I have a FAN and I just ordered a Tilt2 for $250 with $50 rebate.
Normally FAN phone offers are not as good as the ones offer to the public as the FAN folks gets a discount on their monthly service.
I was trying to make up my mind on a LG Expo or a HTC Tilt2. Both cost me $300. The offer of $100 rebate to Public on LG Expo is not available to FAN folks. The HTC Tilt2 was $350 but with a $50 rebate. That was yesterday! I have been checking both of these phones ever since the LG came out. As yesterday was last day of work, and the offer for rebate is before Christmas. I thought may be I’ll wait a little longer and see if the LG Expo would offer a 100 rebate to FAN customers.
This morning, I locked on to work at home. I just want to check if I could access the ATT Primer Web and saw the Tilt2 went down by $100. Needless to say, I ordered one!
Time is ticking and if folks here have a FAN, this is the window to get the Tilt2. Thought this is such a good deal too good to pass.
(Update)The price drop is good for regular customers and FAN customers.
i got mine about a week ago from letstalk.com and i made 2 cents
It was $198 with a $100 MIR and then sending in my old HTC wizard to HTC for another $100 (you may qualify for this too, head over to http://www.htctradein.com/att/ )
fone_fanatic said:
i got mine about a week ago from letstalk.com and i made 2 cents
It was $198 with a $100 MIR and then sending in my old HTC wizard to HTC for another $100 (you may qualify for this too, head over to http://www.htctradein.com/att/ )
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Thank You! I just gave my Dopod C730 to my son and I am using my back up Treo 650. I was using that to play games. It was in good working condition. I checked that link you provided and I can get a $100. What a deal!
Thank You again!
BTW, I just checked my order and it was shipped from Texas via Fedex. I'll get it by 29th.
Woooo Hooooo!
what is fan
blopez24 said:
what is fan
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Foundation Account Number
http://www.wireless.att.com/businesscenter/enterprise-reference-guide/introduction.jsp
http://wiki.howardforums.com/index.php/Foundation_Account_Number
I just checked ATT Wireless. The discount is also for regular customers not just for FAN customers.
chompx2 said:
I just checked ATT Wireless. The discount is also for regular customers also not just for FAN customers.
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yeah did the same maybe ill go to the store and see if they have it for that price also and pick up instore instead of waiting for it by mail.
blopez24 said:
yeah did the same maybe ill go to the store and see if they have it for that price also and pick up instore instead of waiting for it by mail.
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Usually online deals aren't available in stores and when you talk to someone in the store they'll tell you the same thing.
I've read some posts about people talking to the manager in getting them to match and sometimes beat the online price but i've had no luck in doing this with the Tilt 2 and previous devices.
Plus i live in Texas and it didn't take 2days to get to me without paying extra for shipping
fone_fanatic said:
Usually online deals aren't available in stores and when you talk to someone in the store they'll tell you the same thing.
I've read some posts about people talking to the manager in getting them to match and sometimes beat the online price but i've had no luck in doing this with the Tilt 2 and previous devices.
Plus i live in Texas and it didn't take 2days to get to me without paying extra for shipping
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I've never had a problem gettting prices matches with online prices with ATT going today called and they said the would give it to me for that price actually. Maybe theyre more willing to match in la.
I did a phone upgrade from Fuze to Tilt 2 on December 1st. Price was $349 minus $50 in the rebate card so $299. Just called and complained after seeing the price cut and being (barely) within my 30-day return window and they gave me a $100 credit to my account, dropping my Tilt 2 cost to $199. Now I need to check into the HTC recycle deal and see if I can get $100 for my oldest HTC (an 8125) which would take me to $99 for my Tilt 2. And I'll still have my original Tilt and Fuze as backup phones, and maybe sell my 8525 on ebay.
Amazon have the phone for $99 with free line activation and a $50 gift card plus you can then do the HTC trade in for $100.
i work for an AT&T store and the $199.99 price is across the board for anyone
I got mine from let's talk on black friday weekend for free. without mail in rebate.
Can't you just add a line and get the phone for free, than just terminate the line for $40.00?
Walked into AT&T store here in SoCal on the day after Christmas, and got the Tilt2 for $150 with a $50 rebate ($100 net cost). Have been customer for years, so they gave me some sort of "Premier" discount. Don't know what exactly that is, but I'll take it!
I've been with AT&T a long time and still have the Cingular 8125 which I plan on trading in.
I want to upgrade to the Tilt 2 but will AT&T force me to get a smartphone data plan?
Is there a way to upgrade to a new phone with them touching your existing phone/data plan?
Related
Yupper.
Sick of waiting, figured I'd give the 611/Retention scheme a try and was surprised when the CSR went ahead and processed my order with no hassles whatsoever. Never even had to do the whole retention thing. Retail price was $350 -$50 loyalty discount w/ waived upgrade fee and $50 MIR(form being snail mailed she said).
Take it for what it's worth...there still isn't an "official release date for retail" and maybe I just got lucky, but there it is.
TreyDizzle said:
Yupper.
Sick of waiting, figured I'd give the 611/Retention scheme a try and was surprised when the CSR went ahead and processed my order with no hassles whatsoever. Never even had to do the whole retention thing. Retail price was $350 -$50 loyalty discount w/ waived upgrade fee and $50 MIR(form being snail mailed she said).
Take it for what it's worth...there still isn't an "official release date for retail" and maybe I just got lucky, but there it is.
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The core stores will be able to sell the Tilt 2 on the 18th of this month.
On the phone ordering now, but they have to go through their system and not the website. Through retail/611
got mine thru CSR too. ordered it this morning.
I called them, tried to get transferred to retentions but they wouldn't transfer because they said that retentions is an internal department. so I asked the CS rep if I could upgrade to the tilt 2.
I told her I would go to T-mo since they sell the phone for $50 on the win-mo website, so she dropped it to 300, then took an additional 50 off for loyalty. so I paid 250 w/ MIR.
I couldn't wait any longer. ridiculous AT&T. ridiculous.
I ordered mine as well this morning and hoping it will come tomorrow since it is overnight shipping
Just ordered mine!
$350 - 50 MIR, and the CSR was very nice -- she waived my upgrade and Premium shipping fees.
Bit miffed I couldn't get it at the prices some people were getting through Premier -- or sooner, for that matter -- but I'll live.
No one is getting cheaper than that because people are just talking since no one is ready to show the receipt
zelendel said:
The core stores will be able to sell the Tilt 2 on the 18th of this month.
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What are "core stores"? Are they official At&t retail stores and not "retail partners"?
$125 Got it today
I had already posted this in another thread.
I paid the $350 +TAX will obiously use the $50 rebate. Got FedEx next day shipping for free. Got a $175 credit onto my account to offset the cost of the phone. So my price will be $125 +TAX all said and done. It wasnt very hard to get them to work with me. Since they credited the account not discounting the device I will still get to use the MIR.
Good Luck everyone. Hope to see you get great deals!
vikramdhani said:
No one is getting cheaper than that because people are just talking since no one is ready to show the receipt
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cheaper then what? i got mine for 199.99. i'll show you the receipt when i receive my phone on friday if you want.
Some stores have already gotten tilt 2s in. And some will already sell them before oct. 18th. One store here got 4 in today when I stopped in looking for a case for mine and said they would sell them today. Granted many stores may not see them till the 18th or sell them till then. You can always call around as I did to find out. I ordered mine thru rententions yesterday (I got it today 299.99 free overnight shipping plus a 50.00 mail in rebate =249.99) It all depends what rep you get, what mood there in and how generous they feel.
For those of you who are getting the tilt 2 for ~$249.99, is this with a new 2 year contract??
BzeBwoi said:
For those of you who are getting the tilt 2 for ~$249.99, is this with a new 2 year contract??
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Yep. That's what I got mine for. I didn't mind re-upping.
Hi,
Just ordered mine from 611/CSR.
Rep I spoke to gave no indication it was not available and I played along, I just want my Tilt2. Got it for $299.99 plus MIR (Had a $50 upgrade credit available)
So should have it in 2 Bus. days.
Thanks for the heads-up.
Picked mine up at a corporate store last night. I did not previously order one or have one on reserve, just called as asked. They said they received a few in their shipment yesterday (10/14 US, 14/10 for those on the other side of the lake).
vwauditech said:
I had already posted this in another thread.
I paid the $350 +TAX will obiously use the $50 rebate. Got FedEx next day shipping for free. Got a $175 credit onto my account to offset the cost of the phone. So my price will be $125 +TAX all said and done. It wasnt very hard to get them to work with me. Since they credited the account not discounting the device I will still get to use the MIR.
Good Luck everyone. Hope to see you get great deals!
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Click to collapse
How did you do that? Did you just ask them straight up or did you have to play some games with them? I'd like to know.
I just picked up my Tilt 2 from a retail store. The lady seemed more than happy to sell it to me. She said they got 3 in and she didn't seem to know anything about the 18th release date.
I did call numerous other stores before I ended up at the one that sold me the phone. One store said they only had the Pure in, another said the release date was the 18th, another said that they got the Tilt 2 in but was unable to sell it at the non-commitment price because they had so little in (I then asked her how long she thought I would have to wait before I could buy it at the non-commitment price, and she said 'about a month').
Anyway, i'm just glad I got the phone. I am loving it. The screen is beautiful and I haven't encountered any issues so far. Totally worth the $499 I paid.
Yay!!
I just got mine last night! I have a family member who works at one store and I know people from the CSR's up to the Reigonal Mgrs. They all have been told to say the 18th...a Sunday?? But they started getting shipments as of yesterday.
Some stores are going to have MS people setup Kiosks and show people the Pure and the Tilt 2.
Now... when to start flashing.
See ya Fuze... it was great while it lasted! 8)
Just confirming.. I ordered my through 611... Did not have to ask for retention.
$199 with the $50 rebate.
Overnight Shipping $14.95
Looking forward to getting the tracking number. Wonder if I will get it on Saturday?
sphinx88 said:
Just confirming.. I ordered my through 611... Did not have to ask for retention.
$199 with the $50 rebate.
Overnight Shipping $14.95
Looking forward to getting the tracking number. Wonder if I will get it on Saturday?
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What did you say or do to get that price + rebate?
Best price for a ET4G on Sprint upgrade? Anything lower than $150?
My sister is eligible for an upgrade, she loves my ET4G so I was looking to get her one. Wirefly/Amazon both show $79 for new contract or $150 for upgrades. Anyone know anything better than $150? Damn I paid $100 when it first came out! Thanks.
Sorry for double post, I got to buy her the phone in less than 48 hours! Thanks!
Amazon Wireless has it for 79.99, I tried to post the link but I'm too much of a noob to be allowed yet.
Go to target.com and find it on there website. Its 99 bucks go to best buy they are price matching till January 20 th. Boom epic 4g for 99. Its 79 on amazon but you have to wait bestbuy you get it that day. I got two epic last week from best buy for 99 each
sent from my blobfish (if you don't know what a blobfish is, Google it)
Esoteric68 said:
Amazon Wireless has it for 79.99, I tried to post the link but I'm too much of a noob to be allowed yet.
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http://www.amazon.com/Samsung-Galax...N47S/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1326114980&sr=8-1
Here is the link you couldnt post. Ill be taking this deal to get my mom this phone
You guys know that at target its $99.99 with new line but $150 with an upgrade right? And amazon is $79.99 with a new line, but $150 with an upgrade. Its pretty much $150 everywhere for upgrades.
texas83 said:
Best price for a ET4G on Sprint upgrade? Anything lower than $150?
My sister is eligible for an upgrade, she loves my ET4G so I was looking to get her one. Wirefly/Amazon both show $79 for new contract or $150 for upgrades. Anyone know anything better than $150? Damn I paid $100 when it first came out! Thanks.
Sorry for double post, I got to buy her the phone in less than 48 hours! Thanks!
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Look for Wirefly 10% online coupon code just used it 5 days ago.
If you trade in ANY working phone (not just smart phones) to radio shack you can get it for 100 bucks.
WAAAH! How long have these prices been going on for? I paid $199.99 about a month or so ago for an upgrade
Thanks for all the replies, but I already know abt the $79 amazon deal. I need to UPGRADE an existing sprint line that is eligible for discounted upgrade - i dont need to sign up a new phone number or line. So the amazon price/wirefly price is $150 for upgrades. Regarding radio shack, do you know if that $100 price is for upgrades as well?
I believe the $79.99 deal at Amazon is only for new customers, not upgrading. If you are upgrading then it is $149.99
Ill be getting it for $79.99 next week
I got mine on the 26th from Sprint.
They were having a deal (25th-31st) if your upgrade was near that they would upgrade you sooner and I got my et4g for $126.00 with the trade in of my evo.
By far this phone is immaculate but I think I just got my first problem with it.
The vibrate is making a super weird noise that it really shouldn't be making.
Hope you find a good deal for it!
Sprint will give you $90 (as a credit to your bill) for your old HTC EVO, even if you don;t buy a phone through them.
https://secure.sprintbuyback.com/cns/
You'd do better to sell it on fleabay.
I sold mine for $200.
colorado_al said:
Sprint will give you $90 (as a credit to your bill) for your old HTC EVO, even if you don;t buy a phone through them.
You'd do better to sell it on fleabay.
I sold mine for $200.
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Unfortunately I already traded it in and got my ET4G. :/
My Target has the upgrade for $99 as well (I'm near Seattle). Don't know if it's like that everywhere, but it is here. They've also been out of stock since Christmas so I went to Best Buy and although they're supposed to call and verify availability, they didn't! Also, Best Buy has better insurance than Sprint, 10 bucks a month and no deductible! Also, if you can get it at Target, they have a better trade in program. Best Buy was only going to give me $30 for a brand new Vibrant, Radio Shack was $65, but Target was $90! Still going to sell it elsewhere, but it's good info to have!
Just talked to a Costco representative who said that the Nokia Lumia 900 is likely to be there on launch day but if not, it'll be there in the first week. Price is going to be $99.99.
Why buy at Costco?
You only pay tax on the sales price (instead of paying tax on the retail value) and Costco also give you a free car charger, case and screen protector. You also get 30 days to return the phone if you don't like it for a full refund.
Not too bad to wait an extra few days if it's not available on launch day.
But AT&T will be free and Amazon for one cent. Plus I heard (see posts in the same forum) that there will be special promo in AT&T stores.
Not so sure if Costco is the best deal. Plus you have to pay for a Costco Membership.
PaullikesWINMO said:
But AT&T will be free and Amazon for one cent. Plus I heard (see posts in the same forum) that there will be special promo in AT&T stores.
Not so sure if Costco is the best deal. Plus you have to pay for a Costco Membership.
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Keep in mind that the free and one cent promos are for brand new customers. It's a great deal if any one decides to switch carriers.
---
I am here: http://tapatalk.com/map.php?ezsdjd
Costco is selling to anyone regardless of status (new or existing customer) for $99 ?
PaullikesWINMO said:
Costco is selling to anyone regardless of status (new or existing customer) for $99 ?
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I tried to get 710 for my wife off contract from Costco and the wouldn't even sell it to me. I doubt they would offer it for 99$ unless you are new.
That's what I thought... so if you are new subscriber AT&T and Amazon is better deal. Not that I can buy from them, but I do live close enough to the border and if there a better deal to be had, I would want to see the details. I know off contract is going to be about $450. But if Costco is selling for $99 then I would be interested. Seems to me that AT&T and Amazon are the place to buy for new subscribers.
cx1 said:
I tried to get 710 for my wife off contract from Costco and the wouldn't even sell it to me. I doubt they would offer it for 99$ unless you are new.
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Yeah I think they are not entirely sure until it's in store which hopefully is on April 9th.
PaullikesWINMO said:
Costco is selling to anyone regardless of status (new or existing customer) for $99 ?
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You do need to be a Costco member to take advantage of it but if you already have it, it's pretty good.
PaullikesWINMO said:
That's what I thought... so if you are new subscriber AT&T and Amazon is better deal. Not that I can buy from them, but I do live close enough to the border and if there a better deal to be had, I would want to see the details. I know off contract is going to be about $450. But if Costco is selling for $99 then I would be interested. Seems to me that AT&T and Amazon are the place to buy for new subscribers.
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Does Amazon still have it for 1 cent and AT&T still free for new subscribers? I tried it a few days ago and those deals didn't seem to be available. I would go that route too but I'm adding a new line to an existing AT&T family plan so I don't think those would work for me.
uptempo777 said:
Does Amazon still have it for 1 cent and AT&T still free for new subscribers? I tried it a few days ago and those deals didn't seem to be available. I would go that route too but I'm adding a new line to an existing AT&T family plan so I don't think those would work for me.
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Apparently it's a discount applied at final checkout so the phone is free or one cent. Obviously I cannot try it because I'm not in the USA.
Best to call up AT&T or go to the store. Apparently there is also some other free stuff they are kicking in but that's not confirmed.
Just found out that Sam's Club is doing a similar deal to Costco where they only charge tax on the sales price of the phone. They don't include all the accessories that Costco does but another option if you have a membership to Sam's Club already.
I was in Costco today and noticed that the T-Mobile GS3 has dropped to $199 no mail in needed. I bought two of them when it released last month. Since I was still within 30 days I was able to get it adjusted. Nice to walk out of Costco with an extra $100. Anybody else that bought from Costco should be able to do the same. Enjoy the extra cash!
Sent from my SGH-T999 using xda app-developers app
..
Wow this is ridiculous.
Super pissed that I got it from a T-Mo retailer now...anyone know of anyways we can get adjusted?
Yeah... the costco deal finally pushed me to trash my 2-year old vibrant and upgrade.
I still can't get used to how massive the SGS3 is.
eddylee09 said:
Wow this is ridiculous.
Super pissed that I got it from a T-Mo retailer now...anyone know of anyways we can get adjusted?
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I yelled at retention for a few days, eventually they gave me a credit. First they said I could return, pay the $50 and buy it from Wal-Mart, then that didn't work so they gave me a $50 credit. Then they said I could do it in a few days "when the system reset" showing me eligible for an upgrade. That didn't happen either. Then they said they would sell it to me from customer service for 199 or I could buy it from a retail store and they would credit my account. Worked out, just had to pay a bit more up front.
Yea, this is how i got my phone about 2 weeks ago. They even had a deal where you could get a GS2 for free on another line. It should be the same at every Costco. So i payed 199 for the GS3 and my dad got the GS2 for free. So worth it. Big upgrade from my Mytouch 4G
I order one from target at 199
Sent from my Garminfone using xda premium
i just ordered one as well from loyalty dept...i was able to talk the rep down to 189 as well. plus tax...he charged me full 279 but gave me a 90 dollar credit on my account with no upgrade fee and i will pay it till my next bill so i have a couple weeks till its due. glad i waited till now to buy it. Now i just gotta wait for ups
Keep in mind that at Costco, they charge you tax on the pre-coupon price, so here in WA, where tax is 9.5% it kinda sucks. But they do have great customer service and free accessories.
gaarry said:
Keep in mind that at Costco, they charge you tax on the pre-coupon price, so here in WA, where tax is 9.5% it kinda sucks. But they do have great customer service and free accessories.
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This is true, but it's not being calculated from the MSRP either, it's calculated off their reduced wholesale price, which for me in CA, for 16GB SGS3 was $389.99, and that came out to $34 in tax (8.75% tax where I live.) Compare this to T-mobile who wanted to charge me tax off the full $629.99 MSRP, which would have been $55 in tax, and it's still $21 cheaper, even if you can talk t-mobile down to the $199 price.
Cheers
I had actually ordered yesterday direct from Samsung which was giving $350 trade in for the same phone plus $70 for accessories. I just checked my Tmo app and saw this new Promo so I cancelled the Samsung order and put the order in with TMO which is giving the trade in values for purchase of a variety of the new Samsung phones. They charged $88 for taxes and upgrade fee, then give me a $125 credit when the old phone is returned and $375 in monthly bill credits. The bottom line is that I make $37 up from TMO and then have to pay $15 a month for 24 months.
You may or may not be able to use Insider code type 3 from TMO. $200 rebate.
Rakuten is showing a ("up to") 10% rebate on samsung.com.
snowkilts said:
Rakuten is showing a ("up to") 10% rebate on samsung.com.
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It's only 3% for mobile. But they will match the BestBuy or others price of $100 less.. Ask for it over chat before you checkout...
bkdodger said:
It's only 3% for mobile. But they will match the BestBuy or others price of $100 less.. Ask for it over chat before you checkout...
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Click to collapse
Didn't work for me. Samsung chat said I had to call a phone number for price matching, then the person on the phone said they don't price match.
snowkilts said:
Didn't work for me. Samsung chat said I had to call a phone number for price matching, then the person on the phone said they don't price match.
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Find out Amazon is 100$ cheaper. I just live chatted with samsung and they rapidly promised to refund me 100$... (I'm in US
snowkilts said:
Didn't work for me. Samsung chat said I had to call a phone number for price matching, then the person on the phone said they don't price match.
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No way! That rep knew nothing don't give up on it.. Plus if you cancel the order it will ask on it why if you choose better price and name place where you see it cheaper they will offer discount to keep order.. We have done it on other phone orders
counotott said:
Find out Amazon is 100$ cheaper. I just live chatted with samsung and they rapidly promised to refund me 100$... (I'm in US
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Click to collapse
Awesome... Good to hear.. Also check prices guys I know they change at different places I think BB went back up fromy posting...
bkdodger said:
No way! That rep knew nothing don't give up on it.. Plus if you cancel the order it will ask on it why if you choose better price and name place where you see it cheaper they will offer discount to keep order.. We have done it on other phone orders Awesome... Good to hear.. Also check prices guys I know they change at different places I think BB went back up fromy posting...
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UPDATE: I MAY be getting the price match after all, but its not worth the drama.
A second person on chat told me they were 110% sure they were doing price matching, but you have to order first, then get the match. I went ahead and ordered and called yesterday to get the match, but they said they couldn't see it in their system yet, try later.
Called again today and was told I had to wait until the order was shipped to get the match. Spent about 20 min on the phone with them with nonsense.
After the call I decided to just cancel and buy from Amazon. Samsung's website then offered me 10% off to keep the order, so I said ok (credit applied after shipping). Theoretically I can still call when it ships and get the full price match.
Suggestions to avoid the drama:
1) buy from Samsung for $700, get 3% back from Rakuten, plus $70 instant credit on samsung.com, then cancel the order and accept the 10% rebate, OR
2) buy from Amazon for $600.
snowkilts said:
UPDATE: I MAY be getting the price match after all, but its not worth the drama.
A second person on chat told me they were 110% sure they were doing price matching, but you have to order first, then get the match. I went ahead and ordered and called yesterday to get the match, but they said they couldn't see it in their system yet, try later.
Called again today and was told I had to wait until the order was shipped to get the match. Spent about 20 min on the phone with them with nonsense.
After the call I decided to just cancel and buy from Amazon. Samsung's website then offered me 10% off to keep the order, so I said ok (credit applied after shipping). Theoretically I can still call when it ships and get the full price match.
Suggestions to avoid the drama:
1) buy from Samsung for $700, get 3% back from Rakuten, plus $70 instant credit on samsung.com, then cancel the order and accept the 10% rebate, OR
2) buy from Amazon for $600.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I'd rather buy from Samsung that's just me... I did the cancel thing after order on my fold 2 and got $100 back credited when they charged me for order once it shipped...if going that way you would usually get email telling you of the credit you will get at shipping... I would still chat them for the full $100 match... Don't know why they giving you such hard time... Ughhh sorry to hear it..
When I cancelled my order with Samsung it just cancelled and I was not offered any discount to continue with the purchase. Samsung was offering $350 trade in for the S9 plus $70 for accessories, which I generally find to be quite expensive at Samsung. So the $500 trade in from TMO gave me $80 more than I would have received from Samsung. Although I also like to buy direct from Samsung, I felt a little burned by them when they dropped the price of the Note 20 Ultra by $200 just three weeks after it was delivered.
When I ordered mine, Samsung told me I had to wait until it shipped. I traded in an iPhone 11 Pro, which took the phone down to $55.00 US. After it shipped I messaged them back, and they told me they couldn't refund more than I paid, so they gave me a $110.00 Samsung Credit code within about 2 hours.
snowkilts said:
UPDATE: I MAY be getting the price match after all, but its not worth the drama.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
SECOND UPDATE: I ended up getting both the 10% ($70) rebate for not cancelling AND the $100 price match, so yay me, I guess. So my final out the door price from Samsung was $530 USD (plus tax). That included the $70 credit at the Samsung store, which I used to buy a case and their little discount fitbit. I also got a 2% rebate from Rakuten and 1.5% from my credit card (Capitol One).
Traded in my OnePlus 6t for $500 trade in discount at T-mobile. Will pay about $9/mth for 2yrs
Once you realize that this device gets left out of their beta program, and their monthly updates. It doesn't looks as nice as it seems. October security patch was launched for all S20 devices, except the S20 FE. Beta program is the same, all S20 family devices except S20 FE. Not so appealing now.