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Hello all,
I have to say I love this site. I am a daily visitor and, although I am new, have learned much about ROMs. I do have a moan though. I'm currently running Shed's Gingerbread for the Eris and have located what I think is a bug. Unfortunately, I'm not allowed to notify him or ask others for for info in that specific forum because I dont have 10 posts yet. I'm tempted to just post random messages to make it to the limit but dont want to clutter the board with messages that mean nothing. It would be nice if that feature was removed so myself, and others like me, can contribute to the development of the ROM.
doc
dochill4u said:
Hello all,
I have to say I love this site. I am a daily visitor and, although I am new, have learned much about ROMs. I do have a moan though. I'm currently running Shed's Gingerbread for the Eris and have located what I think is a bug. Unfortunately, I'm not allowed to notify him or ask others for for info in that specific forum because I dont have 10 posts yet. I'm tempted to just post random messages to make it to the limit but dont want to clutter the board with messages that mean nothing. It would be nice if that feature was removed so myself, and others like me, can contribute to the development of the ROM.
doc
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Hi,
Please don't go posting "junk" posts about, as they will just get deleted and you'll get a warning from someone. You'll be at ten posts in no time, and if you take a visit to off-topic, there is plenty of interesting discussion to suit all interests
Regarding the "bug", you should perhaps make a thread in the general/Q&A forum for your device, and give the details there.
The reason for this is because without the restriction, we see all manner of new threads made in development forums with little or no purpose, and this does a very good job of keeping everything much easier to find
Hi,
I'm concerned too...don't really get the point of 10 posts policy ...don't think that 10 posts will make me a developer
...not much more than now...
Do you think that force people to chitchat on other threads when they want to talk about dev is really constructive?
I wanna share my usage impressions on custom rom so If you want consider this as my first silly step to the 10...
Ste
Sent from my HTC Wildfire using XDA App
I do understand that you dont want people to post random messages everywhere and I'm definately not going to post random messages. Don't want anyone mad at me!
Guess I'll get cracking on my 10. 2 down 8 to go!
cookd2 said:
Hi,
I'm concerned too...don't really get the point of 10 posts policy ...don't think that 10 posts will make me a developer
...not much more than now...
Do you think that force people to chitchat on other threads when they want to talk about dev is really constructive?
I wanna share my usage impressions on custom rom so If you want consider this as my first silly step to the 10...
Ste
Sent from my HTC Wildfire using XDA App
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
There's an extensive thread discussing the reasoning for this.
After 10 posts, you should understand the rules on XDA, and how they apply.
If you have to "earn" the privilege to post in dev, then you have likely looked for why you need to do it, and stumbled upon the rules.
Dev forums are for development and dev related discussion. Not for support or queries. They go in general or Q&A.
The vast majority of "useless" posts like "when will it be released" are made by users with < 10 posts, so there is an obvious correlation between postcount and quality of posts. If people take a look around and read the rules and other threads, they'll see how things work, and be ready to get stuck in and not annoy people
pulser_g2 said:
There's an extensive thread discussing the reasoning for this.
After 10 posts, you should understand the rules on XDA, and how they apply.
If you have to "earn" the privilege to post in dev, then you have likely looked for why you need to do it, and stumbled upon the rules.
Dev forums are for development and dev related discussion. Not for support or queries. They go in general or Q&A.
The vast majority of "useless" posts like "when will it be released" are made by users with < 10 posts, so there is an obvious correlation between postcount and quality of posts. If people take a look around and read the rules and other threads, they'll see how things work, and be ready to get stuck in and not annoy people
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So when will it be released? Lol.
Often a single thread will wind up having many hundreds, even thousands, of posts. In most cases, one would have to be a masochist to read them all, but, unless one can come up with good search terms to find posts relevant to a particular aspect of the thread topic, one is likely to miss significant, even crucial, information.
It seems that, in many contexts, starting new threads is frowned upon here, and users are encouraged to add new topics to existing threads. An extreme example is the thread:
Barnes & Noble Nook Color > Nook Color Android Development > Development Q&A - Ask Developmental Questions Here!
Mikey starts the thread with the message:
If you have any questions that may be development related please post them in here instead of making a new thread. Hopefully others will try to answer your question to the best of your abilities. Plus it saves me from moving a few hundred threads a day
Thanks!
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To me this makes no sense. Wouldn't it be better to have a sub-forum for such questions, so that users who have a question, perhaps even one not clearly formulated in their mind, could see what questions have been posted and possibly answered already? (Parenthetically, I would like to know how to distinguish "Developmental Questions" from other technical questions.)
Also, I think a lot more use should be made of the Wiki. For example, wouldn't it be useful to have a Wiki page for each ROM or closely-related set of ROMs for each device or set of devices that said ROMs have been developed for? Couldn't any guide that will inevitable require updating in response to developments and user questions be better done as a wiki page? (I would allow for the possibility that changes in the page might require the approval of the author of the guide.)
Am I banging my head against a wall here?
There is a lot of good info in the threads. But you expect devs to keep things up to date in one location? Some of them do and do a really good job at it. But most don't. Hell 95% of the time they don't even have a description of what the benefits of buying their paid apps over the free version are in the market. They don't put forth the effort when they are trying to get you to spend money, why would they do it in the forums. [/rant]
Sorry guys, just sick of the lack of descriptions/features the market.
aarons510 said:
Often a single thread will wind up having many hundreds, even thousands, of posts. In most cases, one would have to be a masochist to read them all, but, unless one can come up with good search terms to find posts relevant to a particular aspect of the thread topic, one is likely to miss significant, even crucial, information.
It seems that, in many contexts, starting new threads is frowned upon here, and users are encouraged to add new topics to existing threads. An extreme example is the thread:
Barnes & Noble Nook Color > Nook Color Android Development > Development Q&A - Ask Developmental Questions Here!
Mikey starts the thread with the message:
To me this makes no sense. Wouldn't it be better to have a sub-forum for such questions, so that users who have a question, perhaps even one not clearly formulated in their mind, could see what questions have been posted and possibly answered already? (Parenthetically, I would like to know how to distinguish "Developmental Questions" from other technical questions.)
Also, I think a lot more use should be made of the Wiki. For example, wouldn't it be useful to have a Wiki page for each ROM or closely-related set of ROMs for each device or set of devices that said ROMs have been developed for? Couldn't any guide that will inevitable require updating in response to developments and user questions be better done as a wiki page? (I would allow for the possibility that changes in the page might require the approval of the author of the guide.)
Am I banging my head against a wall here?
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Once a Device forum reaches a certain amount of posts, a new sub-section for "Q&A" gets added to the device forum. In the meantime, we use a specific thread for questions regarding development. This makes it easier for devs to read through there threads and pull out issues and come up with better products. You as a user are assumed to have the basic knowledge to search for your answer before posting questions. If you still can not come up with an answer, then by all means, post your question in the "General" sub-forum.
Also, can you tell me what being a masochist has to do with anything?
I'll start off by stating something obvious: Xda is primarily a developers forum, and the main focus is on devs and their valued work...
With that being said, Xda will always continue to attract new users, looking for a quick fix...(thanks to its already existing userbase)...
This doesn't look like stopping anytime soon, unless Xda becomes invite-only...
On to my suggestion:
One of the widespread problem around with new users is that they don't follow the rules...
They post the wrong questions in the wrong places, don't search, hardly provide proper information even if someone wanted to help...and if someone points out the rules, they get flamed, sometimes even abused...and all the users involved may end up with a ban/infraction...
As the regulars may know, the list just goes on...
SO, rather than DISCOURAGING new users from breaking forum rules, why don't we ENCOURAGE them to follow the same...?
So my suggestion, why don't we identify and HIGHLIGHT new users who actually follow the rules, atleast with regards to providing adequate information (like logcats and stuff)?
Maybe create a new section in the Xda Portal, where such users and their threads get featured (once or twice a week), for the simple fact that they exhibit ideal newbie behaviour...
Kind of like, leading people with examples from within their midsts...{something like *recognizing* new members (and members and maybe senior members as well)}
Why the Portal? Because whatever comes on the portal, grabs more eyeballs...
And if the expected way to present problems gets featured often on the Portal, new and old users alike may take note...
They may try and be on their best henceforth, simply because they may want to get featured...
So I leave this idea open for discussion...if people like this idea, I'll try and bring this to the attention of the admins (if they havn't already seen it) and work out the details, and see if it gets implemented...
P.s. *constructive* criticizm and opinion is appreciated on ^this...
Edit: Do not use this thread for getting your 10posts! I will complain to mods, and get your posts deleted with your post count being reset...
Unless you actually have something worthwhile to contribute...
And please stay on topic, this thread isn't to argue on the 10 post limit! That rule/limit shall stay there, irrespective of whether you like it or not...
I like it. Turn something negative into something positive and all that.
But still i feel it's...err...lacking in some ways. Although i can't put my finger in it.
Sent from my rooted tomato using xda app
I keep finding myself coming back to this thread but my thoughts about it are constantly changing.
At first, I simply thought that it was a great idea. I thought that because, as you say, if new members could see other new members being "rewarded" then it could entice them to act the same, in the hopes they would also be featured.
Then thinking not such a great idea because members could simply stick to those particular guidelines (whatever they would be) just to get featured and have their 15 minutes of fame, so to speak.
I've been flitting between those two thoughts more than any others in my mind. Whereas now, I'm pretty much stuck between both because even though I do think it's a great idea, the possible downside could be that members abuse the systematics of it.
All I can truly say at the moment is that even though it's a good idea, it needs to have more of a plan as to what would qualify them being featured and to how it would work.
Now obviously I know that this is only the early stages of an idea, but with a combined effort of people helping to plan this out, it could potentially work out brilliantly.
By the way, if I think of any ideas myself, I'll chuck them in here and see what you think of them.
Sent from my GT-I9100 using xda premium
There should be some hard bound rule. One major setback in my opinion is that the "10 post rule", which encouragez them to spam thread everywhere.
This should be somehow modified.
Press Thanks on getting Helped by me
Users who don't make attempts at constructive posts aimed at helping others are creating spam. The rule does not.
I agree that the rule should be modified. I wish that the limit would be higher, like 50 posts. This way the '10-posters' will realize that they cannot possibly spam their way to be able to just hit the limit to post "Thanks for a great ROM", so they won't try, or if they do they will simply find their posts deleted so that they can try, try again.
This is not meant to be mean or cruel, but I would hope that XDA could keep more to its roots as a development site by changing it this way.
Only people who actively participate over a period of time and have proven themselves to be community members will be able to post constructively in a development thread. I believe this should also be applied retroactively, no grandfathering people in this time. If people have been 'members' for all this time instead of 'community members', then that means they haven't been participating or helping by sharing their knowledge with others, so why should they get to cut to the front of the line?
There are a lot of people who monitor the General and Q&A forums waiting for questions, trying to earn thanks and get new thread ideas and to climb the XDA ladder. If 'members' would use those forums as they were intended instead of trying to make the development threads into support threads, I believe they would find a much more welcoming community awaiting them.
I definitely agree with the concept a.cid is trying to do, but cascobel and Kid Carter feel as I do.
mf2112 said:
Users who don't make attempts at constructive posts aimed at helping others are creating spam. The rule does not.
I agree that the rule should be modified. I wish that the limit would be higher, like 50 posts. This way the '10-posters' will realize that they cannot possibly spam their way to be able to just hit the limit to post "Thanks for a great ROM", so they won't try, or if they do they will simply find their posts deleted so that they can try, try again.
This is not meant to be mean or cruel, but I would hope that XDA could keep more to its roots as a development site by changing it this way.
Only people who actively participate over a period of time and have proven themselves to be community members will be able to post constructively in a development thread. I believe this should also be applied retroactively, no grandfathering people in this time. If people have been 'members' for all this time instead of 'community members', then that means they haven't been participating or helping by sharing their knowledge with others, so why should they get to cut to the front of the line?
There are a lot of people who monitor the General and Q&A forums waiting for questions, trying to earn thanks and get new thread ideas and to climb the XDA ladder. If 'members' would use those forums as they were intended instead of trying to make the development threads into support threads, I believe they would find a much more welcoming community awaiting them.
I definitely agree with the concept a.cid is trying to do, but cascobel and Kid Carter feel as I do.
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Yeah you have come up with a good concept of 50 posts.
+1 for that
Press Thanks on getting Helped by me
There won't be any guidelines as such, but instead, we can have a group of members on the lookout for such posts...only they shall posess the vague guidelines...no need for it to become public in that sense...just like how it is for the articles appearing in the portal...
The news writers have guidelines, but these aren't public...but if you'll notice closely, they follow a quite vague trend...
And regarding raising the post limit to 50, I feel that it would drive out potential devs...sure they would find it easy to hang around and participate before they can post in dev section, but most devs have ego's...some may find it insulting that they have to "prove their worth"...
I believe that if we can hammer out all the weaknesses, than this idea can surely blossom into something useful...
a.cid said:
There won't be any guidelines as such, but instead, we can have a group of members on the lookout for such posts...only they shall posess the vague guidelines...no need for it to become public in that sense...just like how it is for the articles appearing in the portal...
The news writers have guidelines, but these aren't public...but if you'll notice closely, they follow a quite vague trend...
And regarding raising the post limit to 50, I feel that it would drive out potential devs...sure they would find it easy to hang around and participate before they can post in dev section, but most devs have ego's...some may find it insulting that they have to "prove their worth"...
I believe that if we can hammer out all the weaknesses, than this idea can surely blossom into something useful...
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Click to collapse
Hopefully one of the news writers might chime in here at some point and offer some advice or tips since I do like the idea.
That is a good point, perhaps 30 would be a good number since that is when they go from Junior Member to Member. It is still high enough that they can't really spam to get there without being noticed. I guess if the new member is a really good dev, they could always contact one of the mods and work something out as it mentions in the Postcount limit in developmental fora thread.
mf2112 said:
Hopefully one of the news writers might chime in here at some point and offer some advice or tips since I do like the idea.
That is a good point, perhaps 30 would be a good number since that is when they go from Junior Member to Member. It is still high enough that they can't really spam to get there without being noticed. I guess if the new member is a really good dev, they could always contact one of the mods and work something out as it mentions in the Postcount limit in developmental fora thread.
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I was leaning towards more posts actually. I was thinking about 100 posts, i think that's when they become a senior member. That way they would truly appreciate being able to post in the dev thread and they would probably know better than to post "HEy thanks for the ROm!!1." Usually roms have a discussion thread in the general forum (at least for my device) and they should be encouraged to post there.
I dont know if that's too harsh, but I'm just tired of seeing people with 11 posts posting useless posts in the dev sections.
Avilove.Cullen said:
There should be some hard bound rule. One major setback in my opinion is that the "10 post rule", which encouragez them to spam thread everywhere.
This should be somehow modified.
Press Thanks on getting Helped by me
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EXACTLY This forum is damn stupid, I have a qns to ask the devs of my rom but now? I have to get 10 post filled???!!! WTF seriously, this forum is just encouraging spam. Honestly, if you dont have a qns to ask the devs, why would you wanna create an account? Im still a ''newbie member'' and this post will prolly be scanned by a mod. Mods, I hope you change this stupid rule.
beerope said:
EXACTLY This forum is damn stupid, I have a qns to ask the devs of my rom but now? I have to get 10 post filled???!!! WTF seriously, this forum is just encouraging spam. Honestly, if you dont have a qns to ask the devs, why would you wanna create an account? Im still a ''newbie member'' and this post will prolly be scanned by a mod. Mods, I hope you change this stupid rule.
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Dev area is not for newbie questions...
Your post is what justifies the members wishes of increasing the post count limit...while I'm here lobbying to not increase it...
And the first 10 posts aren't necessarily supposed to be spam...you can contribute at a lot of places and get 10 constructive posts as easily...
Anyways, that not the point of this thread...guys, please be on-topic...
Hello,
I understand you must stop the spam on the forum, but you don't think to the "non english" users !
For me for example, it's really difficult to understand all the long text on certain answers.
I know I must have 10 posts for my counter. OK
For now, i have some answers very helpfull to say for my smartphone (and a official rom to share (chineese N9000)).
But, before making my helpfull posts, I must make 10 reply to any "free forum" and it's seem to me so unnecessary...
So, you are the master and I am the slave... And I would like to share my knowledge... I must have 10 posts before...
thank you
patyan38
Was not able to resist posting in this thread.
So hey, even though I'm an old time lurker in here I started posting just recently and consider myself being a new member on this forums.
To be more specific about the lurking; I rooted about 20 different device models for friends, family and myself over years just using this forums as a guide. So thanks a lot to all the people who made all the custom ROMs and guides!
The reason why I post in here, is because in my opinion no clever forum/reward system on earth can defeat human laziness and stupidity.
You just can't do anything about it. Period.
How do I come to this conclusion? I'll explain!
The problem with ignorant new users is not an xda related problem, it's everywhere.
I come from a very technical field; VFX and 3D graphics and count myself in as a long time (5-10 years) and active user on lots and lots of forums about CGI, VFX, 3D, cinematography, video encoding, computer hardware and overclocking etc. etc.
Before I got my 24/7 job I was moderator on various smaller forums as well.
Now, one would expect that on a forum where people talk about 3D software which costs 5K$ onwards and is mainly used by professionals there shouldn't be too many new people asking stupid questions close to absurdity. Of cause there are, and they will gladly ask their questions which are all answered in stickied FAQs just one millimeter above their useless thread! Again and again and again...
The more specific the niche the forum is about, the less lazy and uneducated members.
(For example doom9 forums about x264 encoding)
More mainstream leads to more 1 time posters trying to get their question answered without even thinking of using a search function.
This is my experience on different forums and I guess mobile phones are mainstream.
What I'm trying to say in this lengthy post is that a new user who is willing to be a part of a community, will follow rules and not behave like a total **** out of free will, regardless, if there are any fancy reward systems or anything else on the forums.
Someone who just wants to ask one question and go will give a flying damn about noob friendly portals, encouragement and whatnot.
Same as he will give a damn about anyone's carefully written FAQ.
It's the internet.
I really gave that a lot of thought myself and I don't know why it is like this.
Maybe it's the society teaching people to get maximum gain with no effort if possible.
Maybe it's:
"Dyslexia is a brain-based type of learning disability that specifically impairs a person's ability to read. These individuals typically read at levels significantly lower than expected despite having normal intelligence."
beerope said:
EXACTLY This forum is damn stupid, I have a qns to ask the devs of my rom but now? I have to get 10 post filled???!!! WTF seriously, this forum is just encouraging spam. Honestly, if you dont have a qns to ask the devs, why would you wanna create an account? Im still a ''newbie member'' and this post will prolly be scanned by a mod. Mods, I hope you change this stupid rule.
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Click to collapse
Ask questions in Q&A or general. Development is not for asking questions by users.
The rule is not stupid, and it will not change.
Was not able to resist posting in this thread.<br />
<br />
So hey, even though I'm an old time lurker in here I started posting just recently and consider myself being a new member on this forums.<br />
To be more specific about the lurking; I rooted about 20 different device models for friends, family and myself over years just using this forums as a guide. So thanks a lot to all the people who made all the custom ROMs and guides!<br />
<br />
The reason why I post in here, is because in my opinion no clever forum/reward system on earth can defeat human laziness and stupidity.<br />
You just can't do anything about it. Period.<br />
How do I come to this conclusion? I'll explain!<br />
<br />
The problem with ignorant new users is not an xda related problem, it's everywhere.<br />
I come from a very technical field; VFX and 3D graphics and count myself in as a long time (5-10 years) and active user on lots and lots of forums about CGI, VFX, 3D, cinematography, video encoding, computer hardware and overclocking etc. etc.<br />
Before I got my 24/7 job I was moderator on various smaller forums as well.<br />
<br />
Now, one would expect that on a forum where people talk about 3D software which costs 5K$ onwards and is mainly used by professionals there shouldn't be too many new people asking stupid questions close to absurdity. Of cause there are, and they will gladly ask their questions which are all answered in stickied FAQs just one millimeter above their useless thread! Again and again and again...<br />
<br />
The more specific the niche the forum is about, the less lazy and uneducated members. <br />
(For example doom9 forums about x264 encoding)<br />
More mainstream leads to more 1 time posters trying to get their question answered without even thinking of using a search function.<br />
This is my experience on different forums and I guess mobile phones are mainstream.<br />
<br />
What I'm trying to say in this lengthy post is that a new user who is willing to be a part of a community, will follow rules and not behave like a total **** out of free will, regardless, if there are any fancy reward systems or anything else on the forums.<br />
<br />
Someone who just wants to ask one question and go will give a flying damn about noob friendly portals, encouragement and whatnot.<br />
Same as he will give a damn about anyone's carefully written FAQ.<br />
<br />
It's the internet.<br />
I really gave that a lot of thought myself and I don't know why it is like this.<br />
<br />
Maybe it's the society teaching people to get maximum gain with no effort if possible.<br />
Maybe it's:<br />
<i>"Dyslexia is a brain-based type of learning disability that specifically impairs a person's ability to read. These individuals typically read at levels significantly lower than expected despite having normal intelligence."</i>
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Well, to be frank, you've hit it spot-on...I thought about it, but the only conclusion that I could have is that there is no solution to stupidity and ignorance, as you pointed out...
But atleast we could try and think of other alternatives...
As a regular here, it is really dis-heartening to see the constant barrage and batter of really dumb smartphone-owners, who have certainly no right to own a gadget which has more "brain-power" than most of them have ever possessed, cribbing about stuff that is no one else's problem yet doing nothing possible to show that they have atleast TRIED helping themselves...
I have stopped even bothering to help such people, because the flood just doesn't end..!
The only close-to-feasible solutions that has been suggested to counter that is to make xda-invite only, or raising the dev area limit high enough to deter less dedicated members to even try (though both of them don't find too much support with me)...
Surely, there must be something somewhere...maybe a magical combination of everything suggested so far...
The current system wouldn't be able to hold up much longer...
And as one of my fellow rc, kuzibri, pointed out:
You'll never miss unless you shoot
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Making XDA invite-only would sort of defeat the purpose of having such forums, most roms and works would remain "confined" to those who have been invited.
The 10 posts limit was supposed to (I think) encourage newbies to discover the different forums, ask questions, employ correct grammar (lol), but instead I see them spamming in the Off-Topic section.
There are two solutions IMO:
1. Enforce the 10 posts by limiting to General, Q&A and Apps&Themes forums, making Off-Topic, well, off-limit. Have mods specifically for newbies, erasing any post that doesn't follow the XDA guidelines.
2. Erase the 10 posts, but have a mentor. Attribute one person that during a lapse of time will "accompany" the newbie, give him advice, and if deemed "worthy", give him a green light.
-----------
"You can overclock as much as you want, your phone will always seem too slow."
I like the idea of a system that will reward good noob behaviour, how you could make a system like this work without members manipulating it would be the hard part. Also as for increasing the post count i think an increase would be welcome to most members, but trying to keep it fair also, so a compromise of 25 i think could work. One of the main problems is that the Mods are having a hard time keeping onto of the work load as it stands now (doing a great job though), so maybe in order to help maintain new members and take of some of that work load, XDA could have a new Moderator type, a Junior Moderator whos job is to monitor new members only, making sure they stick to the rules and dont spam to increase their post count, but limiting the Mod powers of these Junior Mods, so they can only remove posts of members who have a post count of 30 or less.
I would like to put forward my two cents in this topic.
HTC one x was my first smartphone and xda completely new. My first day at xda I did not knew that I cannot post in development thread untill i have 10
posts and kept posting in general session regarding development so that I can inc posts to just get pass 10post
From my above experience, I feel few ppl people come to xda for short period of time, for instant results such as rooting unlocking are one of the reasons for spam because since number of posts requirement is 10 they spam , post silly stuff because they need answers fast and cannot wait or lazy to read similar posts. So increasing no of posts requirement will inc in spam . One solution would be create a new user topic in every device thread , which contains all info regarding rooting unlock and faqs, and make this new user topic, rules mandotory for every few user to read it once(instead of 10posts ) . I know ppl are lazy still they gonna post but it will stop spam for someextent
From beast called HTC One X
abhipati said:
I would like to put forward my two cents in this topic.
HTC one x was my first smartphone and xda completely new. My first day at xda I did not knew that I cannot post in development thread untill i have 10
posts and kept posting in general session regarding development so that I can inc posts to just get pass 10post
From my above experience, I feel few ppl people come to xda for short period of time, for instant results such as rooting unlocking are one of the reasons for spam because since number of posts requirement is 10 they spam , post silly stuff because they need answers fast and cannot wait or lazy to read similar posts. So increasing no of posts requirement will inc in spam . One solution would be create a new user topic in every device thread , which contains all info regarding rooting unlock and faqs, and make this new user topic, rules mandotory for every few user to read it once(instead of 10posts ) . I know ppl are lazy still they gonna post but it will stop spam for someextent
From beast called HTC One X
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Virtually every General and/or Q&A device forum has such "new user" guides written by members and stickied to the top of the forums. Users unfortunately do not read them and thus do not post in them.
The problem is that people have the wrong idea that the dev threads are support threads. Those questions do not belong in the dev threads, so by increasing the post limit to a number much higher than 10, those users will not be able to spam their way in without being seen and having their posts deleted so hopefully they won't try to do it and will search and post questions if necessary in the General or Q&A forums.
As a new member here, I have no problem whatsoever with the 10 post limit. I actually didn't even know about it until I saw this thread.
I think the simple fact is that there are some of us that know they have no business posting in a dev thread whether allowed to or not and there are some people that have a sense of entitlement which can't be broken (me me, help me, do it for me, etc.).
I just got my first smartphone and immediately found XDA. I find myself reading thread after thread trying to soak up the vast knowledge on the site and it seems like the correct place for my questions is the FAQ thread in Q&A, not the dev thread. My post count just hit 10 but you will not find any posts from me in the dev threads until I can find something useful (actual test results from a update, information that will help them, etc) to contribute as a way of thanking the devs for their hard work.
I administrate a forum with a couple thousand users and up until now, the only solution we have had to combat the same type of problems is manually approving members 1 by 1. When users apply to the site, they are put in a guest / new user group. Our members report on each new member as they make useful contributions. At some point, an admin promotes them to the members group.
This is a very labor intensive process and most likely will not work for XDA, just wanted to share what we do.
I've noticed that several users here have been creating useless threads in the Dev section. The most frustrating part is that these users are not new here. A bunch of them have been here longer than I have, yet they don't bother reading the rules or believe they can create threads wherever they want.
I can understand a noob that have not been here for that long making this sort of mistake but when its Senior Members creating useless, non-development related threads I find it irresponsible and lacking consideration.
I believe that a sterner warning and or temporary lack of privileges will send the right message to these users. Hopefully a mod will read this and maybe consider running this by Mike Channon. Do you agree?
deeken said:
I've noticed that several users here have been creating useless threads in the Dev section. The most frustrating part is that these users are not new here. A bunch of them have been here longer than I have, yet they don't bother reading the rules or believe they can create threads wherever they want.
I can understand a noob that have not been here for that long making this sort of mistake but when its Senior Members creating useless, non-development related threads I find it irresponsible and lacking consideration.
I believe that a sterner warning and or temporary lack of privileges will send the right message to these users. Hopefully a mod will read this and maybe consider running this by Mike Channon. Do you agree?
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And this post is in the Q & A section and has no reference to a question about the Galaxy Note 2. Take your own advice!
As with every new device, it will attract new users that dont seem to follow the rules. However, we have Moderators that can clean that up. So your job is to report any thread/post that violates or does not comply with the rules so we can take care of it. Please do not start threads to bash these people and leave the moderating to us. Thank you.
Thread moved out of Q&A to General.
Hello fellow XDA-Users,
I have been a member of this forum for quite some time now, and currently spend my time in the Optimus 2X section.
People from there might recognize me from my guide on how to build cyanogenmod7 from source and some bits and pieces
from the O2X section.
Some of you might know, that LG delayed the update for this phone quite a bit, which brings me to the purpose of this
thread: The amount of spam and Off-Topic in the general section as well as the development section has blown up
insanely over the last 2-3 months, and this has caused a lot of tension between users and mods, among users and of course
users and devs. While, in case of the general section, this might be bearable, it is not for the dev section, since the real
devs can't work properly because all the useful information gets buried under the same questions and off-topic again and again.
Just recently, a mod was required to close a thread containing bleeding edge information and made it clear that he had no
intention of reopening it again.
I have spent a lot of time thinking about this, and I want to dump my thoughts for a solution in this thread. While
I don't know to which degree these can be implemented or if they might contradict the philosphy or user-rights of XDA,
I still want to post them. These ideas apply first and foremost to the dev section. I see the dev section as a read-only
section for anyone that doesn't have anything to contribute towards the development, no matter how long he has been
here or how many posts he already made. Therefore I propose the following mechanics to keep the dev sections clear of Spam.
Allow only recognized developers, contributors and the other verified ranks in the forums to start threads in the dev section.
This prevents off topic threads from being created in the first place. If someone new really wants to start a new thread because
he really has something useful to share, I imagine some sort of verification process where users can submit their threads and
moderators, or maybe even the parties allowed to post already, to review and approve the topics. This will create additional workload
on the moderators, but I believe it won't be that much more compared to the endless reports they are receiving right now. Also, allowing
a larger base of users (recognized contributors/developers) to approve the topics will reduce the workload even further.
To prevent the spamming of existing threads, apply the same strategy as mentioned above with the following changes:
For a specific threads, the thread starter (and possibly a list of users defined by the thread starter) can either approve single
posts or users in general to being able to post in the thread. The user, after being approved, will be able to post freely in the
thread, or maybe even in all threads by the approving thread starter.
I know these are very strict rules, but since they are only applied to the dev sections, I think they are worth considering, since it
will reduce all posts made in this section to those really dealing with dev stuff. Like I already mentioned, it may increase the workload
on whatever mods/users will have to approve. This gave life to my idea of expanding this userbase to the recognized developers/contributors
as well.
I see that my concept is anything but precisely laid out, but I think it represents a good base to create a system, that will make the
dev sections of this forum what they used to be: A place where developers can develop without having to read through pages of spam and
off topic and thus be more productive and less pissed off. The approval also puts another step into the process of thread/post creation
that might make users reconsider if they really want to post or perform a simple search first.
Thanks for your time!
Also, in order for this thread to be recognized, please give it a good rating. Thank you.
aMpeX
edit: Just to make myself clear again, this approach is far from perfect, but I believe with some input and discussion, we can make it so.
Please feel free to post your opinions, corrections or extensions to this idea.
I will try to collect some ideas from the discussion to summarize it here:
Inspired by anasdcool71's post:
Give OPs the opportunity to decide whether they want to moderate their thread, or accept any comment that is made during thread creation
by ticking a checkbox for example.
Hear, hear. I have said almost exactly the same thing myself before now and couldn't agree more with your thoughts. It's not an ideal solution, but maybe XDA need to take an uber-strict approach to stop this destruction by its own users.
this topic needs ofc a lot of discussion, expecially since i know neither about the capabilities of the code nor how the owners of XDA want to approach it.
I feel by starting this discussion we can iron out a system that works.
I feel that there is simply no other solution than being a little strict on the dev sections. Users still have enough room to post in the other sections, but in the dev sections, where all the magic happens, this is not helping at all, so I think it makes sense restricting these sections in that manner.
The 2 features are quite good, but still there are certain restrictions.
For the 1st point :-
You said that RCs, RDs and other verified ranks should be allowed to create a thread. Well, most RCs have been given the rank because of their polite and courteous nature throughout the site, and some of their work on guides, ROMs and kernels. RDs are kinda the same, just that their work is an expert one. So basically Senior Members or Members create threads for their ROMs and kernels in the dev section, and then if their work is good enough, they are appointed as RCs and RDs as per the requirement. So this feature cannot extend to only RCs and RDs as it may block the opportunities of other members to become one. Even if a Senior Member is allowed in this feature to create a thread, many good rom devs, who might be new to XDA, may feel the frustration to complete not 10, but 100 posts!
For the 2nd point :-
The OP of the thread might not know the user himself so he might not choose users correctly. Some users holding only the Junior Member or Member title might know a lot of info about that particular rom/kernel. Furthermore, this feature will really prove tiresome for the OP as there will be a lot of users waiting for his/her approval. And as far as the case for spam goes, the OP may inform the particular mod to remove the posts.
anasdcool71 said:
The 2 features are quite good, but still there are certain restrictions.
For the 1st point :-
You said that RCs, RDs and other verified ranks should be allowed to create a thread. Well, most RCs have been given the rank because of their polite and courteous nature throughout the site, and some of their work on guides, ROMs and kernels. RDs are kinda the same, just that their work is an expert one. So basically Senior Members or Members create threads for their ROMs and kernels in the dev section, and then if their work is good enough, they are appointed as RCs and RDs as per the requirement. So this feature cannot extend to only RCs and RDs as it may block the opportunities of other members to become one. Even if a Senior Member is allowed in this feature to create a thread, many good rom devs, who might be new to XDA, may feel the frustration to complete not 10, but 100 posts!
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I know this approach wasn't the best. My chain of thaught was simply to try to restrict the userbase that can start a thread. To enable non RDs and RCs to start threads, I included the idea of an approval by either MODs and/or RDs and RCs. After a user has been approved once, he retains the right to start threads and post in the dev section.
I guess my bigger picture is to build a welldefined group of users allowed to post in the dev section, and also easen the way for this group to include new members, since I believe creating a new verified group and manage applications is just too much work.
anasdcool71 said:
For the 2nd point :-
The OP of the thread might not know the user himself so he might not choose users correctly. Some users holding only the Junior Member or Member title might know a lot of info about that particular rom/kernel. Furthermore, this feature will really prove tiresome for the OP as there will be a lot of users waiting for his/her approval.
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This is also a weak point of my proposition, my idea was to provide some sort of inbox where OPs can see the posts submitted and simply approve the ones he deems fit, thereby weeding out the useless information and SPAM. It is a lot of work ofc, but I, for one, would prefer a clean and moderated dev thread over one bloated with Spam.
Maybe one could let the OP decide which model he wants his thread to follow by, by simply ticking a checkbox during thread creation.
Interesting idea.
I believe I've brought up all of the above suggestions at some point or another (not dismissing or anything, just I have looked into this for a long period of time, several years now in fact!)
I'll try to summarise the benefits and disadvantages of each key suggestion:
1) Allow only "Recognized *" and above to make new threads in dev.
I'd love nothing more than this... The trouble is users wouldn't want it! They will complain if we implement this, since not every developer on XDA is an RD... Some may not have applied, some may have applied but not had it processed yet. Others may have applied and been accepted (but we only add the users to the RD group once per month to reduce time spent on it), and some may have been rejected for not meeting the criteria.
This would end up upsetting more people than it would benefit, causing more arguing and bickering from them
2) Restrict who can post in a thread.
This is what we already aim to do with the 10 post rule. The trouble is that if we raise it, it keeps out genuine contributors. If we lower it, we get crap through. Right now, we think 10 is about the optimum, but that's not to say we're not adverse to ever changing it if needed.
The issue with giving the OP control over who can post is that some people would abuse this. For example, I don't imagine many devs who would "approve" posts critical of their ROM, or giving negative feedback on it. Part of the way XDA works is it ensures that every thread is outwith the control of its owner, so feedback isn't being hidden or removed because it isn't agreed with by the OP of the thread. That's why XDA doesn't follow the trend of a few other sites to give thread owners moderator abilities in their own threads.
We've got a team of mods who are impartial and can deal with issues without considering if a post is "beneficial" to user perception of the developer or not (like a dev would do if he was approving posts).
We do constantly try to think of new ways to solve these problems, and you've given me a few new ones to think about
Thanks
maybe then we should focus on the part of my idea that easens the entry into the group of users that are allowed to posts, not necesarily tieing it to the RC RD status, but unblocking the restrictions individually and extending the committee to administer these admissions from MODs and Admins to RD/RCs.
This would require a one-time effort by new devs, submitting their new ROM/thread to the dev sections, and having it approved by aforementioned group.
pulser_g2 said:
2) Restrict who can post in a thread.
This is what we already aim to do with the 10 post rule. The trouble is that if we raise it, it keeps out genuine contributors. If we lower it, we get crap through. Right now, we think 10 is about the optimum, but that's not to say we're not adverse to ever changing it if needed.
The issue with giving the OP control over who can post is that some people would abuse this. For example, I don't imagine many devs who would "approve" posts critical of their ROM, or giving negative feedback on it. Part of the way XDA works is it ensures that every thread is outwith the control of its owner, so feedback isn't being hidden or removed because it isn't agreed with by the OP of the thread. That's why XDA doesn't follow the trend of a few other sites to give thread owners moderator abilities in their own threads.
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I agree totally about the 10 post limit.. As i have seen many examples of the spam/useless post by newbies/noobs who post in dev section... As our samsung galaxy y duos dev section when created had not got this restriction on it (just an accidental miss i feel).. but its corrected now.. so i have seen how worse it may get if this limit is revoked.. and i have been thinking of an idea as many times i have come across new users complaining that they know about android stuff and they wanted to help dev in development and by the time they complete 10 useful post routine valuable time will be wasted etc... So i thought of this idea when i read the op's message in this thread...
How about providing OP a option to exclude a newbie member who has not made a single post yet to make posts in dev section..? So that if the dev feels/knows the user will be good for his thread and he can contribute to development?
and lets also put another rule to keep spammers away.. as there is a loop hole in my suggestion.. which is when a spammer may create 2 accounts and in one account he will obtain 10 posts and create a thread in dev section.. then spam the thread with another account by making him exception..
So we can add this option to OP of the thread only if the thread has been say one month / one week old... as this will make sure that the thread is not created for spamming and thus it also ensures actual development is going on in the thread and the dev is known.. this exclusion is only for that thread on dev sub forum.. i dont know this may be a too much workload on server..
I was suggesting this exclusion method because i have seen around 5-10 members who PM me whenever they have some issue with my kernel or any other rom related to my device for that matter... i am happy and i have no issues to help them at all.. i have also kindly suggested them to make 10 valuable/useful posts in Q & A section and post in my threads instead of M as it might help other users too who may have same issue/doubt.. but i really cant say it directly into their faces and they may not understand my point ... so i have been interacting with such users through PM and i feel they should have interacted more with forums instead of just one person.. and there might be many others who might have contacting through PM only..
So please consider this..
Also this really is a great suggestion too...
anasdcool71 said:
@pulser_g2 - The if-else statement in your sig is really great. :good:
And I've come up with a request. I've seen that many new users don't actually know/get the reason behind the 10-post limit. I'm not talking anything particularly about spammers, but there are some good users who just don't know the reason. I've just seen so many posts in so many threads saying "this 10-post limit is so frustrating","i have to PM the dev","i can't even report a bug",etc. Not one or two or 10, but many posts like this. So my request was that they'd be directed to that thread "10-post count limit in development fora", after they register. I'm sure many of them will understand. After all, it isn't that hard to get to 10 posts.
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It's an eternal problem than,us, Admins,Mods and all Recognized Tribe against which we are constantly fighting.
In the RC'stribe, we try to think and are trying to find solutions that would enable to reduce the number of useless posts.
I says reduce, cause we can't delete all of these posts.
But the real problem, it's a mentality problem due to Internet.
Actually, with Internet, people can and wanting all, now and quickly. I'm writing a question, I want my answer now!
A large majority of users don't take the time for read and seek. They want everything quickly and now.
And against this fact, we cannot fight!!
For whoever mentioned it, the ten post message does link and explain why... But nobody reads it...
pulser_g2 said:
For whoever mentioned it, the ten post message does link and explain why... But nobody reads it...
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Why ? I don't understand what you mean exactly
I have wrote a post on RC chat about this problem and send the link
philos64 said:
Why ? I don't understand what you mean exactly
I have wrote a post on RC chat about this problem and send the link
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i think he means the 10 post limit sticky thread is already linked and also its explained why its there but still no new user reads it..
philos64 said:
Why ? I don't understand what you mean exactly
I have wrote a post on RC chat about this problem and send the link
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I mean that someone mentioned perhaps making it clearer to users why they can't post etc...
I replied to say that the message already explains this and links them to a thread with information
pulser_g2 said:
I mean that someone mentioned perhaps making it clearer to users why they can't post etc...
I replied to say that the message already explains this and links them to a thread with information
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Sorry @pulser_g2
But I understand what you mean
It's better clear. Thanks