Related
[final update 10/11/2012]
I have moved to the HTC One X you can see my photo samples from the One X here and here
You can find much more impressive photos posted by One X users in this thread
so I've concluded a similar guide for the One X is not really needed
[last updated 11/12/2011]
3.12.405.1 Update:
. Introduces new scenes options: portrait, landscape, action, closeup, backlight, beach, snow, candlelight and low light.
It attempts to auto select settings based on the scenario of choice, image quality remains bad because it locks the sharpness setting to 0, thankfully with scenes>auto you can override, control sharpness and follow this guide
. Improved quality: color treatment, face detection, auto focus and low light
. Low light video recording @30Fps is back, its achievable by using the low exposure trick
. For root users Panorama mode can be enabled here>>
2.36.405.8_R Update:
. Introduces improved sharpness algorithm, sharpness -1 is now acceptable
. new colors treatment, tries to extract more colors and adds some sort of soft bloom, sometime gives unreal results and colored grain, can't be disabled
. higher 720p recording video/audio bit rate
. a new option called auto enhance which blurs noise in the image at the cost of details, fortunately it can be disabled
. low light video recording 30fps is no longer achievable using the low exposure trick, you can still achieve better fps using this trick but not full fps
1.72.405.3_R2 Update:
. improve system performance and camera feature enhancements
. camera interface is faster after the update and 720p recording freeze bug is fixed
A lot of people even reviewers have been complaining about the camera quality, however the Desire HD boosts a good 8 mega pixels senor, you can achieve great results if you know your way around it.
I will start this guide by showing some tasty examples since this thread is all about photo quality please don't complain about photo sizes as its meant to be examined.
The guide is intended for the stock HTC camera app, although the general guidelines can apply to any other camera app.
The following is a quick version of this guide, each setting is later explored in details.
Manually set your focus, wait for the focus signal to turn green, keep your hand steady until the shot is taken (keep it till the preview appears)
Make sure the camera protection glass is wiped clean
To fix image quality: Disable digital sharpness so it’s set to -2 or reduce it to -1 if you feel its too soft but never sharpness 0, you can later increase sharpness using external apps
To fix the video recording freezes: update to firmware 1.72 or above, also make sure no apps are busy in the background (i.e. skype)
To fix low light bad video FPS: reduce the exposure setting to -2, it will go up to 30fps, use the flash to boost the brightness back
To fix the green tint caused by the flash: set white balance to Fluorescent
To fix the changing colors while recording video indoors: set the white balance manualy. Auto is good during daylight but jumpy indoors
Higher ISO will always boost the camera available light, so higher ISO improves frame rate, reduces motion blur and reveals more detail in darkness. However keep in mind higher ISO will reduce image quality since it introduces noise to the image. Auto ISO is pretty smart
If your photo is washed out, use the auto enhance effect from the gallery to fix levels and color balance, your photo will stay at 8MP, the enhanced photo will be saved as a new file
Taken at 8 mega pixels, sharpness -2, everything else is default Contrast/exposure/saturation 0, ISO auto, White balance auto and Flash is off.
These are from first attempt and untouched It’s just Flickr resizing them. Flickr limits the size to 1k.
{
"lightbox_close": "Close",
"lightbox_next": "Next",
"lightbox_previous": "Previous",
"lightbox_error": "The requested content cannot be loaded. Please try again later.",
"lightbox_start_slideshow": "Start slideshow",
"lightbox_stop_slideshow": "Stop slideshow",
"lightbox_full_screen": "Full screen",
"lightbox_thumbnails": "Thumbnails",
"lightbox_download": "Download",
"lightbox_share": "Share",
"lightbox_zoom": "Zoom",
"lightbox_new_window": "New window",
"lightbox_toggle_sidebar": "Toggle sidebar"
}
Larger: http://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected]/sets/72157625450976523/
more samples here: HTC Desire HD group on Flickr
As you can see these photos look great and natural, two things the Desire HD camera excels at, color reproduction and marco shots which works automatically as long as you set your focus correctly.
The main issue we need to tackle with the camera is the sharpness setting.
Image adjustments: Sharpness
+1 +2: Increases noise reduction and sharpness, however it doesn’t appear to change much from the default, the screen displays more sharpness but when you examine the photo taken there is little difference
0: Default value, in reality it applies aggressive noise reduction and sharpness
-1: Reduces noise reduction and sharpness.
-2: Disables noise reduction and sharpness completely
At default this setting is set at 0 with four other options (-2, -1, 0, +1, +2) so effectively the default sharpness is actually set at 2.
Like other cameras, at first it attempts to reduce noise by blurring out fine detail and then attempts to restore detail by sharpening edges.
However it’s all very over done so it introduces lots of blur and artifacts, even down scaling the image by half leaves it looking unnatural.
As you can see its pretty bad job at default, it’s a good thing we have the option to reduce it or turn it off, despite being a little soft-2 looks the most natural and has the most detail.
Recommendation: disable it at -2 so you capture the pure image taken as by the camera sensor, despite looking a little soft at full scale it’s still a lot of pixels at 8MP so it will look great when scaled like on the phone screen, TV, websites like Flickr or even print.
If you want a little more sharpness you can extract more detail by sharpening it in Photoshop, you can also sharpen it using an app like PicSay pro which is pretty good but sadly downscales it to 1MP.
By the way some of the effects in the gallery can improve definition and sharpness, more on this later.
Otherwise If you must have some sharpness in the image and willing to sacrifice some image quality you can set it at -1 which is less aggressive. But as you can see above even with -1 detail are getting lost.
Keep in mind taking a photo with the default sharpness applied will leave little choice to fix it later, since the image details are already tempered with.
Image adjustments: Contrast, Saturation, Exposure
Contrast: controls the levels between black and white, reducing it will reveal more detail in dark areas but at the loss of overall definition.
Saturation: controls the richness of colors, increasing it can reveal more grain.
Exposure: controls brightness, you increase the brightness but risk over exposing an area.
This setting appears to have an affect on the camera speed and frame rate, reducing it will increase frame rate at low light, -2 it can achieve up to 30fps at low light.
Recommendation: leave them at default 0 which is well balanced, unless you see a need to adjust your photo.
White balance
White balance enables the camera to capture colors more accurately by adjusting to your current lighting
environment. White balance settings include: Auto, Incandescent, Fluorescent, Daylight, and Cloudy.
Recommendation: leave it at auto it does a good job, unless your photo appears wrong in the viewfinder.
You can use Fluorescent to fix the yellow colors hue caused by using the Flash.
If you are filming a video indoors set it manually since it’s a little jumpy.
Focus
Auto simply sets the focus at the center of the screen whenever you move the camera, you can still pick your focus even with auto focus engaged.
If you want properly focused shots without any blur plus good photo framing you will have to set your focus manually, focus will also adjust your target exposure.
A slight issue sometimes after you set the focus the handset detects a slight movement and resets the focus at the center so you need to be careful.
Unlike previous HTC phones you can no longer keep holding an area to focus and shoot, you will need to press the capture button after the focus is set.
Auto focus also has a face detection sub function; it works really well when people are in frame.
Recommendation: Unless you want a quick point a shoot photo always set the focus yourself, it will insure you get the proper sharpness plus fix the exposure of your subject.
If people are in the picture face detection will do the job for you. If you like to insure the focus never mess up turn off auto focus altogether but you will lose face detection functionality.
Of course always wait for the focus pointer to turn green.
Self Portrait & Self Timer
Self portrait: If you want your camera to automatically take people photos, you can set it to identify 1 or 2 faces and automatically adjust the focus.
Self timer: If you need to take a group photo or your own photo, you can set a time delay before your camera automatically takes the photo.
ISO, Shutter speed & Flash
ISO determines how sensitive the image sensor is to light, increasing it will help you get more light in darker settings, however the higher the ISO the grainier the photo will look.
The Shutter speed is also affected by light sensitivity, so higher ISO can reduce motion blur.
Recommendation: leave it at auto it does a good job of detecting the needed settings, however if you notice the image is too grainy, too dark or suffering motion blur you can adjust it manually.
Use an ISO of 100 or 200 when taking photographs outside in sunny conditions. If the sky is overcast or it is evening time, then use an ISO within the range of 400 to 800.
Moving subjects will require some ISO and flash consideration to prevent motion blur.
Shutter Speed
The shutter speed in the DHD is linked to the available light, testing in daylight at low ISO reveals motion blur with moving subjects.
Higher ISO means more light so it will snap moving subjects sharply of course of at the cost of increasing grain in the image.
You can see the difference in the viewfinder by changing the ISO value (in daylight). The higher the ISO the less motion blur.
Exposure also seems to have an effect on the camera speed, reducing it can reduce motion blur at low light.
Recommendation: Compared to other phones the capturing and saving speed itself is pretty fast.
So when capturing moving subjects a good practice is to snap multiple shots in a raw to make sure you get a good shot, you can disable preview to make this process faster.
As always insure your hand is steady and wait until the photo is completely taken i.e. wait a little after you press capture.
If you can't be bothered then rely on ISO 400 or 800 to prevent motion blur with moving subjects. At low light you still have to insure a steady capture, exposure consideration and enable flash to help.
Flash
If it’s very dark you will have to rely on the flash, The good news is with auto ISO the flash rarely burns your subject and it usually selects a good ISO.
Flash will also help in preventing motion blur. However flash tints the image with some green-yellow hue, it can be improved using the following tricks.
Tips to improve the yellow color tint:
Thanks to Elemental_Fire for the tip! you can get much more natural colors while using the flash by choosing Fluorescent for white balance.
Remember this white balance tip is only good during flash, if you keep it at fluorescent it might ruin your daylight shots.
Like any other photo you can also improve it by using the auto enhance feature in the gallery effects menu.
Here are some examples of low light and flash performance of the DHD camera
Larger: http://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected]/sets/72157625585331314/
Widescreen
To fill the viewfinder 5:3 widescreen aspect is selected by default it gives a cropped photo at the size of 3264x1952, while disabling it produces a full 8 megapixels 4:3 photo at 3264x2448
Recommendation: Leave it disabled, you are loosing lots of pixels with 5:3, even better when widescreen is disabled the viewfinder actually runs smoother.
Gallery Effects
A very nice feature included in the new sense, it allows you to further improve your photos from within the gallery.
On the Gallery app’s Albums screen, tap an album > Press and hold on the photo that you want to add effects to > In the menu that opens, tap Edit, and then tap Effects.
There are too many to list but auto fix will improve the colors and contrast of your photo, while effects like high contrast will add an artistic vignette and increase the sharpness of your image, of course you can also apply them over each other.
It works at native 8 mega pixels photo without badly recompressing it.
Here are some examples (original, auto enhance, high contrast, lively and overexpose)
Larger: http://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected]/sets/72157625585449676/
720p Video recording
Zooming is not available in 720p mode but you can change focus while filming.
In good to ok lighting conditions, the Desire HD films at 30fps, but it can drop to 20 fps and as low as 10fps if its dark.
The exposure settings seems to have an effect on the camera performance, so reducing it will improve frame rate and reduce motion blur.
Filming at 800x480 allows you to zoom in while filming.
The video encoding is good at 8MB/s baseline mp4 level 3.1 but the audio is badly compressed at 8 kHz 32 kbps! Maybe to improve performance…
Recommendation: The main issue with photos applies in 720p, the sharpness setting at default 0 is pretty bad especially with filming people.
Unlike photo mode, setting sharpness to +1 or +2 makes a visible increase in sharpness.
The video will be full of artifacts and jaggies unless you disable it with sharpness -2 or lower it at -1 if you really like sharpness.
If you are filming indoor manually select your white balance, with auto its quit jumpy and keeps changing while filming!
To film at 30fps in low light, scale exposure down to -2 and use the Flash to boost the brightness.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c2uK6uk5MIw&hd=1
The above video recorded 30fps at sunset without any lag, using auto ISO. Keep in mind when you upload to YouTube it re-encodes the video
720p Freeze/Lag issue: [issue appears resolved with the 1.72.405.3 update]
It can be solved by killing tasks before recording, use an app like free advanced task manager hit end all and then launch the camera app. Be careful of background heavy like Skype.
Some people have said formatting the SD card with 32k cluster size will help but I found no solution other than killing tasks before recording, I have the bundled class 2 microSd and it works every time.
Solutions for bad FPS in low light conditions:
Thanks to SupremeBeaver for this excellent tip! Reducing the exposure will improve frame rate, at exposure -2 the frame rate will jump up to 30fps, you can then use both the flash and ISO 800 to boost the brightness, perfect solution for indoors low light.
Keep in mind extra light will always help both the image quality and pefromance, so make use of the Flash and ISO settings, although by default auto ISO takes care of it pretty well.
You can't select the ISO level while in video mode but you can force it in photo mode, of course this will also result in a grainier image.
more samples here from solopalmari.com http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CNtZSgcaToY
Finally the fun part
Desire HD vs Desire vs iPhone4
The iPhone4 has a very good sharpness algorithm, which is quite similar to what you can get with Photoshop. Its great outdoor but fails badly in indoor daylight lighting.
It extracts a lot of noise, perhaps the sensor is working at a very high ISO and unlike the Desire HD you can't adjust any of this.
In case of 720p recording iPhone 4 is the winner by default, it always films at 30fps even in low light (with lots of noise). However the Desire HD can achieve equal results by filming with exposure -2.
The flash on the iphone 4 is a major fail, on the other hand it has a very nice HDR mode. Finally color reproduction on the DHD is better, colors with the iphone4 are adjusted and unreal.
To conclude the DHD has a quit good camera, its only the default HTC settings failing it, fortunately it can all be solved by understanding the available settings.
Deal with sharpness, understand ISO, set framing and focus right and you can achieve great results.
Finally don't forget to experiment with the effects feature in both the camera and gallery which are really impressive.
Feel free to post your success stories or questions
have fun!
thanks i've asked the mod to stick it, it should save lots of questions about the camera
Nice job Hamdir, looks like quite some work!
I did notice the comment on the sharpness -2 setting in one of the other camera threads. It does give the photo's a sort of 'blurred' feel imho, judging the above comparison pics.
Anyway, very clear comparison of all the possible settings.
That must have taken some time to put together . Thanks very much for it, greatly appreciated.
paulus_01 said:
Nice job Hamdir, looks like quite some work!
I did notice the comment on the sharpness -2 setting in one of the other camera threads. It does give the photo's a sort of 'blurred' feel imho, judging the above comparison pics.
Anyway, very clear comparison of all the possible settings.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
yes i'm the one who keeps preaching sharpness -2 hehe
its a little soft at full scale, but why would you ever look at a photo at this size?
it can be improved in many ways since the details are there in the image, anything higher then -2 will mess up the original photo in my opinion
you can settle to sharpness -1 its the closest we can get to Photoshop sharpness quality but you can see in the comparison some details are lost in the bushes for example
don't come anywhere near sharpness 0 its pure @#$%
anyone knows how to embed a youtube video? i can't get it to work
Superb post... thanks for that.
My main issue is capturing moving people (especially my 2 year old!) indoors. Keep getting blurred shots/footage.
Any suggestions to improve this?
Thanks again.
mjt said:
Superb post... thanks for that.
My main issue is capturing moving people (especially my 2 year old!) indoors. Keep getting blurred shots/footage.
Any suggestions to improve this?
Thanks again.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
good question, i'll add a part for that, sadly it seems the shutter speed is a little slow in the DHD.
But capturing a photo is still very quick so there is a solution, when i'm snapping a photo of people i take a few quick shots in a raw, one of them will work
hope this helps
My camera issue:
Having decent settings to get the best result is one thing, having a design flaw is another:
Below is a picture I have taken with the DHD inside a football stadium (it has been resized, but that is irrelevant for the point I am making).
I am sitting 1 meter from the field, with just one row beneath me.
When I try to take a picture of the field, the lights in the roof of the stadium reflect behind the camera's glass protection (it actually reflects behind the black circle which says 8.0 megapixels). This results in the reflection being caught on camera as well.
This, in my opinion, is a design flaw and really should not have occurred. What is your opinion?
it happens mainly when you take a picture and a bright lightsource is above and opposite from you, while your camera is pointed straightforward.
i don't get it, isn't this lens flare? it occurs in all cameras, otherwise you need a specialty lens to deal with this
as a matter fact we simulate and add it as an effect when we make a CG stadium animation...
None of the pics I made with my K850i had this show up.
I think this should not happen, it is a reflection of the light on the inside of the camera cover or something.
i think it varies between different lenses, cameras and phones, i don't know its clearly lens flare, here check these from google
and this a straight shot of the sun, its just lens flare tons of cameras do that
[edit]thanks, is it working for you? it gives me "movie not loaded" can anyone confirms the video is embedded?
I don't know, to me it seems reflection bounces from the back of the black glass cover.
I get your point of it being flare, however, it looks a bit different to me.
brilliant guide! nicely laid out! u clearly have experience with photography and it shows! thanks very much, i cant wait to get snapping on christmas day! =)
hamdir said:
good question, i'll add a part for that, sadly it seems the shutter speed is a little slow in the DHD.
But capturing a photo is still very quick so there is a solution, when i'm snapping a photo of people i take a few quick shots in a raw, one of them will work
hope this helps
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Did you ever get a chance to see if there's any solution to this?
An amazing guide! I hope to buy the phone before Christmas and the one thing, other than the battery life, that was of concern to me was the quality of the camera, however with you suggestions I don't think it will be as big an issue.
Amazing guide! thank you for that!
I have a question, using my DHD at a night club, all photos came out either overexposed, unfocused, alot of noise or other kind of poor image quality.
The photos you took with flash surprised me a lot. Is there a special reason for that?
co0kie said:
Amazing guide! thank you for that!
I have a question, using my DHD at a night club, all photos came out either overexposed, unfocused, alot of noise or other kind of poor image quality.
The photos you took with flash surprised me a lot. Is there a special reason for that?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
never had this problem, only yest at the pub I tried to take a quick photo of a friend, it was out of focus in the viewfinder so I had to get the camera to focus right at this point the focus sticks to the same distance for the next shots
so make sure you get focus, quick point and snap doesn't always work well at night. Also in low light the viewfinder slows down so you need to make sure your hand is steady.
I now have a habit of snapping multiple shots in row, later I delete the ones that came out badly
one thing I can't figure out is motion blur, sometimes fast moving subjects get blurred on the other hand I have dozens of amazingly focused shots of friends while moving.
The only explanation I could think of is maybe the shutter speed adjusts in auto or maybe its related to low light and high ISO since most of the motion blurred shots are at night without flash, I will try to investigate this.
Hamdir,I appreciate your amazing work and admire the effort and time you put to it,but I just have one thing to disagree with.You said that 720p video at low light conditions has a very low framerate,whereas the iPhone 4 get 30fps but with noise,right?Try upping your ISO all the way to 800 from the photo mode in the camera and then switch to video and record one.You will get full fps,just noise will occur.Most phones probably do that automatically(that's why they all give noise in low light IMO).I saw that with my friend's SE Vivaz.Try that and report back!
Other than that,your work seems...Flawless!Well done!I hope there are more people like you around here!
tolis626 said:
Hamdir,I appreciate your amazing work and admire the effort and time you put to it,but I just have one thing to disagree with.You said that 720p video at low light conditions has a very low framerate,whereas the iPhone 4 get 30fps but with noise,right?Try upping your ISO all the way to 800 from the photo mode in the camera and then switch to video and record one.You will get full fps,just noise will occur.Most phones probably do that automatically(that's why they all give noise in low light IMO).I saw that with my friend's SE Vivaz.Try that and report back!
Other than that,your work seems...Flawless!Well done!I hope there are more people like you around here!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
cool nice tip ill try it, if it works ill add to the guide thx
Hello everyone,
I recently bought an M8 and I'm loving it so far, except for the camera.
I'm not running the stock M8 rom but the S.Team-JW-7.5.0 rom (HTC 10 to M8 port), so am I missing Duo camera features or something?
Do you guys have any tips or tricks to get better camera results? Both for video and photo.
I know the camera on the back is 4MP but maybe there are ways to get better pictures and video.
Thanks in advance.
This may help
Duo camera works fine on SROM. But Duo doesn't make the photos "better", it just enables the Duo effects like Ufocus, or Dimension Plus.
Hard to know what you mean by "better" unless you can be more specific. What exactly don't you like about the pics you've taken so far? Are they blurry, colors look off, too much glare, etc.?
Number of MP has little to do with image quality, especially if you are currently judging the images on the phone's screen (although cropping the pics, or looking at the pics on a monitor is a different story).
While more recent phones make it easier to take a good photo, very decent pics are quite possible on the M8. A lot can be done with technique. Despite what many folks would like to believe, a lot of photography is dependent on practice and technique, rather than hardware. A few tips:
1) Manually focus on a point (your subject) by tapping on the screen, and then press the capture button. Same goes with video. The video recording often has a tough time focusing on the subject automatically, so its often a good idea to force the focus first, then start recording.
2) Exposure (amount of light) will often change drastically, depending on the point of focus. So again, experiment by tapping on the screen, and you will see the image get lighter or darker.
3) This camera has a tough time with glare (washes out the whole frame), especially sunlight through a window, outdoors in the suns direction, etc. Changing your position, and what way the camera is facing can often (although not always) solve the problem, or at least improve it.
4) Tap on the camera settings, and see if manually forcing any of the parameters results in pics more to your liking. Although to be honest, I use the auto settings 99% of the time. But you can often get better results in certain situations (such as low light or night photos) by manually tweaking the settings. In particular, adjusting the exposure (EV) or saturation ("gear" icon>Image adjustments) may yield results more to your preference, if you find those default settings are not to your liking.
Hi all,
Me again. I made the switch from my Pixel 2 XL and for the most part, I'm in love. The camera, however, is leaving a lot to be desired. Colors are oversaturated and blown out, details are blurry or too smooth (my cat just looks like a lump of jelly), and the selfie camera, in video mode, did the attached while at a restaurant with a blue neon behind the bar (attached are screenshots).
What settings need to be changed? The camera hardware is obviously superior on this phone as compared to the P2XL but I just can't get a handle on how to make things look right.
Thanks!
As for the frontal camera, I never use it, so I wouldn' t know, but, for the main camera, I avoid using the "beauty" setting, and, the scene optimizer sometimes yields good results, sometimes not, apart from that, overall, the pictures are almost always excellent
Yeah, the weird lighting glitches are independent of Beauty Mode and Scene Optimizer, which I leave off. I've also turned off HDR, which seems to have helped a bit. The photos in daylight are nice, but as soon as it starts getting darker I lose all detail, with or without any of those settings turned on.
XanRules said:
Yeah, the weird lighting glitches are independent of Beauty Mode and Scene Optimizer, which I leave off. I've also turned off HDR, which seems to have helped a bit. The photos in daylight are nice, but as soon as it starts getting darker I lose all detail, with or without any of those settings turned on.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I suggest that you post in the thread linked below.
https://forum.xda-developers.com/galaxy-note-10+/review/photo-quality-t3962164/page31
It has been four weeks since I received my device. One of the reasons I purchased this device was the nice features around the pro mode of its camera.
After I saw the comments from the reviewers/press regarding the standard Camera App and the Auto mode, I was curious to test the AUTO mode myself.
In this post I will try to share my findings around the AUTO mode, explain how I interpreted the different apps around the camera and share some thoughts. I hope you will find it useful.
Device Software (Build number): 58.0.A3.39
Thoughts around AUTO Mode
I have noticed that many reviewers kinda refused to use the Photo Pro app when they did compare this device with other devices. Their explanation/reasoning for that was that many times the users (even the pro users) will need to capture something fast and straight away without spending five mins in the settings or using a tripod. Now, If you check the comments in any of these reviews/videos, you will find at least ten guys screaming about the fact that Photo Pro has AUTO mode as well.
Personally, even I do enjoy the program mode etc I do agree that having a decent AUTO mode (no matters the app) it’s very important for any smartphone.
I took multiple shots with the standard camera app (which provides only the default mode, the AUTO mode) and the Photo Pro AUTO mode. I think I managed to understand what's the main difference between these two.
(for the rest of this post, please assume that any reference to the Photo Pro is regarding the AUTO mode unless I specify a different mode)
Standard Camera App vs Photo Pro AUTO
As long as you don't change the focus point by touching on the screen, the results from the two apps (standard camera app and the Photo Pro in AUTO) are almost identical.
Both applications will use HDR when it is required and they will provide decent results. You can't control whether the HDR will be used or not, you can’t turn it off, but it's there, fully automated.
In order to prove my findings around the HDR, I compared photos taken with AUTO (both apps) with photos taken with the P Mode in Photo Pro with everything in default settings(auto) by setting the HDR OFF. I did that as it’s not possible to control HDR in AUTO mode.
For the Photo Pro you can go to Menu -> Exposure/Colour -> DRO/AUTO HDR and set your preference: a) D-Range Optimiser, AUTO HDR, Off but this is applied only for the special modes (P, S, M).
For the AUTO mode the DRO/AUTO HDR is set to AUTO, which it seems to be a special config just for the AUTO mode. I guess that it will apply the D-Range Optimiser, or HDR or none of these depending on the scene.
Quick test for the HDR in AUTO modes:
Standard Camera App: https://www.flickr.com/gp/[email protected]/2FgY1d
Photo Pro AUTO: https://www.flickr.com/gp/[email protected]/08z99k
Photo Pro P Mode, default, HDR Off: https://www.flickr.com/gp/[email protected]/1rf185
As you can see, the results from the two apps are similar for AUTO and in both cases HDR was applied. If you compare them with the third image where the HDR was set to off, it’s quite obvious.
Things are getting interesting when you touch the screen with the aim to change the focus point - lets use Sony’s term for now on: “touch to adjust”.
For the standard app, it's not possible to configure what will be happened on that action but it seems that it adjusts the focus and the brightness/exposure. In the Photo Pro you can choose whether the application will adjust only the focus or the focus and the brightness (Settings -> Touch to Adjust). That choice will be applied in all modes including the AUTO mode. Btw, adjusting both, the focus and the brightness is a common/expected behaviour and you will find it in other apps by other manufactures or developers.
Based on the above, someone would expect that if you choose for the Photo Pro to adjust both the focus and the brightness (as the standard camera app does), the results from the two apps would be identical when you touch to adjust. The reality is: not always!
The reason is that the HDR gets disabled in the standard app when the following two things happen at the same time: a) you touch to adjust and b) there is enough light in the scene so no special mode (low light or night mode) is applied. This is not the case for the Photo Pro AUTO where the HDR remains on auto (only if it’s required as described above). I have to add that the standard app provides you the ability to adjust the brightness/exposure for the focus point once you apply touch to adjust. This is not possible in Photo Pro AUTO - If you want to have this kind of control, you will need to switch to P mode. Based on that, it's obvious that the two apps follow different approach for the particular scenario.
Before I continue with further analysis of that scenario, I need to provide a clarification for the low light cases: you should expect similar results from both apps (AUTO) no matter if you touch to adjust or not. Low light or Night mode will be applied in both cases.
So, let’s discuss further the behaviour of the standard app for the touch to adjust and when it will result to a different outcome in comparison to the Photo Pro.
Based on what I mentioned above, if you “touch to adjust” and there is enough light in the scene (so the app can achieve correct exposure for the focus point without applying any special mode), the HDR will go off. The application adjusts the ISO and the shutter speed in the attempt to achieve the right exposure for the specific point. The truth is it does that correctly most of time. However, the outcome depends on the scene (basically the light) and on the user’s choice regarding the focus point.
Usually it is a photo with the right exposure for the focus point but with blown highlights for the brightest parts of the scene e.g the sky. If you understand the concept around the exposure, I guess it’s quite clear why this is the case. The focus point becomes the reference for the right/correct exposure, so anything brighter than this point will appear over exposed. In the case of really bright parts - light sources e.g sun, clouds etc, that over exposure causes blown highlights. A possible solution to mitigate that effect is to adjust the exposure manually for the focus point in an attempt to capture some of the missing highlights.
Quick example/test:
Without touch to adjust: https://www.flickr.com/gp/[email protected]/bo9TL6
With touch to adjust: https://www.flickr.com/gp/[email protected]/8eZ4ZX
In the Photo Pro AUTO mode, just because the HDR doesn’t go off during the above scenario, the outcome will be a photo without blown highlights. However, the reference for the exposure will still be the focus point (assuming you selected the touch to adjust to adjust focus and brightness), so the result won’t be the same with a photo that was taken without applying touch to adjust. It’s usually a brighter photo and this is because the HDR is applied with the provider point as a reference for the exposure.
You can observe all the above in the following test I did: https://drive.google.com/file/d/1mlqKaFObgkV6ZyV2X7B1y1kYzmpNBrtZ/view?usp=sharing (pdf file with the photos)
I tested the touch to adjust for both, the standard camera and Photo Pro in AUTO.
You can see from the results that the photos from the Standard Camera are similar to the photos taken using the P mode with the HDR off, while the photos from the Photo Pro AUTO are similar to the photos from the P mode with HDR on AUTO.
When it comes to AUTO mode, I am not convinced what would be the right thing to do around HDR for that particular scenario - the touch to adjust. Both options/behaviours (HDR to go off but be able to adjust the exposure vs HDR on AUTO) can be valid depending on the use case. My personal preference would be to have the control around the HDR.
We can’t say that there is an issue or a bug with any of the two AUTO modes. It seems to me that the two apps were developed separately and different decisions have been made. Atm, If you would like to have some control around the HDR but you don’t bother about anything else, you can still use the P mode with everything in the default config and adjust DRO/AUTO HDR, as I demonstrated in my tests.
Just for completeness: In Photo Pro, If you select the touch to adjust to adjust only the focus, the results won’t be similar as the tests above. In that case, when you touch to adjust, the exposure doesn’t change based on the focus point. As a result, the exposure of a photo taken with that setup will be identical to the one taken without applying touch to adjust.
I will close this part around that particular scenario with a quick tip/advice: if your aim is to have everything in focus and have balanced/correct exposure across the whole photo, there is no reason to try to focus on something in a distance (e.g the mountain in a landscape, a building etc) using the touch to adjust feature. Due to the fact that smartphones camera sensors are small in general, the depth of field is large/wide so everything will be in focus (this is applied for any smartphone, it’s not only for this device). Use the touch to adjust for things in close distance unless you intentionally want to adjust the exposure of the photo based on a particular point.
Overall, I would say that the AUTO mode is decent and I can trust it, especially if I want to snap something quickly.
I saw comments from reviewers mentioning blown highlights and this is the reason I spent some time to explain the touch to adjust.
If someone experienced blown highlights in AUTO mode without applying touch to adjust, I am really curious to see that.
Thoughts around the camera apps
It’s more that obvious that Sony targets the enthusiasts with this device. You can see in the product’s page that they target photographers, cinematographers, cinephiles etc
When it comes to camera, they want people to use the Pro apps. However, I am not convinced that the Cinema Pro can be used by everyone.
So, this is how I interpreted the three apps:
Standard Camera app (video): that’s easy. The default app for video for most of the people.
Cinema Pro: 100% for people interested to shoot mini projects and happy to use tripod, gimbal, maybe filters etc and they are happy to spend reasonable time to take the right clip. There is a room for improvement, mainly around the fix exposure after starting recording, so more people can use it.
Standard Camera app (photos): I saw people saying: forget about this one, use Photo Pro only. I kinda disagree. If this device is your daily driver, it means that you take a lot photos with that camera beyond the nice shots of different memorable scenes. I believe that this app is intended for the moments when you want to take a quick photo without thinking too much. Possibly this is the reason they chose to have all the special modes be applied automatically (HDR, low light, night mode etc). If you don’t have time, you don’t want to mess with settings, just point and shoot. It does provide decent results.
For the daily stuff this is a no brainer. Examples: random photos of items that you need to show to people , a meal you cook etc
For more “critical shots”, between missing the shot, and having the perfect shot after 3 mins in the settings, I choose to take the shot.
So let’s say you have spent some time taking photos of a landscape using the Photo Pro. Job done, phone in the pocket. Suddenly you see something nearby that you want to photograph. What do you do? Photo Pro is in M/P/S mode as you left it 5 mins ago with the configuration for that scene. Yes, you are 2 clicks away from setting it to AUTO but you may miss the shot. Standard camera is your friend in that case.
Photo Pro: My default option if I want to shoot anything and I have reasonable time. It can be AUTO mode, it can be the P mode and taking multiple shots by experimenting with HDR off/AUTO etc. It can be any other mode. It depends on the amount of time I want to spend on taking the shot and my mood
General thoughts
HDR
I do like the convenience of computational photography, however I am not a big fun when camera apps end up over-processing the photos. The usual example: taking a photo of a landscape during a cloudy day and the HDR makes the photo looks like you are in the middle of a hurricane.
Fortunately, Sony’s HDR appears to be not that aggressive and I really like that part.
Having that said, I still believe that there is room for improvement/optimisation with:
a) the algorithm that calculates whether the HDR will be triggered or not.
b) the HDR algorithm itself on how it blends the images and what images should be taken (how many stops above and below)
It’s really good but not perfect. There is no perfect anw.
As mentioned above, it would be nice for Sony to provide the users the option to adjust HDR in the auto mode.
Portrait Mode
I still try to understand why Sony chose to add that mode in the standard camera app. I don’t see the reason of adding a non well optimised mode to a device that is advertised so much about its photography capabilities.
For now, If you want to take some portrait photos, switch to the 70mm lens and that’s it. Nice natural portrait photos with decent bokeh effect. That bokeh effect is not comparable to any portrait mode that uses computational photography, but it still look good enough. The nice thing about that is that you get consistent results cause it's 100% natural effect by the lens (no issues with hair etc).
Not the best example: https://www.flickr.com/gp/[email protected]/m2152a
Night Mode - low light
These modes are triggered/applied automatically. I took some decent shots under low light. I can see that Sony didn’t follow the path of the other manufactures. Similar to the HDR, the night mode algo is not that aggressive. Sony tries to remain close to reality and avoids over processing. Maybe this is not something that everyone will appreciate but I think it's nice to have different approaches by different manufactures. It results to more options for the consumers, more competition and innovation etc. Personally, I don't really understand why some reviewers are giving credits to manufactures for over processing.
Back to Sony, It would be nice to provide the users the option to enable/disable night mode during the auto mode or provide a dedicate night mode.
Some photos:
https://www.flickr.com/gp/[email protected]/5fZ25B
https://www.flickr.com/gp/[email protected]/0rfGPZ (I was a bit surprised looking that one)
https://www.flickr.com/gp/[email protected]/vK61N9
https://www.flickr.com/gp/[email protected]/A4U34R
Macro
At Auto, both apps are able to recognise a macro shot and actually in the standard app if you enable the photography hints, the app will guide you to "move further away" in case you are too close. Photos look natural, there is not any kind of computational photography processing in that mode. The blur parts in the photo is a natural outcome from the lens and it happens when parts of the scene lie outside of the depth of field.
Some photos (main lens - 24mm, standard app):
https://www.flickr.com/gp/[email protected]/BM00v8
https://www.flickr.com/gp/[email protected]/s6p1Sh
https://www.flickr.com/gp/[email protected]/257gts
https://www.flickr.com/gp/[email protected]/H75112
https://www.flickr.com/gp/[email protected]/396Ac0
https://www.flickr.com/gp/[email protected]/Z83oh4
Hardware
Through my tests I did notice that the zeiss optics help a lot by reducing reflections and flares especially when I was pointing directly to a source of light (e.g sun, lamb etc). I compared it with Pixel 2 xl and Samsung s9 (whatever I had access) and the difference was obvious.
However, I noticed that when there is light coming from a particular angle (it's an edge case), there is a specific type of lens flare only for the main lens, 24mm.
Example: https://www.flickr.com/gp/[email protected]/vp48Jd
The album with all the photos in the post and some additional photos: https://www.flickr.com/gp/[email protected]/K343dG
Sony released an update while I was writing this, I will try to update the post if they changed anything around the stuff I covered.
Update: added macro shots.
Very nice review of the cameras! Wish tech reviewers could understand 10% of what you wrote here
Great post and write up. After coming here and just browsing for a couple years I literally signed up because of your post. Thanks for taking the time.
great detail and time spent, very much appreciated, post of the year IMO
it is obvious that certain reviewers didn't quite understand what simple PAS is
and I agree totally with your night shot comments - who wants a night shot that doesn't look like night and is way over exposed and processed
again many thanks and looking forward to further experiences from you my friend as the phone receives a few updates going forward, I am now hoping Sony don't change too much as it seems perfect as is
thank you so much!
@stsdema28 Great post! Do you know how I can calibrate white balance in pro mode? I have seen the adjust button in P mode for white balance but how do I get it right? In Photo Pro auto mode, photos look red-ish to me.
mehdi_s82 said:
@stsdema28 Great post! Do you know how I can calibrate white balance in pro mode? I have seen the adjust button in P mode for white balance but how do I get it right? In Photo Pro auto mode, photos look red-ish to me.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I am not sure what you mean/expect when you are saying "how can I calibrate WB". White balance can be different even between two clicks in the same scene when the light changes significantly. So there isn't a concept of calibrating the WB of the camera once so it can be right every time. What you can do is to adjust WB every time based on the scene. Another option is to adjust WB in post processing (this is what I usually do when I shoot with my DSLR, but I shoot RAW).
Back to the Xperia, I usually use AWB but I tried some of the predefined options (cloudy, daylight, incandescent etc) and they were quite accurate. Did you try any of them? It's important to choose the right option for the scene.
short article about WB: https://www.nikonusa.com/en/learn-and-explore/a/tips-and-techniques/setting-white-balance.html (it's by Nikon, but it doesn't really matter)
If you are not happy with the predefined options, you can try to set and use one of the custom options but you need to remember that it would be valid/correct only for the scene you set it for. Check the following video how you can do that: https://youtu.be/ehK8zJ2up98?t=454 (I set the exact moment he describes the WB options)
one of the reasons I was looking at this phone is because sony mentions its supposed to be good at capturing motion shots. How is it in your experience? Is it as good as the pixel in being able to capture a motion shot with one snap in auto?
billybobjones said:
one of the reasons I was looking at this phone is because sony mentions its supposed to be good at capturing motion shots. How is it in your experience? Is it as good as the pixel in being able to capture a motion shot with one snap in auto?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
The motion feature of pixel has nothing to do with burst shooting.
The Xperia 1 ii can shoot up to 20fps with autofocus and auto exposure. It's all about capturing the right photo. You can see the burst shooting in the following videos: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jQEXla29P9A https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pVJtmP8Ckfg
The motion feature in pixels (or similar feature in other apps) captures several frames or a short video with sound before and after you take a photo. The idea here is to capture additional material to accompany the photo for future reference with the aim to help the user to recall that moment.
So, it depends what you are looking for. There is no other phone that is able to shoot 20fps with autofocus and auto exposure (as far as I know). But given that you referred to pixel's feature, I guess you are looking for "motion" photos.
stsdema28 said:
So, it depends what you are looking for. There is no other phone that is able to shoot 20fps with autofocus and auto exposure (as far as I know). But given that you referred to pixel's feature, I guess you are looking for "motion" photos.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
the difference is video frames vers 20 actual full res photos
and there is a huge difference
stsdema28 said:
The motion feature of pixel has nothing to do with burst shooting.
The Xperia 1 ii can shoot up to 20fps with autofocus and auto exposure. It's all about capturing the right photo. You can see the burst shooting in the following videos: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jQEXla29P9A https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pVJtmP8Ckfg
The motion feature in pixels (or similar feature in other apps) captures several frames or a short video with sound before and after you take a photo. The idea here is to capture additional material to accompany the photo for future reference with the aim to help the user to recall that moment.
So, it depends what you are looking for. There is no other phone that is able to shoot 20fps with autofocus and auto exposure (as far as I know). But given that you referred to pixel's feature, I guess you are looking for "motion" photos.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
sorry i meant a moving object. for example a dog running or a bicyclist or a kid running. with a pixel you can take 1 shot and get a good photo. With other smartphones when you take one photo you usually get a blurry mess. How is the sony?
billybobjones said:
sorry i meant a moving object. for example a dog running or a bicyclist or a kid running. with a pixel you can take 1 shot and get a good photo. With other smartphones when you take one photo you usually get a blurry mess. How is the sony?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Check some real examples from reddit:
https://www.reddit.com/r/SonyXperia/comments/i9kbox/burst_mode_is_the_killer_feature_especially_if/ (it contains an animation as well)
https://www.reddit.com/r/SonyXperia/comments/i634x9/ive_complained_about_focus_tracking_while_doing/
https://www.reddit.com/r/SonyXperia...ng_with_professionals_burst_shot_on_xperia_1/
https://www.reddit.com/r/SonyXperia/comments/i9687m/testing_the_high_continuous_shooting_mode/
https://www.reddit.com/r/SonyXperia/comments/i7m08k/20_fps/
anyone notice that with Camera Pro, raw and 70mm lens ... it produce a 13,8mpx photo?
if you save it in jpg it's a 12,2mpx, if you select raw, it produce a 13,8mpx with 4288x3216 resolution
I'm on XQ-AT52 HongKong with 3.88 firmware
my thoughts
This is very faithful review by stsdema28, great job thank you.
I have come to the same conclusion as stsdema28 while testing it.
I have my xperia 1II for a week now and after testing it I'm sure that I made a good chose buying it.
There are some things that are important to me while taking pictures with a phone and I like to share them with you.
First of all I think that main camera app does amazing job in recognising scenes, focus, white balance, it's reliable.
It's fast and convenient; for me, I don't see s reason to use Pro app.
In my opinion using Pro is good for RAW output if someone needs it.
I personally have used raw in cameras for years but I consider it a waste of time for me right now.
Main camera app also in my opinion has flawless noise reduction, jpg's from Pro mode have different noise reduction; more looking like "alfa" camera output.
So, what is important for me with this camera phone:
-all 3 cameras output same resolution 12mpix photos
-colours are true to life on all 3 cameras and they remain the same on each one of them
-auto white balance is correct in different scenes where I had problems before with my Huawei p30pro
-pictures have natural look, not overprocessed
-there are no artifacts when the light is to bright on a shiny surface and around red light sources in the dark
-glow around light sources look natural like from a real camera, don't know if this is due to good optics or the lens coating
When it comes to video all that I can really say is that I have no complaints and find it very high quality.
What I need to point out is audio quality which is on par with video quality.
Wind noise filter does awesome job, all that is left of wind in strong wind; is something like old low bitrate mp3 artifacts but very faint.
Sound positioning is very good too.
Selfie camera take sharp shots, no artifacts in bright light, I almost never use it, but if I did; I would be happy with the results.
Thx
Paweł
Thanks to @stsdema28 and @starepiernikowe for the excellent real life reviews of the phone. It is so helpful and so much better than watching the YouTube reviews.
---------- Post added at 09:25 AM ---------- Previous post was at 09:25 AM ----------
Thanks to @stsdema28 and @starepiernikowe for the excellent real life reviews of the phone. It is so helpful and so much better than watching the YouTube reviews.
ISO3200 PRO and default app
Just wanted to show the differences in jpg from PRO app and default camera app noise reduction.
The exposure is different on those pictures, so the colors are too.
Left is PRO right is default camera app.
https://
freeimage.host/i/26zkCJ
Sorry I have problems with putting links here since i don't have enough posts.
Thx
Pawel
stsdema28 said:
It has been four weeks since I received my device. One of the reasons I purchased this device was the nice features around the pro mode of its camera.
After I saw the comments from the reviewers/press regarding the standard Camera App and the Auto mode, I was curious to test the AUTO mode myself.
In this post I will try to share my findings around the AUTO mode, explain how I interpreted the different apps around the camera and share some thoughts. I hope you will find it useful.
Device Software (Build number): 58.0.A3.39
Thoughts around AUTO Mode
I have noticed that many reviewers kinda refused to use the Photo Pro app when they did compare this device with other devices. Their explanation/reasoning for that was that many times the users (even the pro users) will need to capture something fast and straight away without spending five mins in the settings or using a tripod. Now, If you check the comments in any of these reviews/videos, you will find at least ten guys screaming about the fact that Photo Pro has AUTO mode as well.
Personally, even I do enjoy the program mode etc I do agree that having a decent AUTO mode (no matters the app) it’s very important for any smartphone.
I took multiple shots with the standard camera app (which provides only the default mode, the AUTO mode) and the Photo Pro AUTO mode. I think I managed to understand what's the main difference between these two.
(for the rest of this post, please assume that any reference to the Photo Pro is regarding the AUTO mode unless I specify a different mode)
Standard Camera App vs Photo Pro AUTO
As long as you don't change the focus point by touching on the screen, the results from the two apps (standard camera app and the Photo Pro in AUTO) are almost identical.
Both applications will use HDR when it is required and they will provide decent results. You can't control whether the HDR will be used or not, you can’t turn it off, but it's there, fully automated.
In order to prove my findings around the HDR, I compared photos taken with AUTO (both apps) with photos taken with the P Mode in Photo Pro with everything in default settings(auto) by setting the HDR OFF. I did that as it’s not possible to control HDR in AUTO mode.
For the Photo Pro you can go to Menu -> Exposure/Colour -> DRO/AUTO HDR and set your preference: a) D-Range Optimiser, AUTO HDR, Off but this is applied only for the special modes (P, S, M).
For the AUTO mode the DRO/AUTO HDR is set to AUTO, which it seems to be a special config just for the AUTO mode. I guess that it will apply the D-Range Optimiser, or HDR or none of these depending on the scene.
Quick test for the HDR in AUTO modes:
Standard Camera App: https://www.flickr.com/gp/[email protected]/2FgY1d
Photo Pro AUTO: https://www.flickr.com/gp/[email protected]/08z99k
Photo Pro P Mode, default, HDR Off: https://www.flickr.com/gp/[email protected]/1rf185
As you can see, the results from the two apps are similar for AUTO and in both cases HDR was applied. If you compare them with the third image where the HDR was set to off, it’s quite obvious.
Things are getting interesting when you touch the screen with the aim to change the focus point - lets use Sony’s term for now on: “touch to adjust”.
For the standard app, it's not possible to configure what will be happened on that action but it seems that it adjusts the focus and the brightness/exposure. In the Photo Pro you can choose whether the application will adjust only the focus or the focus and the brightness (Settings -> Touch to Adjust). That choice will be applied in all modes including the AUTO mode. Btw, adjusting both, the focus and the brightness is a common/expected behaviour and you will find it in other apps by other manufactures or developers.
Based on the above, someone would expect that if you choose for the Photo Pro to adjust both the focus and the brightness (as the standard camera app does), the results from the two apps would be identical when you touch to adjust. The reality is: not always!
The reason is that the HDR gets disabled in the standard app when the following two things happen at the same time: a) you touch to adjust and b) there is enough light in the scene so no special mode (low light or night mode) is applied. This is not the case for the Photo Pro AUTO where the HDR remains on auto (only if it’s required as described above). I have to add that the standard app provides you the ability to adjust the brightness/exposure for the focus point once you apply touch to adjust. This is not possible in Photo Pro AUTO - If you want to have this kind of control, you will need to switch to P mode. Based on that, it's obvious that the two apps follow different approach for the particular scenario.
Before I continue with further analysis of that scenario, I need to provide a clarification for the low light cases: you should expect similar results from both apps (AUTO) no matter if you touch to adjust or not. Low light or Night mode will be applied in both cases.
So, let’s discuss further the behaviour of the standard app for the touch to adjust and when it will result to a different outcome in comparison to the Photo Pro.
Based on what I mentioned above, if you “touch to adjust” and there is enough light in the scene (so the app can achieve correct exposure for the focus point without applying any special mode), the HDR will go off. The application adjusts the ISO and the shutter speed in the attempt to achieve the right exposure for the specific point. The truth is it does that correctly most of time. However, the outcome depends on the scene (basically the light) and on the user’s choice regarding the focus point.
Usually it is a photo with the right exposure for the focus point but with blown highlights for the brightest parts of the scene e.g the sky. If you understand the concept around the exposure, I guess it’s quite clear why this is the case. The focus point becomes the reference for the right/correct exposure, so anything brighter than this point will appear over exposed. In the case of really bright parts - light sources e.g sun, clouds etc, that over exposure causes blown highlights. A possible solution to mitigate that effect is to adjust the exposure manually for the focus point in an attempt to capture some of the missing highlights.
Quick example/test:
Without touch to adjust: https://www.flickr.com/gp/[email protected]/bo9TL6
With touch to adjust: https://www.flickr.com/gp/[email protected]/8eZ4ZX
In the Photo Pro AUTO mode, just because the HDR doesn’t go off during the above scenario, the outcome will be a photo without blown highlights. However, the reference for the exposure will still be the focus point (assuming you selected the touch to adjust to adjust focus and brightness), so the result won’t be the same with a photo that was taken without applying touch to adjust. It’s usually a brighter photo and this is because the HDR is applied with the provider point as a reference for the exposure.
You can observe all the above in the following test I did: https://drive.google.com/file/d/1mlqKaFObgkV6ZyV2X7B1y1kYzmpNBrtZ/view?usp=sharing (pdf file with the photos)
I tested the touch to adjust for both, the standard camera and Photo Pro in AUTO.
You can see from the results that the photos from the Standard Camera are similar to the photos taken using the P mode with the HDR off, while the photos from the Photo Pro AUTO are similar to the photos from the P mode with HDR on AUTO.
When it comes to AUTO mode, I am not convinced what would be the right thing to do around HDR for that particular scenario - the touch to adjust. Both options/behaviours (HDR to go off but be able to adjust the exposure vs HDR on AUTO) can be valid depending on the use case. My personal preference would be to have the control around the HDR.
We can’t say that there is an issue or a bug with any of the two AUTO modes. It seems to me that the two apps were developed separately and different decisions have been made. Atm, If you would like to have some control around the HDR but you don’t bother about anything else, you can still use the P mode with everything in the default config and adjust DRO/AUTO HDR, as I demonstrated in my tests.
Just for completeness: In Photo Pro, If you select the touch to adjust to adjust only the focus, the results won’t be similar as the tests above. In that case, when you touch to adjust, the exposure doesn’t change based on the focus point. As a result, the exposure of a photo taken with that setup will be identical to the one taken without applying touch to adjust.
I will close this part around that particular scenario with a quick tip/advice: if your aim is to have everything in focus and have balanced/correct exposure across the whole photo, there is no reason to try to focus on something in a distance (e.g the mountain in a landscape, a building etc) using the touch to adjust feature. Due to the fact that smartphones camera sensors are small in general, the depth of field is large/wide so everything will be in focus (this is applied for any smartphone, it’s not only for this device). Use the touch to adjust for things in close distance unless you intentionally want to adjust the exposure of the photo based on a particular point.
Overall, I would say that the AUTO mode is decent and I can trust it, especially if I want to snap something quickly.
I saw comments from reviewers mentioning blown highlights and this is the reason I spent some time to explain the touch to adjust.
If someone experienced blown highlights in AUTO mode without applying touch to adjust, I am really curious to see that.
Thoughts around the camera apps
It’s more that obvious that Sony targets the enthusiasts with this device. You can see in the product’s page that they target photographers, cinematographers, cinephiles etc
When it comes to camera, they want people to use the Pro apps. However, I am not convinced that the Cinema Pro can be used by everyone.
So, this is how I interpreted the three apps:
Standard Camera app (video): that’s easy. The default app for video for most of the people.
Cinema Pro: 100% for people interested to shoot mini projects and happy to use tripod, gimbal, maybe filters etc and they are happy to spend reasonable time to take the right clip. There is a room for improvement, mainly around the fix exposure after starting recording, so more people can use it.
Standard Camera app (photos): I saw people saying: forget about this one, use Photo Pro only. I kinda disagree. If this device is your daily driver, it means that you take a lot photos with that camera beyond the nice shots of different memorable scenes. I believe that this app is intended for the moments when you want to take a quick photo without thinking too much. Possibly this is the reason they chose to have all the special modes be applied automatically (HDR, low light, night mode etc). If you don’t have time, you don’t want to mess with settings, just point and shoot. It does provide decent results.
For the daily stuff this is a no brainer. Examples: random photos of items that you need to show to people , a meal you cook etc
For more “critical shots”, between missing the shot, and having the perfect shot after 3 mins in the settings, I choose to take the shot.
So let’s say you have spent some time taking photos of a landscape using the Photo Pro. Job done, phone in the pocket. Suddenly you see something nearby that you want to photograph. What do you do? Photo Pro is in M/P/S mode as you left it 5 mins ago with the configuration for that scene. Yes, you are 2 clicks away from setting it to AUTO but you may miss the shot. Standard camera is your friend in that case.
Photo Pro: My default option if I want to shoot anything and I have reasonable time. It can be AUTO mode, it can be the P mode and taking multiple shots by experimenting with HDR off/AUTO etc. It can be any other mode. It depends on the amount of time I want to spend on taking the shot and my mood
General thoughts
HDR
I do like the convenience of computational photography, however I am not a big fun when camera apps end up over-processing the photos. The usual example: taking a photo of a landscape during a cloudy day and the HDR makes the photo looks like you are in the middle of a hurricane.
Fortunately, Sony’s HDR appears to be not that aggressive and I really like that part.
Having that said, I still believe that there is room for improvement/optimisation with:
a) the algorithm that calculates whether the HDR will be triggered or not.
b) the HDR algorithm itself on how it blends the images and what images should be taken (how many stops above and below)
It’s really good but not perfect. There is no perfect anw.
As mentioned above, it would be nice for Sony to provide the users the option to adjust HDR in the auto mode.
Portrait Mode
I still try to understand why Sony chose to add that mode in the standard camera app. I don’t see the reason of adding a non well optimised mode to a device that is advertised so much about its photography capabilities.
For now, If you want to take some portrait photos, switch to the 70mm lens and that’s it. Nice natural portrait photos with decent bokeh effect. That bokeh effect is not comparable to any portrait mode that uses computational photography, but it still look good enough. The nice thing about that is that you get consistent results cause it's 100% natural effect by the lens (no issues with hair etc).
Not the best example: https://www.flickr.com/gp/[email protected]/m2152a
Night Mode - low light
These modes are triggered/applied automatically. I took some decent shots under low light. I can see that Sony didn’t follow the path of the other manufactures. Similar to the HDR, the night mode algo is not that aggressive. Sony tries to remain close to reality and avoids over processing. Maybe this is not something that everyone will appreciate but I think it's nice to have different approaches by different manufactures. It results to more options for the consumers, more competition and innovation etc. Personally, I don't really understand why some reviewers are giving credits to manufactures for over processing.
Back to Sony, It would be nice to provide the users the option to enable/disable night mode during the auto mode or provide a dedicate night mode.
Some photos:
https://www.flickr.com/gp/[email protected]/5fZ25B
https://www.flickr.com/gp/[email protected]/0rfGPZ (I was a bit surprised looking that one)
https://www.flickr.com/gp/[email protected]/vK61N9
https://www.flickr.com/gp/[email protected]/A4U34R
Macro
At Auto, both apps are able to recognise a macro shot and actually in the standard app if you enable the photography hints, the app will guide you to "move further away" in case you are too close. Photos look natural, there is not any kind of computational photography processing in that mode. The blur parts in the photo is a natural outcome from the lens and it happens when parts of the scene lie outside of the depth of field.
Some photos (main lens - 24mm, standard app):
https://www.flickr.com/gp/[email protected]/BM00v8
https://www.flickr.com/gp/[email protected]/s6p1Sh
https://www.flickr.com/gp/[email protected]/257gts
https://www.flickr.com/gp/[email protected]/H75112
https://www.flickr.com/gp/[email protected]/396Ac0
https://www.flickr.com/gp/[email protected]/Z83oh4
Hardware
Through my tests I did notice that the zeiss optics help a lot by reducing reflections and flares especially when I was pointing directly to a source of light (e.g sun, lamb etc). I compared it with Pixel 2 xl and Samsung s9 (whatever I had access) and the difference was obvious.
However, I noticed that when there is light coming from a particular angle (it's an edge case), there is a specific type of lens flare only for the main lens, 24mm.
Example: https://www.flickr.com/gp/[email protected]/vp48Jd
The album with all the photos in the post and some additional photos: https://www.flickr.com/gp/[email protected]/K343dG
Sony released an update while I was writing this, I will try to update the post if they changed anything around the stuff I covered.
Update: added macro shots.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Really appreciate that detailed info, thanks!
Quick question from me - in the Photo Pro app Auto mode, if RAW or RAW+Jpg is the selected format, have you found that the phone doesn't use HDR? Seems to be my experience. Make sense, but I wondered if it might still use HDR for the JPG and perhaps save each of the RAW files it generated, too. Doesn't seem so.
I would like to hear some opinions on this. I noticed some time ago that my videos had very inconsistent colors - there would be visible change of the balance when paning around or filming different objects to an extent that seems odd. After trying out and comparing I did realise that the main camera tends to very aggresively change the auto white balance, even if the scene is basically the same and the phone just slightly changes angle. It seems as it tries to desperately match white balance to every frame and its content (forgive my amateur vocabulary here), which to me seems strange and looking at other phones they just hold a much more consistent balance.
I attach 2 videos to show the issue - keep in mind that the issue isnt as visible always, as I tried very specific scenes/angles to show it.
When I use manual white balance it works great, so it kinda feels like a software issue (?)
Does anybody have a similar experience?
Would you mind trying to film a video in a similar scenario, but after disabling the option "scene optimizer" in the camera settings? I don't know if it does anything, but might be worth trying.
1812CE said:
Would you mind trying to film a video in a similar scenario, but after disabling the option "scene optimizer" in the camera settings? I don't know if it does anything, but might be worth trying.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Thanks for the tipp, I'll try to compare it, although I dont think that scene optimizer affects videos
Unfortunately turning scene optimizer off doesnt change it (video attached).
It still feels like a software issue, but since nobody has yet confirmed a similar experience I'm starting to think it might be a problem with my unit. (Btw my A52s seems to have the Samsung image sensor not the Sony one)
Edit: or, I am exaggerating and this behaviour is actually not unusual - havent had a Samsung phone for a few years before my A52s
neat_wheat said:
Unfortunately turning scene optimizer off doesnt change it (video attached).
It still feels like a software issue, but since nobody has yet confirmed a similar experience I'm starting to think it might be a problem with my unit. (Btw my A52s seems to have the Samsung image sensor not the Sony one)
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I do not shoot a lot of video, but in the few videos I did shoot I never saw what is visible in your videos (Sony sensor). It is indeed very jarring. Do you only have it with footage of grass or just always?
In the Samsung camera app, you can go the "Professional Video" mode in the "More" section (so where macro etc. is), and then set whitebalance manually to e.g. 5500K and see whether it is more stable then. But like I said I do not shoot a lot of video, so I certainly do not have experience with that professional video mode.
Edit: I now see that you already mention manual whitebalance yourself. So are there disadvantages to just using professional video mode all the time then?
sanderbos said:
(...)
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
It definitely gets more visible in outside scenes, more so if there is a lot of green in the frame - indoors and with artificial light it definitely is hard to spot. As I mentioned above it feels like it tries to match the balance to the content or objects of/in the frame, instead of keeping a consistent balance. I had a video where I stuck my hand in and out of the frame and it would drastically change the whole color to match the hand it seemed (thinking about it, the background was grass also, so ...).
Pro mode is a solution, it's just that I'm not a fan of setting the balance everytime I take a video or photo - and the balance ofc affects photos in the same way, as 2 photos of basically the same scene might have drastically different WB.
Nevertheless thanks a lot for your input - I also very much enjoyed your detailed instructions for Gcam usage
neat_wheat said:
Pro mode is a solution, it's just that I'm not a fan of setting the balance everytime I take a video or photo - and the balance ofc affects photos in the same way, as 2 photos of basically the same scene might have drastically different WB.
Nevertheless thanks a lot for your input - I also very much enjoyed your detailed instructions for Gcam usage
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You would not have to set it every time (probably). In the Samsung camera app I have dragged the Pro Photo (not video) mode to the 'main bar' (from the more menu you can hold and drag items in and out of the main bar for quick access), with a changed fixed ISO (for shooting of fast action scenes), and you set it once and the camera app will remember that setting forever. And I think for all outside scenes around 5600K WB will work fine (it's not like the A52s is a high quality video machine anyway).
I didn't want to bring up gcam because I had no idea whether that would make a difference, but now that you brought it up, does that have the same whitebalance issues for you (in video)?
sanderbos said:
(...). And I think for all outside scenes around 5600K WB will work fine (it's not like the A52s is a high quality video machine anyway).
I didn't want to bring up gcam because I had no idea whether that would make a difference, but now that you brought it up, does that have the same whitebalance issues for you (in video)?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I meant I would have to set it again for every scene, but you are right, something like 5600 would probably be okay for most outdoor stuff. And with rearranging the icons it wouldnt be such a hassle. I'll try that out for daily use, thanks!
I am using BSG gcam also, because I find the nightmode drastically better but unfortunately the balance issue is the same, so I guess the balance gets set on system level. I also tried gcam awb but it always seems to be a bit off no matter the config - but I prefer the stock app for daylight anyway (apart from the wb)