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pcmag is sensatinalising things, stating android was sued into stopping wifi tethering...then going to be sued out of existwance by apple... now this
source
http://mobile.pcmag.com/device2/art.../www.pcmag.com/article2/0,2817,2384840,00.asp
Analyst Says Real Microsoft WP7 Sales Are 'Catastrophic'
By Sara Yin Tweet
Russian tech blogger and analyst Eldar Murtazin, the man credited for predicting the Nokia-Microsoft tie-up way back in December, has published a damning report that claims Microsoft sold only 674,000 Windows Phone 7 devices in its first six weeks.
there is more, hit the link
I don't know their sources.. But, if this is true, our devices are doomed.
mikeeam said:
I don't know their sources.. But, if this is true, our devices are doomed.
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Click to collapse
No, they are not. Microsoft is in this for the long haul and have been since WinMo. You think WinMo's sales were good? Look how long the Zune lasted.
Your phone will last longer than most geeks own a handset, and at least longer than the contract people would have signed.
The only doom and gloom the nay-sayers are speculating on is if Mango will be supported by current handsets. I guess you have to panic people somehow.
imho check the pockenow.com comments
actually they tell a FAR better story about thie "sales" number
and let's not forget eldar has been wrong, and a lot. Remember the nexus one being an apple brainchild, yeah he said that...
I mean as far as reporting devices in hand he is good. But some rumors or anything, he sucks
I think we all need to calm down, enjoy our devices, and care less about unofficial announcements and rumours.
i saw few video demos by MS is working really hard to make WP7 THE os to be on mobiles....
and with Nokia on board it looks like MS will be a player as right now HTC is the biggest OEM and their 75% devices are Android.... with nokia in the game i an hoping to see much better HTC devices (as the current HD7 is not good enough)..
i will not bother what ppl say as the mango will speak for it self...
MS also have came up with tools to migrate/redevelop iOS games for WP7 with less effort, come on guys if you are using a smartphone you should be smarter then this..
imho
I am pretty sure the numbers are close to 3-4 million
Whatever it is - 2 or 3 millions, half a year after premiere is catastrophic. If you guys use WM argument, it's a bad one. I mean they are IN it for years and still not beeing able to catchup?
And actually WM finally doesn't exist anymore.
These numbers mean WP7 is selling a bit more devices A MONTH than Android A DAY. Lol.
My intuition says WP7 is not appealing for users en masse.
But market is not something you can just easily predict. Nokia deal will be probably a main changing factor.
Currently with unstoppable Android devices show and lack of any response from WP7 world things will not be better but worse. I'm afraid WP7 will became a "geek" platform.
Android has sooo many sexy new phones coming out. I'm not leaving WP7 but I am jealous of the hardware they use. A few high profile phones would help WP7 a lot.
The general public seems to think all smart phones are iPhone. There needs to be a mass marketing campaign to deprogram them.
Not a single person who has used my phone dislikes it. I'm sure if more people knew about it more people would buy it.
I am hoping that the Nokia deal puts Wp7 in the hands of millions more people. IMO it's the best mobile OS out there.
Using 2010 data he claims he received from operators and retailers, Murtazin said Microsoft only sold 674,000 WP7 units in November and December, when you take out the number of phones given to all its employees.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Using 2010 Data
Take out employee
TIGGAH said:
Android has sooo many sexy new phones coming out. I'm not leaving WP7 but I am jealous of the hardware they use. .
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Click to collapse
Feel the same way, especially after seeing the galaxy s2 review.
jtn04 said:
Feel the same way, especially after seeing the galaxy s2 review.
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newer hardware. newer UI. Same experience...might as well just stick with the older Android phones. The hardware doesn't even sway me anymore. Hardware is good enough to play games easily but I kinda need my phone for its phone features. Once you hit those games, battery tanks >.<
And they say that dual core saves battery life..but that's just referring to usage if the radios were off right? Because I doubt that dual core phones would speed up that radio because reviews don't mention it...so battery life won't be better at all as long as the radio is still eating up power like single core phones.
WP7 all the way for this guy. I kinda like how I'm in the same boat and will be in the same boat as other people with WP7 no matter what device they have. They get an update, I know I'll get the update too.
doministry said:
Whatever it is - 2 or 3 millions, half a year after premiere is catastrophic. If you guys use WM argument, it's a bad one. I mean they are IN it for years and still not beeing able to catchup?
And actually WM finally doesn't exist anymore.
These numbers mean WP7 is selling a bit more devices A MONTH than Android A DAY. Lol.
My intuition says WP7 is not appealing for users en masse.
But market is not something you can just easily predict. Nokia deal will be probably a main changing factor.
Currently with unstoppable Android devices show and lack of any response from WP7 world things will not be better but worse. I'm afraid WP7 will became a "geek" platform.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
android was a largely geek platform before verizon's droid does campaigns...
doministry said:
Whatever it is - 2 or 3 millions, half a year after premiere is catastrophic. If you guys use WM argument, it's a bad one. I mean they are IN it for years and still not beeing able to catchup?
And actually WM finally doesn't exist anymore.
These numbers mean WP7 is selling a bit more devices A MONTH than Android A DAY. Lol.
My intuition says WP7 is not appealing for users en masse.
But market is not something you can just easily predict. Nokia deal will be probably a main changing factor.
Currently with unstoppable Android devices show and lack of any response from WP7 world things will not be better but worse. I'm afraid WP7 will became a "geek" platform.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
How is the WM argument a bad one? My post was in response to someone saying their device was doomed. I will word this very carefully:
Your device is only doomed if development and support ceases to exist. There are two levels of support: Manufacturer (Microsoft) and Community (XDA). WinMo is not totally dead yet because of this site, nor are the devices (HD2 for example) dead yet.
In general, sales matter because without sales companies fold. But in this particular case, Microsoft will continue to do develop and support Windows Phone. The Nokia agreement was the first big, public sign of that.
I do not see Windows Phone 7 being scrapped for a Windows Phone 8 in 2012. Scrapped meaning development and support for Windows Phone 7 ceasing to exist. Will your HTC HD7 get Windows Phone 8? Who knows for sure. But Microsoft is in it to win it, no matter how long it takes.
So it would be nice for Windows Phones sales to be 10M in the first month, but not a do or die. If I did not have plans to buy an Android Tablet and replace my old notebook, I would pick up a Trophy right now (cheapest 1GHz phone I can find on the market).
A Canalys report just released implies that Q1 2011 shipments for WP7 were in the 2.4 million range. That doesn't contradict the PC Mag report, other than for the people trying to spin the 674,000 sales figures as being for the entire time since release. It does show some steady, but slow growth:
http://wmpoweruser.com/canalys-around-2-4-million-windows-phones-shipped-in-q1-2011/
nicksti said:
How is the WM argument a bad one? My post was in response to someone saying their device was doomed. I will word this very carefully:
Your device is only doomed if development and support ceases to exist. There are two levels of support: Manufacturer (Microsoft) and Community (XDA). WinMo is not totally dead yet because of this site, nor are the devices (HD2 for example) dead yet.
In general, sales matter because without sales companies fold. But in this particular case, Microsoft will continue to do develop and support Windows Phone. The Nokia agreement was the first big, public sign of that.
I do not see Windows Phone 7 being scrapped for a Windows Phone 8 in 2012. Scrapped meaning development and support for Windows Phone 7 ceasing to exist. Will your HTC HD7 get Windows Phone 8? Who knows for sure. But Microsoft is in it to win it, no matter how long it takes.
So it would be nice for Windows Phones sales to be 10M in the first month, but not a do or die. If I did not have plans to buy an Android Tablet and replace my old notebook, I would pick up a Trophy right now (cheapest 1GHz phone I can find on the market).
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
That is totally true. The development keeps the platform alive and is one of the signs of it's life.
I'd never say MS has scrapped the platform for WP8. Nokia deal... Well it's not that clear for me.
However it's also true MS doesn't hurry bringing some changes which would make the platform better. No new top end devices actually is a catastrophe.
My point was the market is not predictable. So even with MS involvement lack of any success will not push it's development in the future.
ms79723 said:
newer hardware. newer UI. Same experience...might as well just stick with the older Android phones. The hardware doesn't even sway me anymore. Hardware is good enough to play games easily but I kinda need my phone for its phone features. Once you hit those games, battery tanks >.<
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
It's not the same experience, if the UI is different... Unless you're using a different definition of "experience." I think that will be the case moreso for WP7 than for Android. There will be less incentive to upgrade a WP7 phone due to the limits on customization and the strict hardware specs, in addition to the "guarantee" that all handsets will get the same OS upgrades
And they say that dual core saves battery life..but that's just referring to usage if the radios were off right? Because I doubt that dual core phones would speed up that radio because reviews don't mention it...so battery life won't be better at all as long as the radio is still eating up power like single core phones.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
The radio is used the same on single and dual core phones. The Dual Cores save battery life regardless. The newer CPUs by default draw less power than the older CPUs, and running two cores at half capacity often results in less draw than running a single core at near full capacity (i.e. media playback, multi-tasking, etc.).
Again, the radio in both are pretty similar, but a more efficient processor will obviously result in less power usage. It's not hard to figure that out...
WP7 all the way for this guy. I kinda like how I'm in the same boat and will be in the same boat as other people with WP7 no matter what device they have. They get an update, I know I'll get the update too.
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Click to collapse
The Android Manufacturers are getting better with updates as well. From the way things are looking, Epic 4G/Vibrant users in the US may get Gingerbread around the same time (if not before) WP7 devices get Mango...
IIRC, the Samsung WP7 devices are still having update issues?
nicksti said:
Microsoft is in it to win it, no matter how long it takes.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
That will not make consumers buy the phones. I think a distinction needs to be made...
Just because a company is in it to win it and spends tons of money on advertising, doesn't mean consumers will buy it.
Consumers tend to make comparative decisions. They weigh the benefits of one product towards another one.
The only way they can avoid that, is if the WP7 devices are price so low that they can win sales based on price.
But carriers will probably still subsidize them to the same price as anything else to make more profits off of them. Since most users get their phones form a carrier, well... You finish that statement.
I'm sure Microsoft wanted Microsoft Bob and Windows Me to be a winners as well...
I'm honestly tired of people saying Microsoft isn't bringing "big changes to catch up to the competition" then what in the hell is Mango? I mean, I must honestly be dreaming of it's inclusions, right? Nobody consistently *****es at Apple for not releasing OSX updates monthly to "catch Windows" do they? Would I love to see a new feature every day of my life? Sure. But for anybody with half a brain who has viewed the demoes of Mango can see how tightly integrated most of these new features are. One feature feeds into another, which feeds into another, such as the Bing searches. When Apple releases an update yearly for iOS I don't hear complaints.
Some of you guys have unrealistic expectations and have this notion that you can manage Microsoft's resources and marketing better. So, I wonder, why you aren't in their position since you can handle it so much better. I continue to point out that Microsoft hasn't gotten to their position by making bad decisions, and have actually succeeded at almost every thing they have ever entered... Regardless of what was necessary.
Mango addresses a significant number of complaints, and these features aren't implemented in two days time. Software development takes a significant amount of time. We have companies dedicated to one program, ONE, and it takes them a year+ to release a miniscule update.
People also fail to remember than Android was a "failure" by most of your standards until Verizon completely took over their marketing campaign with their Droid advertisements filling up every other commercial slot. Now, regardless of carrier or device, an Android phone is dubbed a "Droid" and it's owner will tell you that it "Does." Eventually, Windows Phone WILL reach this level, this is Microsoft we're speaking about here.
I understand you guys are upset that it isn't Windows Phone, but to dub it a failure and to remove credit from Microsoft from scrapping a known enterprise system and diving head first into a consumer oriented "pretty" phone market is also unfair to this company. Call me a fan boy, but I see myself more of a realist, and having a father which develops extremely important software for a living, I understand this takes time.
N8ter said:
That will not make consumers buy the phones. I think a distinction needs to be made...
Just because a company is in it to win it and spends tons of money on advertising, doesn't mean consumers will buy it.
Consumers tend to make comparative decisions. They weigh the benefits of one product towards another one.
The only way they can avoid that, is if the WP7 devices are price so low that they can win sales based on price.
But carriers will probably still subsidize them to the same price as anything else to make more profits off of them. Since most users get their phones form a carrier, well... You finish that statement.
I'm sure Microsoft wanted Microsoft Bob and Windows Me to be a winners as well...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
N8ter,
If your reponse is your expansion then I think you need to say it, because too often it seems what you are responding to something that was not said.
I did not say Microsoft being in it to win it would affect sales positively. Actually none of what I said had anything to do with increased sales. A poster made a statement saying if it is all true about the low sales then his/her phone is doomed. My response was just saying even though ordinarily poor sales will doom products, Windows Phone will not be doomed so easily. I also tried to define what doom meant.
It will take more than 1 year of poor sales to doom Windows Phone.
Fresh comment:
There are people on this board that believe the poor response to Windows Phone is due to its lack of features and it being a beta os.
Question - What due diligence does the average person do before picking up a contract phone?
Here is my thinking - even some nerds on this forum did not fully understand what they were getting into. In theory the fresh looking UI and the device offering should have been enough.
I do not know but the average person would not have known Windows Phone could not do custom ringtones. Or sync natively with Outlook. Or all the other stuff. They would have asked about features like: Wifi, 3G, Video Calling (not there), Facebook, Emails, etc. In theory they would have bought it, a sale would be registered, and they would have returned it. Companies tend to conveniently tell you sales, not sales minus returns.
I do not know the answer, but I suspect the answer is not easy.
http://www.osnews.com/story/25480/Microsoft_To_Acquire_Nokia_s_Smartphone_Division_
.......
Microsoft To Acquire Nokia's Smartphone Division? posted by Thom Holwerda on Thu 5th Jan 2012 11:25 UTC This rumour is not new, nor is it particularly earth-shattering. However, with Windows Phone 7 failing to make a dent in the market place, and Nokia's Lumia 800 not making huge waves either, the rumour's been taken out of the shed again: Microsoft is supposedly acquiring Nokia's smartphone division later this year. Stephen Elop will resign from Nokia shortly afterwards.
This time around, the rumour's being rekindled by Eldar Murtazin, the Russian editor-in-chief of Mobile-Review.com. He has a pretty good track record regarding Nokia, and has often had very, very early access to device prototypes and other information. However, as always, a firm pile of salt should be readily available at all times when reading this.
"Steve Balmer, Andy Lees and Stephen Elop, Kai Ostamo will meet in Las Vegas to finalize agreement about Nokia smartphone unit," he tweeted. The deal is apparently so that Microsoft also gets a few manufacturing plants, and, of course, an extensive patent portfolio. The Nokia name is set to disappear from the Microsoft smartphones that would follow from this acquisition.
It would leave Nokia with its feature phone business, networking equipment, and an assortment of other activities. While many think this would mean the end of Nokia, I highly doubt it will be - the company is 140 years old, has survived multiple crises and product transitions (they started out as a paper company, after all). Nokia will survive, even without smartphones, but that doesn't make it any less tragic.
This deal certainly wouldn't surprise me in the slightest. It's becoming ever more clear that all those naysayers were right, back when the Microsoft-Nokia deal was announced. Stephen Elop is a mole, with only one goal: to drive Nokia into the ground, so that Microsoft can swoop in and acquire the interesting parts for a relatively low price. The N9 demonstrated that Nokia did have an option besides the failing Windows Phone 7, and that the deal with Microsoft wasn't a necessity at all.
We'll have to see how it all pans out over the course of 2012, but this doesn't seem like a crazy prediction. Sad.
.......
Patent mongering ?
Company absorbtion ?
Apple-like hardware control ?
Discuss
wouldn't be surprising. Symbian still the most used smartphone OS, I just don't understand why the company didn't improve, and update it. They killed the proven Symbian OS ,for a unproven unpopular OS that they have no control over.
Sent from my Nexus S
It won't surprise me either.
My 2 years old Symbian nokia, can do at least everything my WP7 can do, + even much more things.
the only problema is the screen-res thats 320x240.
Nokia went from actually good OS with no future, to an actually bad OS, with a very doubt future.
Eh, last I checked the lumia 800 series was doing great in Europe...
z33dev33l said:
Eh, last I checked the lumia 800 series was doing great in Europe...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
If you have a link to official sales numbers, please post. I've read a lot of speculation on both +/- for sales over there, but no official numbers.
Either way, I'm second guessing microsofts intentions, if any.
I started ignoring anything Eldar Murtazin says a long time ago
ohgood said:
If you have a link to official sales numbers, please post. I've read a lot of speculation on both +/- for sales over there, but no official numbers.
Either way, I'm second guessing microsofts intentions, if any.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Strangely the same request for confirmation doesnt seem to be made when the talk is of low WP7 sales, just accepted as the truth.
Anyway, Nokia has denied it, update at the botttom of this story: http://www.slashgear.com/microsofts-nokia-smartphone-division-acquisition-tipped-imminent-05206304/
The rumor may or may not be true (and it most likely is not), but public denials are not now, nor have they ever been, proof that an acquisition is not imminent. I have worked for numerous companies that have been acquired, and in every case, right up until the day the acquisition was officially announced, the companies that I worked for denied the "rumors". That is just standard business practice to avoid too much market volatility.
efjay said:
Strangely the same request for confirmation doesnt seem to be made when the talk is of low WP7 sales, just accepted as the truth.
Anyway, Nokia has denied it, update at the botttom of this story: http://www.slashgear.com/microsofts-nokia-smartphone-division-acquisition-tipped-imminent-05206304/
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Click to collapse
yep the truth is still tied up somewhere... apple loves to flaunt 4 million sales in a weekend, android 500,000+ activations a day... and microsoft, balmer only says that sales were less than expected. not much to go on. :-(
you mentioned the update, her's the text:
Update: Nokia UK has given us the following comment:
“We’ve put these rumours to rest a long time ago. The focus for Nokia is on executing on our partnership around Windows Phone and growing the ecosystem, and each company has the tools they need to do so”
yes, that sounds like the normal corporate-speak for "we don't want insider trading or speculations hurting our stocks" as normal.
still waiting on official numbers, and apparently waiting a little longer for a possible aquisition.
It would be awesome if MS could have their own branded phones like Apple.
hexcorev2 said:
It would be awesome if MS could have their own branded phones like Apple.
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Click to collapse
Well that would upset HTC, Samsung etc. and also take all the Nokia-coolness away from the phones.
slimshady322 said:
Well that would upset HTC, Samsung etc. and also take all the Nokia-coolness away from the phones.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
posted before I did
the nokia venture is ultimately a bad idea especially if it is relegated to the dumb phone scene
vetvito said:
wouldn't be surprising. Symbian still the most used smartphone OS, I just don't understand why the company didn't improve, and update it. They killed the proven Symbian OS ,for a unproven unpopular OS that they have no control over.
Sent from my Nexus S
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You would say that.
Where again where Symbian sales heading for Nokia? They were bleeding marketshare. The writing was on the wall for Symbian. Argue that Nokia should have gone to Android, but not that they should not have stuck with Symbian.
Symbian was not going anywhere positive. The overhead of making your own software has exponential penalties when you are losing sales. The app catalogue was not progressing. Now instead of slowly dying like RIM, Nokia made a gamble. Microsoft could provide them with some perks that the open source world of Android could not.
Now, just like I see a conflict of interest with Google owning Motorola, I see a problem with Microsoft owning Nokia. But maybe they can spin it like Google did -
"We did this to protect the ecosystem. Motorola will operate separately. Don't be worried."
nokia showed an overall growth w/ symbian last year
isn't that extremely positive for a sinking ship
And it is still number one in terms of international handset maker even if samsung is closing in really fast
nicksti said:
You would say that.
Where again where Symbian sales heading for Nokia? They were bleeding marketshare. The writing was on the wall for Symbian. Argue that Nokia should have gone to Android, but not that they should not have stuck with Symbian.
Symbian was not going anywhere positive. The overhead of making your own software has exponential penalties when you are losing sales. The app catalogue was not progressing. Now instead of slowly dying like RIM, Nokia made a gamble. Microsoft could provide them with some perks that the open source world of Android could not.
Now, just like I see a conflict of interest with Google owning Motorola, I see a problem with Microsoft owning Nokia. But maybe they can spin it like Google did -
"We did this to protect the ecosystem. Motorola will operate separately. Don't be worried."
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Selective reading? You miss the part where I said "improve". All they had to do was update.
You do know Symbian still outsells Win phone, don't you?
Sent from my Nexus S
Saying all Nokia had to do is improve Symbian is kind of like saying all Microsoft needed to do to compete with the iPhone was to improve Windows Mobile
Anyway, it looks like the market and analysts are now expecting good things from Nokia. Hopefully they are right
technically speaking, winphone is a improvement of WM. Unless you're not thinking logically.
Sent from my Nexus S
vetvito said:
Selective reading? You miss the part where I said "improve". All they had to do was update.
You do know Symbian still outsells Win phone, don't you?
Sent from my Nexus S
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I did not selectively read. Because improving it oh so easy. The OS was flat not not attractive. Symbian Anna and Belle are improvements but its nowhere near Android.
Your product is crap. Just improve it.
Last numbers I saw Symbian was still the #1 OS in certain markets. That because Nokia puts Symbian on near everything. Have you owned any Symbian phones? I have. Remember Nokia's share used to be 40%. Last number I saw was in the 20s. Why? Smartphone explosion.
Symbian was sinking and taking Nokia with them. Fact.
So you ditch it, and still sink? Meego was a great alternative, all I'm saying is don't foolishly put all your eggs in one basket.
Symbian, Meego, and Winphone couldve helped Nokia.
Sent from my Nexus S
vetvito said:
So you ditch it, and still sink? Meego was a great alternative, all I'm saying is don't foolishly put all your eggs in one basket.
Symbian, Meego, and Winphone couldve helped Nokia.
Sent from my Nexus S
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
What about the expenses and overheads of the company? What about the business aspect of that decision? Nokia's problem was they had too many OSes.
Symbian S40, S60 5th edition, Symbian UIQ, S^3, Meego, Maemo. And a partridge in a pear tree.
But in a btw, since 'killing off" Symbian, they have released updates and new phones using Symbian. Maybe there is a place for Symbian like there is a place for Bada and Brew.
Vet, you obvious do not like Windows Phone. At all. But Symbian was a dead end. And Meego? Cmon. They are not getting to 50,000 apps in under a year with Meego. The only valid argument I can understand is Nokia should have ditched Symbian for Android.
So basically what we are going to get is just the "new" start screen? nothing else? like maps powered by nokia, skype integration?
I would love to know too. Almost sold my Lumia already, but I dont know which phone I get instead it. I'll keep it for a while.
Guess we will know in a few days, no one knows it right now.
Paul Thurrott has a write-up about this here:
http://www.winsupersite.com/article/windowsphone75/windows-phone-78-preview-143476
Wait.. No multitasking? Nor Skype integrated!?!?
Seems like MS is doing everything to loose these 1-2% of the smartphones market...
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=1722502
I wont buy another windows phone anymore! I liked windows phone so much, but microsoft disappoint me with no updates for first generation devices. If the old phones would also get the new kernel, app-compability and skype-integration, then would it be enough. But Microsoft is ****ing stupid and dropps the little amount of windows phone users in only one day!
luizmeme said:
So basically what we are going to get is just the "new" start screen? nothing else? like maps powered by nokia, skype integration?
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Click to collapse
I just contacted the WinPhoneSupport:
http://www.twitter.com/WinPhoneSupport/status/215556734205435904
@WinPhoneSupport: @ChrisK91 The only thing announced for 7.8 is the change of the start screen. ^EB
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ruyzalim said:
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=1722502
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Click to collapse
It's a stupid marketing bull**** from MS guy... This Belfiore guy wrote:
Windows Phone 8 is a generation shift in technology, which means that it will not run on existing hardware. BUT we care deeply about our existing customers and want to keep their phones fresh, so we’re providing the new Start screen in this new update.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
It's a complete bull****! "shift in technology"... He should try Galaxy S III first!
But the facts are:
- MS just made stupidest decision in a years. Probably next 5 month WP7 sales will fall to 0.
- also, I'm expecting the app developers (as I am) will stop developing new stuff for "outdated" WP7 platform;
- it's a painful blow to manufacturers, especially to Nokia! Who will buy "gorgeous Lumia 900" now if it become outdated old piece of hardware so shortly? Check ebay in few days - Lumia 900 price will be bellow $200...
- and, finally, the most important thing: Microsoft has lost the trust and loyalty of customers. Who will spend money for "brand new" WP8 if next year they will announce WP9?
So, my conclusion: it's a very good time to sell MS stocks right now! Don't wait and risk your money...
freddx said:
I wont buy another windows phone anymore! I liked windows phone so much, but microsoft disappoint me with no updates for first generation devices. If the old phones would also get the new kernel, app-compability and skype-integration, then would it be enough. But Microsoft is ****ing stupid and dropps the little amount of windows phone users in only one day!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Calm down... Don't you know what a kernel change means? It's like installing linux over windows on your PC. The OEM would start from scratch, rewrite every driver on the device (cpu, gpu, display, buttons, touch, accelerometer, compass, bluetooth, wlan... And the list goes on forever), that would take about 9 months at least. The OEM would loose more money than it would get.
jessenic said:
Calm down... Don't you know what a kernel change means? It's like installing linux over windows on your PC. The OEM would start from scratch, rewrite every driver on the device (cpu, gpu, display, buttons, touch, accelerometer, compass, bluetooth, wlan... And the list goes on forever), that would take about 9 months at least. The OEM would loose more money than it would get.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Sorry I was in rage....but an update with more features would be nice The "old" hardware can do more than only a new start screen. Apple even gives a iOS6 lite to the 3Gs and all appstore-apps are compatible...
sensboston said:
It's a stupid marketing bull**** from MS guy... This Belfiore guy wrote:
It's a complete bull****! "shift in technology"... He should try Galaxy S III first!
But the facts are:
- MS just made stupidest decision in a years. Probably next 5 month WP7 sales will fall to 0.
- also, I'm expecting the app developers (as I am) will stop developing new stuff for "outdated" WP7 platform;
- it's a painful blow to manufacturers, especially to Nokia! Who will buy "gorgeous Lumia 900" now if it become outdated old piece of hardware so shortly? Check ebay in few days - Lumia 900 price will be bellow $200...
- and, finally, the most important thing: Microsoft has lost the trust and loyalty of customers. Who will spend money for "brand new" WP8 if next year they will announce WP9?
So, my conclusion: it's a very good time to sell MS stocks right now! Don't wait and risk your money...
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You shouldn't sell MS stocks right now, because of one developer summit. Of course, there are a lot of disappointed users (including me) about the way MS took. But I don't think that every point in your list is valid. I doubt that WP7 sales will drop to 0. There are a lot of people buying phones based on feel. However I guess the WP7 sales will decrease in the coming months. At least the sales of new expensive devices like the Titan or Lumia 900. I also expect the prices of current handsets to drop over a few days.
Microsofts course could harm Nokia, I totally agree. When they made Nokia Drive available to every device, Nokia lost a unique selling point. One of the reasons why I bought a Lumia 800 was the free navigation. I'm expecting that Nokia's stock will drop even further in the coming days, if there aren't any new announcements that "improve" the current situation.
I also get that developers will target new phones. However how do you develop for Windows 8 and Windows Phone 8? Most likely with C# and the .Net framework. And guess what? You can run .Net based Apps on Windows Phone 7 as well. But at first I was also skeptical about this question and asked it in a Nokia Conversations discussion. The answer of a Nokia employee is attached.
the most important thing: Microsoft has lost the trust and loyalty of customers.
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I totally agree. However they can gain (at least my) trust back by providing not only the new start screen, but other improvements as well. The rumored new notification system comes to mind.
All in all I guess this announcement did not resolve the current update situation. In a nutshell MS stated that WP8 will be based on a new kernel and that this new kernel won't come to existing devices. Most of the new announcements were hardware related. One of the software things is the start screen, and this one is coming in Windows Phone 7.8. Did did not say, that this start screen is the only thing in this update. As stated above, MS should release (and continue releasing) updates that add WP8 functionality to WP7.
jessenic said:
Calm down... Don't you know what a kernel change means? It's like installing linux over windows on your PC. The OEM would start from scratch, rewrite every driver on the device (cpu, gpu, display, buttons, touch, accelerometer, compass, bluetooth, wlan... And the list goes on forever), that would take about 9 months at least. The OEM would loose more money than it would get.
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Well it's of course expensive. But if Microsoft stays coherent with the kernel they could most likely reuse the code in the future. But I think the problem is hardware related. On one side there are the NFC features. Also the SecureBoot can't be integrated (at least AFAIK) only software vise. They have special hardware requirements and current phones don't meet them. Then again, the current CPUs are very fast and can run the Windows Phone 7.8 experience.
Chris, you are optimistic guy (and it's OK!) but I believe we do have more points for pessimism now...
What's happened - it's not a hardware-related but just marketing (read - stupid marketing!) issue. Microsoft is copying Apple's strategy now (probably they planned to sell own MS handsets) but without Steve Jobs magic it's hopeless...
MS public persons explanations - it's a bull****, don't trust 'em! It's like a "4 GB limitation of x86 OS'es" (what is an outrageous lie). I'm 99% sure it's happened because of two reasons:
- they want to "save" (he-he) some money for dropping old handsets support ;
- but the primary reason (I think so): they want to sell their own handsets
Also, unsuccessful WP7 marketing campaign during last two years should open our eyes...
I'd like to be optimistic but...
@sensbottom: let me correct your two mistakes there:
a) 4GB is really limit of 32bit operating systems. PAE requires the applications to support it => almost none do.
b) Supporting another system takes more money than upgrading them to the same one. Long term.
@OndaTer, first of all, I'm sensboston (Boston - it's a city on the East cost of US)
Second, read this: http://www.unawave.de/windows-7-tipps/32-bit-ram-barrier.html?lang=EN You may google for more if you want...
Third, what do you mean by "another system"? What "another" system? WP8 devices will have same CPU (arm) as current handsets; of course, adding support of current handsets should cost some money! But loosing the trust (finally) is much more expensive, you'll see it by the end of this month (even week). Just mark today's MS stock price...
Sorry, I always read it that way
a) Yes, it is called PAE, which is exactly what I wrote. Read it again! It is NOT possible to address >4GB with 32bit addresses. PAE uses 36bit addressing, but the application HAS to be compiled to be able to support the extra space!
b) "It is more money consuming (long term) to work on 7.8 line and 8.0+ line."
// I mean - application itself has only 4GB virtual space. Yes, the rest of the system can move the base of each application and thus use >4GB RAM. But note that also drivers must support it and that's why it is usually targetted at servers and it is disabled on desktops!
// ah I see what you mean - I thought that they removed it after SP2 or SP3 of XP (the issues with driver compatibility with PAE enabled).
sensboston said:
Chris, you are optimistic guy (and it's OK!) but I believe we do have more points for pessimism now...
What's happened - it's not a hardware-related but just marketing (read - stupid marketing!) issue. Microsoft is copying Apple's strategy now (probably they planned to sell own MS handsets) but without Steve Jobs magic it's hopeless...
MS public persons explanations - it's a bull****, don't trust 'em! It's like a "4 GB limitation of x86 OS'es" (what is an outrageous lie). I'm 99% sure it's happened because of two reasons:
- they want to "save" (he-he) some money for dropping old handsets support ;
- but the primary reason (I think so): they want to sell their own handsets
Also, unsuccessful WP7 marketing campaign during last two years should open our eyes...
I'd like to be optimistic but...
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Click to collapse
Well, we don't really have a choice here. I cannot return my phone and I have to live with it until 2013. At the moment we should wait what Microsoft announces about the 7.8 update. The Nokia Conversations Post mentioned multiple changes in the Windows Phone 7.8 update. They also reassured that they will stay committed to delivering updates. And it's not like that our phones will suddenly stop to work. Everything will be as integrated as before.
ChrisKringel said:
Well, we don't really have a choice here. I cannot return my phone and I have to live with it until 2013. At the moment we should wait what Microsoft announces about the 7.8 update. The Nokia Conversations Post mentioned multiple changes in the Windows Phone 7.8 update. They also reassured that they will stay committed to delivering updates. And it's not like that our phones will suddenly stop to work. Everything will be as integrated as before.
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THIS!
Im a little annoyed that my titan wont get the full WP8 update but im sure it will still get some new features! they've only shown WP8 once so far at a dev summit and people are saying they are going to sell there phones its mad! also i dont get people complaining that there first gen phones are getting WP8! they will be 2 years old!!! You are getting a update like apple would basically so stop complaining! If you were on android you would be out in the cold with a two year old handset most likely
WP 7.5 lacks a lot of features and we're going to be left out just like that.
This is just great. It's been like 6 months since I bought my phone and it's already outdated. Thank you MS. My phone is now nothing but a brick!
luizmeme said:
WP 7.5 lacks a lot of features and we're going to be left out just like that.
This is just great. It's been like 6 months since I bought my phone and it's already outdated. Thank you MS. My phone is now nothing but a brick!
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ok your getting a WP7.8 update arent you? you dont know what thats going to contain yet! also by the time this comes out your phone will actually be 12 months old almost and oh yes last time i checked the phone isnt suddenly going to stop working is it!
Isnt it simple to call Verizon or whatever to cancel the contract and get a refund? Just asking, It just seems that after the announcement, Every single WP user went ALL RAGE!!!! But, hasnt anyone thought of contacting the carrier instead?
OptimusLove said:
Isnt it simple to call Verizon or whatever to cancel the contract and get a refund? Just asking, It just seems that after the announcement, Every single WP user went ALL RAGE!!!! But, hasnt anyone thought of contacting the carrier instead?
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Doesn't breach any contract by the carriers, hardware manufacturers or software vendors. Don't see why would Verizon, HTC/Nokia or MSFT is liable for any refund.
OptimusLove said:
Isnt it simple to call Verizon or whatever to cancel the contract and get a refund? Just asking, It just seems that after the announcement, Every single WP user went ALL RAGE!!!! But, hasnt anyone thought of contacting the carrier instead?
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How exactly are the carriers responsible that they should nullify the contract? It's been no secret that there was an extreme likelihood that current WP7 phones would not get the Apollo upgrade. There was nothing official. Prudence would dictate that you wait for an official statement or wait until something is actually released before committing to a 2 year contract. Some people just didn't want to wait and now feel "entitled" to something they never deserved. Gonna be dumb, ya gotta be tough.
fatclue said:
How exactly are the carriers responsible that they should nullify the contract? It's been no secret that there was an extreme likelihood that current WP7 phones would not get the Apollo upgrade. There was nothing official. Prudence would dictate that you wait for an official statement or wait until something is actually released before committing to a 2 year contract. Some people just didn't want to wait and now feel "entitled" to something they never deserved. Gonna be dumb, ya gotta be tough.
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Its the user that will request to nullify so that, they(the user) can sell the phone, save the money to buy a new one.
OptimusLove said:
Its the user that will request to nullify so that, they(the user) can sell the phone, save the money to buy a new one.
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I know it's the user who wants to cancel. What I meant was why would the carrier agree to nullify? Buyer's remorse? Sorry, make an informed purchase like the rest of us or pay the unsubsidized price if you want to swap devices on a whim.
Let us start a petition to end all the petitions.
nicksti said:
Let us start a petition to end all the petitions.
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Count me in!
nicksti said:
Let us start a petition to end all the petitions.
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Agreed, I bet those petitioners dont know their carriers phone numbers.
nicksti said:
Let us start a petition to end all the petitions.
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Agreed. Not to sound mean or insensitive, but man am I sick and tired of all the whiny, prissy, entitled little asshats stamping around like a deranged toddler who's parent says no to the damned coco puffs.
I bought my Samsung Focus almost 2 years ago, and in that time MS has given me numerous updates for free, ALL of which have not just added features but actually IMPROVED the performance of the device and reduced the memory footprint. We already know Tango will do the same, and it's a safe bet that the new Start screen won't dramatically impact memory usage.
Contrast that with my Apple experience, where for 2 years every new version of iOS became more bloated and made my phone run slower and slower, each and EVERY time claiming the new OS version number as newer devices, yet NEVER giving me all the features of those devices, and ultimately ruining--yes, RUINING--my device to the point where it was unusable due to the slowness of its bloated, hackneyed OS.
When Microsoft finishes the run of WP7 devices, each and EVERY phone that runs the OS will continue to be usable, will continue to run better than it ever has in its lifespan, and will continue to be supported by a marketplace that currently has more than 100,000 apps.
Let me be plain: there is NOTHING HERE TO WHINE ABOUT. Grow up, accept that you're never going to own a piece of technology that will be "future proof," and move forward with your life.
There is NO SUCH THING as future proof. It's a marketing lie, and if you're dumb enough to believe it that's nobody's fault but your own.
equal refidera
In the U.S., if you get a subsidized phone you could always leave before the contract expires. However, you are obligated to pay an early termination fee. Exact amount depends on how long you stayed so far. People who bought the 2nd generation Windows Phones probably started their 2 year term not too long ago and would pay a relatively high fee.
As far as the number of petitions goes, I think it shows that users are not happy seeing their relatively new device already obsolete because it cannot run any WP8 apps. It is not just the most-demanding apps or ones that demand better hardware. It is all of them.
Even if this sort of thing happens with Android or Apple, it is still a problem here because there are so many petitions/complaints. Add to this that there was a platform reset just 2 years ago with Windows Mobile and the fact that there are not too many Windows Phone users to begin with, I think this is an issue in which Microsoft has to be proactive and find a workable solution. Google and Apple can afford to piss off a few customers as their base is huge. Unfortunately, Microsoft does not have that luxury. Likewise, it does Microsoft no good if their users are complaining at the same time MS is trying to get these same people onto WP8.
Microsoft, Nokia, and whomever else should just implement some type of trade-in program where current WP7 users can get a WP8 device with a fair discount. Then if people want a WP8 device right away, they do not have to wait over a year until your contract ends. I am sure Microsoft wants tons of WP8 users immediately to attract app developers. With a trade-in, this would certainly happen. If Microsoft does nothing, people could very well stay angry and go to Android or Apple when their contract is up. Even if everybody suddenly accepts the current WP7 situation and became happy with MS, it would still take a long time (if ever) for WP8 to get reach a decent sized userbase. That is why I believe Microsoft should do something to get almost everybody using WP7 onto WP8 come this fall.
jasongw said:
Agreed. Not to sound mean or insensitive, but man am I sick and tired of all the whiny, prissy, entitled little asshats stamping around like a deranged toddler who's parent says no to the damned coco puffs.
I bought my Samsung Focus almost 2 years ago, and in that time MS has given me numerous updates for free, ALL of which have not just added features but actually IMPROVED the performance of the device and reduced the memory footprint. We already know Tango will do the same, and it's a safe bet that the new Start screen won't dramatically impact memory usage.
Contrast that with my Apple experience, where for 2 years every new version of iOS became more bloated and made my phone run slower and slower, each and EVERY time claiming the new OS version number as newer devices, yet NEVER giving me all the features of those devices, and ultimately ruining--yes, RUINING--my device to the point where it was unusable due to the slowness of its bloated, hackneyed OS.
When Microsoft finishes the run of WP7 devices, each and EVERY phone that runs the OS will continue to be usable, will continue to run better than it ever has in its lifespan, and will continue to be supported by a marketplace that currently has more than 100,000 apps.
Let me be plain: there is NOTHING HERE TO WHINE ABOUT. Grow up, accept that you're never going to own a piece of technology that will be "future proof," and move forward with your life.
There is NO SUCH THING as future proof. It's a marketing lie, and if you're dumb enough to believe it that's nobody's fault but your own.
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This post deserves a medal.
Sent from my SGH-I777 using xda premium
MikeyMike01 said:
This post deserves a medal.
Sent from my SGH-I777 using xda premium
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Lool.
Here's a email I sent to Microsoft's [email protected], [email protected], [email protected], [email protected]
Hi Everyone,
I'm sending this email for two reasons. First I have been a Windows Phone user since 2004 when HP released the first pocket pc phone, HP 6315. I then purchased the HP 6515 and HP 6915. I then purchased the HTC Touch P4000 windows 5.0 and then HTC Touch diamond 6.1, HTC Touch Pro 2 windows 6.5.
And when Microsoft released Windows Phone 7, I purshased HTC Surround and then just last week I purchased for my wife the new Nokia 900 and the HTC Titan2 for my self, plus my two kids have a HTC Surround and HTC HD7S.
The reason that I mentioned all these phone is to show my dedication to the windows phone platform, and just two let you know I have been a long time Windows user as well. My first Windows desktop was Windows 1.0.
I heard this week that our second generation phones won't get the Windows Phone 8 upgrade, Considering we just bought that latest phones and they will be outdated in a couple of months, I feel for the first time ripped off considering Apples Iphone 3 will upgrade to os6.
I would thing that you would want to keep your loyal customers, and for the first time I'm debating if we don't get the update to Windows Phone 8 to change phone platforms, and this really hurts considering how much I believe in Microsoft's products. THanks again I look forward to your response.
Yours Truly,
Mark Connors
MC Engineers
Microsoft Certified Systems Engineer
NSCSA Safety Certified 2012
[email protected]
Here is Peter Chou for HTC reply:
Dear Mark,
Thanks for supporting HTC products for so long and so many years. Win8 is a big step so we are not able to upgrade to win 7 devices. However we will have a win7 upgrade version which will have most of the win8 experience.
Regards.
Peter
Here's Steven Rlop for Nokia reply:
Dear Mark,
There are advances in hardware in future devices that will enable new experiences that will not be available on the existing devices. And yet, you will see some of the WP8 features on WP 7 devices, and, on the Nokia devices, there is a wide array of additional capability being provided. Just as with an older Apple product that cannot do many of the new things, we will continue to enhance what can be done.
Regards,
Stephen
Here's my reply back to everyone.
Hi Everyone,
Thanks for your quick reply. I'm a PLC programmer and software developer myself so I know how it works with hardware and software. That being said when Microsoft released Windows 7 they created Windows starter for pc's with minimum hardware specs,
So why doesn't Microsoft create Windows Phone 8 for the new devices and Windows Phone 8 light for the older devices. I realize that Windows Phone 7.8 is that lighter version but in the public's eyes they look at it as not getting the next version of Windows Phone 8. And last I think if Microsoft rolls out the lighter version and calls it Windows Phone 8 for first and second generation phones plus explain it has most of the functionalities as the new phones, the majority of Windows Phone users would understand. Thanks again for your response.
Mark Connors
MC Engineers
Microsoft Certified Systems Engineer
NSCSA Safety Certified 2012
[email protected]
Peter Chou response was.
Mark, this is a good idea. We can look into that direction. Thanks again.
The interesting thing was the fact that Microsoft has never responded to any of my emails, so again it's like Microsoft really doesn't care about their customers.
I believe that Microsoft could have created two versions of Windows Phone 8, with support for new and old devices and if the first and second devices didn't support the particular software it wouldn't be activited in the first or second phones.
Mark Connors
MC Engineers
Microsoft Certified Systems Engineer
NSCSA Safety Certified 2012
[email protected]
I've got an idea. Let's allow the free enterprise system to do its thing. Those of you who feel "cheated" by Microsoft can go ahead and switch to another platform of your choosing. Those who switch to Android, be careful of what you wish for..... Those who switch to iOS, same goes for you too. When the dust settles and Google releases Jelly Bean, let's see how many existing handsets get the update. When OS6 comes out, let's see how slow and buggy your precious iPhone becomes. Be proactive, do what you need to do. But for God's sake do it and STFU already!
I'm sorry for my reply; I only wanted to express my concerns for the way Microsoft is dealing with the first and second generation devices. I wasn't trying to start a battle. Again I'm sorry, and your right it's hard to type and reply on a small screen without making mistakes..
mcsc said:
Apparently you missed the hole reason for the letter and if you could read between the lines and how long I have been with microsoft you would realize that I would never change platforms. That being said a a Engineer, microsoft could have released this differently. My letter was a point out that Bill, and Steve didn't even have the decently to reply.
And last if you can't reply with dignity using a acronym STFU, then you should post.
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Click to collapse
(1) I wasn't referring to you.
(2) You should be embarrassed to sport your credentials so ostentatiously when you can't go a full sentence with either a spelling or grammatical error. Literally, not one correct sentence in your post.
(3) You and I have different methods to show angst. You write letters, I use acronyms. My dignity is intact.
BTW, I have credentials too. I have responsibilities within the healthcare field that you can't possibly fathom. My state & federal licensing credentials are quite impressive as well. I just like to let my hair down on these boards.
Gotta agree with fatclue...
The grammar in that post would be an embarrassment if the audience was 4th graders, and it was directed to 4 senior executives. Maybe the author should pursue a credential in business writing.
Also, why would anyone expect a reply from Bill Gates? Isn't he off feeding kids with malaria or something? I would hope that the rest have better things to do.
Respectfully,
Rev. Dr. Thaddeus James O'Pootertoot III, MD, JD, CPA, Ph.D, MBCP, MCA, MCAD, MCAS, MCDBA, MCDST, MCITP, MCLC, MCM, MCNE, MCP, MCP+I, MCP+SB, MCP+SB, MCPD, MCSA, MCSD, MCSD, MCSE, MCSE+I, MCT, MCTS, MCTs, MOS, MOUS, and all-around nice guy
:good::good::good::good::good:
@mcsc: I see your mistake: you think that because the iPhone 3GS will receive "iOS6" that means it'll be receiving the same OS as the later iPhones. I get the mistake--I made it myself, once.
But the fact is this: iPhone 3GS will NOT be receiving the same OS as later models. It'll show the same VERSION number--merely a string of text--but in no sense can it be called "the same OS." Instead, it contains a subset of what the newer version of the OS (which, let's face it, is itself a minor iteration of a stale OS) will have on newer devices, and if you want to get the full set of features, you WILL have to buy the iPhone 5, make no mistake. Even 4S will lack some of the features that iOS 6 will deliver to iPhone 5.
Essentially, Microsoft and Apple do the same thing, but with a clear distinction: Apple tells a lie-"look! We're giving you the latest OS!", and Microsoft tells the truth--"Sorry, your device won't support the new OS, but we'll make sure you get a few of its features."
The question is: do you prefer a pretty lie or a less pretty truth?
Your so right, I didn't look at it this way. I am quite happy with my phone and getting the windows phone 7.8 update, I just thought that microsoft should have released it as windows phone 8 for everyone, minas the enhancements that the first and second generation devices didn't support.
Forget about the 3GS, how old is it, really?
iPhone 4 and iPhone 4S, one year apart. The only thing the 4 didn't receive when the 4S came out was Siri, one exclusive feature for new model. If you want to look at the 3GS, it lacked facetime, one feature announced with the iPhone 4.
Here MS and Nokia have, what? Soon to be 6 months old L900 before a major update. What'll it receive? only one new visual feature while the functional rest is left out vs. "hey we are saving one new feature for our new model." Don't quote me where I got WP 7.8 only has the startscreen, if you want to believe WP and Nokia it's on you, not me, I'm done believing. What's more? the 3GS, while being 3 years old (released June 2009), is not considered a beta device and it served well, it still retains some value. Lumia 900? From $99 to free in 2 months (I don't count the $100 credits post launch), much like a feature phone. Plus, the thing is hyped this and that despite the OS isn't fully matured at this point of the competition, while iOS and Android can out-function WP any way. If not for loyalty and hope, who have been buying WP up until 6/20? After this treatment, I know many will be very skeptical about buying WP8. I myself will wait until WP8 truly establishes itself as a complete OS before buying. Can you confidently recommend WP? I know I no longer can't.
And before someone tells me to go buy an iOS or Android, think again. Is there anyone to tell people to "go buy a WP"? MS and Nokia, i am sure, don't want their consumer base to tell others to buy products from their primary competitors. iOS and Android don't care, because no one says go buy a WP. People would just be like, "what's that?," anyway. If WP users think the other consumers are missing out goodies in WP, then MS and Nokia are missing out their market share.
jasongw said:
@mcsc: I see your mistake: you think that because the iPhone 3GS will receive "iOS6" that means it'll be receiving the same OS as the later iPhones. I get the mistake--I made it myself, once.
But the fact is this: iPhone 3GS will NOT be receiving the same OS as later models. It'll show the same VERSION number--merely a string of text--but in no sense can it be called "the same OS." Instead, it contains a subset of what the newer version of the OS (which, let's face it, is itself a minor iteration of a stale OS) will have on newer devices, and if you want to get the full set of features, you WILL have to buy the iPhone 5, make no mistake. Even 4S will lack some of the features that iOS 6 will deliver to iPhone 5.
Essentially, Microsoft and Apple do the same thing, but with a clear distinction: Apple tells a lie-"look! We're giving you the latest OS!", and Microsoft tells the truth--"Sorry, your device won't support the new OS, but we'll make sure you get a few of its features."
The question is: do you prefer a pretty lie or a less pretty truth?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I am an Engineer and not a programmer so feel free to correct me if I am wrong.
As you all know, the WP8 sdk leaked and features started popping up on the Web.
I am surprised that many of these features are very simple basic and I am not understanding why they can't be offered to Wp7 in the 7.8 update. I am talking about the sms backup, screen shot capabilities, multiple selection of photos, etc...
I understand that WP8 is based on a different OS architecture but these feature are nowhere so great and demanding in terms of code and hardware usage. WP8 apps may not be compatible because of the programming language, but these features shouldn't fall in the same category.
What do you guys think?
Agreed!
Sent from my Lumia 900 using XDA Windows Phone 7 App
How many people from Microsoft have to say that more than just the start screen is coming before people get the idea that more stuff is coming?
exiva said:
How many people from Microsoft have to say that more than just the start screen is coming before people get the idea that more stuff is coming?
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Agreed. The reports I read said that the new start screen was the only thing they were going to discuss at this time. More stuff is bound to be discussed as we get closer to the 7.8 release date.
Sent from my Lumia 900 using Board Express
I think the fact that we're seeing a bit of stuff that's not hardware dependent is a good indicator of what will most likely come over in 7.8
All of the WP8 features I've seen leaked from the SDK are very basic and nothing groundbreaking....its more or less just catching up with the features already in iOS/Android. All these features can run on 1st Gen hardware (except for the obvious ones..i.e. NFC). Only reason they wouldn't include these in 7.8 is a lack of interest in supporting older devices
Sent from my Lumia 900 using Board Express
All the WP8 features, other than multi-core support, can be ported over to WinCE/WP7 with some work. It is always a business decision, not that technological deficiency. If MS wants to continue supporting WP7/WinCE eco-system, it needs to devote significant amount of resources to do so. Given that this old eco-system (WinCE has been > 10 years of lifespan) isn't catch up with consumers at all (a lot of the features lack in WP7 actually existed in old Windows Mobile), it is kind of waste of investment in MS' point of view. On the other hand, the new WP8 core, based largely on Win8, is a new start. What you see so far is just a begining. There will be much more features and capabilities come to WP8 than you can ever imagined for WP7. If all goes out well, this new OS will be far superior than anything Android or iOS can ever be.
They're releasing a new OS that can only be run on new hardware, this happens in the computer world all of the time... And smartphones are basically just pocket sized computers... How come this question isn't posed every time a new computer OS is no longer supported on old hardware? It's illogical to complain about it when it happens on Windows Phones but be fine with it when it happens on Windows computers.
Things change, they're giving us better hardware and a better operating system. They're doing this because people like us gave them the incentive to expand the Windows Phone platform... We are getting what we wanted, Microsoft is showing no signs of abandoning Windows Phones, they're doing the opposite. Why exactly does any Windows Phone supporter have a problem with that?
xuninc said:
They're releasing a new OS that can only be run on new hardware, this happens in the computer world all of the time... And smartphones are basically just pocket sized computers... How come this question isn't posed every time a new computer OS is no longer supported on old hardware? It's illogical to complain about it when it happens on Windows Phones but be fine with it when it happens on Windows computers.
Things change, they're giving us better hardware and a better operating system. They're doing this because people like us gave them the incentive to expand the Windows Phone platform... We are getting what we wanted, Microsoft is showing no signs of abandoning Windows Phones, they're doing the opposite. Why exactly does any Windows Phone supporter have a problem with that?
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Why complain?....because the 1 gen hardware can handle the basic features that have been presented thus far. You don't need dual-cores to run the same applications just with more customizable options. That's why in my previous post I stated there's no reason these basic additions shouldn't be in WP 7.8, unless there is a lack of interest in supporting older gens
If you compare it to PCs, Windows 7 can support very old hardware...by old I mean 6-8 years old. That is a reasonable span of time to ask someone to upgrade their hardware
Sent from my Lumia 900 using Board Express
chrisz5z said:
Why complain?....because the 1 gen hardware can handle the basic features that have been presented thus far. You don't need dual-cores to run the same applications just with more customizable options. That's why in my previous post I stated there's no reason these basic additions shouldn't be in WP 7.8, unless there is a lack of interest in supporting older gens
If you compare it to PCs, Windows 7 can support very old hardware...by old I mean 6-8 years old. That is a reasonable span of time to ask someone to upgrade their hardware
Sent from my Lumia 900 using Board Express
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What have you read that no one else has? MS has not, (again, has not) said this stuff was only for WP8. As you just mentioned, much of this stuff can run on the first gen products. But nowhere has anyone said, with any evidence, that these features are guaranteed to not show up on 7.8.
Ans before you continue to complain about things that are neither confirmed or denied, remember that MS is not the only company that does this. Apple is notorious for doing this. Example; Why can't I upgrade my 2007 Mac Book Pro to Mtn Lion? It uses the same processor fabrication process and features almost the same technology as the 2010 models, yet mine can not have Mtn Lion. It gets even more annoying when you consider the difference between Lion and Mtn Lion is very small.
The_Vermonster said:
What have you read that no one else has? MS has not, (again, has not) said this stuff was only for WP8. As you just mentioned, much of this stuff can run on the first gen products. But nowhere has anyone said, with any evidence, that these features are guaranteed to not show up on 7.8.
Ans before you continue to complain about things that are neither confirmed or denied, remember that MS is not the only company that does this. Apple is notorious for doing this. Example; Why can't I upgrade my 2007 Mac Book Pro to Mtn Lion? It uses the same processor fabrication process and features almost the same technology as the 2010 models, yet mine can not have Mtn Lion. It gets even more annoying when you consider the difference between Lion and Mtn Lion is very small.
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guys all those complaints are base less until microsoft come out and publicly say what we will have and dont have on the first gen devices..
for sure no multicore support, no NFC, no high res screen support...
The_Vermonster said:
Ans before you continue to complain about things that are neither confirmed or denied, remember that MS is not the only company that does this. Apple is notorious for doing this. Example; Why can't I upgrade my 2007 Mac Book Pro to Mtn Lion? It uses the same processor fabrication process and features almost the same technology as the 2010 models, yet mine can not have Mtn Lion. It gets even more annoying when you consider the difference between Lion and Mtn Lion is very small.
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This should be an incentive for Microsoft to beat the competition and offer similar support to their pc lineup. I hate how things are always compared to apple with Apple being taken as the God example.
If apple is terrible in this domain, this doesn't mean that other companies should take it as a habit and get away with it.
I don't think Apple is a great company. I've had my ups and downs with them. They just happen to be a really good example of "built in obsolescence."
I honestly don't think there is one person that can actually say they bought their WP7/7.5 phone based off of WP8 features. The WP8 v.s. WP7.8 changes nothing about how awesome you thought this phone was the first day you had it.
The_Vermonster said:
I don't think Apple is a great company. I've had my ups and downs with them. They just happen to be a really good example of "built in obsolescence."
I honestly don't think there is one person that can actually say they bought their WP7/7.5 phone based off of WP8 features. The WP8 v.s. WP7.8 changes nothing about how awesome you thought this phone was the first day you had it.
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Oh I am not complaining at all. The phone is awesomely amazing. It's just that some of the new features are too basic and still catching up to the competition that I think should come to 7.8.
If MS planned on doing that, they would've created some hype about it.
The_Vermonster said:
What have you read that no one else has? MS has not, (again, has not) said this stuff was only for WP8. As you just mentioned, much of this stuff can run on the first gen products. But nowhere has anyone said, with any evidence, that these features are guaranteed to not show up on 7.8.
Ans before you continue to complain about things that are neither confirmed or denied, remember that MS is not the only company that does this. Apple is notorious for doing this. Example; Why can't I upgrade my 2007 Mac Book Pro to Mtn Lion? It uses the same processor fabrication process and features almost the same technology as the 2010 models, yet mine can not have Mtn Lion. It gets even more annoying when you consider the difference between Lion and Mtn Lion is very small.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Never said anyone publicly released statements saying the features will be in 7.8, I said there's no reason why the hardware can't handle it.
And according to Apple: http://www.apple.com/osx/specs/ , your 2007 Macbook pro is compatible with Mountain Lion.
Sent from my Lumia 900 using Board Express
chrisz5z said:
And according to Apple: http://www.apple.com/osx/specs/ , your 2007 Macbook pro is compatible with Mountain Lion.
Sent from my Lumia 900 using Board Express
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My MBP counts as "early" because it was a few weeks before they made the upgrade. I got almost $500 off of the retail price so I'm not too sad about it, just confused.
Off topic: Running Mountain Lion on my 2007 MBP, breathed new life into this thing. Runs so much faster. (I did a clean format, not upgrade.)
The_Vermonster said:
My MBP counts as "early" because it was a few weeks before they made the upgrade. I got almost $500 off of the retail price so I'm not too sad about it, just confused.
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Only difference i see with yours and the Mid/Late 2007 Macbook Pros is the GPU is slower. My guess would be to cut costs by dropping support for older hardware. But either way 5 years is an OK life span to be supported, not great by any means though. And i agree with you, Mountain Lion really isn't much of an upgrade over Lion so it does seem stupid to drop it. I have a early 08' White Macbook so mine is dropped also. I have Lion on it at the moment but honestly Snow Leopard ran smoother, probably due to the crappy Intel X3100 GPU lol
That's probably it. Stupid GPU.
But the thing is, I really don't see MS doing that to customers. AFAIK 7.8 is coming out shortly after 8, so it is very possible that MS wants to see what features people use most so they can focus on bringing those to 7.8. I just have a feeling MS is more in tune with their users than Apple is, but that isn't saying much.
The_Vermonster said:
That's probably it. Stupid GPU.
But the thing is, I really don't see MS doing that to customers. AFAIK 7.8 is coming out shortly after 8, so it is very possible that MS wants to see what features people use most so they can focus on bringing those to 7.8. I just have a feeling MS is more in tune with their users than Apple is, but that isn't saying much.
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Yea it will be nice if they include many of the added basic functionality to 7.8 that ive seen leaked from the WP8 SDK. I've seen lots of people commenting on different tech sites stating that MS would be wasting money/time supporting their older phone OS/Hardware, and to move ahead with the new OS.
I don't see it as wasting money, i see it as investing in customer satisfaction. If you keep the customers, that have invested in your platform, happy by showing you will support them....i promise you most of them will return to buy your new platform