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I just recently decided that I have had enough of WinMo on my tilt2 and opted to see how the development of Android OS was coming along for the phone. Not surprisingly, it has developed a lot since I first picked up the phone in December and first thought of the idea of placing Android on the phone.
To my point-- I have some programming experience and would be interested in learning the language behind Android. Obviously it is linux based, but is that the only thing I need to know?
Does anyone know what I need to know to get started?
Links to appropriate sites with details on the language is really what I am looking for. Thanks to any and all that will help (not looking for trolls, get enough of those from other sites).
I too am learning linux, I've had to use linux commands for over a year now as I also own a G1 and you often (when rooting) need to go into a terminal to make changes. I unfortunately don't know much of the language required to create or change much of the android OS I only know the file structure and how to change that. If I were you I would jump over to http://www.android.com download the developers kit which comes with an android emulator and they have lots of tutorials and demo apps for the android OS. It won't do much as far as help you modify the system but it's a good place to get started.
Hope this helps and if you have any questions about the things I do know, feel free to ask me
androidonhtc.com/wiki/Get_Involved[/url] you can try this.
Took a look back for a few pages, and did a couple quick searches. Didn't quite find enough info.
I am wondering the best approach to take when converting a program to be compatible with and run on windows mobile.
I don't currently know any languages so, I would have to start learning from the beginning.
Thanks for any info
from the little I know about programming, the way an application (or games) works on windows is nothing similar to the way a program runs on windows mobile, so you would actually need to start from scratch... There are however some tools to make the job easier with older programs, like Dosbox... but I don't know if it's what you want.
The most amazing think for me is that, out os 61 views on this topic, the only person that bother to answer is NOT a developer (me)
Convert app? Impossible. With source code it is possible, if you adjust UI to fit the screen and get over some limitations and many other things.
Good is .NET on this, because if you install .NET CF on your PC, you can run apps built for winmo directly on your PC. Only issue is when it tries using other than normal libraries from GAC and tries using InterOp. That library would have to be recompiled for win32, rather wince-arm (back to 1st part). The same, the app has to be made that it is compatible with both file paths - remember that WinMo doesn't use C:\Windows but \Windows etc. And .NET CF is highly limited compared to desktop version.
Thanks for the replies.
I'm not looking for a simple way to convert programs as I'm sure it is impossible. I'm expecting to have to pretty much start from ground up.
I've seen some games such as Pocket Diablo(some others here http://www.jamesbeckingham.com.au/Default.aspx) as well as Starcraft that someone here was working on.
But I'm just wondering the best approach to do work like these guys. As there are some games I would like to bring to mobile.
These games work pretty much that people make the engine from scratch, with many hours in disassemblers, hexeditors etc they find out how does the engine load graphics from those huge files etc and they add it to their engine. Usually.
Its possible... but often more work than it is worth
OndraSter said:
These games work pretty much that people make the engine from scratch, with many hours in disassemblers, hexeditors etc they find out how does the engine load graphics from those huge files etc and they add it to their engine. Usually.
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Exactly. The hours put in to "porting" these apps to windows mobile is often close to the work it would take to make the game from scratch. So if you are not familiar with coding, disassembling code is far outside your scope. However, when finished, these games have more of an original feel, but often work less effective. This is due to the translation of using mouse clicks to touch input. Games such as diablo rely heavily on having two mice buttons to click. A total remake would be less like the original but might compensate for the new control scheme.
Both ways are possible, but they are both also complicated and involve a great deal of work. Not to mention how unhappy blizzard is with people using their artwork, even if the game is absolutely free.
Sorry but, none of you are really being helpful..
I do not expect this to be easy. I am expecting it to be a long process, and telling me something that I already know over and over doesn't help me get started. I've already said that I expect to probably have to rebuild these from ground up..
I know what is ahead of me and want to do this stuff, other wise I wouldn't be asking.
So if anyone knows the process or at least where I could get started. Please let me know. Otherwise I'll just start with Java then C# until I find my own way into doing this.
From personal experience of porting a game ( http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=717274 ), it will take awhile. Here is the process I used when making the game:
1) Collect image resources if any are possible to be used.
2) Research what kind of engines to use. I made the mistake of trying to use the basic image function in C#.net, which was a waste of time. Then I switched to GDI+ and haven't had any problems since.
3) Make a list of things you want to do on the program. From the required things to the extra fancy features. Sounds are extra features.
4) Prototype A LOT. Find what you want to accomplish, break its parts down into basic actions, then prototype of how to do that action.
As a language to start with, I personally recommend C#.net because its easy to use. It doesn't have the speed of C++, but it does have the #region/ #endregion functions which have helped me ENORMOUSLY with writing code. The region code can be minimized. With 2000+ lines of code per class and about 20 classes, minimizing code makes moving around easier.
Check the XDA boards or search online if your lost. If you need more help on porting code or making functions to do specific actions, message me and I'll gladly help.
HELLO Xda !!!
I am a Noob from Germany !!
We all who use Bada Os have a serious Issue with the APPS !! so i want to know whether U guys (the great guys who Ported Android to Bada) can Create an APP for Launching an Android app on BADA powered Devices ! !! (atleast for S8500 and S8530) !!!!!!!!!!!!
PLEASEE GUYSSSS U CAN DO ITTTTTT !!!!!!!!!!!
Try it yourself? You make others happy with that
wilmervanheerde said:
Try it yourself? You make others happy with that
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yeah ! but I just started with C and C++ !!! so I cant !! only the Experts like XDA can handle this !!
lol why you write random words with capital letters any emulator requires countless hours of developing and does never reach the performance of the original system. and android apps have many rights that bada apps don't have so it would be impossible to run these without adjustments in the app itself. if you need these apps buy android.
shadowkavi said:
HELLO Xda !!!
I am a Noob from Germany !!
We all who use Bada Os have a serious Issue with the APPS !! so i want to know whether U guys (the great guys who Ported Android to Bada) can Create an APP for Launching an Android app on BADA powered Devices ! !! (atleast for S8500 and S8530) !!!!!!!!!!!!
PLEASEE GUYSSSS U CAN DO ITTTTTT !!!!!!!!!!!
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Click to collapse
I don`t think that anybody would develop anything like that but everybody is waiting for Oleg`s release of the Android 2.3.3 for the Samsung Wave, so soon there could be a stable version of Android working on Bada. It works already but with a couple of bugs which make it impossible to use the phone for a long period.
In fact, this could be done with enormous efforts. As on the new BlackBerry PlayBook there will be android application support, it is not impossible from technical point of view. There are two different project for this, one is AlienDalvik (I think this will be on BB PlayBook, but it's just a hunch) and the other is IcedRobot (this one is in the very begining of the project). Google them for more information.
I think the biggest problem for us is the Bada SDK, as it is nowhere near ready to accomplish this big tasks... Of course this is just my 2 cents.
Edit: you can find some information about porting Dalvik here: http://groups.google.com/group/android-platform/msg/a177b156d338c513?
But I'm sure I'll not start it...
OK, just trying to make something else out of the bull**** about how cool would be to have a Dalvik port, can anybody say what API would be missing to have a Dalvik VM as a bada application? I know Dalvik is far more than JDK, but I never seen any deep analysis. Back several years ago I played on some embedded platform to put J2ME there (I do get the difference) and porting KVM to hello world level took me something like a weekend or so. Again, comparing KVM to Dalvik makes no sense but honestly, to say that porting makes no sense, we should at least have an estimate of effort and missing API.
BADA should open up then for its own good
If Samsung ever decides to open up more apis for an android apps emu
it will be best for BADA. Bada doesnt even have PSX, N64 emus like android has.
Im missing out on a lot of exciting apps like the ones mentioned because there is no developer working on these apps for BADA.
If bada ever comes out with an emu for Android Apps then ill be in line
im even willing to pay for it.
As for not performing at native speed thats what they said for the psx and N64 emus on android but look at where they are now.
BADA isnt that different from Android it just needs to open up more APIs to
take up the slack.
Thats all reliant on samsung.
the app could possibly emulate these apis too like calendar etc or what else is missing (dont know what it is). so for calendar just create an empty one...
or (to make the point clear) instead of using camera it could show a picture and the android app would work and just think that camera is not moving
...but i'd really appreciate an n64 emu for bada
If I wasn't precise enough I'll just put that in one question:
What exactly (as specific as possible) is missing in the API?
mijoma said:
If I wasn't precise enough I'll just put that in one question:
What exactly (as specific as possible) is missing in the API?
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I think you were clear enough, we just doesn't have answer to your question. I barely developed anything with the Bada SDK, just played with the different versions. But I know that there were no sprintf, sscanf, qsort etc. when I tried it. Maybe this is not issue with Dalvik. And I saw that SDL was ported to Bada (even if it's not free and/or publicly available) so big scale ports can be done, but I can't see the developer community which is capable and willing to do it...
anghelyi said:
I think you were clear enough, we just doesn't have answer to your question. I barely developed anything with the Bada SDK, just played with the different versions. But I know that there were no sprintf, sscanf, qsort etc. when I tried it. Maybe this is not issue with Dalvik. And I saw that SDL was ported to Bada (even if it's not free and/or publicly available) so big scale ports can be done, but I can't see the developer community which is capable and willing to do it...
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I don't think any library functions are to be the problem. Most of them are either easy to replace or source code is publicly available. I rather tend to think what hardware abstraction / OS interface might be missing. It is repeatedly brought up that there is missing API, but noone gives any detail. What I suspect is that missing API is far less important than memory requirements, but it'd be nice if someone actually had a look.
About the community I share the opinion that it'd be difficult to get the right people doing this. There is much discussion on XDA how to bring this forum back to developers, so we can finally see more people working than whining.
There is much discussion on XDA how to bring this forum back to developers, so we can finally see more people working than whining.
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oh so you think it is so bad to have a lot of testers who are ready to kill their phones to prove that you are working in the right direction???
i noticed the disappearance of the Devs like you, Adfree , larieto(but he is in vacation) , Oleg and others
i still don't get it
Is XDA bad forum for the Devs now???
Best Regards
mijoma said:
I rather tend to think what hardware abstraction / OS interface might be missing.
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Yep, you can be right. And according to this :
http://justanapplication.wordpress.com/category/dalvik/
"Implementing a large part of what is approximately Java 5 plus a large part of some version of the Android APIs (which version is of course another problem) is not exactly trivial given that many of the Android API methods are actually native methods, or call native methods almost immediately, and they often use Android platform specific features, for example, Skia and Surfaceflinger to name but two. In fact it is quite difficult to see how it can run the majority of Android applications unmodified unless it actually contains what amounts to a largish chunk of, not to put to fine a point on it, Android." (it's about AlienDalvik)
DalvikVM itself is pretty big and it needs a few libs to be able to run .dex files and a lot more to run Android apps. With the bada 2.0 we have approx. 240-250 MB free RAM after boot, if I'm not mistaken. This might be enough for some stripped-down Android libs+dalvik+app as we have around 70 MB for apps when booted into Android... I may try to compille dalvik alone if I had some time...
One more thing: there's a project to port DalvikVM to iOS with some progress: http://code.google.com/p/in-the-box/ so this is definetly not just a dream. In fact they have DalvikVM ported. (video here: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fhyd18h_as4&feature=player_embedded)
mylove90 said:
oh so you think it is so bad to have a lot of testers who are ready to kill their phones to prove that you are working in the right direction???
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I don't feel satisfaction when an unaware 'tester' bricks his phone.
I'd prefer people that would contribute their time and knowledge instead. With large number of people unaware what they're doing and later messing forums with requests/DEMANDS for help we are not getting any further. When I asked for help in relatively simple task of downloading and checking bootloaders with a PC app there was little response.
mylove90 said:
i noticed the disappearance of the Devs like you, Adfree , larieto(but he is in vacation) , Oleg and others
i still don't get it
Is XDA bad forum for the Devs now???
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Well, apart from me actually working hard in RL for past 3 months, I won't say much about others here at bada forum. Generally, XDA is going through hard times with developers being bashed and flooded with excrements from growing number of people feeling that clicking 'donate' is same as buying someone's time and other groups that think developers simply owe anything to users.
With going further down this path at some point the forum would have to change the name to 'xda-noobs.com' as all the devs would be gone leaving all that whining behind. Fortunately, the mods and admins do care and take actions, so I hope it will stimulate more hard-facts discussions.
anghelyi said:
DalvikVM itself is pretty big and it needs a few libs to be able to run .dex files and a lot more to run Android apps. With the bada 2.0 we have approx. 240-250 MB free RAM after boot, if I'm not mistaken. This might be enough for some stripped-down Android libs+dalvik+app as we have around 70 MB for apps when booted into Android... I may try to compille dalvik alone if I had some time...
)
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Wait a Minute !!! YOU CAN DO IT ??? Where can I buy the Time for you ?? Man thats an awesome News !!!!!!!!!!! I love to hear that !! !! what about the APIs and the things that other guys are talking about ?? Is it possible to bring it on BADA ??? AleinDalvik??? REPLY MY FRIENDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDD !!
Hold your horses as you're simply misinterpreting and clearly should go look up what is Alien Dalvik.
VM is one thing, runtime is the other. While compilation should not take too much time, creating runtime environment won't be that straightforward.
mijoma said:
Hold your horses as you're simply misinterpreting and clearly should go look up what is Alien Dalvik.
VM is one thing, runtime is the other. While compilation should not take too much time, creating runtime environment won't be that straightforward.
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Yes, indeed! I just wanted to say that I'll check if the core libs could be compiled at all without much modification if I had time. But Dalvik alone is not barely more than having a console based java re...
mijoma said:
Hold your horses as you're simply misinterpreting and clearly should go look up what is Alien Dalvik.
VM is one thing, runtime is the other. While compilation should not take too much time, creating runtime environment won't be that straightforward.
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let android apps run on non android devices
this is what Alien Dalvik does ,right ??
it runs on N900 !! cant we make it to run on Bada ?? Yes or No ??
shadowkavi said:
let android apps run on non android devices
this is what Alien Dalvik does ,right ??
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First of all, Alien Dalvik is a commercial PRODUCT, not a general concept. Dalvik as it is does not really require android to run.
shadowkavi said:
cant we make it to run on Bada ?? Yes or No ??
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When you say 'we' who do you really have in mind? What will be yours input?
If you wish to ask the question in that tone and receive a binary answer, then your answer is No.
Hello everyone. I was wondering if there is any way to convert the popular game, "I wanna be the guy" to the Xperia Play. Or for that matter, any Multimedia Fusion game. Since the game was made in Multimedia Fusion 2, and the source code was released, AND there is an option to export the game into android, it should be possible, right? If anyone knows how to do this, and will be willing to work on it with me, then please reply to this thread. Thank you.
The android export is only a placeholder-text at this point, it's still being worked on
Hmmm, well there is a java export. Maybe we could somehow import that into eclipse and then edit the buttons.
bballchace said:
Hmmm, well there is a java export. Maybe we could somehow import that into eclipse and then edit the buttons.
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Its nowhere near that simple. While Android programs are programmed in "Java" theres way more behind the scenes with libraries involved and other parts of the Android SDK.
It could be done, but it is a staggering amount of work.
Rogue Leader said:
Its nowhere near that simple. While Android programs are programmed in "Java" theres way more behind the scenes with libraries involved and other parts of the Android SDK.
It could be done, but it is a staggering amount of work.
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well, since thats basically out of the question, what if i got an html5 source code of a similar game that was made in gamemaker? would that be possible to port onto the Xperia Play? Sorry about me being such a noob, I am not familiar with the Android SDK, and only know C++
bballchace said:
well, since thats basically out of the question, what if i got an android export of a similar game that was made in gamemaker? would that be possible to port onto the Xperia Play? Sorry about me being such a newbie, I am not familiar with the Android SDK, and only know C++
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Creating a game using game maker will only give you the binaries not the source, you cant just use it to make an android or iOS game.
Honestly the easiest way to make a game for android would be to create it in flash and then put in in some kind of wrapper to make it launch natively. The proper way to make a game would be to learn how to create one using C++ which will probably take a good few months before you could even create something basic. It depends how fast you are at learning new things.
However if you are going to learn programming I highly recommend starting somewhere easier like VB or Java to at least understand the general concept of programming. (preferably VB is you are a total newbie)
bballchace said:
well, since thats basically out of the question, what if i got an html5 source code of a similar game that was made in gamemaker? would that be possible to port onto the Xperia Play? Sorry about me being such a noob, I am not familiar with the Android SDK, and only know C++
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That would be even more work than converting the Java program. There is no simple way to "Port" games from one platform to another unless there is an emulator (and they don't make PC emulators for Android, and even if they did it would probably run like ****).
Android games are programmed in Java, however the Android SDK has libraries to make it work for every possible function of an Android Phone. If you don't know Java, you won't get very far in making anything work on Android. There are also special libraries for the Xperia Play you will need to download and then program the code into the game to recognize the gamepad controls.
If you really want to do this I would go ahead and learn Java, make a few programs and then tackle the game. Its going to be quite the project, but you'll definitely learn a lot.
In summary I am not a developer just an android enthusiast with a very good understanding of the rooting/modding side of the community on multiple devices. I am trying to side load some apk's from my rooted Sony nsz-gs7 to the firetv in hope to get the IP Bluetooth remote (NSG-MR5U) to work with it but that's aside the point as there is already a thread on that.
When trying to install any of the apk's from that device I get "INSTALL_FAILED_MISSING_SHARED_LIBRARY" and I was hopeful that someone with a bit more knowledge here could help me deduce how I can determine what shared libraries its missing. Maybe someone can shed some light on something I can look into to try and move forward. I might just be trying to make the impossible happen.
The other part of this post is I am curious seeing as I do have root access to the NSZ-GS7 and its IMO one of the few decent google tv devices out there with root is there anything on there that could be beneficial for future fireTV developers, such as information related to the search subsystem, default launcher, etc. It would be neat to see if maybe some of the NSZ-GS7's functionality could be ported over easily. Maybe not but I wanted to extend the offer since I may be one of the few that have it. Thanks for everything you guys are doing, things are shaping up nicely on our fireTV's!
mattgyver83 said:
In summary I am not a developer just an android enthusiast with a very good understanding of the rooting/modding side of the community on multiple devices. I am trying to side load some apk's from my rooted Sony nsz-gs7 to the firetv in hope to get the IP Bluetooth remote (NSG-MR5U) to work with it but that's aside the point as there is already a thread on that.
When trying to install any of the apk's from that device I get "INSTALL_FAILED_MISSING_SHARED_LIBRARY" and I was hopeful that someone with a bit more knowledge here could help me deduce how I can determine what shared libraries its missing. Maybe someone can shed some light on something I can look into to try and move forward. I might just be trying to make the impossible happen.
The other part of this post is I am curious seeing as I do have root access to the NSZ-GS7 and its IMO one of the few decent google tv devices out there with root is there anything on there that could be beneficial for future fireTV developers, such as information related to the search subsystem, default launcher, etc. It would be neat to see if maybe some of the NSZ-GS7's functionality could be ported over easily. Maybe not but I wanted to extend the offer since I may be one of the few that have it. Thanks for everything you guys are doing, things are shaping up nicely on our fireTV's!
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I think it generically means you are missing part of the Google api or an associated apk. Have you added anything yet like google services framework?
Also, do NSZ-GS7 even run at least jellybean? if not that's one of your main issues. Most GTV apps prior to jellybean are totally different than normal android.
I finally figured out the deal with the missing libraries and now just have to troubleshoot a new issue with "INSTALL_FAILED_DEXOPT" which I'll chase down. Looks like the nsz-gs7 runs honeycomb 3.2 so not sure what that will mean in the long run but I'll keep fooling around with it while I still care. Thanks for the info so far.