Develop Bugs

My 6 month impressions/review - long

I am very unhappy with the latest (1.40) ROM update and this has finally pushed me to this post. I thought I would provide some general thoughts/comments after about 6 months of use. I keep hoping and praying that each ROM release will actually fix some of the devices more serious issues but it never seems to happen. Certain things actually get worse through the updates.
Overall the level of integration and the sheer amount of things our device accomplishes is staggering. However, the reliability and robustness is terrible, about as good as an "alpha" release, but certainly not a production device. You may argue that I should be happy with what I have and I guess I am because I keep carrying my PDA2K. I love not having to carry so many devices but almost always feel like I have the worst of each. My "relationship" with my device is absolutely love/hate.
As background I use my device as a phone, camera, video camera, mp3 player, movie watching, internet, e-mail, gps/navigation, games, Metro subway maps, weather, pdf reading and of course all the std. windows goodies like Excel, Calendar, Contacts, etc. However, the device performs most all of these functions poorly. As a small bit of background I am not a programmer nor hardcore techie but do consider myself a power user and am comfortable with registry editing, ROM upgrading and most features/functions of all of the standard software. I do also install a fair amount of 3rd party applications. I do not see how you can get by without doing this. I use the device for work as a sales professional and also for personal use.
The phone is much less robust and reliable than almost all cell phones I have previously owned, just buggy in general, often not functioning despite a good signal and often will not connect nor hang up properly. The camera is plain terrible, nowhere even close to a decent 1MP camera, good only for a small caller ID photo taken in perfect lighting conditions. Networking in general is almost unusable: Bluetooth during navigation always disconnects when a call comes in, WiFi will almost never start with out a soft reset, and sometimes the same with GPRS. General system stability/robustness: terrible! With a device such as this it should not be possible to have spontaneous hard resets where you loose ALL data. I have them fairly often (without Sprite, I would truly throw my device away). I have also had spontaneous loss of SD card data. MS Voice Command is fantastic, except the first use of every day always requires the name to be repeated twice. The built in e-mail software is really poor, the invisible items that show up in various mail folders which require a complete cleaning out of all mailboxes to fix is beyond annoying. The long 20 second or so delay when opening the Calendar to show days with appointments really causes me delays at the most inopportune times. I suppose I could go on and on but I will wrap up this summary/gripe session
Again, the level of raw capability, variety of useful programs and integration is truly amazing. The speed when operating well is fine. However I am often nearly crippled by hard resets, poor phone, WiFi, GPRS and Bluetooth, usability and robustness and the need for soft resets. I guess this is the price one pays for being on the cutting edge, but again I can not help but feel this device is nowhere close to the reliability and performance any reasonable user would expect. From spending a lot of time on this board and other similar ones I expect to hear some quite similar echoes of my thoughts.
I do eagerly look forward to some similar comments (or different), fixes, general experiences or suggestions from the community.

Well put, some of the issues I have, some not.
Lets have a look at the hardware.
Well the case is metal which is great as it can take some punishment however the Keyboard, well.....
My Keyboard has a life of its own, I have the device in my hand and talk on the phone and it drops down. I pull the device out of my pocket and it comes out first screen then keyboard. I never use the keyboard as me fingers are to big so given a choice I would not have it.
If you hold the screen in one hand and the back plate in the other you can turrn the whole thing a good 3mm as its so loose. You can even lift the screen up away form the Keyboard at the bottom of the device and stick a piece of carboard into as a form of a break to stop it dropping.
Sound of calls is bad, tiny and to low.
Yup its a love/hate relationship and I love to hate the thing.
I too look forwared to a device that has camera which is useful (I still carry around a small 5 meg sony).
The only thing I feel that is realy good about owning a BA is this board, if I had not come here I would still have a german CE and be reseting the bugger every day.

love it
Probably, I am cheap and easily pleased.
I bought my IIs almost the same time with yours. I too have updated my ROM to 1.40 (stockROM 1.4Asia). Only the barest software I need are installed to maintain stability: KBattery, psShutXp, AgileMobile, Skype, VCard, Pcoket TV, GSPlayer, and Avantgo. For games, I only installed Smartfall, Chess, and BF Mines - not much of a gamer. IIs is too expensive for me to destroy its button playing games.
I love it very much except for some performance hiccups like restarting by itself. However, this only happens when I am using skype or agilemobile for sometime. Hard Reset rarely happens. in six months, I only remember it to happen to me once and I could not remember what I did then.
I love it because I could check my email whereever I am either thru WIFI or GPRS. In fact, I use to check my email thru XDAIIs rather than waiting for my PC to start in the morning before leaving the house. With so many "leaking" free WIFI around, no phone should be without.
I f---kng HATE the keyboard. A week after I bought mine it was already broken. Yes, it will open on its own. It was repaired though free of charge by Brightpoint Philippines. Now, I barely open it because constructionwise, it is so flimsy and I know will easily be broken again. Now, I know why they remove the keyboard in the IIi.
Will buy it again. YES, It is so neat and convenient that I could do emailing, IM and chat on the go. Of course, it is a great electronic photo album to show my family pictures to friends with MP3 background playing.
Before this phone, I was using NOKIA 9210 Communicator. It was a great phone during its time. WHAT I WOULD REALLY WANT NOW IS A NOKIA COMMUNICATOR 9500 RUNNING WM Ver.5. DREAMING....

So you guys say that the keyboard is a piece of s**t?
I'm asking because I'm going to buy BA or Nokias 9500. And if the keyboard sucks a** i'm not gonna buy BA, because I need the keyboard because I do lot of work in MSN and in IRC. So the phone must be capable to these specific applications. I know that Nokia 9500 is...

When I was still using my old trusty Nokia 9210, I sent literally hundreds of text messages per day. I love its built in keyboard. It was a breeze typing text in that old phone. I could even schedule sending text messages - what a neat feature.
The tiny keyboard of IIs is hard to use. Even painful to the fingers after long use. Now I sent few text messages because it is very hard to do so with the tiny keyboard (II's rehabilatated me, I am NOT text addict anymore). The tiny soft keyboard using the stylus is just as difficult to use.
If you will do lots of typing, I recommend you buy one of those external keyboards. Although, personally, I hate carrying extras like that. I dont want to look like Inspector Gadget carrrying with me that external keyboard. My Bluetooth suffered same fate. I dont carry it anymore. Too troublesome carrying two gadgets.
I use my IIs mainly as a communicating device (which should be) so the killer applications for me are:
Agile Mobile for IM like ICQ, MSN, AOL and yes YAHOO.
Skype for VOIP (yes, it works for me just dont expect quality calls. It's free who am I to complain)
AgileMobile will run on both Nokia 9500 and IIs BUT the SKYPE will not.
That is the deal breaker for me why I decided to go for the XDA path. Every one and then, I still do glancing look at that Nokia 9500 though.
If you will go for the XDA path and cannot wait anymore, get the IIi. The keyboard really sucks. Hard to use and easy to get loose.
If you go for Nokia path, please lend it to me sometime (hehehehe)

xcalibur said:
The tiny keyboard of IIs is hard to use. Even painful to the fingers after long use. Now I sent few text messages because it is very hard to do so with the tiny keyboard (II's rehabilatated me, I am NOT text addict anymore). The tiny soft keyboard using the stylus is just as difficult to use.
If you will do lots of typing, I recommend you buy one of those external keyboards. Although, personally, I hate carrying extras like that. I dont want to look like Inspector Gadget carrrying with me that external keyboard. My Bluetooth suffered same fate. I dont carry it anymore. Too troublesome carrying two gadgets.
I use my IIs mainly as a communicating device (which should be) so the killer applications for me are:
Agile Mobile for IM like ICQ, MSN, AOL and yes YAHOO.
Skype for VOIP (yes, it works for me just dont expect quality calls. It's free who am I to complain)
AgileMobile will run on both Nokia 9500 and IIs BUT the SKYPE will not.
That is the deal breaker for me why I decided to go for the XDA path. Every one and then, I still do glancing look at that Nokia 9500 though.
If you will go for the XDA path and cannot wait anymore, get the IIi. The keyboard really sucks. Hard to use and easy to get loose.
If you go for Nokia path, please lend it to me sometime (hehehehe)
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Well that's the thing...those are the programs I would also use plus I need an IRC client (Nokia has s2putty which is great), so this is going to be a real hard decision.
It seems in a operating system level, Windows/qtek9090 kicks Symbian80/Nokia9500 ass, because Nokia has a pretty slow processor and Symbian80 is a little bit greedy, but so is windows.
Nokias online time should be better than Qteks so that's important fact (going to use Wlan a lot). Nokia also has much better keyboard if I have read reviews right.
But...Qtek/WM2k3 has a lot more apps if I'm right and it's hardware is better than Nokias.
But the bigges issues are still on the fact that how does the device handle Instant Messaging and IRC environments. In IRC i'm in a few VERY active channels so would like to know how well does the BA handle IRC messaging, viewing etc....
Is the keyboard slider going to loose very easily? I have read that in some models it's big issue? Or is this only problem with branded phones(i mean like T-mo etc)? Qtek 9090 is the only one which they sell here in Finland.
xcalibur, yeah sure i'll borrow you the 9500, if you come to visit Finland someday =)
The above fact is the only thing keeping me away from ordering BA...

I don't want to keep on ranting against IIs.
Yes, the keyboard will easily get loose. We have here two units and it is the same. I talked to the Brightpoint service people, they say almost all IIs they repaired is about the loose keyboard.
And yaiks, I noticed now that my IIs keyboard is misaligned by a millimeter or two. I cant stop looking at it now. I hate it.
Consider also after sales service of XDA there in Finland. These things do break down. I am sure Nokia will have superb service there in Finland as they have already excellent service here in Philippines. In fairness, Brightpoint too has good service here though their location is not so good.

My keyboard experience
I have had no problems with my keyboard. I like it, use it and it has not developed any problem with the keys themselves nor the sliding mechanism. Perhaps you guys talking all about Nokia vs HTC could move that topic to a separate thread?

Keyboard's great! However, other than for impressing your friends this phone is horribly unreliable. Also, windows is not as polished as Symbian. You will find yourself installing so many 3rd party apps (which make an already unstable handset even less stable) just to perform basic phone functions.

In my opinion, XDA IIs is truely an ingenius device. However, Ias much as I hate to agree with most of you, I share the same sentiments of hating/loving it.
I really dislike the part whereby I receive/dial a call and no sound comes out of it. Also when my IIs hang the moment I exit from Bejeweled 2. I dont use a bluetooth headset, so the bluetooth bit doesnt affect me so much. I also detest the so very prominent gap between my keyboard and screen.
However, on the other hand, my IIs had helped me in so much many other ways, so much so its advantages exceeds its disadvantages. Despite the small keyboard, it had been extremely useful, and having compared with the onscreen keyboard and Transcriber, I personally found that it is so much faster and efficient to key text with the keyboard. Despite haing mid-sized fingers, with good practice, keying in text can be so much of a breeze. I especially liked its soft touch and blue iluminous glow.
Also, the calander feature of Microsoft CE is great. With appropriate 3rd party software, and its extremely ease/stability to sync with Outlook, my contacts and appointments are always at my fingertips. Tho the ringer is quite soft, I have no problems with it as I have always been using traditional ringing ringtones, which are much louder than fanciful mp3 music. Besides, I can see that O2 is doing its fair share by providing support thru O2 connect as well as the after sales service. O2 plus beta had been a great software. I had used it to replace phone alarm and pocket plus. I especially liked it phone profile feature and the part whereby my IIs vibrate upon receipt of call response. I no longer have to hold my device against my ears waiting for the other party to pick up the call.
Another comment is that the screen is clear and even using 10% backlight, I can view the screen to great details, even under sunlight conditions. The extra 4 hardware buttons for today, messaging, IE and OK had been great and it had aid me in single-handed operations with my device.
Overall, all I can say is, its been a great device. You choose to hate / like it. Cheers. Just my two cents worth...

I also came to the XDA series from the Nokia Communicators and have always been looking for a communicator with MS OS.
Can't wait for the Universal

a wonderful use of keyboard! + comments abt XDA IIs overall
hi all,
i have a very very good argument in favour of the keyboard on XDA iis and a big -ve for the absence of it in XDA IIi:
i live in india where the roads at times tend to be a bit bumpy. on such roads keying in with a stylus becomes frustrating! (those who have tried it will know). it is on these roads that u appreciate the inbuilt key board the max.
2ndly, by the grace of GOD, till date i have had NO SOUND issues with my XDA IIs.... so no probs about that..
with 1.40 update i have seen that wifi wont connect usually without a soft reset but thats not very bugging! also there is some camera application brightness control bug and thats also ignorable.
But overall i think that XDA IIs is overall a very good buy... better than XDA IIi and Mini.... NOKIA is ****ty in front of this and looks more of a brick!
i suggest you all not to load any 3rd party apps for password lock and dialler except smart dialling included in mini rom. and must haves are pocket plus, pocket informant,pocket music, skype, phonealarm, alarmtoday and 1-calc. dont forget norton anti-virus and sprite backup as the very very very imp. 1st loads.
All the best to XDA lovers... LONG LIVE XDA IIs... Doom to Nokia!

At one point I used to carry an iPAQ 3870, a mobile phone and a collapsible keyboard. With my suit on, some people thought I was a bodyguard due to my swollen breast pockets. I also also had a Navigator 3000 GPS sleeve and the WiFi CF card.
The iPAQ made me love the Pocket PC. However carrying two or more devices was cumbersome.
I then discovered the Blackberry. Look mum, no wires. Over the air synchronization using the GPRS network was great. The keyboard is also excellent. No GPS and a lack of good application was a minus. Furthermore any interesting application would be pricey.
… but I still missed the Pocket PC.
Then came the Blackberry Connect embedded in the Blue Angel. That is the best of both worlds. My dream was to have a Pocket PC with push email and WiFi with an embedded keyboard.
The cherry on the cake came with Skype. I use desktop Skype a lot and I love it. As I am an international self-employed consultant, my cellphone bills amount to at least £300.00 ($550.00) a month. Skype on the BA will save me money but I need to find a good noise cancellation headset. So what if the sound quality is not that good, my customers would expect that from a roaming mobile phone anyway.
As for the camera, at its current resolution it is a gimmick. I would rather have a lighter BA with no camera. My 5.1 Mega Pixel camera will have to stay.
I agree with everyone that says the keyboard has a bad build. The MDA III and the XDA IIs I have seen at the T-Mobile and O2 shops had the keyboard sliding out on its own as soon as I picked up the device. I had already arrived to the conclusion that the keyboard will break down even before reading this thread.
I know that I will miss the stability of the Blackberry software but the advantages I get from the BA far outweigh the disadvantages.
I don’t thing anyone of us on this board will ever find a device that is perfect in every aspect. This is technology.
I will be moving from the Blackberry to the BA XDA IIs this weekend and I am sure that most if not all on this board will encourage me.

i agree with you
hey,
i agree with you fully... no technology can be perfect... but still XDA IIs is the best bet!
just a doubt: how did u manage to get a BA with blackberry connect? any software for that available for asian users too?

Re: i agree with you
studdocs said:
just a doubt: how did u manage to get a BA with blackberry connect? any software for that available for asian users too?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
The T-Mobile MDA III supports Blackberry Connects. The XDA IIs should support it soon. I will be using the XDA IIs but I am hopping to use the MDA III software.

hoping 4 the best!
i am just hoping that XDA IIs supports it soon!
the earlier the better!

You have two choices...
1. Purchase an old used XDAII and upgrade it to WM5.0. Very stable and flawless communications and Bluetooth.
2. Wait for the new WM5.0 devices this summer.
(my 2 cents)

I fully agree with the love/ hate, as per others - I to have experianced neumerous resets, lock ups no sound etc. after two weeks I returned it to the shop and swapped my XDAIIs for another one (it was clearly faulty) - loaded it up with exactly the same applications as the previous one and since then I have only experianced the no sound issue twice in the last month, my unit runs on the "stock" O2 firmware loaded in using Corporate mode. I love the flexibility of the device and my ipaq-4700 is now rarley used as the XDA does everything I need of it with the addition of the phone functionality - great idea and concept, but I still feel it is nowhere near the level of maturity that it should be - Mike

Hi guys,
could you guys tell me where can I download for the latest firmware for my O2 XDA IIs that are going around currently? and is it true that updating firmware will results data losts ? thank you

A hard reset will allways result in data loss, but if you back it all up onto the SD card you should be able to return the unit to the same condition - note I say "should" its probably wise to re-install the lot from scratch to gain the true performance, as yet I have not tried the 1.140 ROM but I am tempted - you don't state whice service provider you are with - try their web site for a download to see if you are upto date - my philosopy is that the service provider should provide a functional device, in pratice the HTC unit is a bit hit and miss - but if you load up anything other than official firmware then taking it back and complaining is out of the window - I am on my second handset from O2 and this apears to work OK - at least it does for the demands I make of it, this includes running bespoke "home" created software scripted using Labview and it performs quite well - mike

Why I am taking my Artemis back

I really was excited about the Artemis, here's why I am taking it back:
1) I got mine from T-mobile Germany, and they have purposefully crippled the device, and gone on the record to say that they removed the wifi chipset to a) give people a reason to buy the Vario, a higher end model, and b) make customers use the web n' walk feature they sell. In other countries and markets, this phone has wifi, T-mobile actually had to go out of their way to remove this functionality; just to make a buck.
2) Even though on the after-sale website at t-mobile.de, it shows the Artemis being used with an english OS, they do not offer an english ROM; I had to pay 35eur to unlock the CID and put on the UK rom.
3) The camera is the worst camera I have ever seen in any device; even worse than the first generation of black and white webcams. Everything is blurry, and it cannot resolve anything within 4 feet of the device. My old HTC SDA had a far better camera than the trash they put in this. Please dear god someone tell me I am wrong, and I didn't see the 'don't take ****ty pics' button, because this is one of the main reasons I am taking this device back. This is just unforgivable, it makes me wish there was no camera included at all, that would be better than one that takes blurry, sad pictures; ruining any moment you wanted to capture. But hey; I can scale the images down from 1200 to 320 and they look crisp! But I may be wrong, I have only taken about 30 pics in varying conditions.
3a) The buttons on the side rails are way too hard to find or press. They do not stick out at all. You can't just pop out the device for a sec and turn it on to check the time, you have to feel around for the damn button first. Also, the camera is so bad and you have to hold it so still that using the camera button to take a picture is almost useless because you have to press pretty hard and it makes you move the device.
4) The trackball was a great idea, but it just doesn't register sometimes. The click wheel is really loose and lint/dirt gets stuck in it. I want a phone to keep in my pocket, not to keep on some lame leather belt protector. Lots of apps do not support the trackball, and even more the wheel. T-mobile says that you can 'scroll around maps' not in the map software i own. Also, the scroll wheel is imprecise, you almost always overshoot the item you want and have to go back.
5) For a serf star 3 shipset, it takes 1-3 minutes to get a fix sometimes. There is no support for anything you would want to do with a phone+cam+gps device. I haven't been able to find any geocoding apps, or anything that would take advantage of the hardware in this phone.
6) A personal thing, but I hate PPC, I got this because T-mobile DE no longer offers a windows smartphone. I find it so pathetic that you can't do things like enlarge buttons or font size. I want to use my device without the stylus; which is why I got this to begin with. I have having to take out the stylus to click some small. I wish there was a 'smartphone' mode that had profiles, even something ismple like holdinga button to lock the device needs special 3rd party software... or SHOWING THE TIME LARGE ON THE TODAY SCREEN... needs a 3rd party plugin. I finally got my artemis somewhat how i want and it's just this house of cards, this glued together mess of mismatched hardware/rom or 3rd party utilities and tools to do what the damn thing should when you buy it. Why should I have to go into the REGISTRY to add an icon to the launch bar at the bottom? Or to change which direction the screen turns when you go to landscape view? For how much code and time has been dumped into this OS, it is so unconfigurable through a decent UI; almost everything needs to be done in the registry or through 3rd party software. What a complete mess.
Anyway; my two cents, I am going to go through the complete hellish ordeal of taking it back on tuesday, so if I am wrong about some of this stuff, let me know; I would like to keep it, I really want to like it; I just can't.

Hi,
1) No real argument here, it should have had Wifi, but it doesn't. You must have known this before you bought it though. Personally I can count on one hand the amount of times I used Wifi on my JAMin so not a major concern personally.
2) I am lucky to stay in the UK so got an English based OS anyway.
3) The camera is average. So was the camera on my JAMin, personally I woudl never buy a Pocket PC for the camera, my Canon does that job. Overall all Pocket PC cameras are poor compared to other phones.
4) Trackball works fine for me and I think it is a great idea. Yes the scroll wheel is a bit loose and it does overshoot. I am sure this is a design that will improve over time, one of the problems of being an early adopter!! Overall though I find it a great phone to use with these two options.
5) Hmmm, I get my fix from the GPS in usually less than a minute, occaisionally it takes a bit longer but I am never in that much of a hurry. Not sure what it is you are trying to use the GPS for. I personally use it with Tom Tom 6 for road navigation and Memory Map for off road navigation and it works faultlessly in both (certainly much better than my JAMin/BT receiver combo). It also works well with the new Google Maps.
6) Can't argue with you too much about the points here. Personally the only thing I would like is bigger text on my Text Message notifications. I like having the stylus option for writing and have found Mousemode on the MDAC3 works well for all other uses. Sure I still have to resort to the stylus occaisionally (afterall it is how the OS is designed) but it is very rare. I could turn this around on you and say that having so many 3rd party apps is a good thing. There are not many devices this size which offer so much diversity in apps. It is just a pain you have to pay for them!!
It sounds like your use is not suited to the Pocket PC in general. Why not sell the MDAC3 on eBay and use the money to buy a suitable smartphone?
Regards

[flame mode, he asked for it]
Do not buy a smartphone. Buy a nokia 1100 and a nikon D70.
My second phone is a nokia 1100:
battery last 1 week
it can receive and make a call
you either push the red or the green button (no thinking, no choices, just push)
you can get it for free if you buy a toaster
Since you are in germany buy a nice beamer or benz, it has wonderful GPS.
PS: next time you buy something INVESTIGATE what it can and cannot do.
[/flame mode]
PS II: my MDA compact III has WIFI and you know what, I never ever use it, I use my LAPTOP for email and Inet...
PS III: why did I buy a MDA compact III? To get rid of the GPS mouse
(I live in Amsterdam beamer and benz cost a fortune here...)

I was thinking about just taking it back to tmobile, I can do that, I don't know much about Europe, can I get a good smartphone and just pop my sim in it? I was thinking about getting the Nokia n73 (sold by tmobile). It has a great camera, and my friend says it syncs to outlook great; just like a smartphone.
I dont have a car, I wanted the GPS for geocoding photos, and for hiking/biking/walking and stuff (recording gps loaction with photos you take)
Check out these pictures taken by the camera:
http://chrisevans3d.com/temp/IMAGE_026.jpg
http://chrisevans3d.com/temp/IMAGE_027.jpg
This is me holding the cam AS STILL AS POSSIBLE.

Hey Bman; you're talking to a guy who has an Axim x51v, and a toughbook CF-W2, I use portable devices a lot, and I know what I do or do not want in my phone; this wasn't my first PPC device. I knew this didnt have wifi when I got it; though at that time no one knew if it was disabled or the hardware was missing.
It is the company coming out and saying their reasoning for nixing the hardware was to make the Vario seem more useful that turned me off.. It's more a problem I have with t-mobile than the device itself. It not having wifi was not a 'surprise' to me. Also, I had heard phones had altered ppc os enhancements, like a dailer and other apps with larger buttons you could press. (I cannot press the buttons on the dialer very well; maybe i have sausage fingers)
As I said I got this because t-mobile no longer even offers a SmartPhone, and I love them. This looked like it was capable of one handed use, which it is for some things, so I picked it. I have a business contract through my company, and it was ~100eur.
I have a good technical head on my shoulders, the crappiness of the cam really surprised me. I mean look at this:
http://chrisevans3d.com/temp/IMAGE_007.jpg
This photo was taken under an array of 5 very bright halogen point lights in the ceiling above. This image quality is inexcusable. Do you not agree?
Maybe the CCD is broken?
CE

pangloss said:
Hey Bman; you're talking to a guy who has an Axim x51v, and a toughbook CF-W2, I use portable devices a lot, and I know what I do or do not want in my phone; this wasn't my first PPC device. I knew this didnt have wifi when I got it; though at that time no one knew if it was disabled or the hardware was missing.
It is the company coming out and saying their reasoning for nixing the hardware was to make the Vario seem more useful that turned me off.. It's more a problem I have with t-mobile than the device itself. It not having wifi was not a 'surprise' to me. Also, I had heard phones had altered ppc os enhancements, like a dailer and other apps with larger buttons you could press. (I cannot press the buttons on the dialer very well; maybe i have sausage fingers)
As I said I got this because t-mobile no longer even offers a SmartPhone, and I love them. This looked like it was capable of one handed use, which it is for some things, so I picked it. I have a business contract through my company, and it was ~100eur.
I have a good technical head on my shoulders, the crappiness of the cam really surprised me. I mean look at this:
http://chrisevans3d.com/temp/IMAGE_007.jpg
This photo was taken under an array of 5 very bright halogen point lights in the ceiling above. This image quality is inexcusable. Do you not agree?
Maybe the CCD is broken?
CE
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I think th t-mobile firmware degrades the camera function. there are people that can make good pictures with the artemis. But they don't use t-mobile firmware...
I also use a MDAc3 mine is poor as well.

http://chrisevans3d.com/temp/IMAGE_034.jpg
http://chrisevans3d.com/temp/IMAGE_036.jpg
Here are two more pictures. There is green noise all over any picture I take; can anyone confirm this stuff? Any cMDA3 people have photos to send? If you want you can email them to me and I will post them here (that is my site, my email is there as well)
I have even tried all resolutions, thinking that they might have been scaling in software to get the 2MP res. Nope; all resolutions are terrible.
CE

pangloss said:
http://chrisevans3d.com/temp/IMAGE_034.jpg
http://chrisevans3d.com/temp/IMAGE_036.jpg
Here are two more pictures. There is green noise all over any picture I take; can anyone confirm this stuff? Any cMDA3 people have photos to send? If you want you can email them to me and I will post them here (that is my site, my email is there as well)
I have even tried all resolutions, thinking that they might have been scaling in software to get the 2MP res. Nope; all resolutions are terrible.
CE
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
http://forum.xda-developers.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=33214&d=1168977457

If you have CID unlocked the handset and changed the ROM good look taking it back. Doing that voids the warranty plus your option to return the handset 'in the original condition'

So long, farewell, auf wiedersehen, goodbye.

Well, it's been fun.
It was renewal day this weekend, here in the UK as many of you will know all our handsets are subsidised by the network operators. Therefore every so often we have the chance to "upgrade" our handsets, it is a merry dance. Once "out of contract", we can change operators, switch price plans, and get a new handset for "free" or a combination of any of these. It can all be rather confusing, but the long and the short of it is that I can get a shiny new piece of kit, so it's great.
Anyway, I've had the vario II on t-mobile in the UK for one year and now it's been chopped so I thought I'd leave my thoughts. It was good. Obviously I flashed it with jasjamming and more recently schaps plus several others. I reckon I flashed it probably 50 times, reinstalled settings and apps, a compulsive tinkerer I suppose!
Pros...
Full keyboard
High Speed Data on t-mobile was good and genuinely useful
TomTom 6 (with ext. gps receiver purchased on ebay for 30 quid)
Useable web browser (just)
Customisable with firmware flashing!
Amazing forum here full of helpful people
Cons...
BATTERY LIFE (it's appalling, there is no getting away from it)
Heavy as a hod of bricks
Form factor (too big)
------
So what did I go for...
Nokia 6120 Classic.

wtf nokia 6120?!

Nothing like going back to the dark ages
you should have held out for a couple of months and got one of these
http://www.htc.com/product/03-product_htctouch_dual.htm

I myself have bought a new N95 8GB as my second phone.

Bingobob,
Good luck to you. You made the choice you want and that's all that matters. Never quite sure why people think that what they would buy/get is what everyone else should buy/get!
What did you do with the t-mobile device then? Sell it or is it up for sale?
WB

that's the thing, not sure. Flash it with something I suppose and/or use it as a TomTom or ebay it. not sure.

Well if you fancy offloading it and its not too expensive, PM me. I am assuming its in good condition? Also assuming that its unlocked, etc, and you have all the bits for it?
Cheers
WB

It;s also for me the end..
I bought a Nokia N95.
Ciao, Good Bye

Each to their own. Personally I have to stay with touch screen phones... from here it will be the Kaiser or some variant down the line...

Same here, I love touch screens.
Although I'm very happy with my hermes I'm waiting for the the touch cruise.

Well, I'm waiting for a 3G iPhone, no more WM6 device I think.

Same here, when there's a good offer for the iphone I'll ditch the HTC. But as for 3G, that's only a vague rumor, I wouldn't count on it.

I could never go back to a non-Windows phone.
Especially for a Nokia or an iPhone.
I've played with various Nokias over the years and I think that they are the worst mobiles out of any I've ever touched.
As for the iPhone, over-hyped, over-priced, and under-developed.
I'm HTC's ***** now.

kilrah said:
Same here, when there's a good offer for the iphone I'll ditch the HTC. But as for 3G, that's only a vague rumor, I wouldn't count on it.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
They have to make one with 3G or it will not sell in Europe. Also needs mms.

i switched to IPHONE. and i am very stisfied.
i watched this forum for quite a while, but however you will patch the hermes, it will never come even near to the iphone. everybody tries to construct iphone-like UIs. so why not take the original one?
peter

I've moved from my TyTN to an iPhone. I can't see myself going back to the TyTN anytime soon either.

iPhone ist great for design (friggin awesome btw ) and "OS" only (included internet browsing) it's really neat and user friendly.
Otherwise all the rest is total crap, most of the time technology wise
No 3G (TyTN has 3G+) a heresy for a phone that want's to be "multimedia"
Camera 2megapixel (same as TyTN, crap for both )
Bad autonomy (i'm connected on 3G with BBC on all the time for straight 34h without any problems)
No email downloading possible or push mail
So if apple re-considers and brings out a phone that has all those abilities yeah I would gladly change. Moreover, BBC or something equivalent is for me top priority

what do you think about the new htc touch cruise...?

The Iphone is personally not for me. I want to customize the phone when I want to.
Also no 3G is really a deal braker for me.
As to the UI I admit MS has something to learn from Apple but other then that no thank you.

sdemon said:
The Iphone is personally not for me. I want to customize the phone when I want to.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
That's the cool thing, you actually can. What interests me and has drawn me to WM was the ability to fiddle with it, do a bunch of hacks and tweaks etc. However, while the thing is very flexible and powerful it's "unusable". 3 seconds to exit from sleep, up to 5-10 after opening the keyboard to let it rotate screen and become responsive again, ...
Once you've tried internet browsing on the iPhone / iPod touch you just realise that WM's IE even with addons is pretty much the worst thing you could think of, only to be used in last resort, while I can be nearly as effective on the iphone than on my PC...
Guys are developing apps for the iphone at the same rate than here on WM6, and having a full Unix-based OS allows for even a LOT more possibilities than a mobile Windows version...
The lack of 3G is indeed a pain. But then, when I use it on my HTC it's by using it as a modem for the laptop, as there's no way to actually make use of it on the device itself...
If there was an official news saying that the European one would have 3G I'd wait. But I'm not dreaming and know there is VERY little chance. We'll know soon, as France will have them in a few days. But for now, the imported ones are selling like hot cakes, suppliers are getting out of stock all the time and prices go up as they have difficulties sourcing them. So I don't think not having 3G will bother anyone. Especially with the sky-high prices for mobile internet around Europe.

Touch Pro 2 vs. Blackberry

I am basically a new user to windows mobile. I previously had a blackberry 8900 but decided to switch to the touch pro 2 because of all the great reviews that I heard about it. So far I like the phone but i am not to thrilled about it at all. The browser is excellent as well as the screen but the phone seems to lag in many different areas. For whatever reason the phone seems to lag a lot and would get stuck on certain screens. The e-mail doesn't seem to come as quickly as my blackberry did;the facebook application actually was better at synching contacts and who refresh by itself on my blackberry;Also i keep getting these phantom messages that are basically just accumulating. Even after a hard reset the problem is still occurring. The only real problem that I had with my 8900 was the battery on it wasn't the greatest. I guess the purpose of this post is to really ask in your opinion why do you like this phone over other devices because maybe it does a lot a great things that I just don't know about. Thanks to all who partake in this topic.

Welcome to forums
Are you kidding?
Enter to a Nike store and ask a comparative between Puma and Nike...
What will be the answer

Um not at all...I wouldn't be asking and posting it on here if I was . If anyone can please answer my question please feel free to. Thanks

jgood1987 said:
Um not at all...I wouldn't be asking and posting it on here if I was . If anyone can please answer my question please feel free to. Thanks
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
What he meant was that the 8900 is more like the Dash 3G and isn't really in the same category as the Touch Pro2.
As for the lag, I really don't see it with mine. It really depends on how much you have running in the background, I guess. If it (the lag) is too much, you can always try flashing to one of the new WM6.5 ROMs.
My Exchange email makes it to my phone faster than it does my Outlook client on my computer.

The keyboard is immeasurably much better than anything on a Blackberry. I can't type accurately on a Blackberry because the size of my fingertips is considerably greater than the size of a key, so it's physically impossible for me to press one key at a time.
The screen is much larger (and I think higher-res) than a Blackberry. This is a big advantage if you want to play video clips, and makes web-browsing much more pleasant too - the high resolution is great for making small text legible. It's also good for some games.
The call quality is superb - loud, and clear, which is especially important for me because I'm partially deaf. I like the noise-cancelling and the lay-the-phone-face-down-to-switch-to-speaker features.
I like how tweakable it is, and I like the huge range of downloadable software.
I don't experience any lag with emails. Email from my work Exchange server gets pushed directly onto the phone almost instantly. Mail from my ISP is polled every 5 minutes, so there's not much of a delay. I don't get any phantom messages either. I don't use facebook, so I can't comment on that.
I think you may have some problems with your setup - perhaps even a faulty phone...?

Shasarak said:
The keyboard is immeasurably much better than anything on a Blackberry. I can't type accurately on a Blackberry because the size of my fingertips is considerably greater than the size of a key, so it's physically impossible for me to press one key at a time.
The screen is much larger (and I think higher-res) than a Blackberry. This is a big advantage if you want to play video clips, and makes web-browsing much more pleasant too - the high resolution is great for making small text legible. It's also good for some games.
The call quality is superb - loud, and clear, which is especially important for me because I'm partially deaf. I like the noise-cancelling and the lay-the-phone-face-down-to-switch-to-speaker features.
I like how tweakable it is, and I like the huge range of downloadable software.
I don't experience any lag with emails. Email from my work Exchange server gets pushed directly onto the phone almost instantly. Mail from my ISP is polled every 5 minutes, so there's not much of a delay. I don't get any phantom messages either. I don't use facebook, so I can't comment on that.
I think you may have some problems with your setup - perhaps even a faulty phone...?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
It is a possibility it is the phone. Also as far as the call quality. The speaker phone isd beautiful but as far as the handset it sounds muffled and not as clear as my 8900. I don't like altering softwares to get something to work especially if something cost so much it should work perfectly right out the box. I will see what happens after I exchange this thing

http://forum.xda-developers.com/showpost.php?p=3933586&postcount=6
That is what we do on this forum mostly!!

Blackberry is not more than a junk, it is super junk

cgigate said:
Blackberry is not more than a junk, it is super junk
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
you are entitled to your opinion but for the last year and a half i havent had any problems with the blackberry devices. It has done ever job that I needed it to do quickly and efficiently. Now as far as the question that i posted, which I thought was easy and didn't require or ask for any smart remark comments, was only really answered by Shasarak and ruinertt which i appreciate greatly. Like i said in my previous post I will try exchanging the device and seeing what is the outcome of it. Thanks again to those two individuals that I have listed above.

jgood1987 said:
Also as far as the call quality. The speaker phone isd beautiful but as far as the handset it sounds muffled and not as clear as my 8900.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
That's certainly not been my experience - I find it very clear indeed. (The speaker phone isn't nearly as clear as the earpiece on mine, and doesn't go quite loud enough for my damaged hearing). Do you have the T-Mobile version of the phone? There have been a lot of complaints about the call quality on them - they seem to use different audio parameters from the stock version. (But this can potentially be fixed).
jgood1987 said:
I don't like altering softwares to get something to work especially if something cost so much it should work perfectly right out the box. I will see what happens after I exchange this thing
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
It's not just about tweaking the way things work, it's about adding entirely new capabilities that you didn't necessarily know you needed at the time you bought it. The TP2 is flexible in the same sort of way as an iPhone or even a desktop PC - it does all sorts of things.

You can't really compare the TP2 and the Blackberry. Two different things. Just flash a new rom and your problem is solved.

The muffled sound on T-mo versions is a recognized problem. There is a fix which only requires copying a file to replace another one. It is even available in cab format. You might want to try it as it does not require flashing or hacking. The rest, well, you've already gotten pertinent replies so there's no need for me to repeat them or be redundant. Good luck.

jgood1987 said:
I am basically a new user to windows mobile. I previously had a blackberry 8900 but decided to switch to the touch pro 2 because of all the great reviews that I heard about it. So far I like the phone but i am not to thrilled about it at all. The browser is excellent as well as the screen but the phone seems to lag in many different areas. For whatever reason the phone seems to lag a lot and would get stuck on certain screens. The e-mail doesn't seem to come as quickly as my blackberry did;the facebook application actually was better at synching contacts and who refresh by itself on my blackberry;Also i keep getting these phantom messages that are basically just accumulating. Even after a hard reset the problem is still occurring. The only real problem that I had with my 8900 was the battery on it wasn't the greatest. I guess the purpose of this post is to really ask in your opinion why do you like this phone over other devices because maybe it does a lot a great things that I just don't know about. Thanks to all who partake in this topic.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I am like you that came from a BB 8320 to the touch pro 2 which I waited 5 long months for. First, let me say that these phone comparisons are apples to oranges. I have been an avid BB user for 3 years starting with the pearl.
You are used to the speed at which the BB service pushes the emails, and the functionality of the BB. BTW, you can set the the time interval for your TP2 to check your mail boxes. I use the internet like crazy all day long, the BB is no comparison with this, TP2 hands down. The email, thats a different story but the TP2 is not far behind, like the BB I get my emails pretty fast. MYspace and Facebook I can not comment on since I do not like those sites.
I have similar issues with the lag but I will live with them. For the same reason I did not get the iphone; what is coming down the line for WM with 6.5 soon for the TP2 as an HTC upgrade and the cooked roms via Hardspl, the BB is no comparison.
My last WM phone was a motorola mdx-220 I believe, I still have it and I hacked the hell out of it!
Just give it some time, you will have to get used to a new platform like I am. Touchflo is good but it still has issues. Just wait for the upgades to come along or go back to the BB. BB has its issues too, especially with that 4.5v firm wear which constantly would crash my phone in the middle of a business call to reset. That used to piss me off!
Richard

jgood1987 said:
I don't like altering softwares to get something to work especially if something cost so much it should work perfectly right out the box. I will see what happens after I exchange this thing
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
If you like things to work straight out of the box buying this phone was a bad idea. Out of the box its a brilliant phone but somewhat sluggish. You really need to Flash HardSPL http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=550131 then take a look at some of the ROMs, I'd reccomend EnergyROM http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=547794 or Miri's http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=552643 or if you like WM6.1 like me, BXsteez's http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=550991
Enoy the tweaking, its the reason i buy WinMo.

BB push mail
I think the mail on BB is the fastest because the BlackBerry does Push Email...

I run both an 8900 and a TP2. I totally understand what you mean about the lag. I am fortunate to have access to all sorts of mobile devices but the Blackberry (for me) just works the best. Simple things like auto correction when you are typing. Easy capitalisation and a load of other features I now can't do without. I also think WinMo is crying out for a decent Twitter client.
I think the TP2 is the best WinMo device by far. It's fast and feature rich BUT my Blackberry remains my preferred and primary mobile device.

Luckily i have a Blackberry and a TP2 so i get the best of both worlds
My TP2 i use as my personal phone, i love its web browsing, keyboard for the heavy texting i do and all the smart little features like the WifiRouter.
Blackberry is just for seeing my emails as they arrive. I dont even really reply i just like to see them when im running around at work.

the_shamen said:
I run both an 8900 and a TP2. I totally understand what you mean about the lag. I am fortunate to have access to all sorts of mobile devices but the Blackberry (for me) just works the best. Simple things like auto correction when you are typing. Easy capitalisation and a load of other features I now can't do without. I also think WinMo is crying out for a decent Twitter client.
I think the TP2 is the best WinMo device by far. It's fast and feature rich BUT my Blackberry remains my preferred and primary mobile device.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I agree about the twitter app....i havent found a good one yet

solsearch said:
The muffled sound on T-mo versions is a recognized problem. There is a fix which only requires copying a file to replace another one. It is even available in cab format. You might want to try it as it does not require flashing or hacking. The rest, well, you've already gotten pertinent replies so there's no need for me to repeat them or be redundant. Good luck.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
do you know where this cab is located?

Review/Comparison: Desire Z vs. Touch Pro 2

I’ve defected from Windows Mobile and the Rhodium over to Android and the HTC Desire Z (code name Vision). About a million years ago (late December, actually) Jackos asked that I write a review/comparison of the device, for which I am happy to oblige. Unfortunately, a newborn baby, holiday travel, and work travel have conspired to delay me from writing such a review. But I’m finally taking the time to fulfill the promise. Jackos thought such a review would be useful for those that are looking to upgrade from the Rhodium, so hopefully that is still relevant. Based on a recent thread, I would think so! http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=949121
The move to a different OS was certainly something that I’ve been debating for some time. But as we all know (and possibly unwilling to admit), Windows Mobile is outdated and nearing the end of its useful life. Windows Phone 7 so far is a big disappointment to me. The OS seems very limited in many of the same ways the iPhone is, with reviews at various websites and comments by users verifying this notion. One article I read about WP7 was that the OS is not a good choice for power users. Android was looking more and more attractive to me. To me, it carries on the spirit of Windows Mobile in terms of customization. Things are not accessed quite the same way as Windows Mobile (there is no registry), but there is still tons of customizations, mods, and hacks available.
Being the owner of the Tilt (Kaiser) and Tilt2 (Touch Pro 2, Rhodium), I’ve become a big HTC fan, and wanted something similar, with a hardware keyboard. The Desire Z has a very similar form factor to the Rhodium, with a hardware keyboard, nearly the same screen size, and similar dimensions. I found out that Bell Canada released the HTC Desire Z in November, with 3G bands compatible with ATT's network. I decided to take the plunge. Not an easy pill to swallow, as an unlocked, unsubsidized device like this goes for a premium price of around $600 (and obviously not for everyone). But what the heck, its a been a good year, and I decided to get myself a Christmas gift. Of course, if you are in Canada, Europe, or on T-Mobile, you have access to specific versions for those locations and carriers at a much better price.
Let me tell you guys, this device is amazing. The build quality is excellent, the phone feels very high end, with most of the body being a gorgeous brushed aluminum, accented with some slightly grippy/rubbery “soft touch” plastic (also nice looking, and does not cheapen the appearance). The feel of the phone is much nicer, and seems more sturdy then the Rhodium.
The camera is 5MP with a LED flash, and yields somewhat better photos than the Rhodium. The screen is gorgeous. While the iPhone “Retina” and Samsung AMOLED displays get all the hype, the super LCD screen on the Desire Z is still very nice. Direct comparisons I have read rate it only slightly below the quality of the iPhone or Galaxy S displays. Touch response is excellent, and registers multi-touch very well.
Much has been said about this phone’s unique “Z Hinge”. See the Engadget review, if you aren't familiar with the Z-hinge: http://mobile.engadget.com/2010/11/25/htc-desire-z-review/
Some have complained about the phone not staying firmly enough in the keyboard open or closed position, or have expressed concerns of the durability of the hinge. Personally, I like the hinge and how it is designed to open easily with the flick of your thumb. But if you’re in doubt, you might want to play around with it in person before committing to buying the phone.
The keyboard itself is very good. But strangely, not quite as nice as the one on the Touch Pro 2. The the keys are slightly smaller (and one less row of keys), and do not have quite as much “travel” when pressing the keys. It feels like a slight step backward from the Rhodium, but still one of the best keyboards around. Having come from the ATT version of the Rhodium (which replaced the row of numbers with random symbols and punctuations), the missing 4th row of keys is not a big deal. But owners of other Rhodium variants will no doubt miss the number-dedicated row of keys.
Another piece of hardware that is strangely not as good as the Rhodium is the speaker. The speaker on the Desire Z is not quite a loud as on the Rhodium, but the difference is fairly minor, and most people will probably overlook this. The 3.5mm headphone jack is a welcome addition, and good riddance to adapters and special headphones that were needed on the Rhodium (at least the GSM version).
At the time of the phone’s release, this was one of the fastest Android phones available (although there is a new generation of dual core Snapdragons coming soon). Don’t be fooled by the fact that the CPU is clocked at 800 MHz. This is a newer generation of Snapdragon than the 1 GHz ones found on phones such as Nexus One and the EVO, with a different fab process and faster GPU also. The Desire Z benchmarks faster than those phones, as well as the Galaxy S, Droid X, and others. The CPU can also be easily overclocked to 1 GHz without over-volting and affecting battery lift; and much higher than that with over-volting.
Battery life seems somewhat shorter on the Desire Z compared to the Rhodium. I was often able to get 2-3 days on a change on my old Tilt2. On the Desire Z, I usually have to charge every night. I can maybe get through a day and a half; but at least a day with all but the heaviest usage. And to be honest, I’m using the phone much more than I did my old Rhodium, so that is a factor as well.
I've played around with Project Android on my trusty old Tilt2, so Android is not completely new to me. It took me a bit getting accustomed to where some things are located, but that is true with switching to any new phone OS. The OS is overall pretty user friendly. It just takes a little while to dedicate to memory where some settings and other things are located. And there is certainly a learning curve once you are ready for customizing/modifying. There is lots of new terminology, process, and tools to learn if you want to “root” (gain super user rights to access system files) and flash a custom ROM, or do other system modifications.
Knocks on Android for not being as "smooth" as the iPhone seem largely unfounded to me. The Desire Z is super smooth, and of course has tons of customization and functionality that the iPhone will never have. And if you coming from Windows Mobile, you are going to be blown away by the smoothness and stability of the OS. The only real performance weakness I’ve seen so far is switching from portrait to landscape on the homescreen, particularly when you have lots of widgets loaded.
Using the phone is a pleasure. Browser rendering is fast, with the stock browser working very well, and Flash enabled. I’ve been previously in denial that capacity touchscreens are a good thing, but multi-touch pinch-to-zoom really does make browsing a joy. Text selection (such as for cut/paste) is aided by a zoom feature that activates with a long touch on text, and also by the optical trackpad (which allows moving the cursor by single characters).
I already keep my contacts, email, and calendar on Google. So the Google integration is awesome for me. I just entered my Google login and password, and it synched all that stuff in a couple minutes. If you are not a Google user, things might be slightly annoying, as the OS will try to steer you toward creating a Google login. Google Navigation is built-in, and will give you point-to -point directions, with audio cues, and first person perspective. It works better than the tools on Windows Mobile such as Google Maps and Bing. It works so well, in fact, that I've often been using Google Nav instead of my Garmin Nuvi GPS unit in the car.
I knew moving to Android would open up a lot of software options, and in this I was not disappointed. There are tons of useful applications and games on the Android Market, and the list is constantly growing. Software developers have embraced Android, which is a refreshing change coming from Windows Mobile. Yes, there is a ton of fluff and junk in the Android Market. But most of the major applications you can think of have a quality Android version.
I’m not a developer. So I can’t comments on the development potential of this device and Android versus Windows Mobile. But so far there is pretty good developer support on the Desire Z. And many have claimed that developers will support this phone for a long time, as they seem to favor devices with a hardware keyboard. There are several stable custom Froyo (Android 2.2) ROMs available, including Sense and non-Sense options, as well as CyanogenMod (a popular and highly customized Android ROM). Gingerbread (Android 2.3, the latest version, just released) ROMs are in the works, with alpha/beta versions already available for testing. Personally, the stock ROM has been so stable and usable for me, I haven’t really been that tempted to flash a custom ROM yet, versus a Windows Phone, where a custom ROM is virtually a necessity.
I’ve babbled on for much too long. In short, if you are looking to upgrade from the Rhodium to something with a similar form factor, the Desire Z is highly recommended. Here’s a quick summary of the Desire Z versus my old Rhodium:
Pros
OS is light years ahead of Windows Mobile (smooth, stable, fast)
Awesome build quality, with a sturdy feel
Better display
3.5 mm headphone jack
Great selection of quality applications
Slightly better camera (5MP) with LED flash
Cons
Keyboard not quite as good
Speaker not quite as good (minor)
Shorter battery life
Z Hinge durability may be an issue
P.S.: If you like the review, please click the "Thanks" button below!

I really appreciated reading this review. I'm a Tilt 2 user, that hasn't found anything new out there to make me want to give up my Rhodium and I have the same feelings regarding Windows 7, so I'm very hesitant to give it a try. Android is completely new to me, but from what I've read, it seems like the natural progression for those of us on Windows Mobile.
I'm on AT&T, so I will keep a watch on this phone if AT&T decides to release their version down the road (but I won't hold my breath ). I've never used unlocked devices either so, unless they come down in price, I won't be experimenting with this model for a while.
Thanks again for posting this. I look forward to reading more about your experiences with this device.
Have fun!
Debbie

Thanks for the review. I enjoyed reading it. Well done, sir!
For a conclusion: Was it worth the money if upgrading from Rhodium?

DebbieNY13 said:
I'm on AT&T, so I will keep a watch on this phone if AT&T decides to release their version down the road (but I won't hold my breath ). I've never used unlocked devices either so, unless they come down in price, I won't be experimenting with this model for a while.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Having finally lost iPhone exclusivity, AT&T seems to be starting to release some decent Android devices, such as the HTC Inspire (Desire HD variant). I'm skeptical they would release the Desire Z, but maybe they will release a future HTC device with a QWERTY keyboard. One can only hope.
If the keyboard is not an absolute requirement, the Inspire looks like a very nice phone. Larger display than the Desire Z, 1GHz processor (faster then the Z), and a slightly better camera. I've actually been finding myself using Swype more and more, and the keyboard less and less. So that has me rethinking the whole QWERTY keyboard thing, a little bit. Although I still use it from time to time for longer texts and emails.
BTW, if you like the review, please click the "Thank you" button!

Jackos said:
Thanks for the review. I enjoyed reading it. Well done, sir!
For a conclusion: Was it worth the money if upgrading from Rhodium?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You're very welcome.
For me, spending the money was worth it. It was a lot of money to spend on a phone, but I absolutely love it. I tried to stick with WM as long as I could. But everything just works so much better on the Desire Z. I knew it would be a big improvement, but all my expectations were exceeded.
If you are in a market where your carrier offers this phone for a subsidized price, its a no-brainer.

Very nicely written
I have a TP2 now, also considering the Desire Z since it has a (rare these days) hardware keyboard.
Seeing how the DZ performs (especially when overclocked, wow!) does make me feel quite confident it's somewhat future-proof performance wise.
I do love the tilting screen of the TP2 very much, especially when I'm at the computer and using the TP2 for MSN or FB chat or something like that. Like having a miniature laptop
Have you ever missed the tilting screen of the TP2?
When my contract expires next month I can get a free DZ if I extend my contract.
I'll go to the T-Mobile store tomorrow and see if I can play around with one

ericino said:
Very nicely written
I do love the tilting screen of the TP2 very much, especially when I'm at the computer and using the TP2 for MSN or FB chat or something like that. Like having a miniature laptop
Have you ever missed the tilting screen of the TP2?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Personally, I was finding myself using the tilt feature on the TP2 less and less. Lots of times, I found it easier to just slide the phone open, write a quick text, then close it quickly, without having to mess with tilting the screen up and down. But of course, this is a personal preference.
The only times I've been missing the tilt screen is while watching video. With the TP2, I could tilt the screen up, then place the phone down on a table to watch. HTC should have added a kickstand, like on the Desire HD. It would have been a very easy to add, and super useful.

Perfect review!
I'm also considdering the DZ, and the review almost answered all my question.
But I still have one question: What do you do if you want to navigate without being online?
So if you're abroad and don't want the rediculous roaming costs, how do you navigate?
I now use TomTom really a lot, and I don't know what to use when I switch to the DZ.
TomTom has all the maps on the memory card, is there a good replacement for Android? With regular updates?

ronh said:
Perfect review!
I'm also considdering the DZ, and the review almost answered all my question.
But I still have one question: What do you do if you want to navigate without being online?
So if you're abroad and don't want the rediculous roaming costs, how do you navigate?
I now use TomTom really a lot, and I don't know what to use when I switch to the DZ.
TomTom has all the maps on the memory card, is there a good replacement for Android? With regular updates?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
There is a paid Android app called Copilot, which is supposed to be pretty good, and does what you want. But I haven't personally used it. There are others, as well.
Also, the Euro version of the Desire Z has a feature of the "new" Sense called HTC Locations, which has a 30-day free trial, than once you pay the monthly fee or buy a lifetime license, you can navigate using maps downloaded to the SD card. Unfortunately, Locations and the Car Panel were removed in the Bell Canada version of the DZ. Likewise, the T-Mobile G2 does not have it, as it is Sense-free. But the feature can be obtained by flashing the stock Euro ROM to either the Bell DZ or the G2. I haven't done this, and I have no idea how well Locations works in the US. But comments by DZ users in the UK and Europe indicate they seem to like it.

i too miss my tilt 2, especially the tilts sliding kb. thats why i come back to these boards every now and again.
i got an evo back in august. i never thought id get another smart phone without a keyboard since i have had the 8125 8525 8925 and tilt2. its been a much easier transition than i thought moving to a phone with a giant screen let alone switching to a different os
almost anything i could do with wm i cant do with android only better. android is way more reliable and the tilt2 was a touch underpowered.
as soon as someone comes out with a 4.3inch lcd with a sliding kb that will be my next phone
off topic, don't believe the hype about the evo battery being weak, i get 24-40 hrs per charge, average is probably around 30 hrs and that's with 2 weather apps, face book, 4 emails accounts and Google searches off and on all day with gps location and blue tooth on. i also have a stock rom, although its rooted.
btw tc excellent read.
oh and as far as gps, i too was curious about the navigation, google nav is the best gps nav app i have ever used, but it does rely on a cell phone data connection, i think it gets enough of the info cached ahead incase you loose signal but if it needs to reroute and you dont have signal you are dead in the water. so i went on to try a few stand alone gps apps and i ended up going with aura, it looks pretty and it works but i dont like it, but its a good backup to have incase i dont pay my bill, lol, or loose signal.

Redpoint i hate to rain on your parade, but i went and seen that you have quite a few threads some of which are here in the Pro Tilt 2 forums regarding this new phone you are in love with, why not go to the forum for that phone ?
here make it easier for you...
http://forum.xda-developers.com/forumdisplay.php?f=594
Sorry the tilt is a great phone although it is getting dated, but that is no reason for what you are doing ....

F2504x4 said:
Redpoint i hate to rain on your parade, but i went and seen that you have quite a few threads some of which are here in the Pro Tilt 2 forums regarding this new phone you are in love with, why not go to the forum for that phone ?
here make it easier for you...
http://forum.xda-developers.com/forumdisplay.php?f=594
Sorry the tilt is a great phone although it is getting dated, but that is no reason for what you are doing ....
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I was specifically asked for a comparison between the Touch Pro 2 and the Desire Z; for TP2 owners who may be interested in upgrading. If it was a straight up review of the DZ only, and no mention of the TP2, I would agree with you. But as you can see from reading my review, I make ample comparisons and references to the TP2, so I believe its appropriate here. The DZ is also a very logical upgrade from the TP2 versus just about every other phone on the market, due to its very similar form factor and same manufacturer.
You said I "have quite a few threads" about the DZ. But this is the only thread I started. I posted a reference to this review on 2 other threads started by others. Those threads were started by users looking for an upgrade similar to the TP2, so that actually reinforces my decision that this forum is the correct location for the review/comparison.
I did debate it for a while (of where to post), and your comment is not unreasonable. But I didn't see the Desire Z the best place to post it. The huge majority of the users on the Desire Z/Vision forum already own the phone, and they don't need to see a review for it. If the moderators don't agree with my judgment call, they can move the thread.
And you linked to the forum for the Desire, not the Desire Z. They are completely different phones.

Considering what HTC 7 Pro has become, looks like the Desire Z is the only one phone coming from HTC to replace the TP2. What a pity!
I'll wait until something new comes out to replace my PPC. TP2 still does a great job for me.
Thanks again for the review.

potna said:
i got an evo back in august. i never thought id get another smart phone without a keyboard since i have had the 8125 8525 8925 and tilt2. its been a much easier transition than i thought moving to a phone with a giant screen let alone switching to a different os
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
It true, with Swype, I actually find myself using the screen keyboard much more than I would have thought. In fact, for my next phone I may seriously consider one without a hardware keyboard . . . maybe. But I personally can't stand typing on-screen without Swype.
potna said:
oh and as far as gps, i too was curious about the navigation, google nav is the best gps nav app i have ever used, but it does rely on a cell phone data connection, i think it gets enough of the info cached ahead incase you loose signal but if it needs to reroute and you dont have signal you are dead in the water. so i went on to try a few stand alone gps apps and i ended up going with aura, it looks pretty and it works but i dont like it, but its a good backup to have incase i dont pay my bill, lol, or loose signal.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I've had that same thought about having a nav program that doesn't need a data connection, so I have a backup in case I am in an area with dodgy coverage, or for foreign use. I might check out something like Copilot, which is only $5 for the US maps (and interestingly $80 for Europe!).

I would like to thank you also for the comparison and ask you about what I haven't read elsewhere.
Is there ability for teleconferencing inDesire Z?
Besides the mentioned problem with the DZ's speaker there were a few times that the feature was (even more than welcome) life-saving while using my rhodium. That, and the Excel files editing.
Also, (a "pro-" feature, not mentioned elsewhere) what about video out?
Am I asking for too much?

Redpoint:
I too have made the upgrade, from TP2 to G2 (Desire Z). Your findings mirror mine almost exactly.
Just in case any one is curious, I'll add my 2 pence.
I still kind of miss the resistive touch screen (think gloves or stylus for precision), but the cap screen is über responsive, and as you said, multi touch is pretty sweet.
I do not miss the complete lack of development of applications for WM. At least at any corporate or popular apps level.
I do miss the great MS Office and Outlook integration. Android does play nice with Exchange, though.
FWIW: Tmo G2's do have a Office compatible suite that should work for docs and xls, but I didn't get a chance to use it. I flashed to a new ROM too fast
I still have the TP2, and will likely futz with it some more, but the G2/DZ is a worthy successor.
Sent from my HTC Vision using XDA App

calrification on pro2 vs DZ
Sir/s,
i would like to know if DZ has the following functionalities:
1. exchange sync of email, calendar and contacts.
2. when you download exchange email, is it in html format?
3. can DZ record 2 way voice call? (not via speakerphone)
Above are the features that im frequently using on pro2.