Related
edit: added poll
i believe that it would be a really great idea if one new market place subforum is added. this would be dedicated to finding genuinly great deals on phones or services that people normally look for here. there are just too many
a friend was about to pay an absurd $950 (locally)for an xperia 2 weeks ago and i managed to save him more than $250 based on a post (that was actully misplaced)
what do you guys think? please voice your opinion. if there is a lot of interest and if our request is reasonable. im sure the administrators wont ignore it
Some threads already discussing this:
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=469619&highlight=Selling
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=375362&highlight=Selling
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=336538&highlight=Selling
XDA-Developers isn't a market place and doesn't want to be IMO, we are a development forum. If a Marketplace was setup we would start attracting power sellers and scammers - there's no denying it, you cannot trust anyone on the internet . This would mean xda-developers would then have a responsibilty over what was sold on it's site.
Buying and selling of devices on this forum has caused problems before - a senior member on this forum scammed a number of users by selling devices that didn't exist.
Known users selling a second hand device after an upgrade is allowed (for the moment).
Thanks
Dave
i think the $700 he paid is too much. you can get it for even less from UK shops like expansys or handec or ebay even with shipping put into consideration.
the idea has merit but dave is also making a lot of sense .
mabe we can reach middle ground by creating a new "deals" subforum for all devices. a single subforum should not be that hard to moderatea slickdeals.net type forum is extreemly valuable to far too many people espeically new-comers.
oh and btw its now possible to buy decent wm devices for as litte as $160. pda+keyboard+3.5G+520mhz+wifi http://www.expansys.ae/p.aspx?i=147071
are you sure expansys.ae is not a scam site. a similar phone like this would cost about 2-3 times as much
i just added a poll in hope that this will give the admins a better idea what people want.
i just find it a bit unbalnced that there are so many uneeded forums (like accssories subforum for EACH phone that was ever created while something as usuful as this does not get a forum based on the ASSUMPTION that it will be abused.
how about they create a forum for a test period and if it proves to be problamatic the admins remove it.
As posted before
Already are threads regarding this
what i am asking for is a toned down vesion of what what asked before
-im not asking a per device forum.
-not asking forum wtb/wts forum.
im just asking for a single test forum that will help people find good deals on wm all smartphones. the moderators are already handling over 50 subforums. is one extra really a big deal??!!
now if only i could get more people to vote too see how other people feel about this
THE GRIZZ said:
i just find it a bit unbalnced that there are so many uneeded forums (like accssories subforum for EACH phone that was ever created while something as usuful as this does not get a forum based on the ASSUMPTION that it will be abused.
how about they create a forum for a test period and if it proves to be problamatic the admins remove it.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
To be fair, if you look at who it is that's saying "it's been talked about before, and we think that the idea is problematic and we don't really want it to become a marketplace" you might notice one significant fact that i believe you are overlooking. That fact is that we're talking about some of the more significant, long-term contributors to the forum, and people who have actually talked to the site admin before and know the owner's/admin's feelings about the matter. The issue isn't that we can't handle one more sub-forum, or even 10 more for that matter, but rather what that sub-forum will contain. You have not even been a member one month, and I in no means intend to put you down, but believe me when i say that if you spend the next year learning and contributing here on the forum, you will have a much different perspective than you do now.
There are already marketplace forums in existence but it does not belong here. Personally, I do not agree with people creating threads selling their devices on here. Many of us remember the Cuboosh scams that took place a short while ago and many considered him a valued member to this community prior to his shady activities.
In addition, I am undecided whether I agree with people linking their eBay listing here. If you want to promote more attraction to your listing do it elsewhere.
Below is a handy website that does have marketplace deals for many items. If you want to add deals on win-mo devices to their forums feel free too.
http://www.makeuseof.com/tag/13-bargain-websites-that-are-cheaper-than-ebay/
Similar Story
A friend of mine is a mod on a site that has fairly heavy trading of sports cards and other collectibles. Admittedly that site is largely focused on that activity, or at least it has become a major focus over time (I'm not a member and have no part in it, so I admit, I know little of it's history).
He's told me a number of times about complications with scammers, and even repeat offenders who return even after being banned numerous times, which has even forced the site to have more moderators to manage scammers than mods for thread problems. To my knowledge (and logic), the site only supports people trading within the United States, which obviously has stricter laws and enforcement on mail scams than there are for international situations. Despite all of their efforts, they still have people trying to rip off others all the time. Given the nature of how easy it is to set up a website that even looks legit, plus crossing international lines in many cases, this site would be inviting the worst kind of activity where people would be spending large amounts on electronics that will never be delivered.
There's already a pretty good standard of people searching around and asking the forum if others have dealt with a specific site/seller before....which seems to usually just get more people suggesting expansys (why oh why can't there be a decent seller in the US?)
270 views and only 12 votes.im quite surprised with the level of interest of this idea.this does not look like it will fly here
are there any other good sites that provide for what im asking?
I've only been a member a couple of weeks (lurked previously) but like mentioned above, I see this forum as a development/support tool, not a marketplace. It's a place people come to learn about a device they've already got, or are getting. I undertand the reasoning behind your suggestion, but there are many, many other sources of purchase information/price comparison sites on the internet. I spent weeks researching prices before deciding on how to buy my Touch HD and to be honest, on that particular point, this site didn't really enter into it. It does now, obviously.
There are many sites in the UK that compare mobile phone prices, whether they be handset only, pay as you go, or monthly contract. I'm surprised there aren't similar sites elsewhere in the world.
I cannot vouch for any of these sites, use at your own risk, etc, etc, but I used them during my search for the best package:
http://www.mobiles.co.uk/
http://www.moneysupermarket.com/MobilePhones/default.aspx
http://www.mobile-phones.co.uk/
http://www.dialaphone.co.uk/compare_phones.html
THE GRIZZ said:
.this does not look like it will fly here
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
it flew check the new section
No one is allowed to say XDA Developers is resistant to change ever again.
JimmyMcGee said:
No one is allowed to say XDA Developers is resistant to change ever again.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Can I have an Omnia forum then, please
Dave
DaveShaw said:
Can I have an Omnia forum then, please
Dave
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I reject your change and substitute my own!
The Marketplace section of XDA has been only open for a short time. There are currently 8 potential users in our community who have been ripped off and may not be capable of receiving their payments back and/or punishing the people that scammed them. There also exist a number of buyers that await their devices to be received but the sellers have not contacted them.
There are several benefits of selling on XDA and there are many drawbacks. Please let me remind you that this is a developers (or those interested in the processes, aka users like me) forum. Please take the time to reflect the benefits and the drawbacks and vote.
I know the poll results will lean towards keeping the Marketplace open because those who visit this section on a regular would want to keep using it as a resource. Yet there are many on this site that still do not have any idea that this marketplace exist, simply because they bookmark their device's section.
Please vote after reading the Fraud Thread,Thank You.
If you have new guidelines that will help deter criminals from scamming our members please post. Please note, your suggestions may be criticized.
My vote to third option. I dont believe in throwing the baby with the bath water. Everything faces problem in the beginning, so is this marketplace. Let's make it a better place.
Just because the Marketplace isn't open doesn't mean XDA won't be used for transactions between users. With the Marketplace, the transactions are more public and I bet that being open and public actually cuts down on scams.
|Jason8| said:
Just because the Marketplace isn't open doesn't mean XDA won't be used for transactions between users. With the Marketplace, the transactions are more public and I bet that being open and public actually cuts down on scams.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I completely agree with your opinion. What do you think about banning device sale transactions altogether?
Just like XDA bans warez but obviously users can PM each other regarding warez.
I would think that there is a way to keep the market section open, yet make it safer. I don't think it is XDA's responsibility to make sure every transaction is 100% safe, not even eBay can do that. I don't even think it is responsible to go above and beyond "buyer/seller beware". But I know this communitty and to simply leave it at "stock" isn't an option.
It has proven true that it is hard to identify a good scammer. Post counts, length of membership, and so forth have all proven indicators of trustworthiness, but not a guarantee. And while a guarantee surely isn't possible in reality, I know it is always the goal of those in this communitty to get it right and as close to perfect as possible.
I am currently trying to sell a couple phones, and half my worry is that people have enough trust and faith in me to feel comfortable buying from me. The other half is that I find a legit buyer. I can't even image being the actual buyer!
I feel that stricter guidelines and oversight will go a long way, although likely more time consuming as well. Perhaps making it so new listings have to get approved? And setting criteria for approval asking for photographic proof that the item exists? As well, maybe create an XDA paypal account, where the buyer pays XDA, and upon shipping confirmation/ receipt confirmation the funds are then transfered to the seller? This would put a lot of liability on XDA, which might not be plausable.
Ultimately, buyer and seller beware is and always will be the most important rule.
may555 said:
Although opening the market place means that many problems exist,which is seller make slow response to buying,I may strengthen to monitor.Opening the market place may improve the dynamic of the forum.
If you want to savvy more information about mobile phone, please come to [scamlink]
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
And you give a link to a Kirf phone site... shakes head... maybe we can also look into strengthening membership requirements/ process?
XDA can't take guarantee for anything that happens in marketplace, that is something ebay doesn't take inspite of such a heavy fee amount they charge. I feel xda is the best way to share things like pocket pc phones in like minded people to get the get value for both buyer & seller. It would be there no matter you have the marketplace or not. Marketplace has provided outlet to all such dealings.
We can ponder over how to make it more secure, but giving marketplace an existential threat is not I am in agreement with.
Marketplace open!!
As I said before,
All transactions between particulars on the WWW have some risk.
If you are not willing to take that risk please do not use marketplace and go and buy to a regular store!
You should be aware that if you want to buy cheap there is always a risk!
Let´s continue with marketplace!!
I noticed that some other sites require you to have a certain post count before posting/viewing the market place. This could cut the scammers out as it would require them to first be active in the community before being able to post.
Keep the market place.. I have used it for purchasing more than 1 phone, and lucky for me, my experiance here has been fantastic... I think people should pay for their transactions using a credit card... even with PayPal.. You can pay with credit card there.. That way if you are scammed and do no receive what you payed for, open up a dispute with both your credit card company as well as paypal.. evne if paypal can not "collect" anything, you credit card can cancel the transaction all together and take the money from paypal... (which will, in turn, make them want to look for the money a little harder, and even possibley bring up legal action againt the fraud monger!) In closing, KEEP THE MARKET PLACE...
I totally agree with 'Teej53214' and have voted for option 1.
I don't see why XDA should shoulder any responsibilty, nor have to police the marketplace,
since with all online dealing it is the buyers responsibility, not XDA's, to take adequate steps to protect himself.
as such, using a credit card is far the best way.
Yes, but at what point? A spammer will get a couple hundred posts in a few minutes, where as a legit member might not in a couple years.
As well, one of the most infamous scams thus far was carried out by a member with over 1000 posts, and 2 years of community involvement.
I noticed that some other sites require you to have a certain post count before posting/viewing the market place. This could cut the scammers out as it would require them to first be active in the community before being able to post.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
there already is a post count limit, i.e 30+ Posts, a seller less than post isent allowed to sell, and his thread is deleted
Ather said:
there already is a post count limit, i.e 30+ Posts, a seller less than post isent allowed to sell, and his thread is deleted
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Can we not delete it? Someone may suggest a new guideline, which could be useful for both seller/buyer
I may be new here, but i feel i'll be around for a while. I feel the Market Place is a great idea for everyone, but some guildlines should be improved for everyoens experience.
I feel that the suggestions (option 3?) would to invoke a Post Count Requirement, but to add to this a review (to enter into the market place) must be made by an admin to make sure all posts to that post count are not spam to scam.
I also feel that the market place should incorporate some kind of market system. I know there's plugins for vBulletin that would allow such a thing, or better yet, force all users to mediate through another site for sales (eBay?). This way we'll know they're scammers...
ie if someone posts a acution on eBay for the sole purpose to sell an item (Buy it now at discolsed price in forum) and they're new user on eBay then more caution flags are thrown up... (Could use many other auction sites, etc).
Edit:
Maybe enforce some kind of physical conversation about products as well, phone call, etc?
Just my $.02
Keep it open.
I agree with what has been said. Use Paypal with a Credit card. Ivé have to open a dispute (not here) via Paypal and in the end I just contacted my credit card holder that refunded the payment.
Force users to have X many posts, visits or time from registering+posts before they can post in the marketplace.
skuliaxe said:
Keep it open.
I agree with what has been said. Use Paypal with a Credit card. Ivé have to open a dispute (not here) via Paypal and in the end I just contacted my credit card holder that refunded the payment.
Force users to have X many posts, visits or time from registering+posts before they can post in the marketplace.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
As Ather stated, there is a 30 post count limit. I do not see it documented anywhere maybe I skipped over it. Anyhow, I am positive there is a vbulletin plugin or add-on that restricts users under a set limit of posts to be capable of accessing the marketplace section.
redbandana said:
As Ather stated, there is a 30 post count limit. I do not see it documented anywhere maybe I skipped over it. Anyhow, I am positive there is a vbulletin plugin or add-on that restricts users under a set limit of posts to be capable of accessing the marketplace section.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Ok, instead of making this thread about something that's not right let's take this wonderful opportunity to make it work.
We are open for suggestions
Who would think being a non-junior member OR being an XDA member for more then one year is appropriate/enough? Remember we are trying to scare the scammers off not everybody
Feel free to add to the list,
12
12aon said:
Ok, instead of making this thread about something that's not right let's take this wonderful opportunity to make it work.
We are open for suggestions
Who would think being a non-junior member OR being an XDA member for more then one year is appropriate/enough? Remember we are trying to scare the scammers off not everybody
Feel free to add to the list,
12
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I would like to repeat my suggestions: I was once really involved at notebookreview and this is how we ran things
1. Require a set form for selling and buying. http://forum.notebookreview.com/showthread.php?t=243274
2. Require a picture with proof of ownership. (a photo of the item with a piece of paper containing the username and a dated newspaper)
3. Require feedback sources: Amazon, ebay, heatware.
4. Reference previous sales. (some sort of internal feedback system)
I think this can help make the Marketplace a bit safer to everyone involved.
12aon said:
Ok, instead of making this thread about something that's not right let's take this wonderful opportunity to make it work.
We are open for suggestions
Who would think being a non-junior member OR being an XDA member for more then one year is appropriate/enough? Remember we are trying to scare the scammers off not everybody
Feel free to add to the list,
12
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Both of those could be restrictive to real sellers, and not actually scare off scammers.
The spam guys will get a couple hundred posts really quickly. If you toss in a 1 year time limit type thing, then people that are active, like me, wouldn't even be able to sell because I haven't been a member for over a year.
I think we should ask sellers to post at least 5 pics, with their username and a newspaper pictured in one. As well, they need to send their contact info to the section mod. They also need to put a random word picked by the mod and PM to them on the piece of paper with their username on it. Only then would the post actually be made public.
As well, you can ask that they also have shown themself a member of this community, either through length of time here, post count, etc., but subject to the mods descretion.
As a member of XDA i am proud that there is a place where people, ideas and developers can come together to work out problems and create new, better, faster software.
I love the ideas and the creations here, but i am somewhat tired of the negativity and "flaming" going on in some of the forums. Specifically Samsung Galaxy forums, with each passing day/week there is an exponentially increasing amount of NEW THREADS, pretty much dedicated to venting anger at the phone's manufacturer. While some claims do have merit (crappy GPS), other complaints are ill-researched, (samsung to blame for not releasing froyo, how did rogers release it to me?).
There was even a "Supposed" samsung rep. SamsungJohn, who reached out to the captivate community on the behalf of Samsung. (once again supposedly) If he was in fact from samsung he received the WORST welcome from the community, he was badgered and hammered with anger before given a chance to explain what his goal/role here was. In a recent post it was referred to him "stepping on the XDA hornets nest". Honestly it looked more like a forum full of angry 10 year olds, although to be COMPLETELY FAIR, 99% of the members "flaming" (to SamsungJohn or in other posts) ARE NOT DEVELOPERS OR PROGRAMMERS just bored people that feel XDA is a good place to vent anger. IT IS NOT.
If you have actual hardware problems with your phone, flood the manufacturers forum NOT OURS! If they had as many complaint posts as we do on a public forum they wouldn't be able to deny any issues exist, you could link to them, they would be right there, ON THEIR SITE.
I love my phone, for any flaws it has, any other phone will have another, sometimes we can fix it here, sometimes we cant. It is understandable in this day and age that many times products are rushed out the door and moved on to the next. Its the world we live in today. Accept it or check out..
Please remember XDA is a place to come together for ideas and working out problems NOT NEEDLESSLY COMPLAINING ABOUT THEM!!!
Speak my man!Perhaps that is the most right opinion I've seen on the forums!
PS:Love your PC setup dude!If it had a 69xxHD ATi it would be my dream machine!
Peace, love, harmony. Everyone, repeat. Hehe.
There will always be flaming. We have pretty diligent moderators that find the offending members and take proper action. Everyone can help out here just by being nice to one another. This is a community. A community benefits when its citizens are helpful, friendly, and contributive.
Well said! The forum needs more people to be constructive in their postings rather than petulant and needy.
This OP should have his post stickied in all the galaxy S forums IMO.
mputtr said:
This OP should have his post stickied in all the galaxy S forums IMO.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
if i was a moderator or web dev of this site the message would pop up, and you would have to agree before veiwing the forums!
I know its been getting bad. But they have stepped up and got more moderators. So it will get better. Plus all the new devices that keep getting added. So much for everyone to keeo up with. Thats why as you know the report post is there. Helps alot.
@OP, I couldn't agree more with you, with the recent influx of new users into XDA via their new purchases and nearly everyone owning a smartphone we will have to adapt to them and their misconceptions of what XDA is. Although they may misunderstand what we are about we are always trying to show them what our roots were and still are today. We try to keep it under control to the best of out abilities, but with a ratio of moderators to members being 40:1,000,000 it can be an uphill battle at times. Thanks for sharing your opinion and we hope to improve down the road.
yes, i have been using the "REPORT" button, on an increasing basis.
is there by any chance at least a single moderator dedicated to each phone, with experience with that device to know what is un-related/ garbage information/threads.
also some threads deserve deletion rather than closing. just wasting space with usually no information what-soever
Trusselo said:
yes, i have been using the "REPORT" button, on an increasing basis.
is there by any chance at least a single moderator dedicated to each phone, with experience with that device to know what is un-related/ garbage information/threads.
also some threads deserve deletion rather than closing. just wasting space with usually no information what-soever
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
yep, we have this in place. They are called Forum Specific Moderators, and have a title like
"HTC XYZ Forum Moderator"
They are responsible for a small number of forums, to try and spot this stuff
Im not sure if i have come across my "captivate" mod, is there any easy way to find the mod for your forum? could an easy way be added? link in each phone's forum? (for issues PM...)
Trusselo said:
Im not sure if i have come across my "captivate" mod, is there any easy way to find the mod for your forum? could an easy way be added? link in each phone's forum? (for issues PM...)
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yep, though it seems the assigned mod for your forum was recently promoted, and therefore there is no "assigned" mod right now. When you get one, their name will appear at the lower right of any of the general/dev subforums.
pulser_g2 said:
Yep, though it seems the assigned mod for your forum was recently promoted, and therefore there is no "assigned" mod right now. When you get one, their name will appear at the lower right of any of the general/dev subforums.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
well that explains a lot
Hopefully we get a new mod soon!
Herp Derp Captivate XDA
Even with the influx of immature morons, this place is still two thousand times more coherent and mature than any iPhone modification related forum.
I swear, all I see over on those boards are a bunch of people crying and cursing and yelling and making threats because jailbreaks and unlocks are slow to release.
I am loving your new member posts, very informative and a great way to get informed about this site!
Agreement
I completely agree with you man.
I think we need two things,
First of all, people who respect the earth and its benefits.
And secondly, some respectful people who watch and guide people who don't know the value of being beneficial and so respectful, one by one.
---------- Post added at 09:05 AM ---------- Previous post was at 08:49 AM ----------
I really consist with this oppinion that an improved society just can born and keep on by everyone's usefull endeavour. In the other word a wise intellectual man/woman cann't grow up and even say a little bit of his/her knowledge in a tidy palce.
So, be in the way and enjoy your home.
Hopping success and enhancement.
I could not agree with you more.
Sent from my GT-S5360 using XDA
This is the truest thing in the world. Been happening a lot on my devices forum, the flaming amongst members and devs.
It just shouldn't happen
I have noticed that in the Galaxy Tab Forum, It must the target demographic that the device attracts as owners. I Joke obviously, I don't want to attract any unwanted attention
I think XDA suffers a little bit from how big it is. It's probably before a lot of manufacturers sites on search result for what ever normal people type into Google and with 4.5 million members you're going to attract a wide cross section of humanity......There might even be some women on here Nah There's no women on the internet.
Speaking of XDA being a place of coming together and solving problems, let me throw a couple out there
Maybe there should stop new members creating threads on any forum.... drill it home to use the site properly. I think slatedroid or one of the forums focused towards the more "exotic" Android devices does that. Frustrating though that might be it will make people think is it really worth the effort, You could measure a members "dedication" by not only post but visit frequency and what types of posts they view, so even if they feel they cannot help with replies they still get to post eventually. Although that last sentence makes XDA sound like a bit of a cult.
That would probably have stop me from posting my first though (Ironically a Samsung Galaxy Tab external SDCard booting method) but you win some/you lose some
In Fact If you want to get a little more draconian. you could introduce perma-bans for all sorts of minor indiscretions such as anyone who post the words "vs" In a thread title as we don't really need another thread about who's dog barks the loudest, anyone complaining about lack of support from the manufacturer, there are more but they escape me now
So in summary. PermaBan The Lot Of Em'
trevd said:
I have noticed that in the Galaxy Tab Forum, It must the target demographic that the device attracts as owners. I Joke obviously, I don't want to attrach any unwanted attention
I think XDA suffers a little bit from how big it is. It's probably before a lot of manufacturers sites on search result for what ever normal people type into Google and with 4.5 million members you're going to attract a wide cross section of humanity......There might even be some women on here Nah There's no women on the internet.
Speaking of XDA being a place of coming together and solving problems, let me throw a couple out there
Maybe there should stop new members creating threads on any forum.... drill it home to use the site properly. I think slatedroid or one of the forums focused towards the more "exotic" Android devices does that. Frustrating though that might be it will make people think is it really worth the effort, You could measure a members "dedication" by not only post but visit frequency and what types of posts they view, so even if they feel they cannot help with replies they still get to post eventually. Although that last sentence makes XDA sound like a bit of a cult.
That would probably have stop me from posting my first though (Ironically a Samsung Galaxy Tab external SDCard booting method) but you win some/you lose some
In Fact If you want to get a little more draconian. you could introduce perma-bans for all sorts of minor indiscretions such as anyone who post the words "vs" In a thread title as we don't really need another thread about who's dog barks the loudest, anyone complaining about lack of support from the manufacturer, there are more but they escape me now
So in summary. PermaBan The Lot Of Em'
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Hi, I am new to XDA, and I just wanted to express my admiration of your ideas, as well as to the OP, truly a superb insight.
Idea: There should be a demarcation of topics and subforums known as the Noob forums. Unless and until you contribute something OTHER than a post (eg, a ROM, theme, or hack perhaps), you remain in the Noob forums.
Good idea?
Sent from my LG-VM701 using Tapatalk 2
Lately we have seen many users been scammed over here,, and with the lack of stickies its really difficult to know if the trader was bad or good for scams( had that recently where a member had scammed another member, and then one day he PM'd me asking to trade, but i was aware of it, but others may not be.) no ppl are getting banned who cheat on this forum. We need a mod who has traded before and just for this section, i dont think its hard to have one mod here who can delete threads, ban users who misuse the MP, make stickies on threads which have disputes, he can also act as a middle man if the User's chooses to. if you support me along this road, then please reply so we can have one
I agree. I've done a couple trades both on Hofo and Xda and I feel at times it is really nice to be able to trade, but often worried if the deal will go bad or not. It'd be nice to be able to know if the other person is reputible and if I was talking to another scammer.
It'd be nice to have some sort of system to prevent all the inconsistancy of having shady sellers.
Cheeze[iT] said:
I agree. I've done a couple trades both on Hofo and Xda and I feel at times it is really nice to be able to trade, but often worried if the deal will go bad or not. It'd be nice to be able to know if the other person is reputible and if I was talking to another scammer.
It'd be nice to have some sort of system to prevent all the inconsistancy of having shady sellers.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
yeah we need it, he could also verify the IP address is not of a scammer or near by.
I agree aswell although I've only done two trades here both of which wer successful there's always a bad apple out there ready to scam some unfortunate person and I personally think we should be doing everything we can to prevent it
Sent from my HTC HD2 using XDA App
it wont happen, there is no reason for a 3rd party, or a member of xda community to take on that role, and then possibly be at fault.
ie.
why complicate it more than it needs to be.
A feedback system may work, but never a 3rd party.
IMHO.
37 transactions and counting, xda only.
killster
it would be great ive wanted to offer on sum trades just have been kinda checking things out to see who is legit because we know everyone is not trust worthy
I think a Feedback system will be more helpful than moderators. Having feedback and mod will be even better.
Ya we need feedback, it will make checking someones transaction history very easy.
On my Suzuki Hayabusa forum you must have 50 posts to sell something - this is easily done with a simple vbulletin mod. The mod makes it possible for someone with less than 50 posts to browse and post in a thread in the "for sale" forums, but impossible to start a thread. I know you might think it's easy for someone to signup and post 50 times, but members notice that pretty damn quick - and we ban anyone who tries. We also have iTrader (another vbulletin mod) and once a sale is completed one of my Admins will post and ask the buyer and seller to post feedback.
The fact that people sell $6000+ motorcycles makes it a necessity to police and manage the "for sale" forums to the best of our ability for the protection of my members.
But people also sell $20 items, and we ban ANYONE who scams another member - this includes sponsors.
biggeorgef said:
But people also sell $20 items, and we ban ANYONE who scams another member - this includes sponsors.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
i deeply agree with this one , there should be zero tolerance , no posting suspension , no infractions , just insta-ban
pinstack.com has a "trust" meter, I've found it very useful at times. Plus this gives a better all-around feel for someone instead of just what's gone on in the marketplace.
http://forums.pinstack.com/trust.php
How about for now, we try and get people to use HeatWare? You can build a rep that's damn hard to fake.
There is always someone willing to take the role and help out.
Furthermore we have a "thanks" system, so I don't see it being too difficult to add some sort of "trust" system as previously mentioned. Though if there is an acceptable volunteer for thread mod, that would be a good idea too.
I also vouch for heatware. Great service and have used it on many forum trades sections.
or post names of scammers until mods start banning them.
TheAndroider
iDroidfan
Sent from my Dell Streak 7 using XDA Premium App
Plus guys get scammed when they do things in private. Keep as much as possible public and you are safer since everyone reads the posts and someone will know if one of the parties is bogus.
Sent from my Dell Streak 7 using XDA Premium App
i suggest rules(vBulletin mod) to be able to use marketplace:
1.over 50 posts
2. member for atleast 6months
in addition to:
1.transparency-every single deal should be public, pm's allowed for chatting etc, but all conditions, offers etc will be sellers&buyers thing to do in their thread(go public if you don't wanna get scammed)
2.bans for people (proved)scamming-hasn't been on xda 1 week from bogus deal, didn't respond buyer's PM's, sent fake/empty product etc
3.more mods assinged to this part of forum-"too good to be true" offers will be removed/reported in short period of time, preventing anyone to reply, and could be reactivated when seller responds to mod's pm and proves he's legit and has item for sale(especially first few sales)
4. whitelist of members who made over 20 deals succsessfully in longer period of time, separate items, with higher value(not sending 20 e.g. batteries at once).
killster said:
it wont happen, there is no reason for a 3rd party, or a member of xda community to take on that role, and then possibly be at fault.
ie.
why complicate it more than it needs to be.
A feedback system may work, but never a 3rd party.
IMHO.
37 transactions and counting, xda only.
killster
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Do those 37 count the ones you committed to and then backed out of killster? Seems mlee and i are not the only ones. Not the same as scamming but questionable nonetheless.
As per Marketplacer Rule #1:
The XDA-Developers.com Market Place, hereafter MP, is provided free to members with at least 8 posts at XDA-Developers.com. XDA-Developers.com, its moderators, administrators, owners and legal advisors do not warrant, guarantee or endorse any item offered for sale or trade on this forum.
SIMPLE ENGLISH: Trade at your own Risk.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
We have many Senior moderators who actively monitor the Marketplace forum We don't need anymore.
XDA will not get actively involved in a Marketplace dispute under normal circumstances. And we will never act as a "middle man". The above quoted rule underlines this.
Just to elaborate on what the_scotsman says above.
There are resource issues in providing checks on those trading in the Marketplace. We simply don't have these resources in terms of people to monitor trades, or systems to test or validate Users.
Equally, we do not have the resources to investigate when things go wrong. Inevitably in such cases, there will be conflicting accounts of what has happened and we have no way to prove or disprove the claims that are made by the parties in dispute. This is not an area with which we would ever suggest we can become involved.
Just occassionally we will disable the account of a member if there are repeated claims that purchased items have not been received, but Users should NEVER assume that we are checking sellers, because we are not.
We have no plans to bring in a checking system because with the resources we have, we simply wish to provide a basic noticeboard for sellers and a forum for threads where the transaction can be conducted in public. We do not Moderate the Marketplace except in a very cursory way, because it cannot be done reliably and more importantly it would give the FALSE impression that we were checking and validating the trades and sales in the Forum; in other words it might make buyers feel more secure in buying and yet the risk is ALL theirs.
It may be possible for us to implement some kind of User rating system whereby Users, not Moderators or Admin, can rate a Member according to how well or badly a sale/trade has gone. I understand this is being considered. Nevertheless, it would still be "buyer beware!".
If you are looking to buy and want guarantees and insurance if things go wrong, then our Marketplace Forum is not the place to buy! That said, if you are tempted to buy, then it may be possible for you to carry out some checks yourself, by looking at post history, previous sales if any and perhaps even a few checks using Google. You might also prefer to deal only with Members you have known over many months, even years!
Mike
FIRST OF ALL, THIS THREAD IS IN NO WAY INTENDED TO BE NEGATIVE TOWARDS XDA!
When I get interested in something and look for a forum on the subject, I look for the BEST forum on the subject. When I became interested in Android phones and looked for a forum, in became obvious to me VERY quickly that XDA was THE superior forum by far; but what 'superior' means is, I think, what I would like this discussion to be about...
It was quickly obvious to me that XDA was the forum where the developers were. This, in itself, made XDA the superior forum, obviously it seemed to me. Having access to developers is certainly a priceless ability to have. Also, AFIK, new developments tend to get posted on XDA before other Android forums (though, I must admit, while I am familiar with some other Android forums, I very rarely visit them, other that by occasional Google search results, and even then, I try to seek out XDA results).
I would certainly NOT say this is the best Android forum for new users who are unwilling to search or use their brain, however new users, even if N00b's, will do fine if they respect the standard protocols.
HOWEVER... I have recently begun to wonder... is this the best Android forum to get help with your questions? If you want to question a dev on XDA about one of his/her apps, then probably yes, but what about more GENERAL questions? Is XDA really more oriented towards higher issues, such as app development?
I personally enjoy helping people with their questions, but I have found difficulty with getting responses to my questions sometimes. I feel certain that there are users on XDA that would KNOW the answer to my question, but of course, I am well aware they have better things to do with their time than answer my questions (which means no disrespect) which the likely never even see.
As I say, I have visited the other Android forums very little. I am wondering if those forums are a better place for these general types of questions? So, I welcome a discussion on anyone's opinion on other Android forums vs XDA...
I moved this here. It is probably a better place for this type of discussion
mark manning said:
I moved this here. It is probably a better place for this type of discussion
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I agree, thanks, but I don't want to create any friction between mods (see my PM).
I will not bite you, however you respond!
Well Mark, I thought it was a very valid and interesting topic for discussion, and since you moved it here I think you agreed with me, but unfortunately, we seem to be the only two people who feel that way?
Are there users here who feel that there are OTHER users here who would be better served on OTHER Android forums? I am in no way attempting to reduce the XDA user base, but as I said, I think this is obviously the ELITE forum (which DOES NOT necessarily mean exclusionary), but to my mind at least, many users here who likely have their minds on higher things than answering relatively simple questions, which might be more welcome on OTHER Android forums. OR... I could be wrong... as I mentioned, I have spent little time on other Android forums, but I have noticed that certain Google searches I make return top results from forums OTHER than XDA (though GENERALLY I find XDA gets the top results).
SO... anyone care to express any opinions on this, pro or con? Now is your change to make your opinion known.
(OH... and if rating my own thread 5 stars is bad form... tough titty said the kitty...)
rsngfrce said:
Well Mark, I thought it was a very valid and interesting topic for discussion, and since you moved it here I think you agreed with me, but unfortunately, we seem to be the only two people who feel that way?
Are there users here who feel that there are OTHER users here who would be better served on OTHER Android forums? I am in no way attempting to reduce the XDA user base, but as I said, I think this is obviously the ELITE forum (which DOES NOT necessarily mean exclusionary), but to my mind at least, many users here who likely have their minds on higher things than answering relatively simple questions, which might be more welcome on OTHER Android forums. OR... I could be wrong... as I mentioned, I have spent little time on other Android forums, but I have noticed that certain Google searches I make return top results from forums OTHER than XDA (though GENERALLY I find XDA gets the top results).
SO... anyone care to express any opinions on this, pro or con? Now is your change to make your opinion known.
(OH... and if rating my own thread 5 stars is bad form... tough titty said the kitty...)
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Well I'm new here myself and I've found it's relatively easy to find information here. The forums seems pretty active. It's a lot better than Bitcointalk that's for sure.. I haven't seen a bigger cesspool of trolls of fud anywhere on the new lol
As I've been here for about 3 and a half years (roughly a year as just a visitor) and am a staff member here, I'm clearly leaning more towards XDA being the best Android forum.
Before I found my way to XDA, I had signed up to a fair few other Android forums (being a mixture of general Android and some more development focused) and for some reason I just didn't stick around. Some of the forums were simply a mess but others weren't too bad. Most of the time, I didn't become active on those forums purely because it didn't feel right, I guess.
In regards to general questions, there's definitely a place for them here. Obviously we are more focused on development than general Android questions but we'll still support those anyway.
If you look through any of the device forums you'll notice that the majority of questions are normally about rooting/unlocking the boot loader of that particular device but there are still a lot of standard questions being asked as well.
With you not getting answers to your questions, it's more likely due to not being in an active enough forum or not being seen by the right people rather than people not answering purely because it's not as technical as other questions might be.
KidCarter93 said:
As I've been here for about 3 and a half years (roughly a year as just a visitor) and am a staff member here, I'm clearly leaning more towards XDA being the best Android forum.
Before I found my way to XDA, I had signed up to a fair few other Android forums (being a mixture of general Android and some more development focused) and for some reason I just didn't stick around. Some of the forums were simply a mess but others weren't too bad. Most of the time, I didn't become active on those forums purely because it didn't feel right, I guess.
In regards to general questions, there's definitely a place for them here. Obviously we are more focused on development than general Android questions but we'll still support those anyway.
If you look through any of the device forums you'll notice that the majority of questions are normally about rooting/unlocking the boot loader of that particular device but there are still a lot of standard questions being asked as well.
With you not getting answers to your questions, it's more likely due to not being in an active enough forum or not being seen by the right people rather than people not answering purely because it's not as technical as other questions might be.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
As I said from the beginning, it was obvious to me very quickly that XDA was far and away the BEST Android forum. That is why I chose it and though I did register on one or two other forums, I have rarely ever visited them (other than, as I mentioned, through Google searches).
For best discussion purposes, I don't think we should focus on my specific issues with getting questions answered (even though they did somewhat provoke this thread). I have a Sprint Galaxy S4, not an unpopular phone or inactive forum, and I feel I am able to express my issues relatively well. However, I finally left that forum with my question, having gotten nowhere (though my issue is VERY unusual) and went to the general Galaxy S4 forum, and received the best help I have received from a user from outside the USA who was totally unfamiliar with Sprint system software, but made general recommendations that I found greatly helpful. However, I am just one person and I digress somewhat...
I would think it would be fair to say that XDA is NOT the best Android forum for users who want to be spoon-fed (unless, perhaps, they limit themselves to N00B friendly threads)... I am personally not as annoyed by these types of people as many are, but I certainly see many here who are (how often do you see, "read the OP")... I was recently following a thread where a new user kept being referred to the OP, even though clearly it WAS NOT answering his question (which was outside of my personal knowledge, though I did try). Perhaps there are better Android forums for these types of people (not referring to the person in the last example) than XDA?
OR... maybe just send them to one of zepplinrox' threads :laugh::laugh::laugh::laugh::laugh:
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showpost.php?p=32472429&postcount=15372
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showpost.php?p=32475760&postcount=15374
All forums are good since they are all providing free tutorials which help the users .
The only advantage xda has is that the OWNERS do their best to keep the forum up , thing which require a good paid server and monthly payments .. other forum owners simply do not afford paying for the fees each month from the simple reason that once the visitors are getting big in numbers the forum server also do require some server updates . So thanks XDA owners for keeping this forum up !!
alin razvan said:
...The only advantage xda has is that the OWNERS do their best to keep the forum up...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
WOW... you're leaving yourself a little wide open with that comment I think...
(No offense intended...)
People seem to forget XDA is not a support forum. It never has been.
As the motto says: "For Developers, By Developers".
the_scotsman said:
People seem to forget XDA is not a support forum. It never has been.
As the motto says: "For Developers, By Developers".
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Now that's the kind of strong opinion I was looking for! :good: (Whether we choose to agree or disagree...)
the_scotsman said:
People seem to forget XDA is not a support forum. It never has been.
As the motto says: "For Developers, By Developers".
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Actually, that was exactly the response I wanted to hear when I started this thread (and from a MOD too!). It is not for me to say whether that is right or wrong (or for anyone else to say, IMO), everyone is entitled to their opinion, that is why I started this thread. But I guess I am interested in what percentage of users here feel that way? I am SURE it is a larger percentage than at other Android forums. However, that may be made somewhat irrelevant by this forum having (I AM ASSUMING) a larger user base than the other Android forums, so when that percentage is removed, there are still more users here interested in supporting others. And, of course, I am not saying this is or is not a support forum. Opinions are what I want! :good:
(TOTALLY IRRELEVANT QUESTION for the_scotsman, haggis muncher from Australia: I go to the Scottish Highland Gathering & Games in Pleasanton California every year and I am mystified as to how the didgeridoo seems to have become a Scottish instrument... know anything about this?)
rsngfrce said:
(TOTALLY IRRELEVANT QUESTION for the_scotsman, haggis muncher from Australia: I go to the Scottish Highland Gathering & Games in Pleasanton California every year and I am mystified as to how the didgeridoo seems to have become a Scottish instrument... know anything about this?)
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
hah! I have no idea to be honest! Seems to be a sort of link between Scottish bands using didgeridoos for some reason...perhaps because they sound good played together with bagpipes :good: