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Can't we upgrade it????
I have X1 and from what I read, it has an old CE..whereas the Win7Phone has CE 7 o something, if its software, can't we upgrade or update it????
circleofomega said:
Can't we upgrade it????
I have X1 and from what I read, it has an old CE..whereas the Win7Phone has CE 7 o something, if its software, can't we upgrade or update it????
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Can't be upgrade as it's completely different kernal.
<<Basic Definition Here>>
CE stands for "Compact Edition" I have a HP Jornada 420 that came out in 1999 and has the first version on it,They change it to Windows Mobile when you could use the phone on it..
spannernick said:
CE stands for "Compact Edition" I have a HP Jornada 420 that came out in 1999 and has the first version on it,They change it to Windows Mobile when you could use the phone on it..
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actually CE is the main operating system. Windows Mobile is a layer on top of it that includes telephony support and such.
spannernick said:
CE stands for "Compact Edition" I have a HP Jornada 420 that came out in 1999 and has the first version on it,They change it to Windows Mobile when you could use the phone on it..
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Officially, I don't think CE ever stood for anything until relatively recently when MS decided to rebrand the CE 6.0 kernel "Windows Embedded Compact". MS used to claim it stood for various things like "Compact", "Connected", etc. but they pretty much admit it never meant anything in the beginning.
Also, the Jornada 420 is hardly one of the first CE devices. It is a Palm Size PC that runs CE 2.11 with a color screen for crying out loud! It's at least the 3rd or 4th iteration of hardware designed for the OS. Heck, It isn't even the first release of Pocket PC's predecessor platform, Palm Size PC. Windows CE truly started with the original Handheld PC 1.0 platform back in 1996. Pocket PC and then Windows Mobile is really just another evolution of the original, intentionally crippled Handheld PC spinoff platform known as Palm (Size) PC. It was essentially the Smartphone of its day. Like Smartphone, it began as the intentionally crippled platform for weaker hardware while Handheld PC eventually evolved into a higher end, mini notebook replacement OS with support for USB, high resolutions color screens and faster processors. It is Palm Size PC we have to thank for lacking exit buttons, crippled file/save dialogs and the inability to open a second instance of applications on Windows Mobile. In some ways, my CE 1.0 MobilePro 400 is still feels less crippled and more productive than even the current Windows Mobile 6.5.3 devices. Perfect example: you can open multiple copies of Internet Explorer/Word/Excel/whatever, switch between them and open/save files from any location right out of the box. On the CE 2.0 rom, I can save/open anything to a UNC path over my network. Clearly, MS removing more "advanced" features and intentionally crippling the OS is nothing new when it comes to mainstream, consumer targeted CE platforms. :/ Though, Pocket PC at least retained backwards compatability, multitasking and added Office and IE. I guess Windows Phone 7 Series will just finish up their dream of making the most retardified CE OS possible that Pocket PC/PsPC began all those years ago. At least Vista/7 on the desktop lets you turn retard mode off.
RAMMANN said:
actually CE is the main operating system. Windows Mobile is a layer on top of it that includes telephony support and such.
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What's with people and their nebulous definitions of things.
"CE" is the name of the kernel that Pocket PC/Windows Mobile/Windows Phone Series/Zune devices use.
A "kernel" is the heart and soul of an operating system. Around it and its APIs everything else is built.
Windows 7, for example, is built ontop of the Windows NT 6.1 kernel.
TFGBD said:
At least Vista/7 on the desktop lets you turn retard mode off.
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What exactly do you mean by "retard mode" in Vista and 7?
P.S.: If you're referring to User Account Control, it's you who's the retard.
; )
Spike15 said:
What's with people and their nebulous definitions of things.
"CE" is the name of the kernel that Pocket PC/Windows Mobile/Windows Phone Series/Zune devices use.
A "kernel" is the heart and soul of an operating system. Around it and its APIs everything else is built.
Windows 7, for example, is built ontop of the Windows NT 6.1 kernel.
What exactly do you mean by "retard mode" in Vista and 7?
P.S.: If you're referring to User Account Control, it's you who's the retard.
; )
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Heh. Nah, I wasn't talking about UAC though I guess you can count that. I was mainly thinking of stuff like the ability to show hidden files, hidden menu bars in Vista, admin settings and various other more advanced features that are hidden by default all throughout every version of desktop Windows but still easily disabled/found if power users need them. The CE platforms never got so lucky. Things just get removed for the hell of it to make room for crap in ROM or when they "confuse the user". It sure would be nice if Pocket IE still let you configure half the things it let you back in 1997... I really don't like this trend of removing and simplifying things just because it is a "Mobile" version.
TFGBD said:
Heh. Nah, I wasn't talking about UAC though I guess you can count that.
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Well UAC has nothing to do with "retard mode", it's actually a very powerful security feature, and turning it off goes against every best practice out-line in the security handbook -- which are written and designed for IT pros.
So unless IT pros are retards...
TFGBD said:
I was mainly thinking of stuff like the ability to show hidden files, hidden menu bars in Vista, admin settings and various other more advanced features that are hidden by default all throughout every version of desktop Windows but still easily disabled/found if power users need them. The CE platforms never got so lucky. Things just get removed for the hell of it to make room for crap in ROM or when they "confuse the user". Though, I still think it would be nice if Pocket IE still let you configure half of the things it let you back in 1997... I really don't like this trend of removing and simplifying things just because it is a "Mobile" version.
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Yeah I agree with that design.
I appreciate the need to make things "user-friendly", even if that means jack **** to me.
What I don't appreciate is when companies assume that "user-friendly" and "enthusiast-friendly" are mutually exclusive. You just have to hide the enthusiast/power user/pro features in such a way that they're immediately accessible to their target audiences, without confusing or getting in the way of the average user.
I don't understand why Microsoft -- a company that's become the master of this -- has decided to just totally divorce themselves from it in their up-and-coming mobile platform.
The only thing I can think of is that the WP7S team is a bunch of modern tech populist assholes who can't get their heads close enough to being out of their ass to see anything beyond "iPhone" and "cloud computing".
Hello,
one question bothers me since the first time I have heard about WP7. Why Microsoft have decided to create a whole new OS without thinking of OS that would ne NT-based so any program made for normal PC would run on our phones. Just imagine, how many developers could easily port their programs to new OS, just changin the screen size, leaving all core components just the same... All classic PC games, like Blood, Duke Nukem workin flawlesly on a phone without the need of any port. I believe, that it is the only real way to compete with Android and Iphone OS. What do you think?
Wolfas said:
Hello,
one question bothers me since the first time I have heard about WP7. Why Microsoft have decided to create a whole new OS without thinking of OS that would ne NT-based so any program made for normal PC would run on our phones. Just imagine, how many developers could easily port their programs to new OS, just changin the screen size, leaving all core components just the same... All classic PC games, like Blood, Duke Nukem workin flawlesly on a phone without the need of any port. I believe, that it is the only real way to compete with Android and Iphone OS. What do you think?
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if the app was created in siverlight/c# which alot of newer apps are then it can be ported to wp7.. For sometime now microsoft has been pushing their silverlight for devolpers to use so if the games you mentioned is bult in silverlight there should be no problem...
NT on a mobile phone would be a usability nightmare...look how far windows mobile got with the masses. Microsoft is not catering towards the hackers, but the masses.
And to be honest, I would not touch any mobile device running NT...LOL.
Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I897 using XDA App
emuneee said:
NT on a mobile phone would be a usability nightmare...look how far windows mobile got with the masses. Microsoft is not catering towards the hackers, but the masses.
And to be honest, I would not touch any mobile device running NT...LOL.
Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I897 using XDA App
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me eather!!! i am so done with wm 6.0, 6.1, 6.5 and its many problems having to flashing rom after rom, restarting the device cause it has no memory left, this list goes on... wp7 is like a breth of fresh air...
Why so negative? WM always had problems, but the level of freedom and customization made me love this platform more and more. And I wouldn't be so sure about unpopularity of this kind of new OS, as NT-based Windows OS platform is the most popular in PC world, stable and nice-looking enough, so why it couldn't be that popular in mobile phones, especially with wide variety of programs already designed for this platform, only waiting for small fixes of resolution? Those games are from dos era, with no good port on any mobile platform...
wolfas said:
why so negative? Wm always had problems, but the level of freedom and customization made me love this platform more and more. And i wouldn't be so sure about unpopularity of this kind of new os, as nt-based windows os platform is the most popular in pc world, stable and nice-looking enough, so why it couldn't be that popular in mobile phones, especially with wide variety of programs already designed for this platform, only waiting for small fixes of resolution? Those games are from dos era, with no good port on any mobile platform...
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dont get me wrong i not trying to say 6.5 is not for some people just not for me... I think the fact that smartphones moved to a more touch enviroment it seems that the old wm is not as finger friendly and made more for the use of an stylist, to me this type of os seems to not work well on mobile devices for long peorids without a reboot maybe its the way its design or maybe it just have too many things of the desktop enviroment not sure but it gets to be a problem for me, others my not mind. As far as customizing goes well guess you cant have everything.. i personaly would prefer a more stable os than customization, and i am sure additional pc like options will come as well as more customization in the future..
I think the main reason why NT would not make a good mobile OS is simply because it was never designed or meant to run on a mobile device. Your phone is not a computer, so your phone needs an operating environment to suit it's purpose.
The "phone as a computer" approach has been tried by Microsoft, it's called Windows Mobile. While I love Windows Mobile, I have to say, having "Windows NT" on a phone just doesn't make sense.
While it would be cool to play Duke Nukem on your Windows NT mobile device, at the end of the day, you are going to put down your Windows NT phone and just sit at your computer and play Duke Nukem on that. It's just a better overall experience, and Windows NT was designed for that sit-down, productive, huge screen experience. So it wouldn't make sense to invest in a platform that no one would use at the end of the day because their desktop computer does it better.
What you have to do is create an entirely unique and different experience designed for the phone and "on-the-go" life, to complement the Windows NT desktop experience. That is after all, what your phone is for. That's what Windows Phone 7 is.
Can't wait to get my hands on a Windows Phone 7.... phone.... XD
Well, I guess you are right, but I will try once more to support my idea, if you don't mind. I still see some reasons why NT- based mobile OS would be a good idea:
1. There are plenty of popular netbooks, tablet PC's and other relative small devices with full XP, Vista or Win7 OS. All of them are made for on the go experience and still having NT OS. Not even talking about miniature UMPC's. We also often leave these devices unused when we turn on our normal PC's at home, but doesn't prevent them from having huge popularity.
2. Of cource, I do not want to suggest porting normal WinXP to mobile phones (but win98 on my touch pro didn't look half that bad ), but rather something with an UI suited for small screens, but still capable to run any application made for normal Windows.
3. I also think about the interest of developers to this kind of OS. Theorically, there would be no need to learn OS-specific programming, just the things used on any NT OS. Most of the developers who makes programs for PC would be able to make a version for this OS just by changing the resolution, leaving engine just the same.
Please, say your opinion about these things I've pointed out
1. Netbooks and tablets still operate outside of the smartphone arena of capabilities and requirements for most users. There is a reason why there isn't a successful phone running Windows XP. You can write the drivers and software for phone functionality, but at the end of the day NT was not produced with phones in mind.
2. Applications written for desktops are written for desktop processors and memory capacities. Its not a simple change of just resolutions. What if an app request memory that doesn't exist on the mobile device? Chances are the mobile device can't even address that amount of memory. So you design a mobile focused NT kernel...well now all apps can't run on both platforms..so what's the point.
3. Yes you do, because all the capabilities available on a desktop aren't available on a smartphone. Developers still have to keep that in mind when their app is in development.
I sit here looking at my Windows XP work workstation and I would kill myself if I had to use this on a phone. Windows Mobile was hard enough.
Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I897 using XDA App
I forget the name but there was a secret (ish) project inside Microsoft to make the NT kernel more portable and sorta combine it with the CE kernel. They were basically building off the MinWin work.
But remember, native code still wouldn't be cross platform. x86 and ARM are not binary compatible. Just look at "OSX" on Mac desktops and "OSX" as the base of "iOS". Nothing crosses back and forth.
The NT kernel doesn't scale down that well yet. The kernel land is still full of bidirectional vertical dependencies. The current lowest profile incarnation called MinWin needs like 40MB RAM to boot to a text console and offer next to no APIs and is still shock full of missing dependencies (apparently boot loader magic makes it not break on boot).
Once they're really done despaghettifying, you might see it on mobile devices. But that'll still take a while, because right now, slimming down involves tons of aliasing dependencies to nothing.
Absolutely no reason why they could not run NT on a smart phone but why would they? They already have Windows CE (aka pocket PC) and if MS had been serious about Pocket PC IMHO they would be in a much better market position now.
One of the biggest messups with Pocket PC is the inconsistancy of the user interface and MS failed to revamp the 6.5 completely for touch.... They have a lot of good things going with WM 6.5 but it was an incomplete effort and it shows.
well, I see you are right... That NT is much more complex monster than I thought, thanks for clearing that out Yesterday, I found information about device called xpPhone, I wonder what would you say about it ? http://www.xpphone.com/en/product/specification.html
Hi guys,
Over the years as a Windows mobile fan, i have acumalated quite a large amound of Windows Mobile 6.1 / 6.5 Apps / games etc.. I know they have almost always worked on both 6.1 and 6.5 but will this be the case for Windows Mobile 7 ?
Are my collection of apps etc.. any good ?
Thanks
WM 6 or older apps won't work on Windows Phone 7. There is no backwards compatibility.
Consider WP7 not as "Windows Mobile 7", next generation of WM, but something completely new.
mktos said:
WM 6 or older apps won't work on Windows Phone 7. There is no backwards compatibility.
Consider WP7 not as "Windows Mobile 7", next generation of WM, but something completely new.
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Exactly. It's not Windows Mobile 7 but Windows Phone 7.
So this would mean everything new from scratch, but i'm sure new apps and stuff should start coming out for it considerably quick right?
I'm a bit of a app/game freak love to customise my gadgets, loved the CHT UI for my HD2 so would love it if something like that was available for Windows Phone 7.
I want to but the HD7, but at really attached to my beloved HD2 and all the apps and custom stuff i have done to it, i'm sure you know what i mean and how i feel.
Thanks for the replies very much appreciated.
There will be lots of apps and especially games for WP7.
However, there will not be any sort of home screen customization/hacking. Maybe eventually but it will only come in the way of hacked firmware and will not be officially supported (this is no different than CHT though).
Hi !
As far as I know, beneath Windows Phone 7 there is basically still Windows CE running. So I'm wondering, is/may/will it be possible to run Windows Mobile 6 Apps on Windows Phone 7? Or do we already know that this can't happen because the underlying architecture is too different? Is anyone working on this?
For example, has anyone tried to copy a Windows Mobile 6 Filemanager to WP7 and run it somehow?
Best regards
intripoon
I'm going to go with no here.... not only from all of the months and months and months of people saying no but from the simple fact that WP7 is based on silverlight which wm 6.1 and 6.5 aren't.... at all....
This is why aps aren't backwards OR forwards compatible which people put up a pretty big stink about when WP7 was announced but seems to have died down now that we're able to see what can actually be done with silverlight
So... no.. not compatible
Also, just think about the work to emulate the wm6 crappiness. Thousand of empty bucles, glitchy graphic rendering, millions of delays, agggg..
No, seriously. Windows Mobile was powerful, but it's just too old. It should be possible to emulate the applications (in theory everything is possible), but I think is just too much effort, and there is no such big reason to put resources on something like that.
I was wondering, tht when buying a new smartphone if I go with windows based OS on mobile, will I be able to run any software tht can run on windows based desktop computer? If not, such functionality is expected to come with forthcoming Windows 8 mobile?
PS: I wana run my live stock market terminal on mobile phone.
Since ver 7, the os is no longer called windows mobile; its now called windows phone. but to answer your question, no you can't run desktop applications on windows phone (or windows mobile for that matter) and this is unlikely to change.
That said I'm sure you can find another application to achieve whatever it is that you're after on the marketplace...
:-( my all needs are getting completed with an smartphone, but i guess eventually i will have to buy a laptop as well... just to run my stockmarket software.... Damn and they are telling smartphones (Like SGS2 etc.) are quickly replacing laptops...
PS: Wht is the latest ver. of windows phone called and, what is the windows phone marketplace url (Kind of new to smartphones)
Well for a lot of people smartphones or tablets can replace computers, most people aren't stockbrokers!
The latest version of Windows Phone is 7.5 Mango, which is currently at RTM stage - i.e. released to OEMs pending approval for new devices and upgrades to existing devices.
The Windows Phone Marketplace can only be accessed via the phone or via the Zune desktop software. The Zune software comes highly recommended from me, it's a very, very good media management software and I can't live without the wireless sync function anymore!
You can browse the marketplace through Zune without owning a Windows Phone device.
Perhaps you could let the community know what it is exactly that you need to do and someone might be able to suggest something?
EDIT: As you're new to smartphones, from a usability perspective Windows Phone 7 would be an excellent choice for you - it is simply brilliant to use, the interface is understated and elegant and the lack of pointless graphics makes it both simple and quick. Microsoft have clearly put massive effort into making Windows Phone highly usable and have surpassed pretty much all expectations, especially with the 7.5 update, which brings in a huge amount of functionality. A lot of people try and put Windows Phone down having never used it, because it's one of those things that needs you to spend 10 minutes with it to understand - but once you've spent 9 minutes with it, everything else just seems ridiculously complicated.
olivespin said:
:-( my all needs are getting completed with an smartphone, but i guess eventually i will have to buy a laptop as well... just to run my stockmarket software.... Damn and they are telling smartphones (Like SGS2 etc.) are quickly replacing laptops...
PS: Wht is the latest ver. of windows phone called and, what is the windows phone marketplace url (Kind of new to smartphones)
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Silverlight in Windows
Hi
Silverlight apps are currently available in Windows and I think that the concept being put out there at the moment is that Windows 8 will run the same apps as Windows Mobile 8.
Nobody knows if this will become a reality or not.
Cheers
andrew-in-woking
olivespin said:
I was wondering, tht when buying a new smartphone if I go with windows based OS on mobile, will I be able to run any software tht can run on windows based desktop computer? If not, such functionality is expected to come with forthcoming Windows 8 mobile?
PS: I wana run my live stock market terminal on mobile phone.
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Click to collapse
The best thing for you to do would be to find a mobile version of the software you are trying to run. Then get the device that runs that particular software.
The closest you'll come to running your "exact" software on a mobile device is to get a Windows based tablet or laptop. But to run your stock software on a smartphone, you will need the "mobile" version of that software, if it exists.
Also, check to see if your stock-terminal application is web-based. If it is, you may be able to access what you need with ANY smartphone through the smartphone's web browser. That means your "stock terminal" would work on Windows Phone, iPhone, Android, etc.