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DEFINITIVE ROUNDUP of 3 st. BT headphones: Nokia HS-12W,Plantronics Pulsar 590 & 260
Unfortunately, except for Mobileburn’s excellent Bluetooth Stereo Headset Roundup , PDAMania’s two related articles (English summary here), Fire Dragan‘s roundup and some other HowardForums and XDA-Developers threads (see for example this and this), there are no real one-to-one feature & compatibility & quality comparisons between current Bluetooth stereo headphones.
This is why I’ve set out and made some SERIOUS tests with three current and popular Bluetooth stereo headphones: the Nokia HS-12W, the Plantronics Pulsar 590A/590E and the brand new Plantronics Pulsar 260.
Unlike with most other tests ever published on Bluetooth headphones, I’ve tested all these three headphones with a heap of (mostly my) A2DP-enabled gadgets to get a clear picture of their compatibility and sound quality with each of them.
Why compliance testing is useful, in the first place? As you may know, A2DP (that is, stereo Bluetooth sound transfer) is pretty new. As with several other areas of Bluetooth, A2DP is still suffering from its infant illnesses; particularly, major compatibility problems. This means stereo headphones that otherwise sound excellent with one (set of) sound source(s) won’t necessarily produce the same results with other devices.
The major incompatibility issues also result in a lot of contradicting reviews and user opinions about current A2DP-capable headphones. For example, when a user "only" has A2DP sound sources of one set but not of alternative ones, he/she may find a given, otherwise not fully compatible set of headsets just great or plain awful and useless - all depending on what sound sources he/she has tested the headphones against. For example, if a particular user uses his or her stereo headphones with the Widcomm Bluetooth stack (see below), he or she most probably will never run into compatibility problems and may even consider the given model excellent. On the other hand, if he or she happens to test against the Microsoft Bluetooth stack and he/she happens to have an incompatible headset, he or she will probably find the headphones plain useless. This, unfortunately, makes most reviews & user opinions pretty one-sided or even plain unreliable.
This is why thorough, multi audio-source tests are extremely important when you test Bluetooth A2DP headphones.
The most important area of these incompatibility issues is the vast quality difference between the currently two major Windows Mobile Bluetooth (BT for short) implementations (so-called “stacks” ) with some (not all!) stereo headphones models. For example, neither of the two currently available Plantronics headphones are able to play back anything coming from the Microsoft Bluetooth stack at a decent quality, unlike (some) other brands / models (for example, Nokia headphones) – if they are at all able to connect to these devices (for example, one - the 260 - of these models couldn’t even connect to two of my test Windows Mobile PDA’s). Additional compatibility issues like the built-in display not being compatible with, say, the caller name or the song title are just an icing on the cake.
This is why I’ve made sure I’ve tested these headphones with all the A2DP-enabled sound sources I could get hold of (there are MANY of them!): many Microsoft and Widcomm-based Windows Mobile devices and several non- Windows Mobile-based ones like Nokia's new, cheap (!) and pretty cool model 5300 XpressMusicor the even cooler and even flashier Samsung YP-T9J, in addition to major Palm OS-based models like the Tungsten 3 running Softick Audio Gateway, the great A2DP client for the Palm. That is, this test is not only written for Windows Mobile, but also for Palm users - or, for people just wanting to get a cheap (!) A2DP-capable music solution, let it be either based on the Nokia 5300 or on the Samsung YP-T9J, both being excellent choices for the price. As long as you use them with a fully compatible A2DP headphones, that is - as can clearly be seen, the Nokia 5300, A2DP-wise, is NOT really compatible with the two Pulsar headphones.
Many will ask after reading the previous paragraph “Hey! Did you try to fine-tune your Microsoft BT stack parameters to make the Plantronics headphones sound better?” My answer is YES, I’ve tried very hard to enhance sound quality and have published many articles on this question (see for example this one) and stay assured: in no way can you get flawless music playback quality on incompatible (for example, the two tested Plantronics-manufactured in this test and a lot of other models from other manufacturers) headphones.
In addition to A2DP (stereo sound transfer), I’ve tested them in “standard” phone headset mode too (that is, using them to conduct a phone call with a / the connected BT-enabled phone). I’ve paid special attention to checking whether the music playback is correctly resumed after terminating the call; whether the Call button is working as it’s supposed to; whether the volume and quality of the speech of both speakers’ are sufficient at the other side of the line and so on. I’ve also thoroughly tested the screen display compatibility of the Nokia headset, as far as its advanced features (caller name, music title, new SMS messages / unanswered calls / clock display). As can clearly be seen, these features are only compatible with genuine Nokia A2DP phones, NOT with Windows Mobile-based ones – or, for that matter, Palm OS / third-party sources like the highly recommended Samsung player. This, unfortunately, also applies to many? most? other Bluetooth stereo headphones with a built-in display – currently, I don’t know of any that really would work with all kinds of clients (most importantly, Widcomm- and Microsoft BT stack-based WM phones).
Note that this review isn’t a full review of / introduction to the three stereo headphones. The reader is kindly referred to the reviews in the “Notable reviews” row of the Comparison & Feature Chart. It’s there that you will, for example, see some nice shots of these devices. I just wanted to spend my meager time on some real-world, insightful, objective compatibility tests instead of wasting many hours on taking shots you can also see in other, already-existing reviews. Sorry for that, guys and gals - I think, given the lack of time I have, the information I provide here is MUCH more useful and, what is even more important, unique and genuine than just some flashy shots I would have wasted a lot of time on taking and, then, post processing.
The comparison chart
As with most of my other roundups, the vast majority of the information is in the Comparison & Feature Chart (CLICK THE LINK!). Make sure you open it in another browser window / tab, preferably maximized.
Explanation for the chart
Compliance report group: it’s here that I’ve listed the compliance reports of all the reviewed headphones.
Microsoft Bluetooth Stack-based Windows Mobile devices subgroup: in here, I’ve listed the MS BT stack-compliance of the three headphones, tested on many (!) Windows Mobile versions, testing both the older AKU2 (the first introduction of A2DP to – some – Windows Mobile models) and the newer, as enhanced-advertised AKU3+ (also delivered with Windows Mobile 6). (Please see this article for more information on what AKU's mean when not sure.)
As can clearly be seen, the Nokia headphones had absolutely no problem with either the A2DP (stereo sound transfer) or the headset (abbreviated as HS) modes. Not so with the two Plantronics headphones. The Pulsar 590, while still compatible with the stack, delivered pretty bad sound quality without any hope for quality hacking. The newer (!) Pulsar 260 was even worse in this respect: it not only sounds even worse than the Pulsar 590, but also fully incompatible (it won’t even connect) with two (Wizard, Trinity) of the test Windows Mobile PDA’s. Strange this model is newer than the venerable 590A/E and is even more incompatible with the, now, leading Windows Mobile Bluetooth stack.
Note that you will need to thoroughly read the HTC Trinity (or, for that matter, any AKU3) -related remarks for more information on making the sound stereo and high-quality. Fortunately, it’s just a simple registry key deletion (or, alternatively, running a free (!) tweaker app).
Note that, in the headset (NOT in the stereo A2DP) mode, I’ve also tested whether the microphone (see for example “mike / non-stereo sound transfer only” with the N560) of the headphones can be used to input sound to any sound recorder or Voice over IP (VoIP) application like Pocket Skype or Microsoft Portrait. This may prove very useful in cases; please see this article for more information on this question.
Widcomm/Broadcom Bluetooth Stack-based Windows Mobile devices subgroup: the second (and, unfortunately, shrinking) group of Windows Mobile-based devices use the Widcomm/Broadcom Bluetooth stack, which is, in general, far superior to the Microsoft one. Unfortunately, currently, very few current (WM5+) Windows Mobile-based devices use this stack (and not that of Microsoft): for example, all the HP iPAQ’s (including the WM5 upgrades of the originally WM2003SE-based hx series), the Fujitsu-Siemens phones (but, unfortunately, not the C/N-series non-phone models) and Acers.
Note that several, originally, MS BT stack-based Windows Mobile devices can be upgraded to use the Widcomm BT stack. With standalone (non-phone) models like the WM5-upgraded Dell Axim x50’s or the x51’s, this works just great. Note that I’ve linked in the available Widcomm upgrades from the chart. Of them, you will want to special attention to this article if you have a current HTC Windows Mobile phone – there are several HTC models already supported (to some degree – unfortunately, the headset mode doesn’t work with most of them) by the Widcomm BT stack.
Redial and voice dialing group: not only "old-fashioned", "dumb" mono Bluetooth headsets are capable of initiating calls from the headset (you don't need to fish out your phone from your pocket / bag but can initiate the call right from your headset), but also most stereo headphones. In here, I've tested how these headphones fare, compatibility-wise. I've tested: the "dumber" "redial the last number you've called" functionality (which can be activated by a double short press of the call button / button on the wire) and the much more advanced (it lets you call anyone) voice dialing feature. The latter works with both Microsoft's well-known, highly recommended Voice Command and Cyberion's well-known (it comes with most HTC Windows Mobile phones built-in, while Voice Command only comes with very few; for example, the HTC Trinity Dopod ROMs) Cyberon Voice Speed Dial app (see this thread for more information on the differences of the two apps and, in addition, Cyberon’s Voice Commander (not to be mistaken for Microsoft's Voice Command!) if interested).
Battery, recharging group: with stereo headsets, it's also very important to have as good battery life as possible. An example: while at work and I'm, say, working on a report or an article, I, most of the time, just put on my Pulsar 590A headsets and stream some music into it so that I can really concentrate on what I'm writing and not let ambient noise / calls distract my attention. I sometimes do this for 6-8-10 hours, during which I prefer NOT having to put my Bluetooth headphones on the charger. With my 590A (assuming I put it on the charger every night), which has a real, practical battery life of at least 11 hours (with even an outdoors volume level), I've never run into problems like "Hey, no batteries left; now, I really must put the headphones on charger". Unfortunately, other headphones not necessarily fare this good; for example, neither of the two ear buds-based models are able to play music for more than 7-8 hours.
Note that I've made these tests with repeating music and street-level volume. Fortunately, all the three headsets are capable of playing back music even at this comparatively high volume without noticeable distortion as long as you don't do any kind of bass boosting, which could very easily result in distortion. This may also mean you will have slightly (but not much! Think of 5-10% at most!) better battery life indoors, where you will want to use lower volume levels.
I've also benchmarked the time it takes the factory-supplied charger to recharge the headphones.
Note that, with the battery life and recharge time data, I've also given the official specs of the manufacturer, along with stating whether the official battery life / recharge time is over- or underestimated by the manufacturer (the first is definitely a positive thing with recharging and the second with playback). As can clearly be seen, Nokia has generally given worse specs than their headphones, while Plantronics did the opposite. (See for example the recharge time benchmarks!) A thumbs-up to Nokia and a thumbs-down to Plantronics.
Also note that I've made sure the batteries of the tested devices had already been through several charge / discharge cycles, meaning they have delivered their maximal capacity (as you may know, Li-Ion batteries require some – not many: in general, 2-3 – recharge cycles to achieve their maximal capacity (see this for more info on Li-Ion charging if interested).
Separate A2DP source / HS support group: in here, I've elaborated on whether the given headphones are capable of connecting to separate A2DP (music) and a headset (phone) sources at the same time. This will be of little relevance to anyone wanting to play back music off a capable Windows Mobile phone.
A side remark: By capable phones you will probably want to stick to as an A2DP player, I mean for example the HTC Wizard, which has unbeatable battery life because it decreases by 7-8% an hour (!) while playing back WMA's and MP3's by the built-in Windows Media Player and transferring the music via the "hacked" Widcomm BT stack to an A2DP headset and NOT overclocked (that is, run at the default 195 MHz). Note that the battery life would be even more stellar with a multimedia player consuming even less CPU cycles; most importantly, 40th Floor's iPlay or TCPMP / CorePlayer; read this all-in-one article for more info. Note that if you overclock the Wizard to, say, 240 MHz, the battery life will, while continuously playing back music via A2DP, definitely decrease; it still remains pretty good (11-12% decrease an hour).
Most non-TI OMAP-based phones or standalone PDA's (the Wizard is a TI-based phone, as with, say, the GPS-enabled HTC Artemis), on the other hand, will have much worse battery life - think of 20-25-30% charge drop an hour with most Samsung- and Intel XScale-based phones (assuming you use the factory battery and not a thick, heavy extended one), which is even made worse on some models with an utterly buggy A2DP implementation; for example, the HTC Trinity / P3600 (see this). Compare all this to the much more stellar results of, say, the Nokia 5300 (I've listened to music for some two hours on it via A2DP and the phone didn't show any significant battery level drop) or, even better, the, in my opinion, absolutely the best standalone multimedia player of today, Samsung YP-T9J. The latter has some 23-24 hours of music playback via wired headphones and some 15 hours via A2DP. Excellent battery life, I'd say - even better than that of the non-overclocked HTC Wizard, let alone most other current Windows Mobile-based devices.
Unfortunately, the Nokia headphones are NOT capable of multiple connections. That is, you can only conduct calls via your headphones on the same device you're also listening to music on - and not on another device. This, unfortunately, also means that, should you device to go for the Samsung YP-T9J (I most definitely will as I'm really-really fed up with the Microsoft Bluetooth stack incompatibility of my expensive Pulsar 590A - and with the bugs and inherent problems of the Widcomm BT stack hack for the Wizard, my, because of the stellar battery life, main A2DP source. Do check it out if you see it some time, it's definitely worth giving it a try!), you won’t be able to listen to some music while also being connected to your (other) phone.
Volume group: with stereo headphones and Bluetooth headsets, it's also very important to know whether it's able to produce a volume that is significantly over the ambient noise level of even the loudest street. That is, you'll want to consult the results here before you buy the headset and find out it's just plain useless because, say, of the very low maximal volume.
As can clearly be seen, both the Nokia and the 590A excel at this area; the Pulsar 260 really doesn't.
I've also examined the granularity of volume setting. The Nokia has 10 volume levels and is, therefore, a bit less sophisticated than the two Pulsars with 16 volume levels each. However, in practice, I haven't really run into situations when the less volume levels would have caused any problems with the Nokia, particularly if you also consider the fact that, with the Microsoft Bluetooth stack, the system volume (the volume you set on the Windows Mobile device) has a direct impact on the Bluetooth volume too. (This isn't the case with Widcomm.)
Feedback, responsiveness group: some headphones (particularly the Pulsar 260) produce very annoying beeps when you press any hardware button. This is why I've added an Audible feedback: button sounds row in here, where I've also listed how the tested headphones behave in this respect. As can be seen, both the Pulsar 590 and the Nokia are far better in this regard.
Visible feedback: The Pulsar models are also well known for their strong, blinking LED (Light Emitting Diode), which, unlike with some other manufacturer's headphones, just can't be disabled. This may be a stumbling block for many - for example, the blinking LED on the 590A/E will make it almost impossible to be used at evening / in the night with all the lights shut down.
Finally, the Responsiveness: data rate change back to HQ mode after it switching to low-quality mode and, then, back. This only applies to better, fallback-capable BT stacks (in the test, I’ve used the Widcomm one); the MS BT stack doesn’t support “falling back” to lower bit speeds to extend range (which means the range with the MS BT stack is much more limited than with the Widcomm one). test tests how quickly the tested headphones switch back to the fastest (in general, 320 kbps) Bluetooth data rate (meaning the best sound quality) after a "fallback" to a slowest, still available (around 180 kbps) speed. This parameter can also be important if you, say, often walk around / leave your current room, leaving back your sound source, AND you’re using an advanced, fallback-capable A2DP sound source like a Widcomm-based Windows Mobile device. The less the recovery time (as is the case with the Pulsar 590 and the Nokia but not with the Pulsar 260), the better.
Note that it's only the Widcomm stack that uses speed fallback to greatly extend the operation range; the Microsoft BT stack is far-far worse in this respect (too). This is why, if you move a lot without your sound source (as is the case with MS BT stack-based Windows Mobile device), you will encounter skips even when you are only 15-25 feet away from your PDA in the same room, let alone in another room (where the sound transfer will almost surely completely stop). With the Widcomm BT stack, you won't encounter any skips (in general), because it will just "fall back" to a lower transfer speed to extend the range (and avoid skips).
As can clearly be seen, the Nokia and the 590A switch back to the highest transfer speed (and, conversely, best audio quality) very fast, unlike the 260. In addition, I've found a small annoyance with both Plantronics models (but not the Nokia): if you play with volume changing too much (you, for example, turn the volume up entirely from being next to silent), the BT transfer speed will be reduced (meaning lower sound quality). Of course, this will, thanks to the gradual transfer speed (and, conversely, quality) increase, only temporarily have a bad effect on the sound quality. Again, don't forget you will only run into the consequences caused by the bug with the Widcomm BT stack - the much "dumber" Microsoft BT stack doesn't support speed fallback.
Finally, the Misc group lists a lot of unrelated information; for example, physical dimensions, the existence of a dongle shipped with the unit, the presence of a built-in FM radio, the charger type (in which, the 260 is the best), how good the supplied / online manual is (one of the stumbling blocks of the 260) and the reviews available on all these three headphones. This is closed by the Cons and Pros sections, which just recap the major problems and advantages of each model.
Verdict
If you have the Microsoft Bluetooth stack and won’t / can’t “hack” the Widcomm BT stack on your Windows Mobile device, then, forget the two Plantronics headphones at once. For you MS BT stack users, the Nokia headphones, which are of the few ones that are compatible with the stack, are pretty good when it comes to sound quality, even with pre-AKU3 devices. It’s, however, a bit overpriced and starts to become outdated – after all, it’s a one-year-old product. Also, it lacks some high-end features like support for two concurrent devices. As I'm not really sure you won't want to get for example the new Samsung YP-T9J to get rid of the low battery life of most Windows Mobile devices in A2DP mode, I'm not really convinced you should go for the Nokia either: should you ever get another A2DP sound source without a built-in phone, you won't be able to use it together with your cell phone while listening to music.
This also means none of these headphones are future-proof. As BT stereo headphones are still pretty expensive, I bet you won't be very happy when you purchase your next gadget, let it be a MS-based (without any chance to "hack" the Widcomm BT stack on it) Windows Mobile phone (which the Plantronics headphones have severe incompatibility problems with) or a non-phone-enabled A2DP music player like the Samsung YP-T9J (which the Nokia won't support in multiple device mode).
This means you should only get ANY of the tested headphones for your existing setup if you're absolutely sure you won't switch A2DP source platforms in the near future (you won't get another MS BT stack-based phone if you go for any Plantronics headsets OR won't get a separate, non-phone-enabled A2DP source, which you'd still like to use concurrently with your phone, if you go for the Nokia), which could easily render your expensive headphones useless.
Of course, I'll report on newer headsets and their compatibility issues in the future too; I really hope I'll be able to find some without major compatibility issues and with a far higher level of future proof than the three reviewed headphones. Keep reading my articles!
Recommended links
Highly recommended HTC Trinity-related thread (also see this for the Trinity + HBH-DS970 combo)
Wizard + A2DP
Jack Cook’s excellent BlueAnt X5 review (brand new & highly recommended!)
Fire Dragan’s roundup
Official BT Profile Overview - recommended if you'd like to know what Hands-Free Profile (HFP) or Headset Profile (HSP) are.
Mobileburn’s Bluetooth Stereo Headset Roundup (also linked from here)
Which Bluetooth Stereo Headset are you using?
Logitech Releases Next Generation Bluetooth Stereo Headphones (over a year old! If you’d like to know what Logitech will release in the near future, check out for example this). There is also Logitech FreePulse Bluetooth Headphones Review by The Register.
Bluetake's i-PHONO mini Bluetooth Headphone Kit Reviewed (over a year old!)
Lubix NC1 Review (new & recommended!);
Ubixon's Lubix Bluetooth stereo headsets: the magnets make the magic (a VERY short overview)
Tech Digest’s brand new Motorola S805 review
Motorola S9 Bluetooth Headphones - news only
Southwing SA505 Headphones
Etymotic ety.8 Bluetooth earphones reviews from both CNET and iLounge
Motorola HT820 review by IGN
Review: Koss Cobalt Bluetooth headphones are lousy, wireless
A Comprehensive list of A2DP Phones & Headsets
Sony DRBT10CX-stereo Bluetooth earbuds - another, highly recommended, new thread on the new Sony earbuds. It also compares these earbuds to the HBH-DS970 (related thread here), which has decidedly lower battery life (as opposed to the whopping 11 hours of the DRBT10CX) but is also less bulkier. As far as Sony’s future BT models are concerned, the DR-BT21G and the DR-BT50 need to be mentioned.
VERY short Pulsar 590 review.[/b][/b]
UPDATE (03/09/2007):
while the previous beta(s) didn't work with the Nokia HS-12W (see this user report), JETware Hands-free Extension for Windows Mobile phones may receive real Nokia HS-12W support in the future, meaning you'll also see the caller name on your Bluetooth headphones, not only the number. Other users have reported success with Sony's HBH-DS970 (see for example this thread for more info).
You can not upgrade the firmware (to, for example, fix the Microsoft BT stack-related, major issues of the Plantronics headphones or to add multiple source support to the Nokia) on any of the reviewed headphones. This is diametrically opposed to, say, Motorola's approach, who fixed the skipping problem present in early HT820 revisions with a firmware upgrade flashable to these models (see this thread for more info if interested).
Another HS-12W thread here. I also highly recommend the thread Sony Ericsson HSD-DS970 vs Nokia HS-12W.
wow good stuff! i was planning to buy a bluetooth headset and this really taught be a lot!!! i'll certainly be coming back to you for more information!!!
nunuxx said:
wow good stuff! i was planning to buy a bluetooth headset and this really taught be a lot!!! i'll certainly be coming back to you for more information!!!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Thanks, you're welcome
Great! Just on time, I was planning getting a Stereo BT headset for my Universal and Hermes.
Plantronics Pulsar 260
I received mine in yesterday and I can confirm they work with my Dash/Excalibur which has been upgraded the WM6 - beta/hack. Although about every 20 seconds or so there was audio dropout for a split second.
I don't know if that was due to the WM6 beta or the Pulsar. However, since this does NOT happen with my old Sony/Ericsson DS970 I'll error that it's Plantronics issue.
It sounds like you got a pre-production model because you didn't mention the extremely long cord which connects from the dongle to the headphones. Mine is about 43"!
What was the length of yours?
It would be helpful to know how long the cords on the other headsets are if applicable since this is the main reason I'm returning the Pulsar 260.
-John
Several new Plantronics Pulsar 260 reviews published
It was over a month ago that I’ve published an all-in-one comparative review & compatibility report (available HERE) on three A2DP (stereo Bluetooth) headphones. Now that the headphones have also arrived at the U.S. too (at last, something we Europeans got way earlier than you Americans ), a lot of reviews have surfaced on well-known headset / headphones manufacturer Plantronics’ new Pulsar 260 also featured in the above-linked roundup.
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Unfortunately, as has been emphasized numerous times by me and a LOT of other mostly XDA-Developers and HowardForums users (I really recommend following the BT & A2DP-related posts in these two forums, there are some very knowledgeable people there; for example, Fire Dragan in the latter forum), the current state and implementations of the A2DP standard are far from perfect and interoperability is REALLY reduced. This means on paper A2DP-capable headphones are not guaranteed to co-work with any A2DP sources. An example of this, in addition to the major sound quality problems with the MS BT stack, is the constant reconnection problems (resulting in annoying beeps and pauses) with the Nokia 5300. And, of course, the sound quality issues...
This also means you WILL want to read my review & comparison. Believe me, no matter what some people state, these headphones deliver REALLY BAD sound quality when used together with the Microsoft Bluetooth stack coming with almost all current Windows Mobile-based devices (except for the Acer models, the HP iPAQ’s (including the hw6915) and the Fujitsu-Siemens T830). I’ve also elaborated on these issues in this PPCT thread – it’s REALLY worth giving a read to see why I state they are incompatible with the stack. You’ve been warned – don’t come telling me you’ve shelled out $50…$100 for a really bad-sounding pair of BT headphones because I haven’t warned you
OK, the new reviews, packed with photos:
The Gadgeteer review
GearDiary review
Digital Trends review
CTIA 2007 Blog post; related PPCT thread
BTW, upon the European release of the 260, Plantronics still didn’t have the promised and, in the leaflet accompanying the headphones, referenced online documentation. Now it’s out and available here.
Thank you for the great reviews!
Any success on getting the widcomm stack working on the trinity. I have tried the hermes version and am able to get it going without the memory errors but it does not seem to actually invoke the bluetooth radio(even though the driver loads)--no sensing of / or discovery by other bluetooth devices.
Just bought the Moto S9 stereo bluetooth headset
After trying out the headset in the store to make sure it would fit around my large noggin, I splurged on the Motorola S9 bluetooth stereo headset. I'm using it with my 8525 (Hermes).
The headset works just like the manual says, no surprises. It paired instantly, and stays paired. I use another bluetooth accessory (my car) more often, and the phone switches between the two without any issues.
The sound is very good; better than the supplied wired headphones, and significantly louder. The callers on the other end say it sounds just fine. The microphone is actually in the right earpiece, so during calls, the sound only comes out the left earpiece. There's no microphone hole on the headset, so it must use the ear canal for acquiring the voice.
I can skip tracks and pause playback in WMP from the headset, and I can answer/end calls. Supposedly you can mute a caller, do voice dialing, etc. but I don't really use those features, so I haven't tested them
I called my home answering machine and left a message to hear what I sounded like. Whether I was talking quietly or loudly the volume stayed consistent. The microphone must offer some level of compression to make this happen. That's convenient because these things are almost invisible when I wear them (kinda long hair) and talking softly keeps me from attracting too much attention.
All in all, a very good purchase even though I already have 2 other bluetooth (mono) headsets. (Which will probably never be used again.)
Now that WM6 is officially coming for Dopod D810 (asian Trinity) http://www.dopodasia.com/global/SEA/news/20070503_WM6_upgrade.html
Does anyone know if there is any change of / improvment to the MS BT stack for WM6?
I have VERY good new for most WM6 users: make sure you read http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?p=1296053
hi guys, my first post
i have recently purchased plantronics pulsar 260, so im writing my thoughts down:
1. optic:
- earphones: looking like some random crappy earphones
- receiver: is ok
2. clips:
- microphone clip: is ok, holding strong
- receiver clip: well, now i know why plantronics gave us such long cable, i didnt found any suitable place on my shirt to fix it into, clip is uselles, so it went to ... my pocket
3. setup:
- pairing: no probs
- led: annoying, it shows battery status only while starting the device
- keys: beeping on every key-press - annoying while listening to music
4: sound quality
- htc hermes: with different roms, diferrent a2dp settings (jointstereo, bitpool, etc) - was just torrible
- se w950: same as hermes easy to pair with poor quality (w950 dosnt allow any advanced settings)
in both cases, sound was bad, similar to a bad tuned radio station,
there is a huge gap between w950 wired (hpm-82) and pulsar 260 earphones, in favor of w950
well im dunno, if those earphones are fake or are supposed to be this way ..
for now, im not going to buy anything more from plantronics
ps. support was really nice to speak with, but in the end could not help at all, anyway my + to them
ps2. sry for my bad eng
My Plantronics Pulsar P590 works great with all my A2DP enabled WM devices including my beloved Trinity, not sure why you don't recommend them with MS Stack, they do work great for me under both usages (music or calls)!!!
I'm really pleased with it's performance!!!
Happy owner of a Plantronic Pulsar 260 since a week, I confirm that it works perfectly with my trinity. (ROM AXEL 2.8.0.1 - HTCustom Join stereo 58)
Sound is load and clear, no disconnection.
Very good autonomy. (more than 8hours playing music)
I'am very satisfied with this headset, very good buy.
I notice there is alot of disussion over BT headsets, and several threads adressing range/crackling/'static' noise .
However, none of them clearly identifies several BT headsets which won't have problems with using range with Universal - as our pet gadget definetly have it's own issues performing considerably worster then other BT phones / PDA-s with headsets.
So I would kindly ask you all to identify me few models of BT headsets you are using and which can normally communicate with universal in most common situations without crackling/static/disconnections.
I have used old Nokia HDW-3 - and it performed excellent, I could walk all arround the room, turn my head in any direction, stand in between phone and headset (even with universal) and it would sound flawlesly. However, I got the new headset X-sport - very tiny (less then 8g) and fitting me comfortably, but alas, when I charged it and tried to use it - it crackles even if my Uni is on the desk infront of me and I turn my head away.
Please advice on models I could mail order without fear of showing this flaw.
Dalm said:
I notice there is alot of disussion over BT headsets, and several threads adressing range/crackling/'static' noise .
However, none of them clearly identifies several BT headsets which won't have problems with using range with Universal - as our pet gadget definetly have it's own issues performing considerably worster then other BT phones / PDA-s with headsets.
So I would kindly ask you all to identify me few models of BT headsets you are using and which can normally communicate with universal in most common situations without crackling/static/disconnections.
I have used old Nokia HDW-3 - and it performed excellent, I could walk all arround the room, turn my head in any direction, stand in between phone and headset (even with universal) and it would sound flawlesly. However, I got the new headset X-sport - very tiny (less then 8g) and fitting me comfortably, but alas, when I charged it and tried to use it - it crackles even if my Uni is on the desk infront of me and I turn my head away.
Please advice on models I could mail order without fear of showing this flaw.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I am using Sony ericsson Stereo Bluetooth Headset HBH-DS970. The coverage and sound quality are excellent. It offers full A2DP funtionality with Windows media Player as well as pocketmusic. The hardware controls on this headset include Forward and previous track button (which really work with my universal with Darkforce Rom), volume control and an OLED display which displays the caller ID (number only). Voice dialing works perfectly. The earpiece looke like normal earphone (no buldging contraption on the ear like most bluetooth headsets.
Bottom Line:
Any radio freq. is line of sight. So if you turn your head and the two radios (Receiving & Transmitting) are not in LOS, it means that the signal needs to bounce off something else, or go through something, (in this case probably your Head ) which causes the signal to fade, hence the interference.
Laubscherc said:
Bottom Line:
Any radio freq. is line of sight. So if you turn your head and the two radios (Receiving & Transmitting) are not in LOS, it means that the signal needs to bounce off something else, or go through something, (in this case probably your Head ) which causes the signal to fade, hence the interference.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
bluetooth range is also sometimes ROM specific
I'm quite aware that line of sight provides optimal radio connectivity. But in theory as well as in my experience, good bluetooth connection should be able to cope with such an obstacle as my head providing that distance is about 50 - 70 cm.
However, I guess that most of Universal users are well aware that our devices have inferior performance to most 'regular' mobiles on the market. Is it location of the BT module or ROM - I don't know - it would be great if it's ROM as it would make it relatively fixable. I'm using QTEK latest shipped ROM 1.30.77 WWE together with R.13.00 radio ROM - but willing to change if it helps.
However, by what I red in other threads on this forum, inferior performance is more likely caused by location of BT module in the device.
Thus some headsets which have better BT transmission and reception (more radiated power and better reception) due to their construction should provide us with better BT performance). Thus the 'field test' is only good pointer which headset to buy or not to buy. For me, BT headset which can't communicate from my belt to my ear when I break line of sight by my hand swinging while I walk - is unusable - I'll much rather wear a wire
I tried my old Nokia HDW-3 and it performed great. On the other hand I tried that X-sport tiny one - it was disaster. Now I'm waiting new examplar of good old Nokia as well as Jabra BT800 - I'll report about the field tests
I've tried two options with my QTEC 9000 and using Windows Media. I bought Motoroka S9: really nice concept with the BT unit embedded in the back of the headband, and the sound quality is excellent, and switched between music and calls easily, the track forward (but not backward) control worked, buttons easy to manipulate. Several drawbacks however: it becomes uncomfortable on your ears after an hour or so due to the the design and the hard plastic used (may depend on the shape of your head) and the phone mic only works through one earpiece not in stereo (this is stated in the documentation, it was not a problem with my setup). The fatal flaw however was the BT range. It worked fine when I hold the phone behind my head, inches away from the headset BT unit, but this was impractical for extended periods of time When I put the phone in my jacket pocket or shoulder bag, the continual breakup of the signal made it unuseable. The phone signal performed better but for music this has very limited success and certainly doesn't work as a mobile device, which is sort of the point.
I then bought a Sony Ericsson HBH DS200. The range problem is resolved, music streams fine with my device in my pocket, shoulder bag or briefcase. I can walk around a room and listen to music and make calls no problem, although the music signal drops out when blocked by my body and the distance is about 2m or more. The swithching back to music after taking or making a call is a bit flaky, sometimes i need to reset the devise again to reestablish the connection, but sometimes it works OK. No caller ID on the headset, no volume control, no track back/forward, so it's a bit basic, but after the previous experience, I'm just happy it works. The supplied earbuds are good, and you can unplug them and use anything else you want with a 3.5 jack.
Hope this helps.
Jabra BT800 Jabra BT250V Plantronics A510
The Jabra BT800 (or 810, whatever it was with the LCD) would not get very loud with my Universal. It also wasn't very secure. The LCD would have been cool though...
The Jabra BT250v was very secure, could get plenty loud (most times), but had crappy reception, and worse reception when/if an SD card was inserted. When I say crappy reception, i mean bad. At arms length the headset started having static. As far as I could tell it was only I who heard it, but when I started hearing static, the person on the other side couldn't really hear me.
Plantronics A510 is the bomb!! (in a good way). I have only had it for a few days, but it is super lightweight, gets plaenty loud enough, and I can walk almost 30 feet form the Universal and keep a connection. AND thats while I have an SD card in! It's less than $50 on amazon and is their #1 selling product! It has 1700+ reviews on the site, which I found impressive.
AllanonMage said:
The Jabra BT800 (or 810, whatever it was with the LCD) would not get very loud with my Universal. It also wasn't very secure. The LCD would have been cool though...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I can confirm the issues with the volume for noisy conditions. In that case I have to manually raise the volume on the headset.
In my silent office the volume's just fine, but yes, it could be higher by default.
I never experienced problems with the range or any disturbances.
With the Universal on my desk I can even wander around on my balcony, which means being about 4 meters away and having no direct line of sight.
With a direct line of sight static gets noticable at about 8 meters, which is living room couch to kitchen sink
I got the BT800 from a good friend who felt uncomfortable wearing it and he told me, that he experienced range problems if the phone was in his left pocket and HS on his right ear. He was using a, mmh, i believe a wizard at that time and the behaviour didn't change after switching to a btv 500 or 250.
This brought me to the theory that range problems in case of small distances are closely related to the belly size of the user.
EvilJogga said:
This brought me to the theory that range problems in case of small distances are closely related to the belly size of the user.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
PRICELESS!!!!
I use my n5 as my mp3 player in my car but the sound sucks. I'm thinking of getting a dac to fix this.
I have a otg cable to plug in my usb key that contains my mp3 library. So first I know i will need a y otg, have some all ready but not sur I have the right one but that is a detail. I dont really care about simultaneously charging my phone.
So what good dac do you suggest. Keep in mind I don't have a lot of money, not to sure what kind of budget yet.
Thanks
Please
nitramus said:
I use my n5 as my mp3 player in my car but the sound sucks. I'm thinking of getting a dac to fix this.
I have a otg cable to plug in my usb key that contains my mp3 library. So first I know i will need a y otg, have some all ready but not sur I have the right one but that is a detail. I dont really care about simultaneously charging my phone.
So what good dac do you suggest. Keep in mind I don't have a lot of money, not to sure what kind of budget yet.
Thanks
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Are you sure you have not a faulty cable/ nexus 5 connector or bad regulated equalizer on nexus 5?
I ask you cause I m not an audiophile but nexus 5 sound great to my ears, almost like nexus s which feature one of the best DAC on portable devices
nitramus said:
I use my n5 as my mp3 player in my car but the sound sucks. I'm thinking of getting a dac to fix this.
I have a otg cable to plug in my usb key that contains my mp3 library. So first I know i will need a y otg, have some all ready but not sur I have the right one but that is a detail. I dont really care about simultaneously charging my phone.
So what good dac do you suggest. Keep in mind I don't have a lot of money, not to sure what kind of budget yet.
Thanks
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Try dragonfly by Audioquest or Cambridge Audio USB DAC. They sound awesome. I prefer the latter one. =)
Thanks for the reply. Everything I get gives me more info to search and get informed.
If you want a good dac at reasonable money try fio,get from Amazon
Sent from my Nexus 5
"Sucks" is a subjective term, but I agree with Axel85. If you're currently getting terrible sound, a USB DAC is a costly hail-mary that likely won't solve your problem. USB OTG DACs are great way to salvage an aging phone as a media player or to bypass a damaged the 3.5mm output. Otherwise, they're a way to turn already "great" sound into "exceptional." I can say with complete confidence that, even over bluetooth, the Nexus 5's built-in audio is impressive. If it "sucks" on your setup, then you definitely want to ensure that the problem doesn't lie elsewhere before investing in a DAC. If it is, in fact, the Nexus 5, ship that sucker back to Google, because a DAC definitely won't help. Just be sure there aren't other elements in your setup putting the constraints on your sound reproduction.
Now if you're truly blessed (cursed?) with golden ears and an audiophile's insatiable desire for perfection, then "sucks" probably has a different meaning for you; Otherwise, it's best to rule out everything else before plopping down substantial cash on a USB DAC. On that note, the Nexus' internal DAC crushes any entry-level/ low-end ($30-$50 DAC), so you'd really only want to consider the next step up, and it is a big step in price. Great units from $120-$200 from Fiio or Cambridge Audio. I've heard the Audioengine D3 on a laptop and it was fantastic, the form factor is great, as well, but I haven't investigated whether it plays nicely with lollipop OTG. There are a lot of issues to consider -some are legitimate headaches. Aside from the additional clutter of more cables and another powered device, the effect on your phone's battery is not one to take lightly. You may be able to currently stream pandora all day long, but with your phone acting as a USB host, you have to be conscious of the potential power draw from any USB DAC. A big amplifier can drain that battery quickly without its own power source to supplement. Many DACs are even equipped with their own internal batteries, but regardless, the power question is not something to minimize. Depending on the unit, powered USB hubs and the right cables can provide an easy fix.
But before you go pulling the trigger on a DAC, let me suggest a few things and some troubleshooting steps...
On the software side:
Play with built-in equalizer/AudioFX/DSP (it may do nothing at all with your ROM & kernel). I also highly recommend that you try playing your media through an app called PowerAmp. If that doesn't give you the fidelity boost you're looking for, then give Viper4Android a whirl. It requires a slightly more complicated installation (depending on the ROM), and the tweaking can get advanced, but the results are truly impressive with the right music. "FauxSound" is a custom kernel I'm yet to experiment with because it's (currently) incompatible with CM12.1 CAF, but the reviews in the forums seem overwhelmingly positive. When it comes to sound, perceptible differences vary from person to person.
As to troubleshooting the phone's output:
It should go without saying, but if your factory head unit and speakers and are junk ...if music has never sounded good on your system, a USB DAC isn't the miracle worker you need. Spend the money on a decent head unit and/or upgrade your speakers. An underpowered, factory installed head unit can turn otherwise decent speakers into muffled distortion makers, so take stock of the equipment you're working with and manage expectations. If you're an audiophile, you can likely ignore much of this, but for the sake of anyone else in a similar boat, considering a DAC to improve audio, lets go down the troubleshooting checkbox:
1) First and foremost, check your source files. If you're streaming, make sure it's high quality. You may need to go into the app's advanced settings. For most people's ears, there are diminishing returns above 320kbps MP3 /256AAC vs. the storage requirements. With the right gear and the right source though, "lossless" music can bring out elements you never heard on your favorite tracks: fingers lifting and moving along frets, or a half-note you never caught. If your ROM is capable of natively playing 96000Hz 24-bit FLAC, by all means, give it a go (or any other lossless).
2) Test your 3.5mm headphone connection with decent pair of actual headphones. Still sucks? Spray the jack with compressed air and see if it helps. Try with another set of headphones. Try with a friend's car, try on your home stereo. Then connect to your car and compare. If it's worse, swap out the cable before anything else. Quality matters here. The difference between the the $0.99 cable you buy at the gas station and the $12 cable at BestBuy can be huge. A quality cable means one sheilded for interference with wiring and connectors made of materials that optimize conductivity (often a thin gold plating). Many are even cut specifically to ensure a solid connection through the narrow opening of an aftermarket case/protector. A better connection means better sound.
3) If all is well with the 3.5mm, plug it into your mobile charger. Audio still clean? If not, try another charger. Still sounding crappy? Is this limited to the car or did you hear it on your headphones? How about over bluetooth? If it's only in the car, and sound gets worse on the charger, there might be a ground loop somewhere in the car's electrical system (often this manifests as a high frequency whine that increases as you accelerate, or changes frequency when you turn on the A/C, headlights, etc). This could be as simple as something plugged into the cars cigarette lighter, or a bad connection somewhere in the vehicles electrical system... The problem is the "somewhere" part, and tracing it down can mean pulling fuses all day long.
3) If you connect over bluetooth (not optimal) perform the same tests. If bluetooth degrades audio quality significantly, then your car stereo may be on an older standard that simply can't operate at the bandwidth capabilities for high-bitrate audio. Aside from just not using bluetooth, there's no simple fix for this. If you dont get a drop in audio quality when connecting to another bluetooth device, then your in-car options are limited: connect via 3.5mm out, replace the head unit with a newer one, or install a bluetooth 4.0+ adapter to the car stereo's auxillary inputs. It's worth at least mentioning that, although unlikely, interference from other devices could be an issue. Anything that operates within the same wireless spectrum as bluetooth could be a source of interference. A bluetooth obdii reader, a wireless transmitter from a rear view camera, even other phones in the car that have been paired with the stereo.... Anything on 2.4ghz Normally, there's a preamble before transmission that keeps devices operating on these frequencies from interfering with each other, but if there's a bluetooth device in the vehicle on an early standard, that may not be the case. Also, if there's any USB 3.0 connection (powered hub, thumb drive) in close proximity to bluetooth, get rid of it or buy a shielded extension cable -noise emitted at the connection crushes bluetooth throughput and connection reliability.
Regardless, just make sure that the rest of your system is up to the task before investing in a DAC. Don't get me wrong, they are fantastic with the right gear, but each component of your setup can improve output as much as it can act as a bottleneck on the quality of the sound it reproduces. Make sure the investment is worth it by ensuring your system is ready for it. If not, put your money towards the fundamentals: Head unit + speakers.
mborzill said:
If your ROM is capable of natively playing 96000Hz 24-bit FLAC, by all means, give it a go.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Are you aware of any such ROMs?
Well, some clarification is necessary... even stock kitkat should *play* a 24/96FLAC, but "Natively" isn't the correct terminology. If that were true 24/96 on the N5, this thread wouldn't exist. The Nexus 5 downsamples significantly, but the better the source, the better the sample. Quality will be great coming from a lossless 24bit/96khz source, but its not gonna be true 24/96 if its coming from the Nexus 5's internal DAC. It'll be downsampled to its hardware and software limitations. I know with kitkat this was 16bit/48khz, but I can't speak to whether or not this ceiling *actually* increased with Lollipop. In theory, the N5's Qualcomm Wolfson wcd9320 DAC supported up to 192khz, and Lollipop bumped support up to 96khz, but if I recall, it's the Snapdragon 800 that isn't capable of 24/96. Without a DAC, and downsampled to 16bit/48khz, you might get an imperceptibly lower noise floor, but other than I doubt you'd hear a difference between lossless sources.
Personally I think it's total overkill to use up that kind of space without having a DAC capable of reproducing it (or freakin golden ears) but if you're going for the most accurate reference track you can find for problem-tracing, have at it. Even Downsampled, that FLAC will sound much better than an encoded mp3.
If there's a ROM with true "native" 24/96khz reproduction on the N5 I certainly don't know about it... Or need it.
As to specific ROMs and compatibility: Cyanogenmod is my go-to. I prefer Viper4Android over AudioFX, but with major tweaking (specific to my headphones). Out of the box, AudioFX is great.
Lollipop, in general, has vastly improved audio performance. Raised sampling resolution from 16 bit PCM to 24bit and sampling rate from 44/48khz to support 96khz (if the phones hardware can support it, else USB DAC). Lower i/o latency gives the closest thing android has seen to real-time audio since the start (which has been a major issue for musicians,DJ, game developers, even VoIP). Floating point sampling is new too, which, in theory, reduces clipping, improves headroom and dynamic range.
Do I need to use a custom ROM with an external DAC like the Fiio E18 or other DAC's? Could I simply purchase any external DAC? If not what do I need to look for when shopping for external DAC's that work with the Nexus 5?
My Nexus 5 is stock currently on 5.1.
Thank you for any advice.
Viper 4 android.
Here’s my review on Choetech’s Wireless Bluetooth Audio Transmitter/Receiver
Product link: https://www.amazon.com/dp/B01MDV9ZHC
UPDATE: I just realized they have a PROMO code for $10 OFF to! ENTER this at amazon checkout: B8FC6Z6Q:good:
First off, this wireless bluetooth audio unit is truly a unique device. I love the ability to use it as a receiver and a transmitter! This device is about the size of a Gatorade cap - that’s nice. I can tell you that it also does exactly what it says, and it does it well!
I've used many different Bluetooth audio devices over time including big name devices like the Soundsports by Bose, Jawbone's Big Jambox, and many, many more. As far as it’s ability to respond to your needs, Choetech’s 2-in-1 Wireless Bluetooth Transmitter and Receiver is right up there with the more expensive units. For me to be happy with any Bluetooth device it had better be able to produce one thing - this can be summed up in a word like 'reliability' or 'consistency'. After all, if a Bluetooth device can't be found or can’t connect, what good is it? Choetech's Bluetooth 4.1 drivers are solid. I've had no issues with connectivity.
Secondly, I don't respond well at all to choppy or finicky audio connections. As a wedding DJ, I can say there is simply no room for that type of trouble! I didn't expect anything less than perfect when it came to the build quality of this Bluetooth transmitter. After all, Choetech have always produced some of the best wires and connectors in the game when it comes to devices and accessories.
If they would add an optical in/out port to it, that would be incredible. Maybe on the next one?
Anyways, if this device looks like it'll do the trick, and suit your needs, I'm here to say this is the one. If you're torn between brands, I can tell you Choetech's the way to go! I hope this helps someone! Thanks!
I installed this unit in wife's 2018 Highlander today. It sounds great if wifi is switched off, or if it's on and no data is flowing. I am using Network Mini to monitor data, and as soon as data is going up/down, the crackling starts.
I've reached out to Dasaita and am awaiting a reply
I have grounded the black wire with the ringlet directly to the frame but it makes no difference. I have NOT grounded the radio chassis yet. Also the noise goes away when the unit isn't crammed into the dash. When all the wires are in close proximity to radio is when it picks up
Anyone seen this issue. Love the radio otherwise...
Video:.
https://youtu.be/NhSzLh7CD_0
Wow - that's REALLY bad... I'm starting to get a little fed up with the interference noises from my Eonon MTCE-WWW unit as well. I don't have any issues when using the internal amp, but if I connect to an external amp with the line-out RCAs, I get interference from USB devices, the LED backlighting on the unit, etc. It's shame becuase I love the idea of an Android unit, but not sure I can deal with the subpar quality issues....
Going to try connecting to my amp via speaker-level outputs next and see if that helps at all.
Do you have a stock or aftermarket amp in your vehicle?
Cracks and noises for me as well with my Belsee BP3 PX5 unit.
For me too the noises seem to fade away when I turn off WiFi.
I upgraded the firmware of the unit with a Cs-x sound mod one (there's an recente one for Dasaita too) and it seem to have reduced the issue
https://forum.xda-developers.com/an...ent/mod-cs-x-mod-mtcd-e-mcu-firmware-t3816042
Maybe you can check this out ?
TheDiB said:
Cracks and noises for me as well with my Belsee BP3 PX5 unit.
For me too the noises seem to fade away when I turn off WiFi.
I upgraded the firmware of the unit with a Cs-x sound mod one (there's an recente one for Dasaita too) and it seem to have reduced the issue
https://forum.xda-developers.com/an...ent/mod-cs-x-mod-mtcd-e-mcu-firmware-t3816042
Maybe you can check this out ?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I suppose I could try updates, but I don't hold out much hope given that the problem seems to be related to proximity to the wifi antenna. It did this on the stock rom, as well as the Hal9k variant.
I'll update this thread if I manage to find an improvement.
The alternate sound-patched MCU's didn't make any difference whatsoever on my Eonon MTCE-WWW unit. I tried both the cs-x version and the wazdio verion. Same noise-related issues. You may help "hide" them a little by turning down the pre-amp value, but you can also do that with the stock MCUs, under the Factory Settings "Voice" tab.
To put it simply, I think they just use low-quality components with limited R&D - which is why these units are so inexpensive compared to more premium brands of plug-and-play units like Rosen, Dynavin, etc (they run WinCE though).
If using speaker-level outputs on the Eonon doesn't help in my case, I'll probably be going back to a WInCE unit, just becuase they seem to have much higher-quality audio components (better DAC's, 4V pre-outs, BBE processor, real 9-band EQ, time-delay, etc). I was really looking forward to an Android head-unit, but I'm just not willing to sacrifice sound quality to get the Android interface. Viper4Android helps a LOT in terms of sound-quality, but it can't help with the noise-related issues, which are more of a hardware thing...
Maybe some day they'll get there. I really wish they made low- and high-end versions of these radios - that way people had a choice between low-cost and high-quality.
That's a shame, as there is so much potential. I have a Hizpo PK5 in my (JBL-equipped) Sequoia, and it's completely noise-free. But this Dasaita for the Highlander is just very loud. It seems like it's a shielding issue. As stated previously, if I keep the head unit out with all the cables extended, the sound stops. I'm halfway tempted to buy an SMA wifi antenna with a cable long enough to get the RF signal away from the wires. The sound is exclusive to the left channel (both front and rear).
@TheDiB, missed your prior question. It's a JBL-equipped vehicle.
Yeah, your particular noise is REALLY bad (mine is more of something that you only hear if the music is muted or during really quiet parts of the music - and only in certain cases (but it still bothers me knowing that it's there).
Being that you can stop the noise by pulling the radio out, you may be able to figure out what is causing it. Maybe try disconnecting the AM/FM antenna to see if that has anytihng to do with it - I've read some cases where hte antenna was causing interference. Or just re-routing some of the wiring - or something along those lines.
In my case, the noises are present no matter what - but only if I use the RCA line-level outputs and an extrnal amp. If I use the stock built-in amp, there is no noise whatsoever. So mine seems to be related to the RCA line-level output hardware (shielding related, I'm guessing).
I would experiment some more if you are happy with the radio and sound-quality otherwise.
I'm hoping I hear something helpful back from Dasaita in the coming days. On this particular unit, the wifi antenna comes out about 1/2" above the main ISO plug for the radio. I suppose I could relocate the antenna by running the existing bulkhead SMA fitting through a screw hole elsewhere on the case to provide more distance. I'm not giving up yet The other issue is that it's the wife's car, so my access to it is limited.
I'm not using line-level outputs. The four pairs for the speaker output comes out of that ISO plug, and goes straight to the Toyota harness. Fader control (as well as a bunch of other controls/data) goes through the can bus adapter. But ultimately, those four speaker pair end up at the factory JBL amplifier.
Aside from the noise, the audio quality is equivalent to the stock radio. But, I'm not an audiophile, and I have the opposite of OCD...
So your stock JBL amp actually accepts speaker-level inputs? Usually, amps take line-level inputs. With the Eonon MTCE-WWW units for GM's, if your car has a stock Bose amp, there is a special "Bose adpater" that connects to the same port where you would connect the line-level RCA jacks for aftermarket amps, which is line-level - but instead of having RCA jacks at the other end, it just connects into the main wiring harness, so I guess it sends line-level signals through the speaker wires, to the Bose amp - and then the Bose amp amplifies them (that is just a guess though, based on the fact that the audio is coming from the same port that is used for an external aftermarket amp, which is line-level).
So the wiring harness you use for yours is exactly the same regardless of whether the car has a stock amplifier or not? Or maybe it's not an option on your car and they ALL come with JBL amps? Just trying to understand your setup a little better. Do you have a link to the unit you purcahsed?
jtrosky said:
So your stock JBL amp actually accepts speaker-level inputs? Usually, amps take line-level inputs. With the Eonon MTCE-WWW units for GM's, if your car has a stock Bose amp, there is a special "Bose adpater" that connects to the same port where you would connect the line-level RCA jacks for aftermarket amps, which is line-level - but instead of having RCA jacks at the other end, it just connects into the main wiring harness, so I guess it sends line-level signals through the speaker wires, to the Bose amp - and then the Bose amp amplifies them (that is just a guess though, based on the fact that the audio is coming from the same port that is used for an external aftermarket amp, which is line-level).
So the wiring harness you use for yours is exactly the same regardless of whether the car has a stock amplifier or not? Or maybe it's not an option on your car and they ALL come with JBL amps? Just trying to understand your setup a little better. Do you have a link to the unit you purcahsed?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
It must, because I'm not using any coax/low-level outputs. In fact, I haven't hooked up most of the pigtail connectors. The ISO harness has about 5 or 6 connectors that are used, and about as many that aren't (presumably for the non-JBL vehicles). I think the Toyota JBL set up is much like the Bose you described. In a previous Tundra, I had to buy an adapter that would convert the two-pair per speaker wires to RCA plugs which I could then use to connect my aftermarket radio (to use the low level outputs). That converter (made by Metra or Scoche, IIRC) also somehow tied into the canbus to power the amp and control the fader.
Ultimately with this PX5, I'm using the purple/green/gray/white speaker level outputs to go directly to the factory harness. No adapter in between. I can only assume the JBL amp is designed to accept this somehow. Both my Sequoia and now this Highlander are set up the same way.
Well, I am happy to report that I was able to resolve the noise by replacing the Dasaita wifi antenna with a full-sized SMA-equipped antenna from an old Asus router. The antenna was a female SMA, so I had to slip a small copper conductor into it so it would interface with the female SMA bulkhead on the radio - but once I did that, ALL the noise disappeared! So either something is wrong with the antenna they provided, or it's simply dumping too much RF right on top of the ISO connector with all the speaker outputs. Whew!
Very cool! Glad to hear that you got it resolved. So is the antenna now further away from the ISO connector - or is it just becuase it's a different antenna? You may to get an adapter or an antenna with the right connecter for long-term use (instead of using the wrong gender anteanna with a piece of copper wire installed).
Regardless, glad to hear that you figure it out! I wish my noise-related issues were so easy to solve.
Although, I did some brief testing this morning and it seems that using the speaker-level outputs is better than using the line-level outputs on mine (for connecting external amp). The noises are still there, but they aren't as loud when using speaker-level outputs for my external amp (usually, it's the other way around with higher-quality head-units).
These units are so close to being really good - it's a shame they have these noise-relasted issues...
jtrosky said:
Very cool! Glad to hear that you got it resolved. So is the antenna now further away from the ISO connector - or is it just becuase it's a different antenna? You may to get an adapter or an antenna with the right connecter for long-term use (instead of using the wrong gender anteanna with a piece of copper wire installed).
Regardless, glad to hear that you figure it out! I wish my noise-related issues were so easy to solve.
Although, I did some brief testing this morning and it seems that using the speaker-level outputs is better than using the line-level outputs on mine (for connecting external amp). The noises are still there, but they aren't as loud when using speaker-level outputs for my external amp (usually, it's the other way around with higher-quality head-units).
These units are so close to being really good - it's a shame they have these noise-relasted issues...
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Click to collapse
I didn't move the bulkhead SMA fitting. I would have had to break the factory seal, and I didn't want to jeopardize warranty just yet. The antenna I added is about 4x longer than the stubby they provided, so I suppose it is spreading the RF over a larger area. It has a hinge on it and if I aim it straight back the noise is still present. Bending it 90° away from the harness makes it totally silent - and there is no depreciation in the signal strength.
I have ordered a gender changer and a 3" SMA extension cable from Amazon, but I probably won't install it unless the problem returns. I figure why rock the boat.
Is the noise you're experiencing related to data transmission? Does it stop if you disable the wifi? I'm wondering if wrapping the first few inches of the wiring bundle with copper tape wouldn't provide shielding against induced RF noise.
Ah - I see. Interesting - so just a different antenna resolved your issue. Like you said, I guess it's spreading out the signal enough to avoid causing the interference. I'm sure someone else will find that info very useful in the future!
My noise issues are not realted to wifi. I have interference noises in the following situations:
1. If car is not running and radio LED backlighting is on (cuases a hum through the speakers). Mainly only noticeable when no music is playing (between songs, for example) or when there are very quiet parts of the music.
2. When using my headrest monitors.
3. Anytime the system accesses USB devices. The interference is pretty noticeable when reading/writing USB thumb drives - especially if they have LEDs on them.
4. If I my Eonon USB dashcam is active, it makes a strange intference noise from the speakers. Again, really only noticeable when no music is playing, but...
None of these are huge issues in of themselves, but at the same time, it just bothers me knowing that the interference exists. I've also noticed that the overall sound quality just isn't as good as my previous WinCE-based head-units - (much more expensive units - they have 4v preouts, higher-quality DAC's, etc) - even when using an external amplifier. Never had interference noises with them, so the Android unit is really a downgrade in terms of sound-quality, which is more important to me than having Android, I guess. I was hoping that there woulnd't be much difference in sound quality when using an external amp, but there still is...
At first, I thought the Android head-unit was awesome while testng "on the bench" - until I connected it in-car and used it for a few days, then I started noticing all of the "cons" (warning chimes and turn-signal sounds are horrible, button backlighting doesn't dim with the rest of the interior lights when dimmed, screen isn't as nice or as bright as previous units, super-reflecitive screen, the noise issues mentioned above, no true dual-zone for my headrest monitors, no XM tuner, having to jump through all kind of hoops just to get music to continue playing where it left off when restarting the car, etc). When I add up all of these "cons", I'm just not sure the Android unit is worth it for me. I'll probably be going back to my WinCE head-unit very soon (Dynavin N7 or Rosen GM1010/1210). The WinCE units are not as flexible as the Android units, but the sound quality is more important to me.
I'd *gladly* pay more for a higher-quality Android head-unit, but right now, they just don't seem to exist - which is unfortunate...
jtrosky said:
Ah - I see. Interesting - so just a different antenna resolved your issue. Like you said, I guess it's spreading out the signal enough to avoid causing the interference. I'm sure someone else will find that info very useful in the future!
My noise issues are not realted to wifi. I have interference noises in the following situations:
1. If car is not running and radio LED backlighting is on (cuases a hum through the speakers). Mainly only noticeable when no music is playing (between songs, for example) or when there are very quiet parts of the music.
2. When using my headrest monitors.
3. Anytime the system accesses USB devices. The interference is pretty noticeable when reading/writing USB thumb drives - especially if they have LEDs on them.
4. If I my Eonon USB dashcam is active, it makes a strange intference noise from the speakers. Again, really only noticeable when no music is playing, but...
None of these are huge issues in of themselves, but at the same time, it just bothers me knowing that the interference exists. I've also noticed that the overall sound quality just isn't as good as my previous WinCE-based head-units - (much more expensive units - they have 4v preouts, higher-quality DAC's, etc) - even when using an external amplifier. Never had interference noises with them, so the Android unit is really a downgrade in terms of sound-quality, which is more important to me than having Android, I guess. I was hoping that there woulnd't be much difference in sound quality when using an external amp, but there still is...
At first, I thought the Android head-unit was awesome while testng "on the bench" - until I connected it in-car and used it for a few days, then I started noticing all of the "cons" (warning chimes and turn-signal sounds are horrible, button backlighting doesn't dim with the rest of the interior lights when dimmed, screen isn't as nice or as bright as previous units, super-reflecitive screen, the noise issues mentioned above, no true dual-zone for my headrest monitors, no XM tuner, having to jump through all kind of hoops just to get music to continue playing where it left off when restarting the car, etc). When I add up all of these "cons", I'm just not sure the Android unit is worth it for me. I'll probably be going back to my WinCE head-unit very soon (Dynavin N7 or Rosen GM1010/1210). The WinCE units are not as flexible as the Android units, but the sound quality is more important to me.
I'd *gladly* pay more for a higher-quality Android head-unit, but right now, they just don't seem to exist - which is unfortunate...
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Click to collapse
Hello, have you found a solution, how you fix noise ?
jtrosky said:
Ah - I see. Interesting - so just a different antenna resolved your issue. Like you said, I guess it's spreading out the signal enough to avoid causing the interference. I'm sure someone else will find that info very useful in the future!
My noise issues are not realted to wifi. I have interference noises in the following situations:
1. If car is not running and radio LED backlighting is on (cuases a hum through the speakers). Mainly only noticeable when no music is playing (between songs, for example) or when there are very quiet parts of the music.
2. When using my headrest monitors.
3. Anytime the system accesses USB devices. The interference is pretty noticeable when reading/writing USB thumb drives - especially if they have LEDs on them.
4. If I my Eonon USB dashcam is active, it makes a strange intference noise from the speakers. Again, really only noticeable when no music is playing, but...
None of these are huge issues in of themselves, but at the same time, it just bothers me knowing that the interference exists. I've also noticed that the overall sound quality just isn't as good as my previous WinCE-based head-units - (much more expensive units - they have 4v preouts, higher-quality DAC's, etc) - even when using an external amplifier. Never had interference noises with them, so the Android unit is really a downgrade in terms of sound-quality, which is more important to me than having Android, I guess. I was hoping that there woulnd't be much difference in sound quality when using an external amp, but there still is...
At first, I thought the Android head-unit was awesome while testng "on the bench" - until I connected it in-car and used it for a few days, then I started noticing all of the "cons" (warning chimes and turn-signal sounds are horrible, button backlighting doesn't dim with the rest of the interior lights when dimmed, screen isn't as nice or as bright as previous units, super-reflecitive screen, the noise issues mentioned above, no true dual-zone for my headrest monitors, no XM tuner, having to jump through all kind of hoops just to get music to continue playing where it left off when restarting the car, etc). When I add up all of these "cons", I'm just not sure the Android unit is worth it for me. I'll probably be going back to my WinCE head-unit very soon (Dynavin N7 or Rosen GM1010/1210). The WinCE units are not as flexible as the Android units, but the sound quality is more important to me.
I'd *gladly* pay more for a higher-quality Android head-unit, but right now, they just don't seem to exist - which is unfortunate...
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Click to collapse
I also wanted to hear if you found out the problem .. since I myself have the same...