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I am currently asking around if people would be interested in Ubuntu MID for HTC Hero?
Now my question is would you be interested in this?
http://www.ubuntu.com/products/mobile
i am interested..
M
Just went to your site and from the look of it , it looks amazing!, really impressive and hoping this will actually come out soon
yes imteresed
kosworld said:
yes imteresed
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Click to collapse
same here looks nice
I know that we are on the Hero section, but your post seems to be interesting for the Archos:
http://www.archos.com/products/imt/archos_5it/dualos.html?country=gb&lang=en
I think it will be easier with the dual boot
@dbschr - Will you be developing this project, compiling a capable kernel is going to require a lot of attention, especially as the hero isn't open-source.
I would be interested fo sure - but why do You ask?
Stickman89 said:
@dbschr - Will you be developing this project, compiling a capable kernel is going to require a lot of attention, especially as the hero isn't open-source.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
The kernel's open-source, and the underlying OS is open-source. Yeah, the HTC drivers are closed, but with the kernel itself being open, they would be very easy to implement in another OS, like Ubuntu Mobile.
that day i was reading in a website that nokia n900 is dual booting ubuntu mobile without any significant lag.
Count me in
as I know, Ubuntu MID is targeted for Internet devices, or recently known as Tablets..
I don't know if you can make calls with this distribution !!
but .. what's the harm in trying?! downloading..
i would be interested...as long as i would have all the basic functions of my Hero working(Phone,modem,gps,3d drivers,speakers,accelerometer,hardware buttons,etc)
HD2
how would i go about loading Ubuntu MID onto my HD2, the hardware can more than handle it i just don't know enough about the boot loader to re-write it.
You can actually mount any distro and connect with vnc to it... i know someone on Modaco who managed to run a fully Ubuntu on his Hero But it's almost unusable...
Details for running linux on your hero here:
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=582347
Has any development actually begun?
Ubuntu MID edition is actually discontinued, if you read the wiki.
d3sm0nd said:
You can actually mount any distro and connect with vnc to it... i know someone on Modaco who managed to run a fully Ubuntu on his Hero But it's almost unusable...
Details for running linux on your hero here:
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=582347
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Click to collapse
this different. it is a chroot environment, not ubuntu actually running on the phone.
I bought this hero for android so I cant see the thing about having a sluggish os like ubuntu on it!! I would rather see slitaz linux to see how fast it runs as its a desktop distro at 27mb is quick!!!
The more ablities I have, the better the world is. I'm in!
Does anyone know if its possible to flash Windows Moile O/S onto a HTC Desire which is currently running Android 2.1?
I think the answer to this is no, as it would be unlicensed from a WinMo perspective, and therefore count as warez if distributed. Sorry.
I think the answer is no！
I think the answer is no！
HTC said that they would do better on their each own system before.
So...
No, because Windows Mobile is closed source. Android can be ported to many devices, cause it is (mostly) open source, but that's not the case with Windows Mobile.
And why would you want it anyway? Android is much better.
Meh, I'm tired of these claims. This is not the case at all and having source to Windows Mobile itself is mostly irrelevant. Think about it. Was source ever needed to port WM 6.5 to devices that shipped with WM5? Would it really matter that most of Windows Mobile/Pocket PC shell and OS components are closed source once you've ported a compatible Windows CE kernel to your new hardware? Of course not!
In theory, all you ever really needed to run a full WM/CE on new hardware was the Windows CE kernel (OAL portion) ported to your specific hardware and drivers to make things like the screen work. Once that is done, porting WM wouldn't be any different than upgrading it on a device it shipped with. Of course, you wouldn't have the same flexibility of fixing OS bugs as with linux, but it should still be doable. Outside the embedded HW experience needed to port a kernel, the biggest issue to overcome I see is driver support. Sadly, way too many OEMs and chipset vendors (Qualcomm, Nvidia) distribute binary only drivers for their proprietary hardware. Outside of a few community efforts, this driver situation only seems marginally better on commercial Linux devices but better it is. Linux probably has more community developed drivers with source but nothing is stopping people from porting these to CE. I suppose it all comes down to developer interest (or lack thereof). Open source enthusiasts who have positive things to say about the Windows CE OS seem few and far between and most of the capable people here seem focused on just enhancing existing hardware with the OS or GUI skinning rather than porting the OS itself to newer, interesting hardware. I guess there has always been a real lack of people with the lethal combination of skill and passion in the various Windows CE enthusiast communities.
I still think of Windows CE as Microsoft's little closed source answer to Linux in the embedded space. Yeah, you may not get all the source and things like corelibc may be lacking, but it's still runs on a wider variety of hardware than XP ever will and for a (mostly) closed source, embedded OS, offers more open, familiar development options than most of the competition outside *nix varients. Again, just look at the recent ports of Windows Mobile 6 to the HTC Magician.
The only reason Windows Mobile (or at least CE) hasn't been ported to more aftermarket hardware is lacking developer interest. Windows CE itself has already been ported to the GP32 and original Xbox which died due to poor developer interest.
As for Android... I'm sorry, Android is cute and all but it still lacks the range of development tools and powerful desktop level productivity applications like Softmaker Office that Windows CE based platforms have enjoyed for years. And no, VNCing into a locally running X server on a debian install and using a copy of Abiword doesn't count. It's getting there, though I still prefer CE.
TFGBD,
WM5 and WM6 are the same kernel, of course that can be ported. WM on the Desire will not happen.
Simple as that.
shaundalglish said:
TFGBD,
WM5 and WM6 are the same kernel, of course that can be ported. WM on the Desire will not happen.
Simple as that.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yeah, it's very, very unlikely anyone will ever port a CE 5.x or any other CE kernel version to the Desire or other hardware but it's not impossible. That was the point. People said the same about the Magician getting a 5.x kernel OS like WM6. True, it's still WinCE, I was simply pointing out that little is impossible when/if the right person becomes interested and puts their mind to it. Who knows? Maybe someone was already discouraged by forceful allegations that porting WinCE to hardware it never shipped with was impossible. I was just offering some words of encouragement.
Someone already created an application for running PSgroove on Nokia N900(android). Is it possible for us to have this on HTC diamond or other windows mobile phones.
It's basically emulating a dongle inside our phones. Does anyone have any idea how to do this?
hello,
the N900 port is not the same as Android, Nokia N900 have a Linux based OS but it's not Android, I have an Xperia X1 myself, and today I already downloaded Android for X1 and prepared it on my X1 just to test with it when the Android port is out soon....
in case it works, i will post all needed steps
You're right. N900 is pure Linux, but still the developer said it will be ported to android too. Damn, The only group that will miss this nice program will be us, windows mobile users, at least in the high end mobile category anyways.
it's a good idea for you now to download Android for Xperia x1 and get the feel of it, u can revert back to WM simply by restarting, this way u can be ready when the android release is out, and let's hope it can run on this emulated Android/Xperia,the Guy working on the Android port said it has to be rooted (Super User privilege) and i think this Android release is rooted, because when i run Terminal Emulator in Android and switch to su, then type id, i got id=0 ( and 0 is root ) so let's keep our fingers crossed
Source code for linux phone released
The author has already released the source for the N900 port - linux.
http://github.com/kakaroto/PSFreedom
I looked briefly in the code and it seems pretty simple actually, except for coding the Hub stuff (there I lost it)...
I think it is not that hard to code a simple app that could do it on Windows Mobile directly, considering that our devices are capable of emulating a USB hub...
Maybe some experienced coder could give it a go??
mihaiolimpiu said:
The author has already released the source for the N900 port - linux.
http://github.com/kakaroto/PSFreedom
I looked briefly in the code and it seems pretty simple actually, except for coding the Hub stuff (there I lost it)...
I think it is not that hard to code a simple app that could do it on Windows Mobile directly, considering that our devices are capable of emulating a USB hub...
Maybe some experienced coder could give it a go??
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yeah, that's the catch. How to program USB in windows mobile?
this project has my support. Sorry, cannot contribute to coding, but am free to test!
I am also interested in this project and I am waiting impatiently to test the PSGroove on Windows mobile
Cseb87 said:
I am also interested in this project and I am waiting impatiently to test the PSGroove on Windows mobile
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
me too i want it on my kaiser
touch pro2 user wanting this also, i know nothing about porting code but i am willing to test it!
Using Android to do this should be possible
Sorry everybody, I'm hedging my bets that there will not be a windows mobile port of PSGROOVE.
The reason ports have been landing on Linux/Android devices so quickly is because Linux/Android is open source and toying with drivers, controllers and the kernel is very easy. Windows Mobile is a very closed platform and even though the hardware might pose a problem, the OS is likely to be the deciding factor in the viability of something like a PSGROOVE port. Some operating systems such as Unix-based ones are designed to be easy to develop on at low level, others are not.
This is why we can have Android on WinMo devices and not iOS. This is why Linux and TI-84 already have ports of PSGROOVE but the iPhone port is as yet unreleased.
Far more likely is a version for an Android port on our devices. I'm not guaranteeing anything, and I'm not ruling anything out. Just a heads up.
I would like to understand how the code works, anybody knows a good documentation of that exploit?
maybe im missing something, but why is psgroove being ported (mainly) to phones ... wouldnt a laptop be a better choice? ... Someone please help a noob
lufcmattylad said:
maybe im missing something, but why is psgroove being ported (mainly) to phones ... wouldnt a laptop be a better choice? ... Someone please help a noob
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You have a double male usb-a cable 5meter laying around? Nearly anybody has. Your phone is much smaller and you have a fitting cable everywhere
scilor said:
You have a double male usb-a cable 5meter laying around? Nearly anybody has. Your phone is much smaller and you have a fitting cable everywhere
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
lol
That's not the reason. USB controllers for the PC don't have a USB host function, which is essential for this hack. That's why you can't use you PC for this hack.
You can use a computer for that they are an usb host, usb-sticks are normally not . Install linux and have fun
here it is HD2 android psgroove port
hXXp://psfreedom.com/wiki/index.php?title=HTC_HD2
scilor said:
I would like to understand how the code works, anybody knows a good documentation of that exploit?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
the original psgroove files(they recently updated teh shellcode to give lvl2 peek/poke calls
hxxp://github.com/psgroove/psgroove[/URL]
Openpsjailbreak which allows bdvd emulation
its basically the same as the ps groove only 4 values where changes
(0x78 0x78 0x78 0x78 to 0x62 0x64 0x76 0x64)this one needs to be updated to add the lvl2 peek/poke calls
hxxp://github.com/openpsjailbreak/OpenPSJailbreak
PSfreedom linux version
hxxp://github.com/kakaroto/PSFreedom
Exploit reverse engineering
hxxp://ps3wiki.lan.st/index.php/PSJailbreak_Exploit_Reverse_Engineering[/URL]
payload reverse engineering
hxxp://ps3wiki.lan.st/index.php/PSJailbreak_Exploit_Payload_Reverse_Engineering[/URL]
This port would be so bad just need to be able to make a usb hub emulator that can change the device address of multiple devices at one.
The descriptor for it is really easy to make. and one the hub is created just need to implement the exploit in the order described(port1,port2,port3,dc port2,port4, port 5 ,dc port3)
and port 6 is not neccesary at all to run the exploit it had the original use of just acting as a test to make sure the exploit worked and made the dongle led turn green. cuased a lvl1 panic if the device was ever removed)
The main issue with a windows mobile version is making the usb hub as we dont have that much in terms of open source drivers. So if someone could emulate a usb hub through there device we could easily get this rolling.
Would be nice to see this on my i900
if no tthis the only way i coul dthink of is to try to put linux on phone and porting from the n900. an dno not andromnia android linux it would be ubuntu linux
stupid new user cant post links :rant:
Hey guys, Evo owner here , i posted in the evo section and got 2 replies via PM's. I have 4 chips that are flashable for sale. I bought 6 Xplain boards and am using 2 of them. The other 4 are up for grabs. Let me know, more you want the less money ill offer them for. i respond VERY quickly to messages, thanks.
Just wondering if slax could be ran on rt considering it can be ran from a sdcard. On you phone or usb I was wondering if any dev has looked into it sorry if this is in the wrong section
Did you do any research before asking this?
Slax is an operating system. Specifically one compiled for x86. RT devices use ARM CPU's not x86. Who cares about SD cards etc when CPU architectures are in the way.
Slax being open source could be ported to arm but this is non trivial as there are drivers etc that are device specific. Even so, the bootloader on RT devices is locked down so you can't run anything that isn't signed with microsofts certificates. Funnily enough microsoft have only issued a certificate for windows RT and you can't get this certificate yourself.
Theoretically the hardware could be made to run SLAX.
In practise locked bootloader and a non trivial porting process make this impossible.
SixSixSevenSeven said:
Did you do any research before asking this?
Slax is an operating system. Specifically one compiled for x86. RT devices use ARM CPU's not x86. Who cares about SD cards etc when CPU architectures are in the way.
Slax being open source could be ported to arm but this is non trivial as there are drivers etc that are device specific. Even so, the bootloader on RT devices is locked down so you can't run anything that isn't signed with microsofts certificates. Funnily enough microsoft have only issued a certificate for windows RT and you can't get this certificate yourself.
Theoretically the hardware could be made to run SLAX.
In practise locked bootloader and a non trivial porting process make this impossible.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Well I read alittke about it and now I dont now much about computers im trying to learn. But I work 60 to 70 hrs aweek at a very demanding job I have to kidds so it doesnt leave much time to teach your self decades worth of computer knoledge but im trying I bought this asus vivo for my little girl for christmass thinking about family also and thinking I was getting a real windows 8 I was this slax on my android phone and since you can run it from my phone to which is arm to a computer I was trying to be hope ful thats why I ask maybe someone alot smarter than my self would now hopeing that maybe this option has been over looked
I never used Linux never knew anyone who has. What can you run on Linux game wise? Can you play any Windows games on Linux? What is the newest version of Linux? How do you buy computer parts to make a Linux computer? All I ever seen is Windows logo on parts. Whats the advantages compared to Windows? How does one get it one a computer does if come on a disk or flash someplace?
Thank you
Rbohannon89 said:
I never used Linux never knew anyone who has. What can you run on Linux game wise? Can you play any Windows games on Linux? What is the newest version of Linux? How do you buy computer parts to make a Linux computer? All I ever seen is Windows logo on parts. Whats the advantages compared to Windows? How does one get it one a computer does if come on a disk or flash someplace? Thank you
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I haven't used Linux directly in quite a long time but, the following threads may be helpful in understanding it a bit better. Don't be afraid to ask for some member guidance within one of them too.
https://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=1459153
https://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=2723240
https://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=3300596
https://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=3530696
https://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=2885245
https://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=1076138
There's others out there but, this will give you a good start...
Good Luck!
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
I DO NOT provide support via PM unless asked/requested by myself. PLEASE keep it in the threads where everyone can share.
I looked at them but that didn't answer any my question.
There is Steam on Linux. And lot of games are available on Linux. You can't play all windows games on Linux .
http://store.steampowered.com/linux
Windows is like an LTS OS if compared to Linux.
So Ubuntu 16.04 is a safe.
Some OS are updated on daily basis like Arch , Debian.
Some every 6 months like Linux Mint & Ubuntu ,
Linux runs on everything. So basically , as long as you have a computing device.
As far as custom Linux PC is concerned, checkout System76.
https://system76.com/
There are nice builds and they come with good support.
karandpr said:
There is Steam on Linux. And lot of games are available on Linux. You can't play all windows games on Linux .
http://store.steampowered.com/linux
Windows is like an LTS OS if compared to Linux.
So Ubuntu 16.04 is a safe.
Some OS are updated on daily basis like Arch , Debian.
Some every 6 months like Linux Mint & Ubuntu ,
Linux runs on everything. So basically , as long as you have a computing device.
As far as custom Linux PC is concerned, checkout System76.
https://system76.com/
There are nice builds and they come with good support.
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Click to collapse
What is the advantages and disadvantages in having linux? Also what do most people use it for everyday personal use?
Rbohannon89 said:
What is the advantages and disadvantages in having linux? Also what do most people use it for everyday personal use?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Linux just works. Windows has lot of software. Mac is really optimized.
People use Linux to devlop software mostly. Cos it's has great support for development and most servers run on linux.
Windows is still for people who want variety of software and games.
karandpr said:
Linux just works. Windows has lot of software. Mac is really optimized.
People use Linux to devlop software mostly. Cos it's has great support for development and most servers run on linux.
Windows is still for people who want variety of software and games.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
So can I can play Windows games somehow? I'm only asking cause I'm thinking of buying a older laptop to experiment with and always curious about Linux. Wanted to play with Linux and learn it. Thanks for the response.
Rbohannon89 said:
So can I can play Windows games somehow? I'm only asking cause I'm thinking of buying a older laptop to experiment with and always curious about Linux. Wanted to play with Linux and learn it. Thanks for the response.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
There are lot of steam games for linux . Older games can be played using Wine or Crossover...
Don't expect to play newer games due to graphics card limitations. (DirectX and Video graphics drivers cause issues.)
Rbohannon89 said:
So can I can play Windows games somehow? I'm only asking cause I'm thinking of buying a older laptop to experiment with and always curious about Linux. Wanted to play with Linux and learn it. Thanks for the response.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
An older laptop would be a good way to start. Since it's an older laptop I don't imagine there will be an expectation to play new games on it, Windows or otherwise. Still, remains a great way to dip in and and look at Linux's potential.
Also, the make and model of the laptop can determine how well it is suited for Linux (you have mentioned the Windows stickers earlier - especially recently manufacturers have been making it difficult to allow the switch to Linux), can do a web search with 'linux' in the search, or a distribution. e.g. ...
Code:
linux support lenovo t420
debian support lenovo t420
Lenovo, HP, and Dell are big names that appear to play nice (and System76 makes PC's for Linux). Others, can be like rolling the dice.
And when I hint at a difficult time, it's usually the wi-fi, sometimes the trackpad, maybe sound, rarely something very important like video.
Not saying this to discourage, only to suggest research when it comes to any equipment, old or new. Hopefully the toughest thing would be deciding which distribution to choose - I'm enough of an old fogey to stick to versioned, long-term releases like Debian and avoid the bleeding edge "rolling releases" provide.
Hope this helps.
Oh (looking back to the first post), advantages (which are in the eye of the beholder since they can potentially hold a disadvantage):
Free (as in freedom). I like to be able to vote with my dollar, even though Linux users are rarely obligated to pay for software. This is a philosophical reason, and one can go deep down that rabbit hole, what I like is, nothing is hidden from the public eye since the software is often accompanied by source code, on request. Which makes it difficult for say, a search assistant to send unknown data back to the mother ship.
Variety of experience. If you don't like an application, a windows manager, heck even the init process, you can replace it with something else or even write your own.
Support for older hardware. Often the method to revive a five to ten (sometimes quite older - I occasionally run an up-to-date Linux-powered laptop from 2002 with very satisfactory results) year old device for a new life.
Thank you so much for the replies. What kind of hardware and era should I look for to make a smart decision to what kind of laptop to get? From someone who has never ever used linux or even seen it only used windows how hard is the learning curb? Can I load it on the the pc and just go for it or will I be massively confused?
Rbohannon89 said:
Thank you so much for the replies. What kind of hardware and era should I look for to make a smart decision to what kind of laptop to get? From someone who has never ever used linux or even seen it only used windows how hard is the learning curb? Can I load it on the the pc and just go for it or will I be massively confused?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I would go for a once-mid-to-high-end laptop of about six years old (newer run but still holding the Windows 7 stickers), from a vendor I noted before. It does not guarantee complete compatibility so you would still want to cross reference the model number.
I am not a fan of "chiclet" keyboards (I have enough difficulty typing on laptop keyboards) and have fond memories of the IBM ThinkPads (I used to own the popular 600X) that I maintain one of the final bastions before Lenovo took design tips from Apple (by the way, I hear MacBooks can have reasonable compatibility as well, though there would be an extra premium there).
For a laptop longevity perspective (the second thing to look for), a "flagship" laptop from a vendor (especially from Apple or Lenovo) means better access to (and thus generally less expensive) spare parts. To identify this on the Lenovo side, it would mean part of the "T" or "X" lineup (both are business grade; the X models just have a smaller footprint). For what it's worth, business-grade HP laptops are the "ProBook" series.
From what I understand, the learning curve is not that difficult. There have been people who knew nothing about computers that learned Linux quite easily. The challenge for a Windows user trying Linux becomes "un-learning" specific workflow to make way for new ways of doing things. Apologies I can only be general - me trying to share my experience with the learning curve is difficult since that transition was about two decades ago and Microsoft drastically changed the typical user's workflow three times between the early 1990's of my first computer and the year 2000 (MS-DOS -> Windows 3.1 -> Windows 95 -> NT5) that makes the transition from Windows 7 to 8 to 10 look like a food fight. The first year I was quite reliant on a guru (I was in the expectation to accelerate my knowledge for an upcoming project) until I was directed to not use that as a crutch. A bit sad to say, that moment I was told to "RTFM" for a simple problem was when I really started to learn.
But I would definitely not dive into the deep end (as they say) by wiping your main computer for Linux. For starters, even with decent backups (which you should be doing anyway), your data can be inaccessible (installing Linux on a fully set up PC means losing all your personal files there, and if your backup tool to other media is done by a Windows program, Linux may not support restoring that data).
It is also a quick way to become frustrated when hitting even a small roadblock. I would not use "confused" as asked above for this phenomenon. When you combine the impact of the problem with the time in which you would need it resolved by, it can create a sort of desperation on a forum when the answer could have been glaring back without realizing it. Depending on how well documented the issue's solution is (and when a problem that prevents the achievement of a deadline occours on short notice, blind spots tend to happen to even the best of us), would-be readers get frustrated as well and may criticize the lack of research. An exaggerated XDA example of this is when someone flashes a ROM on their daily driver, without any backups first, without wiping anything, and then frantic that their only phone has app force closures every five seconds - and the plane for their two week trip leaves in six hours. In short, a dedicated device to play on means you set the pace on how you want to learn.
A dedicated laptop would be the better way to go. For a no-cost (no additional hardware to buy) demo of Linux, can try a live CD (will also determine how your hardware can interact with Linux) or maintain a persistent instance through an install in Oracle VirtualBox or VMWare (which Linux will work even if your hardware does not play with Linux). Much further away from recommended territory we have the "cold turkey" method (gripes noted in previous two paragraphs), and finally - for a reason - dual-boot (which has to opportunity to hose one or both operating systems at any given moment - including your data - for as something as simple as a Windows Update).
This turned out to be longer than expected, but I hope this helps.
So it's been about 20 I don't know it's been about since 1997 that I played the Linux or Kali nethunter I was wondering if these are possible put on my smg900v or piece of crap that's the original smart phone from Samsung I don't remember the name but it still on Android Jelly Bean I believe was interested if I could take my two older phones and wipe the OS completely and make them nothing but Linux because I used to have a lot of fun with that we used to stay up and drink beers and play on it you know and then it went away in 2008 and I haven't had a cell phone in years because my work gave me one any advice would be appreciated but my youngest son would probably really be interested in it are you having dyslexia try to get him in anything also I found back in the day where they used to convert that phone to be 2G but I can't find anything but the source code and I don't know how to completely enter source code into an Android phone I had a computer I can do it on the computer but not a phone
averydiablo said:
So it's been about 20 I don't know it's been about since 1997 that I played the Linux or Kali nethunter I was wondering if these are possible put on my smg900v or piece of crap that's the original smart phone from Samsung I don't remember the name but it still on Android Jelly Bean I believe was interested if I could take my two older phones and wipe the OS completely and make them nothing but Linux because I used to have a lot of fun with that we used to stay up and drink beers and play on it you know and then it went away in 2008 and I haven't had a cell phone in years because my work gave me one any advice would be appreciated but my youngest son would probably really be interested in it are you having dyslexia try to get him in anything also I found back in the day where they used to convert that phone to be 2G but I can't find anything but the source code and I don't know how to completely enter source code into an Android phone I had a computer I can do it on the computer but not a phone
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
The closest thing you can do is run linux with chroot.
Here is a good post to get you started.
https://www.xda-developers.com/guid...a-gnulinux-environment-on-any-android-device/