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Re: This Place Goes to Dogs Because of Microsoft
Now no more cooking up Roms and OS's and no place to go.
I'm upset to see this.
There has got to be a way to carry on?
What were these guys afraid of? Oh if you want the new OS and it's capabilities you got to go to carrier and get ripped off!
I wonder who complained the most? I bet i-Mate was at the top of the list. HTC?
I want to run the newest OS without purchasing a new unit period and if I can't I will not be purchasing any more from the likes of Cingular, T-Mobile.
You know here in the good old USA you can't even get a decent phone from T-Mobile they are in the Stone Age. Cingular is a little better you can get a stripped down Tytn as the 8525 that of course is locked to their network and they almost always strong arm you into a 2 year contract! What are these guys Dictators?
You know why cant we develop our own like Sony's UX Micro series?
These thing would put these guys out of business. After all I always build my own PC's b uy the operating system. I can build these to suit me.
Well the End is near the Commies are taking over, lets hug a tree and sing some Kumbaiya.
Ok Ranted
amen brother
Me too! Tired of buying $650 phones with crummy ROMS and no support. It's absurd!! I left the board for a week and a half and came back today to upgrade to the Dopod ROM with GPS (I have the p3600) - whoops! - it's gone - Screwed!
Everyone can pat microsoft on the back for being so lenient for so long but I've been doing Windows since the first version and have watched them illegally put Netscape, Ecco Pro, Wordperfect (almost), Firefox (soon) and hundreds of other great software companies out of business through bullying and bribing - this makes me not give a flying you know what about respecting their rights. They even bullied the feds - more power there than the Vanderbilts and the Rockerfellers (sp?) ever had!!
I have spent a fortune on their products, and I have done almost everything totally legally (which is why I have spent a fortune). But they are not satisfied with that. They have to run all the experimenters and the innovators out of business, and when theirown products suck, they have to buy the competition out of business. I will buy and use the first good open source OS that comes along for these excellent PDA phones - I am so tired of throwing dollar after dollar on systems that don't work (don't get me started on Active sync, duplicates everywhere, increasingly limited abilities to sync, Outlook and the inability to have one PIM on more than one computer at home without 3rd party software at home, and so on).
It makes a good man want to cry. At least Apple is up front about it. And, altho there is no opportunity for innovation there, at least their products work. Microsoft is in business just to blow everybody else out of the water. Tiring to say the least. Deserving of a consumer revolt at best!
Yes they are within their legal rights. Legal rights these days are like political rights in the past MIGHT MAKES RIGHT. Thank you again, Bill Gates.
We're still cooking up ROMs. In fact I posted one just today. The location has simply changed. FTTB everything's on RapidShare. We no longer host this location however, so the care we took in ensuring that pre-production ROMs not yet sent to Operators were removed is now gone.
What has m$ really done here other than just make a lot of people really mad (the petition has around 6,000 signatures currently)? Oh, I know. They've hurt their sales.
... go figure...
as if MSFT cares much about sales they would only care if their $$$ go to competitors like Apple iPhone for example... then Bill would go bananas but a few billion less in sales that's peanuts for him ))
on another point, rapidshare is not searchable (for obvious reasons)... will then the sharing and testing be done through PM only???
I have been told (smile) that emule has a search function.
Yeah but really, would you install a rom that came from e-mule?
Exactly. Did anyone 'mirrored' the ftp before it was taken down?
I can't believe, BTW, that xdad being scared by M$FT -without any reason, let me add - did not give us some time to mirror it. This is clearly pathetic, I think.
there is a mirror!!,,, search this forum carefully for the word "gurus"
dim4x4 said:
there is a mirror!!,,, search this forum carefully for the word "gurus"
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So are we not meant to tell anyone the web address?
:gulp:
Just figured I'ld post this to weigh in.
I love WM. The TP was actually my first WMPhone and I really loved customizing it, ROMs, and in general HTC as a company. Easy tethering, tons of detail, thousands of programs. I hated the TP battery, waited six months for the TP2 to finally come out and changed to Tmo just to not wait anymore. Obviously, I'm a (relatively new) fan.
However, in all my reading and browsing, and mixing and matching Roms and programs, I got annoyed with the endless glitches. It seemed customizing was a chore to fill gaps half the time. And so I waited to hear about WP7.
On a random decision, after loading DualBoot and Android on my TP2, I bought a Nexus One just to have the Snapdragon and multitouch (HD2 announced for Tmo like 3 days later lol). But I kept my ears open for WP7 and totally expected to move back in October.
I know you guys are all WinMo, but to be honest this has to be a common feeling. Look how popular Android on TP has become. We have been looking for something, but wanting it to be windows.
So, the point: my experience.
A.) the nexus one has made me sorely miss a keyboard. However other than that I actually like it. The battery is at least equal to TP2. Things that are chores on WMo are easy on Android, like Fbook integration of contacts and maintaining stability. Having several open programs is such a non-issue battery wise and slowdown wise that there isnt even a freaking task manager or close program button. You have to download a program, and its not that common. You just leave everything open. Zero slowdown. Same battery, more or less. I don't think its superior to WM, more like a close cousin that doesnt share the bad family traits. In the present climate, Android is very similar to WM.
B.) and now the hard part. WP7 looks nice. Looks great actually. Devices will surely be as cool as always. But set aside your loyalty and look: what do you tell your friends you like about WM, why you stay with it? Customization. Open program downloading and creation. EFFORTLESS MULTITASKING. Endless differentiation between companies, UI's, and phones. Where the $%^& is what we love in WP7? Complicated, apparently limited, multitasking that sounds too much like Iphone. Closed development. Limited, almost meaningless so far, customization. Closed App environment. The best anyone can come up with so far about differentiation is adding freaking keyboards and hardware colors. Does anyone now wonder why HTC started shifting more support, and Sense, to Android?
As much as I hate to say it, I will probably stick with Android unless WP7 pulls something great out. It looks great, but so does the Iphone and that is not something I consider wanting. My nexus one has everything I love about htc, and adds in perfect stability and customization. Hardly anyone bothers posting apps online, but only because the Market lets basically anything in! Tethering apps, rooting apps, whatever. Let's face it: Microsoft appears to be spurning its loyal fanbase. And Google is waiting with open arms.
WP7 does not appeal to me at this time with its current UI. They should have hired SPB mobile shell to create their UI.
I like most droid devices (not the motodroid) and the OS is extremely responsive and easy to understand. Haven't done any detailed work w/ the andoird OS, but WinMo customization is what keeps me here.
I agree Trev.
I believe the software industry, much like the music and film (big and small screens) industries, is changing. Open source is the way forwards as people are more able to communicate with each other the need for centralised programming is going to more and more take a back seat.
This means margins will be cut and I'll be supprised if MS, being such a large organisation will be able to keep up. Maybe this the reason for the speculation on WM7 being locked down, so they can have a greater control over revenues. I've read an article which mentioned that MS consider Linux to be a virus that gets into profitable areas of business and destroys the margins. That attitude won't get them anywhere.
I don't think WM7 will have anything new. MS are in the business of preserving what they have and not winning new customers. WM7 will be safe, not amazing.
Android is new so nothing is set in stone. It will be more flexible, open to new ideas and will grow it's market share. They let pretty much anything into their app store which will allow anyone to have a go, not just a centralised "elite". This will help to keep it new too because it's not just the same people going through the motions because it pays the bills. The is what keeps this forum alive.
The MS business model is dying and being replaced with something that's better for the consumer. Much like the short haul airline industry changed
trevorwhopkins said:
Just figured I'ld post this to weigh in.
Let's face it: Microsoft appears to be spurning its loyal fanbase. And Google is waiting with open arms.
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Absolutely right! Wouldn't surprise me if google is working on an OS for the pc. If they are I would be scared if I were MS.
On another note, i'm not sure what people mean when they compare winmo to android customization. You can customize android just as much as you can custimize winmo. Do these people ever visit the android forums and see all the customization people are doing with their android phones? Any hard core winmo fan will not miss customization moving from winmo to android. I just think some people are having a hard time letting go.
I have also felt like this for a while. Mainly due to being given an MSM7200 for 3 years! Sure there is the HD2 with the snapdragon but that doesn't have AT&T 3G bands and a couple other WM phones with it too, but none that I like.
I would have switched to Android (and still will) if a phone comes out that meets these requirements:
1) WVGA Screen
2) Snapdragon
3) NICE keyboard, comparable to TP2. This is the best keyboard I have ever used.
4) AT&T 3G bands.
The only phone that comes close is the Motorola Milestone on Telus (unlockable). It doesn't have a snapdragon but a decent processor. Its keyboard also sucks.
Google do have an OS. It's called Chrome, like the browser, and it based on Ubuntu.
And Microsoft seems to be basing their business on people not letting go. It's sad really, I wish they'd try harder
I would not care if my Tilt 2 came with Android or WinMO to be honest. They are overall about the same to me.
I got the Tilt 2 because I wanted a qwerty keyboard, with a large very high quality touch screen as well. And I did not want an internal HD like iPhones, I want interchangeable light weight cheap storage cards! That gives me unlimited storage. All that, on AT&Ts service plan.
It did not hurt that it cost me $50 to upgrade from my Fuze to the Tilt 2!
If Microsoft would open up WinMO so the different phone manufactures could customize the OS for each phone, companies like HTC could do amazing things with WinMO.
I honestly wish HTC would update their software for their phones more often.
Keep TILT2 or wait a few more months???
Deleted due to duplication Here:
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?p=5679065#post5679065
enahs_ said:
I would not care if my Tilt 2 came with Android or WinMO to be honest. They are overall about the same to me.
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I disagree. But then again, they keyword here is "me". To you they're overall the same. Which is somewhat of a true statement. They both lend themselves to customization and both have plenty of funtionality. But where Android sets itself apart is speed and stability, which I would take anyday. What good is a phone that has all this functionality, when half the time the functionality doesn't function properly or you have to tweak the hell out of the OS to get it to work properly.
So, So true
I remember feeling a weird sort of guilt for liking Android so much when I got my N1. I had spent so much time on my TP2 to get it right and the N1 came "right", right out of the box. Granted full free tethering(with free options) was not there, but everything else is. I think the guilt was all the time, I don't want to say it.... wasted.
I remember starting a thread that really ticked a lot of people off. Just mentioning how Android was what real functionality and customization should be like and BAM!, flame city.
When it was just Windows Mobile or another smartphone option(you can name them), there was no choice. Now with Android, I feel I have made the most equitable of the choices. And the little pleasures of the choice I have made are the reason that it would take a game changer of a WindowsPhone7 to make me think of going back. The lack of weekly(with the best of Roms) or daily resets(just to keep the phone fresh), glitches, memory leaks(a given), freezes, weird pauses and the like, which rank as my largest pet peeves, are my joys with Android. I have reset the phone twice in 3 weeks only to change a memory card and another time just because. Not one freeze, slowdown, memory leak, not in what's going on a month, which I can't say of the TP2 in the same time period. Which was the motivation to flash it. After agreeing on the almost overwhelmingly unanimous feeling that it was the best shipped Rom in a long time!
Yeah, no more of that for me , thanks....
I agree. If Windows "Phone" 7 is going to be as rigid as the other mobile operating systems are now; where's the fun in that? Personally, what NRGZ28 has done with his EnergyROMs especially his most latest is why I bought this device in the first place; he did remarkable work with the Wing. That's me! The work these folks do is nothing short of outstanding; all of them. Now, I don't know enough about the Android devices other than there is a whole lot of folks liking them but everybody I've talked to who looks at what I've done to my TP2; their eyeballs and tongue roll out of their heads; they can't believe it can be done and with the latest ROM I have on my device at first glance they think they're looking at the HD2 (Leo). If Windows "Phone" 7 (I'll never get use to calling it that) is going to follow the path of everybody else then you're probably going to see the bulk of us jump ship; but what cannot be dismissed is are we the majority or are we the minority? My Wing was living proof Windows Mobile 6.5 could run on it as were many of the Windows Mobile devices out there at the time. But smart phones like desktops are becoming as powerful as netbooks today; maybe notebooks. I've had my desktop PC for years but clearly the software today is forcing me to consider a new PC with 4, 6 and 8 GBs of RAM; my current PC maxes out at 512mbs. I've read good reviews about Windows Phone 7 and the moment the HD2 comes out I want it, but I also know the market is going to be flooded with TP2s and they will come down in price as they've already have now from $349.99 to $269.99. What is unknown is how much will the HD2 costs given it's horsepower and upgrades to the US market. We all have to remember there are other devices that will be released after the HD2, for example the Tera, looks like the TP2 with a 600mhz CPU. There is the HD Mini, smaller than it's bigger brother and I'm sure there will be a TP2 style device with the 1GHz Snapdragon maybe clocked higher. I kill to have a HD2, but I also know it is wise to wait. I have read nothing that says it won't be upgraded to Windows Phone 7, though with the exception of XDA, PPC Geeks and other websites; it might be awhile. I've had Windows Mobile 6.5 on my TP2 day one and then on my Wing; it didn't officially release until when; January 20, 2010.
"I would not care if my Tilt 2 came with Android or WinMO to be honest. They are overall about the same to me."
That is the feeling I generally got. I dualbooted android on my TP2 and basically still loved the phone for exact same reasons.
"I remember feeling a weird sort of guilt for liking Android so much when I got my N1. I had spent so much time on my TP2 to get it right and the N1 came "right", right out of the box. Granted full free tethering(with free options) was not there, but everything else is. I think the guilt was all the time, I don't want to say it.... wasted"
my sentiments exactly. except that full free tethering is available. same way as on wm. with some customization. i just rooted my n1 yesterday and got the tethering. works perfect.
As for new comments since original post... I am ever more convinced I am right. When I finally rooted my phone (much scarier than hardspl'ing my tp2 i must say, though not too difficult. similar to Pre unlocking.) it locked in that I'll stay with Android, unless they release a WP7 phone without the tiles and with full customization. Check out the android forums. I just flashed Sense onto my n1. I almost laughed.
It has the exact same look and feel as Sense on Winmo! Same keyboard. Same dialer, almost, so now I dont miss smartdialing. It even has a version of the sliding homescreen with texts and alarms, etc. It feels exactly like the day I flashed 2.5 onto my TP2... only it didnt hamstring my phone at all. It just worked. Customization is more complicated but ultimately more rewarding and way more usable on Android. It's sad to see so many posts agreeing finally. I figured I would get flamed too. This is a Rhodium forum after all! I will probly try to leave this thread alone to not bother the Rhodium guys. I loved my phone and would never trash it now that I got the n1. But I don't regret it at all. Still miss that fantastic keyboard though.
Oh and to the Milestone loving guy... go try that milestone. The keyboard is a joke to me. Its just like the droid. hard flat keys. At least it's finally centered on the phone though. And its sad someone mentioned the milestone as decent powered, it being a low end Droid. But then again, Android still has the G1, which is so much a joke its why I hesitated to even try Android before 2.1.
One final comment:
Are we the majority or minority? Obvious answer: minority. Or else they wouldnt be catering to the masses with 7. However: masses follow trends. Trends come and go. Our minority I would define as a LOYAL FAN BASE. Up until now. What happens when your LOYAL BASE is lost? Obvious answer: your company is a victim of the masses, lol.
Look at the Palm Pre. I had one for about a month before Rhodium. Fantastic OS, always stable, so easy to use. I reccomend that phone to every teenager wondering what phone to buy, or person who doesn't want to bother with the phone. But Palm built its empire on the Corporate and Power User. And then ditched them with Web OS and no poweruser form factor phones like HTC has. They arent necessarily dying, but with alllll that buzz, why do I constantly read reports of their company struggling with insolvency? Because they ditched their fanbase I would say. Sadly, I bet MS banks on WP7. They have the power of laaaarge budgets. But what happens when Iphone 4.0 or whatever the next buzz stealer is comes out? Hope they picked the right group.
trevorwhopkins said:
One final comment:
Are we the majority or minority? Obvious answer: minority. Or else they wouldnt be catering to the masses with 7. However: masses follow trends. Trends come and go. Our minority I would define as a LOYAL FAN BASE. Up until now. What happens when your LOYAL BASE is lost? Obvious answer: your company is a victim of the masses, lol.
Look at the Palm Pre. I had one for about a month before Rhodium. Fantastic OS, always stable, so easy to use. I reccomend that phone to every teenager wondering what phone to buy, or person who doesn't want to bother with the phone. But Palm built its empire on the Corporate and Power User. And then ditched them with Web OS and no poweruser form factor phones like HTC has. They arent necessarily dying, but with alllll that buzz, why do I constantly read reports of their company struggling with insolvency? Because they ditched their fanbase I would say. Sadly, I bet MS banks on WP7. They have the power of laaaarge budgets. But what happens when Iphone 4.0 or whatever the next buzz stealer is comes out? Hope they picked the right group.
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I agree with this. Companies alienate their loyal fanbases all the time in pursuit of of larger sales. There's nothing wrong with niche products, even when influential tech blogs try to declare your mobile OS "dead" even though you still have roughly 20% market share in the space.
I'm with the OP on the original point as well. I've defended WinMo to the death in the face of hordes of iPhone users and what thanks do I get? A dead Moto Q9h (replaced under warranty), a quirky Palm Treo Pro, and a Tilt 2 with a dead touchscreen (also being replaced under warranty). I applaud MSFT for trying to standardize the hardware experience of WP7, but I can't stand the walled-garden, locked-down UI, app store approach. Android is the most logical choice for my next phone - that Dell Mini 5 is looking pretty good.
First of all,
I'd like to say this is my 4th Windows Mobile device. I've owned 2 HP PocketPCs, a HTC Touch Pro and now a HTC Touch Pro2. I like the looks of the Touch Pro2 a lot. However, I have never liked Windows Mobile at all.
How is this OS still around? All programs available for it are a nightmare to find compared to competition such as an iPhone, which has only been around for a couple years. Windows Mobile has been around for a while, why do I still have to repeatedly open and close my keypad for it to rotate the screen? Why when I want a game to play or program to help make my life a little bit easier, it takes 30 minutes to find and then turns out its some ridiculous price. Every time I see a person with an iPhone find, download and install an app within a minute from the device, I wonder why I would even pay for a Windows Mobile device.
I've never been a big Apple fan and I love my Sprint service, so what i'm trying to ask is what options do I have with my Touch Pro2? I've tried a couple ROM's and non of them have made my phone better, they just fix one problem and present another.
I really appreciate the work every developer does on here, I know they are trying their best to make the devices run as best as possible, but I'm very close to cancelling my Sprint contract and switching to an iPhone.
I have to disagree with your view. I don't find iPhones to be nearly as customizable as WinMo, I have tried Droid, and maybe in a year or 2 it will be a bangin' OS, but for stability, I will stick with my faithful workhorse...
Yes it isn't as pretty or flashy, yes it is a touch slower, but my WinMo devices have been like Timex...takes a lickin' and keeps on tickin'. I'll take that ANY DAY over flash. My last was the Wizard...I had it almost 4 years. If I buy a new battery for it, it will still work...but it doesn't have GPS which I really wanted. Now I have the TP2. I am NOT gentle with my phones. I use them for everything...my device keeps me on schedule, makes my calls, keeps my kids happy while waiting somewhere...I never power it off, and only charge it once every 2-3 days...
I have friends with iPhones and with Droid devices, and they have had to replace them under warranty, they carry chargers with them because the battery life sucks...they look good, I'll give them that...for me that isn't enough.
Each person has their own taste, maybe yours isn't a taste for WinMo, but I cannot agree that it SUCKS. I agree that there are things that I'd like to see updated or sped up a bit, but for the abuse it can take, WinMo is good.
Couldn't agree more with akashastrega, I had a Iphone 3GS for a month or so.
I got tired of it, nothing to do.
Same crap got pretty boring, and yes, the battery life on those suck.
These WM phones are extraordinary and much more customizable.
I just ditched a BlackBerry Pearl 8120 for my Touch Pro 2 yesterday. In the 10 hours I have had the phone, I have customized and tweaked it to my liking. I installed several programs I know I will love, and NO MORE LAGGING. I'm just missing 2 games and the Seidio Slim Extended Battery, and then it will be the phone I will carry everywhere for the next 2 years.
WM is great!
Disagree too,
Yes there are some issues, but if you spend some time tweaking and configuring you can get great results (using a good ROM)
----------------
Guys vote on my sig!
Internet troll is trolling..
I'm new here, but I didn't join just to post this. I am gonna be getting a Tilt2 in the next couple days, and wanted to read up on things. I have had a few WinMo phones, and I currently have an Iphone... I have jailbroken my iphone, and the things I could do with it improved drastically, but I will tell you, stock for stock, I prefer the WinMo OS over the Iphone OS. I like it so much better, that now that it's upgrade time, I'm going back to WinMo with the tilt2.
Scott
jirobinson13300 said:
First of all, Windows Mobile has been around for a while, why do I still have to repeatedly open and close my keypad for it to rotate the screen?
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Try gyrator.
jirobinson13300 said:
I've never been a big Apple fan and I love my Sprint service, so what i'm trying to ask is what options do I have with my Touch Pro2?
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Try here and here.
I hate that everyone always threaten windows mobile users with picking up an Iphone. No one can make your mind up for you. Every phone/os has its problems and none will be perfect. I respect apple for waking up the industry and making everyone step there game up. But as far as im concerned anyone not computer illiterate, not picking winmo or even android before iphone reminds me of people who pay 100 for an hdmi cable.
My main beef with the T-Mo TP2 was the browser. There's IE, but IE is IE and we all know to avoid it like the plague, however, for certain things, it worked much better than the (surprisingly) crappy Opera Mobile 9 included in the latest Tmo US build.
It all changed, though, when I got Opera Mini 5 beta. That browser should be the standard against which all mobile browsers should be measured.
I also figured out how stupidly simple it's to tether my phone's 3G connection to my laptop with Vista (rather than android requiring a rooted system and kernel support) with an official build, no less. There are some things that lack polish, but HTC made a formidable job of keeping those encounters with the uglier parts of winmo at a minimum.
jirobinson13300 said:
First of all,
I'd like to say this is my 4th Windows Mobile device. I've owned 2 HP PocketPCs, a HTC Touch Pro and now a HTC Touch Pro2. I like the looks of the Touch Pro2 a lot. However, I have never liked Windows Mobile at all.
How is this OS still around? All programs available for it are a nightmare to find compared to competition such as an iPhone, which has only been around for a couple years. Windows Mobile has been around for a while, why do I still have to repeatedly open and close my keypad for it to rotate the screen? Why when I want a game to play or program to help make my life a little bit easier, it takes 30 minutes to find and then turns out its some ridiculous price. Every time I see a person with an iPhone find, download and install an app within a minute from the device, I wonder why I would even pay for a Windows Mobile device.
I've never been a big Apple fan and I love my Sprint service, so what i'm trying to ask is what options do I have with my Touch Pro2? I've tried a couple ROM's and non of them have made my phone better, they just fix one problem and present another.
I really appreciate the work every developer does on here, I know they are trying their best to make the devices run as best as possible, but I'm very close to cancelling my Sprint contract and switching to an iPhone.
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If you are just looking to use games and entertainment apps i strongly suggest you an iphone... WinMo devices are more for productivity and less for entertainment iphones on the contrary were made for the masses so that my be your kind of phone.
Yeah, WM really sucks, such as:
1) That sucky ability to tether and use as a WiFi hotspot.
2) Sucks that the hardware keyboard is hands down superior to the stupid iPhone on screen keyboard.
3) Sucks that MS Office is native, and greatly enhances my productivity on the road.
4) Sucks that I can customize and customize, where the iPhone is stuck how Steve Jobs wants it to look and work.
5) Sucks that the TP2 speaker phone is incredible. So good that I used it during a 10-person business meeting at a remote site where there were no landlines (iPhone could have never accomplished this).
Man, WM sucks! I better get an iPhone!
Anyway, most the iPhone "apps" that people are always raving about are all GAMES. I like to casually distract myself from time to time at the airport and such. But there are enough WM games for that. When it comes down to real apps, iPhone owners actually don't have many, they just download games. And there are WM versions of practically all of those.
If you're a kid that needs a toy, the iPhone is perfect. If you're an adult with real business needs, the iPhone doesn't cut it.
Why does it suck so bad? That's easy. Same reason IE 6 sucked horrendously, but was still used by 90%+ of all people browsing the web. Because Microsoft will take over a market, then let their products stagnate. They won't do anything groundbreaking or cutting edge at all once they've wiped out the competition.
Windows CE is 14 years old, and it is still the core of a lot of Windows Mobile. When MS finally beat Palm to rule the PDA market they let their OS stagnate. Along came cell phone connectivity, and MS made only minor changes to the OS to adapt it for smartphone use. MS didn't make any real efforts regarding a finger-based GUI until the iPhone came along and showed how bad Windows Mobile was in that area. Now MS is playing catch up - just like when Firefox came along and suddenly started eating up IE 6's market share, and woke MS up. They will catch up - it's much easier to implement something when someone else has already shown how it can be done. So I expect Windows 7 will be pretty slick.
hmmm... I have long pondered this question myself.
But, as the eternal wisdom of Three Dead Trolls in a Baggie has shown us, "Every OS sucks."
So, it really comes down to a few deciding factors:
If you are a pompous **** that drives a BMW 3 series because you really can't afford a real Beamer, but you still want to catch diseases from women you don't know, you'd better get the iPhone.
If you question your own sexuality and you beg your mother to let you go to the $8 a cup coffee house to watch your favorite beatnick while wearing a $200 dollar Tshirt that looks like something from goodwill and you're 47, spend that extra $57 a month and get a droid.
If you're a pencilneck geek that probably hasn't had a sexual experience with someone else in a few years, but you have hacked into your toaster to burn computer generated pictures on your Albert Einstein shaped frozen french toast that you pulled out of your freezer that you grafted a 52" LCD screen onto that has your favorite fish from Dream Aquarium on it as your "pets", Winmo is probably for you.
(I hope everyone understands this post was made in jest.)
I wish we could "favorite" posts in the forum.....
...this would be a fave! LMAO
Ivanstein said:
hmmm... I have long pondered this question myself.
But, as the eternal wisdom of Three Dead Trolls in a Baggie has shown us, "Every OS sucks."
So, it really comes down to a few deciding factors:
If you are a pompous **** that drives a BMW 3 series because you really can't afford a real Beamer, but you still want to catch diseases from women you don't know, you'd better get the iPhone.
If you question your own sexuality and you beg your mother to let you go to the $8 a cup coffee house to watch your favorite beatnick while wearing a $200 dollar Tshirt that looks like something from goodwill and you're 47, spend that extra $57 a month and get a droid.
If you're a pencilneck geek that probably hasn't had a sexual experience with someone else in a few years, but you have hacked into your toaster to burn computer generated pictures on your Albert Einstein shaped frozen french toast that you pulled out of your freezer that you grafted a 52" LCD screen onto that has your favorite fish from Dream Aquarium on it as your "pets", Winmo is probably for you.
(I hope everyone understands this post was made in jest.)
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I think the explanation for how crappy and slow WM cannot be rooted in Microsoft dominance. That explanation makes sense when talking about Windows, but MS never had a large share of the smartphone market. It may have been one of the earliest smartphone OS'es, but RIM's Blackberry has dominated the business-end of the smartphone spectrum in the US, Canada and the UK for a few years now.
I don't know what big business in East Asia, Continental Europe and the Middle East use, but I'm guessing it's not WinMo.
aniym said:
I think the explanation for how crappy and slow WM cannot be rooted in Microsoft dominance. That explanation makes sense when talking about Windows, but MS never had a large share of the smartphone market. It may have been one of the earliest smartphone OS'es, but RIM's Blackberry has dominated the business-end of the smartphone spectrum in the US, Canada and the UK for a few years now.
I don't know what big business in East Asia, Continental Europe and the Middle East use, but I'm guessing it's not WinMo.
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Personally I think it is the way they designed the WM OS. The registry entries are similar to what Windows has always used, and I suspect that the multi tasking and other OS capabilities are modeled after Windows products. The OS multiasks OK, but lags in the operator interface and updating the screen.
While I feel that most of the main points have been hit, here's my view. A few people have already said that WinMo is NOT meant as a gaming/entertainment OS, and they are very right. I use my Touch Pro2 for mail, conference calling, calender etc, and gaming and entertainment when I'm bored or something. I like to think of it like a netbook: it excels at internet (Opera 10 beta is a ninja) and other things, and games as a secondary use only. If WinMo doesn't fit your needs in a phone, then maybe look somewhere else. I also love flashing new roms, trying out android and ubuntu, and personalizing the UI of my phone....
Sent from my HTC Touch Pro2 =)
Ivanstein said:
hmmm... I have long pondered this question myself.
But, as the eternal wisdom of Three Dead Trolls in a Baggie has shown us, "Every OS sucks."
So, it really comes down to a few deciding factors:
If you are a pompous **** that drives a BMW 3 series because you really can't afford a real Beamer, but you still want to catch diseases from women you don't know, you'd better get the iPhone.
If you question your own sexuality and you beg your mother to let you go to the $8 a cup coffee house to watch your favorite beatnick while wearing a $200 dollar Tshirt that looks like something from goodwill and you're 47, spend that extra $57 a month and get a droid.
If you're a pencilneck geek that probably hasn't had a sexual experience with someone else in a few years, but you have hacked into your toaster to burn computer generated pictures on your Albert Einstein shaped frozen french toast that you pulled out of your freezer that you grafted a 52" LCD screen onto that has your favorite fish from Dream Aquarium on it as your "pets", Winmo is probably for you.
(I hope everyone understands this post was made in jest.)
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For the record...I have had at least ONE sexual experience in the last few years and my twins are proof of THAT!! And my frozen French Toast is shaped like Tesla...and its not dream aquarium, it's Fish World!!
I use my WinMo to keep my life organized. It excels at BUSINESS...if I am waiting at an appointment, then maybe I'll listen to some music or play a game, but those abilities are not my NEEDS...my needs are keeping my life in order.
Like I said, I tried droid and even crackberry, and have enough friends with iPhones, for ME, sucky WinMo wins hands down...probably for the exact reason that the OP has given it a major Suck Factor!!
Said it before, I'll say it again, its like Timex!!
Another iPhony troll.
Please please please do get an iPhone, I'm sure you are a perfect match for it.
So I have taken a look at the new AT&T Tilt 2 ROM. While it is not bad it is nothing like my favorite from here. It does come with "Vlingo" pre-installed" I have to say that I find the idea of spoken text messages quite attractive.
To that end I have been working on getting vlingo on to my XDA ROM. I have gotten it to launch but it gets stuck at the "Checking connectivity" phase.
I have found through packet sniffing that the AT&T ROM identifies itself to the VLINGO servers with the following info:
DeviceID=xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx (imei I think)
DeviceModel=HTC-ST7377
DeviceMake= (yes its blank)
DeviceOSName=WM_Pro
DeviceOS=5.2.21887
Language=en-us
Carrier=AT&T
CarrierCountry=310
My Cooked ROM is sending:
DeviceID=xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx (imei I think)
DeviceModel=HTC Touch Pro2 T 7373
DeviceMake= (yes its blank)
DeviceOSName=WM_Std
DeviceOS=5.2.21911
Language=en-us
Carrier=3G AT&T
CarrierCountry=310
On the energy ROM I am getting back:
Make=unknown
Model=unsupported
I found the reg entry in the phone for the model and changed it to match but its still puking with the above. I checked the sent info and its identical to the AT&T ROM info
Anyone that has been doing this longer than I have any ideas?
I realize the cooked ROM is going to have the wrong OS ver etc...
Vlingo doesn't offer a WinMo version, so what's the point of cooking it in a ROM?
Miami_Son said:
Vlingo doesn't offer a WinMo version, so what's the point of cooking it in a ROM?
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Yes they do. There is a leaked version of the Tilt 2 ROM updated to sense 2.5. It comes PRE-LOADED.
Further, you can DL it for the Samsung "Jack" and use it. I got it right off their site.
Interesting. There's no mention of a WinMo version on their site, just iPhone, Android, BB and a Samsung version. If it is leaked how did it end up in an official AT$T ROM? Or are you talking about a different new Tilt 2 ROM? I'm very confused.
Wow, Welcome to XDA!
Vlingo & AT&T have been partnered for voice apps for a few years now. The intention was in part to bring Vlingo support to AT&T's WM devices. Yes weird since we have all been waiting for some movement on tell me which started great, has support & the infrastructure to be a really good application. However we should have Tell-Me for WM by now, especially since MS bought them out & their website promises an app for WM users Fall 2009.
The voice recognition/server is pretty fair & responsive. MSVC is way outdated using API & technology that has not changed since 2002.
It is really ashamed that these (HTC/MS) fall behind the curve in making devices truly worthy of being called smart devices. I still have my Blue Angel, it is still faster than my Tilt, Tilt 2 & Fuze & basically has all the same functions, just prettier wrappers, which are contributions of Samsung or LG or HTC anyway. The biggest advances made in WM technology over the last decade is from OEMS. Even simply things like TTS & SRE for WM have been around for nearly a decade. Individuals & small developers make bigger impacts on my smart phone IQ then MS & its plethora of subsidiaries.
MSVC is so outdated & voice control should be a staple base function of any "SMART" device. I bought my device unlocked for like 600.00, while every my PS3 does everything & more for 349.00 that my device does. I can walk around the house w/ a BT headset talking on chat or voip, play interactive games, watch blue-rays in 1080i, stream anything including netflix in 720p.
Sony come out with new features & updates, something for everyone, on a regular basis. But the "Tech. Leader" MS, drops 6.5 which is really a dolled up version of 6.1, which is really still just 6.0 & the funny thing is that my PPC2003SE Blue Angel & even my similar HX4700 & the slightly lesser Harrier all perform better, faster & more reliably than the latest HTC MS 6.1 & 6.5 devices.
MS, where is something new? Heck, where are the basics like voice control? why can you not do what android can do in just a few years? Embedded devices is the future. Even my desktop is an all in one, with no tower, & touchscreen flat panel with facial, finger print & voice recognition. All in one devices in simply designed packages/cases is the future & MS is seriously dropping the ball.
I could call Tell-Me years & years ago & get directions, searches, phone numbers & dialing/connection, so why is it that MS the now owner of Tell-Me releases a BB app before a WM app? Is Bill Gates buying stock in Google & Blackberry? I have for years been an avid PC/WM enthusiast & amateur developer, I always "said I hate apple", but seriously with the "true" video dialing, first in the US & new apps that truly do things without .net errors or constant need for reboot numerous time a day & especially with android & it's simply amazing apps, he better be. Even stupid apps like lunch are fun & useful.
Bottom line is why can't MS make a cost effective device with a truly decent camera that handles decent res video & truly hands free usage. All the new guys are doing it while MS scraps it's halfway interesting apps like Aurua bar-code, Tell-Me, etc... It's a huge disappointment when you own the companies providing infrastructure & have been coding SW for a few decades & are still having your rear handed to you by open source & the new guys on the block.
The only real difference between now & the late 80's/early 90's is that now I don't have to tether my Sony Clie to my StarTac or V to get total connection to web/contacts & mail. Quit worrying about MS Office Mobile so much, everyone is still gonna do most of their formula writing on a laptop or PC just a bit over the basics are all that most of us care about. Focus on 4G optimization, on low memory consumption, Higher memory devices, Faster Devices, HD media playback & recording/still photography, use the FM radio transmitter that most of the devices have disabled to transmit audio over radio-wave to our home theaters & car systems along with fast "TRUE" hands free functionality including STT & TTS so we can send & hear/read our emails without having to stop working or driving. Let us get info, web searches & send info with the push of one button & the power of our voices. Save us time & let us make more money so we will want to keep supporting your products because it is getting close to the point of no return. Open your eyes MS, even sites that have been exclusive to windows & CE are now changing their names & adding support or sections for android, iphone, and even a few of the smaller independent OS selections.
You guy's need to clean house seriously. Whomever is advising you as to what people want should be replaced or at least supplemented with newer blood. Your last chance I truly believe is that WM7 is the best thing ever & you work your butts of to make it freely available & compatible to those that bought flagship devices like TP2, HD2, Diamond 2, etc...
I love supporting American companies, even the big ones. But my support is not to be taken for granted, it is not blind & unforgiving to the point of hurting myself. All of the guys I started tweaking & developing with own an iphone now & use it more than the WM device they worked so hard perfecting. You are even losing your die-hard power users. They are giving up. Not to mention the new & intermediate user. Many big names that came out with amazing developments have left the WM forums out of frustration, always waiting for the next big thing (that never comes), they have moved onto Android or another platform & these same people used to find & fix the bugs you missed. I have seen XDA fixes in ROM updates. I myself, Sleuth fixed numerous 6.0 & 6.1 devices that had bad info flashed into blocks. Even much of that has stopped. Time to wake up MS & join us int the 21st century. Many of us are not professional geeks, even those that are still are business users, we run business, sales, service manufacturing, programing, etc... So it's no longer what that small group of geeks want, no, it's what the people want.
Microsoft, remember when Xbox first came out. You pretty much guaranteed it would succeed by committing to spend whatever it took to. I remember a statement that said something to the extent of ' We have and will throw however many billions it will take to succeed '. If Microsoft wants to capture the 3 screens they have to make the same commitment to Windows Phone.
So Microsoft and Nokia you can learn something from Chipotle Mexican Grill that will work. Chipotle's marketing strategy is simple, and very effective. Basically each store gets about a certain amount to use on marketing each month say ~$6,000 for a store in a big city. They use ~90%+ on promoting the most effective form of advertising; word of mouth.
First time at Chipotle? Free meal!
Didn’t like your meal? Free meal this time and next time!
Forget your wallet? Ask, and receive a Free meal!
Your high school or college in the area having an event? 300 free meals!
Soldiers getting home? 1,000's of Free meals!
NOT TO MENTION, everyday there is an office in your Chipotle’s area getting around 20+ Free Meals!! All that equals 1,000's of people nationwide raving about Chipotle, everyday.
You can put up a billboard for a month for around ~$6,000 or you can give ~2,000 Burritos away to folks who are going to eat them in their office, at stop lights, in schools etc... Reminding you what you should spend your money on.
What I'd do:
Give away $125Mill of your marketing budget via product and spend $25 Mill on 5 minutes of add time for 100 million people to see during the Super Bowl telling everyone when/where to get theirs!! $20mill putting building size Nokia phone adds in as many major cities as possible to remind the A.D.D. Americans that what they saw during the Super Bowl was for real. $30mill in the pockets of the people who have the privlage of giving them away for free, errr. the people who when asked about the iPhone/Android see $bling$ and say try this Nokia for free. Come Q4 2012 Verizon and Sprint will be lining up!
Bottom line, when you believe in your product and you believe in your goals, then put your money where your mouth is. Especially when you have as much as Microsoft.
P.S>On (1/13/12) I went to T-Mobiles site. The home page was complete disappointment. No mention of Nokia or its Lumia or Windows Phone anywhere on the home page. On the side menu under “shop brands" Nokia is not listed. If you click on smart phones on the left, the top phone is the “featured “phone, the Lumia 710 for $49.99. Under it is the Samsung Exhibit 2 for FREE, and below that the Radar for $99 the next 6 phones listed are FREE android phones. The tab at the top of IE is even labeled "Android Smartphone Deals"
(1/15/12) Still the same on T-Mobiles site.
P.S.S> Full Discloser I do not work at or own any stock in Chipotle. I started researching them when I noticed they were popping up next door to every Taco Bell in town, right next door, daring all to try them! The first of many BOLD advertising strategies Chipotle uses. I'm not a developer, just a very happy WP7 user since Nov 8th 2010 Samsung Focus launch day.
P.S.S.S> Uggg.. Microsoft, you need to man up and drop what ever $ it takes to lock down the Super Bowl to be the only phone seen during the game. Let Nokia handle the creative side of things, you just open the wallet and have faith in your product and goals, both are worth every $$$$!!!
Very well written and dead on point... M/$ needs to listen to this to make WP succeed...
Excellent post and pretty detailed.
Well, you may not have an interest in Chipotle, but you sure made me want to eat there
I only have one question - isn't it different between a franchise and a B2B2C operation? Microsoft does not sell Windows Phone directly to the consumer, whereas they do sell the Xbox directly to the consumer. HTC does not really directly push Android. The carriers tend to be the ones (with participation I am sure) coming up with the marketing juice.
The carriers will market more when Windows Phone does better. I think Windows Phone will do better when it matures. It is difficult sinking millions of dollars into a product that will not stick just yet. I think Microsoft's most pressing issue is to increase development, not only marketing.
wow those are some great ideas. i hope someone important from MS reads this.
Personally, I think spending the money on bonuses for salespeople who sell lots of Windows Phones will be more effective than giving phones away for free. This will lead to good 'word of mouth' from the salesperson in the store
Interestingly enough, the fate of the phones may not be based on design and features, but on the essentially corrupt practices of the various phone stores where they will appear. The underpaid salespeople are now being offered spiffs, which I'm told are $25 bonuses for every Nokia Windows Phone sold. These are paid for by the manufacturer or Microsoft; I have no idea which. (Probably both.) Other vendors have been doing this all along, making it impossible to buy a Windows Phone. The rep would steer you away from buying the device simply to make money selling the other phones.
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Source
"But I want an iphone"
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DaxU0ut5tUw&feature=youtube_gdata_player
magicsquid said:
Personally, I think spending the money on bonuses for salespeople who sell lots of Windows Phones will be more effective than giving phones away for free. This will lead to good 'word of mouth' from the salesperson in the store
Source
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And perhaps educate the salespeople there why they should encourage selling WP7 phones like pointing out the OS's good features like smooth GUI and excellent integration (and of course the great implementation of smart multitasking).
Then again, convincing these people to even try WP7 is gonna be the hard part since most of these salespeople have their heart (aka bias) set towards Android and iOS
ohgood said:
"But I want an iphone"
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DaxU0ut5tUw&feature=youtube_gdata_player
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That was pretty funny. But I liked this as well - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VSAVEl_RU8o&feature=related
Back on topic. In any case, employees will attempt to sell whatever is most financially beneficial to them. So, they need to make sure the same incentives are offered.
But, to increase their own understanding of it I think this little experiment would help motivate them to sell Windows Phone 7.
I suggest that they give 1 parent or grand parent a phone with Windows Phone 7 and one with Android. They are going to have to support both, but not in person. They must do it over the phone. They can't just fix it. They must walk them through the steps. To get the parent or grand parent to go along, they will also be compensated with free cell service, provided the phone is used.
My mother is 69 years old. When a site like MapQuest.com changes and she needs to use it, I get a call.
After that experience, I think the salesperson will be convinced that Windows Phone 7 is way better for most users that are not highly technical. The ease of use, the fact that it just works and requires virtually no technical knowledge is the selling point.
I don't think it would be as clear cut for an iPhone verses a Windows Phone though. Other than my belief that seniors will like the larger tiles over the smaller icons. Both won't have many support issues.
JVH3 said:
That was pretty funny. But I liked this as well - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VSAVEl_RU8o&feature=related
Back on topic. In any case, employees will attempt to sell whatever is most financially beneficial to them. So, they need to make sure the same incentives are offered.
But, to increase their own understanding of it I think this little experiment would help motivate them to sell Windows Phone 7.
I suggest that they give 1 parent or grand parent a phone with Windows Phone 7 and one with Android. They are going to have to support both, but not in person. They must do it over the phone. They can't just fix it. They must walk them through the steps. To get the parent or grand parent to go along, they will also be compensated with free cell service, provided the phone is used.
My mother is 69 years old. When a site like MapQuest.com changes and she needs to use it, I get a call.
After that experience, I think the salesperson will be convinced that Windows Phone 7 is way better for most users that are not highly technical. The ease of use, the fact that it just works and requires virtually no technical knowledge is the selling point.
I don't think it would be as clear cut for an iPhone verses a Windows Phone though. Other than my belief that seniors will like the larger tiles over the smaller icons. Both won't have many support issues.
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Lmfao @ the second video, "will the virus turn it into an iphone 4 ?" Man I almost woke up the dead laughing at that one. Awesomeness !
The suggestion of having to give support to a parent or grandparent is so wrong. You already know how time consuming and nerve racking that is, as do i . I've done the systematic hand holding from 1200 miles away, and no matter the desire and attention involved, it is always painful. (Desktops) linux, mac os, windows (worse here with version changes) is always the same. I can't imagine the level of pain involved with a tiny phone, big shakey fingers and poor vision/hearing.
Ouch !