Develop Bugs

[REQUEST]An open request to rom devs for a finished AOSP ROM

Hello,
Having used lox devs dev Eclair AOSP ROM I've realised how lacking the Hero is in its standard form - general speed of use and just the way the system feels.
In short I love using 2.0 with none of the HTC bloatware, its a shame as I don't think the ROM devs think there is much call for this - Hopefully in this thread everyone who agrees will shout up.
Obviously the dev one has its issues - sync, random crashes on phone function, etc, but I'm happy to work with it if I know there is development coming.
It would be great for one of the devs to take the project on board, knowing there is community support for this. I'm sure I'm not the only person who feels this way.
Unfortunately I'm no way programmingly minded and struggle with linux at the best of times, never mind thinking about coding, but I'd donate/support/playtest any work in progress clean android *latest version* ROM for the Hero.

Sorry...subtract 1 No. I am not an android Dev..but have been drinking Leffe

anybody got anything to add to this?

i will request Lox_Dev to update this rom when he gets some free time as i know he is working hard to get Eclair 2.1 done. I and a friend of mine is using 2.0 AOSP for last 5 days and none of us is complaining with basic features. all look good.
just 2-3 things need to be fixed.
* cant set own wallpaper as album/gallery app isnt there.
* bluetooth pairs but cant send/receive files
* camera works upto 3 megapixel.
otherwise i dont find any major problem with AOSP 2.0. i dint face a single hang in 5 days and neither did my friend.

Well, first off all. The current 2.0 / 2.1 builds all run very laggy and crappy. It is as if the video drivers aren't using any acceleration at all or something.
In Lox's 2.0 clean build (which I've used for the past few days) every bit of animation except the lockscreen goes laggy. Scrolling through the menu, opening the menu, opening the notifications... it never goes as smooth as on the 1.5 based ROMS.
I'm in no way complaining, don't get me wrong. I'm very interested in using a stock android experience but so far nothing is working good yet. The 1.6 based tries don't support all the hardware, and the 2.0 / 2.1 based ROMs aren't up to speed.
This is more than understandable ofcourse. The 2.0 / 2.1 based ROMS are based on leaked alpha / beta work which just isn't ready yet, and 1.6 differs too much from the stock android ROM to get all the hardware working OK.
So my hope is that when HTC releases their 2.0 / 2.1 official ROM, we can use it to make a clean vanilla Android 2.x experience which runs as snappy as our current HTC 1.5 versions, and still with all the hardware working OK. Maybe even with a guide how to 'backup' or transfer the googlebits from the official 2.x ROM.
A clean 2.x ROM, but with the googlebits, and with the HTC music player + album + camera + browser... now that would be awesome.
Starting a thread like this isn't really much use right now, since we only have buggy laggy 2.x bits from a leaked ROM to get stuff working.

dipje said:
A clean 2.x ROM, but with the googlebits, and with the HTC music player + album + camera + browser... now that would be awesome.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Ha, ridiculous. Seriously I don't get people's issue with Sense UI, if you don't want it fine.. But deal with the fact that you're losing HTC apps as well.

kwiksand said:
But deal with the fact that you're losing HTC apps as well.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
omg how am I ever gonna live without a laggy browser, calendar, contact list or sms application?

It would be the best thing ever, IMO.
And nobody needs to be offended, those who want sense UI can just use that

Exactly! So stop flooding Hero (HTC) ROM threads with useless crap about wanting a ROM minus Rosie/Sense UI, E2K you've been the worst offender?!?!
You must be happy now that a almost fully functional AOSP ROM's in the wild!

kwiksand said:
Exactly! So stop flooding Hero (HTC) ROM threads with useless crap about wanting a ROM minus Rosie/Sense UI, E2K you've been the worst offender?!?!
You must be happy now that a almost fully functional AOSP ROM's in the wild!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Happy?? I am more happy than ever! (regarding the hero)
Also very thankful that the developers got their sh*t together and are pumping out roms like real pro's.
THe devs should be called "hero" not this 2007 pos A7200 cellphone

kwiksand said:
Ha, ridiculous. Seriously I don't get people's issue with Sense UI, if you don't want it fine.. But deal with the fact that you're losing HTC apps as well.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
wtf is wrong with stating what would be a nice combo in my opinion? I even started by saying that for now there should be no hope and 'just requesting it to the devs' right now is bonkers. When a good HTC 2.x ROM comes along the devs have something to play with, until then this thread was useless... and still you gonna call that ridiculous? Your even saying that to a user who has tried a vanilla ROM for the whole of 30 hours before running back to my nandroid backup with MCR on it.
Go troll somewhere else please, or at least read the posts carefully and whole you're going to attack.

[q] Pros and Cons of Sense and No-Sense on Desire?

Hi all!
As per topic, actually.
I hope this is the right section to ask for this, as I want to make it specific for the Desire ROMs and not all the ROMs with Sense or No Sense.
I plan on getting an HTC Desire and having a custom ROM right away (that is, after going through all the required process of rooting etc.).
My question is the following:
What should I ask myself when choosing between a Sense and No Sense ROM(other than the UI experience)?
While doing a research through the forum I found some answers, however nothing was too informative. E.g. I found out that if one wants to play games in a custom ROM he should go for a No Sense ROM.
Is it because Sense ROM affects the performance or is it because of the way its settings are that does not interact with games well.
Does this happen to other kinds of applications as well?
Is there anything else that one needs to keep in mind when chosing for a ROM when it comes to Sense or No Sense?
Why go for Sense and why for No Sense?
I realize this is too much to ask, but as I searched through the forum and did not find anything specific, I believe that this will be helpful information for Desire newbies like me.
Thank you!

This may not answer your question in the depth you asked but from my own experience after using roms with and without sense I prefer the ones with sense.
Did not find any appreciable difference in speed but prefered sense roms from a purely aesthtic point of view.
Best idea is to get the phone and try different roms to see what you like. There are so many roms and everybody has their favourite that you will not get a definative answer.

The fun part is, once you are rooted you can test all ROMs and see which work best for you.
You can either spend hours trying to find an answer to this particular question or you can just try a couple of them and see what works best for you.
Sense comes with a couple of wonderful apps, which you lose (like the FM-radio) when you use a non-Sense ROM.
I don't need them per se, so I am currently on WhiteXperience, which is non-sense.
This ROM is extremely fast with low battery usage, which makes it great for playing games.
New ROMs come out every day and they get better and better each day.

A Thread with a question I also want to know since several weeks
If I get a no Sense ROM do I lose all HTC specific programs.
Widgets, ok, no issue. I don't use them either. Use Launcher Pro.
But programs, especially the mail client, how's that? Do I have to search a new one from the Market? I don't think there is one available as powerful as the HTC one.

I prefer using the sense roms cause I get the sense dialer which I much prefer over the stock Android dialer, including the contacts manager. However in using adw launcher as it feels much faster than the sense interface
Sent from my HTC Desire using XDA App

Rymon said:
E.g. I found out that if one wants to play games in a custom ROM he should go for a No Sense ROM.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I've not heard that one before! I've no problems playing games with a Sense ROM.
Regards,
Dave

I love sense and can't do without it now. Sense-less roms feel really empty and boring to me now.

Doesn't really answer your question, but there are a couple ROMs that have the UI portion of sense (i believe its called rosie) removed and then had the dialer/contacts/etc ported to work with stock or alternate launchers. Iirc Cyanogen is one like this... might help you out going that route too..
As to the actual question.. I have noticed that non-sense roms do seem to be a noticeably faster, but its usually cause most are highly tweaked for increased performance and usually include a2sd+. A lot of the sense roms are also tweaked as well, but usually include the froyo a2sd, which doesn't seem to be as much of a performance boost. Onto of which most of the tweaked to the sense based roms are for UI improvements, themes, etc. And not as hardcore performance based...
Just my 2 cents... IMHO... Take it as you will
Sent from my HTC Desire using XDA App

sbdags said:
I love sense and can't do without it now. Sense-less roms feel really empty and boring to me now.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I had a Motorola Milestone previously so I'm used to the stock Android.. if you want something with a little more umph, I really recommend LauncherPro (and LP Plus). My fav launcher by far!
Sent from my HTC Desire using XDA App

mikeandjaimie said:
Doesn't really answer your question, but there are a couple ROMs that have the UI portion of sense (i believe its called rosie) removed and then had the dialer/contacts/etc ported to work with stock or alternate launchers. Iirc Cyanogen is one like this... might help you out going that route too..
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Just an fyi, but CyanogenMod is most assuredly *nothing* like this.
CyanogenMod is based on AOSP Android, but has been significantly customized from the original source. It owes nothing to the Sense frameworks that HTC have built into their own version of Android.
Regards,
Dave

foxmeister said:
Just an fyi, but CyanogenMod is most assuredly *nothing* like this.
CyanogenMod is based on AOSP Android, but has been significantly customized from the original source. It owes nothing to the Sense frameworks that HTC have built into their own version of Android.
Regards,
Dave
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Sorry yeah I worded it wrong.. I should have said sense-less ROMs that have some of the sense components ported. My bad, but thanks for pointing it out.
Sent from my HTC Desire using XDA App

Thank you everyone!
I will follow your advice and try out different ROMS of both UIs (Sense and non-Sense) and see which of the two I prefer.
I will most probably start with a Sense ROM and if I stumble upon any issues I will try the other one as well.
Can you please point me towards two or three ROMs of each UI that I should definitely try out?
As for the battery efficiency of the ROM I do not worry. I have stumbled upon a couple of threads that IMHO give the best advice I could get when it comes to managing several phone settings in order to reduce power drainage.

Try this one, you can remove Sense very quickly if you want, but Sense Dialer will stay, which is better anyway.
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=741661

You wouldn't go wrong trying the Cyanogenmod ROM, its a non-sense one, but as stated before, very tweaked.
As regards one of the other posters, an excellent replacement for the mail app is K-9, you'll find it in the market, and its been my mail app of choice since I owned my G1, it handles IMAP very well, though I've not tried it with an exchange server, so can't comment there
Hope that helps

Tried many sense and non-sense roms. This is what I found:
HTC Sense roms have:
- Better Gallery, faster and with better zoom
- Better Dialer, faster, sleek and functional
- Better and nicer graphics for contacts
- Better camera application. Touch focus (coming to non-sense), better autofocus
- Better integrated Clipboard and selection mode
- Some other HTC applications for News, Twitter, Plurk, Facebook, Weather, etc. But these can be replaced more easily
- Some nice widgets for the above applications. They have a very nice graphic appearance
- (subjective) better memory management, I find AOSP builds too aggressive in some regards
- Nice touches like usb-plugging choice, Bluetooth FTP, etc
- Medium-high auto brightness levels
For Non-Sense roms you get:
- many kernels to choose, OC, UV, etc. At least until htc froyo source is released
- crazy high benchmarks if you OC
- much more configurability, mainly for the interface
- configurable Auto-brightness
- system wide equalizer
- some stuff I don't use (so I don't know well) like OpenVPN
- WiFi N ?
- Cyanogen Renders (in some)
- many new tweaks and releases every week
personally I really don't mind the bugs and quirks you sometimes get in AOSP roms, but I can't really live with the available alternatives to the HTC Gallery, Dialer and Camera.
Anyway these are some of the possible replacements for HTC stuff:
- Email client -> Maildroid
- Dialer -> Dialer One
- Gallery -> .... uuuuhmmmm .... errrr..... either Stock 3D Gallery or Just Pictures. They are both crap in my opinion
- Camera -> Vignette or just use stock Nexus One
- Home Launcher -> Many to choose
- News -> Feedr
- Twitter -> official client

HTC sense (or similar), sane interface for the Galaxy..

Hello all,
I have my Galaxy for almost 2 weeks and the more I use it the more I realize that the Samsung interface is nothing short of idiotic. Today I compared it with an HTC device some colleagues at work and what I thought were just pure Android OS stupidity it turned out to be Samsung's
Just an example: In the dialer application, if I start typing a contact name, I get a match ONLY if I type the first letters -- I get no match in the middle of a word.
Also, when a match is found, I am not presented with all the phone numbers for that contact, only the first one.
That's _really_ bad -- even my old Omnia running WM6.5 can do better than that.
Needless to say same thing worked as expected on the HTC running Froyo.
So, the question is: Is there any custom ROM (ideally 2.2) that doesn't suffer from this stupidity ? Or -- even better -- is HTC Sense (or a similiar, sane interface) ported to the Galaxy ? Or maybe even a vanilla 2.2 GUI ?
Thanks...

do a market search on 'launcherpro'. it's as good if not better than htc sense (with all the built in widgets), at least until the newer version of htc sense from desire hd comes out.
this is not really android rom dev, is it?

As this seems to be a dialer problem for example, check out the alternative ones from the market, one may cover what you miss...
For example dialer one. It's at least way faster than the stock one...
Oh, and +1 to LauncherPro (Plus), unless you use Touchwiz widgets.

zenkinz said:
do a market search on 'launcherpro'. it's as good if not better than htc sense (with all the built in widgets), at least until the newer version of htc sense from desire hd comes out.
this is not really android rom dev, is it?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Thanks for the tip, will look into it.
Well, I'm not so sure it's not rom dev since I'm not sure how much TouchWiz is embedded with ROM, if there are "vanilla" ROMs without TouchWiz or other cooked ROMs with other (better) interfaces, etc. etc.
So you tell me if it's rom dev or if it's not
P.S. And yes, "HTC Sense" was just an example, maybe not the best. Maybe I should have said "a saner interface than TouchWiz"...

the dialer found in froyo rom will be able to search in the middle of the name, instead of just starting.
you can run launcherpro over touchwiz although you probably want to remove the touchwiz widgets as they are not accessible outside of touchwiz. (which means you need to have your rom rooted). But you can't remove touchwiz completely (unless things has changed in the last 1 month) as it's integral component to feature/function beyond shell interface (e.g. you need this if you want to use kies to connect to your galaxy)

zenkinz said:
the dialer found in froyo rom will be able to search in the middle of the name, instead of just starting.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Not sure which Froyo you are talking about, but the test above is on the XXJPH I have installed off this very forum (and seems "ho-hum" in terms of stability on my device).
Anyway, will take a look at LauncherPro -- maybe it will alleviate some of the issues with TouchWiz

zenkinz said:
the dialer found in froyo rom will be able to search in the middle of the name, instead of just starting.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Unfortunately, it isn't. Is there a way to hack it?

Theres already a Bounty for porting HTC Sense/the full ROM to our phones. Search, got around $1000+ between both threads (one over in the other subforums), but we need someone to port it. There is someone who has semi done it, just need him to release it publicly.

if you really want something similar to htc sense then check out this awsome mod from JAguirre1231 here , its the closest thing to sense (at least for now) with azreils sense theme. Or if you want stock android, you can check this which includes stock everything but only 2.1 (no its not a port, it still has touchwiz framework but everything is stock even the phone app) . Hopefully devs are working on cyanogen and once thats out, you will get what you want. until then you can use these
Hope i helped

HTC Sense is consider warez on XDA if it is not on an HTC device. HTC already threatened to sue acouple of developers on the Motorola Droid for porting it.

When I start typing 626 the equivalent for "mam" I get more suggestions.
first is "mama".
I also get a girl with the name "oana" because 626 numbers also equals "oan".
And I get some random guy that it happens to have a number like 07 626 3xxxx

[Q] What would you like the Chefs to make??

As a developer myself, just no in the tech field, I find it helpful to know what other want so that I can produce the best. I'm sure that most of you do this because it's something that YOU personally want and or like. I deeply appreciate the work that has gone into such wonderful ROM's and I can't wait to see more.
As for me, I've tried out RR, CM, SR, Frank, Jager, ASOP, and a few other odds and ends.
It seems to me there should be a blend. A blend between Sense and well....nonsense.
Currently, I'm on the Ultimate ASOP. This ROM has been amazing because of the ability to customize. Like every ROM, there are quirks or just small things that bother me, but it's SOOOO close to greatness, IMHO. I like a lot about a lot of ROMS but if they're lacking Sense then I miss that. If they have Sense, I miss the customizing of the Non Sense. My question is, can the two be made to be CommonSense?
What I'm talking about is a ROM that combines a little bit of the HTC Sense side with the applications and setting and customization of the Non HTC Sense ROMs. For instance, the email application in the Driod root IMHO opinion is much better then the Sense one. You can easily check multiple emails and the default background is back. What if you could have Sense, but change the lock screen to something different and be able to add different themes easily? There are several instances where the two could be combined to make CommonSense. And, if you have some ideas please share!
I guess i'm just looking for ideas from others that I can take a pitch to a Chef along with a few $$$ to make a ROM that'll do just that. Is there anyone else that thinks the same or I am the only one riding the HellaNoSense boat?

check out IncDoes AOSP. but you should have posted in q/a or general for future reference

This incredible forums is in desperate need for vanailla Roms AND ASOP kernels
DESPERATE NEED
VANILLA ROMS ARE THE BEST performing and give the most memory
we have great phones and we havent taken full advantage imo from what i have seen so far

i prefer a sense based rom with virtually every sense component gutted aside from dialer and contacts (and other key vital stuff). most users use launcher pro, yet most devs seem to focus their [sense] work around modified rosie. Which doesnt seem to make a ton of sense to me. im sure the launcher pro dev would allow the use of his work cooked into roms with his permission right?

SLOflatlander said:
i prefer a sense based rom with virtually every sense component gutted aside from dialer and contacts (and other key vital stuff). most users use launcher pro, yet most devs seem to focus their [sense] work around modified rosie. Which doesnt seem to make a ton of sense to me. im sure the launcher pro dev would allow the use of his work cooked into roms with his permission right?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
actually no. LP isnt open source. thats also whay CM uses ADW rather than LP

How about a JD froyo MASH-UP! That wud b hot! You know, cause a phone that won't boot gets the best battery life
Edit: I LOVED SR vanilla, but it's a little long in the tooth... at least for now. I still have issues with AOSP stability. But I haven't flashed anything new in a month so maybe I'm full of it.

DS36 said:
This incredible forums is in desperate need for vanailla Roms AND ASOP kernels
DESPERATE NEED
VANILLA ROMS ARE THE BEST performing and give the most memory
we have great phones and we havent taken full advantage imo from what i have seen so far
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yeap. This.

Minimalism.
Bare bones, minimal special effects, no clutter.
Basically a tiling WM or Openbox layout with basic text menus or no menus with touch commands.
Hopefully I'll be able to get into cooking whenever I get my machine in order. I've been wanting to actually contribute to some coding/hacking projects but I've never found anything of interest that would motivate me... until now :3

BigTSetter said:
... For instance, the email application in the Driod root IMHO opinion is much better then the Sense one. You can easily check multiple emails and the default background is back......
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
FYI: the new Sense lets you multi select in the mail widget...Desire HD/Z

I love sense but need a landscape homescreen! I wish rosie could do this because adw and LP drive me nuts! Currently ruining SR. 3.3.3 but will make the switch when I find something that suits my needs...the reason...I frequently use a car dock and I'm on the road for at least2 hours a day
Sent from my ADR6300 using XDA App

All I would like is someone to modify the bluetooth stack to support bluetooth keyboards (I have an old iGo keyboard).

I'm still hoping for a webOS port even though that's probably not gonna happen ever
Sent from my ADR6300 using XDA App

lexdad86 said:
I'm still hoping for a webOS port even though that's probably not gonna happen ever
Sent from my ADR6300 using XDA App
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Want. I just wish android took more looks from webOS. It is so beautiful!

The look & feel of the new Sense UI (The Desire Z ROM specifically), the fastest and most optimized speed possible, working camera w/ 720p video (only thing wrong with Desire Z ROM, imo), lots of free memory, clear of all the bloatware apps, aaaaaaaaaaaaand.... Ability to quickly change theme settings (transparency, selection colors, etc).
Oh, and great dev support.

ToyTank said:
How about a JD froyo MASH-UP! That wud b hot! You know, cause a phone that won't boot gets the best battery life
.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Bahahaha!!

DS36 said:
This incredible forums is in desperate need for vanailla Roms AND ASOP kernels
DESPERATE NEED
VANILLA ROMS ARE THE BEST performing and give the most memory
we have great phones and we havent taken full advantage imo from what i have seen so far
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
http://www.droidforums.net/forum/lithiummod/89559-lithium-mod-returns-more-devices.html
Sent from my Incredible using XDA App

My perfect rom would be:
Sense based Vanilla rom
htc keyboard
htc camera
htc gallery
htc contacts
either HTC facebook or contacts syncable with market facebook.
emmc working properly
adw built in
customizations avalable in cyanogen's latest rom
power widget built in to notification pull down.
figure out how to change the answer/silence to tabs
reboot option in power menu
6 signal bars
htc battery icon with %
keep the colored sense settings menu icons.
tab or rotary music controls (hidden when not in use)
thats all i can think of.

Having tried just about every ROM out there (and a couple of them a number of times) I think the problem I run into is there are little things here and there that I like about each.
All of our tastes are different, thus we like different things. Some people like the circle battery mod, some people like the rotary lock screen, etc etc...
What would be really cool is if there were a way to easily choose the specific mods you wanted... kinda like picking out options on a new car.
Ultimately, I think the answer is a dev that is willing to build you a custom ROM to your exact specifications. Of course, this would come with a price tag, but hey, it's exactly what you wanted (and it would be worth it IMO... any takers LOL).
In the meantime, I'm trying to figure out how to get what it is that I want and experiment. It's been fun, frustrating at times, and I still don't have everything I like, but at least we have lots of options to choose from, and I'm learning something new in the process

Is it not possible to build a Rom with a bunch of on off switches that allow you to select sense or no sense , or give you the option for circle battery vs stock ....
IMO.... this would be the ULTIMATE Rom .....
Sent from my ADR6300 using XDA App

@ The OP: Maybe you should initiate a poll.

[Q] A Crapload Of Questions

So yeah, I have a crapload of questions.
I recently asked about rooting and keeping HTC Sense. In retrospect, I don't think I'll need Sense, I just tried out AppLauncher, and I have to say, I think I'm sold on it. I'm just wondering what exactly HTC Sense has? Is there anything it has that I'll really miss? So far the only thing I can think of is the HTC Sense website for a lost phone, backing up data, and the weather widget/FriendStream...though adding Facebook to HTC sense shows all my contacts in the Phone button which is a huge piss off, but meh.
So that being said, I think I'm about ready to give rooting a shot, but now I've been confused with even more things. And the more I read the more I get confused. Especially where I have to downgrade the firmware, I'm wondering if it's still okay to do this, since the guy at Bell told me if I didn't do / get certain updates I'd have to send my phone back to HTC for repair.
There's stock Android, Cyanogen, and it seems like a million other ROMs. Which is the best to use? If I want total customizability, but also good functionality?
Finally, I'm using a Bell-branded Desire Z on the the Bell network. So Whatever I do will need to work okay with it.
As I've said, I'm totally new to this, and I'm scared to hell of bricking my phone since I just signed a contract and don't to shell out $500 bucks for a new one.
There's just so much info on this forum and it's a bit overwhelming/confusing, not that a lot of info is a bad thing, I'm just lost lol.
EDIT: If anything I wrote seems too rambling or doesn't make much sense please specify that and I'll clarify it.

cant help you root your phone but just follow the instructions that the person who writes the threads say. It's not that easy to brick your phone unless you just completely dont follow directions.
1. Downgrade is perfectly fine, it's to allow you to use a certain method to root your phone.
2. Try out different roms to see what you like, it's like asking whats your favorite video game, how can you really choose, some will agree some wont. I personally like the Miui roms which is the iphonelike and android UI mashup. the apps built in are nice on the eyes, the physics of the phones movement is very smooth, it can oc to 1.5ghz, and you can just download a launcher to replace the original if you dont like it.
3. ask the dev's on the thread if your not sure. i have no idea about bell, but it would seem that it shouldnt have any affect on rooting your phone, just maybe the radio but that is different then rooting or flashing roms.
P.S. you might miss the small things from Sense like, it looks nice, turns on fast, widgets, the dialer to search contact, incoming calls doesnt disrupt navigation, and it's original live wallpaper lol.

So are you saying that I can't search by contact in the default phone app? That kind of sucks.
I guess more of what I'm asking is just based on people's experiences what the best route to go is. I know there are different tastes, I'm more concerned about reliability, so I'm sure people could help with a ROM choice with that criteria.
So downgrading firmware won't affect phone performance? And can it still be reverted to stock in case the phone needs warranty repair? Just trying to cover all my bases.
And thanks, I'll ask around in the deg thread.

Bloodlvst said:
So are you saying that I can't search by contact in the default phone app? That kind of sucks.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
There are usually apps available that provide Sense functionality to non-Sense ROMs. In regards to the above, you can try DialerOne.

To help you with the ROMs think of them in terms of how different Linux OS's are setup (if you know a bit about this).
You have the base OS's such as Cyanogen. Now some one doesn't like the look of that so they change the Frameworkres.apk to give it defferent colors, transparencies, icons and so on. Now they want a few extra apps to be included in the install so they add them to the /system/app directory or add a /data directory. Repackage it and now they have a custom OS called WINNING ROM (or whatever). These are easy to do and can be completed in a matter of minutes since there aren't any big alterations in the base coding of the OS. This is why you see a lot of ROMs that look like Cyanogens and the developer usually (and should be) states what version of some one elses ROM it's based off of.
Then you have ROMs that tweak certain parameters for speed or add other functionalities to a ROM such as a custom kernel, audio/video codecs, a2ext, compcache/linux swap, and others. Plus a complete custom UI (launcher), port parts of other ROMs such as Sense to work on their ROM, and toms of other things. These take days, weeks, or even months and usually have release cycles and updates. Cyanogen, Virtuous, Enomther, Villain, and a few others make up these ROMs.
Hope that helps with your ROM quest. It can be a bit overwhelming but remember to ask, ask, ask, and then ask some more and also read, at least the OP (original post) and a few pages past that. Some people may get upset and flame you for it but most will be glad to help in any way.

If you flash a non-Sense ROM, you will miss the HTC camera app. Its far and away better than the stock Android one, and I haven't found any Market camera apps that measure up, either. Also, the camera button on the Sense builds seems much more responsive than on CM7.
Also, I'm not sure about this, but the Sense ROMs seem to have better or more hardware codecs for playing a wider array of video formats. Lots of the videos I've tried on CM7 and CM6 are only playable using software decoding (on a variety of players, but RockPlayer is my favorite) and end up super laggy (very low frame rate) and audio way out of sync. On stock Sense and Virtuous, those videos play fine, hardware decoding, silky smooth, and audio in sync.
There are some aesthetic stuff, like HTC does some pretty significant theme changes for Sense, and you will lose customizations like the HTC Skins. And you will lose the HTC widgets (like the clocks) and apps (stocks, weather). But as mentioned, there are lots of Market apps that pretty well simulate many of the Sense apps and widgets, or are very suitable replacements.

Thanks for the detailed replies guys.
KCRic, thanks for list of known ROMs that's basically what I wanted to know, and your Linux flavour comparison helped too
Redpoint, I'm not sure how often I'd ever use the camera anyway...when I get home I'll have to find some screens of the default camera. That being said, I see your ROM is Virtuous. Is that a Sense-like ROM in case I agree with you on the ca?era app?
Thanks!

Bloodlvst said:
Redpoint, I'm not sure how often I'd ever use the camera anyway...when I get home I'll have to find some screens of the default camera. That being said, I see your ROM is Virtuous. Is that a Sense-like ROM in case I agree with you on the ca?era app?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Wow, you don't use the camera? I use it all the time, for those "spur of the moment" snapshots, or to quickly take a pic that I can MMS to a friend or family.
Yes, Virtuous is mostly stock Sense, but with some optimizations and with some extra features added. Its also based on the 1.85 ROM, one of the more recent stock Sense versions.
Guides, links for just about everything you can ever think of is here:
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=916431
BTW, be sure to click the "Thanks" button if you found responses to be helpful!

ROM LIST
Sense ROMS
Gingerbread - Android 2.3
Shokouhi 2.0
Desire S G2 Port Sense2.1
Probably others.
Froyo - Android 2.2
Virtuous
Stock ROMS
Gingerbread - Android 2.3
CyanogenMod 7
Stock Gingerbread 1.7
iceandfire 1.7
Pyromod 1.2
GingerVillian 1.5
meXdroidMod
Froyo - Android 2.2
CyanogenMod 6
Others of unimportance now.
The Other ROMS
Gingerbread - Android 2.3
MIUI (The 2.3 one)
Froyo - Android 2.2
MIUI (The 2.2 one)
LiquidVillian (Or whatever it was called.)
I probably just wasted 10 minutes of my life doing this, but meh, it was something to do.
Now to kill myself since I had to listen to Nickelback through it. Damn 4Music.

I would hardly call CM7 (and ROMs based on it) "Stock".
Although "Non-Sense" is not a very good sounding name for that category, also.

redpoint73 said:
I would hardly call CM7 (and ROMs based on it) "Stock".
Although "Non-Sense" is not a very good sounding name for that category, also.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
AOSP Based.
There should be 2 categories. CM Based and AOSP.
But I don't think there are any AOSP ROMs. Which I hate, cos when people say they've built a stock ROM, but it's based on CyanogenMod.

redpoint73 said:
Wow, you don't use the camera? I use it all the time, for those "spur of the moment" snapshots, or to quickly take a pic that I can MMS to a friend or family.
Yes, Virtuous is mostly stock Sense, but with some optimizations and with some extra features added. Its also based on the 1.85 ROM, one of the more recent stock Sense versions.
Guides, links for just about everything you can ever think of is here:
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=916431
BTW, be sure to click the "Thanks" button if you found responses to be helpful!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
So I'm guessing no one has cooked up a weird ROM that is like Cyanogen with the Sense camera app lol.
Anywho, I really only have a couple of questions now.
Would you recommend Gingerbread or Froyo? I'm guessing Gingerbread probably runs better / is better than Froyo, but it's hard to say.
Also, how easy is it to restore my phone to factory condition if I need to?
And finally, I read the wiki, it says to make sure I have the windows USB drivers installed...do I just throw those in my windows drivers folder?
EDIT: Wanted to add, the instructiosn for recovering to stock doesn't include the version. So any help there is appreciated.
Or you know, if any of you would be so kind to PM me / add me to IM if you've done this on a Bell phone in Canada that would be awesome too

The drivers go in your Android SDK folder, where ever adb resides. At least on XP and Vista that's the case - I'm not sure if the adb issue was ever resolved in Windows 7. You could always use VM linux or dual boot linux if you like, it's much easier imo. Wubi works too I think.
When it comes to Froyo vs. Gingerbread it's literally like a linux in the sense that one is completely stable and well known by this point (Froyo) an the other is bleeding edge, not stable at times, some things are just not compatible unless you port them, and peoples knowledge base on it isn't as thorough.
I've never returned this phone to stock, which I assume you mean s-on and no superuser permissions. So I have no idea how difficult it is, though I do know you need to make sure you 100% know what you're doing before attempting it - especially if you have s-off. It's a pandoras box if you mess it up.

Ah okay, I'll definitely stick with Froyo for now then. I've always stayed 1 version behidn with Fedora lol.
I did get the drivers working, made my gold card, about to downgrade my firmware.
Are the instructions the same for 1.84.666.2 ?
Edit: Successfully rooted. Now time to find a new ROM. thanks again for all the help. Quesiton though, I have no HSDPA icon anymore...do I need a new "radio" or something?

No, it will do that and some ROMs don't have either the 'H' or the 3G' icon - just depends on the developer. You can still flash a different radio - anyone listed in the G2 radio sticky will work, flash a few and see what works best for you.
There's also a radio version/.ril file issue being debated so you might check that thread too and flash the zip provided just to be safe. I think it's in the G2 questions forum but I can't remember.