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With the addition of a gyroscope (see 1:25 in the video) and the 960 x 640 screen to the iPhone 4, certainly WP7 developers will try to one-up or match Apple on these features. This makes me wonder if we'll end up with a Windows Phone 7 market with tons of different hardware features and form-factors (an achilles heel for the dead Windows Mobile market) that would create a hell for developers. Or, will WP7 be perpetually one step behind Apple in these regards?
wp7 has a gyroscope. a gyroscope isnt a matter of hardware as much as it is programming. obv it requires hardware though dont get me wrong.
pretty much its like this....wp7 releases in october. they arent going to be bested by whats released in june. if you found out about this recently, imagine how long ago windows found out about it.
davidstre said:
wp7 has a gyroscope. a gyroscope isnt a matter of hardware as much as it is programming. obv it requires hardware though dont get me wrong.
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Sorry, but I think only the iPhone 4 has the gyroscope so far. Not to be confused with accelerometer (which both devices have). Check out the video link in the OP.
I understand that manufacturers will try to compete. But the problem is, is you don't want to have so many different hardware capabilities between WP7 phones as soon as they are released. It will just fragment the market and make the software suck. For example, find good accelerometer support on windows mobile or an app that takes GOOD advantage of WVGA screens.
WP7 devices aren't supposed to have gyroscopes, only accelerometers ("g-sensors"). And yes, these are hardware components.
WhyBe said:
But the problem is, is you don't want to have so many different hardware capabilities on WP7 as soon as it is released. It will just fragment the market and make the software suck.
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Well, adding gyroscope will fragment the appstore as well, won't it?
vangrieg said:
Well, adding gyroscope will fragment the appstore as well, won't it?
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Thus the point of my thread. If WP7 doesn't hit the market with these features, it will be perpetually behind Apple. If it DOES have these features upon RTM, they haven't been announced yet and it flies in the face of Microsofts already announced strict hardware standards. Either way it doesn't look good.
Gyroscope /= accelerometer.
Well, I'm not at all convinced that the gyroscope will add that much to the user experience in practice. And at least for a year or so developers will build apps that will work without one, so it'll play a marginal role. You can substitute pretty much everything a gyroscope does with a g-sensor and a compass, IMO.
vangrieg said:
Well, I'm not at all convinced that the gyroscope will add that much to the user experience in practice. And at least for a year or so developers will build apps that will work without one, so it'll play a marginal role. You can substitute pretty much everything a gyroscope does with a g-sensor and a compass, IMO.
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I think the iPhone 4 will get those apps a lot sooner than a year just because the hardware specs and phone upgrade path are so streamlined in that market.
Some creative people will come up with something, even if it's just a game.
Gyroscopes, I believe, add a level of precision and responsiveness that you don't get with accelerometers and compass alone.
I want MS to step their game up before RTM and not try to rationalize 2nd best. I expect nothing less than something sexy and amazing come end of year from MS and partners.
Well, I'm afraid it's not just up to MS, and it's too late for OEMs to change their designs, find suppliers etc. etc. I'm not even sure there is capacity to produce enough gyroscopes to satisfy Apple's demand and then some - we're talking about production growth to tens of millions from essentially zero.
I don't think a gyroscope will be a deal maker/breaker. If you are into game phone, you will notice a larger screen and X Box Live before wondering if it would be better with a gyroscope.
The Wii sold a lot but it never lived to its potential. There aren't that many Wii games that used the controllers better than Nintendo's Wii sports resort.
A gyroscope's usefullness is subjective. But I would prefer my phone to have it and it be widely supported by developers. Another losing point for the WP7 phones upon release will be the WVGA screen (compared to the iPhone 4 screen). Maybe many people won't know the difference, but as a photographer who uses his phone to show off pics, the higher the res of my phone the better.
My main point is, I don't want MS and partners to be perpetually one generation behind the competition. They need to be innovators on the software and hardware side.
I'm sure Samsung will implement their SuperAMOLED tech into WP7 devices. And S-AMOLED is pretty much the same as the retina display. The resolution is not the same but 800x480 on a 3.8 screen plus super vivid colors and sunlight readability is absoluetly on par with the iPhone 4. In fact Apple is playing catch-up here
You know, I've been thrilled after the Jobs-keynote. But as soon as my brain got sober from all the marketing blahblah I started to realize Apple didn't innovate that much with the iPhone4. Sure it is good but I am absolutely sure that HTC and Samsung can best this until october or so.
WhyBe said:
Another losing point for the WP7 phones upon release will be the WVGA screen (compared to the iPhone 4 screen). Maybe many people won't know the difference, but as a photographer who uses his phone to show off pics, the higher the res of my phone the better.
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I'm a photographer too and I think WVGA is quite good for the form factor.
Have you used OLED screens? They are great for photos and the resolution isn't even true WVGA.
The main thing I'm missing in WM6.5 is color management, or even just an icc profile for my phone which I can convert to manually.
As i came to know the size of the screen is the same on the iPhone 4, this means that the Pixels density is too high.
Notice that the eye cannot see anything smaller than 0.1mm and in the iPhone case it is 0.07 so the pixels cannot be seen by the naked eye. if the iPhone's screen was larger (maybe like the HD2) it would make more sense to include this high resolution.
Anyhow, choosing this resolution is a matter of technical implementation as the old one is 480x320 (new is 2*480x2*320) so this means that all they have to do to allow old iPhone apps to run full screen is to render the screen with 2 times hight and 2 times width (much easier and way better than the iPad).
Now regarding viewing photos! come on, you need a full HD TV to see a photo taken by a 2Mega Pixels camera.
CSMR said:
I'm a photographer too and I think WVGA is quite good for the form factor.
Have you used OLED screens? They are great for photos and the resolution isn't even true WVGA.
The main thing I'm missing in WM6.5 is color management, or even just an icc profile for my phone which I can convert to manually.
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Yeah, my X1 and TP2 look pretty nice displaying the pics. Only time I've seen OLED in action they had animation videos running...no real people. I'll have to look into the color accuracy.
anaadoul said:
As i came to know the size of the screen is the same on the iPhone 4, this means that the Pixels density is too high.
Notice that the eye cannot see anything smaller than 0.1mm and in the iPhone case it is 0.07 so the pixels cannot be seen by the naked eye. if the iPhone's screen was larger (maybe like the HD2) it would make more sense to include this high resolution.
[...........]
Now regarding viewing photos! come on, you need a full HD TV to see a photo taken by a 2Mega Pixels camera.
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The MP of the original photo is irrelevant (I shoot 14.2MP). The high PPI (of mobile screen) just gives you the ultimate sharpness. WVGA displaying of photos is quite nice, but I think the 960x640 should be that much better. I'm wondering what's the likely hood of seeing a 2x(800x480) anytime soon? Probably nil on mobile form-factors.
Has anyone found out the CPU speed of the new iPhone 4 ? EDIT: Never mind...
Microsoft just built this OS and Iphone has been around for years now. They will eventually get all the features packed in that you would expect to have it's just going to take sometime because they want to bring those features to you in a manner that is easy to use so they aren't going to just throw it in there and call it good. They released an article saying that it will probably take around 5 years to get every single feature that they have planned into the devices and working the way it should. They made something that looks great and although right now it lacks functionality of Windows 6.5 it;s way more polished and no one can deny that. If you want to maintain your backwards compatability get yourself a Windows Phone handheld edition when it comes out.
WhyBe said:
Yeah, my X1 and TP2 look pretty nice displaying the pics. Only time I've seen OLED in action they had animation videos running...no real people. I'll have to look into the color accuracy.
The MP of the original photo is irrelevant (I shoot 14.2MP). The high PPI (of mobile screen) just gives you the ultimate sharpness. WVGA displaying of photos is quite nice, but I think the 960x640 should be that much better. I'm wondering what's the likely hood of seeing a 2x(800x480) anytime soon? Probably nil on mobile form-factors.
Has anyone found out the CPU speed of the new iPhone 4 ? EDIT: Never mind...
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Hell there aren't even many 17" monitors that have more then a 1600x960 display so I doubt it will happen on a mobile but they do have support for HVGA which means that by scaling that 2x they can get there 960x640 and match what Apple has to offer and I bet the resolution would look so much better on a 4.3" device. I don't even know how people use a 3.5" these days lol.
I don't mind small screens. I love the SE X1 form factor. The bigger TP2 is cool too though.
If it takes 5 years for Microsoft to implement everything into WP7, then imagine the features being added to the competition products for the same 5 years. In order to catch up, MS is going to need to come up with some revolutionary ideas (to give the 'impression' of being ahead like Apple did) and work twice as hard as the other developers.
WhyBe said:
I don't mind small screens. I love the SE X1 form factor. The bigger TP2 is cool too though.
If it takes 5 years for Microsoft to implement everything into WP7, then imagine the features being added to the competition products for the same 5 years. In order to catch up, MS is going to need to come up with some revolutionary ideas (to give the 'impression' of being ahead like Apple did) and work twice as hard as the other developers.
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I don't think their 5 year plan involves catching up to the competition I think they are more about how long it's going to take to pass the competition in terms of offerings. If it was just about adding what's out there now then they should just give up already. I don't think they are that naive. I think they are pulling out there most important features right out the gate which makes the most sense. Xbox live intergration, Zune services, a better marketplace, and a great marketing campaign. These are what the average consumer is looking for. Cut and paste, 3rd party multitasking, etc is not going to cross the average person's mind when they look at a phone but it will make the experience better and that's what they are going for next.
I use the TP2 right now. I like the 3.7" screen but I still think something HD2 size with a keyboard would be the greatest device on the planet. But that's because I love landscape sliders but not everyone else shares the same opinion.
Its hard to say if they'll pass the competition or not, because Im sure the competition is working on some innovations too. This makes the task very difficult for MS unless they're working on some groundbreaking technology no one else has.
i know theres a thousand of these threads but i really want to see this happen so what the hell
is it possible to change the evos screen density from 480x800 to its proper full size via a flashable package or a root required apk? i refuse to believe the true 1:1 density of the evo is the same as the n1 and others yet its AT LEAST .5 INCHES bigger than them all. i think that if we can increase the resolution it will help balance the the bleh factor of its not so vibrant lcd screen.
figures the biggest screen of them all is also be the most dull of them all (they probably did it for battery life or something, oh well).
im looking for the true resolution on the Internet but i haven't found it yet. i know ive seen it somewhere before, but it was forever ago.
if someone finds it before me please post the size and link the source. thanks!
I think you have a critical misunderstanding. The Evo's resolution is 800x480. That means that is has 800 pixels in one direction and 480 pixels in the other direction. The Nexus One has the same number of pixels in each direction, but each one is smaller because it has a smaller display. In general, the smaller the pixel, the more expensive the display because it isn't easy to make very small pixels. There is no application that can magically create more pixels or make your current pixels smaller. The native resolution of a display is absolutely fixed.
You can refuse to believe this or that they sky is blue all you want. It doesn't change the fact that it is true.
can i get some other answers than those of an unhelpful condescending little child, please?
im not a retard i know you cant physically change a screen to have more pixels. what i want is to change the resolution to something along the lines of 720p 1280×720. theres no need to try to put yourself on top of me like your better than me, its a waste of time for you to type me to read and space and bandwidth on xda's servers
close thread
He answered your question and you're just not willing to accept that you have no idea what you're talking about.
The resolution of the screen (and therefore the pixel density) isn't changing. There isn't some magic hack to change it, or optimize it to be something that it's not. Perhaps you could get it to run at a lower resolution, but that would make the problem worse and not better.
you cant make 1280 pixels out of 800. on another topic if a dev would be kind enough to write a script to make my battery life double thankyou.
daktah said:
can i get some other answers than those of an unhelpful condescending little child, please?
im not a retard i know you cant physically change a screen to have more pixels. what i want is to change the resolution to something along the lines of 720p 1280×720. theres no need to try to put yourself on top of me like your better than me, its a waste of time for you to type me to read and space and bandwidth on xda's servers
close thread
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Click to collapse
Aren't you really asking to physically get more pixels on to the screen? The only other way to interpret what you are asking for is if you're trying to get content of higher resolution to fit on the device? Pixels is pixels, if the screen itself was physically 1280x720 native and HTC limited the display resolution to 800x480 for whatever reason, then you can fix it.
As it stands, 800x480 is the native resolution of the panel, any higher resolution content that you try to play will be downscaled to the best of the software's ability so even if you use an app thats designed for the higher res (none that i know of) or a video / picture, it will be downscaled to fit 800x480 when you make it full screen or try to make it fit.
You can buy a 42 inch 1080p screen and a 42 inch 720p screen, and any 1080p content played on the 720p will be downscaled, and vice versa in the other direction. You're asking to transcend physical limits of a device thats not really possible.
daktah said:
can i get some other answers than those of an unhelpful condescending little child, please?
im not a retard i know you cant physically change a screen to have more pixels. what i want is to change the resolution to something along the lines of 720p 1280×720. theres no need to try to put yourself on top of me like your better than me, its a waste of time for you to type me to read and space and bandwidth on xda's servers
close thread
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He actually answered your question quite well and absolutely correctly. Don't be so defensive. There's a lot of smart guys on here and you're really bringing yourself down by (irrationally) not believing him.
Here's my question: when using our video recorder and set it to 720, that's obviously a higher resolution, so does the fone downgrade the quality until its played on a higher resolution screen? Or do we actually see it in 720 as its being recorded? Sorry if this seems like a weird question, the point I'm getting at is the if the fone is playing back the video that's 1280*720 then it wouldn't it be capable of higher resolution? Just wondering
th3_g00b said:
Here's my question: when using our video recorder and set it to 720, that's obviously a higher resolution, so does the fone downgrade the quality until its played on a higher resolution screen? Or do we actually see it in 720 as its being recorded?
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It wouldn't be able to be played in 720 so I would assume it is being downscaled when played on the EVO
063_XOBX said:
It wouldn't be able to be played in 720 so I would assume it is being downscaled when played on the EVO
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Ok thank you
There was an app for windows mobile that would allow you to change the dpi which made the screen look a lot bigger of course everything on the screen was a lot smaller. The way I see it is like the native resolution on a pc monitor usually lower than what it can support aka native might be 800x1024 but you could feed it video at 1280x1600 making everything look smaller but making the screen look much bigger.
So yes he was wrong changing the pixels is impossible but changing the appearance of the screen like stated above is possible. I think that this is what he was trying to say.
063_XOBX said:
It wouldn't be able to be played in 720 so I would assume it is being downscaled when played on the EVO
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Click to collapse
Yeah I would assume it just scales the video in the same way that Windows Media player does when you adjust the size of a video by expanding/contracting the window. The media player on the evo probably has some kind of pixel compensation going on.
Minjin:
I have to agree that you are right, but the 2nd comment was a little condescending. Not all of the people who peruse these forums are quite as technically inclined as some of us.
daktah:
Chill out dude. But to answer your question, no you can't. The size of the pixel is set in the screen, as you get more pixels on the same size display your density increases and the display gets to be more expensive to produce. Screens like the Evo's which are very large are sacrificing resolution for price.
As per your comparison, yes the N1 and Evo have the same resolution, but the N1 has a higher pixel density.
Generally you can't upgrade the resolution of monitors over the native resolution because the driver would have to start to selectively merge or delete lines of pixels to make it fit (or make a scrollable work space). When you downgrade resolution on a display it starts to merge pixels (IE if you put 800x600 on a 1600x1200 display, "1 pixel" is now actually 4 pixels merged to replicate 1
gx1400 said:
Minjin:
I have to agree that you are right, but the 2nd comment was a little condescending. Not all of the people who peruse these forums are quite as technically inclined as some of us.
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When someone says "I refuse to believe", we're not dealing with a lack of technical knowledge, but instead a lack of maturity. My experience with people like that is that you can make the most logically sound argument in the world and it won't do a thing.
cant fix stupid.
QUOTE=daktah;7150273]can i get some other answers than those of an unhelpful condescending little child, please?
im not a retard i know you cant physically change a screen to have more pixels. what i want is to change the resolution to something along the lines of 720p 1280×720. theres no need to try to put yourself on top of me like your better than me, its a waste of time for you to type me to read and space and bandwidth on xda's servers
close thread[/QUOTE]
There are so many stupid questions on here folks getting really tired of being nice
Sent from my Evo on on the Now network from Sprint
oh and duck Apple
I have another question. Does the resolution have anything to do with how vibrant the color of the screen is? Like how on a desktop u can change the contrast and so forth? It would be nice to have an app to adjust those settings
daktah said:
can i get some other answers than those of an unhelpful condescending little child, please?
im not a retard i know you cant physically change a screen to have more pixels. what i want is to change the resolution to something along the lines of 720p 1280×720. theres no need to try to put yourself on top of me like your better than me, its a waste of time for you to type me to read and space and bandwidth on xda's servers
close thread
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Click to collapse
yes, you apparently are a retard. you know that you can't physically change the screen to have more pixels, yet you still want to change the screen to display more pixels. he gives you the answer to your question and you refuse to believe it. tell me, how are you not being retarded?
daktah said:
can i get some other answers than those of an unhelpful condescending little child, please?
im not a retard i know you cant physically change a screen to have more pixels. what i want is to change the resolution to something along the lines of 720p 1280×720. theres no need to try to put yourself on top of me like your better than me, its a waste of time for you to type me to read and space and bandwidth on xda's servers
close thread
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He is better than you though.
So apparently you can do this now... There's an app in the Market or you can edit your own build.prop file and reboot. Make sure you nandroid first.
Hi I want to start this post so everyone can post their experience with the new 720 Recording Feature on the HTC Desire!
Please post Like this:
Video
Description
Problems
FPS
Rom used
I'll start:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NxxPdPd8ea4
Description:
Me being very concentrated while playing the Drums... new song Bad Lighting hard sound situation (way too loud for this little Phone ) so worst case
Problems:
I see constant drops in FPS, or more likely a stuttering ever few seconds video playback just kida stops, audio is fine though! I did not have this Problems with other Roms so I think its not my SD card acting up?
FPS: 5-11 not very constant at all, although lighting was very constant (although very bad)
ROM used: LeeDroid 7.1b
Before official update:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ugjI5ygsXzQ
Average/good lighting
20fps
Can't remember the rom, I think MCR v5, it was before the official update.
Not a lot of stuttering that I can notice, but the lens cover was a bit smudged and so the video came out a bit opaque.
After the update:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S6KuPCn6_2M [quality should improve in a bit]
Probably a tad better lighting conditions
23fps
ieftm semi-stock rom
This is the best sample of three, one was ok, but the last one was stuttering quite a bit, as I think some background program was accessing the sd card heavily. Also lens here was a bit dirty
by the way, youtube quality doesn't render properly, linking videos should be better.
andycted said:
by the way, youtube quality doesn't render properly, linking videos should be better.
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Did not know that, your Video looks very pixelated... Is that because its on Youtube? I will edit main thread thx
finnschi said:
Did not know that, your Video looks very pixelated... Is that because its on Youtube? I will edit main thread thx
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No, I think it was me that turned contrast a bit too high and the fact that without optical zoom or camera lens optics you can get lose details in the distance on such high resolution
I gave up 720p, it is not good. Jumpy, low fps and especially ****ty voice quality.
I use 480p, but it is also not good, not too jumpy ... still ****ty voice quality.
I have 2.2 rom from here and 720p keeps freezing every few seconds.
720p is ok for me. Is it possible that its to do with the internal memory available? I have 60mb or more free, I know some people are down to low numbers. my card is a class2 too. I think the clips look better played on the PC in VLC lpayer than when I upload them to youtube. I think youtube might be introducing some of the negative aspects seen... maybe?
finnschi said:
I'll start:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NxxPdPd8ea4
Description: Me being very concentrated while playing the Drums...
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Click to collapse
Please please please... Can we please take advantage of the user interface of the XDA site?
For six months XDA has now supported YouTube embeds -- You can even see the icon in the COMPOSE screens -- though admittedly they don't tell you how to use it very easily.
BEHOLD! It's your video, and I don't have to click a new tab to see it. Magic!
Format for YouTube Embeds:
(remove spaces)
[ youtube ]just-the-video-letter/numbers[ /youtube ]
From your video above, the part that goes in between the [ youtube ] brackets follows v= NxxPdPd8ea4
Please, could you edit your first post to include the instructions. It has taken years to get XDA to embrace video. Now that they have, please support svetius, the User Experience designer of the new site, and use the tools. That's why they're here. Thank you.
P.S. -- is this jamming to the old WHO classic I CAN SEE FOR MILES ? -- just curious... in the event it is because Roger Daltrey still tours this very summer playing it -- and a friend of mine, a session guitarist in L.A., does Townsend's parts. ... Me, waiting for the answer:
"Dude, who are The Who?"
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P.S.S. Is this not the coolest thing? DUDE! Your bio here at XDA!
Occupation:
R&D at Apple Inc.
Working at Apple research... hating the iPhone
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I gotta applaud you. I have used Apple products for 25 years. And I currently use primarily Mac computers, but I also use Windows machines. Very agnostic. But I have never used the iphone, especially since Apple was nowhere in sight when I started with touchscreen smartphones 5 or 6 years ago (but I salute the Newton!)... But I'm a usability designer, so i consider myself fair. And even though I have wanted my Desire to match or exceed the 720p capability of iphone4 -- i was at the Apple store a few weeks ago getting my damp MBP repaired for 3rd time and played with the iP4 -- and the 720p recording is pretty damn good. ... Lastly -- are you familiar with the various TEST PROJECTS that have been going on here since the Nexus One to optimize 720p in this HTC class of phones? If not, search... There are a whole bunch of serious collaborative engineering projects here, and as always XDA-devs work miracles -- so I'm not giving up hope yet. We may smash that iphone yet in recoding quality -- though I doubt it... I am told it records 30fps and no matter what backflips are done here, thru Froyo or other enhancements, we can't get this hardware to meet or exceed that. Is that true?
720p is crap, its just upscale from lover res., dont use it.
more info:
The data rate of 720p is over 4 times greater than 800x480. 6000kb/sec versus 1200kb/sec. It's not purely upscaled at all. I made two sample videos of a page of text and compared.
There was ALOT more detail in the 720p video. Even when I zoomed up the 800x480 one. I agree it's not as good as "true 720 HD" but its certainly not 100% upscaled.
mcgon1979 said:
The data rate of 720p is over 4 times greater than 800x480. 6000kb/sec versus 1200kb/sec. It's not purely upscaled at all. I made two sample videos of a page of text and compared.
There was ALOT more detail in the 720p video. Even when I zoomed up the 800x480 one. I agree it's not as good as "true 720 HD" but its certainly not 100% upscaled.
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1200:6000 it's 5 times more. Yes it's not true 720 hd, but I can perfectly live with that quality if we get a couple of fps more
I've taken two short videos of a label, took screenshots from video player, cropped them, resized the 480 to fit the same size as the 720 one. It's very blurry compared to the normal 720p. See the hour in the fake pda, you can't read it in the upscaled one.
Video upscalers tend to do a better job than a simple photo resize and they do introduce more data leading to a larger file size. The disire may truly just upscale the video after all. In any case, its a shame that video capture on this device is as poor as it is. I dislike Apple and their iphone, but i'll give them this; all aspects of the software work very well from go and if not, a fix/upgrade is provided in a reasonably short time.
Jaa-Yoo said:
Video upscalers tend to do a better job than a simple photo resize and they do introduce more data leading to a larger file size. The disire may truly just upscale the video after all. In any case, its a shame that video capture on this device is as poor as it is. I dislike Apple and their iphone, but i'll give them this; all aspects of the software work very well from go and if not, a fix/upgrade is provided in a reasonably short time.
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Given the current state of their last shiny toy, I think it's a bit funny to say so.
Anyway, I've done some more tests and I can take the screen captured from a 480 video and upscale it with any tool with best quality or other algorythms and you always end up with a lot less detail than 720p, especially when there is a lot of light (unlike that test above). I don't think the desire has the processing power to do a better upscale than what I'm trying and while there might be a bit of upscaling given you have a tiny lens, it's not all there.
Also any tiny lens without zoom is pointless when taking videos from the distance anyway.
I can only get 15-16 fps... anyone can do higher?
I can easily get 25 average, outside in. good lighting, with a class 6 sd
quicksite said:
P.S. -- is this jamming to the old WHO classic I CAN SEE FOR MILES ? -- just curious... in the event it is because Roger Daltrey still tours this very summer playing it -- and a friend of mine, a session guitarist in L.A., does Townsend's parts. ...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
No its our own song, although i can see how the beginning sounds kinda like the Who
quicksite said:
I gotta applaud you. I have used Apple products for 25 years. And I currently use primarily Mac computers, but I also use Windows machines. Very agnostic. But I have never used the iphone, especially since Apple was nowhere in sight when I started with touchscreen smartphones 5 or 6 years ago (but I salute the Newton!)... But I'm a usability designer, so i consider myself fair. And even though I have wanted my Desire to match or exceed the 720p capability of iphone4 -- i was at the Apple store a few weeks ago getting my damp MBP repaired for 3rd time and played with the iP4 -- and the 720p recording is pretty damn good. ... Lastly -- are you familiar with the various TEST PROJECTS that have been going on here since the Nexus One to optimize 720p in this HTC class of phones? If not, search... There are a whole bunch of serious collaborative engineering projects here, and as always XDA-devs work miracles -- so I'm not giving up hope yet. We may smash that iphone yet in recoding quality -- though I doubt it... I am told it records 30fps and no matter what backflips are done here, thru Froyo or other enhancements, we can't get this hardware to meet or exceed that. Is that true?
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I talked to some iPhone engineers about how the iPhone can archive 30Fps ... its because all the decoding of pictures delivered by the camera is handled by the GPU... for Android its all done on the CPU! so we need to find a way to decode the video stream using the Desires GPU, but I think the iP4's GPU is far better than the Desires... i am a hardware engineer... i am in no way able to code anything like that! What Makes me curios is file size comparison between an iP4 and the Desire.
Also: Desire running a non sense rom (AOSP) just like the Nexus gives much better 720 Quality!!! so I guess its in the software
finnschi said:
I talked to some iPhone engineers about how the iPhone can archive 30Fps ... its because all the decoding of pictures delivered by the camera is handled by the GPU... for Android its all done on the CPU! so we need to find a way to decode the video stream using the Desires GPU, but I think the iP4's GPU is far better than the Desires... i am a hardware engineer... i am in no way able to code anything like that! What Makes me curios is file size comparison between an iP4 and the Desire.
Also: Desire running a non sense rom (AOSP) just like the Nexus gives much better 720 Quality!!! so I guess its in the software
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SInce I am NEITHER a hardware nor software engineer, I am useless here, other than to ask obvious questions. Your apple access to methodology of iP4's video capture is itself useful information -- something that if I were a software engineer working on the various test projects here at XDA, I would want to know. Maybe that's something they could infer, or maybe its published somewhere, or maybe it's one of those "Geez, it's so obvious do i really need to be told that?" points.
That then gets blurred and muddied by the REAL armchair knowitalls (*I* disclose that I know nothing) who pounce on a pronouncement by someone here and say "That's impossible, or that's bullcrap, look here at my image, it proves you wrong, end of story" -- only to often find --- NOT end of story and that person got it wrong.
All i know is -- my experience has told me never presume -- because this site is SO HUGE, it is actually quite often that the right hand doesn't know what left hand is up to.
I wish there were a better means of coordinating the total knowledge holders of XDA site on this 720p issue regarding TOTAL CAPABILITY, software and hardware, so there is 100% collaboration. In the end, there is only one answer: Yes, desire can meet or exceed iphone4 720 p in every measure of resolution, or not.
THE PART I DIDN"T GET:
What Makes me curios is file size comparison between an iP4 and the Desire.
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Which is bigger? what is your initial inference? larger file size = higher rez?
thank you
roufianos cooked a Rom that achieved 29-30 fps but the phone restarted after 50 seconds of recording. Was that due to overheating of the processor? I don't know. His phone gave up spirit and he is waiting for a replacement so the development of his Rom is on pause at the moment.
andycted said:
I can easily get 25 average, outside in. good lighting, with a class 6 sd
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I've not seen more than 23fps in 720p with great lighting. anyone else? I use a Class2 card so maybe using class 6 is why you get 25fps average?
mcgon1979 said:
I've not seen more than 23fps in 720p with great lighting. anyone else? I use a Class2 card so maybe using class 6 is why you get 25fps average?
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Ive managed 26fps @ 720p with my Desire running official unbranded 2.2. Im using a Class 4 card, so that might help over your Class 2.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=saS39iqjDgs
I just compared the youtube clip to the original on my PC (i scaled the VLC window down to the same size as playing the youtube clip in its 'expanded' size) and there is definatly a small quality difference. The details on the original are noticable finer, so even @ 720p on youtube the bitrate must take a small hit.
Here is a screenshot of the comparison.
http://img339.imageshack.us/img339/9005/720pcomparison.jpg
Hey guys this is Saad from Windows Phone Daily,
I thought I'd share this on here since it doesn't look like any of the bigger WP7 sites have picked up on this yet.
A Nokia 900 "Hydra" just leaked from Daily Mobile Forum and it has some really impressive specs: a 4" CBD AMOLED, 1.5 GHz dual-core(!) processor, 720p display, 12MP Carl Zeiss camera, 1080p video recording, and new "swipe gestures" in the OS (maybe something like Windows 8).
More details can be found in our article: http://www.windowsphonedaily.com/2011/10/rumor-nokia-900-hydra-packs-dual-core.html
aaaand here's the original source: http://forum.dailymobile.se/index.php?topic=52961.0
Enjoy!
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too good to be true, but hey
The fact that it claims to have "720p screen resolution" is proof enough that this is not real.
Well there's fake, and then there's this.
First of all the resolution. 720p screen resolution would be a direct violation against all of Microsoft's chassis specifications. The resolution is limited to 800x480 for a reason, to make it easier for developers. If this were true Microsoft would be on the very slippery slope of fragmentation.
To clarify: The platform is currently designed for one resolution and that resolution only. More or less the only possible way to continue from this is screens with the resolution 1600x960, exactly doubled on both sides. This was the way that Apple upgraded the screen between iPhone 3G(S) and iPhone 4 and it was for a very good reason: To keep app compability. If Microsoft were to allow a new resolution almost all apps would need a patch for that new resolution. Would Microsoft kill a majority of their Marketplace? no.
None of the current chassis specifications define any support for a Dual Core processor, so that is not likely at this time, maybe next update.
"Dedicated graphic adapter" sounds a bit fishy. It sounds to a reference to a dedicated GPU chip as opposed to todays SoC chips where everything is integrated on one chip. I'm not an expert in the area but it certainly sounds strange that someone suddenly would design a chip very differently from everyone else.
4 Sterophonic loudspeakers. I think that this certainly sounds strange, not sure what they mean with that.
USB 3.0 and NFC doesn't feel very likely. On the other hand Nokia is able to do this with the special privileges Microsoft gave them. I'm not as certain on this one as the others.
Also, don't you all think that the picture doesn't look very professionally done?
Source post
This was up almost two months ago and a whole load of unresponsible news sites did write the news like this was a fact, absolutely disregarding how obviously fake it is.
Why wont apps be compatible with different resolutions? On Android they work well regardless of what resolution. Whats different in WP?
Sir. Haxalot said:
First of all the resolution. 720p screen resolution would be a direct violation against all of Microsoft's chassis specifications. The resolution is limited to 800x480 for a reason, to make it easier for developers. If this were true Microsoft would be on the very slippery slope of fragmentation.
To clarify: The platform is currently designed for one resolution and that resolution only. More or less the only possible way to continue from this is screens with the resolution 1600x960, exactly doubled on both sides. This was the way that Apple upgraded the screen between iPhone 3G(S) and iPhone 4 and it was for a very good reason: To keep app compability. If Microsoft were to allow a new resolution almost all apps would need a patch for that new resolution. Would Microsoft kill a majority of their Marketplace? no.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Actually, 1200x720 would be a 1.5X increase, so this would work too. The OS could take care of resizing/resampling of graphics resources, while text rendering would automatically be improved. Devs could also upgrade their apps by adding higher-res resources, but it wouldn't break compatibility with older phones. Apple needed to double things because 3GS and older phones had incredibly crappy low-res screens.
I'm sure this will happen anyway, but I doubt that's what MS and OEMs have in mind until the next big update, and I don't think it'll happen in Q1.
On the contrary, judging by the leaks, the next update will be all about decreasing price.
Interesting how the back and search buttons are missing too. Also, the technical specification seems to include a price.
Looks like the picture was drawn by a kid
If true this may be my next device
Almost no bezel at the corners? No way, that looks fake as hell. The only specs I'm really interested now are expendable memory and screen resolution. And a bit more RAM for extended multi-tasking, maybe.
I can't believe people are actually conversing about this trash.
I also can't believe I typed this reply.
And screen resolution doesn't matter in WP7 as the OS uses a scalar. Things would be automatically upscaled. It's why the phone's UI performs well on the launch specs. The resources the phone displays is actually lower resolution that you'd assume they are. iOS doesn't use a scalar so resources have to be appropriately scaled for the display resolution. That's why developers needed to update for iOS5 and develop new iPad apps. Android is similar.
N8ter said:
I can't believe people are actually conversing about this trash.
I also can't believe I typed this reply.
And screen resolution doesn't matter in WP7 as the OS uses a scalar. Things would be automatically upscaled. It's why the phone's UI performs well on the launch specs. The resources the phone displays is actually lower resolution that you'd assume they are. iOS doesn't use a scalar so resources have to be appropriately scaled for the display resolution. That's why developers needed to update for iOS5 and develop new iPad apps. Android is similar.
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I don't know what you are talking about. I've looked into a Dumped ROM & extracted the PNG's from the DLL's & they are full size. They are NOT low res images scaled up. If they were, they'd look blurry like early WVGA Titanium Themes that were just edited WQVGA CPR's with no changes to the graphics. The Tiles & Icons are 173x173/62 x 62 pixels. That is full size. The 1st Part Tiles & Icons are a bit smaller only because they are just the Icons inside the Tiles, not the whole Tile like for 3rd Party apps. Developers have been making their Tiles cheaply. You'll notice the Tile image is called Background, meaning it's the background of the Tile Image & there should be a separate Tile Icon that goes "over" it.
To get back on topic, I highly doubt this is real as per resolution unless MS actually gave Nokia special permissions to edit the UIB/UIX files. They are pretty much like the CPR's of Titanium, just compiled so we can't edit them ourselves yet. We have no tools to decompile/recompile them.
Wouldn't be as unbelievable if this was a Q3 device (though, ideally we'll have faster by then), but a Q1? Naaaah
Nearly every spec isn't supported. Fake.
Sir. Haxalot said:
First of all the resolution. 720p screen resolution would be a direct violation against all of Microsoft's chassis specifications. The resolution is limited to 800x480 for a reason, to make it easier for developers. If this were true Microsoft would be on the very slippery slope of fragmentation.
To clarify: The platform is currently designed for one resolution and that resolution only. More or less the only possible way to continue from this is screens with the resolution 1600x960, exactly doubled on both sides. This was the way that Apple upgraded the screen between iPhone 3G(S) and iPhone 4 and it was for a very good reason: To keep app compability. If Microsoft were to allow a new resolution almost all apps would need a patch for that new resolution. Would Microsoft kill a majority of their Marketplace? no.
None of the current chassis specifications define any support for a Dual Core processor, so that is not likely at this time, maybe next update.
"Dedicated graphic adapter" sounds a bit fishy. It sounds to a reference to a dedicated GPU chip as opposed to todays SoC chips where everything is integrated on one chip. I'm not an expert in the area but it certainly sounds strange that someone suddenly would design a chip very differently from everyone else.
4 Sterophonic loudspeakers. I think that this certainly sounds strange, not sure what they mean with that.
USB 3.0 and NFC doesn't feel very likely. On the other hand Nokia is able to do this with the special privileges Microsoft gave them. I'm not as certain on this one as the others.
Also, don't you all think that the picture doesn't look very professionally done?
Source post
This was up almost two months ago and a whole load of unresponsible news sites did write the news like this was a fact, absolutely disregarding how obviously fake it is.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Wow you're really out to get me Sir. Haxalot!
I am aware that this is from August, and I apologize for reporting on it as though it was new. However, this is not "obviously fake". Like I said in the article and my reply to you in the comments section, it is very likely that these specs will be introduced in the future. There's no reason why you can rule that out, unless you're Microsoft's lead Windows Phone manager.
It is a rumor and yes there are some things that do stretch the limits of reality--mostly the Q1 release which is completely ridiculous. BUT Nokia hasn't denied it and Microsoft hasn't denied it, so until then I will report on it.
OGCF said:
Wow you're really out to get me Sir. Haxalot!
I am aware that this is from August, and I apologize for reporting on it as though it was new. However, this is not "obviously fake". Like I said in the article and my reply to you in the comments section, it is very likely that these specs will be introduced in the future. There's no reason why you can rule that out, unless you're Microsoft's lead Windows Phone manager.
It is a rumor and yes there are some things that do stretch the limits of reality--mostly the Q1 release which is completely ridiculous. BUT Nokia hasn't denied it and Microsoft hasn't denied it, so until then I will report on it.
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the problem is you're "reporting" something that isn't real by any stretch of the imagination. fake nonsense rumors like this fly so far below the radar of companies like MSFT and Nokia that they don't even know it exists, much less have the desire to deny it.
looks like kids drawing or someone in the night market drawed it...lol
This is fake. I thought everyone knew that. It's embarrassing that you would post it on your website EVEN with the disclaimer that it's just a rumor. This mockup is brought to you by the same fool that opened up paint for this one too:
Sir. Haxalot said:
First of all the resolution. 720p screen resolution would be a direct violation against all of Microsoft's chassis specifications. The resolution is limited to 800x480 for a reason, to make it easier for developers. If this were true Microsoft would be on the very slippery slope of fragmentation.
To clarify: The platform is currently designed for one resolution and that resolution only. More or less the only possible way to continue from this is screens with the resolution 1600x960, exactly doubled on both sides. This was the way that Apple upgraded the screen between iPhone 3G(S) and iPhone 4 and it was for a very good reason: To keep app compability. If Microsoft were to allow a new resolution almost all apps would need a patch for that new resolution. Would Microsoft kill a majority of their Marketplace? no.
None of the current chassis specifications define any support for a Dual Core processor, so that is not likely at this time, maybe next update.
"Dedicated graphic adapter" sounds a bit fishy. It sounds to a reference to a dedicated GPU chip as opposed to todays SoC chips where everything is integrated on one chip. I'm not an expert in the area but it certainly sounds strange that someone suddenly would design a chip very differently from everyone else.
4 Sterophonic loudspeakers. I think that this certainly sounds strange, not sure what they mean with that.
USB 3.0 and NFC doesn't feel very likely. On the other hand Nokia is able to do this with the special privileges Microsoft gave them. I'm not as certain on this one as the others.
Also, don't you all think that the picture doesn't look very professionally done?
Source post
This was up almost two months ago and a whole load of unresponsible news sites did write the news like this was a fact, absolutely disregarding how obviously fake it is.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Right on the money here. 100% fake.
Yes it's quite obvious the photo and what not is fake. However, someone email this to Nokia and make it happen for Apollo.
Not very much out there on the 3d Scan capabilities. Any info available about resolution or export formats? Is it even working currently?
it is working sort of, after update it doesn't work for people and faces anymore, it's also very finicky about light, angles etc., but it can be done with patience. According to specs it supposed to be VGA and VGA should be 640x480??, but who knows in reality. It's a new tech, so I'm hoping for 3rd party apps in few months. When I did couple proper scans, it actually looked pretty good and you could probably export the data to other programs for more processing, maybe even 3D builder or 3D paint in Win10, but I haven't tried it yet. Personally I think it has potential, but it will take some time to develop software to take full advantage of it. There is also laser based distance measuring app based on TOF sensor on 10+, but again it has some limitations like max distance and reliability. Bottom line, doesn't bother anything by being there even if never used, but it could be useful in ways difficult to predict right now, so we will see.
Any update on this?
O4karitO said:
Any update on this?
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I've used it with success to create a 3d scan of a vehicle part that I had mocked up, exported to obj to push/pull points, then offloaded the g code to my cnc.
That's actually quite impressive
Thanks