Now the Programmers Corner is under Hacking it, so I must of now become a Hacker. An interesting term, that I will have to add to my CV and see if it effects my future software appointments.
At last! Your decision to migrate to 2.0.6 is very welcome
If you interested - I can suggest two mobile adaptations for phpbb:
- read only version optimized for using as Mobile Favorites/Avantgo channels
and
- fully functional version for using from mobile devices.
These versions were developed and tested for one of the mostly visited (264,100 messages currently) PDA-related site in Russia http://www.handy.ru/board Unfortunately, all of the site is on Russian, but you may look though the following links just to smell it:
Mobile Favorites/AvantGo version:
Setup channels (Controls translation: forum name; timeframe; pictures (all/smiles only/none); link conversion mode; signatures on/off)
Ready-to-synchronize channel link (two days plus vacations, smiles only, links converted to text, without signatures).
Online mobile version: (banners should be visible from desktop PC only)
Forum index
Forum page
Topic discussion
All security is the same as in desktop phpbb version. Almost all functionality is implemented except site administration, advanced moderation panel (topic joining/splitting/mass deletes) and profile changing/private messaging.
These forum versions not include support for skins or language resources (sorry, but I develop them as fast as I can). So translation to English and slight adaptation to your mods (if any) needed. But I'm ready for this job.
The only main forum changes needed are:
- adding 4 lines to template variables array initialization;
- modifying 4 template files to add links to mobile versions;
Re: Hacking it ?
vangelderp said:
Now the Programmers Corner is under Hacking it, so I must of now become a Hacker. An interesting term, that I will have to add to my CV and see if it effects my future software appointments.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
It seemed like a logical term to combine 'Programmers corner' and the little used 'Other techie stuff'. We think of the term 'hacker' as meaning a benign and very advanced programmer or techie, and not in any negative media-sensationalist terms. (Even though some of us do smile when we take the SIMlock off.)
Ofcourse if you think the rest of the world would see this differently, you're welcome to say 'Programmers corner' in future job applications.
I sincerely hope this linguistic issue will not keep you from continuing to benefit and contribute in the future.
Ok. Short story of what I want to do and why.
I am a developer and I feel that I don't contribute enough to this fantastic site and its users. After the recent unpleasantness I went away and thought about what it is that I could do to try and fix this. My idea is a site or section of the wiki built specifically to track bugs and issues in new roms (I was specifically thinking WMXL but there is no reason this can't be used for all of them).
I am currently working on my own XML based site with PHP5 driving and if people think it will be useful I'd write and host this service before I continued with my own site (hopefully before WMXL 0.30 is released).
I want to try and restrict the way people enter and search the information relating to problems with new roms and try to cut out the background noise. I was thinking about having fields such as ROM version (drop down list), radio version (text box), boot loader (drop down list), main program affected (text box), extent of interference (drop down list), description of problem (text area), how to reproduce error (mandatory text area!).
This will hopefully encourage more people to think about what might be causing the problem rather than just posting what they cant do and expecting someone else to work everything out. Forcing a description of how to recreate the problem will hopefully find most users not needing to post after they work it out, and if the recreation steps dont work then the post will be closed. Hopefully people will think enough that I will be able to moderate this forum (type thing) myself and maybe someone in another timezone (closer to the UK) can take care of it while im asleep.
No one can stop n00bs posting silly questions but hopefully we can reduce the amount this annoys everyone else.
Sorry it took so long to describe my idea.
Maz
UPDATE: STARTED!
I got started as soon as I'd got a couple of replies but I still need you all.
For the chef's and other brilliant people:
1. What info do you need with each ticket to try solve them?
2. Do you want to be the only one to close tickets? Or should the submitter be able to?
3. What info do you want to store for the roms to filter to the smallest pool of specific tickets?
For the users:
1. How do you want to be able to search this?
I DON'T ASK FOR DONATIONS! ALL I ASK IS THAT PEOPLE SEARCH BEFORE SUBMITTING!
---------------
http://maz.net.au/
Bugzilla? yes please
This is a very good idea. In fact, I think that we need too a place to store the temporary fixes generated after each ROM publishing. It will be a good place for this too.
Good Idea.
It Would Help A Lot, Sounds Like Finding Answers Would Be Easier And Should Cut Down On The Hostile Atmosphere.
Cheers
Yes, very good idea.
This become easyest forum for everyone.
If it would be of any use, i can host this on one of our UK servers so we get very good speeds? I know 'iammaz' has said he can host it but he is in Australia so for the UK guys it might be a tad slow.
If not then no worries, but just trying to do my bit!
jaso2005 said:
If it would be of any use, i can host this on one of our UK servers so we get very good speeds? I know 'iammaz' has said he can host it but he is in Australia so for the UK guys it might be a tad slow.
If not then no worries, but just trying to do my bit!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Cheers and I'm sure everyone appreciates the offer. My site is hosted in the US. At the moment this is being built as a module to my current CMS. Whether or not this adds too much overhead I won't know until I try. The problem will be if I use too much cpu time im sure it's against the ToS with my hosting company and they will shut me down.
I hope that I will have it built as a stand alone object by then and anyone else can take this and run this on php5 hosting or in fact I could run it as web services from my personal server at home.
Progress goes well. Just working on possible searching and indexing algorithms to make searching fast and useful.
Maz
-------------------
I can't believe I forget to type this.
http://maz.net.au/
Great idea
It's 2am. I'm piking for the night. I'm expecting a phone call at 7am tomorrow so will be back into it then for 5 or 6 hours. Hopefully will be almost done by the end of that.
I need to work out how you want to have logins work. I don't think i can make it authenticate against this forum (i havent tried integrating with vBulletin before). Do I allow open registration? do I try make it force you to register the same name but PM'ing the password to that username here? do i manually add people as they ask and restrict the group?
let me know in the next 6 hours or so.
Maz
----------------------
Badly styled CMS can be seen here. (new version looks so much better )
http://maz.net.au/
Open registration, but obviously grant privileges to those of us who classify as developers.
Olipro said:
Open registration, but obviously grant privileges to those of us who classify as developers.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
And super-user privileges for the chef's for bug tickets that apply to their cooked roms.
Maz
----------------
hard at work again at http://maz.net.au/
i would love to see a website specifically for g1 themes. with images of all themes, all linking back to the developer. as well as all themes and other downloads being hosted on local server, instead of having to use FTP services like megashares etc.
if anyone with web development/programming experience would be interested in assisting me it would be appreciated, and i think a site of this nature would benefit the android global community as a whole.
may i also state that i have a server with enough bandwidth and server space to handle the high traffic volume that follows a site like this.
i see some great possibilities with this, but in order to get it off the ground i will need some help.
I would love to say yes but my web dev skills have never been used in a real environment.
I would like to see something like this get off the ground. Its such a great idea.
although i do not have a crazy lot of time i do have an extra website that i currently do not use. Its good for a little less than a year and i "could" use iWeb or something to put a site together since it would take crazy less time. Its unlimited everything so i could host the .zip files right on it and just have people download from there. If enough people would use it though. I would def have to have everyone's permission though as i am not getting in trouble with people over something like this. if its something some of these Theme devs would enjoy i could use my current site on DreamHost and allow the download straight from the site with Pictures. Could have a page for each one of them too. Let me know as i would be willing to do this so it would be 100% easier to find things.
Email me at [email protected]
I would be willing to put the time in too since i could add an Ad at the top for some income towards the renew cost if necessary. And i do know what i am doing but it would def have to be a use site not just something 10 people use. www.edgewoodcma.org is my newest site i got up and running for a church.
thats pretty much the idea, it doenst really matter which server is used, however i do have a little over 2 years on mine, but it is unlimited just as yours is. however i do not think a page made in iWeb or something will work quite as nicely as something designed for dynamic updating by many devs.
im looking into a PHP CMS engine that will allow devs to name their .zip files and upload with a thumbnail of the theme. and have the site automatically post the new theme with the naming convention used in the .zip and show the thumbnail as a link to the direct download from the server.
i wanted to try and stay away from another forum site, as well. this is the forum site for android pretty much, we may have a discussion area in the theme site, however the downloads and updates will be on another portion of the page as to eliminate the need to sift through threads to find the themes you want.
The reason i posted that i would be willing to make and update the site is so that useless things will be kept out. I would be willing to accept all photos and .zip files in my email then post onto the site so that duplicates and useless things are kept to a minimum. I would also make multiple sections showing what update you are running (i.e. RC33, ADP 1.5, Dude, ect) and a complete breakdown so that it is as easily as possible to do things. The reason i would use iWeb is because of its simplicity. You could update a site within 2minutes for whatever is needed. I could update anywhere in a matter of minutes which would mean more thing up and running. Just an idea though as i too am wishing it was far easier to locate things instead of sifting through hundreds of posts to find the one decent theme out off 100.
that sounds great, will iWeb allow you to create dynamic websites for the dev to upload his work? or will you manage the whole thing as a static database (updated when devs send you their work)?
if you wish to create this, then please do. i shall continue to look for a permanent, maintenance free*, catalogue of themes. but until an engine is created for that purpose your offer sounds perfect. the android community desperately needs someplace organized to find these themes.
thank you for your offer, if you would like any sort of graphic help just let me know and ill do my best.
Dynamic sounds best, you could accept members (ie theme creators) and only have have control over posting themes and updates to their own themes?
We are actually working on this right now. Just purchased themesdroid.com a couple days ago.
We have a dedicated server we are going to be running it on. We are actively developing the site now. Perhaps we should combine our efforts.
awesome, let me know if you need any help, or any server space etc.
id love to help in any way i can.
--peace
It does seem like a good idea, although I have read in the past something about "why have many resources in many places"...one central location for it all is great, so it would have to have many advantages for it to work. I know instant thumbnails would be 1 (forums it doesnt work like that). Local files is another. Purchasable is probably something considerable.
Ive built for big corps before, and know a lot about that stuff. If you guys need help with doing anything I know almost any solution. Something like "if you donate you get extras" or something, and only those that did donate can get certain things. Helps the developers for their time and effort (like the apps, makes sense).
We are currently investigating a couple options for ThemesDroid.com. We have started working on a download site from the ground up, but we are also looking for possible alternatives. Does anyone know of any decent open source CMS/DMS systems? We have not seen anything that was worth a darn, but if anyone knows of a good one then there is no sense in reinventing the wheel.
kronarq said:
We are currently investigating a couple options for ThemesDroid.com. We have started working on a download site from the ground up, but we are also looking for possible alternatives. Does anyone know of any decent open source CMS/DMS systems? We have not seen anything that was worth a darn, but if anyone knows of a good one then there is no sense in reinventing the wheel.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
What are you looking for in this CMS/DMS system?
well php-fusion is always a safe choice, there was something new... what was it.. http://expressionengine.com/
Ive always found Joomla to be the most flexible system to date, complicated but it will do 'everything' your looking it to do. It has great theme support as well (great flexibility for customizablity). Very secure too.
@malaeus, sorry to say but php-anything is almost always a bad choice, they have many loops/hackable holes.
Xoops is good too. Drupal is good. Or if you have a M$ server (asp), dot net nuke is good, has many add-ons for great flexibility.
Just some suggestions for you guys (btw, all those are free [opensource like android ]
I've been building Drupal sites for years now... if you guys need help, let me know.
http://img38.imageshack.us/img38/6613/demo1z.png
http://img34.imageshack.us/img34/3173/demo2.jpg
Started it 3 hours ago, thats how quick and easy it is. Its just a demo to show you what you can do with it. If you like cool, if not I at least recommend you check out joomla, thats what I created that with (there is no "starting from ground up" with it, its just there to "put the stuff in"). That template is free too (there are plenty out there, I also make my own which takes time). Just threw it together because I had the last three hours off from work and wanted to play with it again.
Drupals good, but I just dont think it has the best of plugins, they are ....awkward or something I dont know.
@kdf2883: Something geared towards downloads. Something preferably lightweight compared to Joomla/Drupal etc
@theslam08: I currently have a test of Joomla + DocMan I have been playing with, but Joomla seems like overkill for what we are doing. It doesn't all our needs so we would still have to modify it yet it does a bunch of junk we don't need. Then there's the usual update every week or get hacked bit...
We are leaning towards just doing everything from scratch. I could have a Joomla site up in a day or two or we can give it a couple weeks to build our own system from the ground up. What do you guys think?
for something like this, we may want to try something as simple as wordpress. each post would be a new theme, images and text would include server direct download link. its at least one of the most compatible backbones i can think of.
i have little to no experience in drupal and joomla etc. however when it comes to the design aspect of the website, thats closing in on my specialty.
@slam nice job on that layout btw. especially considering time spent.
Look at the Lock 2.0 themes site. They use WordPress and in my opinion it's a mess.
i think guy brings up a good point and perhaps a decent solution. why not allow/encourage the dev's to explain a bit more. I'm a fairly adept nerd but when i'm installing an app sometimes i'm just not sure why in the world this app needs that permission...how is my mom or sister or anyone that i advocate Android to going to figure it out? why does this app need my coarse or fine location or full network access or access to the contact list etc...
and please do not say 'if you don't like what's listed, don't install the app'. that is exactly the point of this thread. the line items in the Review Permissions window don't always make sense. how can the average end user make a educated guess with the current system...they don't, they just start doing the same thing they do on their Windows Desktops...just click right on thru it. then what happens? some jerk writes a piece of malware. user has an issue. now its all androids fault. and viola, proof that linux based devices are still too geeky for avg use.
http://tech.shantanugoel.com/2010/08/14/android-permissions-malware.html
Unfortunately, there's no denying the cold, hard facts - ignorance is not bliss. Everything has a learning curve. Time and effort must be spent to educate users as to why <this> is happening and what it is doing for them. It's sad but true. Besides, if everything that required higher learning could be easily figured out I'm sure humanity would be freed from the shackles of poverty, war and hunger by now. So, yes, permissions are too obtuse for the average user. Unless they want to educate themselves on more generalized computing skills they'll never get it.
That's just my two cents. Sorry I couldn't be of better assistance
ok. so i wish to educate myself. please provide a full and detailed example listing why which permissions may be needed/used so that i will be able to make an educated choice. where is that link again?
i'm bringing up an issue...not asking for others to chime in and tell me how stoopid the end user base is. i'm an admin for over 10yrs. trust me ... i know. in this case i am also confused as are a large numer of folks. i understand the huge development curve android has experienced over the last 18mths. my concern is that if this issue is not addressed, even the folks that would take the time to read the Review Permissions page will give up. i know i have on more than one occasion. that's a bad trend.
Wow. You bring up a good point. Didn't mean to offend you or anything. I still don't have a good answer for you but I will let you know that I only install apps that I can trust usually after researching them via Google searches and talking about them with people here. I too am an admin (been a long, long 15 years now) and if there's 2 things I learned about recommending custom Android setups they are:
- If you think the user is going to use you as Wikipedia it's probably best to leave them at stock
and
- Only recommend this kind of stuff to users who are willing to accept responsibility for their actions otherwise you'll be the fall guy every time something goes wrong.
Again, I'm sure you know this and I didn't mean to offend you so..... bye.
Users can be pretty obtuse, and I think you're completely correct about the current permission system. However, I don't think it could be made much clearer without multiplying the number of permissions. Malware can exist because users consider certain permissions to be common. Conversely, apps with a good reputation can include permissions that make them wonder, "why would they need that?" Look at keyboards and how many people freak out when they go to enable them.
One thing that would be nice for users is if you could tap on a permission and the phone would display a short explanation of that permission. They probably aren't self explanatory for everyone.
beatblaster said:
- If you think the user is going to use you as Wikipedia it's probably best to leave them at stock
and
- Only recommend this kind of stuff to users who are willing to accept responsibility for their actions otherwise you'll be the fall guy every time something goes wrong.
Again, I'm sure you know this and I didn't mean to offend you so..... bye.
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no offense. i do understand. there was a point in time where i used to openly provide paid tech support to home systems of my coworkers....it was a short point in time. lol. but i digress ... i may have come off too strong in my reply, i was just trying to prevent the thread from wandering off.
I've tried to post on this topic in the past but have not nothing useful. in and of itself, i find that kinda sad. I've even seen some folks suggest that people "take a trusting stance because most developers do not intend harm". i wish i could. but i'm out of college.
it would be wonderful if someone (ie: a google dev or just someone with knowledge of these things) were able to create a page that could give real world examples and general rules of thumb. currently i have only found a couple pages that cover a couple settings. not nearly enough to be of much use.
Saturn2K said:
One thing that would be nice for users is if you could tap on a permission and the phone would display a short explanation of that permission. They probably aren't self explanatory for everyone.
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I concur.....I look at the permissions that apps ask for all the time. However, if I see a battery management app is asking me for full internet access and access to my contacts, I just pass on it. A lot of times you can figure out if an app is requesting bogus permissions just by using common sense.
rugedraw said:
I concur.....I look at the permissions that apps ask for all the time. However, if I see a battery management app is asking me for full internet access and access to my contacts, I just pass on it. A lot of times you can figure out if an app is requesting bogus permissions just by using common sense.
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if your app is paid for by advertisements then it will need Internet Access so it can retrieve ads...thus paying the developer. often that's where i see 'coarse location' used as well...for regional specific ads. so in those cases, not nefarious use but a perfect example of what I'm talking about. thank you.
the problem with the current permissions system is twofold;
1) as mentioned, there is no details WHY or WHAT FOR a particular permission is required
2) its all or nothing, ie you can't give permission for network access and restrict access to contact list, etc. You have to accept all the requested permissions or deny and not install the app.
fwiw: There is an app in the market called "permissions" that tells you not only the permissions each app requires but it gets VERY specific. Within each permission category there is a whole list of specifics.
It won't help with apps you haven't installed yet but it's good info on the ones you already have.
*edit- Just revisited this app, it's not as detailed as I remember.
just a lil bump...
bumpity bump ...
nothing? at all?
Request 1: Add HTML Tidy to the xda wiki stack
Template:Navbox @ Wikipedia said:
Using this template on other wikis requires HTML Tidy to be turned on. A version that does not require Tidy can be found at Wikipedia:WikiProject Transwiki/Template:Navbox. (That version generally shouldn't be used here on the English Wikipedia.) More detailed information on copying {{Navbox}} to other wikis can be found on the talk page.
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I've been doing a LOT of work adding stuff to the xda wiki, but I've hit an impasse, some of the most complex templates used on Wikipedia depend on it being 'scripted' with HTML instead of pure wikimarkup.
The main example is Template:Navbox. While this specific template does have a pupre wikimarkup equivilent (if it even is an equivilent, it's not maintained at the level of the normal one). The other templates I wish to use dont have equivilents.
Template:Navbox subgroup is the one (among others) that I wish to add in but cant because it depends on HTML Tidy. The Template itself is already on the xda wiki, but if you attempt to use it it's completely broken.
I cant say it's as simple as "install on server and turn it on" but the fact of the matter is that without it most of the fun/magic stuff on wikipedia cant be brought over to the xda wiki.
Some examples of recent stuff i've made (for reference):
Samsung Galaxy S Series Navbox
Samsung Galaxy S II Series Navbox
New Samsung Portal on Main page
Entirety of Dell devices page
If you look at the several navboxes I've made they have hacks in the code to get around the fact that I'm just a normal level editor.
Request 2: We need MOAR editors!
Also this doubles as a request for more editors on the wiki: XDA is the largest android development based site on the internet, yet here we are weeks after the release of the Galaxy Nexus and Galaxy Note and the pages didnt even exist until I made stubs for them.
As of this past quarter I've generated more edits then possibly nearly every other user combined, but there's only so much I can do at this point by my self. (With my primary style being to organize page layouts and tidying stuff up vs writing new content for devices)
[Edit count itself is a bad metric, but edits that arnt mine only number in the dozens a month]
Sure it's reasonable for minor devices and varients to be stubs, but the Note has sold over a million units and yet not a single person has even bothered to make as much as a scribble on the wiki about the device. That's just an example, but ultimately if this were wikipedia, the amount of pages rated 'good' or higher would only number in the dozens. (There's also the fact that my belief is that it's a bad idea to add anything intensive for a device you dont own, standard fare on one device can super-brick another due to quirks)
It's a rather sad state of affairs that for such a large web site with 22000 active users at any one time that there's not a single good consistant repeat editor besides me.
Edit: changed wording to not be inflammatory
Request 3: Turn on Subpages on the main namespace
Mediawiki:Subpages are by default enabled on the template and user namespaces, but not on the main namespace. I believe it's done this way because of editor policy and not technical reasons.
The xda wiki would HEAVILY benefit from having it enabled since it already currently manually uses them, the previous example of:
Samsung <Series>/<model number>/article has long existed this way but without the automatically generated anchors.
The majority of pages are already ready to accept it, it might simply need to be turned on.
XDA Wiki
TheManii said:
there's not a single good editor besides me.
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IMHO that is a rather sweeping statement and is likely to put off anyone from editing the Wiki. I would dispute even your claim as a good editor would not make sweeping changes to categories without discussion on the pages involved. Should I just "undo" them?
XDA has a problem with repetitive questions leading to user dissatisfaction with overlong forums and the loss of good developers such as AdamG.
One solution may be to create a FAQ Wiki for any thread over a certain size (for example 1,000 posts) and automatically link to that thread at the top of every page and above the reply box.
Cheers
Tom
It is sweeping, but the fact is there arent many repeat editors, many devices havnt not seen edits in months because a great deal of the changes dones are a one-time batch job with a single theme.
I'm not at all saying that the other editors are bad, though yes that what the impression was (and perhaps I should have worded it better). I'm saying that few wish to stay with it for the long-haul.
There's few editors that consistantly return to add/update/expand artitles for their own devices or other devices. That's my main issue. I actively want to be proven wrong in this regard, I'm inviting other to prove me wrong. I myself am somewhat guilty of this myself, I primarly concentrate on the dell devices, but I've kept them very up to date for the previous year.
One example I have issue with is: Acer A500 -xda wiki the entire page are just forum links. I have no issue at all with the contents of the posts (just as much my opinion on them is irrelevent) but the fact they are just links and not part of the article. The fact it's not on the wiki means that other editors cannot make changes themselves, which rather defeats the point of the wiki, which leads to,
The other issue is, unless the OP is excellent at keeping the thread organizied, you often have to wade though the entire thread to keep up to date. With a thread with +200 posts even if you wanted to it's a huge effort to do that. Even in the most complex of topics, they can be broken down a couple bullet points and approx a paragraph each to elaborate. There's also 'bad' advise that doesnt get edited away on topics ('bad' as in it may simply be the case that it was the right thing at the moment but there was eventually a more 'correct' method discovered later and the original 'bad' one is still reposted for whatever reason)
I could copy the posts onto the wiki verbaitm, but you really should have the poster's permission, what if the poster isnt active? It would be a bad idea to paraphrase advise/guides without context, what if you remove an important small detail. The right way to be to frequent the device and get context, but that triples the amount of work to do so properly.
It's no secret that there's always users that refuse to read topics and simply skip straight to posting repeat questions. Short pages with clear instructions are much easier to recommend then having them read though dozens and dozens of posts (which they skipped as they posted without reading in the first place)
Discussions dont really work on a wiki, esp one without consistant-repeat (or even repeat) editors. There's a fair amount of edits for various devices, but there are obviously more devices then editors. Lets walk though it: I want to make an edit, do I post it on the topic's talk page? Short of doing so on wikipiedia proper on a popular change, you wont recieve much feedback.
Do you make a post on each of their device's forums? XDA has sub-forums for each device, but not really a sub-forum for the family itself (back to the SGS/SGS2, there's the main device's subforum and each varient's subforum but none for the entire family, i think) That means making dozens of posts to talk about each major change.
What if it's an old device such as the winmo devices? The HTC HD2 is the only one left on the active part of the xda forums, because it's obviously not just a winmo device now. You're going to have to wait a very long time as they naturally only get a couple posts a month now.
Just as much, unless a mod/admin states to the contrary, you can always assume Wikipedia:Be Bold is implied to apply. I honestly have no issue if my edits are reverted if they are constructive reverts, as that's how wikis work.
If anyone has a issue with the edits I make, you're welcome to discuss it with me and hopefully we'll find a middle road.
Also I've made a reply on User_talkaveShaw#Page Name & Categories (as a fun note: & is translated to _.26_ in links while / isnt, though mediawiki has no issue with either of them, though you cannot directly use & in page names while you can use /) You should read it if the critisim is directed towards me.
tl;dr prove me wrong, Be Bold, help make the wiki better
Edit: HTC_HD2 - NexusHD2 ICS CM9 FAQ is an excellent example of why things should be on the wiki as articles instead of just merely links to a thread. It's about 3 pages of topic points and contains the majority of the topic points instead of having to read 225 (currently) pages to get the same info. (Also, just as much if I inadvertently remove valid content, revert/add it back! That was not my intention, everyone makes mistakes. The xda wiki is pretty well off in that it has little/no intentional vanadalism, you can always assume an edit is in good faith, I dont recall more then 1-2 legitamitely bad edits in nearly a year)
I've asked someone to look at Request 1.
I'm not sure what can be done about Request 2, if people don't want to maintain it, we can't make then
Thanks!
I dont really expect req 2 to be fullfilled in any real manner. Just pointing it out.
Added request 3: enable subpages on main namespace
TheManii said:
Added request 3: enable subpages on main namespace
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Our server admin has told me this has been done.
Dave
I can confirm it's on now, all the subcatagorized pages seem to be working great now
TheManii said:
I can confirm it's on now, all the subcatagorized pages seem to be working great now
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Thanks
Dave