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Been on the zune website and the only way you can download the software is to get it from the american site, so I'm wondering when the new WP7 handsets come out and have zune access on them will we in england be able to use the service to buy music and videos (if they do it). Ive been looking though the site and the web but not really heard much about it.
As it stands we can only use zune on our xbox 360's and then it uses a stupid point system to purchase instead of saying "that will be £2.99 please", this is one of the reason I prefer the Playstation Networks film service it has more films and uses real money... on the other side its so slow to download anything
Anyway I digress, has anyone heard anything about the zune network and would like to share the info please
I can feel your pain, mate... I live in Belgium and had imported a Zune 80 gb a couple of years back and been happily using it until it died on my last year...
But I use everyday the Zune software, IMHO it's the best out there (unless for .mkv and .flac playback...)
Look, they haven't said muck, but with the Kin due to come out in Germany, and WP7 latter this year, well, it's only a matter of time until they bring out the Zune Pass over in Europe.
Have faith
Darknight247 said:
buy music
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Wat .
Yes, they have said that the Zune software (and service, not sure to what extent) will be available in all countries where Kin and WP7 are sold.
RustyGrom said:
Yes, they have said that the Zune software (and service, not sure to what extent) will be available in all countries where Kin and WP7 are sold.
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Ok cheers, is there any site link you got to confirm this info... not that i dont believe you i just like to see sights and see what they say, usually find good others links on sites that i can spend hours looking at new stuff
Now we have some official information about regional availability.
In a nutshell, WP7 will support 5 languages (English, French, Italian, German and Spanish), and Marketplace will be available in 17 countries (Australia, Austria, Belgium, Canada, France, Germany, Hong Kong, India, Ireland, Italy, Mexico, New Zealand, Singapore, Spain, Switzerland, UK and United States).
While at first I thought - fine, I'll just import one from wherever it's available, it won't work.
First of all, it will be next to useless if you speak Dutch or Russian, for example - it won't have dictionaries for auto-correction or, in the worst case, won't have the input characters necessary.
What's even worse, you won't be able to buy applications if your market isn't supported.
Big disappointment...
Disappointing low availability in the initial rush. I'd expected more of Microsoft.
Lol. You guys are way too harsh. Do you know how many carriers those markets contain? A LOT.
Rolling out an entirely new software platform and entirely new devices is not an easy process. Lighten up, they're doing an excellent job.
Iridox said:
Lol. You guys are way too harsh. Do you know how many carriers those markets contain? A LOT.
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No, we're not.
Apple iTunes is the only marketplace that supports selling/buying applications in those regions. And same goes for music services (iTunes Music Store) versus Zune.
Google after over a year of Android still haven't launched anything in northern Europe. It's super annoying that we're left behind innovation this easy. I'd expected more of Microsoft, who have a established business selling software and services in all the European countries, to be able to launch in all these regions at the same time.
Iridox said:
Lol. You guys are way too harsh.
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I'm not harsh, I'm disappointed because I'm left out of the party, even though I live in a country that almost 4 times as many mobile phones in use as in France, where Microsoft has over 30% market share in smartphones, where they have tons of people working at their offices including developers and localization contractors and what not, and where they have some of the biggest ISVs supplying third party applications.
So I'm frustrated, not harsh.
Windcape said:
Google after over a year of Android still haven't launched anything in northern Europe.
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Google isn't a consumer oriented company, have no infrastructure or processes in most places to sell anything directly to end users, so that's understandable. But Microsoft? Come on, they're just being lazy.
vangrieg said:
..
Google isn't a consumer oriented company, have no infrastructure or processes in most places to sell anything directly to end users, so that's understandable. But Microsoft? Come on, they're just being lazy.
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But it is still very successful.
Which makes Microsoft think.....and rethink its new product roll-out.
Could their not be other issues like Licensing and other laws that might make it difficult to get everything in order before a mass release is done? Just because you have access to similar products now doesn't mean it is easy to get new products to you when Laws/Procedure get in the way.
IM0001 said:
Could their not be other issues like Licensing and other laws that might make it difficult to get everything in order before a mass release is done?
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That is precisely the problem. It's the same reason that developers have to be in one of 30 or so countries because Microsoft can't pay them if they're outside of those.
Wow, none of the Nordic countries.
nizzon said:
Wow, none of the Nordic countries.
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Probably copyright issues. That and languages that aren't spoken by a large amount of people comparatively.
RustyGrom said:
Probably copyright issues. That and languages that aren't spoken by a large amount of people comparatively.
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All the Nordic countries speak/read/write English almost as well as their native language, so it's not a localization issue.
Legal issues is more likely the problem -- Specially when it comes to Zune, more than anything else.
But it's still disappointing, as Microsoft got large local divisions in the Nordic countries, specially Denmark (Microsoft Dynamics is developed here), so one would think they could be better than Google in this.
What I don't understand, is that Apple got both iTunes for Apps and Music available in all the European countries, so why would Microsoft be limited here with Zune?
However, it could also just be that Microsoft isn't pushing it to all countries due to simple logical issues -- there simply ain't enough phones. Nokia had same issue with the N900, which also were limited to the major countries + Finland (Nokia resides in Finland).
But is it common practice to sell stuff in english and not the local language? I really don't know but I would think they would localize it.
Zune has been interesting. Microsoft really hasn't bothered to sell it anywhere but the US. I suppose it's more of a cost/benefit thing. They just didn't care enough to take it abroad. They started that when they brought it to Xbox 360 and now they're going further with WP7.
But yea, it's going to be hard enough on them and their partners to do an effective launch in 17 countries as it is. And they're supposedly going to make their way to the Netherlands before the end of the year so that may just be it as well. Or maybe they couldn't get all the legal issues straightened out in time? At any rate, it's no small undertaking.
RustyGrom said:
But is it common practice to sell stuff in english and not the local language? I really don't know but I would think they would localize it.
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For cutting-edge it's generally accepted.
RustyGrom said:
Zune has been interesting. Microsoft really hasn't bothered to sell it anywhere but the US. I suppose it's more of a cost/benefit thing. They just didn't care enough to take it abroad. They started that when they brought it to Xbox 360 and now they're going further with WP7.
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Yeah, they stated that Zune will be released in all regions WP7 is released in.
RustyGrom said:
At any rate, it's no small undertaking.
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Doesn't make it less annoying for us
RustyGrom said:
Zune has been interesting. Microsoft really hasn't bothered to sell it anywhere but the US. I suppose it's more of a cost/benefit thing. They just didn't care enough to take it abroad. They started that when they brought it to Xbox 360 and now they're going further with WP7.
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Well, Zune is a very difficult thing because digital rights have to be obtained for every country separately... Plus, Zune has streaming, so you have to get streaming rights as well. Sometimes a label will have an agreement with the artist that won't cover digital rights, so you'll have to negotiate these separately. That's a colossal amount of "manual" work to make an international music store - and then you get videos, too...
As nice as it would be to have Zune Pass though, I can certainly live without it, and I sincerely hope this isn't something that's holding WP7 back - they won't open Zune in many countries till doomsday.
RustyGrom said:
But yea, it's going to be hard enough on them and their partners to do an effective launch in 17 countries as it is. And they're supposedly going to make their way to the Netherlands before the end of the year so that may just be it as well. Or maybe they couldn't get all the legal issues straightened out in time? At any rate, it's no small undertaking.
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Apart from Zune, however, I don't see any big hurdles. Translation isn't a big deal, they have a network of subcontractors that do it, and everything is in those MUI files. Marketplace is available in more than 17 countries even now, so they certainly learned how to deal with tax and legal issues by now, and it's not that difficult really. OEMs know how to sell devices there, have distributors, retail/MO partners etc. etc.
At the end of the day I don't care if they "launch" WP7 in Russia or not, all I care is that they add Russian keyboard. Adding language support is certainly not that big of anl undertaking which would sell a couple million more devices even without official launches and all that fluff.
vangrieg said:
As nice as it would be to have Zune Pass though, I can certainly live without it, and I sincerely hope this isn't something that's holding WP7 back - they won't open Zune in many countries till doomsday.
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As I said, Zune will be launched in all countries they launch WP7 in.
At the end of the day I don't care if they "launch" WP7 in Russia or not, all I care is that they add Russian keyboard. Adding language support is certainly not that big of anl undertaking which would sell a couple million more devices even without official launches and all that fluff.
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It's a software keyboard, can't be that difficult to implement, even for a Cyrillic alphabet.
Windcape said:
As I said, Zune will be launched in all countries they launch WP7 in.
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In that case we'll never ever see WP7 in Russia, even Apple hasn't been able to get deals with labels to launch iTunes store here.
Windcape said:
It's a software keyboard, can't be that difficult to implement, even for a Cyrillic alphabet.
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Certainly, given that CE supports Cyrillic, Silverlight supports Cyrillic, even Zune supports Cyrillic, and Microsoft has all the dictionaries and stuff. That's a really minor thing to do to get access to a market with some 200 million active mobile phones in use I'd say...
So we wont even get the Phones?!!!!!!!
I got the impression that we could buy the phones but not have access to the Marketplace. I though wrong?
If thats the case, when the F!!! will I be able to buy it in Sweden? Next summer?
This is ****ing uppsetting.
nizzon said:
So we wont even get the Phones?
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Well, you don't need a phone to be officially available in your country to buy it, you can just buy it on the internet from wherever you like. You may not get official warranty, it won't be subsidised etc., but you can get it if you want.
Lack of official status isn't a problem with WM because you can install any keyboard you want and you can sideload applications. This isn't a problem with the iPhone because it supports tons of languages regardless of where you buy it. In the case of WP7, text autocorrection won't work, you might not get the characters you need in the software keyboard, and you won't be able to install applications, so simply importing it will be pretty much useless.
nizzon said:
So we wont even get the Phones?!!!!!!!
I got the impression that we could buy the phones but not have access to the Marketplace. I though wrong?
If thats the case, when the F!!! will I be able to buy it in Sweden? Next summer?
This is ****ing uppsetting.
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Countries like the Netherlands have been told to get it around Christmas - so most likely the Nordic countries will get it too...
Don't be too upset, there will be announcements soon.
vangrieg said:
Well, you don't need a phone to be officially available in your country to buy it, you can just buy it on the internet from wherever you like. You may not get official warranty, it won't be subsidised etc., but you can get it if you want.
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Not in my case, I will get it from the company I work for and we have certain policys to follow.
I was wondering why we could not have a decent official YouTube application (there are some alternatives, LazyTube, SuperTube or RealTube).
Samely Google Maps is still not proposed for WP7, which can be a problem for customers outside UK/US who are stuck with the Bing Maps.
It seems that there is an answer here, and the problem may possibly come from Google according to Brad Smith, Senior Vice President & General Counsel at Microsoft:
http://blogs.technet.com/b/microsof...voice-to-concerns-about-search-in-europe.aspx
Microsoft is filing a formal complaint with the European Commission as part of the Commission’s ongoing investigation into whether Google has violated European competition law.
According to Brad Smith, Senior Vice President & General Counsel at Microsoft, [...] in 2010 and again more recently, Google blocked Microsoft’s new Windows Phones from operating properly with YouTube. Google has enabled its own Android phones to access YouTube so that users can search for video categories, find favorites, see ratings, and so forth in the rich user interfaces offered by those phones. It’s done the same thing for the iPhones offered by Apple, which doesn’t offer a competing search service.
Unfortunately, Google has refused to allow Microsoft’s new Windows Phones to access this YouTube metadata in the same way that Android phones and iPhones do. As a result, Microsoft’s YouTube “app” on Windows Phones is basically just a browser displaying YouTube’s mobile Web site, without the rich functionality offered on competing phones
http://www.wpcentral.com/microsoft-calls-out-google-poor-youtube-windows-phone
arturobandini said:
I was wondering why we could not have a decent official YouTube application (there are some alternatives, LazyTube, SuperTube or RealTube).
Samely Google Maps is still not proposed for WP7, which can be a problem for customers outside UK/US who are stuck with the Bing Maps.
It seems that there is an answer here:
http://blogs.technet.com/b/microsof...voice-to-concerns-about-search-in-europe.aspx
Microsoft is filing a formal complaint with the European Commission as part of the Commission’s ongoing investigation into whether Google has violated European competition law
http://www.wpcentral.com/microsoft-calls-out-google-poor-youtube-windows-phone
I can't believe this is true. It is totally against basic competition rules and only the customers pay the consequences.
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if your browser can access the serviced, you're not blocked. next case.
ohgood said:
if your browser can access the serviced, you're not blocked. next case.
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You have heard of User-Agent?
I think google has more and greater things to prioritize rather than making and supporting apps for wp7 who has a small userbase. Haha, idk...
Relevant paragraph
Unfortunately, Google has refused to allow Microsoft’s new Windows Phones to access this YouTube metadata in the same way that Android phones and iPhones do. As a result, Microsoft’s YouTube “app” on Windows Phones is basically just a browser displaying YouTube’s mobile Web site, without the rich functionality offered on competing phones. Microsoft is ready to release a high quality YouTube app for Windows Phone. We just need permission to access YouTube in the way that other phones already do, permission Google has refused to provide.
peacekeeper05 said:
I think google has more and greater things to prioritize rather than making and supporting apps for wp7 who has a small userbase. Haha, idk...
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That's true of Google Maps but as for Youtube all they have to do is authorise it.
htc youtube works just fine
and supertube is amazingly flawless for downloading 720p videos for nothing. Heck I got quite a few anime and tv shows on my phone
now if I can find dr. who on there...
What's wrong with HTC branded YouTube app? The only thing I haven't figured out is how to post videos to FB with it. Other than that I think its great.
Sent from my HD7 using XDA Windows Phone 7 App
soopablake said:
What's wrong with HTC branded YouTube app? The only thing I haven't figured out is how to post videos to FB with it. Other than that I think its great.
Sent from my HD7 using XDA Windows Phone 7 App
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Mainly you can't click a youtube link and have it open with that app.
soopablake said:
What's wrong with HTC branded YouTube app?
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erm... it's only on HTC phones?
Edit: No need to bring up hacking or sideloading, natively it's just on HTC phones.
MS doesnt want gmaps since their bing-maps is "the solution"
youtube app exist for htc(official or semi-official, not sure) but i suspect that google has anything to do with "lack of support"...
They are blocking MS, not third parties.
Sent from my SGH-i917 using XDA Windows Phone 7 App
pasp1001 said:
MS doesnt want gmaps since their bing-maps is "the solution" (bingmaps doesnt work for many euro countries bu still MS insists on them-
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My God... To me Bing Maps is one of the major weak point of WP7, which indeed sometimes makes me regret I did not chose Android.
But it's only MS' fault if Bing Maps is such a crappy app outside UK and the US. I don't even know if MS really realize how pathetic the service can be in my country. It's definitely a shame.
arturobandini said:
My God... To me Bing Maps is one of the major weak point of WP7, which indeed sometimes makes me regret I did not chose Android.
But it's only MS' fault if Bing Maps is such a crappy app outside UK and the US. I don't even know if MS really realize how pathetic the service can be in my country. It's definitely a shame.
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yes i know and i agree 100%- bing maps is useless piece of zhit for many(me included)
i was just being sarcastic for the google-haters, cause frankly the truth need to be told
MS- DOESNT WANT GMAPS
Guys, remember Bing maps will improve once they integrate Nokia's Ovi maps as that's part of their deal. But like most things WP7 I don't think it will come until at least a year from now.
soopablake said:
What's wrong with HTC branded YouTube app? The only thing I haven't figured out is how to post videos to FB with it. Other than that I think its great.
Sent from my HD7 using XDA Windows Phone 7 App
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My jaw continues to drop...
First of all, it's only for HTC phones. Dell, Samsung, and LG devices don't have that app.
Secondly, there is still a functionality gap between and Google [Android] YouTube Apps. Not sure what Microsoft has in store, but I can't imagine it would be any worse than what HTC put out.
Perhaps they should use this time to deliver to us a decent WLM Client?
The issue Microsoft are having with Google are probably similar to the issues they had with Twitter that stopped them from delivering Twitter in People Hub to us on release (yet Samsung was interestingly able to integrate it into Samsung Social Hub... these things continue to baffle me).
There is also word going around that Google is intentionally being slow authorizing Android phones that are being released with Microsoft Bing as the default search... BTW...
ohgood said:
if your browser can access the serviced, you're not blocked. next case.
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Unless the jurisdiction's competition law considers quality of access as well as access. Which the EU and USA both do.
If I stop you from listing your goods on an online marketplace in categories because you are my competitor, but do let you list them untagged, will I be liable? Certainly.
Bad analogy.
You should perhaps read the complete article/letter in the second link of the OP.
It's no surprise that Google is quite anti-competitive, and for those complaining about Bing Maps, understand that Bing is funded by Ad Revenue for the most part (from the Search Engine) and in Europe Google has 95% of the Search Market. Since Google is so dominant in Europe, it means Bing Maps in Europe will not be as good as in the US/UK because the funding from Europe is terribad compared to the US - thanks to Google.
I think it's about time the Government does what it should have done a long time ago and classify Google as a Monopoly in the Search Market...
If Microsoft was doing this, regulators would be calling for their heads.
N8ter said:
My jaw continues to drop...
First of all, it's only for HTC phones. Dell, Samsung, and LG devices don't have that app. er...yes we do...youtube 2.0 xap has been on xda for a while
Secondly, there is still a functionality gap between and Google [Android] YouTube Apps. Not sure what Microsoft has in store, but I can't imagine it would be any worse than what HTC put out. Can we really say what microsoft has in store considering google blocked microsoft access
Perhaps they should use this time to deliver to us a decent WLM Client?for the last time, miyowa is the official msn client. Developers of li'messenger is coming back in Q2 with a new client, but for now, miyowa is here to stay
The issue Microsoft are having with Google are probably similar to the issues they had with Twitter that stopped them from delivering Twitter in People Hub to us on release (yet Samsung was interestingly able to integrate it into Samsung Social Hub... these things continue to baffle me). again similar to htc, samsung is not microsoft
There is also word going around that Google is intentionally being slow authorizing Android phones that are being released with Microsoft Bing as the default search... BTW...
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Rumor doesn't really surprise me. Hi google, you're the big brother Microsoft couldn't be
There is definitely something that Google is preventing Microsoft from doing correctly. If you take a look at any Microsoft app, it is at least pretty and it works. The Youtube app is just as ugly as it can be. There is no obvious explanation to this other that MS vs Google.
As for a decent WLM app, I am almost sure they already have it, its just a matter of getting multitasking out there first. No multitasking, no chat is worthy.
Sent from my SGH-i917 using XDA Windows Phone 7 App
Just under 2 weeks now .
http://www.zdnet.com/blog/microsoft/microsoft-slates-mango-vip-unveiling-for-may-24-in-new-york/9389
does the developers kit mean that develpoers will get mango on their wp7, or they can only make wp7 apps? As I can sign up to become a developer for free due to dreamspark?
andoridkiller said:
does the developers kit mean that develpoers will get mango on their wp7, or they can only make wp7 apps? As I can sign up to become a developer for free due to dreamspark?
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I doubt it. I expect it'll just run in the emulator.
Also, you have to submit an app if you're signing up through DreamSpark to get your identity verified by GeoTrust.
Casey
I'm excited to see what they announce. All the features leaked over the last few days are already nice (plus all the Developer goodies announced at MIX), but you know thats just the tip of the iceberg, and they will probably have one or two major things to announce as well.
Probably the best thing they can do right now. The OS is dead until Mango/Nokia. When Nokia devices hit with Mango I expect to see a huge spike in sales and development.
Casey_boy said:
I doubt it. I expect it'll just run in the emulator.
Also, you have to submit an app if you're signing up through DreamSpark to get your identity verified by GeoTrust.
Casey
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Yes Developers will get an image to install on there test phones this has been stated several times including at mix11.
vetvito said:
Probably the best thing they can do right now. The OS is dead until Mango/Nokia. When Nokia devices hit with Mango I expect to see a huge spike in sales and development.
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The OS is far from dead, and a steady marketshare despite the disgusting drop in Windows Mobile sales shows that. Microsoft is basically countering the complete loss of Windows Mobile market sales with Windows Phone, which can't be an easy task, to be honest. People don't see this. And all the reports I've read show this, aside the biased blogs which look like they were written by users on this site.
But, I do agree with the huge spike coming with Mango and Nokia. Microsoft has developed a steady foundation where many developers have seen the ease in development for the platform. Therefore, once the available apis are there, I see them all joining the platform. After all, they're here to make money, and the more OS platforms they're on, the more potential they have.
Honestly, the phone is fine as it is now, it does everything the real public wants, aside from chat and Words With Friends -.- and things like AIM are basically dead to the American teenage market, where FB Chat has taken over and Skype. Come Mango, the "missing" features will flood in, and with Verizon's marketing history, and Nokia's dominance, I think the outlook is significantly more positive than some on here would lead you to believe.
This is Microsoft, they don't lose.
FiyaFleye said:
Honestly, the phone is fine as it is now, it does everything the real public wants
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No it's not, most people have issues with Live Tiles and Notifications and that's a big deal. When you get an eBay "outbid" notification after the auction is over you would agree it is totally pointless.
aside from chat and Words With Friends -.- and things like AIM are basically dead to the American teenage market, where FB Chat has taken over and Skype.
This is Microsoft, they don't lose.
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To be fair AlphaJax is just as good as Words With Friends .
You're totally wrong on AIM, there are enough people who can't be bothered to go through facebook to chat with their friends. Have you seen how popular BBM is? Not to mention WLM and Google Talk.
Come Mango, the "missing" features will flood in, and with Verizon's marketing history, and Nokia's dominance, I think the outlook is significantly more positive than some on here would lead you to believe.
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Partly agree, Mango will make it a great OS and that's the OS that will sell people, not Verizon (which is US only) or Nokia, although they will help.
This is Microsoft, they don't lose.
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I'm a MS fan too but can't occult Windows Mobile 6.5, Zune or Kin as overall failures.
The problem with Skype isn't really its existence or lack thereof. It's the fact that major players like Google and Microsoft do not have decent mobile clients. Windows Live Messenger supports VoIP and Video Calling. So did Google Talk and look how long it took Google to add it into Android. I'm unsure if Micorsoft is adding this in Mango, but we don't know all the details.
Read reviews online. Most people who post them want Skype for the Video Calling and Free Skype to Skype VoIP. With the proliferation of Smartphones these days, in many cases it's just dumb to pay Skype anything when you can have your friends install the app and do it all for free, Lol.
Google and Microsoft have the capacity to offer those same services with a better user experience. They just need to get off of their asses and do it. Skype hysteria is completely due to services like WLM and Google Talk sucking on smartphones.
Then again, Skype would probably file AntiTrust suits against them if they did that
I've never understood people who were all "SKYPE SKYPE SKYPE!" when they really should be saying "fix your fking mobile clients so we don't have to install this boring battery hogging app that restricts functionality on various platforms because they have carrier deals" and things like that.
Peew971 said:
No it's not, most people have issues with Live Tiles and Notifications and that's a big deal. When you get an eBay "outbid" notification after the auction is over you would agree it is totally pointless.
To be fair AlphaJax is just as good as Words With Friends .
You're totally wrong on AIM, there are enough people who can't be bothered to go through facebook to chat with their friends. Have you seen how popular BBM is? Not to mention WLM and Google Talk.
Partly agree, Mango will make it a great OS and that's the OS that will sell people, not Verizon (which is US only) or Nokia, although they will help.
Unnecessary fanboyism. I'm a MS fan too but can't occult Windows Mobile 6.5, Zune or Kin as overall failures.
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People is very inclusive. I had to intentionally break my Live Tiles for them to stop working. But, I do agree Push Notifications needs work, however, this is not a vital piece of the phone, and none of the major apps even use it. I do get extremely irritated when Microsoft can't communicate with my phone and it returns back to the server that I can't be reached... It should continue to try... Which is unfortunate as it takes Rowi & such to provide fixes, which shows its possible to make them more reliable for now. Second, BBM isn't AIM, I would argue that GTalk or whatever the hell it is would be more important than AIM, and there are already alternates. I believe AIM is the only major player with no support, third party included, on the OS, but you need to understand that THIS generation of American teenagers relies more on FB & Skype/Oovoo than I did on AIM 10 years ago... AlphaJax may be as good, but it doesn't have the cross-platform ability of WWF, nor its popularity. Potential iPhone customers want to see the name WWF, and Angry Birds, not Alpha Jax and Chicks&Vixens...
For you to downplay the Verizon inclusion, or Nokia deal is ridiculous tho, and we usually agree issues from what I've seen. Verizon singlehandedly blew Android up. ALONE, Lol. They made Motorola relevant again too. Verizon and AT&T jumping on the WP7 bandwagon is important, extremely. Microsoft is an American company, and as we saw with Xbox, their American success determines how hard they pursue the rest of the world. WP7 MUST be a success here, and I believe it will be... Android is also in trouble, lots of it, legal wise from what I keep reading.
Fanboyism? WinMo was a success until the market changed lol, a huge success. They just didn't want to jump into the consumer market the way they should have, but WinMo was huge... So huge that it's still being developed for on here, when it's pretty useless when it comes to the average consumer. Kin was a failure because I'm almost positive they were using it as a guinea pig for their cloud services... Which sucks for those customers. The Zune wasn't a failure either, they just didn't back it with the necessary advertising. But as far as a product, it was extremely successful, and it most cases, better than the iPod... And it led the way to this OS...
Microsoft has a history of pouring money into things it wants to succeed until it gets it right... I just see that. Apple got "lucky" with the iPhone, and they've run with it. And the iPhone has singlehandedly made they cool enough to own all of their products. But I see Microsoft's attempt to integrate everything now as a "we'll own these markets if it kills us" approach.
FiyaFleye said:
People is very inclusive. I had to intentionally break my Live Tiles for them to stop working. But, I do agree Push Notifications needs work, however, this is not a vital piece of the phone, and none of the major apps even use it. I do get extremely irritated when Microsoft can't communicate with my phone and it returns back to the server that I can't be reached... It should continue to try... Which is unfortunate as it takes Rowi & such to provide fixes, which shows its possible to make them more reliable for now. Second, BBM isn't AIM, I would argue that GTalk or whatever the hell it is would be more important than AIM, and there are already alternates. I believe AIM is the only major player with no support, third party included, on the OS, but you need to understand that THIS generation of American teenagers relies more on FB & Skype/Oovoo than I did on AIM 10 years ago... AlphaJax may be as good, but it doesn't have the cross-platform ability of WWF, nor its popularity. Potential iPhone customers want to see the name WWF, and Angry Birds, not Alpha Jax and Chicks&Vixens...
For you to downplay the Verizon inclusion, or Nokia deal is ridiculous tho, and we usually agree issues from what I've seen. Verizon singlehandedly blew Android up. ALONE, Lol. They made Motorola relevant again too. Verizon and AT&T jumping on the WP7 bandwagon is important, extremely. Microsoft is an American company, and as we saw with Xbox, their American success determines how hard they pursue the rest of the world. WP7 MUST be a success here, and I believe it will be... Android is also in trouble, lots of it, legal wise from what I keep reading.
Fanboyism? WinMo was a success until the market changed lol, a huge success. They just didn't want to jump into the consumer market the way they should have, but WinMo was huge... So huge that it's still being developed for on here, when it's pretty useless when it comes to the average consumer. Kin was a failure because I'm almost positive they were using it as a guinea pig for their cloud services... Which sucks for those customers. The Zune wasn't a failure either, they just didn't back it with the necessary advertising. But as far as a product, it was extremely successful, and it most cases, better than the iPod... And it led the way to this OS...
Microsoft has a history of pouring money into things it wants to succeed until it gets it right... I just see that. Apple got "lucky" with the iPhone, and they've run with it. And the iPhone has singlehandedly made they cool enough to own all of their products. But I see Microsoft's attempt to integrate everything now as a "we'll own these markets if it kills us" approach.
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- Teenagers might rely more on facebook but remember teenagers aren't the target from what MS stated last year. IM might still be the best option.
- Agreed on WWF, didn't know it was cross-platform. Don't get me started on Xbox Live.
- Maybe it's best to focus on other territories just as much, if not more than on the US. Verizon isn't in Europe but Android are still selling like hot cakes.
The key IMO is to have the best possible OS and as many carriers onboard as possible. I'm not downplaying Verizon, just stating doing well in the US isn't the end of the road (e.g. the Xbox 360 is behind the PS3 in worldwide sales).
The Nokia deal is great but many people have stayed with Nokia for Symbian (oddly enough) so not all users will carry over to WP7.
Let the OS do the talking is what I say, more than Verizon and Nokia.
- Yes Winmo was a success, I specifically said Winmo 6.5 which was an attempt to stay relevant in a changing market. That didn't work.
Zune was/is a great player (I went through 2) but it wasn't a success, which was the point I was arguing.
Kin was a failure, I'm sure they believed in it. Just like Zune it can bring great features to WP7 though.
So you must admit that your "MS never lose" was a bit pushing it, I'm sure other people can find other examples.
I'm just as optimistic as you are probably for WP7, it's just that I don't see it as a walk in the park at all.
you need to understand that THIS generation of American teenagers relies more on FB & Skype/Oovoo than I did on AIM 10 years ago... AlphaJax may be as good, but it doesn't have the cross-platform ability of WWF, nor its popularity. Potential iPhone customers want to see the name WWF, and Angry Birds, not Alpha Jax and Chicks&Vixens...
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Is this a teenage phone? You may be on to something here.
For you to downplay the Verizon inclusion, or Nokia deal is ridiculous tho, and we usually agree issues from what I've seen. Verizon singlehandedly blew Android up. ALONE, Lol.
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So verizon made a ton of different Androids, and sold them around the world to zillions of people. Don't let a single ad campaign fool you. You have to forget about HTC, Samsung, and Motorola to say that. I can guarantee you, it won't happen for WP.
Microsoft is an American company, and as we saw with Xbox, their American success determines how hard they pursue the rest of the world. WP7 MUST be a success here, and I believe it will be... Android is also in trouble, lots of it, legal wise from what I keep reading.
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OMG, the Xbox crutch. Stop it. Microsoft is a consumer failure, and you guys rely on this one product to measure its success.
Also, you know Oracle had to drop 98% of their claims against Android.
Fanboyism? WinMo was a success until the market changed lol, a huge success.
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A huge success? Please stop it. The sales have never been great. The HD2 is the highest selling Microsoft phone EVER.
Kin was a failure because I'm almost positive they were using it as a guinea pig for their cloud services... Which sucks for those customers.
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No, the company you praise called Verizon made Kin fail. It had a high ass smartphone data plan.
The Zune wasn't a failure either, they just didn't back it with the necessary advertising. But as far as a product, it was extremely successful, and it most cases, better than the iPod... And it led the way to this OS...
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It was better than the iPod, it just didn't do as much as the iPod. Zune wasn't a success either. Stop it. Everyone knows it wasn't.
Microsoft has a history of pouring money into things it wants to succeed until it gets it right... I just see that.
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Name 4 consumer products that succeeded from Microsoft. Products that don't involve another corporation or OEM, Microsoft consumer products. I'll start
1. Xbox
2. ?
3. ?
4. ?
Apple got "lucky" with the iPhone, and they've run with it. And the iPhone has singlehandedly made they cool enough to own all of their products. But I see Microsoft's attempt to integrate everything now as a "we'll own these markets if it kills us" approach.
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They got lucky with the iPhone? Sure my friend, lets not go there.
Peew971 said:
- Teenagers might rely more on facebook but remember teenagers aren't the target from what MS stated last year. IM might still be the best option.
- Agreed on WWF, didn't know it was cross-platform. Don't get me started on Xbox Live.
- Maybe it's best to focus on other territories just as much, if not more than on the US. Verizon isn't in Europe but Android are still selling like hot cakes.
The key IMO is to have the best possible OS and as many carriers onboard as possible. I'm not downplaying Verizon, just stating doing well in the US isn't the end of the road (e.g. the Xbox 360 is behind the PS3 in worldwide sales).
The Nokia deal is great but many people have stayed with Nokia for Symbian (oddly enough) so not all users will carry over to WP7.
Let the OS do the talking is what I say, more than Verizon and Nokia.
- Yes Winmo was a success, I specifically said Winmo 6.5 which was an attempt to stay relevant in a changing market. That didn't work.
Zune was/is a great player (I went through 2) but it wasn't a success, which was the point I was arguing.
Kin was a failure, I'm sure they believed in it. Just like Zune it can bring great features to WP7 though.
So you must admit that your "MS never lose" was a bit pushing it, I'm sure other people can find other examples.
I'm just as optimistic as you are probably for WP7, it's just that I don't see it as a walk in the park at all.
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XBL is hindered by the lack of APIs, we both know that. We're going to see multiplayer the second Mango lands, I'll bet anything on that. Also, the OS can do all it wants, but when HTC and such put horrible quality cameras, and hardware on these devices, it's going to hinder their sales. I've been fortunate, but others haven't in terms of cameras and such.
About Android, they're about to have that success because of their explosion here though, and that's my point. Microsoft needs to succeed on its turf before it can succeed everywhere, same as Google did with Verizon.
And the PS3 might be ahead in lifetime sales, but my point is that now the 360 is the #1 platform afaik... And has been for a significant while now. And like I said about the Kin, I don't think they ever cared about the Kin, just what it offered, and how they could test their cloud services... At least it seemed like it. they released the Kin after development of WP started... Which leads me to believe they weren't in it for the long run.
vetvito said:
Probably the best thing they can do right now. The OS is dead until Mango/Nokia. When Nokia devices hit with Mango I expect to see a huge spike in sales and development.
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It's not dead. Not by a long shot..
WP7 has slow adoption rates but it's doing fine. The general public who buys most of this stuff has no idea Mango exists or what it would do for them.
WP7 is a great, feature rich, easy to use and elegant OS. It has what it needs to excel it just needs more advertising and some kick ass hardware like Android has been getting.
Updates like Mango only appeal to the very small number of enthusiasts such as ourselves.
It depends on how you define dead. Form a development perspective it's dead. There are too many things you simply can't do on the platform, nad there are too many apps that are impossible to port due to the lack of APIs. From that point of view it's dead. Mango will change that. Mango will also make the platform more desireable because it won't be seen as a dead end for so many people, as WP7 currently is with it's limitations and lack of top/useful apps.
If you mean dead by ceasing to exist than that's not possible, not even Windows Mobile is dead yet, if going by that definition.
But there cannot be much momentum for WP7 until Mango hits. The OS was released in a state that simply doesn't allow it at the moment.
If you look at WP7 and Mango the way Microsoft looks at them: two completely different OS releases instead of a base OS and an update or SP, then the average consumer who brought these devices and were forced (using the term loosely) to use it in its current state should be pretty pissed, IMO. I think Microsoft would have struggled to sell half the devices they did if they told users up front they'd have to wait a year for a decent feature update before it RTM'd...
The way they view it, trying to justify the current state of the OS with Mango is like trying to justify RTM Vista using Windows 7 as a rebuttal. It just doesn't work, especially when users have months of this clunky user experience to look forward to before they get an update, and lord knows how to carriers will handle that...
N8ter said:
The problem with Skype isn't really its existence or lack thereof. It's the fact that major players like Google and Microsoft do not have decent mobile clients. Windows Live Messenger supports VoIP and Video Calling. So did Google Talk and look how long it took Google to add it into Android. I'm unsure if Micorsoft is adding this in Mango, but we don't know all the details.
Read reviews online. Most people who post them want Skype for the Video Calling and Free Skype to Skype VoIP. With the proliferation of Smartphones these days, in many cases it's just dumb to pay Skype anything when you can have your friends install the app and do it all for free, Lol.
Google and Microsoft have the capacity to offer those same services with a better user experience. They just need to get off of their asses and do it. Skype hysteria is completely due to services like WLM and Google Talk sucking on smartphones.
Then again, Skype would probably file AntiTrust suits against them if they did that
I've never understood people who were all "SKYPE SKYPE SKYPE!" when they really should be saying "fix your fking mobile clients so we don't have to install this boring battery hogging app that restricts functionality on various platforms because they have carrier deals" and things like that.
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windows Live/Massanger whatever you call it will be built in/integrated in the contacts/people tile.
MS is trying to buy Skype, or joint venture, so u will see video call on WP7.5 devices...
N8ter said:
It depends on how you define dead. Form a development perspective it's dead. There are too many things you simply can't do on the platform, nad there are too many apps that are impossible to port due to the lack of APIs.
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Last time I checked, Marketplace was doing just fine for a platform that's 6 months old. I agree there are gaps in functionality and things devs can't do, but does it warrant the term "dead" really?
N8ter said:
But there cannot be much momentum for WP7 until Mango hits. The OS was released in a state that simply doesn't allow it at the moment.
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Mango schmango. WP7 won't have any serious marketshare until it gets dozens of devices and worldwide distribution. Even if it were the most functional thing in the world it would still need it, otherwise it's doomed to linger in the WebOS type of marketshare limbo.
Oh, and a couple of "flagships", too.
N8ter said:
If you look at WP7 and Mango the way Microsoft looks at them: two completely different OS releases instead of a base OS and an update or SP, then the average consumer who brought these devices and were forced (using the term loosely) to use it in its current state should be pretty pissed, IMO.
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Why should I be pissed, sorry?
vetvito said:
Probably the best thing they can do right now. The OS is dead until Mango/Nokia. When Nokia devices hit with Mango I expect to see a huge spike in sales and development.
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Waiting for this but i'm not holding my breath. With their track record, this Mango update could get released waaay late 2011 or early 2012. Maybe when the flagship Nokia/WP7 comes out with better specs than what is present (3year? old specs), and IF they expand their marketplace/zune support to include my country, with way better apps and games that are worth the Xbox Live logo ( Lunar Lander anyone?) i'll consider picking one up again (gave my HTC Trophy to my sister).
Seriously, this is just a preview. Stop complaining people.
We are going to have everything we asked for!
Messenger, Skype, Twitter and Facebook inside our OS like no other.
Better push notifications, faster, more reliable.
API, API, API and more API.
IE9
Multi Task for third apps(!!!!!!!!!!!)
New languages, dictionarys, markets..
And bug corrections.
What more do you want? Microsoft wouldn't announce something like "Oh, and it download embedded images from email. It's magical!".
Or you expect they to mention something stupid like that?
Wait and try the OS by yourself.
Usually, I'm complaining about MS and their failures. But.. Seriously, they're doing everything fine about Mango. At least, until now.
I bet someone will say "oh, it doesn't have video chat". Screw it. No one uses it. Even the 'Almighty' Android doesn't have it. Guess just now, and just for Nexus S. No one really care. It's just to say "I have it!".
Stop complaining for nothing. Microsoft is doing great!
vetvito said:
^ I can agree with that. Early adopters will be the one's screwed over.
I also believe Nokia will be the only maker of WP devices, if not the only, they will be the most dominant. That is if, they stop their other projects.
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Why? I think the samsung devices are doing fine, once mango has more languages a new major part of the world will start buying the devices. Right now if a phone is not in your native language a lot of people are not interested thus it is not marketed in those countries (half of europe). Imagine these markets which are very wealthy countries (some of the most wealthy countries actually) start to buy wp7. In these countries the design of the software is very important, maybe even more important than the features and if HTC will also design good devices along with Samsung I think they will stay. The people who've seen my phone asked me what it was and if I like it. I say yes, however native language support + multitasking + next level apps (all comming with mango) will really make it a superb platform.
Most guys here are phone tweakers, dont forget the majority of the customers are not like us and if they see some well designed apps like IMDB they are sold.
The reality at the moment is no native language for those countries, buggy features because of the system locale settings, no marketing/advertisement, no possibility yet to BUY apps (yes this is very important for a smartphone). Once Mango drops the word will spread and it will surely count. Samsung who sells a lot of its devices on these markets will see boosts in sales, I can see people being done with android or BB or iphone after those years of the same lay-out, so a change to WP7 will be very logical and if all desired features will be there people will enjoy it and tell their friends,
I am a fan, and owner of a Windows Phone 7 device. However, living in Germany (or anywhere else outside of the US/UK) limits the features of my phone. Please Microsoft, allow users outside of the US/UK to have a full featured device, like it is advertised. This is hurting your product. If I change regional settings to English (US or UK) I get local results for Germany, but with regional settings on German I don't! This is no good, give us access to what is already there, and build it up. Now with Local Scout, there are reports of this only working in the US and in the UK, we in the rest of the world want these features too! As an International Corporation, would it not be a good idea to invest in everyone equally?
I have therefore created a Facebook group, not much I know, but its a start right?
Please join this group if you feel the same way I do. Maybe if enough join, we can show Microsoft that all users want the same experience, not fragmented and dependant on location!
You will find the group here! Please be fruitful(?) anways please join!
+10 to you...nice post
no zune pass,no local scout and etc.......for australian devices.Furthermore, the apps here are F**king expensive.
pacman championship price= angry birds + tiny wings + infinity blade on iphone...epic fail pricing
Same here in Portugal! We don't even have access to Indie Games on Xbox Live
Talk to your governments.
Sent from my HD7 using XDA Windows Phone 7 App
sbrownla said:
Talk to your governments.
Sent from my HD7 using XDA Windows Phone 7 App
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Our governments sure don't block Microsoft from releasing a finished search engine (not bing beta which is actually live search) nor do they have anything to do with whether you can get local results etc. on the phone.
The only thing that I understand is that MS does not offer the Zune Pass in Germany because they would have to pay several cents for each song we stream.
UK isn't exactly fully featured either.
Freypal said:
UK isn't exactly fully featured either.
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Something is always better than nothing.
And governments have nothing to do with what Microsoft decides to release or not... unless you are in Libia or some weird dictatorial regime.
Freypal said:
UK isn't exactly fully featured either.
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But its more featured than the rest of the world
I'd rather talk to Microsoft about it, but they probably don't to talk to me...but that won't stop me from trying!!
LOL. In Germany you have at least Marketplace access The ONLY way to have paid apps on your phone in Bulgaria is to pirate them. And then MS talks about software piracy
It's complete joke. In my country you have Apple Appstore, Android Marketplace but no Windows Marketplace. Not even with Mango. Maybe we have to wait for a Banana update to have Marketplace as a popular joke is that we are the Banana Republic of the EU
I fully agree and fully subscribe to this thread.
I am really fed up with the US-centric MS services.
I am in France, not a small country, I have no local search and Bing Map sucks... Unusable. And Microsoft pretend to be a global company?
I think microsoft is too greedy,they want to gain 100% profits in here....Since they know that Bing is not good in other countries,they should give us an option to use google map...Like Apple,they are not operating any search engine or map businesses,therefore until now,they still using google map and iphone still selling good...
arturobandini said:
I fully agree and fully subscribe to this thread.
I am really fed up with the US-centric MS services.
I am in France, not a small country, I have no local search and Bing Map sucks... Unusable. And Microsoft pretend to be a global company?
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Excellent glad your with us!
I hope those Bing stations opened in Munich and Paris I believe start churning out better support!!
The funny thing is that Bing actually has Local Results for Germany, not good but still its there, we just can't access them! Only if we change browser and search language to english (US or UK). Giving us the option of Google Maps would go a long way, but in the end Microsoft wants to build up its Bing. They are, but it's just taking a while. With Nokia onboard hopefully we get there map data soon!
sylau90 said:
I think microsoft is too greedy,they want to gain 100% profits in here....Since they know that Bing is not good in other countries,they should give us an option to use google map...Like Apple,they are not operating any search engine or map businesses,therefore until now,they still using google map and iphone still selling good...
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Microsoft is NOT stopping Google from making Google Maps for Windows Phone so I don't see how this is Microsoft's fault.
day2die said:
Microsoft is NOT stopping Google from making Google Maps for Windows Phone so I don't see how this is Microsoft's fault.
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their fault is that they did not negotiate and cooperate with google before WP7 is released.They should use google map as the stock map app especially both bing(countries outside US) and wp7 still in a premature stage.
sylau90 said:
their fault is that they did not negotiate and cooperate with google before WP7 is released.They should use google map as the stock map app especially both bing(countries outside US) and wp7 still in a premature stage.
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Lol.. the most hilarious post ever.
So.. why don't apple puts windows on their macs as it's better and it's more used than mac os ?
Why don't google stop developing android as it suck and invest in WP7 as it's better ?
Or would you invest milions in something and than ask your biggest competitor to use their solution instead ?
TheOnly1 said:
LOL. In Germany you have at least Marketplace access The ONLY way to have paid apps on your phone in Bulgaria is to pirate them. And then MS talks about software piracy
It's complete joke. In my country you have Apple Appstore, Android Marketplace but no Windows Marketplace. Not even with Mango. Maybe we have to wait for a Banana update to have Marketplace as a popular joke is that we are the Banana Republic of the EU
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Click to collapse
Same "Banana" feeling here -.-
LoL at you????
For me,I won't bet my reputation since I know Bing is not good in other countries at this time,I rather use the better options for this critical stage since the OS is not perfect I won't risk the map and search engine apps as well.....As I mentioned,WP7 is in pre-mature stage,thats means just use google map temporarily,not forever
Furthermore,Thanks for bringing mac OS into this topic,you just make your mind look hilarious and awesome...I know that and thats why I LOL at you...
Do you know that mac OSX has a function called dual boot or boot camp?????this is because Apple knows their operating system still need more efforts to catch up the windows in terms of games and apps...therefore they offer this function....So,whats wrong???If WP7 use google map for this critical period since the bing map is not as good as google map in other countries in this world????In case you don't believe,I can tell you that in my university 1000+ imacs are dual booting windows XP...In this case,Apple at least gives their consumers an option,but we have none in WP7.
Moreover,you should know that Apple still securing their mac os well,so no pc can run mac os legally because apple didnt sell their license and it is a premier OS.M$ can do the same here,they can not license out the Bing map or search to other mobile devices.
After you read this,you should LOL at your post...
you make my day mate.
...I dont believe that Microsoft deliberately blocks any features to annoy users outside of the USA/UK. The questions is rather if they can. There are hundreds of regulations within each country and even more within the EU which prevents them
from doing this or including that. Just take the country codes on DVDs. Just take the uproar in Germany when Google started streetview. And lately the problems with collecting location data, which among others would be necessary to enjoy the features of "Local results"... One has to make a choice between protecting his privacy and using services based on data collections....
FTC said:
...I dont believe that Microsoft deliberately blocks any features to annoy users outside of the USA/UK. The questions is rather if they can. There are hundreds of regulations within each country and even more within the EU which prevents them
from doing this or including that. Just take the country codes on DVDs. Just take the uproar in Germany when Google started streetview. And lately the problems with collecting location data, which among others would be necessary to enjoy the features of "Local results"... One has to make a choice between protecting his privacy and using services based on data collections....
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Well MS tracks the location of phones in every country. And again, I understand that MS cannot offer the Zune Pass in Germany because of local laws but there is nothing stopping them from releasing voice search or a final bing engine or the upcoming bing vision and such stuff.
No zune pass in Canada, and make the Microsoft points good for Zune, Xbox live, etc
Sent from my T9295 using XDA Windows Phone 7 App