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Hi everyone.
HTC Desire is being found in my country better than other android phones, but I have a serious problem with its bad video recording framerate (15). I tried to download a video sample, and it was really bad as I thought (no offense to the fans ).
My phone's video recording ability is important for me, so please don't give answers like: this is a phone, go get a camcorder, ...
Some people say that it will have HD 720P support in future firmware updates, but I wanna know is there a plan to improve the framerate as well?
Thanks.
As the phone records direct to the SD card I would suggest trying a faster class of card and see if that affects things at all.
Sent from my HTC Desire using Tapatalk
mahi58 said:
Hi everyone.
HTC Desire is being found in my country better than other android phones, but I have a serious problem with its bad video recording framerate (15). I tried to download a video sample, and it was really bad as I thought (no offense to the fans ).
My phone's video recording ability is important for me, so please don't give answers like: this is a phone, go get a camcorder, ...
Some people say that it will have HD 720P support in future firmware updates, but I wanna know is there a plan to improve the framerate as well?
Thanks.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
the desire already has 720p recording, but keep in mind its limited by its hardware, 1 ghz isnt alot to encode HD and i know the iphone has better HD recording but i think that has somthing to do with its improved gpu, recording at lower resolution is flawless so why not do that?
Galaxy S and iPhone 4 are the first phones that are likely to have the processing power to record 720p with decent framerates. Desire just isn't as powerful, no matter how it's optimized it won't be perfect, ever.
However, even those two phones (probably) don't benefit much in terms of real video quality by just upping the recorded resolution. Trying to fit even a BAD 720p-capable sensor in a phone form factor isn't going to be a reality for a couple years or so, I'd estimate. Right now you get lots of extra pixels but the picture doesn't actually look any better since the sensor is too small to properly capture such high resolution.
It's something like the "megapixel war" that went on (and continues to some extent) between the major camera vendors. There's not more space to use a better sensor, they just make the sensor try to interpret the light better. Now it's phone vendors claiming they can do 720p when in reality the sensors they're using are probably capable of "real" 480i resolution at best.
But you can see the result... take two shots on the phone of your choice, one at 3mp or so and one at the maximum, then try blowing up the 3mp one to the 10mp one's dimensions and compare them side by side. The resized one looks a bit blurry? Now apply a good professional sharpening filter such as Neat Image. Voila, they're all but identical, just one has lots more garbage data in the form of grain where there was none in real life. The sensor is so tiny there's literally just not enough photons hitting it to do anything but interpolate most of the data, even in daytime outdoors.
I know you said you don't want me to say "just buy a camcorder", but honestly that's the only solution if you want an actual image quality difference. An honest camcorder can give you a million times the feature set and record decent audio too.
Maybe check out the Canon HF100... I think that's what it's called. I have the previous year's model and it's outstanding value. Record true 1080p @ 30fps, and it's so clear you can capture individual frames from it and it looks better than any cameraphone. Takes competent stills too, and I think the most recent model has 20x optical zoom. It's like... 25% larger than an empty toilet paper roll and a little more squarish.
So do you recommend setting to 480?
Thank you guys.
I bought a Google-HTC nexus one today D). I had to buy a used cell phone because of the android phone shortage in my country, and I had to buy it today, so I wasn't able to read any of your posts; but some interesting comments have been posted:
AndroHero
You mean there is a video recording mode for desire, which records in lower resolution, but gives better framerates?
If so, desire would have been a flawless choice for me! Why isn't this mentioned anywhere?
nawoa
Very interesting ideas, thank you.
I have noticed the difference between true 720P videos and the "claimed" ones which are being recorded by cell phones, and, frankly, the difference is obvious.
But still, if you watch the video samples from desire and some competitors (from GSMArena or somewhere), you will confirm that there's a huge difference, which is not being caused by the low resolution, but by the poor framerate in desire.
Desire's video sample is disappointing...
But if it's possible to record in lower resolution and better framerate, then desire would have been a better choice than a second hand nexus one.
Hardware not capable? 1Ghz not fast enough?
Nexus one 720p @27fps!!!
Edit:Video
nawoa said:
Galaxy S and iPhone 4 are the first phones that are likely to have the processing power to record 720p with decent framerates.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
IPhone uses its GPU, that's why it performs so well. Guess it's a driver issue. If the desire were to utilize the GPU, the results would be far better.
iPhone and Galaxy S share the same CPU/GPU chip, and as you say, yes it probably leverages the GPU to help encode the data more efficiently. Even if not, it's a more efficient chip which doesn't just mean it's smaller and uses less battery, but it's actually more powerful despite running at the same clock speed.
For example, I had an experience when I was upgrading my computer last year, going from a 65nm CPU to a 45nm CPU with identical architecture, cache, etc. Running at the same clock speed I get ~20% or more of a performance boost just due to the better efficiency.
I can't say how well that carries over to this situation since I'm sure there are more improvements in the transition from "snapdragon" to "hummingbird" than just the newer manufacturing process and more powerful GPU, but you can be sure the CPU gains a significant speed advantage from the lower node even before whatever other enhancements have been made.
"Hardware not capable? 1Ghz not fast enough?
Nexus one 720p @27fps!!!"
I'm not even going to look. 27 FPS isn't any kind of standard and if indeed that framerate is being achieved it's because there is extremely good lighting. Please introduce me to the world you live in where everyone and everything is always in ideal studio lighting... Aside from that I know without clicking the link that it will be terrible-looking.
"But if it's possible to record in lower resolution and better framerate, then desire would have been a better choice than a second hand nexus one."
I don't mean to belittle you but doesn't it go without saying that there is a lower-resolution video mode available when 720p is only just being unlocked in the most recent firmware? Whatever the case, N1 and Desire have identical hardware, if anything you might have a screen you like better than if you bought a Desire today.
Anyway, yes in my opinion you'd normally want to record at a lower resolution. I haven't done a thorough quality comparison but I'd guess you're not going to get much benefit from going above 320x240 for video. The truth is harsh, isn't it? Probably no harm in using the highest image size but it's not going to deliver miracles, especially considering the shutter lag and lack of any kind of image stabilization system.
But on the upside, your videos will have a smaller filesize, the framerate will stay consistent (at least if there is adequate lighting), and as I said earlier there is absolutely no real-world quality difference except that you'll get less battery usage and video noise when recording and playing back lower-resolution video.
Keep in mind, I bought a Desire and I love it. I even think the camera and video is fine. Just keep your expectations reasonable and realize that you need an actual camera to take good pictures/video. It's for Youtube, Facebook, and that kind of thing, not wedding photos.
Canon HF100 (IIRC) is a solid prosumer choice, or if you want something more compact but still versatile you might look at the Sony DSC-TX5, which is very durable and even waterproof to boot. It was just replaced with a newer (but not significantly different) version, so you can get it pretty cheap too. It offers quite good still and video quality (REAL 720p) considering it's like 15mm thick and even has some voodoo real 5x optical zoom system despite not having a moving lens on the front.
This thread's piqued my curiosity a bit, I'm going to try to do a semi-scientific study to determine what the best settings are for the camera.
I can't say exactly how you'll have to configure your new N1 since I'm using the Sense camera app, but you can probably still have an improvement by trying to modify settings in a similar way.
This is very preliminary and I don't have daylight to work with, I'll get into it more tomorrow, but so far:
Contrast is best at its default setting, 0. I'd prefer a -0.5 but no such option exists.
Saturation should be reduced to -1, this will help lessen the strength of noise and also gives somewhat more realistic color.
Sharpness should be reduced to -1, this again will help reduce noise and eliminates the majority of the sharpening artifacts. Going down to -2 helps a bit more but the loss of detail probably isn't worth it.
Brightness should be left at 0, it operates in mysterious ways and doesn't seem to be very helpful regardless of how it's set.
The ideal video capture resolution is 640x480. 320x240 doesn't appear to bring a framerate improvement so there's not really much sense unless you're limited by storage. All capture sizes besides 320x240 and 640x480 operate by simply cropping the image and offer no positive effects that I can see. 720p may add a superficial amount of detail but at the cost of an unsteady framerate and much greater encoding/decoding load (1280x720 vs 640x480, or 921,600 pixels per frame vs 307,200).
Similarly, taking widescreen stills simply crops the top and bottom and results in no quality difference to the part of the full frame that's actually recorded. You're probably best off recording in the sensor's native 4:3 aspect ratio and then cropping them to your taste on your home computer.
The ideal video capture codec is MPEG4 - H.264 offers a nice reduction in filesize but uses too low of a bitrate, resulting in worse quality during fast movement. It is also more work to encode and decode, hurting your battery life.
Obviously don't use zoom for any reason since it's just cropping and resizing with speed as the only consideration. You'll get much better results doing the same thing on your home computer.
Due to the low sensor quality, there's not a whole lot of difference between 5 and 3 megapixel shots, but there's no harm in going with 5mp. The biggest difference is the filesize. Taking a picture of the same subject, my 5mp shots ranged from 2.96mb to 2.38mb, while the 3mp ones were 1.22mb to 0.76mb.
I'd like to revise my earlier statement that the processor isn't capable of encoding 720p30 in realtime. It's now my opinion that the problem is just the camera firmware trying to make sense of the idea that you're asking it to pull usable pixel data for a 1280x720 frame, 30 times a second, from such a tiny sensor. To compensate for the lack of light information, it's forced to reduce the framerate or else the image will turn into a mess of noise. It's probably being a bit too conservative, but not by a lot. The fault lies with the sensor, not the CPU... I think.
Finally, *something* I did seemed to significantly reduce the framerate, or rather, the quality of recording high-motion video. This might be something peculiar to the rom I'm running, or it could be completely in my head, but I think I changed something when I was messing with the various settings and it had a noticeable negative effect.
It's late here now so I'll pick up in the morning but my current wild guesses are:
-Capturing full-frame is more difficult than capturing cropped widescreen, or vice-versa?
-Face detection processing adds too much latency to the recording?
-Flicker reduction should be taken off auto for best performance?
-Custom filtering settings (brightness/sharpness, etc) slow recording down?
-How the camera was focused reduced/increased the encoding difficulty?
-Sharpness settings increased/decreased the amount of frame data needing to be encoded?
-...Or I screwed something up in SetCPU? No... I don't... think so... but it's pretty late. Hmm...
I'll pick up tomorrow. Someone's probably already figured out the perfect settings but I'm pro at being redundant.
The 480p is flawless?
Come on ... It is OK-ish, but not flawless. Especially indoor, even with good lighting still mediocre.
Multimedia is one of the weakest in Android, hopefully Gingerbread will correct this.
AndroHero said:
the desire already has 720p recording, but keep in mind its limited by its hardware, 1 ghz isnt alot to encode HD and i know the iphone has better HD recording but i think that has somthing to do with its improved gpu, recording at lower resolution is flawless so why not do that?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You could try switching to 800 ISO in settings camera mode, then switch back to camcorder mode. I noticed a considerable fps boost even in low light conditions.
I don't mean to belittle you but doesn't it go without saying that there is a lower-resolution video mode available when 720p is only just being unlocked in the most recent firmware? Whatever the case, N1 and Desire have identical hardware, if anything you might have a screen you like better than if you bought a Desire today.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Before buying nexus one, I checked out desire's specifications in its GSMArena's page, and it said:
Video: Yes, WVGA (800x480 pixels) @ 15fps
So I thought its the only video recording mode that the phone has (I'm not experienced with modern phones). I wasn't expecting a cell phone to have different video capture modes like a digicam/camcorder.
Then, I downloaded a video sample that was being recorded in daylight, but was really disappointing, and the framerate was exactly 15.
And, in my experince, if you buy products, specially high tech products like modern phones relying on the informations that (you think) "go without saying" you're going to be serioulsly punished by your mistakes.
You can only rely on facts...
By the way, thanks for the experiments.
There is some work done in the developement section to optimize HTC camera 720p framerate. A guy obtained 29fps in good lighting (not perfect) but he's still working on it. Funny part is that he blew his desire while testing it.
Check this:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ynB0M9NeVCE
Regarding the current state, a good sd card can help with the occasional stuttering, or if you can live with AOSP roms, you probably will get a couple fps more. Otherwise you are confined to good lighting to have something on the good side of 20fps.
some examples from my phone:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S6KuPCn6_2M
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ugjI5ygsXzQ
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ssFnQsdz0DE
That change the ISO on the still camera seems a good tip
Marcus2388 said:
You could try switching to 800 ISO in settings camera mode, then switch back to camcorder mode. I noticed a considerable fps boost even in low light conditions.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Wow, that's really good tip!
when you increase your ISO your picture quality gets poor.
it helps to make videos faster and smooth but with no quality.
Ive just ordered my new Micro Sd card class 10 card... let it come and i'll let you know if something good happens...
malikahsan said:
when you increase your ISO your picture quality gets poor.
it helps to make videos faster and smooth but with no quality.
Ive just ordered my new Micro Sd card class 10 card... let it come and i'll let you know if something good happens...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I'll disagree about poor quality - it just gets a little worse, even in indoor lightning, but you get an acceptable video, compared to the "very creepy slide show" in auto-ISO mode.
Besides the average framerate, which is probably more due to the lens and partially to the software, isn't the stuttering problem caused by an aggressive datarate when writing to the sd ? If you compare cyanogen 720p recording to HTC, quality isn't really different, but the data-rate codec probably is, and that's why even with a class 2 you avoid stuttering in cyanogen (OD and Defrost too).
Sorry if I up this thread, I found a micro sd card A-Data class 6 with good price, this micro SD can fix the problem recording video a 720p?
Thanks to all
Coming from M7 I know it's camera limitations and one thing I was expecting that shifting away from Ultra Pixel sensor would mean a much better performance. Unfortunately looking at the images from Barcelona I was scratching my head if what I saw was M9 images. The lower light photos in my opinion look quite bad. Lots of artifact, nasty noise, blotches of unprocessed information. So to say about normal daylight images though not as bad but still below average. So what's your take on this matter? Will the software update sort it out , is it worth waiting for couple of months? I don't think I am going to upgrade to M9 which I sincerely want to. Camera is deal breaker for me.
I honestly wouldn't base an opinion of this device with its current software situation, its gonna get hot, this is a pre release model. Also I bet its been on charge all day with the screen on, tester after tester messing with it. Not to mention the kernel and rom probably aren't optimized to deal with heavy load, I can see HTC making this a great device with further updates, I look forward to having it.
nebulaoperator said:
Coming from M7 I know it's camera limitations and one thing I was expecting that shifting away from Ultra Pixel sensor would mean a much better performance. Unfortunately looking at the images from Barcelona I was scratching my head if what I saw was M9 images. The lower light photos in my opinion look quite bad. Lots of artifact, nasty noise, blotches of unprocessed information. So to say about normal daylight images though not as bad but still below average. So what's your take on this matter? Will the software update sort it out , is it worth waiting for couple of months? I don't think I am going to upgrade to M9 which I sincerely want to. Camera is deal breaker for me.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You're not the only one making a question out of the camera performance of the M9. The big issues with the new sensor is the increased resolution of 20mp vs the 4mp on the HTC One M8, which (as you noticed) makes images in low-light conditions quite bad. This has nothing to do with HTC though, it's the same story for everyone who cramps in such a high resolution in a sensor that is way to small. A normal DSLR camera (Canon 600D, Nikon D7100 etc.) struggles with the same thing although they got a massively bigger sensor to cope with the resolution. Based on this, I guess they may be able to fix the daylight quality quite a bit along the way. The low-light however, not as convinced due to the issues I said above. They may very well be able to make it BETTER, but not as good as it was with the M8 in my mind. Just look at the Note 4 and Z3 (and Z4 I guess) with massive resolutions on their cameras aswell, the Note 4 (16mp) is brilliant in daylight although it's worse in low-light compared to the iPhone 6 (which got a 8mp sensor). It will get better along the way, but I don't think we will ever see the M9 do low-light shots without some of the issues you asked about, like artifacts, noise and details failing to stand out. Although I do hope I am wrong about it
I hope Jonny too but I can't entirely rely on hope here. Can you give me reasonable example of how HTC improved camera in the past? I am not here to bash the brand that I love but I want to be reasonable. I still have purple fringe on my M7 for that reason I sent it back just a couple of days ago.
n3tr0m said:
You're not the only one making a question out of the camera performance of the M9. The big issues with the new sensor is the increased resolution of 20mp vs the 4mp on the HTC One M8, which (as you noticed) makes images in low-light conditions quite bad. This has nothing to do with HTC though, it's the same story for everyone who cramps in such a high resolution in a sensor that is way to small. A normal DSLR camera (Canon 600D, Nikon D7100 etc.) struggles with the same thing although they got a massively bigger sensor to cope with the resolution. Based on this, I guess they may be able to fix the daylight quality quite a bit along the way. The low-light however, not as convinced due to the issues I said above. They may very well be able to make it BETTER, but not as good as it was with the M8 in my mind. Just look at the Note 4 and Z3 (and Z4 I guess) with massive resolutions on their cameras aswell, the Note 4 (16mp) is brilliant in daylight although it's worse in low-light compared to the iPhone 6 (which got a 8mp sensor). It will get better along the way, but I don't think we will ever see the M9 do low-light shots without some of the issues you asked about, like artifacts, noise and details failing to stand out. Although I do hope I am wrong about it
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
As far as I know M9 has Toshiba sensor which being used for the Nokia High end Lumias which perform quite well. The other thing is I can set my camera permanently to 16 Mp or even less so to relief sensor from strain if that helps to get a better image. It's perfectly fine to have 8MP, personally speaking. For instance Iphone 6 Plus currently outperforms pretty much most of the phones in the market.
nebulaoperator said:
As far as I know M9 has Toshiba sensor which being used for the Nokia High end Lumias which perform quite well. The other thing is I can set my camera permanently to 16 Mp or even less so to relief sensor from strain if that helps to get a better image. It's perfectly fine to have 8MP, personally speaking. For instance Iphone 6 Plus currently outperforms pretty much most of the phones in the market.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Sure it is developed by Toshiba, i am not sure if its the same they use in the Lumia series though. The fact that "reducing" the camera down to 16mp or even less to make the images better is something I doubt highly especially with a mobile. I dont see how that would change the outcome when it's still a 20mp physically in there. Might be wrong here, but I don't see right away how that would make images in low-light any better. In my experience with the Z1 it didn't help much dumping the resolution from 20mp down to 8mp (which was the auto-mode setting). Another thing I see as a potential issue for HTC compared to Sony is the fact that Sony makes and develops their sensor themself, and that should make it easier for them to optimize it and make it better. HTC on the other hand does not make it's own sensor and has "learn" or whatever I should say the Toshiba sensor compared to Sony who made them by themself. That should, at least in my eyes, give Sony an advantage in the optimization part. Which they never figured out properly in the Z1 (and Z2 & Z3?) as far as I know.
Let me look in the future..
*starts rubbing my Crystal balls...*
.....
It's getting warmed....
Okay I am seeing something...
The answer for which you are looking for lies within you. You may not know it now but you will in the near future. The key is to follow your heart and don't make weird threads on xda.
Sent from my HTC One_M8 using Tapatalk
I am looking forward to the M9 as i currently own a M7. To the point, after M7 came out nokia came out with Lumia 925, which had 8MP sensor and took better low light photos than the UltraPixel, One would think that in the last 2 years Htc would have gotten better or improved the MP count of the UltraPixel sensor, but that didn't happen.
As far as the current 16MP sensor is concerned, i hope that reducing the resolution slightly say 8MP and increasing the exposure/shutter time would atleast be able to provide results similar to UltraPixle in a 8MP resolution.
n3tr0m said:
Sure it is developed by Toshiba, i am not sure if its the same they use in the Lumia series though. The fact that "reducing" the camera down to 16mp or even less to make the images better is something I doubt highly especially with a mobile. I dont see how that would change the outcome when it's still a 20mp physically in there. Might be wrong here, but I don't see right away how that would make images in low-light any better. In my experience with the Z1 it didn't help much dumping the resolution from 20mp down to 8mp (which was the auto-mode setting). Another thing I see as a potential issue for HTC compared to Sony is the fact that Sony makes and develops their sensor themself, and that should make it easier for them to optimize it and make it better. HTC on the other hand does not make it's own sensor and has "learn" or whatever I should say the Toshiba sensor compared to Sony who made them by themself. That should, at least in my eyes, give Sony an advantage in the optimization part. Which they never figured out properly in the Z1 (and Z2 & Z3?) as far as I know.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I am looking at some oversampling info on wikipedia. Thats exactly what Nokia did with pure view ,for instance, combining pixels into cluster to make one better pixel with improved characteristics . Then technically speaking reducing mp size can enable sensor to perform better. Thanks for bringing it out about Sony. Your thoughts so much parallel of mine about they inability to nail their camera performance taking into account they sensor plus all experience. This could due to the reason they don't actually work close enough to Sony photographic department and more or less on they own. Not sharing the love between themselve From my observation it's a lot about soft optimization, as you mention in your post , and here I can not to finish my post without mentioning 1+1 camera transformation that occurred in period from release date up until now. Camera performance is very good.
RaXxaa said:
I am looking forward to the M9 as i currently own a M7. To the point, after M7 came out nokia came out with Lumia 925, which had 8MP sensor and took better low light photos than the UltraPixel, One would think that in the last 2 years Htc would have gotten better or improved the MP count of the UltraPixel sensor, but that didn't happen.
As far as the current 16MP sensor is concerned, i hope that reducing the resolution slightly say 8MP and increasing the exposure/shutter time would atleast be able to provide results similar to UltraPixle in a 8MP resolution.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
If they do something like Nokia did with oversampling pixel it might work ( just an idea) but taking into account they didn't succeed in ultra pixel technology , given two years, I can only hope. I don't really know much about new toshiba sensor and what is it capable of.
badboy47 said:
Let me look in the future..
*starts rubbing my Crystal balls...*
.....
It's getting warmed....
Okay I am seeing something...
The answer for which you are looking for lies within you. You may not know it now but you will in the near future. The key is to follow your heart and don't make weird threads on xda.
Sent from my HTC One_M8 using Tapatalk
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
"Weird "is a strong word but taking into account the amount of humour you used in your reply I take it lightly with a smile on my face
nebulaoperator said:
I am looking at some oversampling info on wikipedia. Thats exactly what Nokia did with pure view ,for instance, combining pixels into cluster to make one better pixel with improved characteristics . Then technically speaking reducing mp size can enable sensor to perform better. Thanks for bringing it out about Sony. Your thoughts so much parallel of mine about they inability to nail their camera performance taking into account they sensor plus all experience. This could due to the reason they don't actually work close enough to Sony photographic department and more or less on they own. Not sharing the love between themselve From my observation it's a lot about soft optimization, as you mention in your post , and here I can not to finish my post without mentioning 1+1 camera transformation that occurred in period from release date up until now. Camera performance is very good.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Alrighty then. Thats an awesome feature! Really hope that HTC can make the same magic as Nokia did with their Lumia series based on what you found out on Wikipedia etc. I will be more than pleased if the camera on the M9 outperforms the camera placed in the Z4, that should tell everybody that HTC did an amazing job optimizing it when they beat Sony and their own sensor
I've looked at some comparison photo's from gsmarena and personally I don't think it's much worse than the iPhone 6 shots they posted.
Think the day light pictures will probably be great, but the low light ones may be not so much. Without being any company's fanboy there is a great chance that the M9 camera won't be the best.
I have no idea what HTC did but images are getting very good ...at least in this series : http://www.sogi.com.tw/mobile/articles/6239319-HTC+One+M9、M8兩代旗艦機相機實拍對決！
What feature - functionality you feel is missing or is a big gain over you previous phone in your Moto Z Play?
I am yet to get the Z Play and currently having Moto Z 2nd gen which will go in exchange one the shipment arrives.
Missing things:
The things I could get from reviews that which I feel I will miss over my current phone are:
1. Form factor: Moto X 2 has got one of the best screen to form ratio. It has got thin bezzles at side as well as top and bottom. Z play has got massive bezzles at top and bottom making it a massive device over the X 2 without gaining significant screen area.
2. Noise cancellation mics: Moto X 2 has got 4 mics whereas Z Play seem to have 3. I always get crispy audio quality while recording videos. Never got any wind noise even in outdoor video. I doubt if Z Play will be able to do the same.
3. Infrared sensors for Moto Display: I can wake up Moto display withou touching it even in dark becasue of the infrared sensor on the face of it. Mot display feature is there in Z Play as well but can the display be woken up in the dark?
4. Attentive Display: Screen won't dim or shut off in X2 when users keeps seeing onto it. Didn't find any source mentioning if its available in Z Play.
5. Extruded bumper protectors on both speaker grills to protect screen: Not available in Z Play, even in any other phone that X2. And they have really helped in my case during few drops and also save the screen from getting scratched.
6. Loudspeaker audio quality: Its loud and crispy clear n X2. I have even stopped using hands-free audio system speaker feature in my car and feel the phone's speaker is enough. But the Z Play has got mixed kind of opinions on loudspeaker. Few even say the same speaker component is shared between earpiece and loudspeaker. If so then its very bad.
Gains:
1. Battery Life
2. Camera Quality
3. Fingerprint sensor Never used any screen lock so not a real gain but maybe I start using protection since I find fingerprint unlocking more convenient than entering pins or patterns.
4. Moto mods compatibility Not really interested at the moment so not a gain for me.
Overall I feel my loses are more than the gains.
What you guys feel when you compare the Z Play with your previous phones?
I changed from a Moto G 1st Gen so quite a lot of gains.
from x style to z play
loose stereo speaker, gain JBL speaker
loose 21mp camera, gain professional camera
loose 2k mon, gain battery life
loose 5.5 inch screen, gain hand grip
but i m using both for daily driver, so no concern lol
I am coming from OnePlus One to Moto Z Play
What I MIss
CyanogenMod
Developer Support for device (although this will pick up with time, but not like OPO)
Sultanxda
Loud speaker volume (Moto Z Play has a really low volume)
Notification LED
What I Gained
AMOLED screen
Fingerprint sensor
Monster battery life
Better camera (Laser Autofocus)
Metallic body
Dual Sim with VoLTE (Indian version)
Front camera flash
I come from a Moto G 2014, so every single thing is a gain. Except for the lack of stereo speakers. But it has a much better battery life, a much better screen, much better camera, much better headphone output, much better construction and a much better SoC. Can't complain at all.
Moto X Pure > Moto Z Play
Missing: QHD display, stereo spearkers, CDMA compatibility
Gain: Super Amoled display, Moto Mods, crazy battery life, usb type c, similar performing but more efficient processor, finger print sensor, laser autofocus
Edit: LTE works flawlessly on the Moto Z Play.
Jack Sparrow xda said:
5. Extruded bumper protectors on both speaker grills to protect screen: Not available in Z Play, even in any other phone that X2. And they have really helped in my case during few drops and also save the screen from getting scratched.
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Click to collapse
Hello moto. Moto x pure has speakers grills that protect glass when faced down. Willing to bet the pure has louder speakers. And are you sure it had 4 noise cancelling mics? Sometimes when a phone has multiple mics they serve different purposes and moto isn't known for the best noise cancellation. iPhone and phones that use audience tend to do very well than Qualcomm's on chip offering.
@rbiter said:
Hello moto. Moto x pure has speakers grills that protect glass when faced down. Willing to bet the pure has louder speakers. And are you sure it had 4 noise cancelling mics? Sometimes when a phone has multiple mics they serve different purposes and moto isn't known for the best noise cancellation. iPhone and phones that use audience tend to do very well than Qualcomm's on chip offering.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
As per the specs I remember, Moto X 2nd gen (2014 version having 801 krait) has 4 mics and they are to help better noise cancelation as well as stereo recording.
I always got great life like audio quality in my videos recorded through this phone without any interfering wind noise etc like what we usually get when record video on most of the phones and cameras. Though i haven't been on other side of my X2 so can't tell how does it sound but never heard any complaints from other people hearing me.
I don't think iPhones have good mic setup or any cutting edge tech. One of my friend whom i regularly talk has iPhone6 and I struggle many a times hearing him compard to many other people having other phones whome I regulrly talk. Even network reception is not good on his iP6 and he keeps swithing service providers.
Sent from my XT1092 using Tapatalk
@rbiter said:
...and moto isn't known for the best noise cancellation....
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Click to collapse
this is very wrong
motorola started with noise cancelation in their phones many years before anyone else (in past, they called it crystal talk)
not to mention Bluetooth headsets which are always top notch regarding noise cancelation
Just because they started it doesn't mean it is great in their phones. And wasn't talking about Bluetooth. Last Motorola Bluetooth earpiece I bought many many moons ago stopped working after 3 months. And it wasn't cheap.
---------- Post added at 12:24 PM ---------- Previous post was at 12:21 PM ----------
Jack Sparrow xda said:
As per the specs I remember, Moto X 2nd gen (2014 version having 801 krait) has 4 mics and they are to help better noise cancelation as well as stereo recording.
I always got great life like audio quality in my videos recorded through this phone without any interfering wind noise etc like what we usually get when record video on most of the phones and cameras. Though i haven't been on other side of my X2 so can't tell how does it sound but never heard any complaints from other people hearing me.
I don't think iPhones have good mic setup or any cutting edge tech. One of my friend whom i regularly talk has iPhone6 and I struggle many a times hearing him compard to many other people having other phones whome I regulrly talk. Even network reception is not good on his iP6 and he keeps swithing service providers.
Sent from my XT1092 using Tapatalk
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
iPhone noise cancelation is a mixed bag. Wind noise is harder to cut. Also, placmemt and type of mic used. And iPhone still uses a very low bitrate when recording videos. Eager to see if the lg v20 lives up to its promise of clear recording ecen at high dB.
Since I'm still using my 2013 Moto X, anything is an upgrade.
Gain
- battery life. Coming from a 2 year old Note 4 that could barely get me to lunch, I was amazed yesterday to get from 6am to 3am with 40% batter remaining. Moderate use throughout the day, bit of gaming, bit of surfing etc.
Missing
- Miracast/ Screen mirroring. I used this all the time with my Note and Roku. I have no idea how to watch Kodi now so any advice would be gladly received.
Cheers
Battery life is only a hair worse than note4, but sometimes better. I got 6h58m SOT first full charge. 5.5h second charge in a more demanding environment but also had 15% left. Exceeded my expectations for battery and some might do better. Does screen sharing work for the above poster. Haven't tried it yet.
too big display for me, so maybe I will change it back too iPhone 6 xD
also I don't like "shh", which you can hear time by time when music or other sounds are on the low volume level
Love this phone
Coming from note 5
lost
1. Bigger screen and better resolution.
2.Best camera I have used on mobile phone.
3.Note 5 aesthetics are top notch.
gained
1. Battery Life no more 3hrs on screen time.
2. Fingerprint sensor way better than note 5.
3.Expanded storage through micro sd.
4.No att samsung bloatware
Overall the battery life on this phone just makes me love it more than any previous phone owned. Plus moto software it always on point form me :good: Also forgot to way less lag even with less processing power than note 5
Lost: RAM and a few steps on the camera quality scale. Dash charging.
Gained: Battery life
I came from a OnePlus 3. The drop in RAM is noticeable. I feel like almost every time I try to multitask and switch back to an app it refreshes on me. Also been very disappointed in the camera quality on the MZP. Battery life (my #1 priority) has made up for those 2 faults though.
Cons compared to Nexus 6:
-Had a slightly better camera in HDR mode. Particularly because of OIS
-Was nicer to hold.
-Android 7.0
-Higher resolution screen was a little nicer for VR.
-Used to have front facing stereo speakers.
Pros:
-Tripled battery life.
-Fingerprint reader.
-Style mods.
-Smaller screen (I have big hands and the N6 was still a touch too big)
-Dual tone flash.
-Front facing flash.
-No strange colour cast when the screen is dimmed.
-More responsive camera
Performance is sort of an outlier, since I think it's about the same. I think the Nexus 6 may have even been a bit faster.
_jfo_ said:
Lost: RAM and a few steps on the camera quality scale. Dash charging.
Gained: Battery life
I came from a OnePlus 3. The drop in RAM is noticeable. I feel like almost every time I try to multitask and switch back to an app it refreshes on me. Also been very disappointed in the camera quality on the MZP. Battery life (my #1 priority) has made up for those 2 faults though.
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Click to collapse
I just don't understand why people have such an insane amount of apps open, don't you ever close anything? 3gb is pretty much the standard.
_jfo_ said:
Lost: RAM and a few steps on the camera quality scale. Dash charging.
Gained: Battery life
I came from a OnePlus 3. The drop in RAM is noticeable. I feel like almost every time I try to multitask and switch back to an app it refreshes on me. Also been very disappointed in the camera quality on the MZP. Battery life (my #1 priority) has made up for those 2 faults though.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Probably the ram management and how the app is programmed. Like xda doesn't like to stay in ram. Seems it wants to reload 80% of the time when you come back to it.
coolkingler1 said:
I just don't understand why people have such an insane amount of apps open, don't you ever close anything? 3gb is pretty much the standard.
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Click to collapse
Yea, it's insane that this happens when I have 3 or 4 apps running....
Yes, yes, it's possible to love a phone. Heck, you sleep next to it, don't you? Rate this thread to indicate your love for the Xiaomi Mi A3, all things considered. A higher rating indicates that the Xiaomi Mi A3 is an incredible phone that you enjoy tremendously. You love it.
Then, drop a comment if you have anything to add!
I was skeptical and very dismissive of it due to the 720p spec of the display. Yet having it changed my opinion. I placed it next to a 2k LCD and found little difference at a typical daily use distance. I can only see pixelation when viewing very carefully, or using lens.
With that concern out of the way, the 720p display was an excellent choice when it comes to saving battery life. In fact it probably has the longest battery run time of the current crop of xiaomi phones, in large part due to the 720p OLED. With the minute visible difference (I don't understand how people can claim it to be obvious inferior, when to me it clearly isn't), I'm actually willing to take the trade off for better battery life. It is far more vibrant than LCD to boot. Most people I showed it alongside with 1080p LCD on the redmi note7 picked the A3 display, due to color vibrancy.
The camera is excellent. I did side by side comparison with the 64mp gm1 on the redmi note 7. I have to say GM1 did a great job catching up to Sony, but the IMX586 still have the clarity edge at low lights with less noise and clearer RAW images (yup I compared using RAW to take post processing out of the way). However, I can't really say it's a clear winner, as IMX results seem to "smudge" a bit. I'm wondering if by using 48mp marketing gimmick that requires pixel binding was actually a step backwards compared to just straight large-cell 12mp sensor (yet lower MP count sells fewer phones evidently). Nevertheless, no complaints with the cameras. Wide angle and front sensor are both excellent as well. A great phone for selfie lovers, and better than most xiaomi phones except maybe mi9.
Loudspeaker is loud but only above around 800-900hz. So even mids are kinda subdued, and shrieking sounds are pretty loud. Mine buzzes at mid range frequencies which is really annoying. Some built in notifications would result in a buzz at the loudest and 2nd loudest volumes. It's not terribly loud and so the loudest volume is easily required when outdoors or in an urban setting. I think mine's probably defective, as it developed after a few days (past the refund period. :-/) It's not exactly malfunctioning, but annoying nevertheless.
I still love the phone, because of the smaller form factor for true one handed handling. It feels thin and light, yet packs a punch in terms of display colors, battery life, and camera quality. If it can be rooted with AOSP rom, or have native gcam support (I use RMN7's port and it works sans wide angle), it'd be even nicer.
It definitely feels like a better build, with better looks and feel over A2. I think it's a great little package, and if you can get it at a good price, it really is bringing the flagship camera and battery life with clean android to the masses. Something Pixel 3a is trying to do but A3 truly does it better in many ways, not the least its price.
Phone is pretty nice, but it needs some custom rom support. I feel stock is not so optimised as it could be, sometimes it slows down opening apps etc.
Also, max screen brigtness is too low. I didn't pay attention to this while buying it, but anything below 400+ nits is too dim on sunlight.
After using both, Miui and Stock Android, i feel stock is getting overrated. Miui is as fast and packed with features and customization, and Miui's dark mode is way better than google's implemetation.
I personally think Cc9/Mi9 Lite is a better buy although it's cost is a little higher.
Absolutely love this phone, resolution doesn't bother as much as you think it would. My only complain with this phone is vibration motor, but apart from that, it's a fantastic phone (probably the best) in this price range. Biggest loving factors for me are
*Super fast storage (UFS 2.1)
*sAmoled screen
*Build quality and size
*Stock Android
Battery life is super. That's very important for many people
I REALLY recommend that phone, it's amazing for the price... the display is not disappointing as a lot of people say (and anyway, who the F really needs a 1080p display??? what for??? it's not as if the phone was the size of a TV!!!). It's rootable, fast, has a great camera, but doesn't have NFC... In my case, I didn't want it anyway (had it on previous phone, and only used it to show off when reading CC details).
After about two weeks of usage, I really like the phone. Really suits my disabled hands. I wish the screen were a little wider than tall because the extra height doesn't help me so much but extra width would make a lot of things bigger and easier.
I got this for the OLED screen and was not disappointed. Would not trade for a better spec'ed LCD screen. I am all in on OLED. Now do I wish it were 1080 so text would be crisper? Sure. That or a non pentile screen. But for this price, it's not happening at this point in time.
Speed and responsiveness is quite good. It does slow down and lags at time but overall I'm happy with it.
Camera is fine. I don't take pictures much so as long as the pictures I do take aren't embarrassingly bad I'm happy. And I think it's way better than not bad.
Where it falls down is in the audio department. I'm coming from a hand me down iPhone 5 and by comparison the speaker is tinny and kind of painful to listen to. The 3.5mm output isn't great either. I notice a real drop in quality with my grado sr60. I've done the af.resampler.quality tweak too. I'm using an equalizer to make it sound better, but wish they hadn't cut this corner.
Overall, if there's a better OLED phone at this price I don't know about it. I would be willing to pay more to get 1080p and better audio, but not like $150 more after tax like the Mi 9T or Samsung S50. I wish Xiaomi had a phone in the middle. I don't need pop up selfie camera or fancy back. I would be happy with a plastic body and have the money go inside the phone. Lighter to boot.
I love u
still loving it. Audio recorder should be available in the next update.
I love my A3 too. Battery life is insane, sadly i find the Finger Unlock sensor very very slow. It takes so long to unlock that i always using a Pin number instead to be faster. :crying:
I love it. Just got mine a week ago and I really like it. Certainly reminds me of Nexus in many ways. A lot better than MIUI iny opinion. Used Redmi 4X before.
Sent from my Mi A3 using Tapatalk
AGM G2 Guardian5G Unlocked Rugged Smartphone | Thermal Monocular Long Detection Range: 500m/yd
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Main Features
* Qualcomm QCM6490
* Long Range Thermal Monocular
* 6.58' FHD+ 120Hz Display
* 108MP Rear Camera
* 7000 mAh Battery
* Waterproof, shock and dust proof. Certified IP68/IP69K/MIL-STD-810H
* 109dB Loud Speaker
* 8/12GB + 256GB Storage
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Source: AGM Mobile Website
Stay tuned for further Information
5G
Band: n1, n2, n3, n5, n7, n8, n28, n41, n66,n71, n77, n78,n79
NSA: Support, Option 3x/3a
SA: Support, Option 2
MIMO: n1/n2/n3/n7/n66/n77/n78/n79 Four Downstream, Single Upstream, n41 Four Downstream, Dual Upstream
SRS
SA SRS: n41:2T4R，n77/n78/n79：1T4R NSA SRS：n41/n77/n78/n79 1T4R
HPUE: n41/n78/N79： Total Power 26dBm
EN_DC
CA
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
ChipsetChipset: Qualcomm QCM6490
CPU: Kryo 670
GPU: Adreno 643
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
StorageCapacity: UFS2.2, 8G+256G & 12G+256G
Expandable Storage (TF Card):Support , 512G
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
ScreenSize: 6.58'
Resolution: FHD+
Refreshing Rate: 120HZ
Cameras
Pixels
108MP Rear Camera
20MP Infrared night vision Camera
2MP Macro Camera
256*192 Thermal Camera (10mm lens)
sensor: TBD
Flashlight: Support
Front Camera
Pixels: 32M
sensor
Sound
MIC: Dual-mic
PA: 3.5W Speaker
Stereo: Not Support
Motor: Support
Speaker Effect: Default algorithm
Headphone Effect: No
Speaker: AGM Iconic Speaker
Direction: Back
WLAN agreement: 802.11a/b/g/n/ac/ax
Battery
capacity: 7000mAh
installation method: built-in
Fast Charging: Support, 18W
Dock Charging: Support
Durability requirements
Operating temperature: -20°C~60°C
Degree of protection: IP68/IP69K/810H
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I pre-ordered the G2 Guardian and received it 4 days ago. I charged it to 100% when I received it and have not since charged it again...4 entire days of pretty heavy usage, still I have 30% battery. Just about to fill the MicroSD up with music. Hopefully by the time it's fully charged again my battery usage metrics will be calibrated and I can work on some proper usage figures for everyone.
Why did I make this purchase/ My use case:
I work in forestry in Northern Australia. It's sweaty as hell, storms develop quickly and whatever I use will get wet multiple times per week through one or the other. Overall I look after my gear with great care, but some things are unavoidable: water, dust, plant matter slowly filling all of my pockets and getting into my gear through whatever orifice is available. Much like Eels, it finds an entrance where it can. I spend much of my week smashing around in the undergrowth. Being able to wash my devices periodically is important, good quality port covers are equally important.
Another must-have for me is a battery that won't let me down. If I manage to hike to the furthest point from my vehicle within a given parcel of land then it's a major problem for me if my battery runs out and I lose the GPS track that I am running, or cannot collect the remainder of my data taking a different path back to my vehicle. My time is wasted, my sweat and exertion are wasted and I've got to climb a bunch of 35+ degree slopes back to the car for no gain. For this reason, the company iphone and ipad are in the bin where they belong. Both devices constantly let me down one way or another, neither of them are designed to do what I do, even in a lifeproof case.
To solve these issues, I ran the Ulefone Power Armor 13 for over a year. It was a great device, I customised the hell out of it but eventually I got tired of carrying a 498gram brick in my pocket. At home without a belt, it would pull my pants down. It was JUST fast enough not to annoy me, and I really enjoyed how deeply I had customised it but I became annoyed with how poor the camera could be sometimes, and with just how heavy it was, but moreso how cumbersome the form factor was and how cheap it looked and felt.
In a flash of brilliance, I replaced the Power Armor 13 with a Galaxy Xcover 6 pro. Paid outright for the device, bought a couple of spare batteries and rubber port covers for the 3.5mm and USB-C ports, and patted myself on the back for being the smartest man alive. The extra speed of the Snapdragon 778G was just what I had been looking for, the retention of an IP68 rating even with a replaceable battery and the moderately rugged construction seemed to be more than enough for my workday, and I could much more easily slip this thing into the pocket of my jeans before heading to the bar on the weekend. No more laughter when producing my phone from my pocket, no more having to explain how I could possibly need a half kilogram phone...I just looked like a normal person, with a normal life.
It lasted 2 months. I got caught in a storm, the Xcover 6 pro was in my backpack. That IP rating is not worth the paper it is written on. Not only did it fail spectacularly, I'm pretty sure it almost caught fire doing so. It got indescribably hot to the point that I knew it was absolutely dead. No amount of time spent in bags of rice would resurrect it, and after a last ditch effort trying to dry it out in direct sunlight I could see that constant exposure to heavy sweat during my work had also managed to penetrate whatever miserable water ingress protection it had. There were literal salt crystals falling out from near the battery terminals: this thing had been getting moisture past the rubber gasket whilst in my pocket for the entire 2 months I'd owned it.
At this point, Samsung can go and boil their bums. I had been a militant supporter of their Galaxy Active lineup, simply unable to understand why anyone would choose their regular lineup when the Active line existed. Once they dropped the Active I had to look elsewhere, but I was over the moon to see that they had done an xcover device that wasn't completely and utterly under powered so I caved. Fool me once... they're dead to me, and so is the possibility of me owning a 'normal' phone. It's just not going to work for me.
After drying my tears I set about scouting out a new rugged phone that would meet all of my needs without pulling my pants down. I have also recently had to start doing koala spotting again, and even though we have a $2400 thermal scope available at my office, there is only 1. I can't carry it with me all the time in case somebody else needs it, and to be perfectly honest I've found it pretty inadequate once the sun rises. Once there's sunlight on the trees it's pretty much useless, and having to peer through a monocular makes it dangerous walking through the bush. The hardware specs of the scope are so low that it is ridiculously clunky to use, and it is endlessly refreshing the sensor. I wasn't happy with it, and I always had to drive back and get it, so the presence of a thermal camera on my everyday phone became appealing. Imagine my joy when I got home to find that pre-orders for the AGM G2 guardian were just about to start. BOLD claims in the promo literature, but I decided to roll the dice.
Initial impressions of the AGM G2 Guardian after 4 days:
I had some serious trepidation about this purchase. I know that AGM have been around for 14 years or so, and I have come really close to buying several of their devices over the years. The AGM X3 was right up my alley, but for $1000USD in 2019, it was a much easier choice to grab a second hand S8 Active for a few hundred bucks.
The purchase experience through AGM's official eBay store felt sketchy. They shipped me an AU power adapter on the day I pre-ordered, marking the device as shipped. Once the adapter was delivered my buyer protection started counting down. Honestly, in spite of their constant assurances I felt like I was about to get scammed especially since I got it for such a comparatively low price as a pre-order.
I was also nervous about the price I had paid for a rugged phone made in Shenzen. Even though AGM have always positioned themselves as the premium offering in this space, often choosing absolute top of the line Snapdragon SOC's rather than poxy mediatek chips, and having a European design team for their entire range it still seemed like an awful lot of money given the competition.
As soon as I held the G2 Guardian in my hands the reason for the additional price tag compared with the competition became obvious. Even before I turned it on this thing felt TIGHT. Not a rattle in sight, and whilst the 400 grams is still very heavy for a phone, it carries the weight well and manages to feel extremely high quality, reliable and a little bit sexy all at the same time. I'm not sure how to describe this, because it's only 98 grams lighter than my Power Armor was, but I barely notice this thing in my pocket. It feels great to hold and even though I acknowledge that I am part of a very small and very weird group of customers...I think it looks cool as hell and the ergonomics are great. Everything is where you want it to be including the fingerprint sensor. Every time I pull it out of my pocket, I get that nugget feeling. It feels built to last and extremely high quality.
Once I powered it up and started going through the setup process I really started smiling. The first thing that really brought home that nugget feeling was the quality of the haptic feedback. I assume a decent quality motor combined with just how solid the body of the device is has given a fairly nice result here.
Overall an absolute 10/10 for satisfaction on the physical characteristics of this device.
Chipset
Qualcomm QCM 6490 industrial processor.
2.7Ghz, 8 cores, 6nm process. 5G, Wifi6/6E. 8 or 12GB ram.
There's not much to say here. This thing absolutely flies, and sips battery whilst it's doing it. It's faster than the competing 778G by a decent margin and has far better multithreaded performance. It also destroys even the best Mediatek Dimensity chipsets in competing rugged phones clocking in at just under 600,000 Antutu score in V9. No, it's not as fast as a snapdragon 8 Gen1, but it also won't get overly hot or need a purpose built animation to see your battery empty whilst playing games or doing demanding processing.
Display
120hz refresh rate (though I have to assume it is adaptive given the battery life and lack of manual setup options) and a very tasty 2408x1080 400ppi results in a fast, flowy and vibrant display. Let me be clear, this absolutely bashes the pants off my previous 2 phones, but I have to assume it wouldn't be in the ballpark of the latest S23 or anything like that in terms of image quality. The 120hz display is a massive bonus here, and a great implementation. I've never seen this thing lag or skip. It's a really rewarding user experience that looks and feels great and is always buttery smooth. AGM have not provided customisation options here. There's no ability to lock it to 60hz or change the resolution. Ordinarily I wouldn't be happy with this, but given the battery life and quality of experience it seems like they've dialed it in exactly where it needs to be.
Cameras
The main camera is a 108mp Samsung lens. Obviously this lens is extremely capable of taking good photos. Plenty of depth and colour, and it is extremely fast. Unfortunately the combination of a lack of image stabilization and a very basic camera app implementation lead to a lot of dud photos unless you get lucky with the natural lighting conditions being absolutely perfect. I find myself having to take 5 or 6 photos of the same scene or subject to guarantee 1 good shot. It is really reliable up-close on stationary objects, and in this use-case it seems to thrive, producing consistently good images.
There is work to do here for AGM. At present, this high-quality and perfectly capable lens is going to waste a lot of the time because the camera app is so basic. You can tell that the hardware is infinitely capable, but it is absolutely screaming for a port of GCAM or a LOT of development on their in-house app. I don't think it even has HDR at present and configuration options are extremely limited.
Front camera is a 32mp unit that provides a really smooth video calling experience, quality is good. Not sure how good it is at selfies because selfies are for children.
There's also a 20MP Sony night-vision camera. This works well, and I believe it is activated by choosing 'infrared detect' in the camera app and probably plays some role in the thermal function I guess (?).
Finally, the last 'normal' camera is a 2MP Macro Camera. This works really well for Macro shots but I have to wonder what kind of insanity led to the inclusion of a macro lens rather than a decent wide-angle sensor in an outdoor focused device. 90% of my photos on my last few phones have been taken with the wide-angle sensor and it is going to take some serious getting used to not having one. Obviously I knew this before purchase, but I miss my wide-angle lenses already.
Thermal Module
Here is the big daddy, and obviously the focal point of this device. A 10mm lens paired with 256x192 thermal image resolution and 25hz video resolution.
AGM have knocked this out of the park. With zero exaggeration, this is the best thermal scope I have ever used. I have used devices with higher thermal detector resolution (384 x 288), but even in devices that cost over $2200AUD, these sensors are paired with absolute garbage processing power. This leaves you with a really clunky user experience. These specialist devices are also often plagued with really terrible battery life, and having to hold it up to your eye is downright dangerous given the understory you are more than likely walking through if you have a use for such a device.
Combining a decent sensor and a 10mm lens with the very respectable hardware at the heart of the G2 Guardian eliminates all of the problems inherent to a standalone thermal monocular. They say the best camera is the one you have with you, and this applies double to thermal scopes. To ALWAYS have this thing available in my pocket is a massive advantage.
Thermal Range (Detection Range VS Recognition Range) and performance
I was pretty dubious of the claims made by AGM here. Well, I was wrong. At night, there is a very comfortable recognition range of around 100 to 200 metres depending on the size of the animal, and a detection range (how far out you can actually identify a heat signature is present) well over 500 metres, again, depending on the size of the object.
The thermal app interface is fast and responsive, and there is an entire galaxy of configuration options including the ability to set up your own custom thermal ribbon colour modes to suit your use. The timelapse function will be awesome for monitoring wildlife, and the analysis tools are crazy good. Both auto-focus and manual focus modes are brilliant, and I find myself wishing they had put a similar amount of effort into the main camera app.
Temperature measurement range is disappointing in the Guardian variant which I believe is only capable of 0C to 150C with accuracy. I believe this was a necessary compromise to allow such an amazing long range thermal camera experience. The G2 Pro variant does not have such impressive long-range thermal capability, but has accurate temperature measurement between -20C to 550C. This was an easy choice for me, it's far more useful for me to be able to detect an animal or heat signature at long range, than to tell the exact temperature of that object up close.
I have had a FLIR sensor previously on the very first CAT phone, and it was not even in the same universe of what the G2 Guardian is capable of. Hands down, this is the best bit of thermal gear I've ever used and I have access to several very expensive standalone units - the implementation on the G2 Guardian is genuinely impressive. They have made the jump from what is a cool gimmick on most phones, to a genuine work or hunting tool. I am blown away here.
The most impressive feature of the thermal experience is how well it works in daylight conditions. Many extremely expensive scopes are completely useless in daylight. As soon as sunlight starts to hit tree trunks, it's time to give up and go home. I'm not exactly sure how AGM have overcome this challenge, and obviously it will always work better at night or in the early morning, but even at 10am in full sun I have been able to ID animals very easily.
Firmware and customization potential
The Android implementation here is completely and utterly bloat free. The only non-google apps AGM have installed is their camera app, their thermal camera app and the AGM service app, where you can input the particulars of your device and purchase date, and submit a help or service request. There is also a third party launcher, but I never touched it - I installed Lynx launcher from my google backup before I even made it to the homescreen...i know what I like at this point.
The remainder of the UI experience is practically untouched, sharing most similarities to the latest Pixel devices including some of the fancier features including the ability to screenshot beyond the current display area of a web site, the juicy larger sized quick settings menu, extra dim mode, bedtime routines etc etc. There are extra settings menus present for the user defined key (though very basic, can't even set a vibration
I have to commend AGM here for providing such a beautiful stock android experience and not going ham with some janky over zealous skin.
Whilst I have not unlocked the bootloader or rooted this device, I have verified that flicking the OEM Unlocking switch in developer options does have the desired result, and that you are able to gain access to the bootloader via ADB reboot bootloader. This is good news for the future, with many devices from mainstream manufacturers now shipping without even the ability to access the bootloader.
It seems like there is potential here, but at present I do not have a reason to proceed any further down this path. Time will tell how well AGM support these devices long term with incremental updates but so far all they have promised is that they will provide regular Android security updates, and that their camera and thermal apps will be developed on an ongoing basis. I would not be surprised if we never see Android 13 or 14 here, but I could be wrong.
It would be a massive roll of the dice to flash a GSI or custom rom here given the amount of device specific, niche hardware. In all likelyhood, unless AGM decide to expend the resources to support this type of development in-house (and why would they?), any attempt to install a non-factory rom will result in the loss of your thermal camera, infrared camera and probably the sick flashlight as well.
At some point in the future I may attempt to root this phone but for now most of the reasons I have for doing so have already been solved in-house.
The battery optimisation and power management is absolutely killer and unobtrusive, giving an outstanding result for daily use. All of the bluetooth codecs you could possibly want are there including APT-X, APT-X HD, LDAC, AAC - so i've no need to force these in via magisk modules.
Activating the amazingly handy 100 lumen flashlight on the top of the phone via hardware key on the side is a default feature...this is one of the big reasons I usually root my phones. If they would add haptic feedback when it's activated, I'm happy and probably won't root at all.
Connectivity
3G and 4G signal reception on this device is better than anything I've owned previously. I was sweating bullets about VoLTE and VoWifi working on this out of the box because I have been completely reliant on wifi calling at home on all my other phones, which generally only manage 1 bar of cellular signal at best.
The great news is that VoLTE and VoWifi did work immediately out of the box, but given that I now have consistently better coverage with the G2 I'm less reliant on it. When it does kick in, it seems to do so seamlessly. All I could really ask for here is clear visible delineation between Wifi calls and HD voice/ VoLTE calls.
Wifi reception is also very good with very little degradation even at considerable distance from my router. Unfortunately I do not have access to 5G or Wifi6 to truly test it. On the previous 5ghz wifi standard it is easily able to hand me the full capacity of my starlink connection. Overall I feel like they really prioritized antenna location and design in this device. All of the other features are cool, but first and foremost this is a GREAT phone.
Tiny touches
AGM G2 Guardian is one of those cases where the whole is greater than the sum of its parts. I assumed the 3.5watt speaker on the rear would be a gimmick...wow. This little speaker is worth its bulge. It's loud, clear and gives even the simple act of unlocking the device some serious presence. For podcast listening when I'm out in the shed or out in the bush and don't want to risk headphones masking the early warning signs of any slithery surprises it is absolutely fantastic. For music, I own several small bluetooth speakers that do not have this quality or volume. They have tuned the output in such a way that even at max volume there is no distortion, it's just loud and clear. I thought being on the rear of the device would be a disadvantage but they've overcome this with pure power.
The torch is one of my favourite features. I'm a total torch nerd but this is one less thing that I have to worry about having on my person, and the output is more than enough for most simple tasks at night. To have this with me at all times is a huge boon, and it is a million times better than even the brightest LED flash style flashlight on most phones, and emits from the top so is much more usable.
Bluetooth implementation here is INCREDIBLE. Stability of all bluetooth codecs has been fantastic, with no skipping and fantastic range. Even on my tiny earbuds, I am able to walk to the other end of my house with no skips or disconnects. This is about 25 metres. For comparison, my xcover 6 pro would constantly skip just from facing the wrong way in my pocket, and would give me about 10 metres unobstructed in the house. That's some serious power from the AGM, and decent thought put in to location of the antennas.
Best of all, when connecting any bluetooth audio device, a quick popup appears to inform you which codec is active! This is such a great little touch that saves me jumping through 3 layers of developer options to ensure that I am actually using the codec I want when my headphones connect.
A labour of love
In one of their recent long-form videos on youtube, an AGM representative claims the Bill of Materials cost for parts and labour to bring the G2 Guardian to completion is $740USD owing mainly to the expense of the thermal module.
If this is true, this leaves AGM with a very slim profit margin on this device. It seems their motivation here is purely to grow their brand, get more AGM devices into the hands of users in this small segment of the market and really make a great device to be proud of. You can feel it.
If you have ever considered a rugged device, or are sick of destroying your expensive mainstream ones this may well be the halo product you have been waiting for. The attention to detail here is hard to put into words until you've used one for a few days.
Concerns
-Even the large RAM X-Grip can only just hold this device in a vehicle owing to the bulge on the rear. It is secure in there, but only just. If AGM were to release a purpose built vehicle mount for these, I'd absolutely buy one.
-AGM Specs on their website still claim 10W wireless charging even now. It appears that either A) this is a lie B) it uses some non-standard wireless charging standard or C) They are claiming their dock accessory as wireless charging which I suppose would technically be true...but I have not yet received my dock and seems a bit disingenuous
It turns out there is wireless charging present, it's just very difficult getting it to pick up given the shape of the rear and the thickness of the case. Presently charging at 10W after some very careful balancing. I eagerly await the charging dock!
-Thermal module is fairly exposed and picks up every smudge imagineable. This does not impact use, and I do not have any scratches yet. AGM claim hardness of this glass is very high, but I can't think of a way to protect this lens when it is not in use.
-Main camera software needs some help. As detailed previously, you can get great photos out of this hardware combo, but it doesn't happen often enough. Maybe the in-house team can pull something together, but I can't help but think it would be a better outcome to get a port of GCAM running well, and enjoy all of the software processing and HDR trickery that comes with it. I may start having a mess around here myself.
That's about it. 99% of people won't read my wall of text, but for those seriously considering this purchase I hope this goes some way to helping you make your decision.
I have used rugged devices from every major player in this space. This is by far the best experience I've had with any of them. This phone absolutely slaps.
Camera samples attached with some compression from google photos.
Daylight closeup outdoors under cover
Daylight outdoors closeup subject
Daylight indoors close-up
Daylight sneaking distance, medium size eastern grey kangaroo
Outdoors 9am daylight photography sample
Night. Termite mound in foreground. Cow approx 60m away
Night. Small kangaroo @ 70-75m
Your browser is not able to display this video.
Alright I'm off to the races.
Shamim's Gcam port opens and appears to take photos, doesn't lag. It's night here right now, but this is where I will be starting my customisation journey.
Shamim: SGCAM_8.7.250.XX.44_STABLE_V4FIX
Download SGCAM_8.7.250.XX.44_STABLE_V4FIX by Shamim.
www.celsoazevedo.com
Have you got the gcam port working? And if so how is image quality?
davecotefilm said:
Have you got the gcam port working? And if so how is image quality?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yes it's working and very stable with both main camera and front camera stills + video all good.
Image quality is great but I need to figure out how to make a config file for this device, never done one before. HDR is a little too extreme on both HDR modes.
I'll put a couple of comparison images together over the weekend. That link I posted is a great base to start building from, and stability seems to be zero issues so this is already a win.
I did some up-close shots and GCAM really made them pop. Landscape stuff looking a little alien with HDR effect at present.
Anyone got a good resource for getting started with GCAM config? Seems like the hardware is fully compatible with this build so shouldn't be too many barriers.
Okay yes I'm thinking this will be my next phone :-D Just need price to drop a bit!
bandario said:
Yes it's working and very stable with both main camera and front camera stills + video all good.
Image quality is great but I need to figure out how to make a config file for this device, never done one before. HDR is a little too extreme on both HDR modes.
I'll put a couple of comparison images together over the weekend. That link I posted is a great base to start building from, and stability seems to be zero issues so this is already a win.
I did some up-close shots and GCAM really made them pop. Landscape stuff looking a little alien with HDR effect at present.
Anyone got a good resource for getting started with GCAM config? Seems like the hardware is fully compatible with this build so shouldn't be too many barriers.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I'll try to get into the configs, but does gcam give it any image stabilization?
bandario said:
Yes it's working and very stable with both main camera and front camera stills + video all good.
Image quality is great but I need to figure out how to make a config file for this device, never done one before. HDR is a little too extreme on both HDR modes.
I'll put a couple of comparison images together over the weekend. That link I posted is a great base to start building from, and stability seems to be zero issues so this is already a win.
I did some up-close shots and GCAM really made them pop. Landscape stuff looking a little alien with HDR effect at present.
Anyone got a good resource for getting started with GCAM config? Seems like the hardware is fully compatible with this build so shouldn't be too many barriers.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Okay awesome, I'll get it as my next device and follow this thread I suggest contacting the dev from the gcam link, he can help with configs if he can ask you for files etc. Then once built just attach the apk here!
I installed "SGCAM_8.7.250.XX.44_STABLE_V5_ENG_PACKAGE" on G2 Guardian and it is working fine on the main camera and the front camera and has software based image stabilization option. However, I don't see any option for Night vision and macro cameras. May be proper config is required.
bandario said:
Yes it's working and very stable with both main camera and front camera stills + video all good.
Image quality is great but I need to figure out how to make a config file for this device, never done one before. HDR is a little too extreme on both HDR modes.
I'll put a couple of comparison images together over the weekend. That link I posted is a great base to start building from, and stability seems to be zero issues so this is already a win.
I did some up-close shots and GCAM really made them pop. Landscape stuff looking a little alien with HDR effect at present.
Anyone got a good resource for getting started with GCAM config? Seems like the hardware is fully compatible with this build so shouldn't be too many barriers.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Thank you for the review and mentioning of GCAM software. I installed it and It has many more options then the stock AGM G2 Guardian app. Thanks
vicki20july said:
I installed "SGCAM_8.7.250.XX.44_STABLE_V5_ENG_PACKAGE" on G2 Guardian and it is working fine on the main camera and the front camera and has software based image stabilization option. However, I don't see any option for Night vision and macro cameras. May be proper config is required.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You never will. It's a small miracle that it works out of the box with main and front cam for stills and video. To get any other lens involved would require huge input from AGM on a non-sanctioned project messing with google code. It won't happen. I'm just grateful they used standard enough hardware calls that we can build from a stable base on main cam.
davecotefilm said:
I'll try to get into the configs, but does gcam give it any image stabilization?
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Click to collapse
Yes, AI image stabilisation standard to GCAM. To be honest I actively avoid phones with hardware OIS because vibrations when mounted to my motorbike kill the mechanism leaving me with a dead camera. I'm super happy to have GCAM fake OIS.
Thinks you for all this informations about agm guardian, I want to buy from ebay agm store, I want to ask you about zoom quality of the main camera? Can you post image and videos with zoom at least x8 or x10
samienemy said:
Thinks you for all this informations about agm guardian, I want to buy from ebay agm store, I want to ask you about zoom quality of the main camera? Can you post image and videos with zoom at least x8 or x10
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Click to collapse
It does not have a telephoto lens. Max zoom is 8X and it looks as bad as you imagine. If this feature is important to you, buy something with a telephoto lens.
GCAM
AGM Stock CAM
It cost over 1200$ I will wait for less price
samienemy said:
It cost over 1200$ I will wait for less price
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Click to collapse
$859USD on Ebay. AGM web shop is wild, changes price if you view it multiple times getting more expensive every time.
bandario said:
It does not have a telephoto lens. Max zoom is 8X and it looks as bad as you imagine. If this feature is important to you, buy something with a telephoto len
bandario said:
It does not have a telephoto lens. Max zoom is 8X and it looks as bad as you imagine. If this feature is important to you, buy something with a telephoto lens.
View attachment 5889529
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
There is an option in SGCAM to increase zoom capability. I am able to get it working up to around 35x
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Click to collapse
To what end? At 8X it already looks like a psychedelic cartoon.