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"Development and Hacking" forum grown and the topics are kinda mixed up.. eg: ROM development tools mixed with Themes, "ported/hacked" Applications, user-made apps, etc etc.
I think that this area should be divised. It's hard to seek a topic. Maybe one is interested in ROM tools (eg: NBHextract, XIP port, dumprom, etc,etc), maybe someone in ported applications (omnia touchwizz interface, asus glide, xperia panels, xperia camera, htc album, etc), maybe others in development resoruces.. and maybe others in applications made by xda-developers.
So, one sugestion is to split create one new category Development and Hacking wich contains the following sub-forums:
- ROM Development Tools
- Homescreen Plugins (Manilla, TouchWizz, Asus Glide, BatteryMetter, etc)
- Ported Applications
- xda-dev Applications
- xda-dev Games
- Applications Hacking (?)
- Development Resources & Tips & Tricks
The name of the forums may not be the same.. also, other sub-forums may be added.. This is just a suggestion. This forum really contains valuable information but it must be more organized.
Regards
i would have to disagree myself. i think the section is fine the way it is (all the question threads removed ) If you know what you are after then you just need to search. I think splitting things up willo nly result in more confusion on the common user's part (not knowing where top ost with so many options) and further more this is a development website, not a cache of programs like a freeware website. Whats being developed at the moment will be on top, everything else will fade out behind but still accesible if you know what you are looking for.
First, sorry if the original version of this comes off the wrong way, I just noticed it might read a little snotty...especially since I started typing it before joel2009's post, but it as posted up later it reads like I'm arguing.
joel2009 said:
I think splitting things up will only result in more confusion on the common user's part (not knowing where to post with so many options) and further more this is a development website, not a cache of programs like a freeware website. Whats being developed at the moment will be on top, everything else will fade out behind but still accesible if you know what you are looking for.
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The main problem I think is that there's so much traffic in that single spot that the list of threads marked "Today" stretches into the 5th page sometimes. I'm pretty sure a lot more gets lost and many good threads aren't seen at all. It's made worse by there being a couple of different forums listed under specific models of phone which are obviously resources for many others. Examples include:
Kaiser software, which has a lot of postings that apply to several other phones.
Raphael Software/Themes Apps and Software (Diamond), both of these basically cover the same thing. I've seen a number of people make requests or ask questions that are already resolved in the other thread.
The main D&H forum, even if you ignore the little groupings the OP had (i.e. xda releases vs. ported apps), is home to at least 3 very separate postings/releases; ROM Tools, Phone Apps, and Skins/Themes. For a "simple" user who's just trying to watch for themes and skins this is a lot of unnecessary noise. Imagine a Raphael or Diamond owner looking for applications, there's at least 4 groups to watch and 3 of them are kept under specific phones. A new diamond owner won't realize all the stuff they are missing. I think that's more confusing to new users.
My suggestion, to be taken worth it's digital equivalence to a grain of salt, is to break it up into ROM Tools, Apps (both ported and user-developed), Themes & Skins. I would also put them into a major category that would be consequently named Development and Hacking, and probably move the Networking and Upgrading groups over there as well.
I'd personally also like to see a single forum just dedicated to programming. It's pretty obvious that there's a good cross-section of members who are also programmers, some of which have demonstrated more talent than most other sites can boast. There's a lot of people trying to write programs but are rooting around a lot of other forums which aren't too suited to answer their questions. The other thing is that it might give more inspiration for some of the people who are good at UI and some people who are good with system/functional programming to talk to each other or even work together on apps. Many others have pointed it out, for a site to have 'developers' in the title, it's really strange that there's not even a little conversation about one of the main forms of development.
joel2009 information must be organized..
some things are contradictory in your post. you say "I think splitting things up willo nly result in more confusion on the common user's part" and "this is a development website". If it's a development website than the development area must be extended, not limited to one sub-forum that contains different kind of stuff.
Also, maybe some of us want to learn from other developers experience.. (see "Development Resources & Tips & Tricks" sub-forum)..
The way how it's in this moment create confusion not only for the developer but also for the regular users. Maybe some developers are interested only on ROM tools. Maybe some users are looking just ROM tools. It will be hard for all of us because this section of the site is constantly growing and contain all kind of stuff (themes, apps, tools, etc).
Organizing the information into sub-forums is A MUST.
+ you can add a new subforum for "Ideas for application" where people can post ideas for developers.
If detailed descriptions are used for each sub-forum there will be less to none confusion rate (additionally someone can write about these sections so everybody will understand..).
Just my humble opinion, but I think they fit well together. The difference is small between the two and it would just require me to check two boards to get the same info.
I say let's hold a vote.
DSF said:
"Development and Hacking" forum grown and the topics are kinda mixed up.. eg: ROM development tools mixed with Themes, "ported/hacked" Applications, user-made apps, etc etc.
I think that this area should be divised. It's hard to seek a topic. Maybe one is interested in ROM tools (eg: NBHextract, XIP port, dumprom, etc,etc), maybe someone in ported applications (omnia touchwizz interface, asus glide, xperia panels, xperia camera, htc album, etc), maybe others in development resoruces.. and maybe others in applications made by xda-developers.
So, one sugestion is to split create one new category Development and Hacking wich contains the following sub-forums:
- ROM Development Tools
- Homescreen Plugins (Manilla, TouchWizz, Asus Glide, BatteryMetter, etc)
- Ported Applications
- xda-dev Applications
- xda-dev Games
- Applications Hacking (?)
- Development Resources & Tips & Tricks
The name of the forums may not be the same.. also, other sub-forums may be added.. This is just a suggestion. This forum really contains valuable information but it must be more organized.
Regards
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I'v been thinking the same for a long time now.
Thats not contradictory at all. The Development and hacking section is for contributers, if you are contributing an app you are developing or in need of help dev, then that is what the section is for. Things start getting more complicated when you are trying to post your own work and there are several different sections you have to swarm though to find the appropriate one. I'm a fan of keep things simple.
If you are trying to follow a specific thread, then you can bookmark it or subscribe to it.
The main problem I think is that there's so much traffic in that single spot that the list of threads marked "Today" stretches into the 5th page sometimes. I'm pretty sure a lot more gets lost and many good threads aren't seen at all. It's made worse by there being a couple of different forums listed under specific models of phone which are obviously resources for many others.
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The list that is bold when you log on only shows the threads you have not read since the last time you viewed the page. If you are interested in reading everything than you will read on through them.
Here is an example, looking at you list of stuff:
- ROM Development Tools
- Homescreen Plugins (Manilla, TouchWizz, Asus Glide, BatteryMetter, etc)
- Ported Applications
- xda-dev Applications
- xda-dev Games
- Applications Hacking (?)
- Development Resources & Tips & Tricks
What if i ported a today plugin, then where would i put it?
This is just a small example but it illustrates my point that things can get messy upon where things go. Keeping one section keeps it simple and easy.
I understand both sides, but it seems that this point will be argued for a while longer, as it has been for the last few months.
I think the biggest problem is there are always themes coming out since newer apps are coming out with the ability to skin them. Personally, I would have to vote with the splitting of the two main sections since it is starting to grow a lot. On the other hand, they do fit together since a theme could be categorized as a "hack". But, the more and more the section grows, the harder it will be to find things. Considering all of the hard work and effort put into to these custom themes, a new section set for those who create the themes would be nice.
EDIT: lol DAMN! I thought the discussion was about themes and apps, my point still stands though.
joel2009 the list is just a suggestion - it may be modified.. What I wanted to underline is that the "Development and Hacking" forum is growing day by day, making harder to find interesting threads.
The faster you organize the information the better. If not, later the forum will grow so much that will be very hard to watch + the job to move the thousands of topics..
TheChampJT is right..
I think the real issue is that most users don't realize the amount of time it takes just to keep the forum as organized as it is. Splitting the hacking & development forum would require us to watch 7 threads instead of one, which honestly is a pretty full job in and of itself at this point.
Joel does a good job of drawing attention to how confusing it will be for users wanting to post new information. I know it's really frustrating to certain users to have to read through a couple pages of threads to find the one they're looking for, but it really is the simplest solution.
I think one issues that has been side stepped is that there really aren't a lot of developers asking us to split this stuff up. It's easy enough, and simple enough for them to use, especially after all the great work done by the Q & A team to clean it up. I find it pretty easy to find what i'm looking for in the thread now.
I think the thing that would help more than anything to simplify things for users would be for all threads to adopt the proper naming of their threads. Then it would be easy to see what threads are themes, what are apps, what are games. Unfortunately, the application of proper naming is very inconsistent.
Ultimately I feel that splitting the forums would cause more confusion, more frustration, and more work, so at this point I think it best to leave things as they are until we come up with a better solution.
Going to keep my post very short, the way XDA is split up is to help users to which commonly end up posting in the wrong sections as it is, the more sections we have the more confusion of posters, then we have the mods who have a hard enough time as it is trying to sift out the "wrong posters" so what was my point again? Lets keep things simple so simple peeps don't post in the wrong sections and the mods don't get over worked for there voluntary position
Hi Mods,
Am I the only one who find "Development and Hacking" hard to browse?
Is it perhaps possible to create sub sections in this thread? Like all those
WM 6.5 and later Wm 7.x topics? Only of interest if you use those OSes.
Perhaps also sections for Today Plugins by type: manilla etc etc.
Just my two cents.
Cheers
I would make subforums for: Games, Apps, UIs etc. Most of the apps for 6.1 are compatible with 6.5 and vice versa, so imo there's no need for making such sections
Kamill said:
I would make subforums for: Games, Apps, UIs etc. Most of the apps for 6.1 are compatible with 6.5 and vice versa, so imo there's no need for making such sections
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agreed, especially skins...they sometimes crowd the first page and hide the interesting stuff back a dozen pages.
but it would also be benificial if you could toggle on or off certain topics at the top of the board
This was mentioned on the blackstone forum - I commented there that it would be good to see sub-categories for resolutions so questions specific to WVGA (for example) would more likely be found by another WVGA user and hopefully answered (titanium apps are a good example of this).
There is a lot of us on here these days with a lot of different models which is what makes this community so great but some more granularity would surely assist us in looking for help and where possible, help others.
I voted yes but "no" and "fine as it is" are the same answer are they not????
Yep you are very right My fault. Did it a bit too quick. But cannot change it anymore.
Yeah I agree with the Games/Skins/Apps/Drivers.../Ideas/ etc.. Its hard to find what you need when the good stuff can be pushed back 4 or 5+ pages by skins/themes or stuff you already have.
by reolution..
unowho said:
This was mentioned on the blackstone forum - I commented there that it would be good to see sub-categories for resolutions so questions specific to WVGA (for example) would more likely be found by another WVGA user and hopefully answered (titanium apps are a good example of this).
There is a lot of us on here these days with a lot of different models which is what makes this community so great but some more granularity would surely assist us in looking for help and where possible, help others.
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I agree...
the best way would be..
1.WVGA
2.VGA
3.QVGA
4. all resolutions..
5. and so on....
i think games and apps and wat not might get muddled...
resolutions is the way to go
Thread Moved to : About xda-developers.com Forum
please yes. that section is an absolute mess. organizing by resolution or better yet, type of software would be fantastic.
"No" and "Fine as it is" is the same answer
And I also say "no" , because it's a development Forum - and it's a need to think outside the box. If we would have sections for Apps, Games or for Systems like 6.5 or Resolutions - some people never would look into and would know, which new Technologies or Ideas are available.
And for Developers (they are used to a search function) there are ideas at all the most important issue.
And have a look on other sides, where you see the "high gloss brochures" - which shows the free apps for WinMo with categories - in manner of AppStore from Apple - at the end you will find a link to xda-devs, to download or know more about the Apps
It's logical, that this poll will have as result, that there should be sub-categories for xda-devs - it's good for downloaders.
But for developers: They would oversee new ideas on other plattforms, the would get a tunnel vision on their own system.
And not so much ideas... would result in fewer Apps & Dwnloads. And so the people would have a nice overview (perhaps), but not so much cool ideas at all.
There are more than enough sides, which categorizes the Developers Apps here. But please leave us our "development environment" here - to see, with which people we could work together, to provide new Apps& Ideas... for everybody of us. What's up, if we would only develop for one resolution? And then we have to switch everything if we make multi-res? Senseless additional work for Developers... and especially too much work for the Mods.
It's better to work with Prefixes like "[App]" that makes a better overview. And Recommendations in the Sections of each device here.
And also to have as Downloader a possibility to think outside the box.
Micha
I have to disagree with you on at least one point.
This is from our home page...
But as our site grew we realised that lots of ordinary users were also suffering from a lack of support. They started using the xda-developers forum to communicate and before long the forum was as much a user forum as it was a developer forum.
The poll is certainly backing this up.
Now 281 reads but only 55 votes. Seems that a lot of visitors don't care.
@mods, can you please make it a sticky in Development and Hacking until the end of the poll?
Cheers
I'm not very good with MSPaint, but I mocked up something I think could help a lot of people navigate this site a little easier. The search function works, but why shouldn't you be able to see a list of ROMs at a glance? A lot of the development forums here have several sticky posts, and things become difficult to navigate.
When threads that just list ROMs contained in a forum have to be stickied, it shows that a change is necessary because people aren't able to locate the one they're looking for. There are several threads in the same dev forums that have the same keywords, and this makes searching very aggravating sometimes.
Let me know what you think about this mock-up. I know it looks kind of ****ty, but try to see what I was getting at. Instead of drilling down into the forum to find an official thread about a specific ROM, just click the icon at the top of the forum page... or you could put this type of list on it's own page separate from the actual developer forum.
generic.imitation said:
I'm not very good with MSPaint, but I mocked up something I think could help a lot of people navigate this site a little easier. The search function works, but why shouldn't you be able to see a list of ROMs at a glance? A lot of the development forums here have several sticky posts, and things become difficult to navigate.
When threads that just list ROMs contained in a forum have to be stickied, it shows that a change is necessary because people aren't able to locate the one they're looking for. There are several threads in the same dev forums that have the same keywords, and this makes searching very aggravating sometimes.
Let me know what you think about this mock-up. I know it looks kind of ****ty, but try to see what I was getting at. Instead of drilling down into the forum to find an official thread about a specific ROM, just click the icon at the top of the forum page... or you could put this type of list on it's own page separate from the actual developer forum.
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They are currenty working on a Dev tool, that will make finding Roms much easier, plus lots more features, so your idea is a good one, just they are already on it.
I don't knock anyone who has an idea, good or bad. At least it shows ppl are thinking and want to share their idea
It has been a couple months since I've been on the site and quite often I am directed to what I want to find via a google search.
However when trying to access the forums today from the top banner bar, the options seem extremely limited.
It lists things like "Top Phones" "New Phones" "Root Tools" "Top Apps", etc. and each of these has a small sub menu of choices.
However I can't find a way to just access the General discussion forum...the one I'm posting in now.
In order to get here I needed to google "XDA general discussion" and then clumsily navigate to this "About XDA" sub section.
Am I missing something with how this site has been updated and how one is supposed to navigate it?
thanks.
TraderJack said:
It has been a couple months since I've been on the site and quite often I am directed to what I want to find via a google search.
However when trying to access the forums today from the top banner bar, the options seem extremely limited.
It lists things like "Top Phones" "New Phones" "Root Tools" "Top Apps", etc. and each of these has a small sub menu of choices.
However I can't find a way to just access the General discussion forum...the one I'm posting in now.
In order to get here I needed to google "XDA general discussion" and then clumsily navigate to this "About XDA" sub section.
Am I missing something with how this site has been updated and how one is supposed to navigate it?
thanks.
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https://forum.xda-developers.com/showpost.php?p=72689104&postcount=2
sd_shadow said:
https://forum.xda-developers.com/showpost.php?p=72689104&postcount=2
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Thanks, that does give me a little bit more control.
However (to anyone listening who cares) - this still has problems. In order to search for a forum to jump to, I must first know its name to search.
In my case, since I've been here a while I know/knew there were general forums, so I typed "general" and I was able to pull some of them up.
But for new users, or anyone unsure of where to post a topic that doesn't have to do with a specific device it still obscures the entire forum structure from them.
Also, unless I was referred to the link above, there is really no way for me to know that typing in that box is how I find a forum, since it says "Type device...& more"....that "more" is pretty broad.
Wouldn't/couldn't it be a good idea to both write somewhere up there that the box is how you are meant to navigate to a specific forum rather than just search? Also couldn't there be a link within the list of results that always shows that allows one to view an entire structured list of the forums?
Part of the issue as I see it is that while many thinks are device based, there are certain issues that have the same solutions across a wide array of devices. For instance I just had an issue with APN settings being grayed out (non editable) on my wife's Galaxy S5, but I saw similar posts and partial solutions scattered throughout device forums for dozens of devices. I know that there will never be full consolidation into one "general" topic for these, but I think having a "general" forum (or forums) as the first landing page for these types of questions is more beneficial than forcing users (simply by the current design) to post in their specific device.
Anyway, I might be late to the party and these discussions may have already beat the horse dead, I still love the site for the wealth of information it provides but IMHO the redesign in this aspect borked functionality/ease of use when it comes to "finding" the right place to go to post a new thread.
/
TraderJack said:
Thanks, that does give me a little bit more control.
However (to anyone listening who cares) - this still has problems. In order to search for a forum to jump to, I must first know its name to search.
In my case, since I've been here a while I know/knew there were general forums, so I typed "general" and I was able to pull some of them up.
But for new users, or anyone unsure of where to post a topic that doesn't have to do with a specific device it still obscures the entire forum structure from them.
Also, unless I was referred to the link above, there is really no way for me to know that typing in that box is how I find a forum, since it says "Type device...& more"....that "more" is pretty broad.
Wouldn't/couldn't it be a good idea to both write somewhere up there that the box is how you are meant to navigate to a specific forum rather than just search? Also couldn't there be a link within the list of results that always shows that allows one to view an entire structured list of the forums?
Part of the issue as I see it is that while many thinks are device based, there are certain issues that have the same solutions across a wide array of devices. For instance I just had an issue with APN settings being grayed out (non editable) on my wife's Galaxy S5, but I saw similar posts and partial solutions scattered throughout device forums for dozens of devices. I know that there will never be full consolidation into one "general" topic for these, but I think having a "general" forum (or forums) as the first landing page for these types of questions is more beneficial than forcing users (simply by the current design) to post in their specific device.
Anyway, I might be late to the party and these discussions may have already beat the horse dead, I still love the site for the wealth of information it provides but IMHO the redesign in this aspect borked functionality/ease of use when it comes to "finding" the right place to go to post a new thread.
/
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Did you try the Search Plus feature?
Wood Man said:
Did you try the Search Plus feature?
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I've looked at it, but it doesn't really remediate the issues I mention above.
While it can help you "find" answers to questions, google is just as capable in most cases of directing you to the relevant threads on XDA.
The problem is not really where to go to find answers, as much as it is to ask a question.
It seems the way the site is now structured as far as indexing/lookup is concerned is more of a "knowledgebase" then a forum.
I'm not sure if that is necessarily a bad thing - but it is different from how things used to be and for long time users it makes things a bit more difficult to adapt.
This is going to be a moaning post, which falls in line with the topics of discussion in the forum description.
Like many of you most likely, I've been lurking, contributing if it makes sense, and relying on XDA for a long time. It feels like a decade by now. This is the most frustrated I've ever been with the Search functionality of the website. It's so bad, I'm writing this post, but also I feel like competing sites (there are none in reality) could lure forum users away with nothing more than an intuitive, easy to use search functionality.
For example, every single time you go to search something, XDA for some reason defaults to searching Everything. If I'm in a specific forum, and sought out that forum (which is the only way to get to something that you specifically need given the search won't produce it), why would I need to search the entire site seconds after entering that particular forum. I have not found a setting to allow me to set the default search to search specific forum and recall the previous site iteration as having the ability to easily within a click or two, search the forum itself for a specific thread.
Secondly, searching for items that have more than a single word is pointless. The query results are from all over the site, and largely not related. Additionally, the search results apparently don't believe in offering sort or filter capabilities post submission of a search query.
Third, do you really not follow a boolean logic? Taking the aforementioned example, if I use double quotes to signify a specific string or phrase, the query result is blank.
I'm going to keep adding to this because later because I need to go, but I loved this site, and I want to ensure this feedback is out there. Please for the love of god, do something about this.
Unfortunately, I tried to search for the ability to provide feedback directly and was unable to come up with anything. I shouldn't have to build a Google CSE or run a 'site:' search to produce a specific result on this website.
Just a couple of years ago, I could come into the site, enter a model number or SKU or something specific like that and immediately be able to access specific forums or threads. I just tried to search for SM-990 and nothing but Motorola results were produced. What?