Develop Bugs

Rhodium or OmniaPro?

Greetings,
As the title says,
Some of the main Advantages of OmniaPro are 800Mhz CPU, AMOLED display, 5MB Camera (With Flash), 3.5mm audio jack
Some Disadvantages are it has 3.5" Screen (Rhodium has 3.6"), 4 rows QWERTY Keyboard (Rhodium has 5 rows).
TouchWiz (OmniaPro) or TouchFlo/Sense (Rhodium), .. not sure which is better
Price (in UK pounds):
OmniaPro: £291.49 exc VAT
Rhodium: £379.48 exc VAT (Why is it more expensive while specs are clearly less?)
in terms of Hardware specs, .. i dont think someone could argue that Rhodium is better than OmniaPro.
I want your opinions on:
- Which one is better? and why?
- Why do you think that OmniaPro is a lot cheaper than Rhodium although it obviously packs better specs?

touchwiz = blah(imo)...
htc=greatest smartphone company(imo)...
Processor speed isn't all of it, flash on a camera is useless, tp2 has 3.5mm audiojack on some models... Only true advantage of the omniapro is the amoled screen.
tp2 can also utilize the new 7.2mbps networking which omniapro cant.

Again...
Entering to a Nike store and asking what is better Nike or Rebook
Rhodium is superior in many apspects, also you have the plus of the support from XDA!
I´ll stay with HTC
And don´t forget to vote!

orb3000 said:
Entering to a Nike store and asking what is better Nike or Rebook
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Lol I like the Rhodium, but when i saw the specs of OmniPro, i was like
and the price is alot less, .. i came here so you guys share your thoughts on Why Rhodium is better (IYO)

irkan said:
Lol I like the Rhodium, but when i saw the specs of OmniPro, i was like
and the price is alot less, .. i came here so you guys share your thoughts on Why Rhodium is better (IYO)
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Click to collapse
If the keyboard really is important, get the Rhodium. It is not only the 5 rows, it is the keyshape and spacing. For multimedia the Omnia pro should be better. I also saw some reports that the screen of the Omnia Pro is extremely soft and even a fingernail can scratch it. So you would need some really good protection. Sense is a much better interface, but I am sure it could be ported.

HansTWN said:
If the keyboard really is important, get the Rhodium. It is not only the 5 rows, it is the keyshape and spacing. For multimedia the Omnia pro should be better. I also saw some reports that the screen of the Omnia Pro is extremely soft and even a fingernail can scratch it. So you would need some really good protection. Sense is a much better interface, but I am sure it could be ported.
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Click to collapse
Hmm thanks for the input, yeah the layout of the keys in Rhodium seems a lot more type-friendly. and from videos, .. Oddly, the screen of Rhodium does seem crispier than the AMOLED of OmniaPro
and what do you guys think about the price difference? price/specs ratio of OmniaPro seems interesting compared to the Rhodium.
and why isnt there a section for Samsung windows mobiles here in the forums? i mean XDA is not for HTC only right? Sony Ericsson is there, why not Samsung?
lots of questions

i'll answer the Sony Ericsson for u Irkan, i use to have one right before the bloody keyboard gave up on me
The Xperia was a collaboration between Htc and SE. Basically Htc made the device. Hell, it even have the Htc quickgps and task manager on it. Even the hardSPL is the same as HTC. We could safely say that the Xperia X1 is still a "brother" to all the htc device.
As for the site, yes XDA only supported htc devices,even X2 isn't gonna be here. Thats why i chose the rhodium

I am less Impressed ...
Ok, .. i see .. thanx for the input, that makes sense now
I have read 2 major reviews about the OmniaPro, .. although the hardware specs are hardcore, .. the TouchWiz (Widgets UI) seems to be sluggish regardless of the hardware sepcs.
in terms of the UI performance the Sense seems to be way better than the Widgets UI. If 800Mhz Processor is not enough for there UI than what is the use of it? .. i was expecting that with the processor power i would enjoy the TouchWiz UI smoothly and that the menus will be flying around, ... unfortunately from reading the 2 major reviews, .. that is not the case
The reviews also reported that the keyboard does not register the key press smoothly when typing fast, and you have to be careful and firm when typing .. kindda ruins the purpose of having full QWERTY keyboard.
The camera is said to be mediocre, .. the colours are a little dull, but sharp.
Lets just say that i am less impressed by the OmniaPro than when i started this thread ..

to me the main advantage of the rhodium is that the screen TILTS!!!

shiguo said:
to me the main advantage of the rhodium is that the screen TILTS!!!
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Click to collapse
I saw a "Gorgieo Armani" version of the OmniaPro, .. same specs, but the screen TILTS

irkan said:
I have read 2 major reviews about the OmniaPro, .. although the hardware specs are hardcore, .. the TouchWiz (Widgets UI) seems to be sluggish regardless of the hardware sepcs.
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Click to collapse
You can probably turn the TouchWiz UI off if it is really that sluggish. You might even be able to get Sense on it. Keep that in mind.

yeah but ...
jdwrrzmm said:
You can probably turn the TouchWiz UI off if it is really that sluggish. You might even be able to get Sense on it. Keep that in mind.
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Click to collapse
I can turn it off, .. and will be stuck to WM screen ... that kindda ruins the purpose of buying it in the first place.
I like TouchWiz (the idea of it) but lots of reports shows that many times it tends to lag alot, i even saw some videos on how bad it was (and it was bad)
I have seen TouchFlo 1.6 (or some previous version) being ported to the OmniaPro, reports shows that it drains lots of battery power, and the experience is not smooth at all, and when i went to check the forum that made that port, they stopped supporting Sense porting to OmniaPro B7610 (the one that has the keyboard which is similar to Rhodium) and only continued with the full touch screens (they are trying to port everything in HD2 to Omnia2 or something, so they couldnt care less about OmniaPro with the keyboard)

I asked the same question in some forum that reviewed the the OmniaPro B7610
and here is a reply for my inquiry from one of the users that have the OmniaPro
I would go for the HTC touch pro2. I bought the Samsung Omnia Pro B7610 and it’s the worst windows mobile phone I’ve ever had, slower than my old HTC P3300 and my imate Ultimate 9502. TouchWiz is very slow! You have to switch it off. The screen is very fragile, it’s easily scratched by the stylus. The in call sound is not that loud, the keyboard is ok but not excellent, etc.
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desire or xperia x10 or samsung galaxy S?

I`m a bit confused right now ... i really loved the HTC evo 4G but since i live in India ... i cant get my hands on that...
The only good phones i am left with are desire , xperia x10 or samsung galaxy
Pls let me know which one should i go for
And i wanted to know how are the games in desire .. are they even comparable to iphone games??... and can it be jailbreaked like the iphone????

heres a youtube vid of nova on the desire
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7Vn2DuPeE-E

Avoid the Xperia X10, mainly due to the terrible terrible battery life and the fact it's still running Android 1.6, as well has having much lower performance than the Desire and Nexus One which use almost identical internals.
As for 'jailbreaking', in Android circles the equivalent is known as 'rooting' to enable you to install all the awesome custom firmwares available on this forum to enable new features, speed up your device or even get the latest versions of Android before they're even released.
Games-wise, there is a decent selection, but truthfully the iPhone is the king of mobile gaming. I haven't found this to be a problem however, as I realised after owning an iPod Touch before my android phone that with most games I'll play them for a few minutes when I download them and then never really touch them again. I use music, video, email, social networking and general internet browsing far more.
As for Desire vs Galaxy S...kind of hard to choose.
Galaxy S Pros and Cons:
+ Large, amazing Super AMOLED screen
+ Most powerful Android device out, especially it's GPU (for 3D games)
+ DivX video support
+ Video-out if you want to connect it to a screen
+ Reportedly great sound quality for headphones
+ Battery life better than most other high-end Android phones
- The phone itself looks like a cheap iPhone ripoff (why Samsung why?!)
- Samsung use their 'TouchWiz' interface on top of Android which looks kind of ugly and adds little
- Samsung don't have a good track record with updates...they've confirmed Froyo but no word on whether it'll ever get anything above that
- Reportedly all custom roms will need to be based off Samsung's official roms, so won't have as large a variety as HTC phones
- Apparently many users have had GPS problems
HTC Desire Pros and Cons:
+ Huge variety of custom roms
+ Similarity with Nexus One means since Nexus One gets updates first, most can be quickly ported to Desire
+ HTC Sense interface on top of Android looks great and improves usability (especially the widgets)
+ HTC's default apps for mail, weather, etc are extremely well designed
+ Will most likely be able to run Android 3.0 (Gingerbread) ported from the Nexus One once it's released
+ Very good build quality and nicer-looking hardware
- Battery life not as good
- Smaller screen that's regular AMOLED rather than Samsung's new variety
- Not as powerful as Galaxy S
Hope that helps! I'm currently in the middle of deciding between the Desire and Galaxy S myself, so done a fair bit of research and tried both out.

AXIS of Reality said:
- Not as powerful as Galaxy S
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as you can see my quadrant score says diffrent

That would be because you're running Froyo, which the Galaxy S has been confirmed to be receiving later this year. =P
The more apt comparison is lower on that graph showing the 2.1 Desire and Nexus One far lower than the 2.1 Galaxy S.

well thanks for that .. i am leaning towards htc desire more now ... just to confirm are there any better andriod phones in the market which are gsm and available outside US ??

AndroHero said:
as you can see my quadrant score says diffrent
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Which battery meter are you using?

vinayendra: since you mentioned only games in your post, my advice to you is to avoid android platform and go with Iphone if games are your priority...
If you still need to choose between these 3 phones, Galaxy would be your choice, cause it's better GPU will be advantage with games

I cant speak for the galaxy S but having used both desire and the xperia the desire wins hands down. The xperia is really laggy and the old version of android is a deal breaker. Once sony pull their fingers out and update the xperia it might be a different story but I dont think we will see that for a few more months yet
the only advantage the xperia has is the large internal apps storage, you dont need to root it if your wanting loads of apps unlike the desire

AndroHero said:
heres a youtube vid of nova on the desire
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7Vn2DuPeE-E
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Click to collapse
id love to know how to get that game running on my desire, I had it for my palm pre and loved it but the desire just gives me a black screen then it closes

djoni1980 said:
vinayendra: since you mentioned only games in your post, my advice to you is to avoid android platform and go with Iphone if games are your priority...
If you still need to choose between these 3 phones, Galaxy would be your choice, cause it's better GPU will be advantage with games
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Click to collapse
Games or not my priority .. i already have a ipod touch ... for me the main things are cool apps maybe even GPS , email and very good user interface ... i have a htc 3G touch ... it really sucks ...after having that i had decided not to go for HTC again ... But i cant buy iphone 4 as it takes a year to come to my country ... and i heard andriod phones are awesome ... so going back to HTC
So anyone owns a desire .. plz tell the pros and cons of desire which u felt while using

Take the desire you wont regret it.and someone already mentiond pros & cons on page 1.
You only have to choose
Sent from my HTC Desire using XDA App

AXIS of Reality said:
That would be because you're running Froyo, which the Galaxy S has been confirmed to be receiving later this year. =P
The more apt comparison is lower on that graph showing the 2.1 Desire and Nexus One far lower than the 2.1 Galaxy S.
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can you not read? it clearly says samsung galaxy s 2.2 on the benchmark

pms said:
Which battery meter are you using?
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the one that comes with the expresso theme for 2.2 sence roms

AndroHero said:
can you not read? it clearly says samsung galaxy s 2.2 on the benchmark
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LOL, actually it says <2.2, which is 2.1

djoni1980 said:
LOL, actually it says <2.2, which is 2.1
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Click to collapse
oh yeah so it does lol

If you have access to those phones in India go and try them out in person because you won't have a clue on what everyone is going on about except for prior experience on your old Touch.
An Android phone is perfect if you live your online life through Google, if you don't I suggest you move.
An iPhone is known for simplicity and just working until you somehow manage to get yourself into the zoom feature and you're screwed unless you know the zoom out function. These high end phones are true powerhouses in pocket computing and are for more than showing off to your mates that you have a cool phone. If that's all you're going to do, you deserve an iPhone. If you're rolling up your sleeves and learning how to individualise yourself from every other Android user out there then you will quickly learn about live wallpapers, widgets, shortcuts and button combinations. Go further than that and its roms, themes, radios, adb commands so on and so forth.
Know what you want and shop according to it. One of these phones will tick most if not all of your needs and wants. Or something in the near future will. Between the 2 phones, out of the box you are looking at a difference of interface more than anything else. Really suggest you go try them out.
Sent from my HTC Desire using XDA App

Jabbafat23 said:
If you have access to those phones in India go and try them out in person because you won't have a clue on what everyone is going on about except for prior experience on your old Touch.
An Android phone is perfect if you live your online life through Google, if you don't I suggest you move.
An iPhone is known for simplicity and just working until you somehow manage to get yourself into the zoom feature and you're screwed unless you know the zoom out function. These high end phones are true powerhouses in pocket computing and are for more than showing off to your mates that you have a cool phone. If that's all you're going to do, you deserve an iPhone. If you're rolling up your sleeves and learning how to individualise yourself from every other Android user out there then you will quickly learn about live wallpapers, widgets, shortcuts and button combinations. Go further than that and its roms, themes, radios, adb commands so on and so forth.
Know what you want and shop according to it. One of these phones will tick most if not all of your needs and wants. Or something in the near future will. Between the 2 phones, out of the box you are looking at a difference of interface more than anything else. Really suggest you go try them out.
Sent from my HTC Desire using XDA App
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Click to collapse
I'd mostly agree with that.
Android phones really are 'enthusiast' phones, in the sense that you get out of them what you put in. For example, customising it to work exactly how you want and look how you want it to look.
The iPhone is made as a very controlled system, so you have only the absolute minimum freedom (ie: change your wallpaper or order of icons). This is ideal for many people who want something that just 'works' and has been tuned to be an intuitive experience for the majority of people.
Android is based around making your phone uniquely yours, such as through the use of the homescreens to fill with whatever you want (widgets, controls, shortcuts, folders, etc). What this means is it requires more time and attention than an iPhone, but the end result is a phone and way of working that is of your own design.
Think of it like Lego:
- the iPhone is where you follow the instructions and get what is shown in the picture on the box (which can annoy people who want to do their own thing).
- Android is where you are given a pile of lego bricks to build whatever you want, so it's far more personalised even if it's not as polished as the iPhone (which can confuse or put of people who prefer a guiding hand and it to be done for them)
I'm happy to sacrifice some polish in the interface for the chance to really make my phone mine, but there are many who feel the other way. That's why it's great we have the oppurtunity to choose between Android and iOS (and soon Windows Phone 7, which seems like a halfway point between the two).

thanks for all that ... Now i am convinced to go for a desire which i will buy sometime this week
i have a small doubt ( a n00b one) .. whats the use of "rooting" and installing ROM`s???.. is it the same as "jailbreaking" in iphone where i can install paid apps and games for free and play with my looks ?? ... or is there anyother use??

i have HTC Desire which i bough from a friend in England, (i live in Seattle) and absolutely love it. My co-worker has Tmobile Samsung Vibrant. Ill give my impressions and quick pros and cons, i may sound little bias but here it is.
Samsung Galaxy Pros
Large SuperAMOLED screen, true 800x480 res, multitouch (Which, while is brighter than the Desire, not that much better, almost cant tell the difference.)
Better battery life, Galaxy also comes with 1500 mAh battery whereas Desire come with 1400 mAh ( again only one day of test with moderate use)
Better GPU
16 Gb of internal storage (which is a huge plus)
720p @30 frames video capture (which also is possible on the Desire with a custom ROM)
Cons
Built quality is extremely cheap, back is shiny plastic which is prone to scratches
Has ugly iphone 3GS style bezel around the screen
No camera flash (this one is a huge let down by Samsung which is beyond any comprehension)
Ugly UI which is a blatant iOS rip off (this one may be strictly preferential depending if you like iOS look or not)
Samsungs proven lack of support track record
Not clear whether gonna have large dev support on XDA
External speaker is horrible, tiny sound (Desire is the same)
That is all i can think of at the moment
Desire Cons
Uses old Clear pad 2000 touch panel which lacks true multitouch support or supports it in a broken way (you can google Nexus one touch screen problems, there is 70 pages plus thread about it)
Uses Cheap Pentile pixel arrangement, which some argue is better for media but horrible if ou spend most of the time reading text on your device. ( you can google Pentile on Nexus One, Anandtech.com has very informative article about this)
Eternal speaker is horrible, sound is tiny and quite
video capture is crap
When using on low brightness, screen has pink hue
Battery life is mediocre
Pros
Built quality is way better than Galaxy, also looks sophisticated compared to Galaxy
Camera flash
Huge support from XDA developers since it is almost identical to Nexus One
Runs Sense, although i equally hate Sense, it is a lot better that TouchWiz
Has hardware buttons (this one is a deal breaker for me as Galaxy touch sensitive buttons are unresponsive at times and generally suck)
AMOLED is almost as good as Galaxy's ( aside from cheap ass touch panel that HTC used on Desire and Nexus One, why HTC why)
That is all i can think of at the moment. I am eligible for an upgrade with Tmobile, but i think ill keep the Desire. Just better phone aside from crappy screen. Hope this helps

[Q] Multi-touch (Axis-swapping and sticking) walkaround possible?

Anyone keen to play with the Kernel driver for the touchscreen on the desire, to come up with a patch that keeps axis inversion/sticking to a bare minimum? This is the only think keeping me from getting a desire, as I don't want to be held back by hardware. Playing multi-touch Pong and Air Hockey with my friends at school is something I want to be able to do, not to mention the almost console quality games like NOVA. A fix (kind-of) was made for the Acer Liquid By a guy playing with the kernal drivers. All of my developing focus is going into learning Java right now (Gotta start somewhere, right? ) and I do not have a device to test on, so if someone could have a go with the source from the Acer thread or create something themselves from/for the kernel at developer.htc.com would be more than greatful, because I'm not exactly keen on the Desire hd's form facter and buttons, despite the performance. Sucks that all the Desire phones have a big flaw. (Desire - Multitouch. Z - hinge. HD - Size could be a problem, buttons too flush and delicate battery, sim, and SD covers.)
Thanks in advance for your time, and, hopefully, hard work.

Would be very cool, It's practically impossible to play games like modern combat, or any other games where your fingers cross, because of the axis swapping. A fix that, almost, prevents that would be awesome.
Sent from my HTC Desire using XDA App

Yeh, that very a big problem...
Sent from my HTC Desire using XDA App

I know it's impossible to truly fix it, but you can get close. personally, I don't care for having more than two finger gestures, I just want perfectly stable multitouch. If someone could create a driver that assigns an id to the first and second touch, and tries to, as accurately as possible, track which registered touch is which, even when the movement exceeds the refresh rate of the screen/sensor, and reads 2 individual touches when they are close/the axises are close. I've been reading up on how the synaptics ClearPad 2000 works, and it reports 2 coordinates for each touch, an x and a y. Shouldn't be too hard for it to not get very confused, right? I'd say, this is a year overdue. But the Desire is still one of the greatest phones ever made (if not THE). This issue still stands between me and it, even though it can barely be noticed in everyday use.

Korntoff, trust me when I say I'm not trying to be rude, although it may come across that way (the internet isn't good at the subtle and nuanced art of conversation) but don't you think it's the height of arrogance to believe you're the first person to have even considered this? It's the 14th of February. The HTC Desire will have been available for a whole year in just two days and you're asking this as if it hadn't dawned on all of these people for almost a year.
If someone could create a driver that assigns an id to the first and second touch, and tries to, as accurately as possible, track which registered touch is which, even when the movement exceeds the refresh rate of the screen/sensor, and reads 2 individual touches when they are close/the axises are close.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Wow...such a simple solution...why have none of us thought of it!!? C'mon man.

so this will never be fixed?

IIRC, this is a hardware issue rather than a software issue. So I don't think it's possible.

i am already regretting buying the htc desire... i am getting it tomorrow.... i didn't know there was that multitouch issue until yesterday... i always thought the htc devices wre top notch as it got such great reviews... none mentioned the multitouch bug... i was planning to play a lot of games... i am so disappointed..
edit: i think the issues of htc desire should be stickied.. i can't believe i missed that issue before i was deciding to buy the desire... it's too late now... i was planning to buy the acer liquid but saw it had multitouch issue... through the forums... i missed it for desire... darn

are there some tips to avois this multitouch bug while playing games or typing on the virtual keyboard?

I tried NOVA and it seemed fairly responsive to be honest - there was a recommended control setup for the desire to help prevent the multi-touch issue - and i am sure i read somewhere a tip was to try and make sure the touches don't line up with each other?

yup i saw it... but are all games configurable like nova?

yeahman45 said:
i am already regretting buying the htc desire... i am getting it tomorrow.... i didn't know there was that multitouch issue until yesterday... i always thought the htc devices wre top notch as it got such great reviews... none mentioned the multitouch bug... i was planning to play a lot of games... i am so disappointed..
edit: i think the issues of htc desire should be stickied.. i can't believe i missed that issue before i was deciding to buy the desire... it's too late now... i was planning to buy the acer liquid but saw it had multitouch issue... through the forums... i missed it for desire... darn
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
In The Netherlands we have a 7 day cooling down period after buying something or signing a contract (with most expensive purchases). In those days you can cancel your purchase for free. You should see if something like that applies where you live as well.

thx for the advice but no such thing here... anyway thx for helping.. i got the phone and yes got some issues with the multitouch... guess i will live with it.. apart from that the phone is very good!

i just played crash bandicoot warped on fpse and i mapped the x and o keys on the "search" and "back" physical keys and use the touch dpad... and works pretty good!!! i have reached the first boss level quite easily... if only all android games were that customizable!! would be able to play all the multitouch games properly

My Dad gave me his hd2, and it has the axis sticking issue, but not axis swapping. Less of an issue, but still annoying at times. (Such as playing N.O.V.A (btw, I can't find it on the market, using an apk I downloaded from some site (I hope it was a free app and that this is perfectly legal, but I'm probably wrong.) Is it still on the market? How did you guys find it?) But this phone was definately not built for gaming (adreno 200, anybody?) So it's not that much of a big deal.)
Btw, nexus gingerbread ROM, hence signature.
Sent from my Nexus One using XDA App

Korntoff said:
My Dad gave me his hd2, and it has the axis sticking issue, but not axis swapping. Less of an issue, but still annoying at times. (Such as playing N.O.V.A (btw, I can't find it on the market, using an apk I downloaded from some site (I hope it was a free app and that this is perfectly legal, but I'm probably wrong.) Is it still on the market? How did you guys find it?) But this phone was definately not built for gaming (adreno 200, anybody?) So it's not that much of a big deal.)
Btw, nexus gingerbread ROM, hence signature.
Sent from my Nexus One using XDA App
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i thought hd2 had clearpad 2000 like nexus one and desire???
"But this phone was definately not built for gaming (adreno 200, anybody?)"
but still some casual gaming with no bugs wud have been cool..for the price u pay for this kind of phone

yeahman45 said:
i thought hd2 had clearpad 2000 like nexus one and desire???
"But this phone was definately not built for gaming (adreno 200, anybody?)"
but still some casual gaming with no bugs wud have been cool..for the price u pay for this kind of phone
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Click to collapse
Casual gaming is still very possible, just don't expect halo 3 graphics. Does the hd2 have clearpad 2000? Maybe the Desire multitouch isn't such a lost cause.
Sent from my Gingerfied hd2

yeahman45 said:
i am already regretting buying the htc desire... i am getting it tomorrow.... i didn't know there was that multitouch issue until yesterday... i always thought the htc devices wre top notch as it got such great reviews... none mentioned the multitouch bug... i was planning to play a lot of games... i am so disappointed..
edit: i think the issues of htc desire should be stickied.. i can't believe i missed that issue before i was deciding to buy the desire... it's too late now... i was planning to buy the acer liquid but saw it had multitouch issue... through the forums... i missed it for desire... darn
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Without sounding rude, it's not an issue or a bug, the bottom line is the desire dosent have multi touch, it has dual touch, the axis flipping is just a downside to that type of touch panel, it's nothing to do with the quality of htc products, as the screen is behaving as it should. so you really should of researched your purchase before you bought it.
Sent from my Desire HD using Tapatalk

Even though the hd2 has the same touch panel and no axis swapping issue.
Sent from my Gingerfied hd2

how come hd2 does not have the axis swapping issue although it has the same screen as htc desire and nexus one??

[Q] Desire Z pros/cons?

I have a SonyEricsson Xperia X1 which is starting to break down and I'm thinking of getting a new phone. The Desire Z is the only non-Xperia phone I found that has everything I need. How is it? Pros? Cons? Battery life? GPS?
Also, I'm new to Android because the Xperia X1 has WinMo. What are the drawbacks of Android? The pros I already know of. How's the freeware app availability and development? (I will never pay for an application.) How about the advanced user customization? (I liked that about WinMo. Registry editing and changing files.)
Thanks for any answers!

Here's my review of the Desire Z based on my review (note: this is my first mobile device with something better than WinMo 5.
It has a nice performance (unless you're running something like HTC Sense 3.0+ HTC Sense). The keyboard (if you use it) is very comfortable and it features a "search" and a "menu" key, plus 2 shortcuts, the only thing I would like is an extra row for numbers (but I'm already used to the soft keyboard so I rarely use it). I wish I could review the stock rom, but I removed it after 2 days (and this is my first android phone). Battery life is OK, I get 1 day of battery life with medium use (screen on for like 4 hours, nothing heavy running), however, I bought my phone used, so I think the battery should have been better if it was new. The camera is OK for taking casual photos, the flash does a very good job for taking in dark places, just don't expect "ultra sharp" quality. The speaker is very loud, however, I find myself most of the time putting my hands on the back of the phone to "bounce" back the sound to myself, as the speaker is on the back side.
As for android, there are a lot of free applications, however, the market sometimes has apps that are useless or malicious (although you'll usually only notice them after scrolling a lot down). There's also something called GetJar, where you can get apps for free every week legally (they call them "gold apps"). Most of the apps you'll need will be free (soft keyboards, launchers, email apps) and most of them will be free but will have a "pro" or "donate" version (usually the free ones will have ads, which I can easily ignore, as they're usually small.
Sorry for any typo, English isn't my main language.

Time has long since passed to ditch Winmo. The drawbacks to Android? There aren't any. Winmo is a joke for lag, memory leakage, instability, and crashing. Android is stable and fast; and enjoys huge support from manufacturers, developers, and the user community. There is no "registry" since that is a Windows invention. But there are hacks and mods for anything you would ever want to do, and much more. Trust me, make the move to Android, and you will never look back on Winmo (except to shake your head and laugh).
There are plenty of free or ad-supported apps on the Market, as far as most any utility you would need. And also good quality free games. But really, why such an adamant stance on paying for apps? What would be the big deal in PAYING for software, if its something well made, that you use frequently, and say costs $1 (less than a Euro). That amount of money is completely insignificant for me when spend on something useful like a good app. God forbid the people that develop software should be compensated for it, and motivated to create other quality software, and to continue supporting their apps with updates and bug fixes? User made freeware is fine an all, and there is certainly good stuff out there. But its not going to fill every hole or need.
The con with the DZ is that its over a year old. This is really old in smartphone terms. Good phones with hardware keyboards are indeed rare. But aside from the keyboard, the Z has really fallen far behind in terms of CPU, memory, and other specs. If you are really hung up on a hardware keyboard, and can get a good deal on a Z, then go for it. Otherwise, I'd use my money on a more current device.

Thanks for the replies, guys!
Yes, the physical keyboard is a must. It's so much easier and faster than virtual keyboards. If I have to write more than three consecutive letters, I'll flip the keyboard open instead of trying to write with the virtual one. I do a lot of writing with my phones. My work phone is a Galaxy S and I have tried pretty much every keyboard it has, but they're all equally horrible. The same with my Xperia. I blame my first ever smartphone, the Nokia Communicator 9500. It was huge and awkward, but it had the comfiest keyboard ever.
The Xperia X1 has otherwise 95% of what I need, but it's starting to physically break and it has become abominably slow and unstable. And it wasn't that great to begin with. In hindsight, I really should have bought a HTC phone (assuming there existed one with a physical keyboard at the time).
The reason I won't pay for apps is because what has happened to me quite a many times with both my phone and my computer. I buy a program or app I need, happily use it and after a month, discover that there has existed a free alternative the whole time that is actually better. Cue me being pissed off. I have learned my lesson and right now, there is no software on my phone that I paid for and the only software on my computer that actually costed money are the operating system and games. That doesn't mean I won't donate to the authors of the software afterwards.
The only experience I have with Android is via my work phone, but I don't know about how customizable it is, because the work phone has been heavily restricted.

Tych0n said:
The Xperia X1 has otherwise 95% of what I need, but it's starting to physically break and it has become abominably slow and unstable. And it wasn't that great to begin with. In hindsight, I really should have bought a HTC phone (assuming there existed one with a physical keyboard at the time).
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Click to collapse
The Xperia X1 was made by HTC.

Oh, well, something other than the X1, then, preferably something that used HTC's UI.

Tych0n said:
Oh, well, something other than the X1, then, preferably something that used HTC's UI.
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i thought buying an HTC cellphone is reather better than other android cellphones for 2 things:
1- its tough... it doesn't break easily, even with tiny hinges holding the screen...
2- it has Sense UI...
but turns out, Sense UI really affects performance, even on stock unrooted, the phone was really slow... although HTC Sense offers great look... but no performance comparing to other UIs
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|RIROZIZO|
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May be, but it's been my favorite since I first saw it.

Riro Zizo said:
but turns out, Sense UI really affects performance, even on stock unrooted, the phone was really slow... although HTC Sense offers great look... but no performance comparing to other UIs
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I've only found the launcher (home screen and app tray, for the OP) itself to really be any effect on performance, and its easy enough to use an alternate launcher. And the lag on the Sense launcher is really not as bad as some make it out to be.
Its purely a matter of personal taste, of course. But my personal opinion is that Sense is a much more aesthetic, refined, and unified Android experience than AOSP, or other manufacturer skins.
Of course, the beauty of Android is that if you don't like Sense, you can always flash a more vanilla ROM, or something else like MIUI.
---------- Post added at 08:34 PM ---------- Previous post was at 08:29 PM ----------
Tych0n said:
The reason I won't pay for apps is because what has happened to me quite a many times with both my phone and my computer. I buy a program or app I need, happily use it and after a month, discover that there has existed a free alternative the whole time that is actually better. Cue me being pissed off. I have learned my lesson and right now, there is no software on my phone that I paid for and the only software on my computer that actually costed money are the operating system and games. That doesn't mean I won't donate to the authors of the software afterwards.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
If you are just talking utilities and useful apps, I think you will be right at home on Android. I honestly can't think of any utilities that you HAVE to pay for. Many are either free, or have a paid premium version with extra features (or remove ads), if you like the free version and decide to pay.

Desire Z it is, then!
I can get one from two different places without a nordic keyboard for ~300€ or one with nordic keyboard for ~500€. Guess which one I'll buy...

I came to Android on the DZ from a WinMo phone. Best move I ever made, Android made my old WinMo (which I was happy with at the time) look like a laggy, clunky joke.
Welcome to Android !
Sent from my Desire Z running CM7.

If you want a qwerty-slider android phone I don't think you can do better than the DZ. My preferred rom is virtuous affinity - this give a smooth and very usable sense 3.5 experience. However, I would do think this phone is at the end of its lifespan. The built in ram and the single core cpu are going to limit how much further it can be pushed and I don't think we are ever going to see usable/smooth ics or sense 4 on this handset.
If you want a qwerty-slider android phone I don't think you can do better than the DZ - but I wish there was!! Come on HTC where's the quad core 4.7in HD qwerty-slider I want so badly

MaxWiz said:
If you want a qwerty-slider android phone I don't think you can do better than the DZ - but I wish there was!! Come on HTC where's the quad core 4.7in HD qwerty-slider I want so badly
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This a million times! I'm astonished that there's so few sliders with full keyboards out there. The market is dominated by those goddamn slates. I've watched my friends write with the virtual keyboards of iPhones, Galaxies and whatever, and it always looks slow, clumsy and awkward. They even have to use predictive text input to compensate for the slowness. In contrast, writing with a QWERTY thumb keyboard is a breeze. The Desire Z is apparently pretty much the newest and best Android slider there is on the market, but it still has a WVGA screen, while pretty much every new slate has some HD-super-gizmo screen. What the hell? My Xperia has a WVGA...
But anyway, seeing as I can get a DZ for LESS (~300€) than I paid for my X1 (~450€), I'm happy even though it might not be the fastest and newest there is.

I'm a big fan of hardware keyboards too. I switched from the Motorola Droid to the HTC G2. I found the keyboard on the G2 to be not so good. Not sure if it's just because I got mine used on ebay and it was worn, but it doesn't look like it's worn out. I've noticed the keyboard tends to miss/duplicate keystrokes often. So I've been tending to use the on screen keyboard, which is really good. I think the on screen keys are bigger than on the droid so it's pretty easy to type on. But I found the hardware keyboard to be much slower to type on than the Droid.

jgummeson said:
I've noticed the keyboard tends to miss/duplicate keystrokes often.
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That could be from wear. The keyboard of my X1 worked flawlessly in the beginning, now it duplicates and misses keystrokes all the time. It's still better than the virtual keyboards, though...

6 years later...and we still have no decent replacement for the Desire Z

Sad times...sad times...

I see this place is also RIP.

riahc3 said:
Sad times...sad times...
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How do you define "decent replacement"? I definitely missed having a QWERTY keyboard when I used a full touch device after my Desire Z died, but I've been using the BlackBerry Priv for the past 7 months and it's great. Didn't think I'd like a portrait slider, but at 5.4" screen size I'd say it's the better solution, the keyboard is maybe even better than DZ's plus it's capacitive and allows scrolling, various gestures while typing etc. Can't be rooted, but thankfully BB runs nearly stock Android so I'm also very happy software-wise.
There's also the newly announced candybar BlackBerry KEYone.

RIP G2 forums
HTC needs to step it up with a reboot of the Desire Z/G2

Flippy125 said:
RIP G2 forums
HTC needs to step it up with a reboot of the Desire Z/G2
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I was hoping that HTC would do that for quite some time, but they don't exactly seem interested. If you need or want a physical keyboard and Android, BlackBerry is your best bet.
There's also this, but a 5.5" landscape slider seems like a silly idea IMO.
https://www.indiegogo.com/projects/keyboard-mod-a-physical-keyboard-for-the-moto-z#/