For those of you with a device that is NOT supported for the official WM6 rom release, this is what you need to do to flash it to your device. It is a reversable process (save for m700 users, you all need to backup your OEM rom first).
First step, if you don't have it already get hard-spl:
http://forum.xda-developers.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=42938&d=1183561237
Second step, flash it if you didn't already have it.
Third step download my safely converted update:
http://rapidshare.com/files/4219712...oIPL_noRadio_offical_rom_sspl_loader.rar.html
Step 4, flash it.
If you want the radio, proceed to use the others posted here at the forum...
hi , sorry for the noob. question but i'm not a native english speaker and would u tell me plz what u mean by "flash it" ? i guess uploading it to the PDA then install from there? or run it from PC or using sync. or ... ??
doudydoudy said:
hi , sorry for the noob. question but i'm not a native english speaker and would u tell me plz what u mean by "flash it" ? i guess uploading it to the PDA then install from there? or run it from PC or using sync. or ... ??
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
LOL, sorry mate but that really IS a noob question
works perfect !
Thanks man
doudydoudy said:
hi , sorry for the noob. question but i'm not a native english speaker and would u tell me plz what u mean by "flash it" ? i guess uploading it to the PDA then install from there? or run it from PC or using sync. or ... ??
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Check out racerx_'s guide over here:
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=316098
It has step-by-step guides with pictures to guide you along. By the way, don't do anything before you read through the tons of information you can find on this site. Just to be on the safe side.
Hope this helps!
Thank's a lot Shadowmite,
Just one last question before I try :
You're refering to the "Hard-SPL_ZakMcRofl.zip" in your first post. On the other hand, I saw you opening a thread regarding the new "Hard-SPL 1.30 MFG - Oli.zip".
Which one should I/we use, or doesn't it make any difference.
Having a SFR/Vodafone s300+ I'm a bit scared as there's no genuine rom to downgrade back to in case I get blocked.
Bye
because he wrote that post before Olipro released his updated Hard-SPL.. use the new one.
Shadowmite said:
For those of you with a device that is NOT supported for the official WM6 rom release, this is what you need to do to flash it to your device. It is a reversable process (save for m700 users, you all need to backup your OEM rom first).
First step, if you don't have it already get hard-spl:
http://forum.xda-developers.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=42938&d=1183561237
Second step, flash it if you didn't already have it.
Third step download my safely converted update:
http://rapidshare.com/files/4219712...oIPL_noRadio_offical_rom_sspl_loader.rar.html
Step 4, flash it.
If you want the radio, proceed to use the others posted here at the forum...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Thank you so much!
I want to try this ROM right now, but I don´t have access to rapidshare-like sites here in my office.
Can someone upload this ROM to a public server ZIPped and RARed with password (to avoid proxy to sneak into the file... it's blocking some downloads...)
I can setup a FTP account. If someone can upload the ROM to my server, I can share the ROM with people who has the same problem with rapidshare-and-stuff sites.
Thanks!!!
installed the rom.
but....
now i want to return to the original rom and downgrading i obtain a vendor id error.
I tried to cid unlock the device also and the error i the same. any ideas that can help me?
thanks
junwei83 said:
Check out racerx_'s guide over here:
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=316098
It has step-by-step guides with pictures to guide you along. By the way, don't do anything before you read through the tons of information you can find on this site. Just to be on the safe side.
Hope this helps!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
wow man ! thanks a LOT ! i really appreciate it
only a few ppl would stop and help
thanks again
racerx_ said:
because he wrote that post before Olipro released his updated Hard-SPL.. use the new one.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Tried with the Olipro and everything works fine.
Big thanks to all the people on this forum always ready to help.
Shadowmite said:
For those of you with a device that is NOT supported for the official WM6 rom release, this is what you need to do to flash it to your device. It is a reversable process (save for m700 users, you all need to backup your OEM rom first).
First step, if you don't have it already get hard-spl:
http://forum.xda-developers.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=42938&d=1183561237
Second step, flash it if you didn't already have it.
Third step download my safely converted update:
http://rapidshare.com/files/4219712...oIPL_noRadio_offical_rom_sspl_loader.rar.html
Step 4, flash it.
If you want the radio, proceed to use the others posted here at the forum...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Thanx, process working...
Version of this rom?
SEA or ANZ?
Thanks
I've just updated the SPL with the one provided on this post...
It seem to be the Des’ Crash-Proof SPL...
I have this informations on the screen when starting in boot loader mode:
------------------------
TRIN100
IPL-0.50
TRIN100
SPL-9.99.CP
------------------------
which versions we have to use ??
I think that you previously talking about olipro ?
racerx_ said:
because he wrote that post before Olipro released his updated Hard-SPL.. use the new one.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
ROM working but...
Hi there!
First of all thanks for the trouble of getting the nasty bits out of the bundle and giving us just the OS
But... (there seems to be always a "but" with WM6) I've been having some problems with this:
- VOIP is nowhere to be found, no SIP settings anywhere.
- Memory Stick corruption. From time to time my SDHC stick goes crazy, showing up strange characters for the filenames and only a soft-reset gets it back to normal.
- Did any of you guys manage to get Video Calling working?
Well... the major deal for me is the Memory Card issue... Anyone having the same problems? Any ideas?
Best,
M Addario
--
HTC P3600
any hard-spl will work for this repackaging of the release.. you're fine to proceed
yes, you have Des' crash-proof SPL
addario, there's really no need to post the same question in multiple threads..
This rom seem to not contain any ext_rom ...
The "Device Information" module dont report any EXT_ROM version ...
it's "normal" ?
The attached screen capture show the "Device information" tab.
There is no informations about the ext_rom.
I also cannot access to it thru Total Commander.
So... it seem that something is corrupted on this rom update...
Some Info....
@ Shadowmite
Dear could you please tell me from which version did you re-make this ROM & why is there no detail showing of ExtROM in Device Information.
Hi,
I'm completely new to all this but have done my best to try and figure it out for myself but I'd still like to make sure I've understood a few things correctly...
I have an SFR s300+ bought here in France. The OS is WM5 and I'd like WM6.
I have allready tried out the "off"+"camera button"= soft reset to see if I needed to install a hard SPL : I do. I've downloaded Des' Crashproof (due to the reassuring name).
I can now install that by following the guide without backing anything up yet...
Once done I will have to copy all my important info and then I will be able to flash any ROM of my choice (English, French, official or not) is that right? If I'm not mistaken and I can install any ROM, which English ROM is the best (this one looks good...)?
I'd also like to know if I have to install a radio after this or will the one I have at the moment (that works fine) be preserved?
If I do have to install a radio which do you recommend for SFR in France considering I sometimes go to Spain.
Thanks for your help
Related
Dear All,
I spent a lot of hours, days, reading the posts on the forum about the Universal and upgrading it. I didn't find some answers.
I still have some open questions that I request your help in order to have a safe upgrade.
I have a Qtek 9000, that is SimLock.
I would like to Upgrade to an AKU 3.5 ROM or to one Crossbow ROM ( still under assessment)
Now my questions:
To upgrade,
I will have to upgrade bootloader, because since Aku 3.2 Rom , it needs to be 1.01. That is clear.
Edit: Opsss tried bottloader for first time and my version is 2.01 So no bootloader upgrade, but new question:
Sim Unlock works with bootloader 2.01?
1 - Do I need to SIMUNLOCK before ROM or Radio ROM upgrade? If yes:
- I will need an oficial radio ROM. Which one? Are 1.13 or 1.14 is OK?
- Must I first Simunlock and only after upgrade the bootloader?
2 -Country Code error, what is it? (Solved)
Edit : About Country error, no specific answer, but i got almost what I looked for.
Thx you all for the hard work and colaboration on this site.
Cheers
TADAA... answers
I'm afraid you didnt took your best sshot at searching, cuz 3 or 4 post above yours is a topic called "problems with upgrading?"
in this topic you will find the info AND tools you need to succesfully upgrade..
I don't know about the simlock thing, i flashed mine with the simlock on, to a cooked rom, and it works, but don't blame me if it F*CKS up your mobile i suggest that you do a bit of research in that part..
Country id error:
You get that when you try to install a rom that is from a different manufacturer/country then yours, to solve this problem look at this link
(the link to the forementioned topic)
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=290234
Good luck!
bastiaanoskam said:
I'm afraid you didnt took your best sshot at searching, cuz 3 or 4 post above yours is a topic called "problems with upgrading?"
in this topic you will find the info AND tools you need to succesfully upgrade..
I don't know about the simlock thing, i flashed mine with the simlock on, to a cooked rom, and it works, but don't blame me if it F*CKS up your mobile i suggest that you do a bit of research in that part..
Country id error:
You get that when you try to install a rom that is from a different manufacturer/country then yours, to solve this problem look at this link
(the link to the forementioned topic)
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=290234
Good luck!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I know how to solve the country error, I just would like to get more info about it.
About the other post, I will look for it, but when i made search ( last time was the last week) I didn't find the answers i look for.
Since I looked and didn't find it could you please provide a link? ( sorry)
Thx for your help.
Hi,
1. I agree with bastiaanoskam cause I think almost any question about upgrading the Universal has been answered before in this forum.
2. I don't see the need to unlock your device if you don't want to change your current provider.
3. As far as I understand the country error is due to a change in the original language for which your device was thought (look for MaUpgradeUt_noID.exe) i.e. you have a Japanese device and want to upgrade to WWE version.
4. About the bootloader, I just saw one ROM that is said it requires to upgrade your bootloader to 1.01, it was a preview AKU3.2 from i-mate but I don't really know if the upgrade is really needed. I have read it's not needed for Crossbow and also for custom cooked AKU3.5 but again every new cooked ROM usually has a thread so you can find answers there.
tripledes said:
Hi,
1. I agree with bastiaanoskam cause I think almost any question about upgrading the Universal has been answered before in this forum.
2. I don't see the need to unlock your device if you don't want to change your current provider.
3. As far as I understand the country error is due to a change in the original language for which your device was thought (look for MaUpgradeUt_noID.exe) i.e. you have a Japanese device and want to upgrade to WWE version.
4. About the bootloader, I just saw one ROM that is said it requires to upgrade your bootloader to 1.01, it was a preview AKU3.2 from i-mate but I don't really know if the upgrade is really needed. I have read it's not needed for Crossbow and also for custom cooked AKU3.5 but again every new cooked ROM usually has a thread so you can find answers there.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
1 - I do agree that there is a lot of info about the upgrade process, I just didn't find the answer for what I'm looking for.
2 - I didn't find a post where is stated that the device should be unlock to install the new ROM, but I also din't find the oposite, so my doubt.
3 - It seems that I should try first and if I get the error, go for the alternative method. I woul like to jump this step, but if there isn't other way, well, that's life
4 - Maybe it's a bad interpretation on my side of the wiki post. Porbably only some I-mate based roms need the bottloader upgrade.
thx for the help
Hey people, since it seems to be getting quite popular heres the official thread for the Hermes upgrade guide ive written.
The guide has now moved to a new host so dont forget to update any links you use!!
The HTC Guide
Individual Hermes guides:
Upgrading ROMs
Upgrading Radio stack
SPL Downgrade guide
Easy custom splashscreens*
TCPMP/Coreplayer video encoding*
Upgrading SPL to HardSPL v7 (2.10.olipro)
Downgrading to WM5*
* Currently updating the guides so please check back
Please read the guide word for word and you should be successfull in carrying out the procedures described.
DO NOT pm me if you have already posted in this thread, i WILL NOT answer you if you do!
Enjoy
This Should Be Made A Sticky Or At Least Added To The Sticky That Points To The Helpful Threads.
Cheers
Great guide. this should help the noobs.
Thanks for your work on these.
MrVanX,
This is nice. Though I do not need it anymore, since I had to read the wiki and all the posts to get to where I am now, I am sure it will help reduce some of the noob questions.
I do not regret doing what I had to do, since I learned a lot during the process.
But thanks for taking the time to make this.
Thank you for the guide, I really do appreciate it.
One question though after doing a search and checking the wiki.
I checked my bootloader and it is 1.10 Oli.
I was going to load the HardSPL v3 prior to upgraded to the 1.38 radio.
One of the choices of bootloader is NOT 1.10 Oli...does this mean I do not need to do the HardSPL? Or do I still need it?
Thanks in advance...and if I missed the thread I'm prepared to smack myself across the face 20 times in restitution.
Jim
Newb-Tech-Realtor said:
Thank you for the guide, I really do appreciate it.
One question though after doing a search and checking the wiki.
I checked my bootloader and it is 1.10 Oli.
I was going to load the HardSPL v3 prior to upgraded to the 1.38 radio.
One of the choices of bootloader is NOT 1.10 Oli...does this mean I do not need to do the HardSPL? Or do I still need it?
Thanks in advance...and if I missed the thread I'm prepared to smack myself across the face 20 times in restitution.
Jim
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You will notice in "how to upgrade HardSPL v3" the guide says "if your version is 1.10.oli or 1.11.oli select the BLUE OPTION". When you run the HardSPL v3 installer you select the force sspl option. OK?? (i changed the wording of the guide)
Excellent guides...I've updated my sig with new URLs..
U Da Man!
mrvanx said:
You will notice in "how to upgrade HardSPL v3" the guide says "if your version is 1.10.oli or 1.11.oli select the BLUE OPTION". When you run the HardSPL v3 installer you select the force sspl option. OK?? (i changed the wording of the guide)
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Noted and thank you.
Jim
What a great guide - would have saved me endless trouble when I started upgrading (including my brick - repaired courtesy of Vodafone ) - but then again I've also learned loads the harder way.
Can you just write a guide on Un-Bricking, Cooking Roms, Installing apps, Creating Cabs, Searching, Reading the Wiki etc, etc (Hmmm, now there's a project)
Only kidding, but maybe if we can link this guide and the Unbricking thread to be the first thing a new member sees when they sign up as a member to the forums we may see less 'help I'm a ****wit' threads
Excellent guide!
Just wondering, will you be creating a "downgrade guide" for those who wish to revert everything back to their original state (OS ROM, Radio ROM & bootloader) for warranty purposes?
Thanks!
michaelfoo said:
Excellent guide!
Just wondering, will you be creating a "downgrade guide" for those who wish to revert everything back to their original state (OS ROM, Radio ROM & bootloader) for warranty purposes?
Thanks!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yes, pls create a "downgrade guide" for us newbie in case we need to send in our device that is under warranty.
SPL Link broken?
Hi, it might just be my system but the SPL download link appears to be broken
Martyn
Link fixed, thanks for the heads-up!
Sorry Radio link seems broken too.
Hi, sorry to be a pain but I'm following your advise and going through the guide step by step and can't download the radio.
BTW: The SPL worked a treat, I'm planning on trying the LVMS flavour.
The links for the Radio are all working fine, are you using Winrar?? You need it for opening the radio package.
-----------------------
Bump, guide updated for HardSPL v4
mrvanx said:
Bump, guide updated for HardSPL v4
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Hi Great Works...
But need update main menu...
Flashing individual components:
HardSPL v3
Radio v1.38.00.10
WM6 ROM Upgrade Guides:
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
V4 and not v3
Hi
I'm quite a noob, so I apologize if i ask for something already mentionned.
I'm on SPL1.09 after install of LVSW 03/20.
I want to install HardSPL v4.
- This means only the bootloader files of the rom will be modified. Am I right ?
I need to check the yellow line.
But do I need to check "Is it hardSPL" ? What is this for ?
Then, as I understand, if i install a new ROM with radio, it'll modify the SPL again ?
Thanx
Greg
sticky sweet
Good morning all
Is the first time that i write in a forum, i'll try to explain my problem and i hope that somobody can help me.
I'm working in china and one day i lost my thelephone, so i decided to buy a PDA HTC P3300.But only after some day i saw that some thing was not working, so i'm tring to downgrade a new rom.
Here i had my problem, i followed all the details that i found on internet, also i took some informations and file from this forum to coplete the procedure like Hard SPL and so on, the problem is that when activesync is connected to the device i launch for example Hard SPL to upgrade it but after the program showed me the version installated and i said upgrade, i waited for a while and then the progam told me to check the usb connection (i tried whit 3 different cable) ERROR 260.The same thing happened when i tried to change the ROM.
CAN SOMEBODY HELP ME PLEASE?? I NEED THE PDA ALSO FOR WORK.
Thank you everybody!
You might have better luck asking for assistance on this subject in the Artemis upgrading forum:
http://forum.xda-developers.com/forumdisplay.php?f=318
andreazzo said:
Good morning all
Is the first time that i write in a forum, i'll try to explain my problem and i hope that somobody can help me.
I'm working in china and one day i lost my thelephone, so i decided to buy a PDA HTC P3300.But only after some day i saw that some thing was not working, so i'm tring to downgrade a new rom.
Here i had my problem, i followed all the details that i found on internet, also i took some informations and file from this forum to coplete the procedure like Hard SPL and so on, the problem is that when activesync is connected to the device i launch for example Hard SPL to upgrade it but after the program showed me the version installated and i said upgrade, i waited for a while and then the progam told me to check the usb connection (i tried whit 3 different cable) ERROR 260.The same thing happened when i tried to change the ROM.
CAN SOMEBODY HELP ME PLEASE?? I NEED THE PDA ALSO FOR WORK.
Thank you everybody!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Hard Spl??? For the Artmes?? Mate are you trying to brick your device cause it seems you are doing a pretty good job of it too,Hard Spl is NOT for the p3300 it is for the Hermes and Trinity which are two very very different models of HTC. Please make an effort to read the Wiki before you start messing with the phone.Try flashing the t-mobile stock rom FOR THE ARTEMIS(WITHOUT THE HARD SPL) and hopefully it may work also find out from your buyer if it is CID unlocked though i doubt wether they would know.
Check in Settings - Connections - USB to PC that the USB advanced network functionality is not ticked. That's caught me out in the past after making changes.
This is assuming that others in this forum are correct and you've not yet made a brick using the wrong model. Good luck!
One problem more on rom
Thanks all for your answers
sorry but i still had one problem more
As arvind09 said i read almost all Wiki before do some other stupid things, i downloaded anhoter rom from this page:
http://wiki.xda-developers.com/index.php?pagename=Artemis_Upgrades
but the rom that i found is HTC rom 1.12.405.101, and is not working on my artemis, i looked in my system and i saw that i need this ROM 1.13.110.101
wich is not downloadable form that page. (AM I RIGHT?)
May i know where i can find the rom T-mobile 1.13.110.101 ?
If i wrong some other things could you advise me.
Thank you again and sorry for my incompetence
Bye
andreazzo said:
Thanks all for your answers
sorry but i still had one problem more
As arvind09 said i read almost all Wiki before do some other stupid things, i downloaded anhoter rom from this page:
http://wiki.xda-developers.com/index.php?pagename=Artemis_Upgrades
but the rom that i found is HTC rom 1.12.405.101, and is not working on my artemis, i looked in my system and i saw that i need this ROM 1.13.110.101
wich is not downloadable form that page. (AM I RIGHT?)
May i know where i can find the rom T-mobile 1.13.110.101 ?
If i wrong some other things could you advise me.
Thank you again and sorry for my incompetence
Bye
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Try the thread by bdangol in this forum,he has posted the link to the 1.13.110.101 rom,all the best.
arvind09 said:
Try the thread by bdangol in this forum,he has posted the link to the 1.13.110.101 rom,all the best.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
T-Mobile Here
Did you buy it in China?
If you bought the phone in China, there will be 2 versions. 1 for the chinese market (han huo) and the others are for other markets (usually europe) then flashed with the chinese rom (shui huo). As far as I know the chinese versions aren't locked and the foreign market versions musn't be locked either due to the fact that they have to put on the chinese rom
Hi all, new to all this.
I have spent the last 6 days scanning the forums and wiki about upgrading to the offical rom for the trinity to WM6.
I have tried super cid and sim unlocks as well as Hard SPL and many other tricks and advice from users.
None of them seem to work.
Does anyone have a real idea (a proper technical answer) as to why the progress stops @ 28% on this update and not on any of the cooked roms?
I would really appreciate some help on this.....
Thanks all
walterjm
search on top is your friend
udK said:
search on top is your friend
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I know, but I have been using this for Six day's and tried all avenues. The reason to ask here is one of frustration.
But thanks anyhow....
my guess is something about the ipl or spl, since after you remove those and put it in a modified RUU it works..
racerx_ said:
my guess is something about the ipl or spl, since after you remove those and put it in a modified RUU it works..
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Hey thanks for the tip will keep looking and learn how to modify RUU file...
Cheers
walterjm
racerx_ said:
my guess is something about the ipl or spl, since after you remove those and put it in a modified RUU it works..
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
OK I am completely stupid. Can anyone point me in the correct direction on how to modify RUU files.
Please please please...
I have the following in the bootloader menu
IPL-1.00
SPL-1.30.Olipro
Should I be able to load the official WM6 rom from HTC?
yeah, technically...
why don't you try the official rom without SPL?
You can get it here:
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=324744
racerx_ said:
yeah, technically...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
ok I found the answer....
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=321182&page=7
..........................................
http://rapidshare.com/files/47349234...nospl.rar.html
First flash hard spl before flashing this rom!
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=299659
And dont hold me responsible if this update fails for you.
It worked fine for me.
Spl and Ipl are removed , and splash screens changed to htc screens.
Thats all , so it still has latest radio and extrom.
I advise you to soft reset when you first boot your trin and see the screen that says customization will start in 3 seconds.
...................................................................................
this is the only way I could do it. Something is no quite correct with the
I think the guys at this thread need to revisit there ideas......
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=299659
because it does not work ...
cheers walterjm
[email protected] said:
why don't you try the official rom without SPL?
You can get it here:
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=324744
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Hey I was typing the response as your did also....
I think this is what I did. Works great. Still seems to be a problem.
Where can I learn more about spl, ipl, hard spl and all those technical terms...???
cheers walterjm
http://wiki.xda-developers.com/index.php?pagename=HTC_Trinity
XDADeveloperWiki - HTC_Trinity
Also search with google - go to advanced search and search http://forum.xda-developers.com for the above terms - you'll learn lots!
I cant update my htc diamond rom it stops at 0%, what i have to do?
please some one teel me instroction..
Common, how do you expect anybody can give you good advice when you provide so little information?
Did you run hard spl succesfully on your device?
What ROM are you trying to flash?
Anyway, i think you need to read a little more, cuz there's a whole topic bout the 'update stops at 0%' over here:
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=409425
Other, very usefull information can be found here:
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=608668
and here:
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=416211
Nirak said:
Common, how do you expect anybody can give you good advice when you provide so little information?
Did you run hard spl succesfully on your device?
What ROM are you trying to flash?
Anyway, i think you need to read a little more, cuz there's a whole topic bout the 'update stops at 0%' over here:
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=409425
Other, very usefull information can be found here:
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=608668
and here:
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=416211
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
myenglish not wery good, but i cant update any rom wich is on tshis forum, i con update only original, and what is hard spl?
jkristaps said:
myenglish not wery good, but i cant update any rom wich is on tshis forum, i con update only original, and what is hard spl?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
HardSPL is a way to unlock your phone so that you can flash another ROM to it. If you don't run HardSPL then you won't be able to flash any other rom then the original one.
Plz start reading the links i gave you; i'm sure you'll figure it out as we all had to do at some point.
He, maybe, just maybe this is more helpfull to you: http://www.htcmania.com/portal.php
Don't ask me questions about the contents of that forum, cuz i don't speak a word spanish , but i knew the forum excisted