Develop Bugs

Why is android so "meh" for games ;0(

ok its starting to annoy me now... but android has been around long enough and gotten a fairly large established user base that i cant see any excuse why our games are so CRAP compared to the iphone...
I refuse completly to buy an iphone.. in fact i point blank refuse to own any single apple product... i detest the level of control the force upon every one of there products... but as much as i try to argue the fact that my desire and android OS is superior to the iphone it falls flat on its face every time i see the games available for the iphone.... so what gives?
Is it that the hardware is so poor compared to the iphone it just cant cope with the games that work so well on the iphone? is it just that no one is making games
for android seriously yet?
I scan the market and see highly rated games like throttle coptor.. or abduction... i mean really? my 4-5 year old N95 had better gameplay !!!
I love my android in every other way ( not THAT way... god some peoples minds are in the sewer.. :0) ) but i just wish there were some decent games out there that could compete with the iphone ... i just dont know why!

Why bother arguing, who cares, you like your phone they like theirs. I bought a droid phone because it does what I want I could care less if it has ****ty games If I wanted to play good games on the move i'd by a DS or PSP.

If you take a look at Gameloft's games, you'll find they are pretty much close to their iPhone equivalents. Most of them are not available on the Market, but I like Dungeon Hunter and Nova.
The games market for Android is still fledgling, but expect it to improve dramatically over the next year.
Regards,
Dave

i was looking at a review on some of the gameloft titles ported from iphone.. and in pretty much every review it said the game was far inferior to the iphone... not so much graphicaly (although they did say they ran alot chopier on the desire) but the controls are meant to be awful... as for some reason the desire and other android devices cant cope half as well with multi touch controls?

the reason why is the apps sd issue.
iphones can use all of the 16/32 gb for app storage, android can only use the onboard RAM, which isnt bigger than 512mb usually. this limits the size of apps.
Up until now, developers have been hampered by the fact that every Android phone to date has had a relatively small amount of storage available for applications (a couple hundred megabytes as opposed to the iPhone’s many gigabytes). Apps are stored in the phone’s ROM rather than the phone’s removable (and cheaper) SD storage, which grants developers enhanced protection against having their apps pirated. But it’s also proven to be a handicap.
Many of the iPhone’s most popular applications are graphics intensive, rich games. But these games often require high quality visual assets to go with them. The iPhone handles these fine — you can download massive apps over Wi-Fi or through iTunes sync. On the other hand, while the newest Android phones are certainly capable of rendering high quality graphics, their ability to handle large apps is limited by the phone’s available storage. Yes, developers can choose to download their app’s assets to the SD card after the initial install, but this isn’t a good experience for the end user.
from now on, ie with Froyo and probably 3.0 gingerbread games can be stored on the sd card( apart from smoe kb files) this will encourage more game development.

bob dylan said:
the reason why is the apps sd issue.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Not convinced this is totally accurate! Most of the better games just have a separate download which goes direct to SD card anyway.
Regards,
Dave

I find alot of people on xda (as good of a site this is) stuck in the past!
I mean "if i want to play good games i'll buy a ds?"
So you deem £400 plus for a device a good price for something you consider to be just a phone? I'm sorry but thats nuts!
Believe it or not the most fun to be had with a phone these days is not changing what the battery icon looks like.
And to the op games on android are picking up, this is somthing i've noticed in the short time i've been with android,
Nfs shift for example, DS? I think not!
It's even said to be better than the psp version.
Then we have Raging thunder 2, Monopoly classic HD, Lets golf, Hyper jump, Hungry shark, Anytime pool,
Hero of sparta, Backbreaker football, Sims 3 HD, Crush the castle, Nova,
Tiki towers and also out this month Reckless racing and Angry birds, all good games
And to round off my rant HTC packaged and sold the desire as many other manufactures do as a "Multimedia device"
And gaming takes more money as an industry today than music and Movies put together!
Put's on flame coat and hides! LOL a DS?

Chivalryyyy said:
i was looking at a review on some of the gameloft titles ported from iphone.. and in pretty much every review it said the game was far inferior to the iphone... not so much graphicaly (although they did say they ran alot chopier on the desire) but the controls are meant to be awful... as for some reason the desire and other android devices cant cope half as well with multi touch controls?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
thats because the desire dosent have multi touch, it only has dual touch, that ok when you need to say move a virtual joystick and press a button, but if you need to use 2 virtual joysticks or 2 x/y axis's the desire gets confused n f'ks up lol

better drivers .. better hardware.. for a PHONE this is very good... asphalt , super ko, talking tom etc... all very good graphics... but it is . at the end of the day ... a PHONE... until the they are fully converged... will have to stick to huge games on your sd card .

Chivalryyyy said:
ok its starting to annoy me now... but android has been around long enough and gotten a fairly large established user base that i cant see any excuse why our games are so CRAP compared to the iphone...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
They're not crap at all:
4 Android 3D Games Worth Buying
A Look at Android Gaming: Video Overview of the Top Games Google’s OS Has to Offer
Android may have some catching up to do, but it's catching up fast

The Nexus One and the Desire use a Synaptics ClearPad 2000 touch sensor. Later HTC phones (e.g. EVO and Incredible) are using better touch sensor (see here for more details), and I expect this to be continued in the Ace/Desire HD and newer models.
So, it's not "Android's" fault - it's the hardware. That being said, there is no reason why the game developers couldn't tweak the controls to better suit the Nexus Ones/Desires touch sensor - they just tend not to bother because many of the games are direct iPhone ports.
Regards,
Dave

WP7 Smoother than Dual Core Tegra2 Android Device...Proof

Came across this video showing how responsive, smooth, and quick WP7 is compared to Android. How does the specs compare?
Samsung Focus
1GHz Processor
512MB Ramvs​Moto Atrix​
Dual Core Nvidia Tegra 2
1GB Ram
​
Even with the significant spec boost and advantage, Android somehow manages to falter to WP7. This is what I mean when I say you shouldn't compare specs between WP7 and Android. Android demands a lot more than WP7 to scathe WP7 responsiveness. Don't forget WP7 has only been available for a few months.

I don't understand how comparing propably really crappy and badly coded Motorola gallery to WP7 standard gallery proves anything.
I.e. pinch to zoom was already smooth on my G1 running stock 2.2.1 and stock 3D gallery. It's not Android's fault that Motorola can't code fluid zooming into such powerful device.
But it points to another problem. While hardware is more and more capable of doing amazing things, software just can't keep up. It was only half year ago when Google optimized Android to Snapdragon (famous 400% improvement in linpack on Nexus One) and OMG now we have dual-core devices. IMO Android can't utilize such power yet.

krjcook said:
Even with the significant spec boost and advantage, Android somehow manages to falter to WP7. This is what I mean when I say you shouldn't compare specs between WP7 and Android. Android demands a lot more than WP7 to scathe WP7 responsiveness. Don't forget WP7 has only been available for a few months.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Dual core CPU isn't going to make graphics any faster. It doesn't on desktop and it won't on mobile devices either. Dual CPU has benefits when multi-tasking and it also allows the GUI to run at its optimum speed while running other apps. If apps are optimized for dual-cores, they too will run more efficiently.
But simply having two CPUs doesn't mean everything is two-times faster. This video does prove that WP7 has better GUI coding.
raven_raven said:
But it points to another problem. While hardware is more and more capable of doing amazing things, software just can't keep up. It was only half year ago when Google optimized Android to Snapdragon (famous 400% improvement in linpack on Nexus One) and OMG now we have dual-core devices. IMO Android can't utilize such power yet.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
This is not a valid point. iPhones have been smooth and responsive since day one with lesser capapble hardware than the competition. Plain and simple, Android suffers from the same inefficient GUI programming that plagued Windows Mobile. Even if you made the Android device's CPU 4 or 8 times faster, it still wouldn't beat WP7 or iPhone smoothness and responsiveness.

I don't understand anything about hardware, tech specs or whatever. I am, in essence, a noob. But what's demonstrated in this video is the exact thing that drove me to WP7.
Coming from an HTC Legend and Desire, the most frustrating thing for me about the experience was how everything was a little bit jerky, how most of the functions lagged behind my finger input. Pinch to zoom and intuitive scrolling weren't that handy because they couldn't keep pace with me, weren't smooth and slowed everything down. Same thing on my friend's Nexus One and Nexus S. If things aren't smooth and quick on those devices, I'm not sure where Android's perfect implementation is.
That's not something that happens (to my knowledge) on any WP7 device. Before I get flamed, I'm not having a go at Android, it's just something I really love about WP7 - that the user interface reacts instantaneously. On a touch device, that's the most important thing for me.

zukа said:
I don't understand anything about hardware, tech specs or whatever. I am, in essence, a noob. But what's demonstrated in this video is the exact thing that drove me to WP7.
Coming from an HTC Legend and Desire, the most frustrating thing for me about the experience was how everything was a little bit jerky, how most of the functions lagged behind my finger input. Pinch to zoom and intuitive scrolling weren't that handy because they couldn't keep pace with me, weren't smooth and slowed everything down. Same thing on my friend's Nexus One and Nexus S. If things aren't smooth and quick on those devices, I'm not sure where Android's perfect implementation is.
That's not something that happens (to my knowledge) on any WP7 device. Before I get flamed, I'm not having a go at Android, it's just something I really love about WP7 - that the user interface reacts instantaneously. On a touch device, that's the most important thing for me.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
This is the same thing that frustrated me about Windows Mobile and keeps me from going Android. I'm impressed by iPhone and WP7 speed and responsiveness. That is a great feature for any device to have.

I saw this video this morning and was like..."really"?

the gallery on my gingerbread ROM on my HD2 runs more fluidly than both the phones in that video. I wouldn't buy a motorola phone if it only cost 3 magic beans. That's the thing with Android, there are so many different combinations of hardware, software, and skin versions that you run the risk of getting a device not fully optimized to utilize its hardware, but you also get choice and freedom for more options.
The iPhone 4 has a lower clock speed than any WP7 device and it runs much more smoothly and is more responsive in every aspect than any WP7 phone, by your logic then, you should own iPhone 4s, especially since you can get a CDMA in less than a month.
I'd take a tegra2 android device over a WP7 device any day of the week (as long as it wasn't a motorola), although I'm happy with having a WP7 and an Android phone so I can either roll with big ass tiles or more options when I need them.

Oh wow a finger race. If that's how you are supposed to go thru your gallery wp7 is definitely a winner.
Sent from my Nero powered Vibrant

orangekid said:
I wouldn't buy a motorola phone if it only cost 3 magic beans.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Off topic:
Where do you get these magic beans from?!?!?!! I've been searching for milleniums!

WM's problems IMO, were because the OS was too advanced for the hardware, and up until the snapdragon, was generally slow
now, we have hardware that is too advanced for the software
makes me wonder how fast does technology really update itself
but yeah, having dual core is pointless now. it's like having a ferrari engine but having no suitable chasis to put it in. to realise benefits of multi-cored processors, the software must be multithreaded (terminology?) or optimized enough to make use of the extra cpu available. or else, it will just be there leeching off the battery

@up You seem to understand what's going on, but it's sad how many muppets after seeing this video run around and scream: "OMG WP7 is SO BETTER THAN ANDROID" .
I think I'll make a video response to OP's video showing my Android gallery running as smooth as it can be.

krjcook said:
Came across this video showing how responsive, smooth, and quick WP7 is compared to Android. How does the specs compare?
<b>
Samsung Focus
1GHz Processor
512MB Ramvs​Moto Atrix​</b>
Dual Core Nvidia Tegra 2
1GB Ram
​
Even with the significant spec boost and advantage, Android somehow manages to falter to WP7. This is what I mean when I say you shouldn't compare specs between WP7 and Android. Android demands a lot more than WP7 to scathe WP7 responsiveness. Don't forget WP7 has only been available for a few months.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I have an HD7 and an HD2 running DesireHD Android. My DesireHD2 is as smooth as my HD7. Android can be as smooth as WP7, my devices are proof.

blanket said:
WM's problems IMO, were because the OS was too advanced for the hardware, and up until the snapdragon, was generally slow
now, we have hardware that is too advanced for the software
makes me wonder how fast does technology really update itself
but yeah, having dual core is pointless now. it's like having a ferrari engine but having no suitable chasis to put it in. to realise benefits of multi-cored processors, the software must be multithreaded (terminology?) or optimized enough to make use of the extra cpu available. or else, it will just be there leeching off the battery
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Most apps are programmed multi-threaded, it is not the point, the OS should be programmed to take an advantage of multiple cores (process scheduler, etc.).

Stupidity amuses me. What exactly is faster? Two completely different apps coded for different things?
The fact that articles are going up for this is more amazing. Ignorance is bliss.
Try loading the exact same app and doing a test.

MartyLK said:
I have an HD7 and an HD2 running DesireHD Android. My DesireHD2 is as smooth as my HD7. Android can be as smooth as WP7, my devices are proof.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I call bs
You are not the only one running dhd on hd2 and I can say
if you think the android on hd2 experience is nearly as smooth as the hd7, you are so far off base its not even funny.
Not even on a fresh boot of nand/sd will dhd be on equal level on the hd2 because of the ram limitation. And that is fact
And yes I can provide 10 million vids to compare/contrast both but there is no way in hades htc sense designed for a 768 mb ram is going to run equally well on a 576 mb ram. That's just crap
as for the topic, the key is optimization. Android is not optimized for dual core. so while android may have dual core processors, what's the point there is no optimization. At all. and there won't be for a bit of time.

domineus said:
I call bs
You are not the only one running dhd on hd2 and I can say
if you think the android on hd2 experience is nearly as smooth as the hd7, you are so far off base its not even funny.
Not even on a fresh boot of nand/sd will dhd be on equal level on the hd2 because of the ram limitation. And that is fact
And yes I can provide 10 million vids to compare/contrast both but there is no way in hades htc sense designed for a 768 mb ram is going to run equally well on a 576 mb ram. That's just crap
as for the topic, the key is optimization. Android is not optimized for dual core. so while android may have dual core processors, what's the point there is no optimization. At all. and there won't be for a bit of time.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You have your pinion, I have proof.

MartyLK said:
You have your pinion, I have proof.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
really? I think it's time I made another video

domineus said:
I call bs
You are not the only one running dhd on hd2 and I can say
if you think the android on hd2 experience is nearly as smooth as the hd7, you are so far off base its not even funny.
Not even on a fresh boot of nand/sd will dhd be on equal level on the hd2 because of the ram limitation. And that is fact
And yes I can provide 10 million vids to compare/contrast both but there is no way in hades htc sense designed for a 768 mb ram is going to run equally well on a 576 mb ram. That's just crap
as for the topic, the key is optimization. Android is not optimized for dual core. so while android may have dual core processors, what's the point there is no optimization. At all. and there won't be for a bit of time.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Please provide the source for your rant on optimization.

lqaddict said:
Please provide the source for your rant on optimization.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
android is not gpu accelerated. Who needs a source? it is not gpu optimized like ios or win phone
god even a google (a simple one) yields that
http://www.google.com/search?sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8&q=android+gpu+accelerated+OS?

I love how the Android fanboys crawled out of their holes like cockroaches to defend this. You'd almost think it was a personal insult...lol

Why Windows Phone 7 doesn't desperately need more powerful devices this year

I take no credit for this, ita a great article i came across that made the most sense in a while related to hardware :
http://www.mobiletechworld.com/2011...erately-need-more-powerful-devices-this-year/
As you have probably already noticed I was at Mobile World Congress this week so I had the opportunity to play around with some of the latest and most powerful handsets ever created. This year was obviously dominated by Google’s Android platform which took center stage at the convention with essentially every OEMs demonstrating or unveiling products running the immensely successful OS. What does it have to do with Windows Phone 7 hardware ? Well if there’s one thing that really garbed my attention it is the fact that not a single Android device I played with was as snappy and smooth as the Samsung Omnia 7 device I had in my pocket (or any iPhone model). Yes some of the devices on display were running non finalized software and probably hardware too but this has already been the case with retail devices like the Galaxy S and Desire HD which feature more powerful hardware than all the currently released WP7 devices.
I will repeat what I have been saying for a while: Android is the new Windows Mobile. OEMs want to differentiate their the products and one of the best way to do this is to use the latest and greatest chipsets, screen technology or other fancy hardware components. But as an end user, why should I care about the newest Exynos 4210, TI OMAP 4430, Tegra 2 if it can’t provide me with the same user experience as the now nearly 3 years old QSD8250 found in my Windows Phone 7 device? Similar to the old Windows Mobile days; OEMs are using Android’s “openness” as a test bed for their new CPUs and chipsets and are pumping out devices with crazy hardware specifications to show themselves in the press and sell device purely based on check list features: Dual-Core CPU ? Check. XX Mpix camera ? Check. 3D Cameras? Check. Huge Screen? Check etc. The issue here is that device manufacturers are more interested in time to market so optimizing the software to work with the hardware is just an afterthought. It’s not Google’s job to code the driver for the Samsung Exynos or for TI’s OMAP4. Google doesn’t even want to get the browser to use GPU acceleration for smoother scrolling and panning so the device manufacturers shouldn’t even count on the big G to give them any kind meaningful help in this department (Samsung has apparently implemented GPU acceleration to the browser in some unreleased Galaxy S firmware builds).
HTC has apparently learned the lesson a long time ago and has instead decided to milk the same SoC for while and instead just improve it’s Sense software layer every time it releases a new batch of devices. The end user is in both cases being presented with less than optimal solutions / offerings: On one hand you have new hardware that goes totally unused (Samsung, LG) and on the other you are buying exactly the same hardware but with an updated software layer (HTC).
Now let’s go back to Windows Phone 7 for minute. Take a Google Nexus One/ HTC Desire and compare it to the similarly speced WP7 devices. Which one is the snappiest and offers the smoothest UX? Same for the HTC HD2 running WM6.5 compared to the same device running Windows Phone 7. Microsoft has several big advantage with WP7 compared to Android. First, the have enforced strict HW guidelines and are currently only supporting Qualcomm’s Snapdragon SoCs and their Adreno GPUs. Secondly the Adreno GPUs are closely related to the Xenos GPU found in the Xbox360 so the company was already quite a bit familiar with architecture. Thirdly they control the APIs (Direct3D Mobile through DXGI and probably Direct2D for IE9 Mobile) unlike Android which relies on OpenGL ES and the drivers developed by the chipset manufacturers. The Windows Phone 7 ecosystem is like a console ecosystem with one set of drivers and APIs all controlled and certified by Microsoft while Android is more like a PC ecosystem filled with tons of different hardware configurations, driver versions controlled by nobody (Qualcomm even told me that OEMs don’t really bother including the latest drivers in the devices just because they are more concerned by the shipping date of the handset than with the end user experience. For example, as of right now the SE Xperia Play is the Android handset that has the latest Adreno 205 drivers).
Who would have thought that Microsoft would be able to easily port IE9 (which requires a DX10 GPU on the desktop) to Windows Phone 7 which only runs on a relatively old Adreno 200 GPU (DX9 capable) ins such a short time? Now take a look at the current state of the Webkit on Android: Yes it’s blazing fast at loading web pages on those super powerful handsets but after that the UX is simply anticlimactic because of the lack of HW acceleration. This is supposed to be fixed in Honeycomb on the tablets right? But where’s the smartphone version? From what I have seen at MWC the touch responsiveness of the Android 3.0 tablets varies greatly from one device maker to another. So once again Google’s lack of control of the hardware and drivers is going to hurt the end user.
This is not to say that Windows Phone 7 should be stuck with the current QSD8250. New high-end WP7 devices are going to be announced later this year because technology evolves at a rapid pace and Microsoft will obviously want to support higher resolution screens and video formats (and yes they are working on new Chassis but the Nokia partnership which was decided only last Thursday changed some of the plans), more graphically intensive 3D games and applications but the point here is that they are in no rush to do this because they can squeeze a lot more out of the first generation Snapdragon SoC than what is possible with Android. Everything I just said so far also applies to Apple’s iPhone which is quite similar to Windows Phone 7 and I personally think that there’s no need for Apple to switch to a dual-core SoC for the upcoming iPhone 5 given that the A4 is still powerful enough for 99% of the tasks (but if they do then you can be sure that they will have the software to take advantage of it). Android is obviously a really great OS that I enjoy using it on a daily basis thanks to all the features it supports but Google should really stop the madness and take over control of what should or shouldn’t be done on the platform. OEMs are loving it right now because they are free to do whatever they see fit but I really think that it will hurt the platform in the long run when people start to realise that they paying for hardware that most of the time isn’t used all or just paying for a software update (HTC..).
What Windows Phone 7 is in desperate need of is software updates filled with differentiating features and thrid-party access to more APIs so they developers can create more exciting and advanced applications.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Discuss...

Pretty much the facts.... I mean that is just an astounding article... spot on.

As an Android user who is otherwise impartial to OS wars, I wholeheartedly agree. For months now, I've been telling people that Android reminds me of the old Windows Mobile. Every WM7 device I have ever played with has exhibited exemplary smoothness and snappyness compared to any Android handset you care to name. It's a shame because Android is really good otherwise.
Sent from my HTC Desire using Tapatalk

IMO, although it would be nice to have, WP7 doesnt have to go overboard like Android is doing when it comes to specs as to dual core cpu's, 3d displays and such. I believe that they should improve hardware based on features such as front facing camera to add video chat functinality, perhaps a video output via 3.5mm jack (since requiring hdmi might be pushing it a little across all oem's) etc.
Im positive that if they bump up the cpu to support at least second gen snapdragon with its 45nm architecture, improved 205 Adreno GPU and much faster clock per clock compared to first gen, i have no doubt that besides the inmensly graphical stressing situations, WP7 would run circles round any dual core Android device since it being used to its full potential and proper optimization and drivers makes it not have a elephant on its back to carry

I think it is a given that we will eventually see more powerful Qualcomm SoCs show up in WP7 devices, and possibly other manufacturers' SoCs. This generation might become the "budget" chassis in 2012...Who knows?
What I do like, and want it to remain the same, is the fact that Microsoft needs to certify whatever hardware specs is used, so when updates are pushed out, Microsoft wouldn't need to run to each manufacturer and ask for drivers...

I'm sold where can I buy one? I kid, I kid. I have a Focus.
One thing is for sure, the overall opinion of the phone UI is excellent for all the listed reasons. Thanks for the post.
I compare this current experience to my experience with Windows 7 rc. Much like the day I installed Windows 7 to my lowly Dual Core (e2150, 2gb, 7200 HDD), it was good but not great in terms of speed, quick but not fast. Then, the cycle moved on and new hardware at low prices came into my life...
Now at Quad Core, 8 gb, Dual GPU, SSD, it is like driving a Buggati Veyron, downhill, on a 5 lane speedway, with no traffic. Life is instantaneous, the only limit...my ability to click as fast as it acts. ha! It happens as if I had on a thinking helmet and it sucked the idea out of my head!
I can only imagine wp7 on the set of phones that will come out...8 months...1 to 2 years from today...oh yeaaaaaa
close your eyes, think about it. Did you think about it? Think again, that's right. Amazing.
Wasn't that nice? Ahhhh yeaaaaaa
With dual core and a 2x faster GPU...oh my...it will get smoother and faster...hard to imagine and exciting at the same time. :splooge:
All in due time, I am happy with my phone today and happily have put my development time into other projects and not Wm6.5. Like this one from Johnny http://hackaday.com/2011/02/09/low-cost-video-chat-robot/

The current WP7 devices are fine. Just make sure you get one with 16G Storage and 512+ RAM or hope you're gonna be lucky enough to find a big SD Card that works well the first time. Data loss due to a bad/incompatible SD Card months down the line is... Unfun!
I want my next phone to have the IBM Watson OS

I don't really expect to see WP7 handsets with faster processors. It isn't needed. Every app or game being made will be aiming for a certain minimum standard.
I do see improvements coming in extra features (like a front facing camera). And I do expect to see handsets with more and more memory.
If the end of 2011 brought WP7 devices with the current processor, but also offered 768 MB RAM, 32 GB storage and a front facing camera, that would be one hell of a competitive device.
Then in the holiday of 2012 we could see WP8 push the hardware limits by launching with some really high minimum specs. But at the same time, still support WP7 for "budget" handsets.

They need sexier devices. I must admit the three buttons on the front do look classy.

Reflexx1 said:
I don't really expect to see WP7 handsets with faster processors. It isn't needed. Every app or game being made will be aiming for a certain minimum standard.
I do see improvements coming in extra features (like a front facing camera). And I do expect to see handsets with more and more memory.
If the end of 2011 brought WP7 devices with the current processor, but also offered 768 MB RAM, 32 GB storage and a front facing camera, that would be one hell of a competitive device.
Then in the holiday of 2012 we could see WP8 push the hardware limits by launching with some really high minimum specs. But at the same time, still support WP7 for "budget" handsets.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
The minimum specs must be maintained and they must be maintained at a level that ensures user experience will not be compromised for people who bought launch devices. In the holiday season of 2012 people will still be stuck on contract with current devices, probably for months to come.
All of a sudden apps will be updated in a way that their phones will choke running these apps.
Just upping the minimum specs because you think it sounds cute is a dumb idea. I doubt Microsoft will do it, and if they do, people will sort of laugh at them and they will lose a ton of customers. By then RIM will have QNX Blackberries and WebOS may be well-developed. There will be even more choices than we have today...
They really have to take an "Apple" approach to hardware support, IMO. It's the only thing that makes sense sort of overspeccing your devices and enticing a bunch of geeks to upgrade their phones every year for major software updates/bug fixes every 9 months to a year.

Yeah but is it partially due to room? I mean, Sense ROMs running slower than the cleaned up and simpler AOSP ROMs? I get the lack of acceleration ... a d understand the end result and why people might complain ... but my phone is snappy even though at times I notice slow down .. but that is hardly reason to ignore stability updates, even others. I mean , while my phone might be running smooth here ... it may slow down there. I see the choppy scroll .. but I've seen friends WP7 - uh, phones? - slow down at times too.
I get sick of this WP7 is constantly butter because its not. More often than not? Sure. But I rarely get agitated at the speed of mu device and most don't either ... sure I can see it, but I've also seen my.phone jump as much as my friends WP7 devices. It all depends. Overall, sure ... but it still doesnt touch iOS. To think you are major steps ahead is hype. More overhead here .... lack of acceleration here ... it's not shocking when you think about it. Android uses more resources and overhead ... you have such q standardized system. Its almost not surprising. And it's NOT suggestive of you being "good" at the moment.
Sent from my PC36100 using XDA App

That's a great article. I agree 100%. I had a Samsung Galaxy S and with it's freshest time it had the most powerful chips int the markets, but even today it is not lag free, because of crappy Samsung optimizations to the software. That's why I really don't believe the new Galaxy S II will be any better with it's dual core. You could see it from the videos, that it's laggy at the moment and I don't believe Samsung will get it lag free ever.

fast hardware = bad ?
this smacks of hardware envy something terrible.
surrrrre, android + quad cores will suck... but wp8 will be perfect. whatever, if ever.

N8ter said:
The current WP7 devices are fine. Just make sure you get one with 16G Storage and 512+ RAM or hope you're gonna be lucky enough to find a big SD Card that works well the first time. Data loss due to a bad/incompatible SD Card months down the line is... Unfun!
I want my next phone to have the IBM Watson OS
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Why is 512+ RAM important, I was thing about getting the HTC 7 Pro, which only has 448 RAM and also is 16gb necessary if I don't use my phone as a media player as HTC 7 Pro only has 8gb as well?

Beesneazy, you're either completely full of crap or just delusional. I mean wow. Android fanboyism at its ugliest. Yeesh.
Ohgood, did you read the article? If you did, perhaps it's time to go back to Hooked on Phonics to work on word comprehension...
Anyhow, on topic, I completely agree with the article posted by OP. Kiddies like these Android fanboys love to deny the truth but it is what it is. Did everyone really think Microsoft would just sit back and be pummeled in the mobile phone market forever? With the right moves in the future WP7 will be huge. Maybe knock Android back down to third or fourth place and setup a head to head with iOS...
Sent from my HD7 using Board Express

ohgood said:
this smacks of hardware envy something terrible.
surrrrre, android + quad cores will suck... but wp8 will be perfect. whatever, if ever.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yes, and when you get your quad core phones that are still lagging, and still dont recieve the latest updates, and are still running a version of android that is essentially a pallet swap of 2.1 and still looks like a low end iphone we'll be happy with our maybe dual or maybe quad-core phones that run smoother, have better games (because aside from iphone ports and maybe 1-2 other games androids selection is just terrible), have a decent media player, have oustanding integration with business and personal matters, and we'll actually have a NEW OS not just an overhyped pallet swap of the previous version.

Fact WP7 will never catch Android or IOS.
Sure WP7 is nice. Serious competitor, nope.
Think realistic and remove your love affair. Maybe WP7 can be 5th place or if things go well 4th place.
Now flame on.

N8ter said:
The minimum specs must be maintained and they must be maintained at a level that ensures user experience will not be compromised for people who bought launch devices. In the holiday season of 2012 people will still be stuck on contract with current devices, probably for months to come.
All of a sudden apps will be updated in a way that their phones will choke running these apps.
Just upping the minimum specs because you think it sounds cute is a dumb idea. I doubt Microsoft will do it, and if they do, people will sort of laugh at them and they will lose a ton of customers. By then RIM will have QNX Blackberries and WebOS may be well-developed. There will be even more choices than we have today...
They really have to take an "Apple" approach to hardware support, IMO. It's the only thing that makes sense sort of overspeccing your devices and enticing a bunch of geeks to upgrade their phones every year for major software updates/bug fixes every 9 months to a year.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I'm not sure what you're attempting to address when you quoted me. I never mentioned changing the minimum specs of WP7.
And I think it's pretty much guaranteed that WP8 will have a completely different set of minimum specs. Do you expect it to never change?

vetvito said:
They need sexier devices. I must admit the three buttons on the front do look classy.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Exactly! I agree they don't need more powerful devices but they do need more appealing hardware (for a start a 32GB device would do no harm).
vetvito said:
Fact WP7 will never catch Android or IOS.
Sure WP7 is nice. Serious competitor, nope.
Think realistic and remove your love affair. Maybe WP7 can be 5th place or if things go well 4th place.
Now flame on.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Sad but true. WP7 is quite late and if you think about it the real launch will be with Nokia, I doubt they'll sell anything before that as nothing has changed since October.

vetvito said:
Fact WP7 will never catch Android or IOS.
Sure WP7 is nice. Serious competitor, nope.
Think realistic and remove your love affair. Maybe WP7 can be 5th place or if things go well 4th place.
Now flame on.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
this is true only because the majority of cellphone owners are complete morons.

Your Opinions About The Galaxy Nexus and Ice Cream Sandwich

The question is pretty simple: What you guys think about the latest Google dessert?
Here is part of the Dream in Tech team's opinion: http://www.dreamintech.net/2011/10/opinion-corner-android-4-0-ice-cream-sandwich/
The blog is still in the beginning, but we are working hard to make it great.

Well, to put it simply.
ICS > iOS5 and Galaxy Nexus > iPhone 4s
At least the Android flagship device actually has new features... *whip_sound.mp3*

Gavisann said:
Well, to put it simply.
ICS > iOS5 and Galaxy Nexus > iPhone 4s
At least the Android flagship device actually has new features... *whip_sound.mp3*
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
^ Says the only guy on the staff that has not started to write his opinion in the post

I'm very impressed by the device.
But analizing that I don't think I'd be so keen to buy it if it wasn't for ICS, In much the same way that iOS5 makes the iPhone4S.
That said, I'm loving the curve of the device, I always found the one on the Nexus S to be too deep, but the Galaxy Nexus seems to look perfect with it.
I know it's not Sammy's way, but some aluminium would have been nice, I guess thats just a personal preference. Lets wait and see how good this Hyper-skin is
Lack of a beatiful UI and clean uniform patterns has always been a gripe of mine in Android and I'm very excited to see everything coming together for the first time.

the inline spellchecker, keyboard, new notifications, swipebetweens are what I liked from 4.0, but the phone itself is meh =\ No SD card slot, 5Mpx, expensive carrier, meh chipset, and no hardware navigation buttons are enough to turn me off. I can't believe how good the phone is despite the fact that that it falls short in key areas =[

xxhorseriderxxx said:
no hardware navigation buttons are enough to turn me off.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Why is this?
I'm liking how they're virtual.
Slightly disappointing that they're there at all, have you used a Blackberry play book or MacOS Lion, the gestures on both of these are fantastic and I'd hope that android would more to something similar in the future

From what I've seen, the package certainly looks very impressive. The screen looks amazing...super AMOLED is already awesome but now in HD! Wow.
The dual core 1.2 ghz CPU is standard...the fact that its a Texas Instruments rather than Exynos is not a biggie for me. They are both comparable...its all about software optimizations in the end.
5MP camera is good enough...more megapixels does not necessarily mean much after 5. Ram is standard 1 gigabyte which is very good.
Now onto ICS. Very impressed from what I've seen again. It looks a lot like honeycomb for tablets which is good. It looks quite smooth and fast.
I've read somewhere that GPU acceleration has been confirmed to have been implemented but I'm not sure. I've not read any official confirmation of that. Perhaps someone can clear it up for me here. If it has then great. It was my number one priority for ICS.
Overall, there seems to be a lot of new features in ICS but only hands on time will tell. It certainly looks great. Smooth and very Fast!
The hardware of the galaxy nexus is awesome i think. 32 gigabyte storage is also important. I do wish however that they had included an SD card slot. But I'm sure 32 should be enough for most.
Sent from my Nexus S using XDA App

I would love ICS.
I do not want the GN.

GalaxyNexus is a meh! spec compared to S2.
SG3 will be announced 2012 January.
Rumor says it will have quad core.
If so, then I think I'll bypass GalaxyNexus and wait for S3.

zeitgeb3r said:
GalaxyNexus is a meh! spec compared to S2.
SG3 will be announced 2012 January.
Rumor says it will have quad core.
If so, then I think I'll bypass GalaxyNexus and wait for S3.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Honestly i dont understand the craziness about quad cores. Aside from 1gig of ram and standard 1ghz dual chip i could care less about quad cores in phones.
I'm not having a go...i mean really, what would one do with a quad core phone that one couldn't do with a dual core. Software optimization is the key now i think.
Aside from high Res graphics for certain games i do not see the fascination with quad cores and dual gpus etc.
There comes a point where the specs cannot really add much more to the overall experience anymore. I think we are getting to that point now. The software is gonna be the most important aspect from now on i think. We finally have incredible powerful hardware, but there are still lags and slowdowns etc.
These wont change with quad cores or double tripple quad dual cores or whatever. What is needed is software optimizations. Optimizations that fully take advantage of the available hardware. Only this will fix our lags and slowdowns and enhance our usage of mobile computing.
Sent from my Nexus S using XDA App

voyager_s said:
Honestly i dont understand the craziness about quad cores. Aside from 1gig of ram and standard 1ghz dual chip i could care less about quad cores in phones.
I'm not having a go...i mean really, what would one do with a quad core phone that one couldn't do with a dual core. Software optimization is the key now i think.
Aside from high Res graphics for certain games i do not see the fascination with quad cores and dual gpus etc.
There comes a point where the specs cannot really add much more to the overall experience anymore. I think we are getting to that point now. The software is gonna be the most important aspect from now on i think. We finally have incredible powerful hardware, but there are still lags and slowdowns etc.
These wont change with quad cores or double tripple quad dual cores or whatever. What is needed is software optimizations. Optimizations that fully take advantage of the available hardware. Only this will fix our lags and slowdowns and enhance our usage of mobile computing.
Sent from my Nexus S using XDA App
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Software optimizations, and for battery technology to finally catch up with transistors...

i'm not a gamer, the specs are secondary to the handset itself for me. i'm still gaga over my nexus s and it's "pedestrian specs".
eric b

I will have to hold and play with the the device to get a feel for the size. Coming from a Nexus One the Galaxy Nexus seems huge. Right now this is my main worry.
I don't care about Mega-pixels. The performance of the camera, lens, and image processing software is far more important. I want clear pictures, good indoor/low light, minimal shutter lag on start-up and between shots, and a flash that actually works well with the camera (i.e. intelligently controls output based on the shot details). It's hard to grade the device yet on these items.
If Google finally put deep rooted GPU acceleration into the OS and made it so that developers don't have to jump through hoops to use it then that will be an awesome change. The iPhones have often had lower spec hardware but buttery smooth performance due to software optimization and solid use of the GPU. I really hope this is real for Android.
I've posted elsewhere but I think lack of an SD card is a conscious choice because I don't think Google has worked out the kinks with SD cards post-Gingerbread. SD card support still isn't that great in HoneyComb. This could be a win for the user experience and since I can live with 32GB I'm not marking it down for this item.
I liked the improvements in Ice Cream Sandwich, especially the attempts at making the interface more consistent. Having home screens navigate left-right but having the app drawer navigate up-down never made sense. These screens look too similar to work differently. Putting widgets in a tab in the app drawer and making their addition to home screens consistent with apps also makes sense.
No hardware buttons is nice. I have a Honeycomb tablet and having the buttons move with the screen when going from portrait to landscape is nice and again adds consistency to the user experience. Once you get used to it having buttons fixed in portrait orientation like on current phones seems awkward. Also having the buttons change with the context of the application is a nice feature.
Anyone hear of any improvements in VPN support, specifically Cisco AnyConnect. So far it has only been available for certain phones due to tunnel driver issues. It would be a nice addition to the Galaxy Nexus since the HD display would make Citrix Receiver or other business apps easier to use on a phone.

voyager_s said:
Honestly i dont understand the craziness about quad cores. Aside from 1gig of ram and standard 1ghz dual chip i could care less about quad cores in phones.
.
.
.
Aside from high Res graphics for certain games i do not see the fascination with quad cores and dual gpus etc.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
"I think there is a world market for maybe five computers." - Thomas Watson, IBM, 1943.
"There is no reason anyone would want a computer in their home." - Ken Olson, DEC, 1977.
"640K ought to be enough for anybody." - Bill Gates, 1981

FYI. ICS does have hardware acceleration added. See android.com for ICS features.
OpenGL ES texture views
A new TextureView object lets developers directly integrate OpenGL ES textures as rendering targets in a UI hierarchy. The object lets developers display and manipulate OpenGL ES rendering just as they would a normal view object in the hierarchy, including moving, transforming, and animating the view as needed. The TextureView object makes it easy for developers to embed camera preview, decoded video, OpenGL game scenes, and more. TextureView can be viewed as a more powerful version of the existing SurfaceView object, since it offers the same benefits of access to a GL rendering surface, with the added advantage of having that surface participate fully in the normal view hierarchy.
Hardware-accelerated 2D drawing
All Android-powered devices running Android 4.0 are required to support hardware-accelerated 2D drawing. Developers can take advantage of this to add great UI effects while maintaining optimal performance on high-resolution screens, even on phones. For example, developers can rely on accelerated scaling, rotation, and other 2D operations, as well as accelerated UI components such as TextureView and compositing modes such as filtering, blending, and opacity.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse

In terms of performance... a OMAP Dual-Core 1.2 GHz should a ****ing BEAST. So... quite enough. I was hoping for 1.5 GHz, though.
In terms of design... I need to look at the model later when it gets released... the color and the dock dots seem a bit off.
The buttons... I hope that CM or other teams are able to make ICS render other buttons (like a 4th search button, or at least change the icons, they look too honeycomb-ish).
ICS looks great. That message response to call thingie sounds like a great feature.
NFC sounds like a neat feature too because you won't have to go around menus to send someone something... as long as they have a NFC device too. With ICS. The new wallpapers look great too, I guess. Not to speak about Hardware Acceleration!!!
Overall, I still gotta wait. I'm also going to wait for the usual price cuts that happen after 4~5 months of release to get it, if I am going to get it. Or I might wait for the next Nexus... hopefully Motorola isn't going to **** it up.

I was no timpressed with the screen on the TMo SGS2 to start with so I just pre ordered the Prime...
As far as number of cores go, I woulkd rather see mor edevelopment in battery technology.
Let's face it, battery life sucks in anything I can think about.

Goodbye windows phone?

first of all, I think WP7 OS is great and i have my omnia 7 for about 18months now, so im in a great position to say what i think of it.
for the first time in 18 months, im starting too look at the Android OS. why?
WP7 Hardware STILL dosnt cut it and there not a single true wp7 high end device out there.
examples,
the aging low res
low memory (especially if you live in the UK 8 gb phones really?)
poor GPU (60 fps is the minimum standard and wp7 games seem to be struggling to hit 30 fps. only the games with poor graphics run at 60fps on wp7. its embarrasing. i wouldnt show my android /iphone owning friends these games on my phone.
single core - sure the actual OS generally is nice and smooth ( although mine has definately slowed down recently maybe as im running out of memory?) however try opening PDF files they slow right down and take an age to open
Skydrive, i use skydrive all the time, i log on today and now instead of my usual 25GB i see i now only have 7GB ? whats going on here, skydrive was the only thing keeping my phone running over since i have only 8, ( actually 7GB of storage on my phone........
like i said at the start, the OS it self is really great, i just wish i could have the OS on a device as powerful as the "old"Samsung galaxy s2 ( I say old but its still WAY more powerful than WP7 devices.) but the hardware is really letting WP7 Down... no wonder sales have been rubbish

Read this article:
http://wmpoweruser.com/skydrive-for-windows-now-available-to-download-features-as-promised/
It will give you a link to 'upgrade' your SkyDrive storage back to 25GB. I just did this yesterday for an account, so it should still be working. It also has a link for the new SkyDrive Windows 7 program, which makes SD now on par with DropBox (Better, actually since it now keeps the phone in sync with folders on the computer).

thanks for that .......should keep me ticking over until my contract ends. by then i expect ( more like hope actually) that there will be at least 1 wp7 htc device in 6 months?

davidebanks said:
thanks for that .......should keep me ticking over until my contract ends. by then i expect ( more like hope actually) that there will be at least 1 wp7 htc device in 6 months?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I hope they make something like the hardware used for the ONE S.
I was helping my friend get her very first ever smart phone (Lumia 710) yesterday. We were at Car Toys. The sales guy went to the back to get the ONE S to show it off. Granted, I'm in no way passionate about Android, but it is one sexy piece of hardware. Just the right thickness, but a great sturdiness and weight to it. I was really impressed with its feel. Were there no Nokia, I'd go w/ HTC. Samsung's all feel like plastic graham crackers to me.

Single core and all those things, do you really need it or just to say Hey I have dual cores. For me, I don't think dual core is needed.
About the GPU, yes I think the game graphics can be improved by a lot seeing those FPS games on iphone.

To the OP, glad that you have realised and awake about the drawbacks...
Have been using my mozart for 13months++, bought the HTC one X last month,honestly my 1st android device. It is great, don't listen to all those lagging&force close BS...give it a try...no regret on one X...
lol...smoked by WP7???who cares?i can play cut the rope: experiment,angry bird space, highlighting and add notes to my PDF lecture slides(this is the crucial one), cheaper apps and etc....
now my mozart is collecting dusk and work as alarm clock[this is where WP7 excel at (easy task)]

davidebanks said:
like i said at the start, the OS it self is really great, i just wish i could have the OS on a device as powerful as the "old"Samsung galaxy s2 ( I say old but its still WAY more powerful than WP7 devices.) but the hardware is really letting WP7 Down... no wonder sales have been rubbish
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
If you like the experience of Windows Phone but want more modern hardware, Windows Phone 8 might be worth looking at.
It will be based on the NT kernel and will support more powerful CPU / GPUs (including multi-core CPUs) and higher screen resolutions.
There are plenty of other threads discussing WP8 (including timing) if you want more information. I'd expect it to be out within 6 months, assuming you're on a 2 year contract.

OP, your post is useless as all your other 232 posts. Hope to never see you again in WP7/Win8 forums (you may also pick up a few andro-stupid-trolls with)

Get a phone to suit your needs end of line.

I'm also leaving windows phone for android.
I've been a huge windows phone supporter (went from windows mobile to windows phone) and i still think metro is the greatest thing on any phone. But i'm tired of not having key features that i find essential for any phone. I mean common, no way to turn off auto rotation? No way to view notifications other than live tiles? No way to lower volume without lowering ring volume? No way to turn off 3G (if you had AT&T in NYC you'd understand why)
These are things i consider very very basic and should be implemented.
I really don't care about the apps. That's not why i'm switching. I'm switching because i have a problem with the OS not having basic functionality.

Hi guys, lets try to keep the forum focused in DEVELOPMENT, in this section for WP7. Thread closed.