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I'm researching to buy a smartphone and considering the investment involved I would rather make the right choice. With this in mind I do have a few questions for those who already have a unit in hand.
I'm curious as to the Rhodium's GPS performance when used without the AGPS fonction, or any similar mode requiring use of GPRS/EDGE/3G.
The reason is quite simple: my work takes me abroad very often and as you all know data roaming fees are insanely high. Therefore I would like to be able to use my future smartphone (possible the Rhodium) without incurring said fees.
I have no problem with downloading satellite information once in a while via wifi or active synch connection on the other hand.
So, what kind of performance does the Rhodium offer in my scenario? Would I be plagued with low accuracy and insanely high fix time like some of the other HTC models or can I expect usable performances?
Thx!
Pat
P.S. As a side question, how reliable is the "nodata.cab" file to kill gprs/edge/3G connection? Can I expect it to reliably completely disable my cellular data connection or does it "crap out" sometimes?
This will be my first winmo, so I don't have 1st hand experience with nodata--I have downloaded it preparation though, as I plan not to buy a data plan. However, screenshots of the TP2's setup screen seem to indicate you can shut off the data radio without it, so it might not even be necessary. Nodata works by editing the winmo registry entries, so if it works at all on a device, in theory, it should work consistently.
GPS over Wi-Fi only works perfectly.
Pat007 said:
I'm researching to buy a smartphone and considering the investment involved I would rather make the right choice. With this in mind I do have a few questions for those who already have a unit in hand.
I'm curious as to the Rhodium's GPS performance when used without the AGPS fonction, or any similar mode requiring use of GPRS/EDGE/3G.
The reason is quite simple: my work takes me abroad very often and as you all know data roaming fees are insanely high. Therefore I would like to be able to use my future smartphone (possible the Rhodium) without incurring said fees.
I have no problem with downloading satellite information once in a while via wifi or active synch connection on the other hand.
So, what kind of performance does the Rhodium offer in my scenario? Would I be plagued with low accuracy and insanely high fix time like some of the other HTC models or can I expect usable performances?
Thx!
Pat
P.S. As a side question, how reliable is the "nodata.cab" file to kill gprs/edge/3G connection? Can I expect it to reliably completely disable my cellular data connection or does it "crap out" sometimes?
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Click to collapse
The GPS receiver in the Rhodium is better than the Fuze and on par with the Pure (from my experience). A lot of the GPS performance will be affected by which radio is installed, but for the most part, almost any one of them will give reasonable GPS performance.
You will notice somewhat of a lag (depending upon your location and the strength of available satellites) to getting the 'first fix'/lock after a soft reset. The soft reset essentially wipes out the GPS receivers memory as which satellites are available and has to start from scratch, downloading the almanac from whatever satelites it can find. This can take up to 12 minutes, but most people are finding it takes a lot less time. For me, if I'm outside, it usually takes about 5 minutes or less for 'first fix'. After that, time to a fix is usually in a matter of seconds after turning on the GPS receiver.
Using the QuickGPS and other such tools, which download satellite data from various internet sites, can help somewhat, but I haven't found it making a huge amount of difference.
I have no idea what my esteemed colleague means by 'GPS over WiFi'.
I don't have data, so the first thing I do is go to:
start/settings/connections/connections/advanced/select networks and make sure that both tabs have "my work network" selected.
Either that, or call your provider and tell them.you would like to have data blocked on the phone line (if you're able). Both work.
With regard to the GPS, it's hit or miss at times. Sometimes it's up withing seconds, other times within 5-10 minutes (most likely after a reset).
Go with igo8...worth it.
The gps is not very good atleast it is not working very well in my phone.
I tried using cardio trainer. And the gps jumps about. Plus the gps signal shown is very low can anyone put their phone gps through the paces and then tell me should I ask for a replacement or its in all phones
Mines fine.
Mine works fine, GPS is actually pretty good as navigation tells you the road names..!
Dopedangel said:
The gps is not very good atleast it is not working very well in my phone.
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Can you clarify if you're talking about hardware or software?
And did you compare GS with other GPS at the very same time and place?
I too am seeing poor performance with the GPS. Seems to be a hardware issue.
I did a test over the weekend comparing my Galaxy S with a friend's HTC Desire. Using one of the many GPS utilities the Desire was consistently seeing and locking more satellites when stood in an open area outside. When running Google maps and showing the current location I found that the "accuracy circle" (for want of a better description) was growing and shrinking several times a minute causing the map to zoom in and out.
I've also noticed that the compass is almost unusable and showing a much lower signal compared to the Desire. I did perform the figure of 8 calibration several times.
Not tried the GPS yet, but I'm amazed how accurate network location is on this thing.
On my old G1 network location was laughable, but this thing knows pretty much exactly where it is without GPS.
MarvinTheAndroid said:
Not tried the GPS yet, but I'm amazed how accurate network location is on this thing.
On my old G1 network location was laughable, but this thing knows pretty much exactly where it is without GPS.
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probably having wifi on? google can locate you more precise cause it has registered every wifi network during the streetview picture taking.
tommy34 said:
probably having wifi on? google can locate you more precise cause it has registered every wifi network during the streetview picture taking.
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No, this is with wifi turned off.
tommy34 said:
probably having wifi on? google can locate you more precise cause it has registered every wifi network during the streetview picture taking.
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Click to collapse
Lol what kind of anti-google propaganda have you been reading?
Google streetview cars collected data of open wifi networks.
Besides from the fact that google doesn't use the data (which it isn't allowed to have), there are by far not enough open wifi networks to find your location.
Also. You have to have at least 3 networks to be able to determine a location using wifi access points.
So the statement you just made is rubbish and ofcourse nonsense...
BasieP said:
Lol what kind of anti-google propaganda have you been reading?
Google streetview cars collected data of open wifi networks.
Besides from the fact that google doesn't use the data (which it isn't allowed to have), there are by far not enough open wifi networks to find your location.
Also. You have to have at least 3 networks to be able to determine a location using wifi access points.
So the statement you just made is rubbish and ofcourse nonsense...
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i dont care about it, i like it.
hmm. just figured this because where i live there arent any open networks and with wifi on it knows my exact location. Without wifi it has a 1600 m radius.
The GPS seems to work flawlessly for me at least.
BasieP said:
Google streetview cars collected data of open wifi networks. Besides from the fact that google doesn't use the data (which it isn't allowed to have), there are by far not enough open wifi networks to find your location.
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Click to collapse
Google collected the SSID and MAC addresses for all of the wifi networks they found, with the explicit intention of using them as an additional source of location data. They also inadvertently collected more data from open networks, and that's what they're in trouble for.
googleblog.blogspot.com/2010/05/wifi-data-collection-update.html
yes and the new google navigation api in the i9000 and android appears to use this data as the damn thing turns on your wifi even when off when gps tries to get a fix!
lgkahn said:
yes and the new google navigation api in the i9000 and android appears to use this data as the damn thing turns on your wifi even when off when gps tries to get a fix!
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you can disable it in location settings then it wont look for wireless data
Dopedangel said:
you can disable it in location settings then it wont look for wireless data
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Click to collapse
nope it is disabled and try to get a gps fix.. wifi still comes on and then goes off.. not sure what it is doing.
I got mine and tested.
In the beginning I had a perfect fix on location. When I started moving, however, I experienced this "jumping around" issue with a huge loss of accuracy. The circle of accuracy was also changing constantly. I think I show something about the wifi seeing (or not being able to see - can't remember) some hotspots although my wi-fi was turned off.
Maybe indeed - the phone detects wifi networks even if the wifi as such is off and possibly compares it to an internal database (thus explaining the persistence of the problem even when the radio is off and the phone is not connected on the net).
Do you know any good free program that would allow me to get some test data - e.g. number of satellites / signal quality etc (unless there is already one somewhere in the interface - I am new to Android).
Can someone else run a test? Can some one run a test in an area where no wifi exists.
That's bad news,i'm really interested in this phone (money-forgiving for a while ),but i need great gps performances...
Evans_Prophet said:
Do you know any good free program that would allow me to get some test data - e.g. number of satellites / signal quality etc (unless there is already one somewhere in the interface - I am new to Android).
Can someone else run a test? Can some one run a test in an area where no wifi exists.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Try "GPS Test" its on the market for free. From my test the GPS is actually quite nice, several 18-25 SNR connections and a few 26-30 SNR ones ( When outside I even find one or two 31-40 SNR ones which is really great).
Anyway I notice that GPS had become far more accurate when I disabled the Wifi-location option. The only problem is that locking down takes some time ( about 10-20 seconds max) in my area.
kitsune223 said:
Try "GPS Test" its on the market for free. From my test the GPS is actually quite nice, several 18-25 SNR connections and a few 26-30 SNR ones ( When outside I even find one or two 31-40 SNR ones which is really great).
Anyway I notice that GPS had become far more accurate when I disabled the Wifi-location option. The only problem is that locking down takes some time ( about 10-20 seconds max) in my area.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
ok - i will test with that and revert..
By the way, in my wm6 Touch HD there was a utility called quickgps which would download data from server instead of having them downloaded from a satellite with a low speed connection. This increased speed of cold lock. Furthermore there was also another option to enable assisted gps (not sure whether this was different from the quick gps application and what this did exactly). I wonder whether these application / features are automatically enabled in our case.
Evans_Prophet said:
I got mine and tested.
In the beginning I had a perfect fix on location. When I started moving, however, I experienced this "jumping around" issue with a huge loss of accuracy. The circle of accuracy was also changing constantly. I think I show something about the wifi seeing (or not being able to see - can't remember) some hotspots although my wi-fi was turned off.
Maybe indeed - the phone detects wifi networks even if the wifi as such is off and possibly compares it to an internal database (thus explaining the persistence of the problem even when the radio is off and the phone is not connected on the net).
Do you know any good free program that would allow me to get some test data - e.g. number of satellites / signal quality etc (unless there is already one somewhere in the interface - I am new to Android).
Can someone else run a test? Can some one run a test in an area where no wifi exists.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
It can also be a problem of google navigation beta?? Did anyone try another gps navigator?
i felt the same thing about GPS, as it is not that good , as there's no wi-fi Google can detect hear. the performance was not that good at all!.
but tonight i used the GPS without the Wifi (i turned it off) and for a surprise the performance was amazing, I was with my friend in his car watching the road as he drive and watching the google map in my phone and was very good indeed.
that's strange!.
I'm sure we're all waiting for the 'proper' navigation software to arrive for WP7 (anyone any ideas when Orange Maps will go live?)
But in the meantime, I could do with a very simple GPS tracking app that will allow me to go walking out in the forest, and find my way back to the car.
I've downloaded most of the free or trial apps from Zune, but they all seem to require access to a data connection to display a map. I understand that the alternative is a local cached map (like TomTom) which is a problem, but I need something where the map is optional.
There is very patchy data coverage out in the forest around here (to be honest, the coverage is not great in the villages), but GPS is generally pretty good. I don't see why the app couldn't show your location, and either a plot of your route, or simply a direction and distance back to a saved location (i.e. where your car is). regardless of a map.
I've looked at many 'GPS' apps and 'Where's my car' apps, but all seem to require a data connection (apart from one GPS app that doesn't, but it requires you to enter your target location in degrees mins and secs, and doesn't give you an option to 'save' a current location).
There's one called 'Smartrunner' that looks possible, but all the reviews say it's crap and doesn't actually run on Wp7
Also, I'm guessing that it's the developer's choice to include a trial version of paid software (as not all of them do) - I'm very reluctant to pay for anything at this stage (as so many of the apps don't seem to work that well on all phones). - What does eveeryone else think?
So its all over the news that Iphones, and Ipads are tracking the coordinates of their users, along with timestamps 24/7 UNENCRYPTED. I was researching this topic and found an article clearly suggesting that the same thing is going on with the Rhodium/Tilt 2, this was hinted at by this site showing HTC Sense's "Privacy" policy, which clearly states that HTC has the right to collect, store, transmit, and share a users location data. So can anyone do some filesystem digging and figure out to what extent were being subjected to this on our phones? On the Iphone you cant turn off the automatic tracking at all, unless you jailbreak the phone. Im wondering if the same is the case for our phones?, also wondering where this location history file could be stored, how much is stored, how much its accessed/transmitted, and most importantly whether its encrypted or not? And anything else that may be interesting. We all have a right to privacy, having an unencypted history of everywhere you've been should be disturbing to anyone, because well, first of all its unencrypted. Second of all, this feels like the gov't's solution to not having to put a chip in each of our necks like a dog, one by one. You want your girlfriend snooping and seeing on a map that you were at the nudie bar? This can cause all kinds of problems in peoples lives. Access to a map like with the Iphones location history is a stalkers dream. Unencryptedly disturbing. So lets figure out how data is used, stored, and gathered on our phones, and what to do about it, based on what the Iphone does I'm not confident right now that turning off the location setting will stop this. Below is HTC Sense's "Privacy" Policy.
From HTC’s Sense Privacy Statement:
"To provide location-based services, HTC and its partners may collect, use, transmit, process, store and share precise location data about your device. Location information may be transmitted even when you are not using a third party location-sharing service. This information may include but is not limited to your device ID and name, device type and real-time geographic location of your device. This location data is collected anonymously in a form that does not personally identify you and is used by HTC and its partners to provide and improve location-based products and services. You may also be able to submit to HTC location data such as “Points of Interest,” voice notes to share with friends, and other information. HTC may also supplement the information it collects with information obtained from other companies. HTC may share geographic location data with application providers when you opt in to use their location-based services. By enabling or using the location-based services or features (such as displaying your phone location, posting Footprints, etc.) and applications that depend on location-based information, you agree and consent to HTC collecting, using, transmitting, processing, storing and sharing information related to your account and the devices registered to your account for purposes of providing such location-based services or features to you. You may withdraw this consent by turning off the “HTC Locate” function in the location settings (as applicable) on your device. Some location-based services that HTC offers, such as the “HTC Locate” feature and remote lock or remote erase functions, require your Personal Information for the feature to work. If you use third party services that use or provide location data as part of the Service, you are subject to and should review the third party’s terms and privacy policy regarding the third party’s use of location data. Location data provided by the Service is not intended to be relied upon. HTC and its partners do not guarantee the availability, accuracy, completeness, reliability, or timeliness of location data or any other data displayed by the Service. The “HTC Locate” feature is intended for your personal use only to locate, send a message to, or remote lock or remote erase your own device. The location-based services are not intended or suitable for use as an emergency locator system."
Turn GPS off, problem solved?
Would using a non HTC/Sense rom solve the problem, if it exists?
I use android, no problems on my end
rhod 110
ryannathans said:
I use android, no problems on my end
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Click to collapse
Hahaha!
Good one.
(Android tracks your location too)
toadlife said:
Hahaha!
Good one.
(Android tracks your location too)
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I know, not as serious as everyone has made the iphone issue though
With the Iphone, turning off the GPS doesnt disable this, the phone will resort to cell tower triangulation instead, which is something even an old school Nokia can achieve, nevermind our phones. The only way to turn the tracking off w/ the Iphone is to jailbreak it, or take the battery out. Ill bet anything that our phones are the same way. Its so cute having the weather right on your phone displaying the exact town you're in and temperature, but i'm sure after reading that "privacy" policy that thats all recorded somewhere on the phone, coordinates etc. And even if you can somehow be sure the location feature is turned off and not recording, theres got to be a history file still left behind, which needs to get tossed.
$39.99, no trial. Let's just say at least it's a step forward.
http://www.wpcentral.com/garmin-streetpilot-hits-marketplace
...lets hope the European version will follow soon...
Too bad you can't download the full maps, though. You need to download your maps on a "per route" basis.
I am somewhat greatfull that I have t-mobile germany, so I get the Navigon App for "free". Here, I don't need a data volume to navigate.
It's available for the US and Canada.
Is it just a case of a locked API that no one is currently offering a GPS navigation app that has maps pre-loaded?
All these ones that are coming out that need a data connection are pretty useless since i only really use sat-nav out in the sticks where i don't get reception.
I'm not keen on having to pre-download a map each time i make a journey either.
I really miss IGo8 off my old Blackstone
Freypal said:
Is it just a case of a locked API that no one is currently offering a GPS navigation app that has maps pre-loaded?
All these ones that are coming out that need a data connection are pretty useless since i only really use sat-nav out in the sticks where i don't get reception.
I'm not keen on having to pre-download a map each time i make a journey either.
I really miss IGo8 off my old Blackstone
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I do not think it is API problem. They seem to keep storing the maps as you keep using new routes. I think they are using on-demand maps as a DRM method. It is difficult to pirate when the app keeps communicating (and authenticating) with Garmin servers.
Localhorst86 said:
Too bad you can't download the full maps, though. You need to download your maps on a "per route" basis.
I am somewhat greatfull that I have t-mobile germany, so I get the Navigon App for "free". Here, I don't need a data volume to navigate.
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Click to collapse
Agreed on the Navigon software; the 3.0 version is outstanding. And looks far more "metro" in style than this $40 software.
I believe the reason we are not seeing any offline gps software (ie with offline maps and offline routing) is because these companies have algorithms and "engines" for planning routes, and they cannot (or don't want to) convert these DLLs to silverlight. MS doesn't allow you to use your own proprietary code and DLLs in the marketplace. So the only proper nav apps with offline routing and maps, such as Navigon, can only exist if they are manufacturer or carrier-supplied (in the same way that HTC can offer compass and flashlight apps).
Pity this is US/Canada only... really after a decent nav app (Turn-By-Turn's (GPSTuner) POI's dont work in Australia!)
It is a shame for those in other regions, but for those of us in North America, it is pretty sweet. My only gripes with the app are the fact that they didn't include a "run under lock screen" option (a must-have option for Focus users), and the voice seems, at times, to be over-compressed, and comes out just a tad fuzzy. By way of comparison the voice on the AT&T Navigator app is crystal clear. But that is about the only advantage it has over Garmin's new app.
Hello,
I think that navigon will be for Europe.
anyway, it is a very good GPS (navigon) I used this program in try v3.
it's great.
I like it. Looks promising. However I would not get it. I already have a gps for that reason.
I picked it up a couple of days and tried it out and was sorely unimpressed.
Issues:
1) It lost the satellite sync a number of times in urban, but not downtown Seattle.
2) It seems to have no sense of correcting the raw data. For example, if I'm travelling along a highway at speed, you'd think that I'd be going in the same heading as the road. It apparently just reads the raw compass data, resulting in the appearance of a perpetual power slide as I drive.
3) When it loses me and recalculates, it treats it like I'm starting a new trip (with the same phrase at the beginning) and may want me to start on a different, albeit nearby road.
4) Position inaccuracy kept it thinking I was moving when I wasn't. This happened a LOT, although clearly it new I wasn't moving much, and reset me.
5) It doesn't have street names like TomTom.
6) It doesn't let me pull from Contacts. Maybe when Mango is released?
The real summary here is that if I hadn't known where I was going, it would have taken me a fairly poor direction as it would lose me, think I was relatively far away, and start calling out instructions from that. I'd rather use Bing Maps (which I think the touching idea is terrible) or TomTom on my iPad. I got the Garmin because TomTom won't, for some reason, allow my traffic subscription to work on the iPad.
There are some things about the app I like:
1) Data entry for the address was nice. I preferred it over the TomTom.
2) Screen layout is nice.
3) Pictures of road changes are amazing!
I haven't experienced the first two issues you described at all, so I can neither confirm nor deny them .
Issue 3 is a minor annoyance (although I've never had it place me on the wrong street), but I hope it is addressed in an update soon.
Issue 4 I have seen a couple of times, but it did correct very quickly.
For issue 5, I have no idea what you mean. My copy always speaks the correct street name as I approach a turn. Maybe it varies by area, but I am in a much more rural area than Seattle, so I would expect that I would experience that problem before you would.
Issue 6 has nothing to do with the app, it is strictly an API issue. No GPS app on the marketplace today can pull from your contacts. But that will come with Mango.
I have not tried this app yet but i have tried and am currently using Navigon Select 3.0 form this thread and i must say that for the 1 day of testing it, it is working great. BTW, i am a bit biased when it comes to Navigon, i have been using it for a long time now on my old Iphone 3G.
Garmin broken?
I recently started having a problem with the Garmin Streetpilot. Every time i run it, it says "Acquiring Satellite" but never seems to acquire the satellite. I've let it go 15 minutes while driving, and no dice.
I remember getting a Samsung software to improve my GPS reception, and assumed it had somehow broken Garmin. Today I restored my phone back to NoDo, and then got the offical Mango upgrade, this time without getting the Samsung App. Installed Garmin, and wham, exact same problem. It just can't acquire the satellite. I went ahead and grabbed the Samsung app and tried it again, but still no dice.
Does anybody have the Garmin working on their successfully? I'm wondering if they put out an update i missed that broke the app.
I've never had that problem on my Focus, although the previous version wasn't very precise in following the road. However, I briefly tried the new Mango version yesterday (which presumably includes compass support), it had no trouble at all.
I'm starting to suspect the problem is that I didn't get a Samsung firmware update, so my compass isn't working. I'm wondering if the Garmin keeps trying to ping the compass and getting stuck because it can't access it?
That's possible, but I don't think the app would report that the satellite could not be acquired if the only problem was a missing compass.
I agree it doesn't make sense, but given what i've seen in software development, it wouldn't be too surprising.
bigfire said:
I recently started having a problem with the Garmin Streetpilot. Every time i run it, it says "Acquiring Satellite" but never seems to acquire the satellite. I've let it go 15 minutes while driving, and no dice.
I remember getting a Samsung software to improve my GPS reception, and assumed it had somehow broken Garmin. Today I restored my phone back to NoDo, and then got the offical Mango upgrade, this time without getting the Samsung App. Installed Garmin, and wham, exact same problem. It just can't acquire the satellite. I went ahead and grabbed the Samsung app and tried it again, but still no dice.
Does anybody have the Garmin working on their successfully? I'm wondering if they put out an update i missed that broke the app.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I'm having exactly the same problem on Focus (Mango) using StreetPilot 7.5.