Develop Bugs

Window mobile 7 bad in some ways :(

well now that windows mobile 7 is coming out there wont be anything left fot the old phones (softwares -rom develpment - ect...) i was extremely happy when i heard its coming but i was extremly pissed when i found out it will have a diffrent installing system no more cabs . i have a a blue angel (imate pda2k) and this is why i hate the new windows 7
what do u guys think

Im the same mate, seems very iphoney,.......... can see everyone switching to android or buying windows 7 phones and installing 6.5 on them (like people where doing with xp when vista came out)

8 posts and already pissed? And the no cab installation thing is nowhere confirmed so far!

I think the lack of backwards compatability is overblown. It was time for MS to change their entire structure and get back to developing software...which HTC has been doing for them for the last few years. Here's a longer posting I did on it earlier: http://www.mobilitydigest.com/windows-phone-7-is-leap-forward/

Windows Embedded CE 6.0 features a completely redesigned kernel, which supports over 32,768 processes, up from 32 process support of the previous versions. Each process receives 2GB of virtual address space, up from 32MB.

Sina™ said:
Windows Embedded CE 6.0 features a completely redesigned kernel, which supports over 32,768 processes, up from 32 process support of the previous versions. Each process receives 2GB of virtual address space, up from 32MB.
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So what? It doesn't matter one bit how many trillions of processes the OS supports, when third party developers are not allowed to make their applications run in the background!

The way things are going with Windows Mobile 7, I can't see it lasting as a platform.
I understand why Microsoft wants to do this. The real money is in the marketplace, like how Apple is doing it. The problem is, the iPhone is a success not just for it's features or UI, but because it's an Apple product.
For example, there's been way better players then iPod, but people bought it for the status symbol it gives. Just like the iPhone.
If Windows Phone 7 isn't as open as Windows Mobile 6.5, then my next phone will certainly be based on Android. I expect a lot of other people to make that decision as well.
You can't expect iPhone or Windows Phone 7 to succeed? No Flash support, not allowing emulators, and complete control of what software you can install.

Dont panic guys, we still dont know much about the application side of WP7 ... Wait till next month March 15 for the MIX10.
Me personally, I dont mind "rebooting" myself to use WP7 new OS and app scheme.
I have no problem with semi-multitasking or no-cab as long as it could get the job done and has tons of very good useful applications.
Android is nice, but being in Europe, I feel pain to not having Nexus ... to not having Google Voice ... I feel not complete. I know, I will get that eventually (Nexus, but dont know about Google Voice), but if I have to wait, then it would be long due before I got WP7.
Yes true, we also dont know if there are some US specific services for WP7, I hope not.
Apple? No, I dont like it ... it is too common nowadays ... I am Windows and Linux user
Dukenukemx said:
The way things are going with Windows Mobile 7, I can't see it lasting as a platform.
I understand why Microsoft wants to do this. The real money is in the marketplace, like how Apple is doing it. The problem is, the iPhone is a success not just for it's features or UI, but because it's an Apple product.
For example, there's been way better players then iPod, but people bought it for the status symbol it gives. Just like the iPhone.
If Windows Phone 7 isn't as open as Windows Mobile 6.5, then my next phone will certainly be based on Android. I expect a lot of other people to make that decision as well.
You can't expect iPhone or Windows Phone 7 to succeed? No Flash support, not allowing emulators, and complete control of what software you can install.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse

I am also afraid that Microsoft will take away to many of our beloved freedoms (open for everybody to write programs, multi-tasking, customizing...). I have always looked at WM as a pocket computer rather then a simple smartphone. I fear this will not be the case with Windows Phone 7. There are just too many things threatening the mentioned freedom.
For example the leaked documents state that to use full multi-tasking you will have to let Microsoft approve your program. Given the history of MS I dont think they are going to approve anything without charging a fee. And why would someone even think that any of the many developers that have contributed freeware for Windows Mobile will be willing to pay for beeing allowed to use certain features of Windows Phone for their programs?
But sure we dont know everything yet. Lets just hope that future unveilings will bring some positive facts to daylight.

Well in those leaked docs, it looks like you'll only be able to install apps through the marketplace. I can understand how that will help developers and their security.
But if those developers are still charging ~$14.00 for programs, then that makes it totally pointless. I will not dish out that kind of money for a game that will finish in one sitting. No matter how great it is.
If they implement this, I hope they think it through. 0.99c releases, and if they allow cab installation (which I do hope), then downloading the cab from developers website would could cost the normal ~$14.00 instead, because it's a fact that it will be broadcast everywhere.
Marketplace is way too overpriced. Fix that, and you'll have a winner.

freyberry said:
So what? It doesn't matter one bit how many trillions of processes the OS supports, when third party developers are not allowed to make their applications run in the background!
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Click to collapse
a completely redesigned kernel

i dont get it ..
i dont understand what the problem is.. WinMo7 will be great for microsoft..
if everyone thinks multitasking and the ability to install cabs are so important.. iphones wouldnt be as popular.. and NOT everyone buys an iphone for the STATUS symbol.. it's popular because it has a lot of useful APPs.. and the UI is logical and useful.. unlike the current WinMo 6.5
I am currently using a diamond 2 and if WinMo doesnt have all these non finger friendly feathers i wouldnt have to tweak it. So i dont see such a major issue with WinMo7 not being as customizable, because if it's functional it will be FINE.
Another issue i see people having is not being able to multitask.. it's not like there isnt any at all... and plus what type of multitasking are you doing on your phone anyways...? it's not a computer, as long as you can listen to music when your doing other things isnt that fine..? and plus if i were to choose between UI speed to multitasking .. SPEED would win in a land slide... it's no use to have multitasking ability when your phone isnt moving...
i think the general population will welcome this change in WinMo7. It will be finger friendly, have more useful apps, and better UI.. this alone will win back the most important sector to microsoft.. which is the GENERAL public...

skg22086 said:
i dont understand what the problem is.. WinMo7 will be great for microsoft..
if everyone thinks multitasking and the ability to install cabs are so important.. iphones wouldnt be as popular.. and NOT everyone buys an iphone for the STATUS symbol.. it's popular because it has a lot of useful APPs.. and the UI is logical and useful.. unlike the current WinMo 6.5
I am currently using a diamond 2 and if WinMo doesnt have all these non finger friendly feathers i wouldnt have to tweak it. So i dont see such a major issue with WinMo7 not being as customizable, because if it's functional it will be FINE.
Another issue i see people having is not being able to multitask.. it's not like there isnt any at all... and plus what type of multitasking are you doing on your phone anyways...? it's not a computer, as long as you can listen to music when your doing other things isnt that fine..? and plus if i were to choose between UI speed to multitasking .. SPEED would win in a land slide... it's no use to have multitasking ability when your phone isnt moving...
i think the general population will welcome this change in WinMo7. It will be finger friendly, have more useful apps, and better UI.. this alone will win back the most important sector to microsoft.. which is the GENERAL public...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
the only thing that i want is: porting wp 7 or android 2.xx to touch pro.

skg22086 said:
i dont understand what the problem is.. WinMo7 will be great for microsoft..
if everyone thinks multitasking and the ability to install cabs are so important.. iphones wouldnt be as popular.. and NOT everyone buys an iphone for the STATUS symbol.. it's popular because it has a lot of useful APPs.. and the UI is logical and useful.. unlike the current WinMo 6.5
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Click to collapse
See this is part of the problem here, most of the iPhone users got it for a few reasons like because they wanted a smart phone but, didn't know better, it's a cool looking apple product or their friend has or talked about one. The iPhone had coolness factor, so that is why people grabbed them. A good chunk(most) didn't have a clue about a smartphone. I am diehard WM but, I'll admit the iPhone has some coolness factor and features I have been dreaming about for WM for a long time....
Now we move to Windows Mobile, there is tons of people who have these phones, why ? Because we can do what we want with them, tons of 3rd party apps, we can install them as we want to, on our time, taking after the model of a Windows PC. It allows us to make them our phones, not what the provider gives you and you have to deal with it.
The MarketPlace was a great idea and WM has needed it for a while. It also needs a way to manually install apps, like WM has always done to make everyone happy. It wants to hit the user market and the corporate market, it will need both. This will make both people happy, the people like us, who want to play, do what we want and the people who want a easy to use phone with the marketplace to get all there apps.
In this model, if the marketplace is kept up (always getting new apps), a newbie user would NEVER have to even install a cab for the entire time of owning a phone. This will allow a developer to be able to sell an app on media or on their own website for users to download and install as well as the marketplace.
skg22086 said:
i think the general population will welcome this change in WinMo7. It will be finger friendly, have more useful apps, and better UI.. this alone will win back the most important sector to microsoft.. which is the GENERAL public...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yes, WM needed a major overhaul, no question about it. Most experts think this is it, if they don't make it with the next version, they should get out of the game. The finger friendly thing is HUGE now, the iPhone showed it and they started some of it in 6.5, something that has been needed for a long time.
They have a good chance with this to bring the public back in, let's see if they can but, lets not abandon the people, like us, who made WM what it is today (we on here and PPG make good % of WM owners).
Time will tell and it will be interesting to see what happens here...I do look forward to the change but, still want it all, like it is now but, a lot better...

Dukenukemx said:
The way things are going with Windows Mobile 7, I can't see it lasting as a platform.
I understand why Microsoft wants to do this. The real money is in the marketplace, like how Apple is doing it. The problem is, the iPhone is a success not just for it's features or UI, but because it's an Apple product.
For example, there's been way better players then iPod, but people bought it for the status symbol it gives. Just like the iPhone.
If Windows Phone 7 isn't as open as Windows Mobile 6.5, then my next phone will certainly be based on Android. I expect a lot of other people to make that decision as well.
You can't expect iPhone or Windows Phone 7 to succeed? No Flash support, not allowing emulators, and complete control of what software you can install.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Except the iPhone is already a success! I think Windows Phone 7 takes the best of the iPhone and the best from Windows Mobile.
You don't seriously think Microsoft should have left Windows Mobile in the same path as 6.5 do you? or even Photon? It would have left Microsoft stagnant with the same marketshare at best.
Remember, the iPhone hasn't stolen from Windows Mobile (its market has actually stayed the same to a slight growth) but the iPhone has brought so many more people into the smartphone market.
It also amusing that you judge so quickly when nothing has been said about development except for leaked documents that do infer multitasking. Perhaps you can spread more judgement after MIX next month.

DavidinCT said:
Windows Mobile, there is tons of people who have these phones
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If this was true, you wouldn't be saying
DavidinCT said:
Yes, WM needed a major overhaul, no question about it. Most experts think this is it, if they don't make it with the next version, they should get out of the game.
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Click to collapse
Microsoft's market share was plummeting, yet everyone here on XDA acts like it was all good and now is when it will fail after their "freedom" is removed
Oh, and as for
almaster said:
i have a a blue angel (imate pda2k) and this is why i hate the new windows 7
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Click to collapse
I don't understand that sentence at all

why microsoft will continue with wm6.5
is they not satisfy for wp7s or the partner ( HTC, SAMSUNG, ...) not like it?
does WP7S made only for microsoft phones? same strategy of iphone?
like they say spain restaurant not have all the data on the net, who have?
i think WP7 not finished yet but they announce it early.

sjouni said:
why microsoft will continue with wm6.5
is they not satisfy for wp7s or the partner ( HTC, SAMSUNG, ...) not like it?
does WP7S made only for microsoft phones? same strategy of iphone?
like they say spain restaurant not have all the data on the net, who have?
i think WP7 not finished yet but they announce it early.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
2 pathes, 6.5 is for business business users (Pure business & no fun) while 7 is for having fun and doing SOME work done.
No iphone strategy (vertical strategy as steve ballmer said) "We sell software to people who make devices".
This is a good time in MWC10 (FEB) to announce WP7 so they can announce the Development tools in MIX10 (MAR) and release the stuff to develop with VS2010 (APR)

jaxouk said:
Im the same mate, seems very iphoney,.......... can see everyone switching to android or buying windows 7 phones and installing 6.5 on them (like people where doing with xp when vista came out)
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Click to collapse
I think you need to get over it if Microsoft didn't make this move, Windows Phones would be stuck in the same state they are now: old, retarded, slow and inconsistent.
This change is NEEDED and people like you are the folks that'll hold it back. Buy a new phone.

burnblue said:
If this was true, you wouldn't be saying
Microsoft's market share was plummeting, yet everyone here on XDA acts like it was all good and now is when it will fail after their "freedom" is removed
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
WRONG. They needed to make this move. The iPhone hasn't got much freedom and look at the HUGE adoption there.

WP7 is complete FAIL

No file system access:
No file system access means
a) you can not use it as USB thumb drive
b) you can not share files with different computers
c) there is no file downloads from web and no useful ftp clients and similar apps because they are useless without fsa
d) you can not open files with different apps unless maybe you email them to yourself, which is complicated but is the common way to get files on iPhones and it will also be like that crap on WP7
No SD cards
I hope I don't have to explain why that sucks. Terabyte SDXC cards are on the way and WP7 buyers are stuck with built in 8-32GB. And you have no thumb drive mode and no SD card to take out and load files on it.
No copy and paste
No, you are not dreaming to live in 2007. It really is 2010 and WP7 really has no copy&paste. Is this ridiculous or what?
No multitasking
People always talk crap like multitasking makes phones slow and makes battery life bad but really with a bit of thinking multitasking can be implemented in ways that do not have any bad effects at all and it even speeds things up because there is no loading times and of course push notifications also hurt battery life.
Plus there is lots of things that are not possible without multitasking. Say byebye to GPS tracking and stuff.
Marketplace censorship
They say it will be "objective" but everyone knows that is crap talk just look at current WM6.5 policies they are the same censorship as in Apple AppStore.
No native coding and no deep customization
Say byebye to apps that let you customize buttons or replace built in apps or let you adjust any advanced settings.
It is for sure that MS will not include all settings that users may need and there is no way users can change anything that is not in settings by default, because there is no file system or registry access for apps.
All the mentioned things make the user experience worse. Emailing everything to yourself sucks it's complicated and it is also complicated to have quick looks at info inside apps without multitasking and much more problems because of the stupid limitations.
To me WP7 is a complete FAIL. It can not compete to anything except for iPhone. I totally hate Apple and iPhone but I hope they kill WP7 so that MS realize how they ****ed up WP7.
I don't know why but in US, iPhone is a lot more popular and there is no Symbian. There WP7 can fight against iPhone.
But Symbian is the world leader and it is also very open, like Android and they have a new release soon, Symbian^3 with full visual multitasking (like Palm Pre) and multitouch and all that.
WP7 can not compete with that outside US and it can not compete with Android anywhere.
Sorry for grammar mistakes, there are probably a lot in that long text

WP7 is complete FAIL
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Click to collapse
You are from Europe, and noone but European citizen will understand this statement, imho(y know what i mean...i think).
I do. Although wm died for me with 6.5, wm7 have beaten everything i could imagine as succesor of 6.x.
WM7 is just death of pda's. They should name it TwittmarketplaceBS.
But let me be honest - people wanted another iphone, and they WILL HAVE another iphone.
We can stay away from that...nothing more...
People always talk crap like multitasking makes phones slow and makes battery life bad
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Click to collapse
This is just because lack of BRAIN, not multitasking problem.
That's why iphonelike bs is ONLY option for 'em.
Shame, there will be no solutions for thinking people soon.

I will stay away. But is is sad because now I have less phones to choose from because all phones with WP7 are already ruled out from my wishlist.
Why is that that Americans buy locked down stuff like iPhone?! Are they masochists?! Nobody in the world that is not a masochist can seriously want a phone where you have to email files to yourself because it is the only method to put them on the phone!?

Times are changing... The iPhone was the first step and it looks like it was the right step... Nokia, Android, Windows are going the same way somehow. I think it's OK otherwise WM7 will become a mess like the old WM. WM's fate is death for most people. Even for me, I've been using WM for yeeears, but for me it feels slow, dated, and yet powerful but at the end I end using the dialer, the picture explorer, and messaging system.
I have a ZuneHD, I love its interface, speed and simplicity; and it has a basic but enough multitasking capability. According to some videos that I've seen, I've noticed that the multitasking capabilities are even better in WM7.
About the SD Card... 8gb is enough for most people, and this is the smallest storage size that the new Windows mobile phone will have. The customizations... I'm sorry but most of the themes out there are [email protected], and I even consider that HTC interface is all bloated and slow. I'm sure there will be some customizations in WM7, it's just matter of time to figure out the way to do so.
The good thing, is that you have many more options like the Android, the iPhone or even Nokia, which new OS looks good enough to compete with all the new competitors.

sm3rtlag3l said:
I will stay away. But is is sad because now I have less phones to choose from because all phones with WP7 are already ruled out from my wishlist.
Why is that that Americans buy locked down stuff like iPhone?! Are they masochists?! Nobody in the world that is not a masochist can seriously want a phone where you have to wmail files to yourself because it is the only method to put them on the phone!?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
All I know is that my 4 y.o. pda with PHONE MODULE is working ok.
Sry, cannot answer your question...do not try to understand US citizens..waste of time, imho.
Times are changing... The iPhone was the first step and it looks like it was the right step... Nokia, Android, Windows are going the same way. I think it's ok otherwise WM7 will become a mess like the old WM
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
well, dude, PDA was not phone, but personal assistant(you know, computer ,not iphonelikebs) and it WAS ok, then iphone rose from **** and idea wanished.
All about that.
g'night guys.

daniel_rh said:
Times are changing... The iPhone was the first step and it looks like it was the right step... Nokia, Android, Windows are going the same way. I think it's ok otherwise WM7 will become a mess like the old WM
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Click to collapse
No Nokia Symbian and Android and also Palm webOS are not locked down ****. Only WP7 and iPhone are.
And also Android and Symbian^3 have very good UIs too so it is not necessary to lock them down to make it easy to use.
And even multitasking can be very easy to use, like on Palm webOS and Nokia Symbian^3.
Hardware base specs is good for the user experience but missing features and censorship is always bad. Apple started that **** but they were lucky because they had the only good UI so people bought their phone nevertheless and now years later MS copies them completely.
But today it is not enough because everyone now has good UIs so features like file system access make the difference. Plus there are still all the power users and enterprises they are many as well (and it is not necessary to be a power user to benefit from those features - using one's brain is enough).

sm3rtlag3l said:
No file system access:
No file system access means
a) you can not use it as USB thumb drive
b) you can not share files with different computers
c) there is no file downloads from web and no useful ftp clients and similar apps because they are useless without fsa
d) you can not open files with different apps unless maybe you email them to yourself, which is complicated but is the common way to get files on iPhones and it will also be like that crap on WP7
No SD cards
I hope I don't have to explain why that sucks.
No multitasking
People always talk crap like multitasking makes phones slow and makes battery life bad but really with a bit of thinking multitasking can be implemented in ways that do not have any bad effects at all and it even speeds things up because there is no loading times and of course push notifications also hurt battery life.
Plus there is lots of things that are not possible without multitasking. Say byebye to GPS tracking and stuff.
Marketplace censorship
They say it will be "objective" but everyone knows that is crap talk just look at current WM6.5 policies they are the same censorship as in Apple AppStore.
No native coding and no deep customization
Say byebye to apps that let you customize buttons or replace built in apps or let you adjust any advanced settings.
It is for sure that MS will not include all settings that users may need and there is no way users can change anything that is not in settings by default, because there is no file system or registry access for apps.
All the mentioned things make the user experience worse. Emailing everything to yourself sucks it's complicated and it is also complicated to have quick looks at info inside apps without multitasking and much more problems because of the stupid limitations.
To me WP7 is a complete FAIL. It can not compete to anything except for iPhone. I totally hate Apple and iPhone but I hope they kill WP7 so that MS realize how they ****ed up WP7.
I don't know why but in US, iPhone is a lot more popular and there is no Symbian. There WP7 can fight against iPhone.
But Symbian is the world leader and it is also very open, like Android and they have a new release soon, Symbian^3 with full visual multitasking (like Palm Pre) and multitouch and all that.
WP7 can not compete with that outside US and it can not compete with Android anywhere.
Sorry for grammar mistakes, there are probably a lot in that long text
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I think we should think the other way round, look how iphone is popular with its easy to use GUI and still its locked.
Most ppl are not techh savvy as us who loves to install cabs etc. People want out of the box experience.
So when a lay man (in tech terms) asks for a smartphone help, I suggest him iphone as it can do most of the task which it desined to no hangs etc.. Now I can suggest wm7 device for sure....
But wait whats the point of having a Windows phone if I cant customize... its not for me... first wp7 and then no wp7 upgrade in HD2 has made me not to buy any smartphone..
my 37 $ ***kia phone which I brought temporarily whin I lost touch viva... is doing a nice job... with 1020 mah battery , reminders, wireless fm, standard organigers ,,basic spreadsheet , notes...
Locked nature of WP7 has lost my in Interest in smartphones. I was like suggesting every1 of WM advantages....
WM sucked coz only on crap hardware and GUI.... and HTC fones saved its saved still it have 15 % share in smartphone OS.
MS is not sure where it want sto go......

WP7 is a complete pass for me. I don't need 1TB or 2TB storage. Hell my 16GB Zune HD is only 1GB full. Being an avid fan of Xbox live gaming, Outlook (Exchange) and facebook, this phone is a win win win.
Remember people. It's made for the majority (non-geeks) not minority (geeks).

Microsoft has stated that there will be a way to distribute applications outside of marketplace (for enterprise mainly). I'm sure we will be able to use this to our advantage for all the apps we want to get from here. They are basically putting in a backdoor asking for us to open it cause they know the techys want that opening. Now as long as we can figure out how to get access to the file system we will have no more issues. Maybe they just put in minimal restrictions to protect the normal EU but keep it easy for us. That second part is speculation only though.

Idiocracy of the Mobile World
It seems everything is so dumb downed these days...making things is a easier to do is fine but damn. For me I hear windows mobile I think mini pc but now it seems things as a whole are headed towards playskool sh!+ for adults. I blame newbies that dont/cant read manuals & use commn sense (u won a lottery u neva heard & u paying money to receive the winnings lol). I also blame the pos companies/people that push malware/spyware/phishing. Window mobile's customization is gift for the tech savy but a curse for impatient eye candy lovers. Hopefully with it being a series they have an actual smartphone edition.

wp7 will be a sucess. Why would you want a mini PC based UI, the PC UI is 30 years old..and for one a phone is a different device, why not take a different route? Half the hacks for winmo6X are too improve and and even make use of the devices hardware/software better,..wp7 doesnt have that..or is it needed. The other half(customizing) won't be needed since the UI has information across every inch of the screen, why waste screen space w/ a desktop like home screen on a 3 inch screen?

sm3rtlag3l said:
No file system access:
To me WP7 is a complete FAIL. It can not compete to anything except for iPhone. I totally hate Apple and iPhone but I hope they kill WP7 so that MS realize how they ****ed up WP7.
I don't know why but in US, iPhone is a lot more popular and there is no Symbian. There WP7 can fight against iPhone.
But Symbian is the world leader and it is also very open, like Android and they have a new release soon, Symbian^3 with full visual multitasking (like Palm Pre) and multitouch and all that.
WP7 can not compete with that outside US and it can not compete with Android anywhere.
Sorry for grammar mistakes, there are probably a lot in that long text
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I am with you on all that. It seems that Symbian will be the only Mobile OS that is actually OPEN and, without a doubt the most efficient one. Android and Win CE are hardware hungry, and that is why one of them (android) eats it's battery when multitasking and the other one won't even have it because it will "compromise" the end user experiance. What they really mean by that is "we need 2ghz CPU and 1 gb ram to run 4 programs at the same time" until then, take that "save state" BS that apple has been selling you for years already and be happy.

No native coding is completely FAIL
No native coding is completely FAIL

egmkang said:
No native coding is completely FAIL
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Click to collapse
why

Hi,
I wish i could say i completely disagree but unfortunately I think you're totally right :-(
first I was not convinced with the new user interface which is imho very ugly.But the announcements of today are the final stroke for me ! Windows Phone 7 is no more than a dumb phone with app support. The latest versions of winmo 6.5.x were really heading in the right direction I think and now microsoft is breaking everything with windows phone 7.Now I'm sure that the future of windows mobile for me is windows mobile itself ! no windows phone series for me ! Everything I hate about apple, microsoft just copied into windows phone 7. this really is not for me. Thank you M. Microsoft ! I'm so disappointed !
Thomas

Slow
havox22 said:
why
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Click a button , then you can get a sleep

egmkang said:
Click a button , then you can get a sleep
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Click to collapse
i thought they said that silverlight & XNA would be hardware accelerated, im no dev & know nothing of it but would it still be slow, cuz some of the things they demoed didnt look slow, but besides slowness what are the other drawbacks?

havox22 said:
i thought they said that silverlight & XNA would be hardware accelerated, im no dev & know nothing of it but would it still be slow, cuz some of the things they demoed didnt look slow, but besides slowness what are the other drawbacks?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
But C# runs more slowly than Native code,and C# has a big runtime called CLR and a lot of libs.

egmkang said:
But C# runs more slowly than Native code,and C# has a big runtime called CLR and a lot of libs.
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Click to collapse
lol what you just said means nothing to me i just told you i have know knowledge of any of that but thanks for trying to explain, nvm about explaining it ill go read a book on it, maybe bing it

il be sticking with the hd2 il be buying next week
only worry i have is i doubt we will get much more developed for 6.5 from now on :/

Boycott Windows Phone 7 Series!

Sign the WP7S boycott.. Unless you like Microsofts interpretation of an iPhone.. Lets reiterate all that M$ cut out..
- No flash support.
- No multitasking.
- No copy paste.
- No removable storage media.
- No other default apps.
- No USB mass storage.
- No sideloading apps (Non App Store).
- No customized UI.
M$ is saying F their current user base, its like they are saying you dummies should have got an iPhone.. I cant get any work done on this, 3D games and slick graphics are cool but not if I have to carry a laptop around with me. Sign this petition if you feel the same way.
http://www.petitionspot.com/petitions/7seriesphoneboycott/

Hold your ground!
We're not given up yeat ))
WinCE is WinCE.. ))) you can patch it a little bit ))
And there WILL BE copy-paste, but it's not implemented in current build.
I would bet, that most of the stuff will be available in some "jailbreak" roms. It's just will be different experience.

yeah i hope you guys boycott so that MS will change alot of that stuff & add it to my new phone i hope you succeed

I was waiting this reaction to Microsoft 'innovation'.
It is the general approach: if more than 50% employer crazy - product fit to it.

man... hold you breath...
1. nothing is official released, so all the pros & cons are speculations - nothing else. OK MS has shown somthing on MIX etc. but no one outside of MS realy now how near the presented system is to the final version!
2. WM7 should be an iphone-killer and an iphone is a device for endcustomers, not for it-pros! thats the reason why there will be a 6.x-version parallel to WM7.
So stay cool and wait for the final version, and when it arrives, you will know if you can live with an end-user-iphone-killer-device or if you will need a pro-user-device - than you have to wait for WM8 which will be a real new implmented OS.
WM7 is a quick reaction to the iphone - nothing else. microsoft has millions of business-customers which are using devices with windows mobile on. and thats the market MS makes money and that are th customers MS has to care about! Don't hype WM7 to much

It is the direction of the so called OS that is bad.
Lock it down! Lock it down!
I want my phone to empower me and give me more. I do not want some company telling me how to do things. I am not a Micro$haft drone.
Wherever you see WP7S you will see the iPhone. iPhone killer etc... It is iPhone younger brother or little sister...
Windows users are not iPhone users.
Microsoft is forcing the user to obay.

HerrVorragend said:
So stay cool and wait for the final version, and when it arrives, you will know if you can live with an end-user-iphone-killer-device or if you will need a pro-user-device - than you have to wait for WM8 which will be a real new implmented OS.
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Regarding this topic a quick search gave me following result:
While current (Windows Mobile 6.1) and next (Windows Mobile 7) versions of Windows Mobile are based on Windows CE, it could be that future Windows Mobile will be based on a completely different platform that Microsoft is cooking – code-named Midori.
Midori is an offshoot of Microsoft Research’s Singularity operating system, the tools and libraries of which are completely managed code. [...]
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This doesn't sound a lot better and is nothing but the next logical step from WP7. Though the news or rumours are from 2008 so noone knows about their reliability...

RAMMANN said:
Regarding this topic a quick search gave me following result:
This doesn't sound a lot better and is nothing but the next logical step from WP7. Though the news or rumours are from 2008 so noone knows about their reliability...
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2008 was around the time they hit the reset button so this is prolly true, i mite just skip wp7 & get a zune HD that & my tp2 should be enough for the next couple of years

I like how people are *****ing about so many things which they see "wrong" with WM7 with out realising they have been replaced with alternatives- weather they are a better solution is remained to be seen, but you guys are way to quick to jump the gun.
It looks good, and half the stuff your complainning about is as locked down on the iphone and Android isn't the ants pants either (while its open soruce as you devs call it- from a consumer point off view no-one should really care, meaning there is no room for Android)

Interview: Windows Phone 7 battery life, copy/paste, multitasking, and more
Some good reading material whilst we await for the last day of MIX10. And this is a very interesting sentence from the site, the Copy and Paste section.
Brix then goes on to say that there's something that Microsoft calls, "delighters." These are things that users want in the platform and can be announced any time between now and release... Nilay Patel of Engadget asked Brix, specifically, if copy and paste is one of the "delighters" and he told him "no."
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So if we raise our voice loud enough, they will listen, still quite some time before it comes onto the market, a lot can change. It would be amazing if Microsoft can strike a chord for both mass consumers and tech-savvy people with WP7S.
At the end of the day, I'm more likely than not going to get a WP7S phone, Xperia X1 failing me right now... Will look towards Android alternatives, not much of an Apple guy.

trinest said:
I like how people are *****ing about so many things which they see "wrong" with WM7 with out realising they have been replaced with alternatives- weather they are a better solution is remained to be seen, but you guys are way to quick to jump the gun.
It looks good, and half the stuff your complainning about is as locked down on the iphone and Android isn't the ants pants either (while its open soruce as you devs call it- from a consumer point off view no-one should really care, meaning there is no room for Android)
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no ive been a supporter of wp7 since i saw it, but what really makes me mad is how they took copy & paste away just because they can with absolulty no upside to removing it i dont even use copy & paste but still, i dont like how they just said no we dont want u to have it because we dont think you need it, all the other stuff i understand why they mite take it away but copy & paste?? wth & i could care less about iphone or andriod

Tried WP7 for the first time today (University of Surrey)

Today at my University we had a marquee out the front near the main car park talking about Microsoft Graduates and inside they were showing of Microsoft Surface, Kinect and Windows Phone 7.
It wasn't hard to get a glance, especially considering everyone was mostly interested in the Kinect, I had a play with the Windows Phone 7 handset.
To be honest, I was expecting more, I was really disappointed, there is nothing that it can offer except for flashy transitions and pretty colours. Yes its true that applications will be released to improve the phone's functionality but there is definitely a limit to that because of the current API.
I currently use a HD2 (and I have tried Android on it too) and I don't think anything can quite compete with Windows Mobile 6.5 (or a Jail-broken iPhone - which despite being a huge Apple hater jail-broken iPhones have fantastic functionality).
WP7 has a long way to go until it grabs those hardcore WM5/6 users.
Does anyone know how WP7 handles notifications? Is it similar to iOS? I hope not. Android nailed it with their notification system, I wish Windows Mobile had something similar.
The menu in which you 'upload to facebook', is it limited? Can developers add functionality to this menu, will you ever see 'post on twitter' or anything like that?
On a positive note, WP7 is smooth, looks great and Internet Explorer is a whole new browser.
(Side note: University of Surrey is broadcasting the Microsoft PDC10 live on Thursday this week and one lucky attendee will win a WP7 Handset)

WP7 notifications are kinda a cross between Android and iPhone. The biggest downside to WP7 notifications is that once it goes away, you can't see it in a list or anything.
Re: "WP7 has a long way to go until it grabs those hardcore WM5/6 users." - I don't think Microsoft has any intention on every going after the "hardcore WM5/6 users." If you're expecting WM6 levels of customizability and openness, switch to Android.

If they're there tomorrow, challenge them on the lack of file system management

AceofSpades25 said:
If they're there tomorrow, challenge them on the lack of file system management
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lol because some random Microsoft PR person is to blame for the engineering, design, and management decision to leave out a file manager.

RustyGrom said:
lol because some random Microsoft PR person is to blame for the engineering, design, and management decision to leave out a file manager.
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lol... fair point, but there is a small chance they may just tell their manager, who may just tell their manager, who may just tell their manager, who may just tell Steve Balmer.
To be honest, we wouldn't have this frustration if Microsoft just had some forum where they would take developers input seriously

AceofSpades25 said:
lol... fair point, but there is a small chance they may just tell their manager, who may just tell their manager, who may just tell their manager, who may just tell Steve Balmer.
To be honest, we wouldn't have this frustration if Microsoft just had some forum where they would take developers input seriously
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If you have legit developer feedback, you can post it on the forums at create.msdn.com. However, complaining about a lack of open file system support will pretty much fall on deaf ears as it's pretty much a done decision. The most we can expect to see in the future is some sort of a shared folder. Isolated storage is here to stay.

RustyGrom said:
If you have legit developer feedback, you can post it on the forums at create.msdn.com. However, complaining about a lack of open file system support will pretty much fall on deaf ears as it's pretty much a done decision. The most we can expect to see in the future is some sort of a shared folder. Isolated storage is here to stay.
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Well, all it needs is a shared folder. A sand boxed area (excluded from the OS and application files) where a user can manage their files, and third party apps can access those managed files if required.
I've made this suggestion. I still seem to get largely ignored. I get the impression that Microsoft developers are too afraid to think outside the box. They all seem to agree with each other all the time as if they have either been brainwashed or they're just afraid they'll loose their jobs if they speak up.

Nah it's pretty much awesome
I also used WP7 the first time today - and it's AWESOME!!!
Don't listen to this guy (no offense )
I think everyone here saw the videos of Walkthroughs etc, so I don't know how you can get disappointed by using it.
It's exactly what you saw, just quadrippel times more awesome, cause you actually see it for real and touch it yourself
A Vodafone store had a LG Optimus 7 and I played with it for half an hour.
I just can't wait till the Omnia 7 finally arrives here in Germany. I'll definitly buy that and hopefully be happy with it

No offence taken, but its not what I'd call awesome.
Thanks everyone for their responses, as for your advice for using Android (RustyGrom), I really want to start using it as a full time OS and probably when my contract ends very shortly, Android will probably be the way to go because I don't see WP7 adding its short-list of lacking features anytime soon.
Does that also mean, perhaps if you modified an image in one program, you couldn't edit it from another? Does each application really have its own restricted space?

gmatharu12 said:
No offence taken, but its not what I'd call awesome.
Thanks everyone for their responses, as for your advice for using Android (RustyGrom), I really want to start using it as a full time OS and probably when my contract ends very shortly, Android will probably be the way to go because I don't see WP7 adding its short-list of lacking features anytime soon.
Does that also mean, perhaps if you modified an image in one program, you couldn't edit it from another? Does each application really have its own restricted space?
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yes, each application has its own restricted space. The only exception to this rule are images and videos (I think).
I know all your images are kept in one common place, and apps can use a hook they've provided in the api to load images from this place.
Any other app you can think of that would require side loading of files, would not work.

AceofSpades25 said:
Well, all it needs is a shared folder. A sand boxed area (excluded from the OS and application files) where a user can manage their files, and third party apps can access those managed files if required.
I've made this suggestion. I still seem to get largely ignored. I get the impression that Microsoft developers are too afraid to think outside the box. They all seem to agree with each other all the time as if they have either been brainwashed or they're just afraid they'll loose their jobs if they speak up.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
That would encourage both sloppy app development and content piracy.
Are YOU a developer?
A platform that indirectly encourages piracy doesn't get first-class support from the industry. Only exception is Windows Mobile, and only because it is compatible with the DRM in e.g. Zune Pass music.
Looks lile so,e people don't take piracy serious enough. It's a huge problem, amd a few users crying about design decisions aided to combat it in a forum are pretty much worth doing it.
Lime Wire was just shut down by a court. The media industry does not play around, and neither does the law.
Sent from my SGH-T959 using XDA App

What a HUGE disappointment for a UI
Ok, so panes slide around. SO WHAT? The thing as I have seen it in videos looks like a PIECE OF JUNK. Just look at the picture of mine... How can you compare that or any of our WM6.5 phones on this forum to a BLAH screen that has three cubes on it? YECH. Is this is the way they leave it, I think that will be the end of WM. Just wait another year and there will be so few buyers of the WM7 phones they will be discontinued.

gmatharu12 said:
I currently use a HD2 (and I have tried Android on it too) and I don't think anything can quite compete with Windows Mobile 6.5 (or a Jail-broken iPhone - which despite being a huge Apple hater jail-broken iPhones have fantastic functionality).
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U got to be kidding me ... lol when i had the hd2 running windows 6.5 i wanted to kill myself...no way u comparing wp7 with crappy w 6.5

ajftl said:
U got to be kidding me ... lol when i had the hd2 running windows 6.5 i wanted to kill myself...no way u comparing wp7 with crappy w 6.5
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Lol exactly

ajftl said:
U got to be kidding me ... lol when i had the hd2 running windows 6.5 i wanted to kill myself...no way u comparing wp7 with crappy w 6.5
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Oh yeah?! So try to copy internet link and send it to your friend by sms.
Retard.

Is the name "Windows" Phone turning people away?

I'm not trying to be a Debbie Downer here (I LOVE my LG Quantum!)--but I do find it tough to convince people to get a Windows Phone over, say, an Android Phone or iPhone. I know there are several reasons behind this at the current stage of the game (lack of popular apps in comparison to iPhone/Android, pre-Mango APIs are lacking, missing what's now perceived to be "basic" functionality like cut-and-paste pre-NoDo, etc.), but let's think like a high school teenager for a moment here--validation is more important than individuality to many of them.
iPhone is hip
Android is hip
Windows Phone...not so much. If anything, "Windows" screams "geek." Should it have been called the Zune Phone? The X-Phone (similar to the XBox)?
Now I could be wrong about this hypothesis here, but in the off-chance that I'm not...how should Microsoft overcome this? Their partnership with Nokia may be a good start--the Nokia name pre-iPhone was fairly popular. At least this saves them from having to rename the phone altogether. People may be calling them "Nokia phones" instead of "Windows phone," even if some Nokia phones in two years may still use Symbian...
Thoughts?

I don't think anyone thinks Android is "hip" do they?
Many people I've spoken to have heard bad things about Windows Mobile and won't believe that Windows Phone is any different. Microsoft probably should have used a different brand name, but they'll pull back. The Nokia handsets will change everything.

killerb255 said:
I'm not trying to be a Debbie Downer here (I LOVE my LG Quantum!)--but I do find it tough to convince people to get a Windows Phone over, say, an Android Phone or iPhone. I know there are several reasons behind this at the current stage of the game (lack of popular apps in comparison to iPhone/Android, pre-Mango APIs are lacking, missing what's now perceived to be "basic" functionality like cut-and-paste pre-NoDo, etc.), but let's think like a high school teenager for a moment here--validation is more important than individuality to many of them.
iPhone is hip
Android is hip
Windows Phone...not so much. If anything, "Windows" screams "geek." Should it have been called the Zune Phone? The X-Phone (similar to the XBox)?
Now I could be wrong about this hypothesis here, but in the off-chance that I'm not...how should Microsoft overcome this? Their partnership with Nokia may be a good start--the Nokia name pre-iPhone was fairly popular. At least this saves them from having to rename the phone altogether. People may be calling them "Nokia phones" instead of "Windows phone," even if some Nokia phones in two years may still use Symbian...
Thoughts?
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Click to collapse
All I can say is, ever since Gates left, Windows has taken a turn for the better. Windows 7 is cleaner and more elegant than MacOS, is more feature laden and seems to be trouble-free. If anything, I would think the Windows name would be a positive for WP7. And WP7 is the most elegant mobile OS I've ever used.
There may be some people who are down on Windows, but I doubt that many. iPhone is just a super popular phone and the great many just prefer it. There's a reason companies always like being the first on the scene. iPhone shows why. It's same way with anything in the market...from food to cars. The first always gains the most share and loyal following.
Microsoft needs to innovate and get to market with something so unique that it is the first of its kind...that is being desired by many. It can't be simply a new smartphone. The iPhone has that locked down. It has to be a new type of phone. If MS can figure one out with WP7, they will have a new iPhone on their hands.

reminds me of this article over on zdnet by Matt Miller
http://www.zdnet.com/blog/cell-phon...-windows-phone-7/6011?tag=mantle_skin;content

in my opinion, yes
when people see my phone, they almost always ask "android?" and when I say "no, windows phone" the look I get is almost always the same, a cross between surprise and disintrest

MartyLK said:
All I can say is, ever since Gates left, Windows has taken a turn for the better. Windows 7 is cleaner and more elegant than MacOS, is more feature laden and seems to be trouble-free. If anything, I would think the Windows name would be a positive for WP7. And WP7 is the most elegant mobile OS I've ever used.
WTF! You do know, that they were developing Windows 7 before Gates left?
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vetvito said:
MartyLK said:
All I can say is, ever since Gates left, Windows has taken a turn for the better. Windows 7 is cleaner and more elegant than MacOS, is more feature laden and seems to be trouble-free. If anything, I would think the Windows name would be a positive for WP7. And WP7 is the most elegant mobile OS I've ever used.
WTF! You do know, that they were developing Windows 7 before Gates left?
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They also had Vista when Gates was there. They also had Millennium Edition and a few other horrors. They also had WinXP Pro 64.
The point is, Win7 is the best and Gates is gone.
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They weren't developing W7 when gates was there it was Longhorn\Vista

You guys really don't have a clue. Research before posting, please.
Just Google or Bing, Gates and Windows 7.

at45 said:
The Nokia handsets will change everything.
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Click to collapse
look, folks need a simple, solid choice. another phone from another manufacturer isn't going to change anything. microsoft is moving too slow. an update "in six months or so" doesn't cut it anymore.
they need to up the game.

So the topic is about Windows 7 and Gates?
Whatever. Gates is gone. WP7 is A/G. That's important.
And, I think that "windows" is turning people away. They should've called it ZuneOS. Or something like that. The magical brand of "windows" is not magical at all. I would like to call it Zune Phone. Or even maybe another name. Simple and cleaner.

I think it is somehow. It's easier to convince someone to try Bing rather than Windows Live Search isn't it?
Same applies to the phone, their marketing team could have come up with something if they had wanted that. And please, X-phone? Is that a phone for 12 year olds? The Xbox name would have been worse that Windows.
Ultimately once there are great phones, the phones name will do the job rather than the OS name. You don't usually talk about an android phone in everyday life, you talk about a HTC Desire, Nexus S, Samsung Galaxy S2, etc.

Actually, when you speak with someone about your phone, they usually ask "Is it Android?".
So, yes, it makes difference.

Windows mobile 6.5, windows phone 7, windows 7, windows phone 7.
Microsoft has some issues with brand identity here for sure. It sounds like WP7 is a continuation of 6.5, but it aint. It sounds like WP7 is somehow related to Windows 7; it aint. They probably screwed the pooch on the naming game, but hopefully as the OS continues to mature and develop it will garner due recognition for it's merrits.

When I first got my WP7, my buddy at work appeared to feel betrayed. He said "I thought you were moving to Android (I had WM6.5 before). I think it definatly does come into play. People that know a bit about smart phones will always tell you that "Windows Mobile was a bad system". No one seems to realise that WM became very good by the end of its life.

munkeyphyst said:
Windows mobile 6.5, windows phone 7, windows 7, windows phone 7.
Microsoft has some issues with brand identity here for sure. It sounds like WP7 is a continuation of 6.5, but it aint. It sounds like WP7 is somehow related to Windows 7; it aint. They probably screwed the pooch on the naming game, but hopefully as the OS continues to mature and develop it will garner due recognition for it's merrits.
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Click to collapse
Maybe once Mango is out, I will just call my phone a "Mango Phone". I'll see how that works

Titus_Andronicus said:
Maybe once Mango is out, I will just call my phone a "Mango Phone". I'll see how that works
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I was thinking about that.. If everyone starts to change it's name to another.. Like, everyone I really means EVERYONE. Even blogs. Instead calling it "Windows Phone", call it, IDK, maybe your 'Mango Phone'. Microsoft would have to adopt the name. Windows Phone could be just the OS. WP7/7.1 OS.
To me, it would be something related to Zune.

I think that eye candy also has a lot to do with it especially for the younger generation. When I think of andriod I see the HTC sense screen, wp7 is basically 2 colors(simple and plain) when you first turn on both devices. Something like http://jozefkocur.blogspot.com/ would appeal more, even with the same base colors that are there now.
I know that if I went with andriod I could get everything on it I wanted, how much I would end up paying(dont wanna pay for apps) and how long it would take to find them all is another story. Where as with wp7 there have only been a few apps that I would add for functionality after mango, all free, and a few others items that I would deal with.
Advertising would help more as mango gets closer, I see more ads for Andriod than wp7, there are items in it that need to be out there for the ave dumb joe that doesnt research, they just pick up whatever is pretty, hot and has cool features shoved in their face.

Dragon Queen said:
I think that eye candy also has a lot to do with it especially for the younger generation. When I think of andriod I see the HTC sense screen, wp7 is basically 2 colors(simple and plain) when you first turn on both devices. Something like http://jozefkocur.blogspot.com/ would appeal more, even with the same base colors that are there now.
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That Aero theme is just amazing, yet very simple. Easy to appeal to more customers with that indeed.

Wow!
MS should really do this way! And the another concept too, about multitasking. Better than Mango's.