Develop Bugs

WM5

I was wondering when I have upgraded my Himalaya with Magneto. Too many bugs made me worry. The 2 biggest was:
-ActiveSync wasn't working...
-Too many applications that I was using with Diamond cannot install...
Can anyone explain me WHY is this incompatibility there? I don't understand WHY Magneto is not able to install/run applications that on 2003SE are working perfectly.
Thanx.

oh oh oh ...
imagine , you've got a pc , with windows98 and a lot of software installed ....
and , you install windows xp sp2 on your pc , but you install all the old soft you have installed on your windows 98 ...
Do you really think that all your old soft run fine with win xp sp2 ???
Nooooo
it's the same with wm2005
wm2005 is a new os , and like with news , some old softwares don't run anymore

Yes I thing...
...and I know that's normal. This is a wrong example,because all the old PC soft that I have in my comp works fine in XP. Upgraded from '98. In XP you can run also new MS-DOS apps. WM2k3se/2k5 is not like 98/XP in PC.
Ex:Intellipad is not working in 2003,but only in 2003se! Therefore I thing,that's relatively new software. However this soft is not running in Magneto. I say it once again. WHY this uncompatibility? It's a wrong step for Microsoft.

hard to say for sure who is to blame
if it's the 3th party programmers who are cutting corners and making hacks in their programs and those hacks then are not compatible when ms make their os more "stable" or deside to inforce the rules more strictly
or if it's ms who change the stk and how things are don in the os because they feel like it and dont care if it means that 3th party programs will have issues
or if ms are doing the 3th party programmers a favour by making sure they can sell upgrades / new versions of their software

XM5
It's called MONEY.
If you upgrade your OS then in some (not all cases) you have to upgrade the software - and that costs you money.
Their viewpoint is:-
Why should the companies who write the software for one OS in particular have to cough up to make changes to that software when a new OS version comes out?
It is hard to make software forward compatible when you don't know what/when it is coming out.
Upgrade OS at your own peril.

...
A little bit crazy...
MS WinXP supports the applications for Win98...
Then why not the same issue by mobile devices?
I don't understand coz it is not too much apps designated especially for Magneto. All the old software(even though it is very good) is then unusable...[/quote]

TomasNM said:
I was wondering when I have upgraded my Himalaya with Magneto. Too many bugs made me worry. The 2 biggest was:
-ActiveSync wasn't working...
-Too many applications that I was using with Diamond cannot install...
Can anyone explain me WHY is this incompatibility there? I don't understand WHY Magneto is not able to install/run applications that on 2003SE are working perfectly.
Thanx.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Hi,
ActiveSync works perfectly in all possible ways: over irda, over bluetooth and over cradle (usb/com)
Did you install ActiveSync4???

...
Yes I did it. I have tried up to 3 hours,have readed all the forums,did everything that's possible and no success to connection. I don't have IrDA in my laptop,but have built-in Bluetooth. No success also. Yes I couldn't connect that time via BT also with 2003se which works perfectly. Now I can connect via BT to AS,therefore it can't be so big problem. But the non-working applications made me worry. Shame... So good OS is the Magneto,but useless...

Don't get desperate!!
First things first, remember that this version of Magneto that you used to upgrade is not final. Hence, it will have bugs and compatibility issues. This is why most developers don't suggest people to install anything that is not final unless they absolutely need to.
As for the Windows XP vs 98 part of the thread, even though it is true that some 98 applications run flawlwessly on XP, you gotta remember what happened when XP first came out. Most (if not all) software and hardware to be installed warned you that you may have problems if you proceeded with the installation. Service packs and Windows updates knocked most of those issues out, which is why most 98 applications now run on XP. I hope this clarifies things

...
Thanx. I didn't watch the PCOS Windows evolution and therefore I didn't know,that XP was the same example as Magneto. If the final version of WM 5.0 will be as the WinXP and the old-applications friendly,then it will be very good piece of software.

Linux on Pocket PC

Hi all,
I ask this question cuz I counldn't find enough information about How to install Linux on my PPC.
My ppc is: I-teq X-bond like as Gigabyte gsmart i. with 64MB ROM.
Is there any linux ROM distribution for my ppc? or general linux ROM distribution for PPCs?
Thanks in advance.
Pedram

The reason you could not find information is because there isn't much of it to be found.
Unfortunately, Linux for PPC is in its infancy. The main problem is the drivers - they all need to be reverse engineered and there is no help from the OEMs as they designed this things to only work with MS crap and seem to have no interest in releasing drivers or specifications.
Official reason: Because you can not mess with the OS the device is more stable and secure.
Real reason: If you need to by new phone to get new OS we make more $$$ and so does MS.
As far as I heard there is a half decent version for some iPaq model, and there is version for some HTC devices (check WiKi) but all it does is boot up: no drivers even for touch screen, no graphical interface, no apps.

Thnx levelnum.
I think if linux developers I mean open source world focus on handheld devices they can publish good distribution as desktop or laptop PCs. Today they are very powerful in reverse engineering, .NET Framework in Linux named MONO is one of these reverse engineering issues.
I believe that Linux is much more customizable that WM, especially for XDA-developers that make interesting works on WM. And also it doesn't have copyright restriction as WM has. So may be it makes many progress in world of handheld devices.

Oddly enough I was looking for Linux on Smartphone info yesterday as I've got an Alpine I'd like to be able to do something interesting with.
Demand for something like this is going to be a bit odd - by definition anyone who finds this site, let alone opens an account and posts, is going to be interested in pushing the boundaries of their device but the vast majority of WM device users are going to be in the "don't care how it works as long as it does" group.
Also, I reckon a lot of Linux dev types aren't even going to look at the device, it will never occur to them to buy one because it's sold as a Windows Mobile device, and hence isn't going to be near their installation of the hacker mentality. Without a critical mass of people who can develop in/with Linux it's always going to be a struggle.

problem is the program base
all current wm programs unless they are .net
would not run under linux on our pda's
new ones would be required to be written
or ported or....

The Nokia Internet Tablet runs on a version of Linux with a pretty robust set of applications, and this device uses an ARM processor which should be pretty friendly with regard to 'porting'.
But you'd still be stuck without a telephone application.

You can find some information here:
http://handhelds.org/moin/moin.cgi/HaRET
http://www.handhelds.org/

Oddly enough I was looking for Linux on Smartphone info yesterday as I've got an Alpine I'd like to be able to do something interesting with.
Demand for something like this is going to be a bit odd - by definition anyone who finds this site, let alone opens an account and posts, is going to be interested in pushing the boundaries of their device but the vast majority of WM device users are going to be in the "don't care how it works as long as it does" group.
Also, I reckon a lot of Linux dev types aren't even going to look at the device, it will never occur to them to buy one because it's sold as a Windows Mobile device, and hence isn't going to be near their installation of the hacker mentality. Without a critical mass of people who can develop in/with Linux it's always going to be a struggle.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
May be! as you said it is Windows mobile device and linux lovers aren't going around of it. but I think they are so curious than it.
problem is the program base
all current wm programs unless they are .net
would not run under linux on our pda's
new ones would be required to be written
or ported or....
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I do think so. since I in previous post I mentioned that .NET framework available in linux. so many of windows program can run on it.
You can find some information here:
http://handhelds.org/moin/moin.cgi/HaRET
http://www.handhelds.org/
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Hart (Reverse engineering tool for wm hardware) was interesting tool.

yeah but due to limitations and slowness only the minority of applications on windows mobile are made in .net :S

i want this one
http://www.openmoko.com/press/index.html
Regards,
Jason

Rudegar said:
problem is the program base
all current wm programs unless they are .net
would not run under linux on our pda's
new ones would be required to be written
or ported or....
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
This is not a real problem. If you want to use a particular program from WM that is a problem but why you would do that? There is very large program base for desktop Linux (many of them also exist for desktop Windows) which could be very easily ported to a handheld platform with ARM processor. If you ever looked up how many qualitative programs do exist for Japanese Linux handhelds...

Wexx said:
This is not a real problem. If you want to use a particular program from WM that is a problem but why you would do that? There is very large program base for desktop Linux (many of them also exist for desktop Windows) which could be very easily ported to a handheld platform with ARM processor. If you ever looked up how many qualitative programs do exist for Japanese Linux handhelds...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Thats one of the things that is grate about open source software - you don't even have to depend on the original developer to find the time / will to port it. Anyone with the programing knowledge can.

Upgrading beyond native OS's

I've just successfully upgraded my UK Orange SPV M700 to AX3L's WM6 ROM, and enjoying it. However, the relative ease of re-writing a ROM has led me to other questions of a more speculative nature.
I'd like forum members to know that I am not a genius in the mobile OS field, so apologies if my enquiry is 'common knowledge' so to speak, and that my question is purely speculative. I wouldn't be interested in carrying out the modifications to my own handset.
My question is this:
Given the relative ease of modifying and/or installing a new ROM on a Windows Mobile handset, would it be possible to install a non native OS onto a Windows Mobile handset. For instance, the UIQ version of Symbian, used on the P series handsets from SE, and perhaps installing Symbian Series 60 3rd Edition on non touchscreen handsets?

an os are binary files made for the cpu in the device
for an os to be able to boot
the bootloader have to be compatible with the format of the rom
and the rom have to be native binary cpu
and some drivers are required to be present for the device to boot at all
nobody i know off have 100% transfered a rom from one device to another
core kernel and driver related things have to be kept for the device to boot
upgrading a rom to another rom for the same htc device type is easy
upgrading a device to another and newer version of the os but keeping the core of the os and only add the shell and program changes is alot more work for the rom maker

To correct my previous post, Im not sure if using Windows Mobile device to run Symbian UIQ could be considered 'upgrade' more like 'sidestepping' ;-)
I understand the comments about specific programming for the device CPU. But couldn't a software workaround bypass this?
I think the same could be said for Mac and PC. In theory, you could use a G5 to run Windows (not Boot Camp). By just using the physical hardware of RAM, Hard drive and BIOS, (and of course, a CPU workaround, maybe not so much a problem with the newer Intel Macs) surely you could format the Mac structure enough to run Windows XP, and vice versa. And you could surely apply the same theory to a Pocket PC. IF you 'format' the system enough, so its basically just an empty shell, or a blank canvas if u will, you could use it for pretty much anything.
If an iPod can run a version of Linux and even Doom, then, if you so wished and had the inclination to do so, it could run the Creative Zen (or even Zune!) software.
All of these speculative suggestions are of course subject to the physical human interface. But then, the IT guy at work runs a Mac keyboard and mouse on a Dell PC at work..

ianrendall said:
To correct my previous post, Im not sure if using Windows Mobile device to run Symbian UIQ could be considered 'upgrade' more like 'sidestepping' ;-)
I understand the comments about specific programming for the device CPU. But couldn't a software workaround bypass this?
I think the same could be said for Mac and PC. In theory, you could use a G5 to run Windows (not Boot Camp). By just using the physical hardware of RAM, Hard drive and BIOS, (and of course, a CPU workaround, maybe not so much a problem with the newer Intel Macs) surely you could format the Mac structure enough to run Windows XP, and vice versa. And you could surely apply the same theory to a Pocket PC. IF you 'format' the system enough, so its basically just an empty shell, or a blank canvas if u will, you could use it for pretty much anything.
If an iPod can run a version of Linux and even Doom, then, if you so wished and had the inclination to do so, it could run the Creative Zen (or even Zune!) software.
All of these speculative suggestions are of course subject to the physical human interface. But then, the IT guy at work runs a Mac keyboard and mouse on a Dell PC at work..
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
well, if you could compile the os for the type of chip in use, write all the drivers , you could in theory get it to work....
there was a project bsck in '05 to run win 95 and 98 on a ppc and they succeded in that
and then we ave linux releases for some ppcs

also got it from some macosX developers that the system being based
on a BSD kernel which was more mature on x86 then on motorola platform
the whole macosX was first developed on pc's but never released
what you ask could be don but it would most likely time more manhours then it would be worth
and could also result in a law suit from the symbian people
you're the only person i've seen to request this i've seen so far
maybe an emulator would be the way to handle it

I'm not actually interested in doing any of this, as you say, it would be pretty pointless and legally troublesome. Just interested in the science of it.

Replace windows mobile on Vogue

I'm not sure how much discussion has gone on about this subject but I had an odd question.
With all of this development going on with Linux/Android for the vogue, I was wondering if it will be possible in the future to create an actual ROM for our vogues that will replace Windows Mobile as the OS. NFSFan's great roms attempt (very successfully) to fix the problems with WinMo, and the Android port is a separate program that runs off the storage card. I'm curious if one day it'll be possible to completely remove windows mobile in favor of say android or whatever else gets developed for the vogue, and if so will it be possible to flash back to windows mobile afterward?
Just some thoughts and questions.

Android Was Sucessfully Ported To The Vouge
I Have Good News And Bad News For You
The Good News:
Google Android Lunix Was successfully ported to the HTC Vogue By An Australian Computer Scientist. More info can be found here.
The Bad News:
Windows Mobile 6.5 and WM 7 Seem to ve so verry pomrising for PPC users that many are not going to want to switch to a Linux based OS at this time. in fact NFSFAN made the latest leaked version of windows mobile 6.5 availble to the HTC Vouge Here. Anoother Reason A Full-On Linux Rom May Not Cme Out Is That may disros of Linux including mobile distros (this includes android) are produced for free under the terms of the GNU general Public License. That says that usres are "Entitled and encouraged to copy modify and redistribute" the content. Witch Means Microsoft Wloud Not make their Money.
I admit it is a good idea for Linux roms as an alternative for those who dont't like their winMo devices. But then again android and symbian Linux only makes up less than 5% of the smart-phone market at the present time

koman90 said:
I Have Good News And Bad News For You
The Good News:
Google Android Lunix Was successfully ported to the HTC Vogue By An Australian Computer Scientist. More info can be found here.
The Bad News:
Windows Mobile 6.5 and WM 7 Seem to ve so verry pomrising for PPC users that many are not going to want to switch to a Linux based OS at this time. in fact NFSFAN made the latest leaked version of windows mobile 6.5 availble to the HTC Vouge Here. Anoother Reason A Full-On Linux Rom May Not Cme Out Is That may disros of Linux including mobile distros (this includes android) are produced for free under the terms of the GNU general Public License. That says that usres are "Entitled and encouraged to copy modify and redistribute" the content. Witch Means Microsoft Wloud Not make their Money.
I admit it is a good idea for Linux roms as an alternative for those who dont't like their winMo devices. But then again android and symbian Linux only makes up less than 5% of the smart-phone market at the present time
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I disagree completely - Android will be a major player and a native ROM would be awesome. Android is so much more than Symbian that its disgraceful putting them together in the same sentence. It hasn't been around very long yet but give it another year or two and I predict it will not be very far behind WinMo in market share.
Also, when you say another reason a full rom won't come out is because MS won't make their money - the devices have very little to do with MS; HTC, Samsung, HP etc all make PDA's which happen to run WinMo but now that there is a cheaper (free) alternative to WinMo I'm sure they will all have at least one device running it.
I really hope someone (NFSFAN ) puts out a native Android ROM for the Vogue.

BTW the link you posted is for the storage card install and not a native android install.
more info here: http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=382265

Maybe this could be interesting too.
http://www.precentral.net/pre-developer-rom-uncovered-could-lead-hackingcustomization

may I dare to say that I tried android on the vogue but I still like winmo better?
I am sorry guys.

joe11211 said:
may I dare to say that I tried android on the vogue but I still like winmo better?
I am sorry guys.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
How dare you! I'm a WinMo 6.5 fan myself - really liking this version. Just waiting for Android to support all of the Vogue hardware to try it out (ie GPS).

[q] is there anyway to use two os in defy?

HI EVERYONE
IS THERE ANY WAY TO USE TWO OS IN DEFY?
I MEAN WM7 AND ANDROID OS !
THE POINT IS IF YOU CAN LAUNCH EACH OS AT WHAT THEY GOT YOU CAN UNLIMITEDLY USE DIFFERENT TYPE OF GAMES AND THEMES AND MULTI USE ONCE .
EVEN DEFY HAS ALL THE GREAT POWER TO USE THEM AT ONCE.

Since the Bootloader is still locked, I don't really think it works. After all, the only device I know can run both Android and WM7 is HTC HD2 which seem like supported by HTC.

HI SWAT AXEL
NO, THAT'S NOT POSSIBLE. WINDOWS MOBILE DEVICES CAN RUN ANDROID, BUT NOT THE OTHER WAY ROUND. A WINDOWS MOBILE OS CAN'T BE USED ON AN ANDROID PHONE BECAUSE OF IT'S HARDWARE, IT JUST WORKS ON WINDOWS DEVICES.

that would be nice

thanks for reply , but if you have checked (cydia)in iphone it has (fake os) feature that allows to use android , and i still believe there is a way.
i hope we can reach that point.

Yes, I would also love it to work, but in an other forum I read that that's not possible (sorry, I don't have the link right now) because of the hardware.
But who knows, maybe a dev can do that with a trick or so.
(I clicked accidentaly the "thanks" button, I hope it does't annoy you )