Develop Bugs

Gotta love Microsoft...BUT

I wouldn't say I love Microsoft, but they do have the market for computer software and I do have quite a bit of their hardware, the MS stearing wheel been a fine bit of kit.
I have used Windows operating systems since Windows 3.1 to the present XP (Vista any day now). I have been using a PocketPC for the past few years with software ranging from Windows Mobile 2003 to the 2005 version, all under licence from the vendor I bourght the phone from.
Whilst the pre packaged software on my PDA is all good and well I have had a much more productive and fun time using my device since I stumbled across XDA-developers.com website, usefull information, people who are in the same boat and development on the software to only increese the usabillity of it.
This is the reason I started this thread.
Everyone that own's a PocketPC/PDA has bourght it. This means that once the device has been bourght you have paid for the Microsoft licence of the installed software.
When you buy a copy of Windows for your home or business computer you have a few differnet ways you can install the software, there are lots of third party bits of software you can install, so you can customize the way your computer is setup.
Microsoft are gonna make xda-developers.com to take down the files that are posted on this site.
I believe that as we have all payed to have the software on our PDA's we have the right to have any version that we want, modified or not. Yes, we shouldn't have versions that haven't been "officially" realeased on our PDA's but even with those there are people who have got the ROM's and made them better.
Microsoft should be quite gratefull that there are people out there to make a bit of software they have developed even better, why should it be any skin of there noses for a bit of software they have allready been paid for!!!
Microsoft can't stop new ROM's been realesed on the internet, if Vista is on all the torrent sites there's no way they are gonna stop a new Windows Mobile ROM appearing.
To conclude...Microsoft should know a good thing when they see it. XDA-Developers.com is that!

Well laid out. I totally agree with you. What M$ doesn't understand is that more roms will start to fly around on un-monitored sites. These sites will lack the support provided at xda-developers and customer complains will sky rocket through the roofs.

Like jack bauer say... "Damn it M$", we need our own Chloe O'brian (a mean betatester)... YOU GUYS!
LONG LIFE XDA-DEVELOPERS!!!

You are right !
M$ have a basic problem in their buisness concept ... not letting people have the freedom that they need and want to upgrade and evolve their OS
And that's why (i believe) people are starting to switch to other OS like OSX or linux.
I am very much afraid that it will also start happening in our mobile decives with symbian and others ...
because although WM5 (and 6) tend to .... crash, hang, or just not work, in my opinion it is the most versitile OS there is .... plenty of programs for it ... and plenty of programmers making new stuff as they go, and that's without including ROM maker which are a whole highly respectable group on their own.
I believe that it is our decision to upgrade, as well as our legal right(for the OS' price is no doubt included in the device's retail price) BUT people must have no right to complain after screwing with their device or worse (bricking it).
And in that respect i agree with M$.
So i propose the middle ground, asking M$ if writing a diclaimer here on XDA that users must go through before downloading and/or upgrading their device will do, and hope that they accept.
if not ...
find a legal loophole, because I for one am not willing to give XDA up just yet !
sorry if i bored you guys, but that's just the way i feel about this whole thing.
UPGRADE ON !
heh.

I have never been one to defend Microsoft, but from reading their letter carefully, it would appear it has more to do with the mobile operators putting pressure on them. Two things I would like to say in response to this.
1) If the mobile operators and manufacturers would employ developers who were even half as quick and resourceful as the developers here, they might actually have sold me a phone that worked properly to start with, unlike my SPV M5000 which was crashing on a daily basis, even with their latest ROM, until I updated it with a ROM from this forum. Had I not been saved by this this amazing forum, I would have demanded a refund, Orange would have lost money and I would have moved to a different company.
2) People who update their phones with ROM images from this forum should know better than to seek support from their mobile operator after having updated their ROM. They should have known that they would not like this.
Now we all have to suffer.

They'll have to face't!
columbo said:
I have never been one to defend Microsoft, but from reading their letter carefully, it would appear it has more to do with the mobile operators putting pressure on them. Two things I would like to say in response to this.
1) If the mobile operators and manufacturers would employ developers who were even half as quick and resourceful as the developers here, they might actually have sold me a phone that worked properly to start with, unlike my SPV M5000 which was crashing on a daily basis, even with their latest ROM, until I updated it with a ROM from this forum. Had I not been saved by this this amazing forum, I would have demanded a refund, Orange would have lost money and I would have moved to a different company.
2) People who update their phones with ROM images from this forum should know better than to seek support from their mobile operator after having updated their ROM. They should have known that they would not like this.
Now we all have to suffer.
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I have never gone to my mobile operator nor the phone support service center! I have not a single doubt in my mind that I know better than the "technician" sitting behind his desk claiming to fix my PDA whenever it hicks up!
This forum and only THIS FORUM, helped 100K of people to fix their own PDAs and even created a wide knowledge to those beginners who knew nada about roms or tweaking pdas!
But sorry to say that OS developers have gone too far this time and as it was rightly said, the tighter and tougher they become the more roms ther will be out there even more than they can imagine, since it is a challenge they've started, they'll have to face't.

columbo said:
I have never been one to defend Microsoft, but from reading their letter carefully, it would appear it has more to do with the mobile operators putting pressure on them.
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Click to collapse
I think that, in this case, M$ is hiding itself behind the mobile operators. Bit too easy, ain't it...

In the end
In the end it all comes down to this:
We ALL get F*CKED in the (*) by Bill Gates and his friends

bastiaanoskam said:
In the end it all comes down to this:
We ALL get F*CKED in the (*) by Bill Gates and his friends
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Click to collapse
What an amazingly constructive comment you made there...... I would say that this is just a part of life and there is nothing we can do about it. To be honest we all knew this course of action was inevitable.
This action is corporate companies trying to protect there product - can you really blame them for that....... Money makes the world go round and all that...

columbo said:
1) If the mobile operators and manufacturers would employ developers who were even half as quick and resourceful as the developers here, they might actually have sold me a phone that worked properly to start with...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Well why don't they employ US
I am unemployed atm...

your support is used with a Petition

Hi,
Please participate to petition, otherwise it becomes soon boringly here.
XDA Developers Petition
MfG
S64

Not much info in this post, but the link is to the petition to allow XDA-Developers to host ROMs again. MS banned them from hosting them a while back, and all it did was make people use File-Sharing websites instead.
Personally, I think having them held on XDA-Dev and moderated is a much more secure method than having to store them on file sharing.
If you want XDA-Dev to be able to host ROMs, sign the petition. If you don't, don't!

Thanks Stu for clarifying this thread! Interesting petition...I'll check it out.

thanks sign and put in sig

perhaps a better name for this petition would be "Dear Microsoft, my name's XXX and I like stealing your software"

That does not have to steal only change nothing also.
Everyone, which any HTC of the telephones possesses, the software already paid.
Hoping are not still more people of your opinion.
We all profit from forums like this.
Everyone that that does not please, can dissolve its account here.

I have absolutely nothing against xda-developers's roms, i've used many of them and I think they're great.
I do, however. think that it's slightly naive to tell a notoriously litigious company that you enjoy stealing their products.

Onto my soapbox
I do not, and never have, considered what XDA Dev does to be stealing. We take released ROMs, and make the best ones we can from the best bits. To my mind, it's very similar to taking a load of Ford cars (say) and making a car with the best bits - so some ROMs have the space of a people carrier (Dutty), some have the performance of a GT (TNT) and some have the customisability of a Focus ST (Pandora). Ford have then come along and told us we cannot hold these finished cars on our yard, so we're making them and distributing them via all the local dealerships!
To my mind, it's much easier to keep dangerous ROMs off the streets (and hence lower "warranty" claims) if we're just allowed to host the ROMs again. That'll give the chefs and mods a lot more control and simplify the current stupid situation of having to use file sharing sites.
Apologies for the analogy (and I know everyone will disagree with the cars/manufacturer/ROMs parrallels, but it was only a hastily thrown together example) but this is just my two cents worth.

unfortunately software is not like a car, it is one of those lovely bits of intangible IP that allows the manufacturer to have enduring rights over it - it doesn't matter what we consider to be stealing, it's not our consideration to make.
tbh i think that xda-devs would be a great help to certain phone companies (just look how awful the first vario II rom was compared to some of the roms that have come out of here), but you may as well petition the RIAA to allow you to download music for free because you're really good at remixing

I do not understand your point. We do not "ask for free music" we already paid for it. As far as i know, our hermes came with a valid licence no? And as far as i know, htc is giving us the ability to download wm6 without paying once more for it...

HTC pay M$ for a license to allow them to create device specific roms, these roms are either distributed to people who bought direct from HTC or are distributed via providers such as tmobile (who license the software from HTC/M$ and develop it further). Similarly, a person who wished to cover or remix a song must obtain the right to do it from the original creator/owner of the intellectual property that is the music/words/etc.
HTC and providers try to protect the money they have paid for licenses by making it necessary to enter IMEI/serial numbers in order to download rom updates and provide them only for their customers.
Xda developers do not license the right to develop roms from M$ or HTC

Umm, You all do know that you're quite a few months late on this whole spreading the word on the petition thing...right?
I did sign the petition...long ago, but myself..I don't see what the fuss is about, Im sure I have missed a couple posts, but so far in this wm6 section, I have only seen one person with a bogus ROM they had got, and were asking about, also Im pretty sure they said that came from a torrent.
The ftp here isn't known to be the cleanest, as far as bogus files etc, and yes I know there is a locked down section..once the file is approved or whatever the word used in this case might be, but that requires mod's to constantly stay ontop of, and files are shared before they get there.
Also, I don't know how fat the pipe is here, but all this hosting on the fileshare sites has to be helping..I would think, cause the number of HTC devices increases, along with the numbers of cooked ROM's, Im sure even now, the number of downloads for all the cooked roms just in this section has to be outrageous.

Forum request: LG KS20

Hi Admins,
Could you please add a forum section with LG KS20?
Many Thanks!

Who's the Manufacturer of the LG device. Is it HTC? No? Then I don't see that happening.

JimmyMcGee said:
Who's the Manufacturer of the LG device. Is it HTC? No? Then I don't see that happening.
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hahaha...owned

Meanwhile i'd like to have a LG KS20 Section too. More and more people seem to have that device...

Yes would be great to have a KS20 section, count me in

Read the first reply!
Who's the Manufacturer of the LG device. Is it HTC? No? Then I don't see that happening.
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Click to collapse

this is very funny...does noone get the point....this is 100th request for some phones...people are crazy
and by the way there is a siemens on the forum....siemens ofcourse isn't htc,neither is atom...but they are ok...we got used to them and they are ppc's

farukb said:
this is very funny...does noone get the point....this is 100th request for some phones...people are crazy
and by the way there is a siemens on the forum....siemens ofcourse isn't htc,neither is atom...but they are ok...we got used to them and they are ppc's
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Click to collapse
The Siemens was made by HTC (same as some HP devices, and the X1) so it has very similar IPL/SPL code.
The Atom was because there was some confusion over who was making it, but, that is the exception, not the rule.

With all the respect I have for "xda" developers community, what's the purpose of refusing a new forum section based on the brand when you're a forum that grew up enough to become a reference in ppc developement ? Sentences like "Is it HTC? No? Then I don't see that happening." are either trolling (if that's the case, well done ), or belong to another time in another place. To me it sounds a little like "hey you lg niggas, we accept you in our htc bus, but just stand in the back".
I thought we were here to share knowledge to serve the whole ppc community. If I was an admin, I would consider making sections when enough requests (but, I'm not admin and moreover, may be there are not enough now, I can't say) (well, to be honest, I pretty agree that there's not so much ks20 threads).
What I know is that ks20 hardware is pretty similar to kaiser's one (up to the point that older versions of kaiser's android booted on ks20), that with a lot of work we finally managed to build tools to extract rom files (I don't speak about batch files, but something similar to nbinfo/nbsplit/nbmerge), that enabled us to build a kitchen, for a part thanks to xda community, and that it would serve ks20 community for more simplicity to regroup them.
If you think that there's not enough demand to do it, I've got absolutely no problem with that and I totally understand it, but please don't use htc arguments or else you'll see that one day, the brand-segregated minority will revolt, compose a call pointing their phone towards htc users and turn them all out into pop-corn

spocky12 said:
With all the respect I have for "xda" developers community, what's the purpose of refusing a new forum section based on the brand when you're a forum that grew up enough to become a reference in ppc developement ? Sentences like "Is it HTC? No? Then I don't see that happening." are either trolling (if that's the case, well done ), or belong to another time in another place. To me it sounds a little like "hey you lg niggas, we accept you in our htc bus, but just stand in the back".
I thought we were here to share knowledge to serve the whole ppc community. If I was an admin, I would consider making sections when enough requests (but, I'm not admin and moreover, may be there are not enough now, I can't say) (well, to be honest, I pretty agree that there's not so much ks20 threads).
What I know is that ks20 hardware is pretty similar to kaiser's one (up to the point that older versions of kaiser's android booted on ks20), that with a lot of work we finally managed to build tools to extract rom files (I don't speak about batch files, but something similar to nbinfo/nbsplit/nbmerge), that enabled us to build a kitchen, for a part thanks to xda community, and that it would serve ks20 community for more simplicity to regroup them.
If you think that there's not enough demand to do it, I've got absolutely no problem with that and I totally understand it, but please don't use htc arguments or else you'll see that one day, the brand-segregated minority will revolt, compose a call pointing their phone towards htc users and turn them all out into pop-corn
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Click to collapse
No I'm not a Troll, I moved out from under my bridge long ago.
I'm reiterating what I've seen spoken by the mod numerous times.
The simple fact is not that we hate or a "phonecist" towards LG. Its a matter of Drawing a line in the sand to help with Administration, Server Load and Bandwidth Usage Issues.
If we start adding none HTC phones, we will have a harder time keeping the noobs calm and the spammers away. It will require and even bigger server with even more bandwidth and that cost more money.
We all know the founders really aren't making money of this venture so since its their bank accounts that have to cover the costs if Donation, Store and Ad revenue don't. So they can say only HTC device if they please.
So don't play the "race card." You look silly. If The founders don't want to add non HTC devices they don't have to, and any amount of wishing and asking and complaining will not change that.
But I bet you could find/make a place like XDA for LG or Samsung.

I totally understand your point and don't blame the admins, they do what they want with their forums. It's just that when you start adding exceptions, you open a breach and then it's difficult to explain why you do this and not that.
I hope my post was not taken seriously (I think I've put enough smileys to show it was not written that way).
As to make/join another forum, problem here with ks20 is that it's the only Windows Mobile device from lg, so in a way, we're far closer to xda community than classic lg mobile community. After all, we're just lost orphans begging for a place in this world

spocky12 said:
I totally understand your point and don't blame the admins, they do what they want with their forums. It's just that when you start adding exceptions, you open a breach and then it's difficult to explain why you do this and not that.
I hope my post was not taken seriously (I think I've put enough smileys to show it was not written that way).
As to make/join another forum, problem here with ks20 is that it's the only Windows Mobile device from lg, so in a way, we're far closer to xda community than classic lg mobile community. After all, we're just lost orphans begging for a place in this world
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Right Which is why they don't allow any exceptions.
I wasn't singling you out, just posting same reasons why you won't see LG devices here soon, or Samsung for that matter.
Well what you could do is, call HTC and LG and have one "acquire" the other, then all would be happy because the admins could make a LG KS20 forum.

I don't think it's just that it's LG.
The T-Mobile Shadow is HTC though they still won't make us a forum.

KEROLiUKAS said:
I don't think it's just that it's LG.
The T-Mobile Shadow is HTC though they still won't make us a forum.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Have you asked? And Said Please?

JimmyMcGee said:
Have you asked? And Said Please?
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Actually...Never mind it's there, but not under smartphones, it's under the PPC with 3 sections. that's why i never saw it.

I've got a KS20 as well.
LG has released their 2nd Windows Mobile based device, the Prada II.
Hopefully if they keep going we'll get an LG forum up and running soon!

yeah there will never be a lg forum, this site is htc only. so there will nenver be any non htc devices here
when i got my omnia i asked and they said no, and eventually accepted that. i then wen on to create my own forum similar to this one but it will include all windows moblie devices
its in my signature below. there is already a lg ks20 forum with unlocking details and a few roms for it in the roms section
ill look forward to seeing you there

lasertip said:
I've got a KS20 as well.
LG has released their 2nd Windows Mobile based device, the Prada II.
Hopefully if they keep going we'll get an LG forum up and running soon!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
A forum starts with one person who is enthusiastic about their phone. How do you think this forum got started? Twenty thousand people all got together and decided to make a forum that grew into 2 million ? No it started with I'm sure, one enterprising knowledgeable person and a garage server.
Short version ? Servers are cheap, bandwidth comes from donations, if you think that there are so many interested people, then have at it. I don't think that trying to ( bully ? ) your way into an avowed HTC forum is the way. Others have done it themselves.
http://www.lg-vu.com/
http://www.mygreatphone.com/forum/lg-forum/
And many more for LG phones.Just look for them. It is the enthusiasm of the people that make a great forum, not hijacking an already great forum for your own personal use

Those forms are not as well populated as the Chinese LG forum (www.52lg.com). Main disadvantage of it is that the released roms are all in Chinese.

Ok...With all that said...who wants to put together an LG PPC forum?

a few suggestions about adding non-htc WM devices support

*edit: as many people suggested in the posts. a new single forum for other manufacturers with 1 single subforum per maker might be a better idea than whats suggested in this post**
the mods have explained several times why they are not willing to support other non-HTC devices for various reasons over here so im not gonna ask that. i will however ask that the admins to consider spinning off another site to do that.
there are some other sites that try to do that but they ALL fail miserably because they dont have the ridiculously high number of smart users registered to them. to solve this major problem, i propose that the users data base of xda-dev gets synchronized with the newly created site.
the new site may look something like
- windows mobile support and development forums
- htc built devices like palm,xperia...etc
- 1 subforum per device (more if its a very popular devices like xperia X2,omnia, toshiba tg10...etc)

I wasn't aware of the reasoning for no non-HTC device forums. You have a link?
Personally I think we should have subforums for the popular non-HTC devices like i780, Omnia, Epix, SG01, Asus devices, etc. But who am I?

there are many http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=464635
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=463252
and the reasoning is that "jack of all trades is a jackass" or something like that

THE GRIZZ said:
mods: please drop your whack-a-mole hammers and consider this
the mods have explained several times why they are not willing to support other non-HTC devices for various reasons over here so im not gonna ask that. i will however ask that the admins to consider spinning off another site to do that.
there are some other sites that try to do that but they ALL fail miserably because they dont have the ridiculously high number of smart users registered to them. to solve this major problem, i propose that the users data base of xda-dev gets synchronized with the newly created site. all that is needed is for the user to confirm the newly created account in the new site (in case some of the users explicitly dont want to register)
the new site may look something like this
- windows mobile support and development forums
- htc built devices like palm,xperia...etc
- 1 subforum per device (more if its a very popular devices like xperia X2,omnia, toshiba tg10...etc)
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
First of all, title is misleading.
Second, it's never gonna happen (another site needs more resources, which this site is struggling with.
Third, I give you one day before this thread gets closed.
Cheers

THE GRIZZ said:
mods: please drop your whack-a-mole hammers and consider this
the mods have explained several times why they are not willing to support other non-HTC devices for various reasons over here so im not gonna ask that. i will however ask that the admins to consider spinning off another site to do that.
there are some other sites that try to do that but they ALL fail miserably because they dont have the ridiculously high number of smart users registered to them. to solve this major problem, i propose that the users data base of xda-dev gets synchronized with the newly created site. all that is needed is for the user to confirm the newly created account in the new site (in case some of the users explicitly dont want to register)
the new site may look something like this
- windows mobile support and development forums
- htc built devices like palm,xperia...etc
- 1 subforum per device (more if its a very popular devices like xperia X2,omnia, toshiba tg10...etc)
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
And add ponderous, overlarge, and un navigatable

sa2.14 said:
And add ponderous, overlarge, and un navigatable
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Click to collapse
just vote no and spare us your silly negativity. i was merely asking for them to consider it. if its a bad idea it will show from their replies and from the poll.
Third, I give you one day before this thread gets closed.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
stop suggesting them ideas. and they wont

Its so much easier to add a single "other devices" subforum (not even full section like what they are doing now for every single device device).
this way we all get the advantags of having non-htc devices without the extra work and headache that goes with creating full website page.
i like the " the users data base of xda-dev gets synchronized with the newly created site" part though

My opinion is to leave XDA as it is now
Do not add more non HTC forums!
It will just make it slower
Should be around the net good forums for other brands
When have you saw a site together between reebok and nike?
Every one has its own stores
Just my 3 cents

i had the same idea when i bought my omnia
http://winmodevelopers.co.cc
this site deals with all of the non htc devices
((although may i remind you its no way affiliated with this site it just served as inspiration))
it already has a few roms and a marketplace was opened in january, and yes were stuggling with resources but thats the way it is in the shadows lol
any non htc winmo device can be added, although smartphones will be added through poularity
also we are moving the entire site soon to a dedicted server soon courtisy of QUICKSITE and this will take time but feel free to add your nuggets of info to winmodevelopers.co.cc
also take note its a very fimiliar format to xda so u wont get lost
(disclaimers : winmodevs is not an affiliate of xda-developers.com, the onlt connection is certain members including me who frequent both sites)

I think that would be really cool! The TG01 needs to have support from the wonderful ppl @ xda!

ive already got the tg01 there and now ive just installed a chatrrom for geeks

THE GRIZZ said:
just vote no and spare us your silly negativity. i was merely asking for them to consider it. if its a bad idea it will show from their replies and from the poll.
I apologize for your dismissiveness. Only thing I would point out; is that in any enterprise, diminution of effort is really a bad thing. Take the examples of the car cos. just to name a couple. Orb3000 has it right, I've got a motorola device. Found forums that are exclusive to that. I believe that works out the best.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse

jayjay8585 said:
ive already got the tg01 there and now ive just installed a chatrrom for geeks
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Nice! Where did you get the TG01 from and for how much?
And guys, let's not be dismissive or overly negative like that please, we should try to be friendly.

jayjay8585 said:
i had the same idea when i bought my omnia
http://winmodevelopers.co.cc
this site deals with all of the non htc devices
((although may i remind you its no way affiliated with this site it just served as inspiration))
it already has a few roms and a marketplace was opened in january, and yes were stuggling with resources but thats the way it is in the shadows lol
any non htc winmo device can be added, although smartphones will be added through poularity
also we are moving the entire site soon to a dedicted server soon courtisy of QUICKSITE and this will take time but feel free to add your nuggets of info to winmodevelopers.co.cc
also take note its a very fimiliar format to xda so u wont get lost
(disclaimers : winmodevs is not an affiliate of xda-developers.com, the onlt connection is certain members including me who frequent both sites)
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
the site in your signature has more forum sections than actual posts or members. in its current status, it cant complement xda-devs in any way

orb3000 said:
When have you saw a site together between reebok and nike?
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Click to collapse
Well as I understood HTC as a company has nothing with this forum?
And I'm sure reebok and nike wouldn't make site together because each of them want to sell it's sports equipment.
But, if some sport equipment lover make site about sport equipment I'm pretty sure there would be nike and reebok and many others.
I have HTC so I selfishly don't care if there are other devices on XDA-developers.
But if I buy some other non-HTC device some day I would really love to have support for it from great site like xda-developers
cheers

Can someone please explain to me how operating a forum with the amount of members and posts is not a profitable business?

THE GRIZZ said:
the site in your signature has more forum sections than actual posts or members. in its current status, it cant complement xda-devs in any way
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Click to collapse
well firstly
Board Statistics
Our members have made a total of 272 posts
We have 341 registered members
and theres only bout 23 or 24 forums so that makes ur stateate very brash
secondly you think anything you start now will imediatly get 1.5 million members and chefs will flock and devs will batlle to host there crap on ur site, it doesnt work that way
ive worked really hard to get to the site in it urrent state and itll only get bigger
also you have to take into account everyone is eih ergreedy or impatient so if theres question asked on wimnmodevs then nobody sticks around too long because they wont answers now
so see as many little members there is that brilliant going when u rememerb the site only been opened for 6 months and xda has been going for years
but then again u sdont have to use it, thee are a few who are. but i mean if you really dont like it and if its that bad feel free to trawl around xda asking bout it when theres one there
btw this wasnt meant to sound *****y if it did i apologise im just saying if u want a new site at the drop of a hat that has this much support then it not happening im afraid site like this take time

Ok then. Whoever is willing to pay for the major bandwith and whatnot step right up and pay.

Usually I have never comment on those post ”we should get additional None HTC device listed here” but now I will give my 2 cents on this subject. THIS IS MY PERSONALY OPIONIEN I DON’T MEAN TO INSULT ANYONE!!!!:
I NEVER UNDERSTOOD WHY WE SHOULD NOT LIST NONE HTC DEVICES.
This forum has started to developt WinMo and during that time HTC were first manufucturer of such device. However this forum became so famous in last 8-10 years so that when you type anything WinMo related word in Google or any other search engine it leads you at least few times back to this forum. So with Such search engine power many old and new brilliant people come here to meet and share their knowledge. With Such knowledge base and information the searchengine crawlers are as I believe the most band wide consumer.
Now been this site so famous and this site been only on HTC devices, gives actually VERY BIG Marketing advantage to the “Company HTC” As I believe over the years HTC owns some of their popularity to this forum but DOESN’T HAS TO PAY SINGLE CENTS. I mean many other companies paying hard cash to make their names and their products popular in the search engines so that consumers can find them easily.
Furthermore we all here given so much feedback on our Dream devices or find so many mistakes on the current device models so that HTC itself can learn and align them self for future devices or even make correction on next produced patch for devices that are still in production. Again all these are for free of charge and without making expensive surveys. I assure you for HTC it is a kind of Gold mine here.
I personally believe competition amount of the manufacturer can bring only advantage to the consumer. This is for price and for quality!!!
Therefore As I believe continuing supporting only HTC devices here in XDA_DEV gives HTC big advantage on the mentioned COMPETITION and hurt as Consumer!!!
Be frank I don’t believe on those sister forums or what so ever (again I don’t wanted insult anyone’s idea it is just my opinion)
my simple mathematic is:
A forum based of people…people brings Knowledge/information…Knowledge/information brings search engines…. Search engines bring people.
From my experiences building a forum and been successful (popular) is very very Long and hard job
[FONT=&quot]Conclusion of above I would say we should Support here also none HTC devices[/FONT]

redbandana said:
Can someone please explain to me how operating a forum with the amount of members and posts is not a profitable business?
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Look arround you will obviously see that this forums attention is not making money!!! But I do fully agree with you that there is alot of opertunity to turn this site to BIG CASH...
However according the websiteoutlook (http://www.websiteoutlook.com/www.xda-developers.com) it stands not to bad there:
Net Worth $1.04 Million Daily Pageview 474342 Daily Ads Revenue $1425.48

New Forums on XDA?

Hey Everyone,
As mentioned in my earlier post (please read if you have not yet already), we are considering adding non-HTC forums to the site, and are curious to hear which ones should be first. We're considering devices such as the Motorola Droid/CLIQ, plus the Samsung Omnia II and/or Acer neoTouch. What are your thoughts? We're listening!
P.S. The below excerpt is taken from my first post, and should help answer some questions.
svetius; said:
Finally-- and hopefully this doesn't cause a mass uproar-- we are considering the idea of selectively adding non-HTC device forums (focused on Windows Mobile and Android devices). Every day we get requests from users for this, and there's really no good reason why we cannot oblige them. Already the discussion is happening in the general forums. That said, we will only add new forums if: 1. We are confident added traffic won't cause site speed to suffer; 2. We can recruit quality moderators; and 3. The content and discussion is of high quality. The only way to know these things for sure is to try it out. So, within the next 14 days we are going to add two or three non-HTC forums. The delay is to ensure the site continues to operate at a reasonable speed and so we can figure out where to put the new forums (the forum homepage is already absurdly long and cluttered). We are open to suggestions as to deserving devices for our first non-HTC forums, so give us your ideas in this thread.
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MOD EDIT - The following devices are due to be added Thursday morning (CET time):
Acer neoTouch F1 S200
Acer Liquid A1 S100
Samsung Omnia II
Toshiba TG01
There may be a slight delay in adding these so no more request for the above devices

HP iPAQ HX4700
HP iPAQ HX4700, even though it is a HTC made device, would love to have a forum for it, willing to moderate as i have plenty of spare time
Much Thanks
Badwolve1
PS, YES!!! Second Post on both threads

Long overdue!
At last !
This is a very nice forum, resourceful , frequented by the "developers" yet user/noob friendly.
People like me were / are dismayed when requests-questions for non HTC devices are placed in the hacking forum where you just cannot keep track of the threads.
More and more WM/android based devices are launched now and we should have a separate forum for them.
Maybe we can first demand a few requests for a particular device before starting a dedicated forum so that it would not fizzle out in the long run and the whole site becomes cluttered unneccessarily.

From my experience, the most requested one is: Omnia

I think the droid should make the first entry, its really popular. But thats just my opinion.

hell,whose idea was this...??
you are breaking our firs tenant which says "made by a firm called HTC"
we stood for the idea for a long time and prevented such forums to be crated and now comes some "user experience admin" who works for the "unhappy samsung motorola crowd" selling some controversial ideas
come on people,don't be ridiculous...
GREAT,just great....you could also say hello to iPhone and crappy nokias....which we fought for a long time.......great job traitor

Yes, OMNIA II and why not iPhone?

An i780 forum won't be bad too. This is the best site for i780 even if it's not (yet) officialy supported. There are several roms for it on xda and there's also an android porting for this device.
Maybe a brand forum will be great too. For example a samsung or acer or anythig else forum with some subforums like rom developemente, q&a and general discussions.

ajhvdb said:
Yes, OMNIA II and why not iPhone?
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Omnia 2 is winmo, this forum is for WINMO + ANDROID ONLY!!! iPhone can go somewhere else for the people who like it
I still want one for my HTC MADE IPAQ, its in the WIKI under HTC Roadster

but hey this is..or at least was htc forum and not winmo and android forum...so...if we are expanding towards samsung,motorola and some others,why don't we go for apple too
think about it
i mean i'm not supporting any of that but....higher force wants to try it out,so if we are opening our gates for non htcs....apple is also nonhtc...so what's the difference

Toshiba TG01
Acer S200
Omnia 1 and 2
If Xda is considering to open new foruns, lets open for new top mobiles that are/were best sellers

Thanks for the feedback thus far, it's helpful. We're indeed going to stick with just Windows Mobile and Android.

But on the other side allowing non htc mobile will mean let in any mobile. So admins, how will you then manage all this?What about server load and all the technical things it will bring along?And also will there be enough staff to monitor the behaviour of each and everyone? This is no simple question. Right now I see xda dev as a small group providing quality support and devs, what will it be then? Many bloggers refer to xda dev website, it is a turning point on the htc platform. Wont allowing other brands in kill this image?

yash08 said:
But on the other side allowing non htc mobile will mean let in any mobile. So admins, how will you then manage all this?What about server load and all the technical things it will bring along?And also will there be enough staff to monitor the behaviour of each and everyone? This is no simple question. Right now I see xda dev as a small group providing quality support and devs, what will it be then? Many bloggers refer to xda dev website, it is a turning point on the htc platform. Wont allowing other brands in kill this image?
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i talked to svetius via pm and this was almost the same thing i said to him
and for the
svetius said:
Thanks for the feedback thus far, it's helpful. We're indeed going to stick with just Windows Mobile and Android.
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what about "brew" platform which comes with new htc smart

maybe the "xda-developers.com" should be changed to "apple-haters.com" because as i see everything except apple is welcome
just to make it clear....i'm absolutely not voting for apple (although i love macs),i'm just giving you something to think about...pointing finger towards the paradox so everybody could see it

yash08 said:
But on the other side allowing non htc mobile will mean let in any mobile. So admins, how will you then manage all this?What about server load and all the technical things it will bring along?And also will there be enough staff to monitor the behaviour of each and everyone? This is no simple question. Right now I see xda dev as a small group providing quality support and devs, what will it be then? Many bloggers refer to xda dev website, it is a turning point on the htc platform. Wont allowing other brands in kill this image?
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As mentioned in my first post earlier today...
We will only add new forums if: 1. We are confident added traffic won't cause site speed to suffer; 2. We can recruit quality moderators; and 3. The content and discussion is of high quality. The only way to know these things for sure is to try it out. So, within the next 14 days we are going to add two or three non-HTC forums. The delay is to ensure the site continues to operate at a reasonable speed and so we can figure out where to put the new forums (the forum homepage is already absurdly long and cluttered). We are open to suggestions as to deserving devices for our first non-HTC forums, so give us your ideas in this thread.
I hope this helps.

I say expand to the iPhone field....wouldn't hurt to add it to the forums....we can say we hate it and that it suxs...whatever. XDA harbors people that want to push their phone's limits. I've been a follower of XDA for a while now, even when I had my iPhone, because the amount of talent in these forums are awesome. I say open the flood gates and bring in iPhone OS to the table. Droid and the new Dell Android would be great as well. My 2 cents

I kind of want to see a forum for the HTC Smart, running that Brew OS and a forum for the Android SE Xperia X10 and WM X2.

farukb said:
but hey this is..or at least was htc forum and not winmo and android forum
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Official or not, this site has ALWAYS been a winmo forum. Given that HTC's devices mostly ran winmo, that's pretty much unavoidable - unless you think that all discussion/development of software that runs on non-HTC winmo devices should be banned, anyway. And the same goes for Android, now that it comprises ~half of HTC's product lineup - unless you think that half of HTC's current phones should be banned from an 'HTC forum'.

YES to new forums
I've been following XDA-Devs for quite some time now (over a year and a half, to be exact) ever since I gleefully bought my AT&T Tilt, and then was frustrated with it within a week. Prior to that, I have owned & happily modded several PPC's. I lurked on these forums for over a year before joining and asking anything. Almost every question I had was answered by patiently searching. So Junior Member, yes. Noob...not quite.
That being said, I am very heavily leaning towards replacing my battle-scarred Tilt with a Samsung Omnia II instead of a TP2 variant. Lots of pros, very few cons, at least for the things I use my device for the most. One of the BIGGEST cons, however, would be that I would lose the guidance, support, knowledge and hard-earned wisdom of the people that post here by straying from HTC.
And so I hesitate.
I've likely read posts into the multiple thousands here, and despite the device or app, or even OS under discussion, one theme runs through it all:
We love messing with our phones.
Better, stronger, faster, smarter, louder, brighter, more fun ..... ad infinitum.
So, for the sake of that common goal, I say add new forums. Break them down by manufacturer. Even iPhones. All those people that bought one, only to discover the limitations of their expensive "cool" new phone? Let's help those poor saps too, ok?
YES to new forums!!