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This is a new feature for WP7. An API will be provided for external services to validate that a call is coming from a Genuine Windows Phone. This will be accomplished by a requirement that every phone have a unique certificate applied during manufacturing process (similar to an IMEI, but more than a simple number, an actual .cer)
The certificate is to be stored in the "Device Provisioning Partition" during the manufacturing process and is to be destroyed upon completion of manufacturing. Any time a reflash occurs, a new certificate is to be issued.
This represents a significant change from the existing paradigm as your phone will be instantly uniquely identifiable through this method.
Bump for visibility
Is that going to make flashing custom ROMs an issue?
i think it gonna make flashing difficult..
if you flashed with custom, your WP7 would not be taken as genuine hehehe like Windows 7 lol
maharz said:
i think it gonna make flashing difficult..
if you flashed with custom, your WP7 would not be taken as genuine hehehe like Windows 7 lol
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
lol then you have to mod your bios.
On the bright side, we may have fewer reasons to flash custom ROMs on WP7. What are our current reasons for flashing?
1. We need new OS versions on our devices when OEMs don't provide that. Well, this is supposed to be taken care of by centralized update mechanisms for all devices. WP7 will also support partial updates where you don't have to change everything but rather update certain components. Also, firmware files should be replaceable - otherwise OS updates wouldn't work. We'll be less dependant on HTC or whomever.
2. We need components from other devices (newer versions of Manila etc.). Well, these won't exist anymore.
3. We want light ROMs. WP7 will need things added, not removed, for the most part, and crapware will be very limited.
vangrieg said:
On the bright side, we may have fewer reasons to flash custom ROMs on WP7. What are our current reasons for flashing?
1. We need new OS versions on our devices when OEMs don't provide that. Well, this is supposed to be taken care of by centralized update mechanisms for all devices. WP7 will also support partial updates where you don't have to change everything but rather update certain components. Also, firmware files should be replaceable - otherwise OS updates wouldn't work. We'll be less dependant on HTC or whomever.
2. We need components from other devices (newer versions of Manila etc.). Well, these won't exist anymore.
3. We want light ROMs. WP7 will need things added, not removed, for the most part, and crapware will be very limited.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Very true. With the OTA MS updates and such it will make life easier for updating the OS.
That could also bring a pitfall - hacking attempts that once worked get blocked.
Da_G said:
This is a new feature for WP7. An API will be provided for external services to validate that a call is coming from a Genuine Windows Phone. This will be accomplished by a requirement that every phone have a unique certificate applied during manufacturing process (similar to an IMEI, but more than a simple number, an actual .cer)
The certificate is to be stored in the "Device Provisioning Partition" during the manufacturing process and is to be destroyed upon completion of manufacturing. Any time a reflash occurs, a new certificate is to be issued.
This represents a significant change from the existing paradigm as your phone will be instantly uniquely identifiable through this method.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
1. Project Echelon, lol.
2. End of dev'n'hacking, lol.
(now, remove both lol's)
M$ REALLY thinks it may compete with iphone(and apple stupidity), can you believe...
The "uniquely identifiable phone" feature is probably the major reason for this. Face it, outside of these forums, how many "non-genuine" WM builds are there?
What this provides is a token-pair for secure message encryption and a single point of origin/destination for all those notifications.
Thank you for the information, Da_G.
So it seems this will also affect us being able to port a WM7 ROM to another mobile?
So this means evry phone has a unique certificate
They will look for a way around that. For instance...who's to say microsoft are even implementing the certificate etc on prototypes...that would be darn impractical since there's so much chopping and changing in this developer stage, and do we know the servers are up and running? We should cross this bridge when we/Da_G come to it, and look for a bypass if not.
I do not think this money will be wasted if we dont port it to HD2, the fact is I will be the first to donate when pre-orders for the first HTC WP7 handset is outed so that Da_G can use his tools for that too. The JTAG test point will be useful to the community and I know Da_G will use it for the community...actually there's very little personal stuff he could do, and I doubt he would anyways, since all the uses will be of benefit to the community.
We should definitely start look at alternatives to the marketplace now, like Cydia. I'm not sure how the guy's doing it, whether he has servers etc, whether we could use them for multitasking/social networking or other uses. Depends how far microsoft go. Anyways, we all know that if m$ close it down and we cant jailbreak etc, then the community will have to migrate to android.
if i understand the situtation. If every phone is uniquely identifyable it means that imei may be part of cert calculations which means update code would have to be able to generate a cert or request a cert from the update server.
But if the phone checks the certs validity reverse engineering the check could help us fake cert files
EDIT:
after reading on rom deployment it seems that it cert files would need to be faked in order to port to other phones and updates will also involve trickery of its own
Unless somone does something even more awesome
Hi,
i am new in here and just interested in what the new wp7 platform is able to do. I do not want to have a finish solution for it, only to know if it is possibly in general or not. I first would like to focus on two aspects ( other questions are welcomed as well)
I read, that wp7 is based on 6.5 with a few bought in features and that wp7 is quite limited in its opportunities anyway. I am asking that moreover, because microsoft said they will update their system by their own ( so no providers or manufacturers ). Which makes it a very interesting system for me, when it will be supported on the devices for quite long time, and not like the producers do just for a year, so they can sell new phones.
So my questions:
1. will wp7 be able to support a proper offline text to speech function (like in the old voice command)with its new bought in speech recognition. Not online like vlingo or google voice
2. is it possible to integrate a good working mass storage system like on android ( Without registry hacking or something else and not only for music or photos. I mean real data)
I always was a faithfully ms user but with every product i got more and more disappointed and i really would like to give them one more chance, but the device till now is completely not useful. They kicked out everything what was good on windows mobile and brought in everything bad from android and ios. So please tell me that there is still a chance this system will be great one time.
Gesine22 said:
2. is it possible to integrate a good working mass storage system like on android ( Without registry hacking or something else and not only for music or photos. I mean real data)
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Probably not?
doministry said:
Probably not?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Could anybody confirm this.
Actually, I know I will not be able to deal without USB mass storage. I therefore made it a condition whether or not I will keep my WP7 phone.
I like WP7. Still, if I'm sure that it cannot have USB mass storage one day then I will probably move to Android.
arturobandini said:
Could anybody confirm this.
Actually, I know I will not be able to deal without USB mass storage. I therefore made it a condition whether or not I will keep my WP7 phone.
I like WP7. Still, if I'm sure that it cannot have USB mass storage one day then I will probably move to Android.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I wouldn't count it out. iPods and other Apple products allow mass storage. I believe MS would too.
Cool. Thanks
It's all speculation, there is zilch of the detailed info from MS on the upcoming update.
They don't want you to fiddle with registry that's a given, so there might be a hack around it, but the recent events surrounding the USB storage registry hacks on the PC suggest MS does not want you to do that if you want to keep your internal system intact on the phone.
Someone posted this comment on Microsoft Answer regarding his Love/Hate relationship with WP7
http://social.answers.microsoft.com/Forums/en-US/windowsphone7/thread/cf7a9cc1-47e0-46ca-9d7a-b3601d20f1e6
I am in the same state of mind and fully agree with what is said here.
Considering that none of us here work for Microsoft, we all really have no idea what's possible. So your question is... well... difficult to answer.
The only answer we could possible give to your question is: anything is possible.
Anything Microsoft and it's team decide to do, is certainly possible, and more. The same goes for Apple's team, and Google's team. They can do whatever they want, its their platform, and their money.
Considering that you seem to be missing things from the Windows Mobile platform, since Windows Phone 7 is by the same company that did that platform, then everything you want and suggested is definitely possible. That's the bottom line.
Gesine22 said:
Hi,
i am new in here and just interested in what the new wp7 platform is able to do. I do not want to have a finish solution for it, only to know if it is possibly in general or not. I first would like to focus on two aspects ( other questions are welcomed as well)
I read, that wp7 is based on 6.5 with a few bought in features and that wp7 is quite limited in its opportunities anyway. I am asking that moreover, because microsoft said they will update their system by their own ( so no providers or manufacturers ). Which makes it a very interesting system for me, when it will be supported on the devices for quite long time, and not like the producers do just for a year, so they can sell new phones.
So my questions:
1. will wp7 be able to support a proper offline text to speech function (like in the old voice command)with its new bought in speech recognition. Not online like vlingo or google voice
2. is it possible to integrate a good working mass storage system like on android ( Without registry hacking or something else and not only for music or photos. I mean real data)
I always was a faithfully ms user but with every product i got more and more disappointed and i really would like to give them one more chance, but the device till now is completely not useful. They kicked out everything what was good on windows mobile and brought in everything bad from android and ios. So please tell me that there is still a chance this system will be great one time.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
First, wp7 is not built on 6.5, its new code.
1. Pretty sure the speech to text is built into the phone. Are you talking about something basic like "call Wife mobile" or something more profound like a college dissertation? I haven't tried to push it, but so far it hasn't failed me once.
2. I don't think you will see a real solution for this for quite a while. Microsoft is determined to have you use zune and skydrive for file transfers. I would be suprised to find a solution for this in the next year (other than a hack)
nrfitchett4 said:
2. I don't think you will see a real solution for this for quite a while. Microsoft is determined to have you use zune and skydrive for file transfers. I would be suprised to find a solution for this in the next year (other than a hack)
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Exactly. They push you to use MS services even if you don't have to.
Just like Google. That's why it's hard to imagine any mass storage soon.
I'm in the same boat.
Why do people want to use their phones for mass storage?
In order to do so, you have to reserve enough space on the phone to carry the files. So if you have a 16GB phone, you may only be able to use 8GB of it for your photos, music, videos etc, in order to keep 8GB free just in case you might want to transport 8GB of data around? Doesn't make sense to me.
All you have to do is use the 32GB memory stick dangling from your keychain, and fill your phone up to the brim with lovely media.
Weirdos!
Every user is different.
Many users will need the USB mass storage.
Whether you use it or not, at least let this option.
It's a smartphone after all.
Jim Coleman said:
Why do people want to use their phones for mass storage?
In order to do so, you have to reserve enough space on the phone to carry the files. So if you have a 16GB phone, you may only be able to use 8GB of it for your photos, music, videos etc, in order to keep 8GB free just in case you might want to transport 8GB of data around? Doesn't make sense to me.
All you have to do is use the 32GB memory stick dangling from your keychain, and fill your phone up to the brim with lovely media.
Weirdos!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
To easy and naturally transfer files between PC <> Phone.
And why do you ask this way? It's a personal thing "why". For some it was useful.
This whole mass storage issue is moot! MS have decided that the cloud is the way to go for syncing stuff, a method that I and my friends/ colleagues find very convenient, I do appreciate it might not suit everybody, in which case please do not buy a wp7 phone unless MS change their minds
@ nrfitchett4
Thanks for your answer. To point one i mean, not speech to text. I meant text to speech. I really miss that. I have to cycle or or to walk every day and with every weather. Therefore it is really useful when you phone read your text message or mails, or is saying to you who calls before you always have to get the device out of your pocket. For example when you are wearing gloves. So i have always just use a headset. The voice command for wm worked very well.
@ all others *g*
i think the mass storage problem ist not a problem about storage. I think people do not really understand how deep a software like zune or itunes attacks your personal rights. For the moment it is not that case. But microsoft, apple etc... and their partner companies lets say (sony, universal or what ever exactly know what is on your pc and that fact combined with a tight copyright policy could be quite dangerous for a lot of people. Moreover, they stick you on this way to their system. Its a different if you can not open a specific file on your mobile device because their is no app or whatever for or you even can not download to your device because ms or apple do not like the company who provides these kinds of files.
In addition i do not know where you live but i am travelling a lot by train or stay in urban areas, and than try get a proper internet connection with your phone. Its a disaster. So you can imagine how useful a skydrive is in such a situation.
Further can you imagine a business customer ( who ms wants to reach ) register for a windows live id to download their firm files to the device. I do not. No normal Business user wants to have a zune player to transfer their documents or whatever. Also, ms offers that sharepoint strategy. I really would prefer to have my confidential data on my computer and than on my device.
-------------
But thats all not my question. I just wanted to know if this platform has a real chance ( even most of it must be done by yourself, like on wm, anyway )All forums are full of missing parts on the platform and new ideas, but i would like to know if it will be possible to bring it in again?
So you perhaps should list all the things which will definitely not work (beside flying and cooking *g* )
Gesine22 said:
i think the mass storage problem ist not a problem about storage. I think people do not really understand how deep a software like zune or itunes attacks your personal rights. For the moment it is not that case. But microsoft, apple etc... and their partner companies lets say (sony, universal or what ever exactly know what is on your pc and that fact combined with a tight copyright policy could be quite dangerous for a lot of people. Moreover, they stick you on this way to their system. Its a different if you can not open a specific file on your mobile device because their is no app or whatever for or you even can not download to your device because ms or apple do not like the company who provides these kinds of files.
In addition i do not know where you live but i am travelling a lot by train or stay in urban areas, and than try get a proper internet connection with your phone. Its a disaster. So you can imagine how useful a skydrive is in such a situation.
Further can you imagine a business customer ( who ms wants to reach ) register for a windows live id to download their firm files to the device. I do not. No normal Business user wants to have a zune player to transfer their documents or whatever. Also, ms offers that sharepoint strategy. I really would prefer to have my confidential data on my computer and than on my device.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
That is the point and I believe these things will be added.
Cloud is not solution for everything.
Gesine22 said:
@ nrfitchett4
Thanks for your answer. To point one i mean, not speech to text. I meant text to speech. I really miss that. I have to cycle or or to walk every day and with every weather. Therefore it is really useful when you phone read your text message or mails, or is saying to you who calls before you always have to get the device out of your pocket. For example when you are wearing gloves. So i have always just use a headset. The voice command for wm worked very well.
@ all others *g*
i think the mass storage problem ist not a problem about storage. I think people do not really understand how deep a software like zune or itunes attacks your personal rights. For the moment it is not that case. But microsoft, apple etc... and their partner companies lets say (sony, universal or what ever exactly know what is on your pc and that fact combined with a tight copyright policy could be quite dangerous for a lot of people. Moreover, they stick you on this way to their system. Its a different if you can not open a specific file on your mobile device because their is no app or whatever for or you even can not download to your device because ms or apple do not like the company who provides these kinds of files.
In addition i do not know where you live but i am travelling a lot by train or stay in urban areas, and than try get a proper internet connection with your phone. Its a disaster. So you can imagine how useful a skydrive is in such a situation.
Further can you imagine a business customer ( who ms wants to reach ) register for a windows live id to download their firm files to the device. I do not. No normal Business user wants to have a zune player to transfer their documents or whatever. Also, ms offers that sharepoint strategy. I really would prefer to have my confidential data on my computer and than on my device.
-------------
But thats all not my question. I just wanted to know if this platform has a real chance ( even most of it must be done by yourself, like on wm, anyway )All forums are full of missing parts on the platform and new ideas, but i would like to know if it will be possible to bring it in again?
So you perhaps should list all the things which will definitely not work (beside flying and cooking *g* )
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Agree on the points, I could easily see the devices from MS pop-up running WP7 home edition and WP7 business edition if the platform takes off.
doministry said:
That is the point and I believe these things will be added.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Going on statements from the head of WP7 development on why Zune syncing is the only supported scenario, you won't see this options added.
adesonic said:
This whole mass storage issue is moot! MS have decided that the cloud is the way to go for syncing stuff, a method that I and my friends/ colleagues find very convenient, I do appreciate it might not suit everybody, in which case please do not buy a wp7 phone unless MS change their minds
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
So I suppose your company hasn't any policy forbidding to upload any confidential document to a server.
That's fine, but once again, let the choice to other users. It's also a question of freedom. Thanks for respecting this.
Gesine22 said:
In addition i do not know where you live but i am travelling a lot by train or stay in urban areas, and than try get a proper internet connection with your phone. Its a disaster. So you can imagine how useful a skydrive is in such a situation.
Further can you imagine a business customer (who ms wants to reach ) register for a windows live id to download their firm files to the device. I do not. No normal Business user wants to have a zune player to transfer their documents or whatever. Also, ms offers that sharepoint strategy. I really would prefer to have my confidential data on my computer and than on my device.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
+1
Could not agree more.
WP7 desperately need a 3g to wifi tethering app like myfi. I used to have an iphone but switched WP7 and now I need a 'myfi' like app badly.
Can someone some building this app ASAP.
at present it's not possible to even build one as there aren't any APIs for it. I'm sure this has been asked quite a few times on this forum already... please search... rather than just continually asking what people deem as a common requirement. also search the pinned threads as they're a good place to start for missing functionality...
There are APIs. Samsung phones can tether so yh APIs are there. WP7 is just CE with some changes/additions. Microsoft just isn't allowing access to the APIs...
Sent from my HD7 using Board Express
I would think that OEMs have a different set of APIs which provide them with native capabilities. I doubt the OEMs are writting their apps in just C# otherwise MS would have released those APIs as well.
also to note, those phones that can tether is done through the diagnostics, which would imply that they should be already in all windows phones and just dormant. i highly doubt it's specific to samsung phones. it may be that we only know how to do it with samsung phones now.
The Gate Keeper said:
I would think that OEMs have a different set of APIs which provide them with native capabilities. I doubt the OEMs are writting their apps in just C# otherwise MS would have released those APIs as well.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
That's my point. The APIs exist, as does the base Windows CE system.
We just don't have the development tools nor do we have access to that level of the system to be able to write those applications ourselves.
We're limited to sandboxed Silverlight-based applications, but Microsoft and OEMs can use Native Code and APIs we don't have access to.
They exist, we just don't have access to them. Apple does the same thing with iOS.
Thanks for agreeing with me, though
also to note, those phones that can tether is done through the diagnostics, which would imply that they should be already in all windows phones and just dormant. i highly doubt it's specific to samsung phones. it may be that we only know how to do it with samsung phones now.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Which also means WP7 supports tethering. The functionality just isn't exposed to users in the general user interface, that is why you have to dig for it. The same thing is true for Sideloading XAPs, among other things.
It's there. The OS is totally capable of it. WP7 did, in fact, inherit a ton of functionality from Windows Mobile. The difference is that the new UI doesn't expose it to the user, and applications (and the system) are managed in a totally different way.
There's a huge difference between "does not exist" and "exists, but functionality is not exposed in the UI."
Windows on a PC can access drives, etc. by device name, but that is not exposed in the UI - for example. The same is true for many features in WP7 that are there by virtue of it being based on CE and tied (although Microsoft would want you to think differently) to Windows Mobile. They just chose not to expose this functionality.
Not saying it's totalyl based on WM, since that's obviously untrue. If that was the case stuff like full Exchange support, Video support for MMS, etc. would be working.
But the fact that this stuff is there and they're dragging their feet to allow users to use it is what's keeping lots of users off of WP7 at the moment. It's taking them too long to make changes that seem too simple... Maybe for the sake of security, I don't know. They haven't really been transparent with early adopters, IMO.
EDIT: Also, you can call Native Code from managed languages (C#, VB.NET, Java, etc.), so I'm pretty sure they are writing their apps in C# and only calling native code/libraries when they need to. Writing it in straight C/C++ is [potentially] more dangerous than using a Managed Language with Interop. I can't see Microsoft going for that.
Hello,
I just got my kin two the other day but have been doing research on hacking it for a couple of weeks now. I am no hacker or programmer but do have some knowledge. I think we need to look at things in a couple of ways based on what I have been seeing in regards to what is working and what isn't.
The most promising thing I have seen so far is a zune hack. This phone is basically a zune with a phone. Windows CE and Tegra APX 2600. I was also successful in viewing the files on my kin two in windows explorer as a flash drive using the same hack that was available for the Zune. The Zune has been jailbroke. We should be able to do the same on this phone. One thing I was looking at is the XNA development kit from Microsoft that is used to program for Zune. There is a glitch in it that allows free access to Windows CE on the Zune. If we could get this program to recognize the Kin Two as a Zune, I believe we could get in!
Another option is finding an exploit (possibly in the browser). Run some javascript which executes some shell code allowing us access to the phone. This is basically a "drive-by-download" which has been done many times on pc's.
I am more interested in looking into the similarities with the zune at the moment but one thing is for sure, we do need more interest in this phone. I recommend asking experienced programmers on hacking forums or anywhere. Also... college computer science and software engineers are always in need of projects. Many times you can talk to the department head and a student could work on it for a project. So, if you have a college in your area, go talk to them. We need to spread the word and get people interested in the possibilities of this phone!!!
Lets hack this thing!!!!!
Have you guys tried asking help from Olipro or Cmonex? These guys are masters at creating HardSPL on Windows Mobile, maybe they can help out with this? It might even be a challenge for them.
NeoS2007 said:
Have you guys tried asking help from Olipro or Cmonex? These guys are masters at creating HardSPL on Windows Mobile, maybe they can help out with this? It might even be a challenge for them.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Counting that the above it's true, the problem is that we still have no drivers nor known way to "flash"/write the "created" HardSPL or a ROM on the device.
At least not that i know (no experience on the topic).
If they also find a way to do so, i could do nothing less than bow em.
We shoudl try and find some of the actual M$ devs that worked on this project. Surely they are angry about how things turned out and would be willing to dish Anyone seen any docs listing developers?
One word: NDA
Anyway, you dont need any docs, you could find most of them just doing google searchs.
"site:linkedin.com kin phone"
Meh.
About 2 weeks ago, I took johnkussack's advice (I think it was him) and went to LinkedIn to try t be friends with anyone who came up on the search for "kin phone". In the invite email, I just said that I noticed they worked on the Kin phones and would like to ask them a few questions on how one could write to the phone. I have had 3 responses in the last 2 days.
Guy1: didn't know because he worked on the UI for the Kin Studio
Guy2: kindly told me he couldn't release an unauthorized build and that he would be breaking the law by doing so.
Guy3: This guy worked on the phone for over a year. He first told me I was breaking the DCMA by hacking/reverse engineering Kin, regardless of intent. Then he said this important thing:
"You are absolutely right in assuming that the device is locked; in fact, it has a hardware lock that is common to many such devices. When the devices roll of the manufacturing line the programming fuses are blown (literally) preventing any further programming of the device. This is all handled by hardware so unless you find a flaw with that you are out of luck."
So if this is true (sounds like it is), the "dream" is over. Hopefully there is some way that someone out there can find.
If I get more responses, I will post them here. Don't ask me to go back to these three who already replied and asked them more questions, I think I made some of them mad.
Hmmmm... I don't know whether or not the KIN models will accept OTA updates so that's a good question to ask. If OTA updates are possible then it's inherently possible to change the software. I wonder...
Yes, it was me the one who said about "linkedin".
But i also said "in one word NDA". You should known even before ask that the signed NDA are also legal contracts, so i prevented before asking them.
On the DCMA, yes.. on the USA. Outside the big country, the legal question is different and may not operate with that law. (if ever). If they provide a normal (legal?) way to unbrick my factory mode here, or to use the phone options, then i wait for the cost for it.
And everyone knew that hardware was not the way, just at the moment where first flash attempt failed. "Dream" is doable by software, if anything is to be done.
What i don't get is why to ask for rom rom roooooms, where we need drivers drivers driveeeeers... or sdk's. We won't get it anyway from MS, but no flashing means a rom is futile, non useful,crap pack of bytes.
But i also said "in one word NDA". You should known even before ask that the signed NDA are also legal contracts, so i prevented before asking them.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I figured I just take a shot in the dark; hope for the best and expect the worst. Since the phone and suuport from MS was discontinued, maybe the NDAs would be voided.
And everyone knew that hardware was not the way, just at the moment where first flash attempt failed. "Dream" is doable by software, if anything is to be done.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Good to know you still think there's a way.
What i don't get is why to ask for rom rom roooooms, where we need drivers drivers driveeeeers... or sdk's. We won't get it anyway from MS, but no flashing means a rom is futile, non useful,crap pack of bytes.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I just asked if "there is a way to get around the write lock". Had I known ahead of time to ask about drivers or SDKs, I would have put that in the msg.
I strongly believe that we could operate with the device,softwarewise. there is proof that the kin NAND memory (for now on, called "Storage" as label) is writeable. Not sure on the Rom part.
Of course, i mean.. just use it as a normal writable storage memory.
I posted how it could be done and would do it myself but, again, i bricked my phone, and available ones (through bidding sites) are so expensive to buy another one just for this (+ $150). Don't see a way to get it internationally again.
And even doing it, i'm not sure about what could be done just writing on the storage mem....
If the fuse byte is burn't should not it have prevented you from bricking?
kintwouser said:
If the fuse byte is burn't should not it have prevented you from bricking?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Nvitem bricked, not flashing bricked. You can succesfully write to the NVItems memory. But i guess it's just configuration memory and not the one "fused".
I just want to mention that jailbreaking a phone is NOT illegal in the United States! Geohot hacked the iphone... Apple went after him... Apple lost.
Also blowing the programming fuses seems a little fishy to me actually. No other phone does that. The majority of other phones have been flashed. I just think it would be pretty odd for a company to do that so that they no longer could update it. I am not sure I believe him. If this really was true... then why wouldn't Apple or Sony be doing it? This also doesn't make sense since Microsoft actually originally intended on putting WP7 on this as well as allowing apps for it. Check this article out:
http://www.intomobile.com/2010/05/12/kin-windows-phone-7-a-lot-closer-than-we-thought/
you must understand, its not possible to blow fuses in the hardware, it would be a top news story if they were able to keep the OS running in complience with the flash memory without it crashing. Obviously that was a lie to discourage us, and i dont even think that was a real kin developer, because microsoft clearly stated that all kin developers would be moved to WP7 or another programming section. And it doesnt matter if its legal or not to jailbrake phones, if we are porting a new OS, we wouldnt have modified the original OS, which is what jailbraking means. Most likely the OS is hidden deep in the flash memory with a write - protection. If you think its saying access denied because they said the fuses were blown, its wrong. They must just have a password or code that needs to be sent continuasly to the phone to access files. If the fuses were blown, then nothing would be able to be accessed by zune, because it would be impossible to reach the memory.
soninja8 said:
Most likely the OS is hidden deep in the flash memory with a write - protection. If you think its saying access denied because they said the fuses were blown, its wrong. They must just have a password or code that needs to be sent continuasly to the phone to access files. If the fuses were blown, then nothing would be able to be accessed by zune, because it would be impossible to reach the memory.
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Not my expertise field, but this mobiles can (and in fact they do) have several memories, storing the OS in the ROM memory and all the data on the NAND memory (our "8gb" storage).
Zune software has protocols to query for available storages (requiring its label/id) and is allowed to write/read to it. If you dare to click on update version (at least in the 1st version I tried) it expressed that the option was not "available" to that device without web requesting data, apparently.
So.. in the nand flash we may only have the equivalent of a SD Card. And my last wince PDA showed that as /Storage too, apart from main wince ROM.
You can format the nand memory using win explorer if in fact it is the 8gig storage. I did this and it deleted all pics,albums etc. It was interesting to note that we cannot copy or view these pics without an access error but it does let me delete them.
I just wan't to be able to get my pics off this piece of crap without emailing them.
I posted it once. You are able to:
- Query storage properties (label, size, id,...)
- Query storage folders
- Query folder files.
- Query tracks / albums / playlist / images / anyZuneSupportedFile
- Delete * file (whatever)
- Format the storage
You are "unable" to:
- Upload (create) a file into the device
- Download a file from the device.
MTP protocol tools allows you to do so, from command line (not quite sure if they are available on Win32 OS's), but... fails to operate with this device when it comes to the "unavailable" operations.
I am curious as to which former developers you contacted?
I was doing some research and noticed that Microsoft acquired the company Danger, Inc. After Microsoft purchased them, the former president of Danger went to develop Android (later acquired by Google). One thing I read was that most of Dangers employees left after being purchased by Microsoft. Apparently these people don't like Microsoft all that much! I also looked into it a little more and found one of the founders of Danger who had a twitter account. Of course all of his tweets were via a "KIN". Thought that was interesting. It seems to me that these former Danger employees would be interested in helping out if they don't hold to high of an esteem for the big "M".
seems like this is your first "inside the move" trying-to-hack/reverse a thing, so i will say:
people involved doesnt wanna risk through legal issues, even if they were pissed off, just for "some kids" to have a driver or rom. NDA are strong there, and they could either sign them or leave (if leaving, they don't have the interesting things).
At most you would get bad-mood or good-luck comments, and ocassionaly (very uncommon), leaks (wont happen here).
yeah, they purchased danger for an amazing 500 million dollars, which they later developed the kin with it, they were planning to put windows phone 7 on it, but they were to behind and released it with the old windows CE, then the former developer moved to work on a free source OS, later called android. Google wanted to get android while it was cheap, so they bought that company, and made the old developer as 2nd engineer.
Maybe not worth yet, but we should get more *info* about the SBL mode (aka "Ms Pink Bootstrap), as coinflipper said that it was the way to flash OS or parts (like radio's).
I have been trying even OMA wap WBXML bootstrap examples with it, but as we dont know if our phone is standard, it's like looking for a water drop in the sea of possibilities.
We do not need a guide on how to do something, but what-to-do with it.
Maybe, JUST MAYBE, we could design a program like bitpim. I am a mac user and when I used bitpim with my enV touch, I used to edit all sorts of files. Examples would be phone info, server info etc. We could make a program like that to get the info. I know programming may be hard, but its worth a shot. I hate the OS on this phone, ESPECIALLY WHEN YOU PIN APPS! THEY LOOK HORRIBLE
Kinuser1 said:
Maybe, JUST MAYBE, we could design a program like bitpim. I am a mac user and when I used bitpim with my enV touch, I used to edit all sorts of files.
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We can't. If we have not the protocols or the supported phone features (protocols, drivers, documentation,...) you cannot guess it and put it into visual basic (or Xcode) and then by *magic*get the program you want.
i will admit that i know very little about protocols and drivers but i would like to point out that bitpim is open source, and that the code can be found here ->
http-//sourceforge.net/scm/?type=svn&group_id=75211 (change "-" to ":")
i seem to recall bitpim already having limited support for the kin, but perhaps with a little research and a little code tweaking we can find ways to improve it? i'm not sure how feasable it is as i have very little experience with programming for phones/usb devices, but it's just a thought.
slimeq said:
i will admit that i know very little about protocols and drivers but i would like to point out that bitpim is open source, and that the code can be found here ->
http-//sourceforge.net/scm/?type=svn&group_id=75211 (change "-" to ":")
i seem to recall bitpim already having limited support for the kin, but perhaps with a little research and a little code tweaking we can find ways to improve it? i'm not sure how feasable it is as i have very little experience with programming for phones/usb devices, but it's just a thought.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
We can't. If we have not the protocols or the supported phone features (protocols, drivers, documentation,...) you cannot guess it and put it into visual basic (or Xcode) and then by *magic*get the program you want.
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Click to collapse
The above applies to any software you want. Unless you magically found documentation or files (like OP), there's no way to. So f#cked.
The thing is always the same, tweaking tweaking... what to tweak, huh?