Have to see how batteries will hold up - Windows Phone 7 General

Have to see how batteries will hold up - Windows Phone 7 General

I think they concept they have taken seems like a good approach. They are basically saying you don't need to have a separate zune, cell phone, and gaming device(ds or psp) when they have it rolled up into one nice package for you called the Windows 7 phone. I am hoping that they pay close attention to the battery life. I would not want a very feature rich phone that needs an extended battery right out of the gate like some phones in the past have been.

Since the UI is locked down, and there aren't any widgets, it should perform very well compared to Android.

Related

Is the desire for me?

I currently have the HD2, and whilst it's a great phone it's starting to annoy me with how many glitches there are, and how many times it crashes and I have to reset it. I have all the cabs running to prevent this such as memmaid, but it does drive me mad sometimes. The other thing is the lack of apps, having come from the iphone. The 2 things I absolutely love about the HD2 though is the gorgeous home screen (the reason I haven't even looked at windows 7 for it, sad but true) and the size of the screen.
What I would like to know is if you can get the home screen of the Desire to look as stunning as the HD2, what features does the desire have over the HD2, and how good the apps are on android phones? Can you get similar apps to that of the iphone like yell.com, ebay apps etc as well as games? Would I miss the larger screen?
I'm toying between the desire, and waiting to see what the iphone 4g is like when it is released, but they would have to make a lot of improvements on the iphone for me to consider it. I would very much be interested in the Sprint HTC Evo 4G but it appears as though it won't be available in the UK

I come from hd2, now im very happy with desire, all its working as desired and no cabs needed

I was happy HD2 owner. Switched to Desire. I see it this way:
HD2:
- unstable, after 8 years of developing WM (thx microsoft).
- manufacturers mistake causes most devices to develop a "ligter spots" on the screen due the digitizer is coliding with actual display.
- Soft plastic body it deforms on impact.
- laggy touch imput
-+ Is big with BIG screen
+ ActiveSync - working with no problem !
+ multitasking - multitasking - multitasking - multitasking
+ very easily customizable (WM)
+ independent on internet connection (WM)
+ most needet tools alredy integrated in stock rom (file explorer,task manager etc.) = fully usable out of the box.
Desire:
- 5mpix camera makes worse photos then HD2. its like 70% of HD2´s quality.
- only one diode.
- unusable withou internet connection (you wont be able to install anything without downloading at least some file explorer)
- battery compartment doors are stupid and they will be damaged when sim card is exchanged oftenly.
- faulty detection of headphones!!! most regular headphones will work bud no Reproductors !!! Any active HW on jack will cause Desire to act mad. Its TRS and TRRS detection problem (desire exlusive Iam afraid)
- Complicated synchronization (50% cases just wont sync), waiting for official HTC android 2.2
+ Speed of OS
+ stability is better then WM bus Iphone OS is still most stable.
+ Android OS (it is still new and under development, bud already lightyears ahead in front of WM)
+ Google Market lots of apps in one place.
+

snerkler said:
I would very much be interested in the Sprint HTC Evo 4G but it appears as though it won't be available in the UK
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
It would be rather pointless if it was, since it is a CDMA/WiMAX device and there are no networks in the UK that support either of these for telephony (though I believe there are some small WiMAX networks for local wireless broadband in places).
Regards,
Dave

sviftcz said:
+ multitasking - multitasking - multitasking - multitasking
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Why have this as a particular plus point for WinMo, when Android multitasks too?
Regards,
Dave

Just a thought:
I came from 3gs to desire and consider it better, actually so much better that it makes you wonder just what apple will come up with. Apple are used to having a market to itself and a widely accepted "best" phone of its kind. That has been blown away by the desire (my opinion) but I do wonder just how good the 4g will be against such competiton as the desire on android 2.2. I just cannot imagine apple accepting defeat by releasing something only as good or not quite as good as the desire. It would mean a uturn on flash and maybe some new tricks. I bought my phones outright just in case apple come up with an absolute show stopper BUT it will have to make the desire look like an abacus before I'd pay the mad iphone tariff's again. Android is just to good to be slung over a barrel by apple's controlling ways and prices. Bottom line, I'm fasicinated what the 4g will offer but suspect not enough, though its only a week or so to being announced so watch the "unveiling first" then you'll most likely go get a desire. If we were months away from unvieling I'd say just get a desire. I have only one negative of susbstance to offer about the desire and that is battery life. If you used only as a phone and text then of course its fine but using its capabilities I find its worse than iphone on battery but I can live with it via usb chargers in home, car and work.

Apple?
Apple is out of the game.
All they ever try and do is put bigger storage, and a slightly better camera to make a fatter phone.
It's the same old since the start of the iPod.
They won't come up with anything new, and the whole idea behind the iPhone OS is what holds it back.
As long as you stick with an OS that insists that access to everything is done by shortcuts on your homescreen (and yet still not multitask the way it should), it's going nowhere.
They're trying to do the Windows/Mac thing without the menus.
Look at it this way. I don't have a single icon on the desktop of any of my computers, but still I can access anything I want just as simply, or even see what I want without clicking anything. (a la android + widgets).
Apple made it so you can't see a thing on your home screen, except maybe the current date if you have your calendar icon set to display it.
I speak from experience here, I started with WinMo, and couldn't handle it, I moved to the iPhone and it was a heap of junk, gave it away (free) weeks after spending several hundred on it. Moved to the Xperia, WinMo again, it was nice, but still lacking, even with developing WinMo 6.5 ROMs etc. Then I came to the HTC Hero, amazing phone, best ever I'd say. Then came along the Desire and blew it out of the water. Lets just say, I'm Android for life now, until the next big startup comes and knocks it off its podium.
That being said, if you like customization without the trouble, the nexus is also a nice device, if somewhat slightly less capable than the desire, but it will always get the latest first.

I tried the desire out instore the other day, and I have to say I prefer the HD2. The Desire has some nice features, but I wasn't wowed by it. I've read reviews about how good screen is and I have to say I was very disappointed. Yes it was more colourful/vibrant than the HD2, but it's nowhere near as crisp imo.
I'm not wowed by the new specs of the iphone 4 either, it's a slight improvement on the 3Gs, but not exactly groundbreaking and only just catching up with other phones out there.
So I'm at a lost as to which phone to get, the only other phone that looks interesting is the Samsung Galaxy S, but I haven't tried one yet, and it's only on vodafone.
I think I'll just keep the HD2 and go on a sim only contract until something takes my fancy

alias_neo; said:
Apple is out of the game.
All they ever try and do is put bigger storage, and a slightly better camera to make a fatter phone.
It's the same old since the start of the iPod.
They won't come up with anything new, and the whole idea behind the iPhone OS is what holds it back.
As long as you stick with an OS that insists that access to everything is done by shortcuts on your homescreen (and yet still not multitask the way it should), it's going nowhere.
They're trying to do the Windows/Mac thing without the menus.
Look at it this way. I don't have a single icon on the desktop of any of my computers, but still I can access anything I want just as simply, or even see what I want without clicking anything. (a la android + widgets).
Apple made it so you can't see a thing on your home screen, except maybe the current date if you have your calendar icon set to display it.
I speak from experience here, I started with WinMo, and couldn't handle it, I moved to the iPhone and it was a heap of junk, gave it away (free) weeks after spending several hundred on it. Moved to the Xperia, WinMo again, it was nice, but still lacking, even with developing WinMo 6.5 ROMs etc. Then I came to the HTC Hero, amazing phone, best ever I'd say. Then came along the Desire and blew it out of the water. Lets just say, I'm Android for life now, until the next big startup comes and knocks it off its podium.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
LOL.

going back...

currently with ATT and i'm available for upgrade in early July. and seriouslly considering going back to the Iphone. especially with the new iphone 4 and it's specs. unless ATT manages to pull a monkey out their **** and actually get a NICE and usable android phone. and i'm pretty sure i could talk an ATT in-store rep to get a manager to sign off on even early upgrade date. they're pretty flexible here.
i loved the Tilt 2 when i first got it...as with most users. i tried to stay away from hardSPLing and adding custom ROMs but the stock was just TOO slow and buggy. figured custom roms would help. negative...although faster and less bloated..they presented even more bugs, freeze ups, and random issues. and YES i've been through and tried out more than enough ROMs..all Task 29ing before each ROM. i've never had so many issues with previous phones. hell i've never had to reboot previous phones period.
Windows Mobile phones are just as buggy as their desktop counterparts..Windows XP, Vista, and 7.
and you Apple hating / Iphone bashing die hard WinMO and android fans..gotta admit the specs on the new iphone 4 are pretty damn impressive. i dislike the iphone OS...even as smooth as it is. but with multitasking now implemented, HD video recording, video editing right on the phone, facetime chat, an LCD display 4x better than phones out on the market now, larger battery and longer battery life, and a tougher sturdier design instead of the curvey plastic.
i know the wifey is ditching her Blackberry Curve 8900 for the new iphone when it comes out. so i'll have a chance to play with it before making a final decision. keeping my fingers crossed for a new android phone though, or get the iphone..hang on to the tilt 2 and keep an eye out on the android porting project till it's fully functional (sound, camera, battery meter...everything) on the Rhodium, and have the best of both worlds.
till than..i'm just gonna have to put up with this phone for another couple more weeks.

See ya!
My TP2 has been running a custom rom since DAY 1 without any headaches.
If iPhone is for you, go for it. Nothing wrong with it, but for my needs it
has features I would never use. I use mine for a TELEPHONE, IM, email
a photo here and there, and the weather radar. If you are into music,
heavy video and a locked down you do what we say OS, then the iPhone
is for you.

Bugger that!!!!!! I'll take the music, heavy video and an OS that's completely customisable, easy to get apps for that don't require me to use the iphone's store and a good all round phone...
There are plenty of good, free apps available for the WM OS but using Ipstore its a bloody nightmare. Especially in Oz where the data plans generally require you to give up extranneous body parts and take out a lease with the devil on your soul...

having a rhodium, BB curve and iPhone 3G myself i have to support anyone that is switching to the iPhone.
it is by far the best device on the market... and the gap gets bigger with iP4.
there are some good points in using a BB, but the OS looks/feels like 1994 and even the 3rd party software needs you to be an all out poweruser to get used to it.
WinMo still needs a stylus. period. it looks ugly and is buggy as hell. almost nothing in WM 6.5 feels well designed/crafted. tbh, using it (including most 3rd party software) feels like using linux systems of the late 90's, but without most of the benefits.
well, i use my rhodium for business purposes, cause we have an all out MS-software system at work. but the day i get a chance to use an iphone at work (ie. the day they pay for one + the data plan), i'll switch.
android is without any use atm, but it has a high potential...maybe the highest of all current systems.
choosing a smartphone for me looks like this atm: iPhone >> BB >> WinMo > Andriod
choosing a work smartphone is a lil different: iPhone >> WinMo > BB (no Andriod)
i know there are a lot of different opinions, but this is my point of view and i have a lot of good arguments for every bit of it.
PS: WP7 will not run existing software (afaik) + wont run on any current device. the end of the WinMo platform... welcome andriod!

WP7 owners, love it, hate it, or ...

Unlike those of us in the US, others can buy Win Phone 7 devices. So what do you think?

I have not tested it yet as mine is arriving shortly.
I think that it does look good and that Microsoft has the right idea.
The only issues that I can see with it is the SDK limitations and the general os limitations.

i love it, it has it's limitation but it will get better.

Used an HD7 for about 30 minutes in the T-Mobile store here. Smooth like butter, and it has 16GB storage.
I'm definitely leaning towards getting one.
Finally an OS that performs like one should on this hardware. Can't even imagine what performance will be like on next-gen hardware.

Up until 28th November I was an Android Fanboy - G1 when it was launched, Desire as an Upgrade.
I now actually prefer Wp7 to Android and love the fact I went and bought a HD7. My desire is now untouched, I put it on Ebay

i just played a bit with one at a t-mobile store... (htc mozart)
very smooth handling in every condition
i dont like pinch to zoom in any browser i used before (opera, safari, whatever android has...) but i like it in wp7 very much
but then there are the known limitations and some of them i realy dislike...
if there was a way to use wp7 device as mass storage my decision would be clear pro wp7...

Had it for 3 days, love it.
Blazingly fast and super solid - yes a few things are unavailable at the moment but its only been out for a matter of days.
Genuinely excited for the future of this OS.

Thanks for the replies. Sounds great. I was hoping to move away from AT&T but, if the WP7 devices are good maybe I will stay with them.
BTW, does anyone have a standalone Zune and care to compare the functionality of the WP7? I have a Zune 80 and love the Zune Marketplace and Zune client.

Love it as well. I miss the the messaging apps available on iOS and Android and some apps are a bit slow to launch, but it is a polished OS especially for a 1.0 with a lot of attention to detail taken on it. In a way it makes Android look like a toy, Aesthetics wise, and it is much smoother natively.

agreed with the ones above, had my HTC Trophy for over 2 days now and i'm really liking it. I see the Trophy as the base model for all Windows Phones. There is no stand out feature in this phone at all, it's all minimum spec, but it works... exceptionally! Games are a little slow on loading, but that's ok, the gameplay itself is fine. This limitation is due to the use of microSD (which you'll probably see in the other HTC phones). But I don't plan on voiding my warranty, and my carrier throws an extra year on top, so i have 2 years warranty. I don't use it for music all that much as i'm more of a radio listener... and let me tell you, when i fired up the radio for the first time this morning... man was it a really nicely designed radio. Simple, only get a bar with the radio frequency on top, and you just scroll left/right, and find the frequency you want. Favourite it, and done. SO NICE!

hmm looks like im really gonna have to get this lol

all good comments.. i suppose to have my HD7 with me right now but my friend could not pick it up in singapore for me... now i have to wait till dec 1st as i cant make it to SG till then..

I LOVE IT. its that simple. There is a few very tiny glitches but i had that with android blackberry and sare i say it ios as well. I do have a couple of poiunts for a few people that moan about some missing features though.
Mass storage - why oh why would you want to use your phone for this i don't get it? the memory inside is for the phone not your pc. Get a memory stick they cost about £20 and will sit on your keyring they are faster and easier to use.
Flash - this is coming very soon adobe and Microsoft have confirmed this.
Copy paste - as above (i suspect the January update for both though flash may come as its own download)
Multitasking - just a battery drain and all the main features do this anyway, the phone is quick at swapping between apps. I don't get why you would want to multi-task beyond what it already does if anyone can give me a good example i will retract that but so far its just "cos we like it that we can" i personally prefer a battery that lasts unlike the desire.
removable storage - once again why would you want this? I have an idea don't buy a load of small cards just get one good one. You can argue that the on board amounts given at launch are poor (i to stated this) BUT, America will get the focus this can be upgraded so to can the dell. The HD7 can be also if you don't mind getting under the back cover. I suspect as with the hd7 we will find others. So there are options even for the most data intensive. Your phone is not a memory stick people.
I personally think wp7 has it right esp for a brand new os that has not even had, dare i call the January update this, service pack 1. I don't like to say i will never touch things again because the world is constantly changing but i will say for now i am so glad i sold my desire and got a hd7 it beats anything else hands down.

I just realized i was so busy fending the so called downsides i forgot to look at why wp7 is the best.
Xbox live - this is so good it makes my nuts tingle though it was a lil slow at first once it has had chance to sync everything up it is amazing. I can see all my avatar stuff in 3d i can see my mates avatars in 3d i can compare gamer scores, i can earn achievements on games i can send messages to my live friends and see what they are doing. Basically all the same stuff i can do on my xbox but on a phone. Plus they will soon have multilayer games not just turn by turn and intergration into actual xbox games.
Zune - By far and away the best music/media experience you can get. Makes iphone look old and rubbish. I have loved Zune since i got my zune hd imported last year. Zune software is easier to use then itunes. It is far better at managing your media and is so good at getting the track data. Plus unlike itunes if it cant find it automatically you can just find it yourself easy as and make sure all the tracks have the right names with a no fuss at all. Put it this way my itunes on my mac has about 80% of the right art my zune has 100% (and for about 8 months i had to use the mac as my main pc due to frying my motherboard so it is nothing to do with me not careing about getting it sorted).
Hubs/live tile - just genius i hardly use my facebook app as i don't need to my friends are asy to contact and find and my pictures are all in one place. Yeah you can collect data together on android but until you have used a wp7, and i do say if your unsure go to the store and play, its hard to explain why its so much better but it just is. updates are right there on the home screen and even the lock screen.
Speed/transactions - This is a zippy os everything is smooth and looks sexy, this isnt a big point for many people i know but, there is no better feeling then when showing someone an email or a text or anything on your phone and it flys there but at the same time looks like something from minority report.

The phone is fantastic. The system is very smooth! The zune feature wit zune pass is great. One thing though, notification sounds for txt and email are very, very quiet (HD7). I can hardly hear them

robart76 said:
The phone is fantastic. The system is very smooth! The zune feature wit zune pass is great. One thing though, notification sounds for txt and email are very, very quiet (HD7). I can hardly hear them
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
have you updated the audio controller from htc as it may be coincidence but i thought it was quieter before i did that.

lumpaywk said:
Multitasking - just a battery drain and all the main features do this anyway, the phone is quick at swapping between apps. I don't get why you would want to multi-task beyond what it already does if anyone can give me a good example i will retract that but so far its just "cos we like it that we can" i personally prefer a battery that lasts unlike the desire.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I disagree. There are cases where multitasking would help, one area would be instant messaging. Also, I have looked at most reviews out there and battery life is on par with similarly specced Android devices. For example, the HD7 vs. EVO/Desire HD. Even my developer WP7 devices battery lasts around the same time as my Captivate.
Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I897 using XDA App

There is no denying the fact that multitasking would help in many cases. I am glad that MS never said they wouldn't allow 3rd party aps to multitask. I am sure it's already in development... may be being tested as we speak

Went from HTC to Samsung Focus, so far i do love the smoothness and speed. Active tiles are a huge plus and can see where this can be beneficial in various ways. Only 'major' things needed is tethering or turning the phone into a WiFi Hotspot (and would like bluetooth rSAP support).

emuneee said:
I disagree. There are cases where multitasking would help, one area would be instant messaging. Also, I have looked at most reviews out there and battery life is on par with similarly specced Android devices. For example, the HD7 vs. EVO/Desire HD. Even my developer WP7 devices battery lasts around the same time as my Captivate.
Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I897 using XDA App
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You're wrong.
With Push Messaging, you get you IMs without the app even running. Multitasking IM applications is a huge waste of battery.
Do you even have a clue what you're talking about?
Also, the HD7 has a weak battery in it. It's around 1230 mAh, IIRC. Most decent phones have 1500 mAh batteries in them. Check that before you make a comparison. Also, use patterns on the two phones may not be identical. It's almost impossible to conduct a decent test for battery life outside of a controlled environment.

[Q] How good is Win phone 7?

Its this Windows better than other mobile OS?
Why?
Why I have to choose Win phone 7 instead of Android?
Can some one tell me please?
thanks

For me, one sentence will answer all...because we want to try something new and fresh.
However,the usability and satisfaction towards the OS or device are depends on your personal preference.
IMHO, I'm not really satisfied with this new OS,it is still in premature stage.

Much better user experience than WM and Android. More restrictions than both though, but most people aren't affected by this.

WP7 is smooth, clean and simple. It's generally very fast and elegant in operation. But right now it has bugs...at least for the pre-nodo devices. It currently lacks the higher-end hardware associated with the latest Androids and the iPhone, such as no front camera or dual-cpu. It doesn't use a plug & play expandable memory card...though you can expand the system memory with a little complexity on some devices...without voiding the warranty.

MO, its nice and fast with good apps. Big and easy to the eyes fonts.
But the weak point it gave you the feeling the phone is tied down as if you rent instead of owning it e.g. cant transfer documents to pc(not everyone have sharepoint),
no backups on anything(apps with user data or sms..anything) shud the phone needs to be reset or repaired.
If you are a patience type, then waiting for updates will not be an issue for you.

DatDereX1 said:
Much better user experience than WM and Android. More restrictions than both though, but most people aren't affected by this.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Well, if you're going to confuse User INTERFACE with User EXPERIENCE, than your post is correct. Unfortunately, you are confused. The Experience goes beyond the interface. I'm not going to put my huge list in yet another thread. I'll leave it at that.
@ OP:
In the end it depends on your requirements and how you use your phone. The way I'd rank them, depending on what you need most:
Phone/Battery Life: Nokia (Symbian) > Blackberry
Media: WP7 > iOS (Phones with Bigger Screens, Zune Pass/Zune, etc.)
Gaming: iOS > WP7 > Android (Too many Android games are of terrible quality/bug-riddled).
Browsing: Android > iOS (More Browser Choices, bigger screens, 4G devices, etc.)
Communication (SMS/MMS/IM/eMail and Business Communications): Symbian > Blackberry > Android (WP7 would be in last place here, IMO)
Business User: Windows Mobile > Symbian > Blackberry (BB loses points due to needing BES for decent Exchange support - WM gains points for supporting every Exchange Policy and having Office Mobile 2010)
If having Voice Nav is a huge thing than Android > Symbian > Windows Mobile
If you're an Appaholic: iOS > Android > Blackberry
Since I know where you're probably (even if secretly) coming from, I'll just cut to the chase here... WP7 isn't as good as Android. The User Interface is better and it performs better in many cases (this is device dependent, to a large degree), but the level of services integration in addition to the functionality drop-off going from Windows Mobile to Windows Phone 7 is just not good when compared to other platforms. Microsoft failed to capitalize on their Windows Live services with WP7 (billed as a consumer device) and then they failed harder by locking down the platform so tight that the development community can't even help them close these gaps.
WP7 is a necessary step forward for Microsoft, but the platform is Beta in functionality and Release Candidate in User Experience. From what has been coming out of Microsoft, it also seems like nothing more than a transition platform. Don't get it until Mango releases to all carriers if you are coming from iOS or Android. You never know what the functionality gap is until you actually use this device on a daily basis. Using it for 20 minutes in a carrier store is not enough.
However, for those moving up from a feature phone and don't really want all the extra fluff of a true smartphone OS, then WP7 may suite them well...

MartyLK said:
WP7 is smooth, clean and simple. It's generally very fast and elegant in operation. But right now it has bugs...at least for the pre-nodo devices. It currently lacks the higher-end hardware associated with the latest Androids and the iPhone, such as no front camera or dual-cpu. It doesn't use a plug & play expandable memory card...though you can expand the system memory with a little complexity on some devices...without voiding the warranty.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
+1 on this.

N8ter said:
However, for those moving up from a feature phone and don't really want all the extra fluff of a true smartphone OS, then WP7 may suite them well...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Well, I personally moved from a "true smartphone OS" (WM) to iOS to WP7 with a couple of brief stops with Android, and it suits me very well. Because I can do more with it, and better, including work (which for me is primarily communication via email and checking/quick editing office documents). While I will 200% agree that WP7 isn't a "PC in your pocket" in terms of power/flexibility/features by any stretch of imagination, and it isn't a business powerhouse, whether and how platforms fit your specific needs is what matters. Each platform has its own specific bugs or quirks which you may not notice at all or they can turn your phone ownership into hell.

You're going to have the "hate it"s and the "love it"s, with a good mix of fanboys in the middle, so my advice is to get an actual device in your hands and play a while with it.
Read about its features and current limitations and if it fits your needs, it has the apps you require and you enjoy it, take it... I know I did.

Avandor said:
my advice is to get an actual device in your hands and play a while with it.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Actually, this is a crucially important piece of advice. As uniform as WP7 devices are, I had a very difficult time getting a phone for myself. My major problem with the current crop is miserable amount of storage. I had to go for a carrier branded Mozart to get at least 16GB, and while it wasn't SIM locked and doesn't cause too much hassle, I would advise that you avoid branded handsets if possible. You won't get any added value from them but updates will be delayed, among other things.

vangrieg said:
You won't get any added value from them but updates will be delayed, among other things.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
In some cases carrier locked models do come at cheaper prices, which is crucial to some people when choosing their phones.

scionXda said:
Its this Windows better than other mobile OS?
Why?
Why I have to choose Win phone 7 instead of Android?
Can some one tell me please?
thanks
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
IMO you are asking the question wrong. It's a bit like asking if a Hummer is a better car than a Prius? With no qualifiers you will get as many answers saying the Hummer as you get people saying the Prius.
Now, let me add some more information. I live in the country, have three dogs (who like going for drives), we get ****loads of snow in the winter and them side roads leading up to the property are not exactly prioritized when it comes to removing snow.
For me it (Hummer) definitely is, but for them there city folks probably not so much
If you'd like to add some more information about what you use your phone for, i.e. what is important to you - I'm sure we'll get you some good reasons why you should (or not) pick WP7.

N8ter said:
Well, if you're going to confuse User INTERFACE with User EXPERIENCE, than your post is correct. Unfortunately, you are confused. The Experience goes beyond the interface. I'm not going to put my huge list in yet another thread. I'll leave it at that.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
The interface is indeed better, and the user experience is also better in general. MUCH better than WM's user experience; you can't deny that.
Similar to how the iphone couldn't do nearly as much as WM when it was released, but the user experience was much better. Everything "just worked" as they say. Some people have issues with WP but most don't have or care about any. It "just works".

Windows Phone 7 is by far the best OS I have used.
Android is very laggy. I can't tell you how many times I went to answer a call and couldn't because my Android device wouldn't respond in time.
Interface is unmatched. Way better than anything Android or iOS has to offer.
iOS is a good OS if you have the latest hardware (iPhone4), but the interface kills it for me. It's very boring.
Gaming experience is really awesome on WP7. Love the XBox Live integration/achievements.
Mostly everything just works without a hitch.
There are still bugs... but as an early adopter, I couldn't be happier.

Having both I say choose Android but watch WP7 for the future.
Currently WP7 offers very little to the customers.
It has very easy and nice interface but equally boring and dull to be honest.
Almost every thing this device can do is limited, maybe besides Zune and Xbox.
If you don't care about any more advanced features WP7 may be for you.
After 3 months of liking it I couldn't stand it anymore.
Limitations driving me crazy, stupid inconsistencies in performance plus Interface which is just a little bit too primitive (even if it's so easy to use).
Many people wrote here alot about both OS'es. Almost everything has been said.
For me WP7 is a massive disappointment. I gave it huge credit, bought my WP7 device for cash in December. But honestly the current situation is simply unacceptable at all.
Crippled features + no support in most countries with Marketplace, Maps, Bing and native Keyboard. If I think of it now I see it's ridiculous.
WP7 definitely is something worth interest because MS has all the services to make a perfect ecosystem in every possible area and that may be amazing. That was one of the reasons I bought it. But they don't do it now at all. You can do 100 times more on any other platform.
I suppose WP7 may be big hit once Nokia will jump on the market and WP7 will be much more opened. I think after Mango update this can be better and better.
But not now. Apparently MS has huge problem with the upgrade system what is not positive. My device still can't be updated although preNoDo was OK.
So a really competitive and finished product can be available around beginning of next year. Not before and it's too long to wait for me - I buy device to do the job!
I guess current WP7 is like an advanced beta where MS has it's learning curve.
And regarding the fluidity I say - people tell myths here.
WP7 lags sometimes terribly and current Android interations are really snappy.

I had a iphone then a Desire HD (which I still have) and now a samsung omnia 7 16gb, I also have a Ipad 1 so have a good idea of all of the OS's. All three are good phones, and getting any of the 3 different OS you can't go wrong really.
However I am loving WP7 so far even with the little quirks, the UI is really awesome and I much prefer it to Android in that regard, I spent hours using launcher pro and icons and lock screen mods and was never happy with how it looked whereas WP7 does all i need on that front and beautifully.
Also it's a lot smoother than android, though to be fair Android is as smooth as you need, the very little lags and jerks you get when scrolling are not big deals and I didn't actually notice them till I had both phones side by side, not sure why people make such a big deal about tiny jerkiness sometimes in the scrolling on Android.
IOS was a little too bland for me and I really wanted a better notification system as well as a bigger screen 3.5 was too small for web pages and gaming, though the amount of good quality apps was amazing, however I had my iphone for 3 years and I really only had about 20 apps, A few games to play when really bored and not at my PC.
Zune is awesome, million times better than Itunes, never used it before WP7 but now I am hooked, will be going from the trial to a paid zune pass too, works very well the streaming.
I also am impressed with the gaming on WP7 some very cool games in the market place, just a pity they are normally a lot more expensive than what you get on the iphone or android.
So overall WP7 does what I need (email, calendar, phone calls, and music with the odd game) and in a beautiful UI, for some people it wont do what they want and that's fine but for me it's great.
The Desire HD isn't used much at all anymore and I will probably ebay it soon. Really hope WP7 gets bigger as in my opinion it deserves a place in the the market even at this early stage of it's life

It completely baffles me as to why people continue to point out that WinPhone doesn't use dual cpus as though it has some negative affect on the phone or it's experience, even going as far as to compare it to Android phones which do use it. With it's first generation processor it still outshines newer Android devices. Performance? WP7 outperforms those dual cpu Android devices. Battery life, as so many have argued is the biggest positive? WP7 still gets better battery life. Also, how many people actually use front facing cameras? Really? I know quite a few people with MyTouchs and iPhone4s who have never done a video chat, and they've owned the devices since launch.
Just had to get that out there.

Really the only things where it suffers are in the app department....once the OS gets it legs(another year or so) it will be on par if not better than iOS. It doesn't beat out the Iphone 4(definitely better than the 3G and 3GS) and some android phones. I say some because Android is highly dependent on the phone you get. With Windows Phone you can pretty much go with any phone and they all work well. Im on my 3rd month with it and I still love it. Ive been through sony android phones, the iphone 3GS and a bada phone as well.

FiyaFleye said:
With it's first generation processor it still outshines newer Android devices.
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Click to collapse
Absolutely not true, actually just the opposite.

scionXda said:
Its this Windows better than other mobile OS?
Why?
Why I have to choose Win phone 7 instead of Android?
Can some one tell me please?
thanks
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
it's ok .

What makes the Nexus better than the iPhone?

You guys are dropping some serious cash on the Nexus, and for serious cash, I expect there must be serious reasons. What makes the Nexus better than the 4S, for you? I don't just want to hear blanket statements like "more customizability," I'm looking for specific things that effect how you use your phone day-to-day, in a positive way. (hey, it rhymes)
I don't own a GN, but here's some reasons I can think of switching:
-I can turn off annoying animations
-hi-res screen, shows more content
-bigger screen
-no physical buttons
-I can turn off the lock screen
-loads webpages faster
-slightly better browser tabs
-widgets. They'd be slightly helpful
-Flash, for when I need it
-file system. This is kinda crippled now, but whatever.
-better YouTube app
-better Gmail support
-better Google maps
I figure I'll mention the cons, too...
-worse camera
-not as smooth
-no 100% reliable, native syncing for my photos and music
-no comparable suite to iWorks
-less app selection
-bad battery life
-no good solution for security if I lose my phone. Find My iPhone is pretty sweet.
What about you? I'm hoping to hear about some things I didn't think about. Part of me really wants to get the Nexus.

because it's not apple. Setting up apps and.screen is lot better over the good old setup. Hw acceleration finally. Bigger screen. Not apple. Higher res. Better sound. And I get great battery life. What you talking about Willis?
And the no. 1 reason is dev support. They pick up where Google and Samsung don't and then some. And some more. Thanks devs without you guys we'd eat more apples.
Sent from my Galaxy Nexus using xda premium

I haven't had an issue with battery life ever since phone started coming with micro usb. One of the reasons I didn't buy an iPhone is the proprietary usb, with GN (or any other android phone) everywhere you go has a charger.
That and it's a phone with a large screen, I'm not going to quibble over a few hours difference in battery life. It either lasts a month on 1 charge or I need a charger everywhere I go....
My main beef with iPhone is the connectivity, I need iTunes and not just on any computer but an authorised one. I use a lot of computers so that's out...
Apps, camera, OS, battery life its all the same more or less. Like comparing Mercedes to BMW.
The other feature I can't live without is Google Navigation, even though you can download an app on iPhone that does the same, having it fully integrated with Google Map is very useful. I use Google Maps like Yellow Pages now....
The search is also a lot more useful with ICS (wont be GN only feature soon) as it combines searching for apps/music/files on your phone with google search.
All this will be on any ICS phone/tablet, not just GN. So it's not really GN vs iPhone, its ICS vs iOS5.
Oh and another nice feature is having multiple accounts in Market. So if you want your wife/girlfriend to have the same purchased app/game you don't have to buy it twice.

I won't go into a device comparison, but here's what I like about the Nexus/Android:
- Super Amoled HD Screen
- Pentaband & Unlocked
- Widgets and customizability
- Scrolling and/or Live Wallpaper
- Replaceable Battery
- Faster data speeds on AT&T (For my location)
- The best web browsing experience on a mobile device...PERIOD. If you goto Settings->Labs and select Quick Controls and Fullscreen...it's a whole different experience. Full HD screen is used to browse and it's buttery smooth
- I prefer ICS's Task Manager MUCH MUCH better than iOS. It's quick to hit a button and swipe on the android vs. double table, hit small x's and scroll.
- Voice Guided Directions via Google Maps (Improved over previous versions)
- Face Unlock
- Better youtube
- Camera isn't as good as the iPhone, but IMO the app and shutter speed make up for it.
- Syncs beautifully with iTunes with iSyncr app!
- People always bring up selection of apps, or lack thereof as a bad thing. While there are some titles missing from the market, there are apps available that you would never be able to download on the app store. For example mp3 downloads, bit torrent remotes, etc.
- Type as you speak voice recognition
- I find the battery life equal, if not better than the iPhone 4S
- Free mobile hotspot (Don't abuse her)
- NFC
- Built in data usage tracker and limiter. Perfect for those on data caps. Also displays what apps are hogging
- Notice a killer app on the Market only to find out it's garbage after the purchase? 15 min refund window!
Don't like compared to the iPhone...
- Build quality is good but the quality of materials could be better
- Speaker sucks
- Front facing camera may have more pixels, but looks like crap compared to the 4s
- I miss iTunes Match, iCloud and Photostream
Don't get me wrong, the 4S is a sweet device and I've used a ton of Android phones in the past, but the Nexus w/ICS is a whole different ballgame. My Nexus and iPad 2 are a match made in heaven.

I switched from an iPhone 4S to a Galaxy Nexus (and a Galaxy Note between).
First of all I like Apple products, I use an iMac and a MacBook Air for work and have owned iPhones, iPods and iPads. They are usually well designed and do the job at least as well as competitors and yes there is a premium to pay for that and I have always thought that worth paying extra for.
But for me the iPhone 4S was a major disappointment. I had seen some of the renderings of possible designs and they looked exciting but what we got was a revamp of the iPhone 4 with new notifications and Siri.
I still bought one as I like to have the latest tech but after you realise that Siri is a gimmick that last 10 minutes and is then redundant and the pull down notification system has been perfected by Android 100 phones ago, then the same old IOS niggles surfaced.
For me the first time I used the Galaxy Nexus I thought 'this is better'. ICS is smooth and runs quickly on the Nexus out of the box. I have owned virtually all the top smartphones and my one gripe about Android is that to get the very best out of the phone I have to visit XDA and start updating and tweaking.
My main reasons for switching away from the iPhone were lack of Flash support and screen size. So I bought a Galaxy Note and was blown away but the size was just a little too large and when I read up about the Nexus I just had to have one. I can wait a month or so for Flash but otherwise I don't think I have ever been happier with a phone.

Yumunum said:
You guys are dropping some serious cash on the Nexus, and for serious cash, I expect there must be serious reasons. What makes the Nexus better than the 4S, for you? I don't just want to hear blanket statements like "more customizability," I'm looking for specific things that effect how you use your phone day-to-day, in a positive way. (hey, it rhymes)
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Keep in mind that not everyone here is buying it outright for $600+, and keep in mind that a lot of people here wouldn't even consider an iPhone instead of Android in general. This post sounds a bit like flame bait, but I'll give you the benefit of the doubt.
My personal reasons are as follows:
Screen: Not just quality (AMOLED), but size. Ever since I had my Samsung Captivate, holding an iPhone has just felt wrong. Everything feels tiny on the iPhone, watching movies is a significantly worse experience etc.
OS: In a nutshell, I prefer Android to iOS. The notification system is better, the multitasking is better (especially in ICS), the OS gives me more options and doesn't hold my hand telling me I'll break my phone if I'm given any more freedoms.
Widgets: Falls in line with OS, but deserves its own category. Why the hell does iOS not have widgets yet? Why don't I have glanceable data on my homescreens such as weather, calendar, and RSS feeds? This is the killer app for me as far as Android is concerned. iOS simply does not compare.
iTunes: I hate it. Especially on PC. I don't like Apple's music format, I don't like being forced to sync content as opposed to drag and drop, and I don't like how iTunes on PC is so badly coded that it completely freezes up and becomes unresponsive while syncing. Something like iTunes should be optional at best.
TV out: the iPhone simply doesn't have it. Connecting my phone to my TV to output youtube videos, emulated SNES, PS1 etc. games, and pictures is a huge boon for the GN. Yes there are alternatives, no they are not as simple as "connect a cable and the picture literally pops up the next second".
General freedom: No emulators or inappropriate content on the iOS market. Yeah, I don't put porn on my phone, but the next guy may want to and he should be able to do so freely without a company scrutinizing his morals. The Android market allows virtually anything as long as it's legal.
Programming freedom: In the same vein as the above, iOS is extremely locked down. There are no custom ROMs, there's no system level tweaking.
As far as drawbacks go:
Camera: Let's face it. The iPhone 4S' camera is best in class. Yes the GN's is faster, but for sheer quality iPhone simply wins hands down.
Touch response: This one may be a bit subjective, but every time I pick up an iPhone I marvel a bit at how smooth it is. Yes ICS is smooth, but I don't feel that it's quite at the same level.
Applications: For sheer quantity, Android is getting there. Quality however, is just now starting to pick up. More triple A developers are starting to realize that Android is a force to be reckoned with, so this is one that will fix itself in time. For the time being however iOS' app selection is simply better.
GPS: Every iPhone I've tried locks instantaneously indoors to a 10-15 meter radius. Every Android phone takes 5 seconds to forever to do the same. It's a minor gripe at best since the GN's GPS is pretty good but it's still technically worse.
That's about all I've got. Also OP, you'll be pleased to know that Android also has a variation of "Find my iPhone". "Where's my Droid" does basically the same thing.

I thought of getting an iPhone but then I took an arrow to the knee
I don't own a GN, but here's some reasons I can think of switching:
-I can turn off annoying animations
-hi-res screen, shows more content
-bigger screen
-no physical buttons
-I can turn off the lock screen
-loads webpages faster
-slightly better browser tabs
-widgets. They'd be slightly helpful
-Flash, for when I need it
-file system. This is kinda crippled now, but whatever.
-better YouTube app
-better Gmail support
-better Google maps
I figure I'll mention the cons, too...
-worse camera
-not as smooth
-no 100% reliable, native syncing for my photos and music
-no comparable suite to iWorks
-less app selection
-bad battery life
-no good solution for security if I lose my phone. Find My iPhone is pretty sweet.
First off, I'll say that I don't own a G_Nex... yet. I have also thought long and hard about making the jump to the iphone and the other side but a few things have kept me back. And this is my experience with a Droid Incredible which came out early last year so It's based off of an old device with outdated software.
First, I hate iTunes, with a passion. If you like it, cool but I have had such a hard time moving all my media from windows media to itunes I finally gave my ipod away. I'm sure it's a much less stressful endeavor with a Mac but I don't have one of those either so... It just seems way easier to use windows media for me
As far as the camera. I haven't seen it in my hand but there are a few iPhone4s/G-Nex picture comparison and from what I can tell it doesn't look very different. I say that the SGN does have some advantages over the iPhone with the no-lag feature and panoramic photos but that is just opinion. my camera is outdated but like everyone says your not gonna blow up an 8mp photo to put on your wall, it just doesn't make sense.
I don't use it personally but HTC sense has an onlive service similar to Find My iPhone, but without an HTC device your options are limited to apps like Lookout Mobile Security which you can disable everything except for the GPS service so you don't have annoying popups everytime you download an app. I believe they are also apps that can wipe your phone remotely in case your worried about your personal info.
Although I feel like Sense on HTC is just as smooth as an iPhone I've seen the lag and jerkiness of other devices. that said, I think if you check out some YouTube vids of the G-Nex you'll see that there is nothing but smooth butter on 4.0
I agree as far as the battery life goes. sometimes I can go 6hrs before my phone dies but I've settled on the idea that I will need a charger with me everywhere I go work/home/school. But there is a big reason for this: Android does so many other things in the background compared to iPhone. widgets, live wallpapers, etc... look at the animations on a new HTC device with the 3D widgets. it takes a ton of battery to keep all that running and running smooth. Also with the introduction of 4G the battery technology just hasn't caught up with it yet. but give it time.
One thing I will say about iPhone is the quality of apps are way better than Android, but it will not be that way forever. app developers are wanting to make money and if they can expand to another platform they will. There are only a very few app devs that are brand loyal and there are more and more devs porting there apps to Android every day.
To me, Apple did a great job in making a great phone and marketing it to the masses when it first came out. However, there are still a ton of flaws in their ideals. they want to make things simpler but unless you already have a Mac you will struggle. And they don't want to change it because they know most people will get frustrated and just go buy a Mac which makes them more money. and that is something I can't get with.
last but not least I will ask, who's idea was it to design a phone incased in glass anyway? I mean the only way you could've made it anymore fragile is if you made all the componets inside the out of glass as well. I mean really?!

Bad battery life...it is really bad. and also bad reception.
Sent from my Galaxy Nexus using xda premium

native syncing for my photos and music - The camera app on the GN can auto matically sync your photos to google+ if you want it to. Also google music can sync your music from the cloud thus meaning you dont have gig's and gig's of storage taken up on your phone.

First of all, generally speaking the main reason that pulled me away from Apple (I had a 3GS) and towards Android was widgets. It might be a minor thing for most people, but I really really love having them on my screen. It just makes things so much easier and faster to accomplish.
Now, focussing on the Galaxy Nexus specifically, the biggest plusses for me where those two:
- The combination of a large AMOLED-screen and the top-notch resolution which takes care of all the "Pentile"-drama that was going on.
- Direct updates through Google (I know, it's the same with Apple, but no other current Android handset offers this, and since your question aimed at why we spend so much money on the GN: This is the main reason why I picked the GN over a Moto or an HTC)
And that's basically it. Mind you, I was almost going to buy the Moto RAZR instead of the Nexus, because I am not a fan of handsets made entirely of plastic shells. But in the end I dismissed the Razr, mainly because of the "Software Update"-reason mentioned above. I could have lived with the lower-res display.
Of course, there are dozens of other reasons why I pick Android over iOS (open platform, costumizability, direct filesystem-access, etc. etc. blah blah), but you probably know them already anyway, so I'm not gonna repeat here once again
Both Android and iOS have their advantages and disadavantages, my take on this is that you should first decide which ECOSYSTEM is better suited for your personal needs and usecases, and after that decide on the actual hardware you're going to buy. Getting a new phone is quickly done, making everything run after an OS transition is much more of a headache (starting with the money one spent on all the apps that become rendered useless the moment you change sides)

only things I miss from my iphone 4 so far are
battery life
quick gps locking
HBO GO!

Screen is beautifull. I just got mine and i Love IT!!
Sent from my Galaxy Nexus using XDA App

Yumunum said:
I figure I'll mention the cons, too...
-worse camera - Want a better camera, by a SLR, its a phone remember...
-not as smooth - No i find it smooother
-no 100% reliable, native syncing for my photos and musicPersonal preference, i find the syncing very good for mail, photos, contacts, music. The Music sync infact is amazing. I can access my music collection on ANY flash enable browser!
-no comparable suite to iWorks Really, your going to work on the 4.6" screen on documents, spreadsheets? buy a galaxy note, galaxy 10.1 or if you want iWorks, buy an Ipad or Mac!
-less app selection But also the app market is managed by the apple sheep so you actually have access to more apps which are banned on the apple store on the android market
-bad battery life Manage it better then! Its because you can customize everything on an android battery can drain so quickly, if you could do the same on an iphone as you can on an android im sure the iphone wouldnt last 10 hours!
-no good solution for security if I lose my phone. Find My iPhone is pretty sweet. Google an alternative.... like https://market.android.com/details?id=com.mango.findmyphone&hl=en. Also you can encrypt your phone, which is stronger than any solution done by apple at the moment
.
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Click to collapse
Come on, really its down to personal preference. Every pro can be argued with a con, and vice versa
A big plus for me is accessing the app store in a browser!

I'm unclear why the OP said we were dropping serious cash for the nexus, and then proceeded to ask why it's better than the 4S, they are the same price, so what gives?

I'll be the odd one out, this is why I sold my Galaxy Nexus and kept my iPhone 4S:
- I find iOS notifications to be better. Sure, swap to discard is a lot better than the tiny "Clear" button on iOS, but being able to see pending notifications on the lockscreen is a lot better than having to reach up and pull down the list. I never managed to find a working solution to get the same function on ICS. Also iOS categorizes them per app, which I like. I also love push notifications and there's really just one twitter app that does it on Android, and its just not a very good app.
- Browsing. Sorry, but I find the ICS browser to not be very good. Sure, it's fast, but Google still treats pages like a desktop browser and text is TINY when zoomed out. iOS picks up what text is important and increases its size so it's readable on most websites without having to zoom in. Also, double tapping to zoom on Android zooms to the general area you want, but will usually cut off text or images. iOS somehow manages to fit the window exactly to the paragraph you want.
- Battery life. Yes, the 4S is famous for not lasting very long, but at least I don't have to worry about what colors im displaying on it because white will burn the battery out faster than black. With SAMOLED (I've had a Galaxy S, Galaxy S 2 and the Nexus) I always found myself worrying about using apps with mostly a black background.
- Screen. I want to lick the Galaxy Nexus screen, really, it looks amazing. Except when I look at slight dark pictures, where the extreme contrast and black levels will degrade and oversaturate colors. Also PenTile, while less noticeable is still there and makes text look horrible at small sizes. Watching HD video on it was an orgasmic experience, but I honestly never watch movies or series on my phone so I just wouldn't have taken advantage of it.
- Speaker. Its bad, really bad, and positioned in a place where setting the phone on a sofa or any other soft surface will muffle it. Volume+ on the market fixes the problem mostly, but still sounds like a low quality speaker.
- Apps. I love the ICS UI, I love how the google apps look on the GNexus, but I HATE how most third party apps look and function on ICS. Yes, I realize this will change in time, but just picking the iPhone and opening Tweetbot or Whatsapp and seeing how much smoother they were compared to similar apps on ICS made me angry.
- Camera. Photos look pretty good in daylight, but it breaks apart easily when light is low. Mushy colors, no sharpness. I love the 4S camera.
- Size. This one I guess is more personal than the others. I found it to be slighty larger than I like and had to flex my hand too much to use it one handed most of the time.
- Smoothness. ICS has hardware acceleration, fine, and it works most of the time, sure, but it's really noticeable when it's not there and really inconsistent to have it be completely smooth in some areas and really stuttery in others. I guess this will get better over time, but I like having this work "out of the box". iOS is smooth 95% of the time.
I'm not dissing the GNexus, I find it to be the best android phone to date and I really love most of what Google has done to android. However, after more than a year owning several android handsets and then buying the 4S I remembered how pain-free the iOS experience is, and I realized I spent more time changing ROMs and customizing android than I did enjoying it and using apps.
I never had a need for a real filesystem, I have no issues with iTunes and I don't feel limited by iOS' restrictions, though I understand if most of you do. I'll probably go back to android with the Galaxy S3 or whatever, and I guess everything will be more mature by then, but right now I'm happy with my 4S and it suits my needs better than the Gnex did.

For some reason when you own an iphone you start wearing turtlenecks and people start calling you a pretentious douche.

-Flash, for when I need it // Nexus Doesn't support flash...yet
-file system. This is kinda crippled now, but whatever. //Why? Works just like it has on my other Androids?
-worse camera // It's as good as the person using it.. my iPhone wasn't that great.
-not as smooth // Depends on what you have running unlike the iPhone that just randomly shuts apps off.
-no 100% reliable, native syncing for my photos and music //This is why I quit iPhones Itunes is a joke takes fooooorever to sync the it duplicates and deletes... just drag and drop...simple.
-no comparable suite to iWorks // There are many office apps most are the same ones in the app store.
-less app selection // seems like both stores have pretty much the same ones and the billion junk apps
-bad battery life // If you run the screen and skype and video... guess what iPhone or android the battery drains.....The iphone will win not because it has better battery life but because it will quit skype force the screen off and stop the video because it knows what you want better than you do.
I have had every IOS device except the 4S... so I don't dislike them but I do dislike lists like this... Because you really should try out Android (especially ICS) and formulate your opinion. Because its not just about the hardware its about changing from my phone knows best I just expect the battery to last.... To taking the time to set it to do exactly what you want it to....and yes if you have 50 apps running the battery WILL die a quick death...lol

The difference and what makes it better is easy. I am in no way bashing the iPhone. I own it and love all apple products. Here are the facts iPhone is a place that houses all your apps the SN is a OS with apps.

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