Develop Bugs

Store battery or Use it?

I have 2 batteries for my new TP2. Is it better to store one and then use it when the working battery expires (a year or so in the future?) or keep both charged alternately? Any advice on charging practice to get the most out of the batteries would be appreciated. Thank you.

for me it is better to use the batteries alternatively as the battery discharges over time and this will kill the battery.

If you got the second one to extend the daily charge capacity, then charge it and alternate.
If you got the second one just to eventually use, then store it about 50% charged, wrapped up, in the refrigerator. It will last for years that way. Warm it up some before unwrapping it.

Your 2nd battery will lose capacity slower if you leave it charged at ~40% (though I've never heard anyone claim LiPo lasts longer at lower temperatures) and don't use it, but to buy a spare battery NOW for use LATER was a bad idea. LiIon (of which LiPo is a sub-genre) batteries lose capacity over time, regardless of whether they're used or not.

Yep, might as well alternate between the two of them (weekly?) because they're both ticking down. And as said, if you're going to store one of them, store it at 40-50% charged at room temperature (20-25c).

Hi guys,
don't tell my digital camera batteries about this thread. They are 5 years old (both Konica-Minolta and noname) and I rarely used them. They still offer pretty good battery time.
Fact is: Lithium-Ion batteries will loose capacity by using them. They make about 500 to 1000 duty cylcles, after which you will notice the lower capacity. They should never be deep discharged and can be charged whenever you like. Only the first few charging cylcles should completly fill them.
Storage is best at about half loaded capacity and moderate temperature. This will keep them operational much longer than when being used. As mentioned this works for my batteries already 5 years!
Andre

http://www.batteryuniversity.com/print-partone-19.htm

Does the official Sprint 2600mAh battery suffer from the "charging bug"

So most people are familiar with the seeming "bug" that if you slap in a huge extended battery (Seido 3600mAh one comes to mind) if you are charging via USB it would only charge up to the 50-60% mark
I'm seriously thinking about getting a sprint extended battery - but does this bigger battery suffer from the same "problem"
I know this one is Lithium Polymoer instead of Li Ion... does that change anything?
All I know is that I refuse to take my battery out every 24 or 36 hours to "wall charge" it directly.
Thanks in advance for you input!
J

Mine has been charging perfectly... have had it two days, and it's been great

thanks for the quick reply -- I'll try and pick one up here in the next few days. I'm sure I can take it back if the huge back or if i had any charging issues
would be nice to go 24 hours and not have to worry about the battery at all

I have loved it... i have been able to actually use my phone.... and i even had them credit me $20 for buying the battery

You could have posted in the thread in this section, just a few posts down. But to answer your question, I have not had any issues yet. I know it drops by 3-4% a little quick (30 minutes - 1 hour) but that is the only major drop I see.

accelerus said:
So most people are familiar with the seeming "bug" that if you slap in a huge extended battery (Seido 3600mAh one comes to mind) if you are charging via USB it would only charge up to the 50-60% mark
I'm seriously thinking about getting a sprint extended battery - but does this bigger battery suffer from the same "problem"
I know this one is Lithium Polymoer instead of Li Ion... does that change anything?
All I know is that I refuse to take my battery out every 24 or 36 hours to "wall charge" it directly.
Thanks in advance for you input!
J
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Click to collapse
Li-Po is actually not going to change anything except that you can put more cells in the same size battery, therefore increasing the length between charges.

Most of the LI-Ion batteries used in phones are LI-po now adays anyways. The orignial evo batteries are. and most of the extended batteries are as well.

skydeaner said:
Most of the LI-Ion batteries used in phones are LI-po now adays anyways. The orignial evo batteries are. and most of the extended batteries are as well.
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Actually, they haven't used Li-Ion batteries in most consumer electronics for several years but the name has become a generic descriptor for an entire family of cells which include LiPos.
The complete name for LiPo is lithium-ion polymer and they differ from lithium-ion cells in several ways including:
The electrolyte in a Li-Ion cell is a gel (liquid) while the electrolyte in a LiPo cell is a solid polymer.
The layers in a Li-Ion cell need to be tightly compressed so they're typically rolled and housed in a tight-fitting cylindrical case, but the layers in a LiPo cell don't require that compression which is why they can be manufactured in that handy flat form factor so easily.
The nominal working voltage of Li-Ion cells is 3.6V and it's 3.7V for LiPo cells.
LiPo cells have a higher energy density (capacity/weight) than Li-Ion cells.
LiPo cells can be charged and discharged at significantly higher rates than Li-Ion cells.
The bottom line is any small consumer electronics battery pack which is flat and square and is marked as 3.7V (or a multiple of that number for multi-cell series-wired packs) is a LiPo pack regardless of what it says on the pack or in the literature.
Pete

I have owned both batteries and I'm quite familiar with the bug OP is referring to. I can say unequivocally this battery has the same issues the 3500mah Seidio battery does. If you charge this battery, while the phone is on, to max and then unplug, you will watch your charge drop from full to in the 60s in the first hour or two. The drain then tapers off significantly at that point.
I haven't really had an opportunity to put this one through it's paces yet and it may stabilize over time. I'm thinking that this new one might provide the same amount of battery life as the Seidio 3500mah one due to this bug.
EDIT: See my post on the following page. The battery/system seems to have calibrated itself.

You mean to tell me that this battery was a waste of money for me? If so, let me know. It will go back tomorrow

Strange, I don't have this issue at all and I've had the battery for almost a week. It tends to drain quickly to 95% then level out.
Sent from my HTC Evo 4G using XDA App.

SpezXVII said:
Strange, I don't have this issue at all and I've had the battery for almost a week. It tends to drain quickly to 95% then level out.
Sent from my HTC Evo 4G using XDA App.
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My second charge drained to about 60% just like the first. I just pulled it off the charger for the third time early this morning and I am not noticing the drain anymore. I'm thinking it must have calibrated itself.
I've been off the charger for 1 hour 50 mins and I still have 93% remaining!
This is much more like the stock battery. If it continues to act this way, this battery beats the Seidio one by a mile. It's been a couple months since I've used the EVO. Has something been changed in the CyanogenMod Supersonic kernel to support extended batteries?

Shouldn't it be draining slower than stock battery?

I ahve the Seidio battery and I have never seen the battery drop to 60 percent or anything else like what people are saying. I am on CM 6 RC1 but even with any of the other dozen ROMs I have never had an issue. If my battery dropped to 60 percent a short time after unplugging it I would have sent it back the same day.

I charged my battery from 5% to full last night via usb charge. I pulled it this morning at 7:00 and it dropped to 93% quick mainly because it was on the charger well after it had reached 100%. Since 7 am Its dropped as it should. Im currently at 71% 8 1/2 hours later. So I wouldnt say all of these batteries have the 3500 seidio issue. What rom is everyone whos having the issue running?

They may have fixed something in the kernel recently to avoid this. Look up the old threads about the 3500mah battery. The battery calibration issues were universal.
Sent from my PC36100 using XDA App

looneylu said:
Shouldn't it be draining slower than stock battery?
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The EVO stops charging at 100% and will not charge until it drains back to about 90%. The phone will continue to show "full" until you pull the plug. It will then show the true charge level.
Sent from my PC36100 using XDA App

illogic6 said:
The EVO stops charging at 100% and will not charge until it drains back to about 90%. The phone will continue to show "full" until you pull the plug. It will then show the true charge level.
Sent from my PC36100 using XDA App
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Thanks for clearing that up. I didn't read your previous post, I guess

So do you guys suggest to get this instead of the Seidio ?

Someone take a logcat dump and look at the battery parameters of charging/not charging and you'll know if they've fixed the issue or not.
The meter will self adjust to the 1500Mah based on voltage and you think you'll get a full charge but you won't. Slapping it into an external battery charger after "fully" charging it thru the evo will open your eyes to the issue.
Here's hoping, now there's a sprint official "OEM" class extended battery that they'll get HTC to compile in additional battery drivers other than just the 1500mah one it shipped with.
Sorry folks, if you can't charge it externally, you're not going to get the FULL capability of the battery. There are ways to tricking it into taking more. Charge it fully with phone on, unplug, power it off, charge some more, unplug power on, charge more, etc.
This will continue to add just a little bit more to help bring it up, but you'll never get it full unless you can charge externally or HTC adds devices.
You can pull the source code yourself and confirm this info. You can also confirm the issue still exists with an external charger.

the truth about HTC extended batteries which claim same size , higher capacity

Under mango or one of the firmware updates which had been updated recently , u will see yr battery saver is fluctuating , at one time saying u have a 1 day, while another time it says u only 2 hours on a reasonably fuller charge.
there is a problem with HTC original batteries, rather i will say a safety regulation after recent incidents with battery safety
yr htc only charges up to 85% level even though the phone indicator shows 100%
when u unplug it from the charger, it immediately drains and stays at 80%.
THis is likely why the HTC phones have a shorter battery life, whether its android or windowsphone 7
this is not a defective battery, its made intentionally by HTC for 2 reasons 1) safety , 2)battery longevity ,the safety mechanism built in stops charging it to 100%, thus overcharging, overcharging means the battery is out thru stress which may pose a hazard. if a battery is fully charged to true 100 % , it poses a hazard if one of the pins in the phone connectors break. apparently this pin tells the charger or the phone not to charge anymore once reaching 100%. there is a possibility that if this pin breaks, the phone will overcharge and pose a safety hazard. So this is why HTC batteries dont charge to true 100% and this particular pin is tweaked to full charge to only 80%
wheareas, mugen batteries ect do not have this safety regulation or charging limit although they are safe to use, so they seem to last 20% more than stock HTC battery because they fully charge to 100%.
Mugen or other reputed aftermarket batteries are more likely to wear out sooner than stock batteries unless depending on the quality of the battery..
in order to get yr HTC battery to full charge it u need to bump charge it.bump charging is a technique to fully charged the battery closer to its real capacity
to bump charge
1) fully charge the battery from 20% to 100% , as indicated by the phone OS
2) turn off the charger, turn on again, u will notice the phone charges again even though its 100% full for 1/2 a minute. wait for it to fully charge
3) repeat the above step 2) for 10 times
4)use a timer plug to simplify the process. Set the timer plug to on/off every minute for 10 times. u need to get a digital timer for this purpose with mutiple timer settings

Magpir said:
yr htc only charges up to 85% level even though the phone indicator shows 100%
when u unplug it from the charger, it immediately drains and stays at 80%.
THis is likely why the HTC phones have a shorter battery life, whether its android or windowsphone 7
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Interesting. I noticed this with my HTC Mozart; battery indiactor drops one bar (to 80-85%) as soon as I take it off charge. Always assumed it was a WP7 thing - like it was drawing a lot of current.
Where did you get this info from? Looks like I'll be ordering a new (non-HTC) battery asap!

If it's true i won't buy a plug timer but a new battery, not from HTC...at least i hope it's true caus my battery capacity sucks and that gives me hopes, enjoying my hd7 more than a half day without plugging it (when it's possible)...so nuff thanks for the tip.
Sent from my HD7 T9292 using XDA Windows Phone 7 App

Funny, I have always done this with every device (maybe not the x 10 repeat!). never knoew that was the reason though thanks!!

not only HTC, there are couple of other devices like samsung galaxy ect

now u know why they claim mugen and other aftermarket batteries last longer...
mugen 1500 mah battery with the same size as the stock 1230 mah batt>
thats bull..because a 1500 mah battery looks much bigger ... the samsung omnia 7 has a 1500 mah battery and its 30% larger than than the HD7 battery....

Aphasaic2002 said:
Interesting. I noticed this with my HTC Mozart; battery indiactor drops one bar (to 80-85%) as soon as I take it off charge. Always assumed it was a WP7 thing - like it was drawing a lot of current.
Where did you get this info from? Looks like I'll be ordering a new (non-HTC) battery asap!
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thats because the battery stops charging once it reaches 85%
u may have heard of the HTC bump charging technique. thats what this si all about , but u need to do it everyday, so get a timer plug and leave it to do its job overnight everyday
the best is to use a digital programmable timer plug .

Ok, had a google and looks like your post is only partially true:
http://phandroid.com/2010/12/25/you...is-lying-to-you-and-its-not-such-a-bad-thing/
Appears it's an issue with all smartphones, not just HTC! Also bump-charging will dramatically reduce battery life.
As someone in the comments says; why can't the phone just stop charging and switch to running wall power once battery gets to 100%, same as laptops? I assume this is what Apple do, as the iPhone doesn't suffer from the same issue.

Interesting because I have no problems with my battery doing that running Mango beta 7712 on my HTC 7 Pro.
The moment I take my battery off once it turns green, it stays at 100% for hours if there's absolutely no activity on it.
I think it's how far you guys are draining your batteries. Ever since I've gotten my phone, only twice did I push the battery lower than 15% charge; once on accident and another to recalibrate it. After that, I never pushed it lower than 15% and made sure to only recharge it after at least a good 20% of usage (days i feared i wouldn't be near a charger and needed full charge).
Granted, I'll add that it maybe be because I swap the battery out every other night with a spare, and if I do so I make sure there's between 50-58% charge left.
No bump charging either.

ScottSUmmers said:
Interesting because I have no problems with my battery doing that running Mango beta 7712 on my HTC 7 Pro.
The moment I take my battery off once it turns green, it stays at 100% for hours if there's absolutely no activity on it.
I think it's how far you guys are draining your batteries. Ever since I've gotten my phone, only twice did I push the battery lower than 15% charge; once on accident and another to recalibrate it. After that, I never pushed it lower than 15% and made sure to only recharge it after at least a good 20% of usage (days i feared i wouldn't be near a charger and needed full charge).
Granted, I'll add that it maybe be because I swap the battery out every other night with a spare, and if I do so I make sure there's between 50-58% charge left.
No bump charging either.
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yes its better to maintain 20% charge .

If u noticed the iPhone batteries wear out faster.
About year or so.

Just to confirm I have used the timer plug technique twice the last 2 days .
This is what I have
30% charge
8 hours since last charge
Moderate usage.
Somehow those who claim to use momax or mugen batteries claim to have the same results above .

the charge-controller is in the phone not the battery.

schranz01 said:
the charge-controller is in the phone not the battery.
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apparently it still the battery...

up for awareness.....

My HD7 doesn't do this. Tried several times even over a 5 minute span keeping the battery indicator in view. It never dropped to 80%.
---------- Post added at 08:57 AM ---------- Previous post was at 08:54 AM ----------
Magpir said:
yes its better to maintain 20% charge .
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Click to collapse
You should not let Li-ION batteries fully discharge, ever. It's good to keep it on a charger whenever you can, than keep it off a charger and let it fully discharge. That wears the battery out.
Also, there's no risk in overcharging the battery because almost all decent phones will stop charging when the battery is full. They know when to stop charging, just like they know when to alert you that the battery is fully-charged (via a notification and/or changing the LED Notification light color).

You actually can overcharge it by exposing a fully charged battery to higher temperatures - putting the phone in direct sunlight or setting it in a car holder in the way of hot air from the heater deflector while using Satnav, for example. In order to avoid these conditions, controllers do prevent batteries from 100% charge. That being said, I don't think there's a standard for marking battery capacity, and an honest manufacturer should put real effective battery assembly capacity accounting for those limitations, not the sum of capacities of included cells. Don't think they do it really.

vangrieg said:
You actually can overcharge it by exposing a fully charged battery to higher temperatures - putting the phone in direct sunlight or setting it in a car holder in the way of hot air from the heater deflector while using Satnav, for example. In order to avoid these conditions, controllers do prevent batteries from 100% charge. That being said, I don't think there's a standard for marking battery capacity, and an honest manufacturer should put real effective battery assembly capacity accounting for those limitations, not the sum of capacities of included cells. Don't think they do it really.
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Yea, its like computer hard drives and flash cards....Formated they never will be the size your quoted or paid for.
I wish there was standards for this and it's only sold on the actuall usable space or time.

N8ter said:
Also, there's no risk in overcharging the battery because almost all decent phones will stop charging when the battery is full. They know when to stop charging, just like they know when to alert you that the battery is fully-charged (via a notification and/or changing the LED Notification light color).
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Click to collapse
It's actually still not good to leave li-ion batteries plugged in when they are fully charged and stopped charging. They will suffer from capacity loss that way as well. Not to mention any heat coming off the device.

Update: i did not bump charge today..
and the old symptom returned again.. draining fast

Has anyone had luck with external batteries?

A week or so ago I got a good deal on a nice solar charger, but was rather surprised at how ineffective it was at charging my Kindle Fire. The charger is basically a 4,000 mAh battery coupled with a 1.4 W solar panel, and puts out 1 A at 5.5 V. The Kindle, has a 4,400 mAh battery and can charge at up to 1.8 A (per the adapter), so I figured the two would be a good match.
Sadly, I only got about a +30% charge for the Kindle while depleting the charger. My first thought was that the 4,000 mAh charger battery really was too good to be true at that price, so I tested it with my phone's external battery charger, and got 2540 mAh of charge plus several hours of trickle charging between batteries.
Doing some research, lithium ion batteries have 80-90% charge/discharge efficiency, and charging efficiency is 97-99%. The charging circuits between the two batteries also must pull from these figures. So, 2,540 mAh and a fair bit of trickle charging seems reasonable for a 4,000 mAh battery to supply another battery. That's 80% minus 660 mAh of wasted charging/other inefficiencies.
Now, came the question of why my Kindle is getting less than half of that. Feeling that the charger was getting warm, I figure that the Kindle is taking advantage of the full amp offered, and perhaps more (I may have to catabolize some cables and rig up my multimeter to be sure). Furthermore, there is no way to charge the Kindle when it's powered off, so you get a constant drain from that (on AC power-management settings, no less).
To test that latter concept, I left my 95% charged Kindle on the charger last night, and it completely drained the charger in about 15 hours. This seems quite high for the power consumption of an idle device, but I'm sure it "thinks" it's on AC and there's little reason to conserve. Which explains why I'm getting such poor performance for my external charger. Or so I think...
All that said, does this mirror other people's experiences?

Battery Health in AccuBattery

I purchased my 5t about 4 weeks ago and the stats in AccuBattery are now showing my capacity at 2930 mah and the health at 89%. If accurate, these are somewhat concerning considering how new the phone is. Anyone else seeing similar stats? I ran AccuBattery on my Nexus 6p and it always seems pretty accurate.

That's the same capacity I get on my phone with AccuBattery. Other people on the OnePlus forums also had the same results so I think that it is probably normal.

I don't trust that application any more (even if I bought it 2 days ago). So i purchased my phone 4 days ago and after the second charge it says 89%.... Many battery applications are useless on the Play Store.

It is a little wonky on certain phones sometimes. Have you done several charge and discharge cycles? I know it definitely won't be too accurate until you run it a few times. Since you said you used it on your 6P though, I'm guessing you know this already. As long as battery life is still good, I guess I wouldn't worry too much.

I run Accubattery on my mine, it says 92% after a couple of weeks. Battery lasts for a full day of heavy use, and then some.
I also ran it on my 2 year old Moto X Style, and it said 51% - and I felt it was telling the truth, since I got about 2hrs SOT from it if i was lucky!

Same for me, showing about ~3000 mAh from the beginning.
It's also showing ~107% on a Nokia 3 of a friend of mine, so I guess you just can't trust the app on that perspective.

lol, guys
ok now, several factors to consider before you jump to conclusions (ive been using accubattery for several months now with great results):
1) your sample size is waaay too small. every scientist/engineer/mathematician, etc out there will tell you that u cant jump to a conclusion based on just two samples. give it some time, use the app regularly for several weeks and only THEN can you make assumptions about the accuracy of the collected data.
2) ive noticed that the final capacity reading is more accurate, the closer a charge cycle is to 100%. which makes sense if you think about current quick charging technologies: they provide high amperage at steady voltage at first up to like 75-85%, then they switch more and more to trickle charge with low amperage. advantages: fill up the battery quickly, but without putting too much wear onto it.
thus: if you just do a quick charge cycle, say from 30-50% then the slope steepness is way higher, thus the calculated capacity will differ. so there is a dilemma: either do large charging cycles with higher wear on the battery, but more accurate capacity data in the end, or do smaller charging cycles with inaccurate data but less wear on the battery.
3) when charging to 100%, dont unplug the phone when it reads 100%! rather check the current charging amperage in accubattery. only when that drops to zero (or -1 mA in my case) is the battery fully charged and ull get a more accurate capacity reading than when stopping the charge when 100% is reached. if you unplug it too early, the capacity calculation will be on the low side
hope this helps!
cheers

jbmc83 said:
your sample size is waaay too small. every scientist/engineer/mathematician, etc out there will tell you that u cant jump to a conclusion based on just two samples.
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Yup, am scientist, can confirm

Same thing happened to me, even after using AccuBattery for a couple of weeks (and thus collecting more than a couple of samples, both Dash charge and "normal") it still showed 89% battery health at around 2940 mAh. Got my phone one month ago.
I don't think there's any problem with the battery itself, especially as it's not just me having this problem.

Maybe the battery is 3000mah and they are lying about it ???

Explyy said:
Same thing happened to me, even after using AccuBattery for a couple of weeks (and thus collecting more than a couple of samples, both Dash charge and "normal") it still showed 89% battery health at around 2940 mAh. Got my phone one month ago.
I don't think there's any problem with the battery itself, especially as it's not just me having this problem.
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what kind of charging cycles did u have? the range i mean...

jbmc83 said:
what kind of charging cycles did u have? the range i mean...
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I'd say 30% of the times 10 to 100%
40% of the times 30/40 to 100%
And the rest just random stuff: 50 to 100, some top ups here and there
This is not scientific data though, that's just what I recall from the couple of weeks I used AccuBattery. I'll try to find a screenshot but I doubt I have any.
I reinstalled it today and from a single 14 to 80% charge it gave me ~2930 mAh and 89% health. I'm on OOS 5.0.2 stable, will try the app for some time and share my results (more scientific this time)

After several weeks of use, the reading is still constant at 86% ~ 2827mAh. Not sure what to think. As previously mentioned the first 5t I purchased and returned for the 128gb version came in at 89% same as @Explyy. Is it possible I have an inferior battery?

hm, there indeed seems to be a pattern emerging with so many different users reporting identical capacity values at 2900-3000 mAh for their new op 5t. two possibilities: either accubattery cannot properly read out and analyze the 5t's battery charge controller. or the battery capacity is indeed around 2900-3000 mAh instead of the advertized 3300. its normal for battery capacities to be around -100 mAh from the official value, but -300 to -400 would be crazy.
guys, just to be sure: did you leave your phones plugged in until the charging rate in accubattery dropped to 0 mA? as i said before, if you unplug the phone once it shows 100% but still charging, the resulting capacity will be less than the actual one.
Sent from my Xiaomi Mi Max 2 (Oxygen) using Tapatalk

jbmc83 said:
hm, there indeed seems to be a pattern emerging with so many different users reporting identical capacity values at 2900-3000 mAh for their new op 5t. two possibilities: either accubattery cannot properly read out and analyze the 5t's battery charge controller. or the battery capacity is indeed around 2900-3000 mAh instead of the advertized 3300. its normal for battery capacities to be around -100 mAh from the official value, but -300 to -400 would be crazy.
guys, just to be sure: did you leave your phones plugged in until the charging rate in accubattery dropped to 0 mA? as i said before, if you unplug the phone once it shows 100% but still charging, the resulting capacity will be less than the actual one.
Click to expand...
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Yes, I left the phone plugged until the charging current dropped to 0, as I noticed that when it reaches 100 it's still charging at a few mA

On a related note I charged my battery from 10% to 100%, until the mA rate dropped to 0mA. I had the phone hooked up to a USB power meter during this time. The USB meter only read about 2500mAh charged. So since I only charged 90% of the battery I figured it should be around 90% the capacity of the battery, which is 2,970mAh. If I assume the battery is 3000mAh then a 90% charge would be around 2700mAh, closer to my reading. I'm going to run some more charge cycles and see if I get the same results.
Edit: forgot to say that I used a standard 2amp charger, not the dash charger that came with the phone.

yerger said:
On a related note I charged my battery from 10% to 100%, until the mA rate dropped to 0mA. I had the phone hooked up to a USB power meter during this time. The USB meter only read about 2500mAh charged. So since I only charged 90% of the battery I figured it should be around 90% the capacity of the battery, which is 2,970mAh. If I assume the battery is 3000mAh then a 90% charge would be around 2700mAh, closer to my reading. I'm going to run some more charge cycles and see if I get the same results.
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Did you use the dash adapter or just a regular one?

Explyy said:
Yes, I left the phone plugged until the charging current dropped to 0, as I noticed that when it reaches 100 it's still charging at a few mA
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and still no difference in the calculated capacity in that particular cycle?

jbmc83 said:
and still no difference in the calculated capacity in that particular cycle?
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As far as I remember no, always reading ~2950mAh

Explyy said:
Did you use the dash adapter or just a regular one?
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Someone who's having accubattery report ~3000 mah should download AIDA64 and look and see what it reports the battery size to be......